Guild Wars 2

Nope… When I can heal for 9k with a warrior heal, guardian heal… and whatever else,
and only about 5.5k + 700 per condition with Consume Conditions…

The skill is situational. If you dont have any conditions on you, the heal is weak. If you get lots of condis, it’s good.

Sorrow, gtfo the necromancers forum .

All the classes got heals that represents their class. If you take a look at other professions healing skills, you will soon realize that this skill is fine and doesn’t need nerfing at all.

Guardians: they have one that heals others, one that blocks attacks, and one that cures a condition every 10 second.
Warriors: have one that grants healing over time, one that gives you full adrenaline, and one that cures 2 conditions.
Engineers: got one that gives random boon, one that puts down a turret, and one that opens up a kit.
Rangers: one that heals them and their pet, a heal over time for you and your pet, and a healing spring.
Thief: one that stealth you, one that heals you as you attack, and one that cures immobilization while rolling backwards.
Elementalists: one that cures a condition with every pulse, one that gains a boon according to attunement, and one that heals everytime you attack.
Mesmers: One is Gain additional health for each active illusion, one is Reflect projectiles and heal yourself, and a charging a spell that will instantly heal you when activated. All those with very short cooldowns.

Necromancers: Well of blood (high cooldown, and you need to stay on top of it to benefit)
Summon blood fiend: was buffed not long ago because it was a total waste, and still is, kind of.
Consume condition: is the only healing spell that we have and worth getting, the more conditions you have the more you heal, however, it doesn’t scale well with conditions. And it has a higher cooldown than the highest cooldown mesmers have. With an annoying 1 second and a half cast time.

Check out the rest of the heal skills before you try to nerf ours.

Azraeel.1238:

Sorrow, gtfo the necromancers forum .

All the classes got heals that represents their class. If you take a look at other professions healing skills, you will soon realize that this skill is fine and doesn’t need nerfing at all.

Guardians: they have one that heals others, one that blocks attacks, and one that cures a condition every 10 second.
Warriors: have one that grants healing over time, one that gives you full adrenaline, and one that cures 2 conditions.
Engineers: got one that gives random boon, one that puts down a turret, and one that opens up a kit.
Rangers: one that heals them and their pet, a heal over time for you and your pet, and a healing spring.
Thief: one that stealth you, one that heals you as you attack, and one that cures immobilization while rolling backwards.
Elementalists: one that cures a condition with every pulse, one that gains a boon according to attunement, and one that heals everytime you attack.
Mesmers: One is Gain additional health for each active illusion, one is Reflect projectiles and heal yourself, and a charging a spell that will instantly heal you when activated. All those with very short cooldowns.

Necromancers: Well of blood (high cooldown, and you need to stay on top of it to benefit)
Summon blood fiend: was buffed not long ago because it was a total waste, and still is, kind of.
Consume condition: is the only healing spell that we have and worth getting, the more conditions you have the more you heal, however, it doesn’t scale well with conditions. And it has a higher cooldown than the highest cooldown mesmers have. With an annoying 1 second and a half cast time.

Check out the rest of the heal skills before you try to nerf ours.

Read the OP?

Necromancers have a higher health pool, so they need more healing and the fact that they cannot be healed in death shroud (which they are in quite frequently.) is the reason they have more self healing.

Sorrow is like the westboro baptist church of necromancers … He won’t be swayed by our fancy logic.

Read what I wrote about that particular heal skill? Yeah, i posted more than I should have with the whole comparison, but that is to show you that this heal ISN’T “too strong”. The extra heal that we get from conditions doesn’t scale well. The extra suggestions you’ve made (Transfusion, Deathly Invigoration) will not balance this particular heal, nor the whole class. In fact it might get people to QQ more over us. Signet of Locust is a utility. Well of blood removing conditions ever 3 seconds is a nice buff.

What I’m trying to say, is that you will screw up my only heal source just because you want to buff some other places. I don’t have any points in blood, so basically I wont benefit from half of your suggestions, I don’t use the signet in real fights, so that’s another useless suggestion (for my build), and I won’t change to well of blood even with that suggestion, because I prefer direct heal instead of overtime.

So basically, that little nerf reduced my healing without giving my build any other source of heal.

