Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand why necros can’t have something unique. That something unique was supposed to be fear, but ANet gave it out to other classes and made their version better.

Mesmers have distortion. Engineers have Elixir S. Guardians have knock down fields that prevent people from passing through them. Warriors have “charge” abilities. Thieves have no cool downs on any of their weapon abilities. Elementalists have summonable weapons. Rangers have a form of regeneration that cannot be removed (not considered a boon) and stacks with the regeneration boon.

Why can’t necros have a condition that no other class can have? There is really no unikittenfect (whats going on here? Why is unique placed next to the word effect invoking the filter?) or skill that belongs to the necromancer. Mechanically speaking, marks are just traps that are visible to everyone else. Not really unique.

Kravick.4906:

I don’t understand why necros can’t have something unique. That something unique was supposed to be fear, but ANet gave it out to other classes and made their version better.

Mesmers have distortion. Engineers have Elixir S. Guardians have knock down fields that prevent people from passing through them. Warriors have “charge” abilities. Thieves have no cool downs on any of their weapon abilities. Elementalists have summonable weapons. Rangers have a form of regeneration that cannot be removed (not considered a boon) and stacks with the regeneration boon.

Why can’t necros have a condition that no other class can have? There is really no unikittenfect (whats going on here? Why is unique placed next to the word effect invoking the filter?) or skill that belongs to the necromancer. Mechanically speaking, marks are just traps that are visible to everyone else. Not really unique.

THIS
And don’t forget that it will be our 5th DS skill!!! So double teasing!

Kravick.4906:

I don’t understand why necros can’t have something unique. That something unique was supposed to be fear, but ANet gave it out to other classes and made their version better.

Mesmers have distortion. Engineers have Elixir S. Guardians have knock down fields that prevent people from passing through them. Warriors have “charge” abilities. Thieves have no cool downs on any of their weapon abilities. Elementalists have summonable weapons. Rangers have a form of regeneration that cannot be removed (not considered a boon) and stacks with the regeneration boon.

Why can’t necros have a condition that no other class can have? There is really no unikittenfect (whats going on here? Why is unique placed next to the word effect invoking the filter?) or skill that belongs to the necromancer. Mechanically speaking, marks are just traps that are visible to everyone else. Not really unique.

Ähm…. I think deathshroud is unique

“Why is unique placed next to the word effect invoking the filter?”

Ahahahahah…and now we have the name for the new condition. Tremble in fear at the gaseous stench of the dead!

Since we already have wide access to damaging conditions (except burn), I’d like to see a more “tactical” condition, something that hinders the effectiveness of enemies in combat… Something like ‘counter-haste’ would be cool, think of Shadow of Fear in gw1.
Or, alternatively, something that makes foes unable to get boons, since boon hate is so popular these days: like Shadow Shroud.

I hope they give us a complete new condition: not another damaging one or some cripple/chill derivate.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Keep in mind that we are trying to find a condition that can be used by multiple classes (doesn’t have to be all classes, but we like to keep the condies/boons low in the game so that it’s easy for players to learn) and something that has cool play for the caster, as well as the target.

So, with that in mind, keep the ideas flowing!

~J

Something slightly unrelated, but it’s about conditions too, and it kinda bothers me.

Are you guys happy with how vulnerability works and how it scales? Personally, I find it to be nearly useless/ unsatisfying most of the times when playing solo, yet it puts an entire zerg dealing +25% damage against any opponent. The condition scales twice for each extra player: 1) because the more players there are, the more people are inflicting it, which is the norm for any condition; but also 2) because it benefits every single player as long as an zerg is attacking the same target. This makes it nearly pointless when playing solo and inflicting 1 stack of vuln. here and there, and extremely strong when a zerg can maintain 25 stacks infinitely. It scales incredibly high.

In my opinion, vulnerability would be more interesting if it was a reversed protection. Fixed armor penalty, low duration, duration stacking. This would become more relevant to solo players who inflict 1 stack or 2 every once and then, all the while zergs would have a much more difficult time in maintaining it (plus, the fixed damage boost could be lower than 25%, like a 20% or 15% increase). This way, inflicting vulnerability with, say, an elementalist in water or a mesmer with mh sword, would actually lead to visible and satisfying results and skill combinations. Mesmer’s sword could inflict 1 second or 2 each hit, so that its auto-attack + clones could be comboed for a tight blurred frenzy damage increase; while something like scepter’s shatterstone (lasting some 4 seconds or so) would be a worthwhile skill to use before initiating the fire sequence.

