Guild Wars 2

I’m pretty sure I’ll be eaten alive by some people who read only the title and start anything to defend the skill.

In my opinion, this skill is that strong to the point it overshadows both the other heals.
Even if you run a full minion or well builds, picking Blood Fiend or Well of Blood over Consume Conditions is an huge loss over healing capability and condition removals, despite the fact that both WoB and BF aren’t bad skills.

I don’t think that it should be nerfed and forgotten; Necromancers needs that heal.
I think that part of its functionality and heal should be spread among other trait and utilities.

So, my solution is the following:
- Remove the additional healing from Consume Conditions (when a condition is removed). Add 5% life forge gained per condition.
- Make Transfusion heal the caster too (also while in DeathShroud)
- Buff Deathly Invigoration (as I suggested in another topic)
- Reduce the recharge of Signet of Locust (maybe 40s?), make it a single target skill and buff its heal (to ~2k)
- Make Well of Blood remove a condition every 3 seconds

What do you think?

EDIT (before posting, read this):

I’m all up for the change of base heals according to the base health pool of a profession, but looking as it is right now, Consume Conditions is quite a lot over the top.

Since I don’t think ArenaNet will ever balance heals according to the health pool, I think the best thing to do to not put the other heals in the “bad” area is to adjust Consume Conditions to make the other heals more attractive.

sorrow.2364:

What do you think?

Absolutely not.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

Absolutely not.

Any explanation?
It doesn’t help the topic if you don’t explain why you think it is a bad change.

sorrow.2364:

TheAgedGnome.7520:

Absolutely not.

Any explanation?
It doesn’t help the topic if you don’t explain why you think it is a bad change.

Sorry for spaz-replying.

I disagree with the premise of your argument “this skill is that strong to the point it overshadows both the other heals.” To me, Consume Conditions, is as it should be, for self-healing. As such, I do not see a need for CC to be nerfed and therefore none of the other changes are needed. (Ok…Deathly Invigoration could use a boost.)

TheAgedGnome.7520:

Sorry for spaz-replying.

I disagree with the premise of your argument “this skill is that strong to the point it overshadows both the other heals.” To me, Consume Conditions, is as it should be, for self-healing. As such, I do not see a need for CC to be nerfed and therefore none of the other changes are needed. (Ok…Deathly Invigoration could use a boost.)

Try it for yourself.
There is no reasong to pick either Blood Fiend or Well of Blood over Consume Condition in any situation, despite the fact that both those skills are far from weak.

Try to run Minions or Wells and tell me which healing skill you would pick :P

Consume Conditions is pretty much a complete cleanse and heal. It isn’t rare that you get healed for 8k+ HP by that.
There is too much in a single skill that not having it in your bar is a self-nerf, it is essentially an all-in-one healing skill, which is its main issue. It kills build variety that you’re forced to pick Consume Conditions because it is a must in every situation.

CC is the best heal but only in pvp. It’s a testament to the necro’s former-supposed-now-realized status of master of conditions. Would hate to see it changed. It’s a pretty garbage heal in case no conditions are removed, which balances it out just enough.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

CC is the best heal but only in pvp. It’s a testament to the necro’s former-supposed-now-realized status of master of conditions. Would hate to see it changed. It’s a pretty garbage heal in case no conditions are removed, which balances it out just enough.

I proposed to remove only the conditional healing, not the condition removal.

It does overshadow the other heals a bit but I wouldn’t want it explicitly nerfed in favour of making the rest more attractive in comparison, but it does make sense to remove the extra heal based on conditions since it can make it punishing to put conditions on a necro, especially if you aren’t even condition damage based but place some on automatically by procs etc.

I would like to be able to heal while in deathshroud if something like this happens.

no, it’s not OP, it’s fine. if the conditional healing is removed, it would be too weak.
instead of overnerfing it, the other heals should rather get buffed.

Well of Blood’s cooldown is a bit high. and its combo-field could be changed to water.
a cleansed condition every 3 seconds might help, but then it maybe becomes too similar to CC.

Blood fiend’s second skill should be instant. but even with that i guess i still wouldnt pick it because minion.

edit: Lumm, i guess every nec would like to have that to some degree, but the last SotG showed that Anet is still too scared of it.

Its not strong enough to be nerfed. The other heals could be buffed though.