I always viewed Consume as kind of a controlling Heal. Enemy players will usually assume you have it equipped if they don’t see a fiend, and it forces them to play their conditions with some thought. The extra heal per condition is not OP because I feel like it can make up for our lack of mobility and mitigation.

I’m getting tired of repeating the same things over and over.

I’m not up for a straight nerf to CC. I think Necromancer healing should be buffed on all the line. But if ANet doesn’t want to do that, I proposed another solution to the REAL problem I’ve tried to point out in this topic the lack of variety among healing skills.

Don’t kittening get mad every time you see something which barely resembles a nerf proposal.

sorrow.2364:

I’m getting tired of repeating the same things over and over.

I’m not up for a straight nerf to CC. I think Necromancer healing should be buffed on all the line. But if ANet doesn’t want to do that, I proposed another solution to the REAL problem I’ve tried to point out in this topic the lack of variety among healing skills.

Don’t kittening get mad every time you see something which barely resembles a nerf proposal.

But your solution is a nerf. Thats not an option!

sorrow.2364:

I know that you guys are on the offensive because of all the people complaining about terror+burning, but don’t kittening start a kittenstorm that big each time you see “too strong” near something regarding necromancers.

Then why would you create a topic with a title like that? You knew it would be inflammatory prior to posting but still decided to post it. Of course people in here will freak out about it with all the “nerf necro” talk going around recently and you knew that beforehand.

Sepreh.5924:

Then why would you create a topic with a title like that? You knew it would be inflammatory prior to posting but still decided to post it. Of course people in here will freak out about it with all the “nerf necro” talk going around recently and you knew that beforehand.

Because I thought that those people are not the most part, so I could just ignore them and do some constructive reasoning with people who don’t freak out just reading the title.
Sadly, I was wrong.

spoj.9672:

But your solution is a nerf. Thats not an option!

My solution is not a nerf. My solution is just to move some of the healing capability of CC to other unused skills/traits. It’s not a nerf, it is just a “skill potential” balance.
I did not proposed to just remove those extra healing of CC. I’ve just proposed to spread it among other skills, so that people who doesn’t run CC can still enjoy its massive healing, making WoB and BF suddently more attractive.

spoj.9672:

sorrow.2364:

I’m getting tired of repeating the same things over and over.

I’m not up for a straight nerf to CC. I think Necromancer healing should be buffed on all the line. But if ANet doesn’t want to do that, I proposed another solution to the REAL problem I’ve tried to point out in this topic the lack of variety among healing skills.

Don’t kittening get mad every time you see something which barely resembles a nerf proposal.

But your solution is a nerf. Thats not an option!

Agreed. A nerf is a nerf is a nerf.

Calling a healing skill with a 1.25s cast and obvious animation “too strong” misses the mark in my opinion.

The full, unconditional cleanse is the only thing that makes it that valuable. The only other multi-cleanses (Staff 4 doesn’t full cleanse unless hitting multiple targets) that a Necro has are dodge-able (both Dagger 4 and Staff 4 cleanse nothing if dodged) or take up utility slots (Well of Power). Necromancer also has only one condition removing trait (Shrouded Removal) that is generally regarded as a sub-par trait for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it is in the same slot as Greater Marks which is still nearly required to be remotely functional.

While necro is in a state that could use some adjustments, Consume Conditions is the least of the problems. You could buff WoB, give necro some other reliable means of cleansing (like making Staff 4 and/or Dagger 4 not hit dependent) so Consume wouldn’t be as critical, but a nerf is certainly not warranted.

EDIT: I did read the OP, sorrow. I’m saying your suggestions aren’t totally off-base, but reducing the heal on Consume is not warranted. Buffing other aspects of the profession to make the other heals viable is a reasonable solution.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Calling a healing skill with a 1.25s cast and obvious animation “too strong” misses the mark in my opinion.

The full, unconditional cleanse is the only thing that makes it that valuable. The only other multi-cleanses (Staff 4 doesn’t full cleanse unless hitting multiple targets) that a Necro has are dodge-able (both Dagger 4 and Staff 4 cleanse nothing if dodged) or take up utility slots (Well of Power). Necromancer also has only one condition removing trait (Shrouded Removal) that is generally regarded as a sub-par trait for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it is in the same slot as Greater Marks which is still nearly required to be remotely functional.