This would feel like an almost new condition to me, and you could even have some anti-bunker side effect into it. Something like:

Vulnerability: Targets takes 10% more damage, and has a 25% chance to be hit regardless of blocking/ damage immunity.

Or something you deem fit for anti-bunker.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Keep in mind that we are trying to find a condition that can be used by multiple classes (doesn’t have to be all classes, but we like to keep the condies/boons low in the game so that it’s easy for players to learn) and something that has cool play for the caster, as well as the target.

So, if multiple classes have access to it, why do you call it unique again?

“Are you guys happy with how vulnerability works and how it scales?”

It’s pointless to me except in a minion build.

Solo….applications of conditions don’t kill people, applying damage does. Against good players the window you have to apply damage in is usually very small so doubling your damage application cycles to apply at most 25% more damage is not a good return on opportunity investment to me.

The zerg…who cares if vulnerability increases damage for each member of a zerg, if you focus most people 3v1 they go down in a hurry anyway. In a teamfight where you are using it to punch through a strong layered defense I still feel you run into the lack of opportunity cost on return in 1), and a condition stack is easily cleansed.

Minion builds…this is probably the best use of it, but even with minions, I still feel the opportunity cost to apply stacks is high. I’m not a big minion fan though so I can’t speak about this very well.

Vulnerability does very little for me at all as a conditionmancer, it only affects direct damage, which is a small portion of my overall DPS. In small team sized fights it helps the most, for your team, but in zergs, you really don’t need it, stuff drops fast anyway, and you are better off just putting out your damage first.

There is one hex in GW1 that would be fun to see in GW2 as a condition; Winter’s Embrace.

How it would work in GW2;
When a target is moving whilst chilled, they take damage for every second they are moving.

Proposed name for it in GW2 would be; Frost Bite or something akin to that.

Dirame.8521:

There is one hex in GW1 that would be fun to see in GW2 as a condition; Winter’s Embrace.

How it would work in GW2;
When a target is moving whilst chilled, they take damage.

That would make one of my Necromancer builds beyond overpowered.

Shimdroid.2765:

Since we already have wide access to damaging conditions (except burn), I’d like to see a more “tactical” condition, something that hinders the effectiveness of enemies in combat… Something like ‘counter-haste’ would be cool, think of Shadow of Fear in gw1.
Or, alternatively, something that makes foes unable to get boons, since boon hate is so popular these days: like Shadow Shroud.

I hope they give us a complete new condition: not another damaging one or some cripple/chill derivate.

I like these ideas.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Dirame.8521:

There is one hex in GW1 that would be fun to see in GW2 as a condition; Winter’s Embrace.

How it would work in GW2;
When a target is moving whilst chilled, they take damage.

That would make one of my Necromancer builds beyond overpowered.

Well, doesn’t that depend on the damage it does and how long the condition lasts?

Doesn’t matter. It could tick for 1 damage and It’d still be overpowered.

Nah just kidding, anything about 200 though and people would be crying for nerfs just because of me.

Yea I think they said they wanted something similar to poison that wouldn’t deal a lot of damage but have a side effect.

But yea, using Chill + Winter’s Embrace +Fear = Fun Fun Fun.

How about this condition? Gives 25 stacks each of all boons (adjust to be simply “many boons” if you prefer) to enemy until purged/timer runs out.

This gives both sides a dilemma:

1. The boons make them very susceptible to warrior boon hate/thief boon stealing.
2. Makes the enemy very very powerful, but if they cure the condition, they lose all the boons.

Svarty.8019:

How about this condition: Gives 25 stacks each of all boons to enemy until purged/timer runs out.

This gives both sides a dilemma:

1. The boons make them very susceptible to warrior boon hate.
2. Makes the enemy very very powerful, but if they cure the condition, they lose all the boons.

I don’t know if you’re serious, but… There are 9 boons in this game: Warriors will get a talent which increases damage for 3%/boon, netting a 27%. With protection, they’ll do -6% damage instead of -33%, so at least you’d want to give them a single stack of every boon outside of protection, to let warriors reach +24%.

Ashur.6403:

I keep seeing ideas for more damage from a condition, honestly condition builds don’t need more damage.

Well, the Devs did say specifically they were wanting a new DoT condition…

I actually really like the idea of the anti-quickness condition someone mentioned. Dealing moderate damage (like poison) and increases cast times by 33% sound good? Call it “Whither” or something.

Of course, this would be horribly devastating on Necros, but it should bring dev attention to the fact our cast times are too kitten long.