In tPvP i feel that i have to take it in most of my builds, however i dont think any change is needed to this skill.
Withtout the extra healing by consuming conditions, it would heal for 30% of our base health pool. Compare that to direct heals from other proffesions with similar cooldown and u ll see that they can often heal a greater % than 30% of their base life. What i means is that it is the extra healing that makes its effective.

As for using the other heals they could have their place.

In a cleric build i would take WoB provided that there is not too much movement in the fight since it scales very well with HP. If healing power was better as a stat overall for necros (healing while in DS, vampiric traits scale better with HP),then u ’d see WoB being used more often.

The minion is the worst in my opinion…
It works like some signet heals form other professions that have a “heal when u attack” component, but ours is limited by the fact that the minion can die quite easily. If they could survive more, than i could use this heal in the same way that other professions can use their afforementioned signet heals.

TL;DR Consume Conditions is fine as it is. Its the other heals/traits of the class that need to be looked at

why nerfing something only because it is a little bit better ?
buff other heals instead its not that hard to use your brain.

sorrow.2364:

TheAgedGnome.7520:

Sorry for spaz-replying.

I disagree with the premise of your argument “this skill is that strong to the point it overshadows both the other heals.” To me, Consume Conditions, is as it should be, for self-healing. As such, I do not see a need for CC to be nerfed and therefore none of the other changes are needed. (Ok…Deathly Invigoration could use a boost.)

Try it for yourself.
There is no reasong to pick either Blood Fiend or Well of Blood over Consume Condition in any situation, despite the fact that both those skills are far from weak.

Try to run Minions or Wells and tell me which healing skill you would pick :P

Consume Conditions is pretty much a complete cleanse and heal. It isn’t rare that you get healed for 8k+ HP by that.
There is too much in a single skill that not having it in your bar is a self-nerf, it is essentially an all-in-one healing skill, which is its main issue. It kills build variety that you’re forced to pick Consume Conditions because it is a must in every situation.

A 5 minionmancer bunker may take BF over it for one reason (trait where minions transfer conditions from you.

I personally would drop Well of Blood to a 35 second base cooldown if I were ANet, then see where it goes from there (possibly reducing it to 30 if the desired effect was still not obtained, but that might make it too strong). Blood Fiend just needs a survivability buff (perhaps out of combat regen like three of our other minions?)

MMs have really strong passive condi clear so Blood Fiend works really well in those kinds of builds. Well of Blood is better when you want to provide some support for your team, though I’d agree that it could use a slight cooldown reduction. Other than that, I think Consume Conditions is fine. It’s part of what makes the Necro a master of conditions.

jportell.2197:

A 5 minionmancer bunker may take BF over it for one reason (trait where minions transfer conditions from you.

Nope.
Why would you get 1 condition removed every 10s over all conditions removed and huge heal?

Batlav.6318:

why nerfing something only because it is a little bit better ?
buff other heals instead its not that hard to use your brain.

Yeah, why not buff everything until we have an huge power creep?
Perhaps, you should use your brain.

Enferian.2705:

Withtout the extra healing by consuming conditions, it would heal for 30% of our base health pool. Compare that to direct heals from other proffesions with similar cooldown and u ll see that they can often heal a greater % than 30% of their base life. What i means is that it is the extra healing that makes its effective.

This is completely another topic.
I’m all up for the change of base heals according to the base health pool of a profession, but looking as it is right now, Consume Conditions is quite a lot over the top.

Since I don’t think ArenaNet will ever balance heals according to the health pool, I think the best thing to do to not put the other heals in the “bad” area is to adjust Consume Conditions to make the other heals more attractive.

The easiest comparison which comes in my mind right now is Mending of warrior.
Warrior and Necros have the same base HP pool, but, still, Mending heals the same base amount, but with only two conditions removed and no extra healing.

It shouldn’t bypass poison. The well would be better with a slightly lower cd. The minion is unsalvageable.

CC is strong but intrinsic to necro playstyle. We are condition sponges that then use the conditions we have to our advantage. Cases in point is staff#4 (putrid mark), the sigil that absorbs others conditions in passive mode, Lich #5, and offhand dagger transfer. We have a whole metagame above other classes when it comes to conditions. Not surprising we can eat them for dinner when we want too.

sorrow.2364:

The easiest comparison which comes in my mind right now is Mending of warrior.
Warrior and Necros have the same base HP pool, but, still, Mending heals the same base amount, but with only two conditions removed and no extra healing.