While necro is in a state that could use some adjustments, Consume Conditions is the least of the problems. You could buff WoB, give necro some other reliable means of cleansing (like making Staff 4 and/or Dagger 4 not hit dependent) so Consume wouldn’t be as critical, but a nerf is certainly not warranted.

Read the OP, please.

This game has way too little variety in healing skills. I’d rather see them make some more for all professions first before tweaking anything. Even though Consume Conditions is good for PvP, it’s a long skill to cast and I’d rather have something that slowly heals me over time, like the Blood Minion… however take that and you’ll be a laughing stock with a heal after it’s nuked to the ground.

Sorrow…your idea, regarding CC, is terrible.

WoB is for dungeon runs because it supports the group.

Blood Fiend could be used for MM in regular PvE.

CC is primarily for WvW because that is the place where you can get hit with the most conditions.

Learn the class before making posts like this…

I know this because I have played Necro since the launch of game, only Necro.

I do, however, agree with you that there should be a way to heal your corporeal form while in DS.

Kitedyou.1720:

Sorrow…your idea is terrible.
WoB is for dungeon runs. Blood Fiend could be used for MM in regular PvE.
CC is primarily for WvW.
Learn the class before making posts like this…

I know this because I have done this.

What’s more funny than your senseless vision of the profession, is that you match that with a copious dose of arrogance.
Since when single skills are supposed to be effective only in a single gamemode?
That’s why devs are splitting skill effects in different gamemodes.

sorrow.2364:

My solution is not a nerf. My solution is just to move some of the healing capability of CC to other unused skills/traits. It’s not a nerf, it is just a “skill potential” balance.
I did not proposed to just remove those extra healing of CC. I’ve just proposed to spread it among other skills, so that people who doesn’t run CC can still enjoy its massive healing, making WoB and BF suddently more attractive.

Your suggestion nerfs one very important WvW skill…
Why not just leave it the way it is and add a cond removal to the well and Blood fiend?

Must not be too “senseless” when a lot of other people are posting the same thing…

sorrow.2364:

Since when single skills are supposed to be effective only in a single gamemode?

Another stupid comment…

This is comparable to how different races work better for different spec types in a given class…

Think about it. How often have you had 4+ conditions on you in PvE?? I don’t think there has ever been a time that I have had that many… Now, you get into WvW and you easily will top that…most of the time in the blink of an eye.

The well is great for dungeon runs because your group is generally close together and it provides a bit of auxiliary healing for them; it could also provide a 3 second protection buff to them too if you spec for it.

The blood fiend can be very useful for MM’s the right spec. I could solo many champions with my MM spec.

I would pick well of blood anytime in dungeons to help out my team. My teammates appreciate it aswell

Please no nerfing Consume Conditions. It is not over-powered and is a core part of many builds. If anything, Necromancer’s heals are barely sufficient for its health and, without the condition removal, Necromancer would be sub-par compared to other professions. Remember that Necro has only Flesh Wurm as a gap opener and poor damage avoidance skills. Necromancer’s heals have to be better than average because the profession is designed to take more damage.

Kitedyou.1720:

sorrow.2364:

Since when single skills are supposed to be effective only in a single gamemode?

Another stupid comment…

This is comparable to how different races work better for different spec types in a given class…

Think about it. How often have you had 4+ conditions on you in PvE?? I don’t think there has ever been a time that I have had that many… Now, you get into WvW and you easily will top that…most of the time in the blink of an eye.

The well is great for dungeon runs because your group is generally close together and it provides a bit of auxiliary healing for them; it could also provide a 3 second protection buff to them too if you spec for it.

The blood fiend can be very useful for MM’s the right spec. I could solo many champions with my MM spec.

You are missing the point. Who has ever said that single skills are supposed to be good in single gamemodes?

Anchoku.8142:

Please no nerfing Consume Conditions. It is not over-powered and is a core part of many builds. If anything, Necromancer’s heals are barely sufficient for its health and, without the condition removal, Necromancer would be sub-par compared to other professions. Remember that Necro has only Flesh Wurm as a gap opener and poor damage avoidance skills. Necromancer’s heals have to be better than average because the profession is designed to take more damage.

Where can I change the topic title to “read the OP”?
This topic has provided intresting statistical data. Almost 95% of people don’t read the OP before posting.