I think that adding stuff like reversed-protection (the vulnerability suggestion I posted above), reversed-quickness (slow, numb, whatever you may want to call it), and stuff like that is a good way to add more conditions without overwhelming the player with memory issues.

Why? Because the player won’t have to memorize two effects for each condition/ boon pair. Instead, they’ll memorize a single effect, and understand that there’s a positive version (a boon) and a negative version (a condition) for that effect. This already kinda happens, but sometimes the difference is too big (for example, vulnerability is mostly pointless except in zergs, protection is awesome, so it’s ahrd to associate one with the other).

And with this mind of thinking, we could very well get a reversed-stability as well. Have it work like GW1’s daze, where you are easily interrupted and/ or your casting time is increased (I guess the later one would be too similar to a reversed-quickness version).

I’m still a fan of a suggestion I saw regarding a condition that damages people based on their movement. Similar to how confusion damages people as they use skills, this condition would damage people as they take steps. Stand still and you don’t get damaged, try to kite or run and you start incurring damage.

This helps solve the problem of necromancers having trouble with keeping up with other professions without giving them more mobility (which devs seems to want to avoid). this also adds a control mechanic and a choice of those inflicted. Finally, with the exception of dragon style bosses, this is effective in PvP, WvW, and PvE.

Call it “arthritis” or “stiffness” or “rigor mortis” or something to that effect.

I think it might be something like Disease from GW1.
A DoT condition, that spreads from one foe to another when they are close to each other.
Maybe some dark flame because it is Death Shroud but who knows…

Something like the old disease might be insanely op in wvw… Each player affected spreads it to 5 other players, and in less than 10 seconds, you have an entire zerg affected with disease. Would be cool, but i think it wouldn’t last a day before being removed.

Well, it may stack then. First foe gets 10 stacks of Disease, foes around get half of that (5), third wave gets only 2 or 3, last one gets only 1 and the infection stops.
The more stacks the target has, the more damage it suffers and it also becomes more contagious.

I think a condition which every second converts an enemy boon into a condition or just removes a boon would be cool.

Or perhaps a condition which means the opponent cannot crit.

I would enjoy a skill that steals enemy boons, making the necro an even more effective boon removal class.

Damage per movement would be cool, but could be OP in pvp, as movement is a crucial part of the game. It would maybe need a low duration (or low damage) there.

Disease could be an excellent anti-zerg tool for wvw or pve’s events, and is worth considering. For pvp, it would punish team playing, which is weird, but maybe also worth considering, for, say, a bunker necro that needs to fight versus 2 players. It would make a bunker necro build be unique versus other profession’s bunkers.

Everyone wanted a scythe, so why not a spectral scythe that swings in an arc doing some regular damage and leaves a DoT as well? Id love to see another reason for me to want to use DS in regular fights other than for the health or skill#4.

Draehl.2681:

Decay: Deals condition damage every second. Additional damage is dealt to the target when a condition expires or is removed.

I like this, for a secondary effect: halves the duration of boons (by increasing the rate they decay at).

While we’re on the subject of Weapon based DS skills lets not make 5 weapon specific, lets make skills 1 and 2 weapon specific, going one step further where applicable make it so that skill 1 is dependant on main hand and 2 on the off-hand. The main reason for this is that the 1 and 2 skills have the lowest cool-down so you’d use them more in DS.

Personally, I’ve always wanted Death Shroud to act more like switching attunements so you’d get five skills based on your weapon selection but 1 and 2 are better than none.

Svarty.8019:

How about this condition? Gives 25 stacks each of all boons (adjust to be simply “many boons” if you prefer) to enemy until purged/timer runs out.

This gives both sides a dilemma:

1. The boons make them very susceptible to warrior boon hate/thief boon stealing.
2. Makes the enemy very very powerful, but if they cure the condition, they lose all the boons.

This condition would naturally be followed by Corrupt Boon.

Heres 10 ideas. (sure some have been said before, but i’m just making a list.)

1. Condition that is a lifesteal dot.
2. Condition that hurts those around the target as well as the target.
3. Condition that cannot be removed. (or removing results in a further punishment)
4. Condition that increases in damage the longer its on a target.
5. Condition that does more damage if the target moves. (good for necro)
6. Condition that spreads to nearby targets.
7. Condition that spawns a minion if target dies while infected.
8. Condition that spawns a minion after a certain duration.
9. Condition that does more damage for each other condition on target.
10. Condition that punishes player for boons. (maybe more damage per boon, or eats boons)

Pifil and Draehl, you just gave me an idea based on your ideas!