Each profession gets heal skills that complement their strengths. The Necro is supposed to be the undisputed master of condition control, which means they get better access to condi clear than most professions. It isn’t that Consume Conditions is overpowered, it’s that it’s a crucial component in helping the Necro fill its niche.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Each profession gets heal skills that complement their strengths. The Necro is supposed to be the undisputed master of condition control, which means they get better access to condi clear than most professions. It isn’t that Consume Conditions is overpowered, it’s that it’s a crucial component in helping the Necro fill its niche.

This explains the condition cleansing, which I’ve already said it is fine in my opinion.
What about the extra heal, though?

sorrow.2364:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Each profession gets heal skills that complement their strengths. The Necro is supposed to be the undisputed master of condition control, which means they get better access to condi clear than most professions. It isn’t that Consume Conditions is overpowered, it’s that it’s a crucial component in helping the Necro fill its niche.

This explains the condition cleansing, which I’ve already said it is fine in my opinion.
What about the extra heal, though?

The Necro is master of condition CONTROL, not just condi clearing. Because they have so many skills that can transfer conditions, the extra heal is necessary to give the Necro a choice between popping 6 to clear them and popping, for example, Staff 4 to transfer them. If Consume Conditions just cleared the condis, then the Necro would strictly be making a mistake using his heal to clear them unless all other forms of transfer were down. By empowering his heal when clearing condis with it, you not only make the Necro the undisputed master of condi control but you also create tension between various skills in the Necro’s kit, creating skill ceiling.

Blaine Tog.8304:

The Necro is master of condition CONTROL, not just condi clearing. Because they have so many skills that can transfer conditions, the extra heal is necessary to give the Necro a choice between popping 6 to clear them and popping, for example, Staff 4 to transfer them. If Consume Conditions just cleared the condis, then the Necro would strictly be making a mistake using his heal to clear them unless all other forms of transfer were down. By empowering his heal when clearing condis with it, you not only make the Necro the undisputed master of condi control but you also create tension between various skills in the Necro’s kit, creating skill ceiling.

Still does not explain why the heal is that huge.
It should give another bonus over raw healing, like converting them into boons or giving life force instead (which actually makes more sense).

All 3 heals have their place. Consume Conditions is just the best for most Necros. Blood Fiend is only usable with full Minion builds, and WoB is the best choice for bunker Necro. WoB is also a great choice for PvE.

Copenhagen.7015:

All 3 heals have their place. Consume Conditions is just the best for most Necros. Blood Fiend is only usable with full Minion builds, and WoB is the best choice for bunker Necro. WoB is also a great choice for PvE.

This isn’t exactly true.
As I’ve said, both Minion Necros and bunker Necros will choose Consume Conditions over WoB and BF any day because how strong it is.

Extra heal for each condi its a little low, I’d like to see it buffed.
Particularly when you have the largest heal pool in the game.

I used the Blood Fiend while leveling, was fun
I use the Well for WvW support, it does well
I use Consume for everything else

If anything buff the others i don’t care i’ll still use each where they’re best, but Consume is not too strong, it’s just right.

sorrow.2364:

Still does not explain why the heal is that huge.

The heal amount has to compete with the opportunity cost of transferring the conditions, so it has to be pretty substantial. Were it not, using Consume Condition for the extra heal would be a noob trap.

sorrow.2364:

It should give another bonus over raw healing, like converting them into boons or giving life force instead (which actually makes more sense).

Boons isn’t a very necro way of doing things. Life Force wouldn’t be a terrible idea, but health is still better.

A) It would make the choice tree a bit too complicated. Am I low on health? If yes, Consume Condition, if no, transfer. Switching it to Life Force would add an extra step to this chain, making the skill floor higher. A high skill ceiling is good, but the skill floor (or “barrier to entry”) should be kept as low as possible.

B) If you have conditions on you, you’re probably not at full health, so gaining extra healing is likely beneficial whereas your amount of Life Force doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with your current conditions.

C) The Necro already has sustain problems, even with Consume Conditions being the way it is. Taking off the heal when the skill isn’t causing any problems as it stands would only exacerbate that problem.