Consume condition isn’t too strong.

The other heals are just garbage. A minion with a 1.25 cast time that you then need another global to explode and heal for a garbage amount. Its good aspect is supposed to be the 900 heals on its autoattacks, yet the necromancer is not built for long term survival and you can easily be burst down so the long term healing from this skill is undervalued.

Well is the biggest pile of garbage of them all. A huge, 40 sec cd heal with mediocre healing total for the cooldown it has, and in order to outheal consume conditions or the minion heal you need to stay in it.

Most importantly, the other heals will never measure up simply because the necro without a staff or offhand dagger has no condition removal built into his power sets. A necromancer running d/d+ axe/focus only has 1 condi transfer and that’s it if he’s not running consume conditions.

And even if the other heals healed 30% more than consume conditions akittens peak, they would not overcome the damage mitigated by clearing conditions simply because havin 4 bleed stacks and poison and burning on you will easily do well over 2k damage per second.

Sorry about that, sorrow. I read the suggestion to not give bonus heals for conditions but Life Force, instead. That sounded like a nerf.

Guys, just let this thread die. Everything that can be said about the topic has been said.

Anchoku.8142:

Sorry about that, sorrow. I read the suggestion to not give bonus heals for conditions but Life Force, instead. That sounded like a nerf.

Moving the extra healing of CC to traits/utility and make CC give LF sounds like a nerf to you?
The healing is still there, it is just moved to Deathly Invigoration, Transfusion and Signet of Locust. It is even useful to re-evaluate the Blood Magic traitline, which is garbage right now and to give a more reliable way to gain Life Force.
A consume condition well used can refill most of your LF bar, which is quite good, to be honest and it can be hardly defined a nerf.

Taking away strength from one skill is the definition of nerfing it, regardless of whether you spread that strength to other skills or not. Why would I want to need 2 traits, and use 3 abilities to do the healing I can do right now with a single skill?

Go ahead and nerf their heals, however allow them to heal while in death shroud.

Bhawb.7408:

Taking away strength from one skill is the definition of nerfing it, regardless of whether you spread that strength to other skills or not. Why would I want to need 2 traits, and use 3 abilities to do the healing I can do right now with a single skill?

Yes, if you just stop at the first point of the changes I’ve suggested.
Nerf is actually when you just takes away the strenght of a skill without giving it to other skills, just because that skill is too strong as it was supposed to be. When you give the same capabilities of the skill changed to other skills or trait, you can’t call it a proper nerf, just a “strenght redistribution”. The potential is still there, it hasn’t been taken away.

The advantages of having the extra healing of CC spread among other traits is that you are not forced to bring CC to have decent healing. You can bring BF or WoB without any loss in healing capabily. Also, having different sources of healing encourage skill play and gives Necro better sustain.

Well of blood is aoe and a combo field, gives protection if traited, heals more if you have no condition.

What do you think?

Nerfing is any removal of strength without equal strength being given back. That is what a nerf is; making something weaker. If they made axe do 50% less damage and made dagger do 50% more damage, that is a nerf to axe, it has nothing to do with the fact that they made it up to the class overall power by buffing dagger. However, if they took damage off of Axe 2 and gave it to Axe 1, such that your overall damage was the same, that is not a nerf, because we are looking at the Axe as a single thing, skills 1-3.

Nerf is relative, you pick an entity, defined either singularly (like a skill or trait) or a collective (such as a class) and then compare the relative strength of that entity before and after a change. If the entity itself is weaker, it is a nerf, regardless of any other changes, if it is stronger, it is a buff, and if strength is moved then it is merely a redistribution. What you are talking about is the class overall, saying that CC needs its healing redistributed to other heals. That is fine, but that is, by definition a NERF to CC.

sorrow.2364:

I’m getting tired of repeating the same things over and over.

I’m not up for a straight nerf to CC. I think Necromancer healing should be buffed on all the line. But if ANet doesn’t want to do that, I proposed another solution to the REAL problem I’ve tried to point out in this topic the lack of variety among healing skills.

Don’t kittening get mad every time you see something which barely resembles a nerf proposal.

No, you proposed a straight-up nerf to CC because it’s too strong. Look at your own title for this thread. Just because you ALSO proposed other changes doesn’t mean you’re not asking to nerf CC.

