Guild Wars 2

Jelzouki.4128:

ohhhh, okay yeah.

So do you think there will be room for change between now and the trait update?

In my opinion, yes. If for no other reason than the fact that the traits are still changing, even if we said nothing at all. When everything is loose and in flux, that’s when feedback & change is most plausible.

Plus, there’s still a good amount of time before the trait update, probably. I don’t have an actual timeline for it or anything, but given the state of Engineer traits, it will be a while. Maybe a couple of months?

Im serious, we have raised some serious issues with our class over the past few weeks, most of which is a re-hash of what we have posted over the past 2 years. Is anet going to adress these issues with our core class or are they just going to gloss over it, slap down our spec as a smoke screen and run away in the confusion, never again to address these issues.

I mean, 3 articles (perhaps more), numerous posts with avid discussion (most of which highlights necessary changes that would not be OP), and a community crying out for changes, should ellicit some type of communication from the DEVS. I mean the dev’s bent over backwards to have a discussion about Tomes, and the new name of the guardian spec after a dozen posts, when we have posted 1000s of posts about these issues, and they cannot at least interact with us?

Really worried they will release the spec and that will be that, until 6 months after HOT releases.

Gryph.8237:

Im serious, we have raised some serious issues with our class over the past few weeks, most of which is a re-hash of what we have posted over the past 2 years. Is anet going to adress these issues with our core class or are they just going to gloss over it, slap down our spec as a smoke screen and run away in the confusion, never again to address these issues.

I mean, 3 articles (perhaps more), numerous posts with avid discussion (most of which highlights necessary changes that would not be OP), and a community crying out for changes, should ellicit some type of communication from the DEVS. I mean the dev’s bent over backwards to have a discussion about Tomes, and the new name of the guardian spec after a dozen posts, when we have posted 1000s of posts about these issues, and they cannot at least interact with us?

Really worried they will release the spec and that will be that, until 6 months after HOT releases.

I’m hoping that we get some sort of “We hear you” type of statement on the POI this Friday along with our elite spec.

Roe.3679:

Gryph.8237:

Im serious, we have raised some serious issues with our class over the past few weeks, most of which is a re-hash of what we have posted over the past 2 years. Is anet going to adress these issues with our core class or are they just going to gloss over it, slap down our spec as a smoke screen and run away in the confusion, never again to address these issues.

I mean, 3 articles (perhaps more), numerous posts with avid discussion (most of which highlights necessary changes that would not be OP), and a community crying out for changes, should ellicit some type of communication from the DEVS. I mean the dev’s bent over backwards to have a discussion about Tomes, and the new name of the guardian spec after a dozen posts, when we have posted 1000s of posts about these issues, and they cannot at least interact with us?

Really worried they will release the spec and that will be that, until 6 months after HOT releases.

I’m hoping that we get some sort of “We hear you” type of statement on the POI this Friday along with our elite spec.

Considering the sheer amount of feedback in this thread alone (thanks again Gates), I would hope so. Your right though, any kind okittennowledgment would be great for morale.

Edit: how does of and acknowledgment translate to kitten stuff?

Not just this thread others in the section too as well as a 2 years old one(lol). A notice with a sincere face is the least they can do it’s bad enough ours in on a PoI with her…

zapv.8051:

Edit: how does of and acknowledgment translate to kitten stuff?

faaaaaaaaaaack. It’s a misspelling / mispronunciation of a more famous f word, but hey, ~profanity filters~, right?

Our profession does have ups and downs but I doubt they’ll address everything . For example, if they provide Necros with better lifeforce management, healing in DS might not be neccessary. If they make it so we can use utilities (even perhaps heal skill) in DS, better lifeforce generation might not be required. If they enable healing in DS, maybe better lifeforce management may not be necessary. Same goes for evades/invulnerability, etc. Lots of good points were raised, but some may not be needed if they get fixed through other means like mentioned above.
We’ll have to wait and see. I think they have a butt-load of feedback in this thread and other threads and I seriously think they are sitting back and actually reading it. When you’ve got 13+ pages of feedback, you have to, especially when there’s good ideas in there.

And even if we don’t see every change you’d want all bunched up in our spec (which we likely won’t)… we still need to see our other weapon skills / utilities. They said they’re re-designing those a bit too (adding certain extra functionalities that were lost from traits and what not). Personally, I’m hopeful and excited. I love my Necro now and if it gets buffed, I’ll love it even more

There will, eventually, be other specializations, too. Who knows; maybe next year it will be about swiping some ranged Ranger skills.