Consume Conditions is a great heal skill. It gives good options (but not too many), supports the Necro’s niche, heals for a good amount, has a decent cooldown, and just overall feels really great to use. If anything, every heal skill in the game should be balanced similarly to Consume Condition.

sorrow.2364:

This is completely another topic.
I’m all up for the change of base heals according to the base health pool of a profession, but looking as it is right now, Consume Conditions is quite a lot over the top.

U missed my point…
I m actually saying what u said in another thread:

sorrow.2364:

Heals are effective, yes, but they are balanced around the higher health pool of Necromancers.
Take for instance a Guardian. His main heals are way more effective, despite the fact that they don’t remove conditions. Why? Because Guardian has lower health pool but with way more ways to defend their HP.

Direct heals of other proffesions already are somewhat consistent with their base health pool. They all heal from 35-45% of their base health pool with 20-30 secs cooldown.
The exception is the warrior as u said, but with your argument i d come to think that their heal needs a buff, not that CC needs a nerf. But i know nothing about warriors so….

sorrow.2364:

As I’ve said, both Minion Necros and bunker Necros will choose Consume Conditions over WoB and BF any day because how strong it is.

This may be true for tPvP where there are many conditions and where CC really shines.
In PvE/WvW however things can be different. And there are already many people who said that they use WoB and BM in certain cases, myself included.

Finally i dont see why u think that CC needs a nerf… in all this time playing GW2 i ve never seen anyone of any proffesion think that necros have too much healing or are very durable.

Thing to note is if you have conditions like a fair amount of bleed stacks and burning on you the cast time on consume causes the bonus heal to not make up for the hp lost while casting. Unless you have loads of non damaging conditions on you at the same time. Its really not as strong as people make it out to be with its cast time.

Its fine.

15char.

Consume Conditions is balanced to the health pool. Its not overpowered at all. In fact I would make it a corruption skill to make it get the -20%.

Necromancers are fine. People need to relax.

Enferian.2705:

This may be true for tPvP where there are many conditions and where CC really shines.
In PvE/WvW however things can be different. And there are already many people who said that they use WoB and BM in certain cases, myself included.

Finally i dont see why u think that CC needs a nerf… in all this time playing GW2 i ve never seen anyone of any proffesion think that necros have too much healing or are very durable.

I don’t think it needs a nerf and nothing else.

I wanted just to point out an issue, which is that Consume Conditions overshadows any other heal of the Necromancer.

That issue can be resolved in many ways. Since ArenaNet seems to not be favourable with an overall increase of heals, I proposed a solution which can solve the issue without buffing other heals.

Of course the best case is Necromancers having better healing capabilities accoding to their higher health pool, but it has been proposed several times and never got enough attention, leading to the conclusion that it won’t happen.

I don’t like being forced to pick Consume Condition over any other heal, it kills the profession variety and, also, the fun.
It is an issue and has to be solved somehow.

I think I’ve officially seen the most ridiculous of all the necro OP threads this week. Maybe that’s not true – “Putrid Mark is OP” from the sPvP forums yesterday was bad.

Consume conditions is not too strong and does not overshadow the other heals. The three of them do different things, and are better than one another in different contexts.

sas.6483:

Consume conditions is not too strong and does not overshadow the other heals. The three of them do different things, and are better than one another in different contexts.

Tell me last time you’ve seen any competitive necro not running consume conditions.
I’d like to have proofs too.

If it is such an issue how come nearly everyone in this thread is against changing it, how come when people have explained scenarios where Necros choose the other heals you say “No one uses those” it just doesn’t make any sense, you’re not listening to reason.

Sorry to sound harsh friend but seriously come off your cloud bro.

Tobbygnome.6793:

If it is such an issue how come nearly everyone in this thread is against changing it, how come when people have explained scenarios where Necros choose the other heals you say “No one uses those” it just doesn’t make any sense, you’re not listening to reason.

Sorry to sound harsh friend but seriously come off your cloud bro.

Those scenarios listed are hypothetical and never happeing. In high-level PvE everyone is taking Consume Conditions. In high-level PvP everyone is taking Consume Conditions.

Who cares if in random casual PvE someone might be using Blood Fiend or Well of Blood? You can even complete the whole story without offhand weapon, if you want to.

The fact that any Necro is against changing it was expected, nobody wants to give up on the best heal of the Necromancer.

sorrow.2364:

sas.6483:

Consume conditions is not too strong and does not overshadow the other heals. The three of them do different things, and are better than one another in different contexts.