If you can admit this and understand that it’s okay to talk about you wanting to nerf CC but buff other heals, you’ll still find that almost every other poster here disagrees with you for one of two very good reasons:

1. They don’t see the artificial need to have all heal skills be equally useful to all builds. As long as one heal is broadly applicable, the others can be more specialized and therefore used a lot less often. Or,

2. They believe that CC is fine and the other two heals need to be buffed or even modified in their mechanics.

You strongly disagree with #1. Fine. There’s no right or wrong answer on that one, it’s a matter of class “feel” and many of us are okay with niche heals.

You can work with #2 if you want. Buff and modify the other two heals, per the many suggestions in this thread. You’d come out the hero for it.

But instead, you want to pretend that no one else can read, and that if you nerf A and buff B that you really haven’t nerfed A at all. Your title says it all: CC is “too strong”, and you proposed that it be nerfed — and other things buffed — in order to create a situation where more Necros use different heals. You’ve so rigidly insisted on this, and on you being right and dozens of others being wrong, that you’ve lost the debate entirely.

Druitt.7629:

No, you proposed a straight-up nerf to CC because it’s too strong. Look at your own title for this thread. Just because you ALSO proposed other changes doesn’t mean you’re not asking to nerf CC.

If you can admit this and understand that it’s okay to talk about you wanting to nerf CC but buff other heals, you’ll still find that almost every other poster here disagrees with you for one of two very good reasons:

1. They don’t see the artificial need to have all heal skills be equally useful to all builds. As long as one heal is broadly applicable, the others can be more specialized and therefore used a lot less often. Or,

2. They believe that CC is fine and the other two heals need to be buffed or even modified in their mechanics.

You strongly disagree with #1. Fine. There’s no right or wrong answer on that one, it’s a matter of class “feel” and many of us are okay with niche heals.

You can work with #2 if you want. Buff and modify the other two heals, per the many suggestions in this thread. You’d come out the hero for it.

But instead, you want to pretend that no one else can read, and that if you nerf A and buff B that you really haven’t nerfed A at all. Your title says it all: CC is “too strong”, and you proposed that it be nerfed — and other things buffed — in order to create a situation where more Necros use different heals. You’ve so rigidly insisted on this, and on you being right and dozens of others being wrong, that you’ve lost the debate entirely.

sorrow.2364:

I don’t think it needs a nerf and nothing else.

I wanted just to point out an issue, which is that Consume Conditions overshadows any other heal of the Necromancer.

That issue can be resolved in many ways. Since ArenaNet seems to not be favourable with an overall increase of heals, I proposed a solution which can solve the issue without buffing other heals.

Of course the best case is Necromancers having better healing capabilities accoding to their higher health pool, but it has been proposed several times and never got enough attention, leading to the conclusion that it won’t happen.

I don’t like being forced to pick Consume Condition over any other heal, it kills the profession variety and, also, the fun.
It is an issue and has to be solved somehow.

Even in a minion build, BF is subpar compared to CC. Less healing, less reliability, no condition cleansing.
Even in a well-centered build, WoB is subpar compared to CC. Higher cooldown, less healing, no direct condition cleansing.

I just feel forced to bring CC over those skills just because I can’t give up on the healing of CC and, in fact, I succed way more when I don’t bring the other two heals.
What I’m saying is proved by the fact that any decent Necro has nothing but CC as his heal. I don’t even remember the last time I’ve seen any good Necro using WoB or BF over CC.

Is CC overpowered? Are WoB or BF underpowered? Who knows.

Bhawb.7408:

Nerfing is any removal of strength without equal strength being given back. That is what a nerf is; making something weaker. If they made axe do 50% less damage and made dagger do 50% more damage, that is a nerf to axe, it has nothing to do with the fact that they made it up to the class overall power by buffing dagger. However, if they took damage off of Axe 2 and gave it to Axe 1, such that your overall damage was the same, that is not a nerf, because we are looking at the Axe as a single thing, skills 1-3.

Nerf is relative, you pick an entity, defined either singularly (like a skill or trait) or a collective (such as a class) and then compare the relative strength of that entity before and after a change. If the entity itself is weaker, it is a nerf, regardless of any other changes, if it is stronger, it is a buff, and if strength is moved then it is merely a redistribution. What you are talking about is the class overall, saying that CC needs its healing redistributed to other heals. That is fine, but that is, by definition a NERF to CC.