Decay; Reduces the duration of boons by 33%, every time the target gains a boon, they take damage. Acts like immobilize where you can’t stack the duration unless you layer them on top of one another at the end of the duration.

Dirame.8521:

Pifil and Draehl, you just gave me an idea based on your ideas!

Decay; Reduces the duration of boons by 33%, every time the target gains a boon, they take damage. Acts like immobilize where you can’t stack the duration unless you layer them on top of one another at the end of the duration.

Question, if the boon is applied by somebody else, who is punished? Would the applier be punished (opening the window to the complaint that the applier can’t always see what conditions people have and therefore could not prepare for the damage) or would the recipient be punished (opening the argument that somebody else applied a boon that they didn’t want and just killed them)?

The other option is to only damage outgoing boons (whether on self or others), but then boons applied by friendly Guardians would not be effected and the condition becomes much less useful.

Invictus.1503:

Dirame.8521:

Pifil and Draehl, you just gave me an idea based on your ideas!

Decay; Reduces the duration of boons by 33%, every time the target gains a boon, they take damage. Acts like immobilize where you can’t stack the duration unless you layer them on top of one another at the end of the duration.

Question, if the boon is applied by somebody else, who is punished? Would the applier be punished (opening the window to the complaint that the applier can’t always see what conditions people have and therefore could not prepare for the damage) or would the recipient be punished (opening the argument that somebody else applied a boon that they didn’t want and just killed them)?

The other option is to only damage outgoing boons (whether on self or others), but then boons applied by friendly Guardians would not be effected and the condition becomes much less useful.

I was thinking it would affect all boons applied to the target, from friends or self but the more I think about it, the more I realize it would be good in high level play but a bit OP in low level play because of the lack of communication.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Doesn’t matter. It could tick for 1 damage and It’d still be overpowered.

Nah just kidding, anything about 200 though and people would be crying for nerfs just because of me.

200 DPS, while a chilled is up, while the opp is moving (totally avoidable), being chilled a low duration condition is OP to you?

Actually its a great idea. It improves our attrition skills.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Awesome ideas guys. Just wanted you to know we’re watching/listening to your ideas for things that fit GW2.

Keep in mind that we are trying to find a condition that can be used by multiple classes (doesn’t have to be all classes, but we like to keep the condies/boons low in the game so that it’s easy for players to learn) and something that has cool play for the caster, as well as the target.

So, with that in mind, keep the ideas flowing!

~J

Do you guys already have idea’s in mind? Or are you looking only at the player base for ideas? Is there no way you can tell us what your ideas are? Since this condi seems to be in its planning stage and you are already looking towards the player base for inspiration maybe we can help critique what you guys have in mind before it goes live?

Couple of good ideas in here, keep it up One thing though, if the condition has to be accessible to other professions it’s going to be hard to follow themes like Disease and Plague. I think with the confusion nerfs the Mesmer would be the logical candidate to share this condition with, so it’s good to keep that in mind.

I was thinking about something along the lines of Enfeeble, reduce target stats by 10% while it’s active and knocks the target down when it runs out or gets cleansed. Or maybe daze target for ¼ second each time he cleanses a condition. This could tick somewhere between poison and burning.

A Necromancer themed condition I would love to have is Pending Doom, target gets 5 stacks each second and takes damage equal to the number of stacks on target, whenever it reaches 25 stacks or gets cleansed. If it damages when it reached 25 it knocks the target down.

An Acid based condition could be cool too, maybe something that damages inanimate objects because this is a huge problem for condition based classes at the moment. As well as sharing the bleed cap with other players, but this is something for another thread :X

How about combining these two classic gw1 hex’s to make a condition. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reckless_Haste
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Price_of_Failure

So how about reduced cast times (like a weaker quickness) but if attacks are blocked, dodged or they miss then they take damage. This Would allow for pretty cool team mechanics. Stack blind to get get maximum damage. Time dodges and have a guardian aegis spam. Glancing blows could also trigger the damage so weakness would be useful aswell.

I’d like a condition like what I remember from DotA (not played in years though), something like:

After X seconds, target is returned to where they originally were when the spell was initially cast, and is dazed for 0.5 seconds (or something). The teleport wouldn’t be affected by invulnerability etc but it wouldn’t remove it either.

Or

Unholy Inversion (something like that im bad with names)

While this is in effect, the affect of boons and conditions on a target are reversed (bleed/burn heals, vuln reduces damage, stability doubles knockdown/stun etc, protection is 33% increased damage) – can be traited to reduce the benefit/increase the negatives maybe.