Tell me last time you’ve seen any competitive necro not running consume conditions.
I’d like to have proofs too.

I’m top 1k was 615 which is relatively okay, and I run blood fiend on my mm build. But the sacrifice is pitiful. The sustain is why I run it

sorrow.2364:

Tobbygnome.6793:

If it is such an issue how come nearly everyone in this thread is against changing it, how come when people have explained scenarios where Necros choose the other heals you say “No one uses those” it just doesn’t make any sense, you’re not listening to reason.

Sorry to sound harsh friend but seriously come off your cloud bro.

Those scenarios listed are hypothetical and never happeing. In high-level PvE everyone is taking Consume Conditions. In high-level PvP everyone is taking Consume Conditions.

Who cares if in random casual PvE someone might be using Blood Fiend or Well of Blood? You can even complete the whole story without offhand weapon, if you want to.

The fact that any Necro is against changing it was expected, nobody wants to give up on the best heal of the Necromancer.

The simple reason is for everyone taking consume in high level is because even though the minion heal is pretty decent, minion builds are bad. The well is good but condi cleanse is very important in pvp so its needed much more than a slightly higher heal. If you nerf consume, necro’s will be even worse for survivability…. We need it and its not even as strong as it should be in my opinion.

Having said that Id like to see a lifeforce focused heal. Similar to healing surge on the warrior? Or maybe it passively restores lifeforce while in/out DS.

sorrow.2364:

Tobbygnome.6793:

If it is such an issue how come nearly everyone in this thread is against changing it, how come when people have explained scenarios where Necros choose the other heals you say “No one uses those” it just doesn’t make any sense, you’re not listening to reason.

Sorry to sound harsh friend but seriously come off your cloud bro.

Those scenarios listed are hypothetical and never happeing. In high-level PvE everyone is taking Consume Conditions. In high-level PvP everyone is taking Consume Conditions.

Who cares if in random casual PvE someone might be using Blood Fiend or Well of Blood? You can even complete the whole story without offhand weapon, if you want to.

The fact that any Necro is against changing it was expected, nobody wants to give up on the best heal of the Necromancer.

No mate, they’re not hypothetical, Well of Blood is extremely good support for WvW zergs and group fights, Blood Fiend is exceptional for leveling, they have their uses set in stone, you are not the meta king of all Necros.

The fact people are against something does not in any form justify changing it, that’s very silly of you to say, if i said “We should nerf the crap out of staff it’s toooooo useful” and people said “No it’s fine how it is” that does not mean i am right!! geez \o/

sorrow.2364:

The fact that any Necro is against changing it was expected, nobody wants to give up on the best heal of the Necromancer.

Consume Conditions is pretty much always useful, whereas Blood Fiend and Well of Blood are niche. This doesn’t mean Consume Conditions needs to be nerfed, if anything it means Blood Fiend and Well of Blood need to be made better at performing their niche duty.

You know WoB heals for way more and that Consume is the only viable non target dependant cleanse… right?

Well i agree with some others who said that problem is other heals and not CC, i wont even start on why BF isnt good but WoBs problem is its cooldown, its good heal on its own and very good heal if you take Ritual Protection trait but its no way so good to be on 40 sec CD, 25 sec max.

Tobbygnome.6793:

No mate, they’re not hypothetical, Well of Blood is extremely good support for WvW zergs and group fights, Blood Fiend is exceptional for leveling, they have their uses set in stone, you are not the meta king of all Necros.

The fact people are against something does not in any form justify changing it, that’s very silly of you to say, if i said “We should nerf the crap out of staff it’s toooooo useful” and people said “No it’s fine how it is” that does not mean i am right!! geez \o/

I’ll say it again.
I’m not up for a straight up nerf.
I’ve just pointed out the issue and proposed a solution. You may argue it doesn’t need a nerf, but saying there isn’t an issue is quite hard to do.

sorrow.2364:

Tobbygnome.6793:

No mate, they’re not hypothetical, Well of Blood is extremely good support for WvW zergs and group fights, Blood Fiend is exceptional for leveling, they have their uses set in stone, you are not the meta king of all Necros.