MethaneGas.8357:

Our profession does have ups and downs but I doubt they’ll address everything . For example, if they provide Necros with better lifeforce management, healing in DS might not be neccessary. If they make it so we can use utilities (even perhaps heal skill) in DS, better lifeforce generation might not be required. If they enable healing in DS, maybe better lifeforce management may not be necessary. Same goes for evades/invulnerability, etc. Lots of good points were raised, but some may not be needed if they get fixed through other means like mentioned above.
We’ll have to wait and see. I think they have a butt-load of feedback in this thread and other threads and I seriously think they are sitting back and actually reading it. When you’ve got 13+ pages of feedback, you have to, especially when there’s good ideas in there.

And even if we don’t see every change you’d want all bunched up in our spec (which we likely won’t)… we still need to see our other weapon skills / utilities. They said they’re re-designing those a bit too (adding certain extra functionalities that were lost from traits and what not). Personally, I’m hopeful and excited. I love my Necro now and if it gets buffed, I’ll love it even more

agreed. I’ll mirror what I said i this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/What-have-you-guys-done/first#post5056379

If you sift through how negative we are there are some really good and creative ideas that have been thrown out. It’s just that we typically express ourselves in a kittening manor.

MethaneGas.8357:

For example, if they provide Necros with better lifeforce management, healing in DS might not be neccessary.
…
If they enable healing in DS, maybe better lifeforce management may not be necessary.

I’m not sure what you mean by lf management (perhaps just better regen for condi builds?) but life force and healing through DS are two completely unrelated issues.

First of all, our healing is the worst of all classes. It is the worst if you look at the numbers alone, and it gets even worse if you see it in context of how big our health pool is, not to mention that we can’t mitigate damage with blocks/invuln/evades at all.

Our bad healing is the reason we can’t do attrition fights. ~5-7k healing every 25 seconds, that’s all we currently get. That means, if you take more than 7k damage in 25 seconds – which is pretty much unavoidable – you can’t heal up to full hp anymore and the only way to truly recover is to get out of combat.

Now, some would argue that life force is a resource similar to hp and its regen has to be factored in when you balance our healing. Of course that makes a little bit of sense, but mostly it is wrong. The cooldown of Death Shroud and the fact that we have almost no other ways of avoiding damage exposes our regular hp, no amount of life force regen can change that.

And then there’s of course the fact that the inability to heal in DS stands in direct conflict with a lot of our traits and every healing skill except Consume Conditions. There’s no excuse here, it’s a design flaw.

Also, not being able to get healed by allies is just unfair and a discrimination against necros.
Some people immediately think of outlier scenarios where a flock of guardians and elementalists jump to the rescue and shower the necro with healing skills. But seriously, how is this different from other classes when they use their defensive mechanics? In fact, they might even have the means to avoid CC while getting team heals, which we don’t have in DS at all.
The bottom line is, whenever someone thinks of a reason why ally healing through DS shouldn’t be possible, the counter argument to that is: other classes would do even better.

So, to sum it up, healing through DS needs to happen, period.
Mostly because it’s completely unreasonable that defensive traits should be canceled by our core defensive mechanic, but it would also be a first step towards improving our healing in general. Also, equality for all classes in regards to ally heals.
If you feel that lf regen could be better on weapon sets like scepter/dagger, fine, improve that too. But it really is unrelated to our poor healing situation.

One thing that is very important is the Soul Reaping “Speed of Shadows” and “Vital Persistence” traits.

These currently:

A) Increase movement speed by 25% & Reduce CD on DS by 30%
B) Life Force drains 50% slower and DS skills recharge 15% faster.

Shouldn’t the movement speed go with the Life force draining slower? That makes spectral builds viable and makes more sense seeing as if you want to be travelling faster in DS, you don’t want to run out of DS that quickly.

I think the idea is that having near to death and path of midnight together is a bit much. Those two traits are pretty good on their own. Whereas vital persistance and speed of shadows are less so. So it makes more sense to put a good trait with a lackluster trait in each case. This way we still need to make a meaningful choice.

People keep saying we need Mobility, and while I understand the sentiment I’d much rather Anet revisit their idea that Necros should be harder to escape from, if not one of the hardest classes to escape from. Increasing the speed of Dark Path would be a huge help in this, and I think that was also their mentality when they started talking about Chill in the Trait overhaul preview. Unfortunately though, due to stupid long cast times and stupid slow projectiles we simply can’t do that.