So, replacing the extra healing with Life Force, while moving the extra heal to other skills/traits, is a nerf? This is going far too subjective, to be honest.

You are either:
Asking that CC gets weaker, moving that lost strength into other heals
OR
Asking that CC stays essentially the same, and buffing other heals

Changing it to LF is irrelevant, you could make it so that it heals the exact same eHP per condition, but via LF not HP, but that is the same. Either it heals for less eHP and you have nerfed it, or you haven’t changed its strength at all, and this entire thread’s premise was pointless. You might as well have just said “buff our other heals”. Pick whichever you want, but both make you look equally wrong.

Bhawb.7408:

You are either:
Asking that CC gets weaker, moving that lost strength into other heals
OR
Asking that CC stays essentially the same, and buffing other heals

Changing it to LF is irrelevant, you could make it so that it heals the exact same eHP per condition, but via LF not HP, but that is the same. Either it heals for less eHP and you have nerfed it, or you haven’t changed its strength at all, and this entire thread’s premise was pointless. You might as well have just said “buff our other heals”. Pick whichever you want, but both make you look equally wrong.

Still, you are missing the point of the thread.
The point of the thread isn’t about the changes I’ve suggested.
The point of the thread is the issue of healing skills, not being equally balanced among them. I could have called it “WoB and BF are too weak” or “Imbalances among healing skills”, it doesn’t matter. The subject it still the same, regardless the point of view.

My solution is one of the possible solutions.
Call it a nerf to CC, I don’t mind. You are trying to argue about merely formal matters.
You don’t like my changes? Then propose your own.
Do you think that heals are equally balanced now? Then explain why.

What I don’t want in this topic is people getting mad just because they think that my proposed change may be considered a nerf to CC, completely moving the focus of the topic to something which doesn’t really matters or, at least, I didn’t want it to matter.

sorrow.2364:

Still, you are missing the point of the thread.
The point of the thread isn’t about the changes I’ve suggested.
The point of the thread is the issue of healing skills, not being equally balanced among them. I could have called it “WoB and BF are too weak” or “Imbalances among healing skills”, it doesn’t matter. The subject it still the same, regardless the point of view.

Do you really not see how a nerf to CC would be a nerf to CC?

Like I said before: nerfing CC only makes CC worse and makes the Necro worse, it doesn’t improve the other heals. It only makes the other heals more attractive by contrast to CC, but the net effect is that the Necromancer is worse off. If you really want to do something useful with the heals to bring them up to scratch with each other, buff the other two heals, don’t nerf CC.

Sorrow in this instance you are 100 percent wrong. The reason CC is so strong is because it’s our only viable form of sustain without it we are 100 percent dead to any team with a strong condition plus pressure team. It needs to be a big heal to allow us to sustain better.

Without the power of CC we are going to be punished severely and without recourse. Teams currently push the necro until he is forced into ds, than they push him with conditions until he uses consume. Now they know he has no sustain and can drop him easily.

If you want to nerf CC than you have to give us the ability to sustain in a fight to make WoB and BM a more viable form. As other players have said WoB is okay if you are not being focused. Unfortunately we are always focused and have no viable sustain currently.

sorrow.2364:

Anchoku.8142:

Sorry about that, sorrow. I read the suggestion to not give bonus heals for conditions but Life Force, instead. That sounded like a nerf.

Moving the extra healing of CC to traits/utility and make CC give LF sounds like a nerf to you?
The healing is still there, it is just moved to Deathly Invigoration, Transfusion and Signet of Locust. It is even useful to re-evaluate the Blood Magic traitline, which is garbage right now and to give a more reliable way to gain Life Force.
A consume condition well used can refill most of your LF bar, which is quite good, to be honest and it can be hardly defined a nerf.

Yes it still sound like a nerf, why? Because not everyone use those. If you want to buff other sources of healing to make people use Blood Magic and well of blood more often then go ahead, but not at the expense of that one heal skill.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Like I said before: nerfing CC only makes CC worse and makes the Necro worse, it doesn’t improve the other heals. It only makes the other heals more attractive by contrast to CC, but the net effect is that the Necromancer is worse off. If you really want to do something useful with the heals to bring them up to scratch with each other, buff the other two heals, don’t nerf CC.