The fact people are against something does not in any form justify changing it, that’s very silly of you to say, if i said “We should nerf the crap out of staff it’s toooooo useful” and people said “No it’s fine how it is” that does not mean i am right!! geez \o/

I’ll say it again.
I’m not up for a straight up nerf.
I’ve just pointed out the issue and proposed a solution. You may argue it doesn’t need a nerf, but saying there isn’t an issue is quite hard to do.

If they implemented your solution then they would have to up the base heal by quite a bit. Its the other heals which are the problem not Consume conditions.

there isn’t an issue

Tobbygnome.6793:

there isn’t an issue

Then you haven’t played Necromancer enough if you don’t think that either CC is too good or other heals are too bad.

spoj.9672:

If they implemented your solution then they would have to up the base heal by quite a bit. Its the other heals which are the problem not Consume conditions.

Those are two sides of the same coin.
As I’ve said, I think that the best solution is to buff the overall healing capabilities of Necromancer (and warrior too) to compensate for their higher health pool. Then consume conditions will be fine and WoB and BF would be buffed.

But since ArenaNet doesn’t looks inclined to adjust healing based on base health pool, I’ve proposed another solution to the problem.

I’ve played Necro for a year, why is my opinion and reasons behind it as well as everybody elses in this thread not good enough.

As Andele said. Well of blood heals for far more and also heals your team. CC is the only cleanse we have that doesn’t require a target. I’ll add that blood fiend will also heal for more in 25 seconds, and it’s a 6 skill that deals damage.

sorrow.2364:

jportell.2197:

A 5 minionmancer bunker may take BF over it for one reason (trait where minions transfer conditions from you.

Nope.
Why would you get 1 condition removed every 10s over all conditions removed and huge heal?

Batlav.6318:

why nerfing something only because it is a little bit better ?
buff other heals instead its not that hard to use your brain.

Yeah, why not buff everything until we have an huge power creep?
Perhaps, you should use your brain.

Enferian.2705:

Withtout the extra healing by consuming conditions, it would heal for 30% of our base health pool. Compare that to direct heals from other proffesions with similar cooldown and u ll see that they can often heal a greater % than 30% of their base life. What i means is that it is the extra healing that makes its effective.

This is completely another topic.
I’m all up for the change of base heals according to the base health pool of a profession, but looking as it is right now, Consume Conditions is quite a lot over the top.

Since I don’t think ArenaNet will ever balance heals according to the health pool, I think the best thing to do to not put the other heals in the “bad” area is to adjust Consume Conditions to make the other heals more attractive.

The easiest comparison which comes in my mind right now is Mending of warrior.
Warrior and Necros have the same base HP pool, but, still, Mending heals the same base amount, but with only two conditions removed and no extra healing.

Engi gets dhummfire with a 10 point investment.

Rangers get engis endurence rejen GM trait with a 5 point investment.

just how the balance works

sorrow.2364:

Tobbygnome.6793:

there isn’t an issue

Then you haven’t played Necromancer enough if you don’t think that either CC is too good or other heals are too bad.

Sigh, I shouldn’t – but ok, i’m biting.

Sorrow, it’s more like you havn’t played the other professions enough. You seem pretty clueless and should look at other professions ability to sustain and upkeep via heal abilities. Then you should come back and conclude, how consume conditions is OP.

Btw, the Bloodfiend has been buffed and is more then viable as heal for MM builds. Talking PVE, since MM is kinda silly in PvP or WvW. But that is another matter entirely.

I have been playing the game ever since BWE and have about 2k hours on the necromancer. I also play the game in all its aspects so I do believe I have a goo view on how heals work currently.

Well of Blood is absolutely amazing for PvE dungeon running. With a necro spec which gives life steal on well tick, this skill blows any other heal out of the water in a PvE environment. For open world PvE, blood fiend is your best friend, giving you enough sustain to often allow you to not even ever touch its sacrifice spell.

For WvW any of the three can be viable, depending on the build and situation. If I am in a zerg or roam with a group, I prefer Well. If I solo roam I mostly take CC, or if I am with a MM build – blood fiend.

For sPvP in the current condi-heavy environment, CC is indeed often the best choice. I, however, sometimes count on putrid mark an passive minion coni cleansing to o the job, taking the fiend instead for a more sustained flow of heal, in case I am with a roamerish MM build for maps like, say, Kyhlo. I have never been high on ladders – highest I was back when I was playing sPvP more actively was 600-700ish, but I o believe that it was relatively enough to gain some perspective.