Also I’d much rather see us gain more ability to hold our ground. If we’re meant to be a low mobility class with stupid health give us the ability to hold our ground. At the very least we need more access to stability, otherwise our healthpool is utterly meaningless if we’re just stun locked and taking an absolute thrashing. So I say less focus on mobility, more focus on our ability to lock a target down (immobs, chills, and cripples) and the ability to mitigate damage better than just taking it when we’re stunlocked and have no other course of action.

I understand your sentiment, Ratphink, but conditions meant to hold opponents in combat just see more cleansing. If Necromancer had more ability to prevent disengagement, then other professions would receive new abilities to prevent capture and lock-down.

This is the same circular balancing we have seen since release. Right now, Necromancer is officially “balanced” with the right amount of mobility and escape prevention.

Consider Guardian getting a bind and traps.

Ratphink.4751:

People keep saying we need Mobility, and while I understand the sentiment I’d much rather Anet revisit their idea that Necros should be harder to escape from, if not one of the hardest classes to escape from. Increasing the speed of Dark Path would be a huge help in this, and I think that was also their mentality when they started talking about Chill in the Trait overhaul preview. Unfortunately though, due to stupid long cast times and stupid slow projectiles we simply can’t do that.

Also I’d much rather see us gain more ability to hold our ground. If we’re meant to be a low mobility class with stupid health give us the ability to hold our ground. At the very least we need more access to stability, otherwise our healthpool is utterly meaningless if we’re just stun locked and taking an absolute thrashing. So I say less focus on mobility, more focus on our ability to lock a target down (immobs, chills, and cripples) and the ability to mitigate damage better than just taking it when we’re stunlocked and have no other course of action.

What in the F* are you talking about?

Necromancers have so much soft CC to stop an opponent from running away???!!!! The only thing that limits us is when they use a leap skill or teleport or some other mobility skill that we simply can’t keep up with the range, so we can no longer soft cc them. If we got one leap on our great sword I would be happy.

I’d rather see more pulls and shadowstepping our foes to us than getting leaps and ground-targeted teleports, myself.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’d rather see more pulls and shadowstepping our foes to us than getting leaps and ground-targeted teleports, myself.

This.
Dark Pact reduce Immob 1 second, increase range to 900 and shadow step target to us (maybe increase CD? Idk.)
Make spectral grasp faster and better at homing like turret missiles are since unlike most ranged abilities it is fully intended to be used at the highest distances away because you’re luring them back from a distance. Maybe even make it shadow step them to you to fix the stupid pull bugs.

I’d be allllll for that.

Jelzouki.4128:

Ratphink.4751:

People keep saying we need Mobility, and while I understand the sentiment I’d much rather Anet revisit their idea that Necros should be harder to escape from, if not one of the hardest classes to escape from. Increasing the speed of Dark Path would be a huge help in this, and I think that was also their mentality when they started talking about Chill in the Trait overhaul preview. Unfortunately though, due to stupid long cast times and stupid slow projectiles we simply can’t do that.

Also I’d much rather see us gain more ability to hold our ground. If we’re meant to be a low mobility class with stupid health give us the ability to hold our ground. At the very least we need more access to stability, otherwise our healthpool is utterly meaningless if we’re just stun locked and taking an absolute thrashing. So I say less focus on mobility, more focus on our ability to lock a target down (immobs, chills, and cripples) and the ability to mitigate damage better than just taking it when we’re stunlocked and have no other course of action.

What in the F* are you talking about?

Necromancers have so much soft CC to stop an opponent from running away???!!!! The only thing that limits us is when they use a leap skill or teleport or some other mobility skill that we simply can’t keep up with the range, so we can no longer soft cc them. If we got one leap on our great sword I would be happy.

They use a leap or teleport or block the so-claled soft cc or go stealth. No chance of ctahcing them. like, AT all. Especially since all classes but necro get what basically amounts to perma-vigor via trait.

@Jelzouki: My point was that what soft cc we’re given, and what pulls and teleports we have to try and lock opponents down so badly implemented they don’t work. There’s a reason that nobody uses Spectral Grasp, a skill that should be one of our best means of making sure people don’t escape: the projectile is so slow that just having swiftness ensures it never lands when you’re target is trying to escape.

