Guild Wars 2

People aren’t gonna accept that this isn’t a nerf because they don’t want to change how they had their reapers built. They can be just effective, but that requires change, and if there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is most people hate change. They’ll eventually get over it, accept that chill damage isn’t coming back (and was a dumb idea to begin with), and move on, especially if they want to stay relevant, but it will be a few months… probably after the summer update gives them something new to gripe about.

bearshaman.3421:

People aren’t gonna accept that this isn’t a nerf because they don’t want to change how they had their reapers built. They can be just effective, but that requires change, and if there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is most people hate change. They’ll eventually get over it, accept that chill damage isn’t coming back (and was a dumb idea to begin with), and move on, especially if they want to stay relevant, but it will be a few months… probably after the summer update gives them something new to gripe about.

Necro (condi) got directly nerfed. If there was a change we could make to be just as good as before, we’d have been doing it before…. And no, the power changes didn’t put it on par with ore-patch condi, so what you said is wrong.

It feels like a nerd because a GM trait got turned into literal garbage, away from what was once a fun (though tuning needed to be done) spec to play. They didn’t just nerf the damage, they nerfed chill durations, and that chill nerf had a domino effect onto other skills such as “CttB!” that no longer feel like they pack the punch they once did. The reason everyone took this trait in the first place was because they destroyed Blighter’s Boon and Onslaught sucks for pvp.

It doesn’t feel like a nerf, it was a nerf. And a nerf isn’t the problem, it was over nerfed for anyone able to do simple (but realistic) math, especially in PvP which got hit both on raw damage, instant pressure/build up, and damage being drawn out over longer periods, thus more likely to be removed. It’s actually pretty huge.

But anyways, it’s an easy fix, other Necromancer problems aren’t quite as easy, and so far, it doesn’t look like they want to take the time to make larger changes right now.

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

Flumek.9043:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

And before they could cleanse the chill. I don’t see how that’s an argument.

bearshaman.3421:

Flumek.9043:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

And before they could cleanse the chill. I don’t see how that’s an argument.

Chill wasn’t our “other” primary damage set, was instant (did more damage up front, and didn’t need stacked every time to deal significant damage) pressure. Our chills also last less time making it easier to remove bleeds. I have a hard time seeing how anyone thinks this isn’t a massive nerf… It’s very logical and simple. o.O

ronpierce.2760:

bearshaman.3421:

Flumek.9043:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

And before they could cleanse the chill. I don’t see how that’s an argument.

Chill wasn’t our “other” primary damage set, was instant (did more damage up front, and didn’t need stacked every time to deal significant damage) pressure. Our chills also last less time making it easier to remove bleeds. I have a hard time seeing how anyone thinks this isn’t a massive nerf… It’s very logical and simple. o.O

But before if they cleansed, they removed the chill AND the damage. Now they have to remove 2 conditions instead of one to get rid of all the suck they are dealing with.

I am only addressing DC btw. I recognize that the reduced durations are a nerf. I’m not stupid, I’m just focused on the one trait right now.

Edit: Maybe I haven’t been clear on that. Yes, the duration reduction is a nerf. Obviously. As is the stability thing. I don’t disagree about those. I do think our uptime for chill was previously insane (we had a ton of it, lets be honest). Whether they duration nerfs were excessive, I haven’t tested that part out yet.

bearshaman.3421:

ronpierce.2760:

bearshaman.3421:

Flumek.9043:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

And before they could cleanse the chill. I don’t see how that’s an argument.

Chill wasn’t our “other” primary damage set, was instant (did more damage up front, and didn’t need stacked every time to deal significant damage) pressure. Our chills also last less time making it easier to remove bleeds. I have a hard time seeing how anyone thinks this isn’t a massive nerf… It’s very logical and simple. o.O

But before if they cleansed, they removed the chill AND the damage. Now they have to remove 2 conditions instead of one to get rid of all the suck they are dealing with.

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

ronpierce.2760:

bearshaman.3421:

Flumek.9043:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

And before they could cleanse the chill. I don’t see how that’s an argument.

Chill wasn’t our “other” primary damage set, was instant (did more damage up front, and didn’t need stacked every time to deal significant damage) pressure. Our chills also last less time making it easier to remove bleeds. I have a hard time seeing how anyone thinks this isn’t a massive nerf… It’s very logical and simple. o.O

But before if they cleansed, they removed the chill AND the damage. Now they have to remove 2 conditions instead of one to get rid of all the suck they are dealing with.

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

Wrong. Before they just need to cleanse chill to remove chill damage. I think chill gets removed 1st (someone please verify) now if they remove chill bleed still does damage. Now fear hits with 4 conditions to help cover the damage. I still would rather see Torment instead of bleed but it’s not as bad as I initially thought. I think I’m going to make more of a hybrid with some power but chillomancer isn’t dead as far as I’m concerned.

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

The chill effect is still there.. so that’s just not true. Even if they wanted to only cleanse bleed, it’s not like you can choose what condition to remove so that’s irrelevant.
Chill only applied 1 condition before, now it applies 2 so I don’t get why people say it’s easier cleansed, considering that you now basically apply 1 condition extra with all your skills that apply chill, on top of all the other conditions. Which means in a big perspective, your enemy can actually cleanse less conditions in total.