Bas.7406:

Sorrow in this instance you are 100 percent wrong. The reason CC is so strong is because it’s our only viable form of sustain without it we are 100 percent dead to any team with a strong condition plus pressure team. It needs to be a big heal to allow us to sustain better.

Without the power of CC we are going to be punished severely and without recourse. Teams currently push the necro until he is forced into ds, than they push him with conditions until he uses consume. Now they know he has no sustain and can drop him easily.

If you want to nerf CC than you have to give us the ability to sustain in a fight to make WoB and BM a more viable form. As other players have said WoB is okay if you are not being focused. Unfortunately we are always focused and have no viable sustain currently.

sorrow.2364:

I’m all up for the change of base heals according to the base health pool of a profession, but looking as it is right now, Consume Conditions is quite a lot over the top.

Since I don’t think ArenaNet will ever balance heals according to the health pool, I think the best thing to do to not put the other heals in the “bad” area is to adjust Consume Conditions to make the other heals more attractive.

The easiest comparison which comes in my mind right now is Mending of warrior.
Warrior and Necros have the same base HP pool, but, still, Mending heals the same base amount, but with only two conditions removed and no extra healing.

I think myself that Necros needs better sustain.
In fact, there is another thread from myself:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Necromancer-and-Warrior-survivability/first#post2357403

This topic has been made in order to point out the issue of the healing skills and to suggest a change which doesn’t involve a whole buff to Necromancer’s healing capability, which I think it is needed, but I don’t think it will ever come (that’s why I proposed another solution without hurting CC that much).

As I said, I don’t think the issue is CC being to strong and nothing else. I just think that healing skills are imbalanced among them. Who knows if it is CC being too strong, WoB and BF being too weak or simply design flaws.

Azraeel.1238:

Yes it still sound like a nerf, why? Because not everyone use those. If you want to buff other sources of healing to make people use Blood Magic and well of blood more often then go ahead, but not at the expense of that one heal skill.

I proposed multiple solutions to the same problem.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Deathly-Invigoration-should-heal-more/first#post2348088

Bashing this thread blindly just because of a possible nerf is just stupid.
Just focus on the issue and propose your solution, don’t just “Huh, it’s a nerf proposal in the OP. You’re all wrong! Let this thread die!”.

I didn’t say “Let this thread die!”, however I wanted you to understand the impact of this little nerf on many builds. I run 30/10/0/0/30, with consume conditions, well of suffering, well of corruption, Spectral walk, and lich form. I’m sure many run the same build or a close one. With little health regeneration, I totally depend on this single heal to provide me with whatever extra heal it gives, even it it was as low as, say 500 HP. Considering the fact that adding points in Blood Magic will kill my dps greatly, I would never switch to that. All you will end up doing is giving me less heals.

If you stuck with the other suggestions, without trying to nerf this, I would have agreed with you, to promote other builds.

Azraeel.1238:

I didn’t say “Let this thread die!”, however I wanted you to understand the impact of this little nerf on many builds. I run 30/10/0/0/30, with consume conditions, well of suffering, well of corruption, Spectral walk, and lich form. I’m sure many run the same build or a close one. With little health regeneration, I totally depend on this single heal to provide me with whatever extra heal it gives, even it it was as low as, say 500 HP. Considering the fact that adding points in Blood Magic will kill my dps greatly, I would never switch to that. All you will end up doing is giving me less heals.

If you stuck with the other suggestions, without trying to nerf this, I would have agreed with you, to promote other builds.

Then propose your changes!
Criticism is when you say “I don’t agree with you”, constructive criticism is when you say also “but I’d do that, instead”.

I think CC is fine I would only sacrifice SOME healing power from the conditions and gain stacks of might. But that’ll never happen

sorrow.2364:

Azraeel.1238:

I didn’t say “Let this thread die!”, however I wanted you to understand the impact of this little nerf on many builds. I run 30/10/0/0/30, with consume conditions, well of suffering, well of corruption, Spectral walk, and lich form. I’m sure many run the same build or a close one. With little health regeneration, I totally depend on this single heal to provide me with whatever extra heal it gives, even it it was as low as, say 500 HP. Considering the fact that adding points in Blood Magic will kill my dps greatly, I would never switch to that. All you will end up doing is giving me less heals.