Having access to pulls, immobs, and means of ensuring that others can’t just spam their leaps teleports and swiftness to get away from us is what I think we need (but that’s just my opinion and I’ll be the first to admit I’m not any form of expert on the necro). But having the skills I mentioned above is also redundant if they simply can’t land, and that’s an issue with our cast times and projectile speeds as well. The class is so clunky that an arthritic grandmother can dodge most of our skills (I’m looking at your Dark Pact) which just exasperates our already pathetic ability to hold people down in place.

The soft CC stops some opponents from running away, if they miss a dodge or don’t have a condi clear/condi immunity up. I was once tailing a Warrior, keeping him within range via long-distance chills, etc., but for a split second he put a tree between myself and him, an ability of mine missed, and he was gone.

I will say though, Spectral Grasp does have one abominably enjoyable niche use: pulling people down from walls in WvW. They go flying out towards you from their z-axis height, then drop down suddenly. Prep a Dagger #3, and they’re immobilized in a potential sea of teammates. Wait 25 – 30 seconds, then repeat with the next over-zealous wall-stander.

Grasp could definitely use work, but there’s still some fun to be had with it.

Ratphink.4751:

I’d much rather Anet revisit their idea that Necros should be harder to escape from, if not one of the hardest classes to escape from.

So instead of both necromancer and opponents actually moving around manually, you’d rather just make everyone slow the moment that they enter into range of a plodding necromancer?

Ratphink.4751:

At the very least we need more access to stability, otherwise our healthpool is utterly meaningless if we’re just stun locked and taking an absolute thrashing.

If you’re talking about PvP, does anyone really move a lot at all once people begin contesting a capture node? You just want another warrior on the field?

Ratphink.4751:

So I say less focus on mobility, more focus on our ability to lock a target down (immobs, chills, and cripples) and the ability to mitigate damage better than just taking it when we’re stunlocked and have no other course of action.

So people will continue to walk/teleport up to slow necromancers, but now slow necromancers get to make these players move super slow or not at all? GW2’s combat is already reminiscent enough of Runescape.

Grasp is the most enjoyable Necromancer skill in the entire game with very few exceptions (like Spectral Wall in EotM). I really want it to be viable so I can use it in more builds.

Bhawb.7408:

Grasp is the most enjoyable Necromancer skill in the entire game with very few exceptions (like Spectral Wall in EotM). I really want it to be viable so I can use it in more builds.

Thats why you do my changes:

“Dark Pact reduce Immob 1 second, increase range to 900 and shadow step target to us (maybe increase CD? Idk.)
Make spectral grasp faster and better at homing like turret missiles are since unlike most ranged abilities it is fully intended to be used at the highest distances away because you’re luring them back from a distance. Maybe even make it shadow step them to you to fix the stupid pull bugs. "

Not OP, just finally working as intended!

Only problem it would have is that it wouldn’t count as an interrupt anymore unless they added a .5 sec daze to it.

I’d trade the interrupt for some damage.

Atherakhia.4086:

I’d trade the interrupt for some damage.

I wouldn’t. It’s one of our few interrupts that doesn’t get blocked by Resistance.

Atherakhia.4086:

I’d trade the interrupt for some damage.

Or that, would go with that as well.

What would be fan-friggen-tastic is if they reworked the visual to be a cast → shadow claw coming out of the ground to “swallow them” which shadow steps them to us. That’d look so cool and keep the same general feel of the spell. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m sick of relying on a projectile for a move designed to be used (often) at very far distances. There’s a reason longbow got a velocity boost.

I just wish the pull on Spectral Grasp was more reliable. While I feel like it’s pretty good at connecting (the projectile isn’t that slow, guys) it will basically never drag an opponent up-hill or over small objects. I like the shadowstep suggestion, except I think that removes the “Pull you over the edge” functionality that currently acts as its best usage scenario.

Softspoken.2410:

I just wish the pull on Spectral Grasp was more reliable. While I feel like it’s pretty good at connecting (the projectile isn’t that slow, guys) it will basically never drag an opponent up-hill or over small objects. I like the shadowstep suggestion, except I think that removes the “Pull you over the edge” functionality that currently acts as its best usage scenario.

You never get strange random “obstructed” errors? I do from time to time…

Softspoken.2410:

I just wish the pull on Spectral Grasp was more reliable. While I feel like it’s pretty good at connecting (the projectile isn’t that slow, guys) it will basically never drag an opponent up-hill or over small objects. I like the shadowstep suggestion, except I think that removes the “Pull you over the edge” functionality that currently acts as its best usage scenario.