I like disease, goes with the necro theme better than acid. Instead of spreading to others (we have epidemic for that) I suggest the following.

It could be a progressive dot, starts small and gets more damage the longer it persists, and randomly spawns other 1 sec conditions (symptoms).

mrmadhaze.8706:

So now this is the question:
Why something for multiples classes when you can build a unique mechanic fo necros? expecially if this new one will be in our Death Shround, that is OUR speciality, and is not an utility skill.
Do you think to improve it for others like a simple skill or more like a combo?

Because they want to keep the number of boons/conditions relatively small (as in, not the ridiculous hex/enchantment system). That means while it might not be super accessible by other classes(fear is only accessible to 3 classes, 2 of which have very limited access), it will still keep the condi # down, instead of every single class getting multiple of their own conditions, basically reinstating the old hex system.

Bhawb.7408:

mrmadhaze.8706:

So now this is the question:
Why something for multiples classes when you can build a unique mechanic fo necros? expecially if this new one will be in our Death Shround, that is OUR speciality, and is not an utility skill.
Do you think to improve it for others like a simple skill or more like a combo?

Because they want to keep the number of boons/conditions relatively small (as in, not the ridiculous hex/enchantment system). That means while it might not be super accessible by other classes(fear is only accessible to 3 classes, 2 of which have very limited access), it will still keep the condi # down, instead of every single class getting multiple of their own conditions, basically reinstating the old hex system.

Fear is on 4 classes: Necro, Thief, Warrior, and Ranger. Thiefs have to steal from a necro (or associated enemy in PvE) and Rangers have to have either a wolf or a shark pet. Necros and Warriors are the only ones that can get it on their skill bar (what I believe you meant to say).

necros should get a condition thats like bleed but better

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Fear is on 4 classes: Necro, Thief, Warrior, and Ranger. Thiefs have to steal from a necro (or associated enemy in PvE) and Rangers have to have either a wolf or a shark pet. Necros and Warriors are the only ones that can get it on their skill bar (what I believe you meant to say).

Basically (forgot about rangers). Necros have overwhelming access to fear (plus traits to improve it), but it is still accessible at least in part by other classes. Stealth is somewhat similar (mostly thieves, but there is minimal access by Mesmers).

Daddy.1825:

necros should get a condition thats like bleed but better

So, Burning?

Why not a condition that does nothing on its own but improves the effectiveness of other conditions on the target?

That would make for a great opener, and since it will most likely be death shroud based, it gives you more of an incentive to use death shroud if you are a condition build necro (normally you would use death shroud after having applied blood is power to make good use of that extra might), but in this case you will be stuck with a choice where you either start the fight with death shroud to improve the rest of your DoTs on the target (could work well with the teleport ability to close in on some distance) or you could just start a fight as per usual and apply the new condition later on after having benefited from the 10 stacks of might

of course this means that the additional effects from your conditions are only applied after you used your new condition on the target, if it affected conditions that were already on the target before you applied the new condition, then everyone would apply it later on and leave it at that, making it less fun

It s probably an idea already posted. Just so you know I would prefer a condition that deals damage based on existing conditions on the target, either by number or by the damage of those conditions. I want it to be short, with a long cooldown, and impactful. This solves the problem of condition cap in dungeons or world events. It will give the necro some burst, and may need to be toned down a bit in PvP/WvW.

Dont know about the rest of you guys but i am putting my commander necro to the fridge.
You might find it nice that minions got hp,and that epidemic is now unblockable etc but i dont.
A few minor cosmetic changes cant fix a month of unfair repair bills.
And i dont want to even go back ingame to check if the downed hp bug is still there.
One extra month with it is already too much to even imagine it,especially now that everyone knows about it and focus necros down first.

@grave wrong thread, this is about a new condition for death shroud. Please try to stay on subject.

I, too, have long hoped Necromancer would get a unique condition but it does not look like it will happen.

Posted on another thread, I suggested a condition that reduces precision and/or power. This “Fever” would degrade dps, especially crit rate, for a several seconds and act as a defensive, rather than offensive, condition. For example, subtracting 150 precision in a 300 AoE for 4 seconds with a 1 sec cast time.

The only thing bugging me with this new condition is this: I want my DS #5 to be a necro DS skill, not a condition.

Now this skill might put a condition that will not be unique, but it must give us something else too. Else are other professions master of the Dark arts too?

So it’s kind of hard to suggest a skill that grants a condition accessible to all class, but with a Death Shroud background.

Hope we can get both sides of the coin!