If you stuck with the other suggestions, without trying to nerf this, I would have agreed with you, to promote other builds.

Then propose your changes!
Criticism is when you say “I don’t agree with you”, constructive criticism is when you say also “but I’d do that, instead”.

Weve all said just buff the other heals but leave CC alone. CC is balanced, the other two are a little weak even for their niche roles.

spoj.9672:

sorrow.2364:

Azraeel.1238:

I didn’t say “Let this thread die!”, however I wanted you to understand the impact of this little nerf on many builds. I run 30/10/0/0/30, with consume conditions, well of suffering, well of corruption, Spectral walk, and lich form. I’m sure many run the same build or a close one. With little health regeneration, I totally depend on this single heal to provide me with whatever extra heal it gives, even it it was as low as, say 500 HP. Considering the fact that adding points in Blood Magic will kill my dps greatly, I would never switch to that. All you will end up doing is giving me less heals.

If you stuck with the other suggestions, without trying to nerf this, I would have agreed with you, to promote other builds.

Then propose your changes!
Criticism is when you say “I don’t agree with you”, constructive criticism is when you say also “but I’d do that, instead”.

Weve all said just buff the other heals but leave CC alone. CC is balanced, the other two are a little weak even for their niche roles.

What spoj said. Just cast Consume Conditions aside as it serves its purpose quite well, and go on with whatever other buffs you think are good. This little extra heal will not make those who go into Blood Magic Overpowered, as it scales a little. You need a lot of healing power to even notice a difference with this extra heal.

spoj.9672:

Weve all said just buff the other heals but leave CC alone. CC is balanced, the other two are a little weak even for their niche roles.

I still don’t see any real suggestion.
What I’m seeing here is that you guys are only afraid to get CC nerfed and you don’t really give a kitten about the problem.

None here has proposed a real change to WoB or BF. Everyone have just said “don’t nerf CC, buff WoB and BF instead”, which really doesn’t help to the issue if you don’t give a real alternative to what I’ve suggested.

Well nerfing CC will only make us even more useless in pve as we wont even be able to sustain ourselves anymore. We dont need to propose a suggestion, CC is perfectly balanced and far from too strong. You can propose a buff to the other heals if you want. I dont really care, the only one id use is WoB but i think thats strong enough as it is.

As far as im concerned there is no issue. Every class has a favoured heal and very rarely use the others. Mesmers use Ether feast, warriors use healing surge and guardians use signet of resolve unless they are playing pvp where they use shelter.

Ya know, in order to make the other heal options more appealing they should ADD condition removal to those too.

1 condition per tic of WoB.
1 or 2 conditions per hit from BF.

spoj.9672:

Well nerfing CC will only make us even more useless in pve as we wont even be able to sustain ourselves anymore. We dont need to propose a suggestion, CC is perfectly balanced and far from too strong. You can propose a buff to the other heals if you want. I dont really care, the only one id use is WoB but i think thats strong enough as it is.

As far as im concerned there is no issue. Every class has a favoured heal and very rarely use the others. Mesmers use Ether feast, warriors use healing surge and guardians use signet of resolve unless they are playing pvp where they use shelter.

That is not true at all.
Warriors use Healing Surge and Mending on the same level. Only Healing signet needs to be looked at, but it is another issue.
Elementalists have all the heals equally useful.
Guardians use both Signet and Shelter as much both in PvE and in PvE.
Engineers have Elixir and Turrets which are equally useful. Don’t know about Med kit.
Rangers use pretty much Healing Spring because of the combo field, but Troll Unguent and Heal as One are equally viable.
Thief have all heals viable. Withdraw and HiS are on the same level, signet is useful with high hit rates (P/P, for instance).
Mesmers suffer the same issue of Necromancers. Ether Feast is too strong to bring Mantra or Mirror.

Also, are we useless in PvE? We are the most tough profession in PvE, to be honest.

Anyway, with your answer you proved what I said. You don’t really care about balance as far your build works. You just don’t want any nerf.
That said, I don’t think that this mindset is the right one to approach this kind of thread.