I’m willing to give up that best usage scenario for a scenario that would be applicable to more than “sieging a wall in WvW”.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Softspoken.2410:

I just wish the pull on Spectral Grasp was more reliable. While I feel like it’s pretty good at connecting (the projectile isn’t that slow, guys) it will basically never drag an opponent up-hill or over small objects. I like the shadowstep suggestion, except I think that removes the “Pull you over the edge” functionality that currently acts as its best usage scenario.

I’m willing to give up that best usage scenario for a scenario that would be applicable to more than “sieging a wall in WvW”.

In GvGs, pulls are quite powerful. They’re just completely unreliable the vast majority of the time unless you’re already in melee range or you’re an engineer.

Is there anything wrong with just making all pulls work like the engineers? Remove the projectile entirely and simply make a shadow tether between the Necro and target?

Atherakhia.4086:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Softspoken.2410:

I just wish the pull on Spectral Grasp was more reliable. While I feel like it’s pretty good at connecting (the projectile isn’t that slow, guys) it will basically never drag an opponent up-hill or over small objects. I like the shadowstep suggestion, except I think that removes the “Pull you over the edge” functionality that currently acts as its best usage scenario.

I’m willing to give up that best usage scenario for a scenario that would be applicable to more than “sieging a wall in WvW”.

In GvGs, pulls are quite powerful. They’re just completely unreliable the vast majority of the time unless you’re already in melee range or you’re an engineer.

Is there anything wrong with just making all pulls work like the engineers? Remove the projectile entirely and simply make a shadow tether between the Necro and target?

Yeah, there’s a lot wrong with it. If we’re ever on par with Engineers the Devs will have to buff their babies. :P

AFAIK engis are always complaining about their pulls as well so it’s not just Grasp. It’s the same problem as golem charge I think, movement skills just stall if there’s the tiniest bump in the terrain. Except for a rare few that actually lift the user slightly above the ground like ranger’s Swoop. Even that doesn’t always work, but it’s better. They should just make all of them work like that, both pulls and move skills.

I like the idea of just making it like an Engineer’s pull. There’s appropriate dodge-ability, along with reliability. They could even just make it “look” like a homing, grasping hand if they want it to have flavor, but it would effectively work like the Engineer’s pull without the projectile garbage that currently sits on top of it.

EDIT – By reliability I mean it at least landing from range. I’m sure Engineers would complain a whole lot more if a random stutter in a player’s movement made the pull miss entirely.

Softspoken.2410:

I just wish the pull on Spectral Grasp was more reliable. While I feel like it’s pretty good at connecting (the projectile isn’t that slow, guys) it will basically never drag an opponent up-hill or over small objects. I like the shadowstep suggestion, except I think that removes the “Pull you over the edge” functionality that currently acts as its best usage scenario.

I was just coming in here to post this! How cool would this be if it were changed to a shadowstep pull instead of a regular pull? It would definitely make spectral grasp more likely to make someone’s utility bar.

manveruppd.7601:

AFAIK engis are always complaining about their pulls as well so it’s not just Grasp. It’s the same problem as golem charge I think, movement skills just stall if there’s the tiniest bump in the terrain. Except for a rare few that actually lift the user slightly above the ground like ranger’s Swoop. Even that doesn’t always work, but it’s better. They should just make all of them work like that, both pulls and move skills.

They would complain even more if magnet pull could just be juked like spectral grasp can. You have to dodge magnet pull or somehow get out of range. It’s even unblockable so it forces dodges or cooldowns if it doesn’t connect. Plus they can actually use stealth and negate any animation at all, which is something I do on my engi a lot.

How about a trait that would add pulls to wells?
Or add pull to staff marks.
Or add pull to AoE weapon skills.
Or add pull to plague form.

Or a trait that replaces fears with pulls?

Swamurabi.7890:

How about a trait that would add pulls to wells?
Or add pull to staff marks.
Or add pull to AoE weapon skills.
Or add pull to plague form.

Or a trait that replaces fears with pulls?

How about a trait that actually changes the way that a skill is used instead of just giving the same skill a freebie bonus for no real reason that players now have to passively counter? How about making things like staff marks and wells NOT the same mechanic copy pasted 4 times over? Honestly, just read https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-good-necromancer/first#post5026965 a necromancer which accommodates player movement, positioning and support options.

If dhuumfire doesn’t get extra stacks make it apply burn on AA staff it’s losing condition efficiency.