Sun Lian.4075:

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

The chill effect is still there.. so that’s just not true. Even if they wanted to only cleanse bleed, it’s not like you can choose what condition to remove so that’s irrelevant.
Chill only applied 1 condition before, now it applies 2 so I don’t get why people say it’s easier cleansed, considering that you now basically apply 1 condition extra with all your skills that apply chill, on top of all the other conditions. Which means in a big perspective, your enemy can actually cleanse less conditions in total.

Yes the chill effect is still there, but the damage isn’t. Before if they cleansed one, they are still taking damage from the other. Now, if they cleanse bleed, they aren’t taking damage from chill, therefore nerf.
Don’t get me wrong, in PVE this new change to deathly chill is better as multiple necros can stack more damage, but in PVP this is quite a nerf.

Beetamus.6403:

Sun Lian.4075:

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

The chill effect is still there.. so that’s just not true. Even if they wanted to only cleanse bleed, it’s not like you can choose what condition to remove so that’s irrelevant.
Chill only applied 1 condition before, now it applies 2 so I don’t get why people say it’s easier cleansed, considering that you now basically apply 1 condition extra with all your skills that apply chill, on top of all the other conditions. Which means in a big perspective, your enemy can actually cleanse less conditions in total.

Yes the chill effect is still there, but the damage isn’t. Before if they cleansed one, they are still taking damage from the other. Now, if they cleanse bleed, they aren’t taking damage from chill, therefore nerf.
Don’t get me wrong, in PVE this new change to deathly chill is better as multiple necros can stack more damage, but in PVP this is quite a nerf.

What do you mean “the other”? You didn’t apply as much bleed before as you do now, why doesn’t that matter..

You could lay chill on someone for instant, steady damage. Bleed takes 4 to 6 times more landed attacks to stack up. For those bleeds to be dc bleeds that means using skills that apply chill.

With chill you could just re-apply if they cleansed. Not really rocket science and the instant dps is back. Bleed needs re-stacked if cleansed. Doesn’t matter if chill was slightly easier to cleanse as it had instant ramp up and easy to apply again.

I’m still not getting why this is so hard to see. Feels like people are counting every bleed we apply as a dc bleed.

Reh.5986:

You could lay chill on someone for instant, steady damage. Bleed takes 4 to 6 times more landed attacks to stack up. For those bleeds to be dc bleeds that means using skills that apply chill.

With chill you could just re-apply if they cleansed. Not really rocket science and the instant dps is back. Bleed needs re-stacked if cleansed. Doesn’t matter if chill was slightly easier to cleanse as it had instant ramp up and easy to apply again.

I’m still not getting why this is so hard to see. Feels like people are counting every bleed we apply as a dc bleed.

No not every bleed is from DC, but I think because of the way bleed works you do kind of have to take other bleed effects into account as well.

If a trait such as DC affects bleed and that condition stacks and you’re using more skills that apply bleed, you should look at your overall bleed damage and how you can make it better. Because that’s what it is about when you take several traits, skills, runes, sigils whatever that affect one thing, it’s not about how much damage those chilling skills do compared to before. Chill and bleed have different synergy.
Atleast that’s what I do because I think about why and how I’m gonna use a trait..

Sun Lian.4075:

Beetamus.6403:

Sun Lian.4075:

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

The chill effect is still there.. so that’s just not true. Even if they wanted to only cleanse bleed, it’s not like you can choose what condition to remove so that’s irrelevant.
Chill only applied 1 condition before, now it applies 2 so I don’t get why people say it’s easier cleansed, considering that you now basically apply 1 condition extra with all your skills that apply chill, on top of all the other conditions. Which means in a big perspective, your enemy can actually cleanse less conditions in total.

Yes the chill effect is still there, but the damage isn’t. Before if they cleansed one, they are still taking damage from the other. Now, if they cleanse bleed, they aren’t taking damage from chill, therefore nerf.
Don’t get me wrong, in PVE this new change to deathly chill is better as multiple necros can stack more damage, but in PVP this is quite a nerf.

What do you mean “the other”? You didn’t apply as much bleed before as you do now, why doesn’t that matter..

Bcause now you apply more bleed (2 stacks op) and they cleanse it anyway, so it doesnt matter at all. Chill doesnt matter either compared to pre-nerf.

Sun Lian.4075:

Reh.5986:

You could lay chill on someone for instant, steady damage. Bleed takes 4 to 6 times more landed attacks to stack up. For those bleeds to be dc bleeds that means using skills that apply chill.

With chill you could just re-apply if they cleansed. Not really rocket science and the instant dps is back. Bleed needs re-stacked if cleansed. Doesn’t matter if chill was slightly easier to cleanse as it had instant ramp up and easy to apply again.

I’m still not getting why this is so hard to see. Feels like people are counting every bleed we apply as a dc bleed.

No not every bleed is from DC, but I think because of the way bleed works you do kind of have to take other bleed effects into account as well.

If a trait such as DC affects bleed and that condition stacks and you’re using more skills that apply bleed, you should look at your overall bleed damage and how you can make it better. Because that’s what it is about when you take several traits, skills, runes, sigils whatever that affect one thing, it’s not about how much damage those chilling skills do compared to before. Chill and bleed have different synergy.
Atleast that’s what I do because I think about why and how I’m gonna use a trait..

I could totally see this if the trait actually modified bleed. A damage modifier like thief has for poison, for example, and I’m not sure anyone would be complaining about this. It would actually be pretty solid and build defining.

Flumek.9043:

Tim.6450:

What I actually haven’t heard is from that most people justity the nerf by stating that you just need to combo RS#5 and RS#4 to get a decent return back. But isn’t that in itself a nerf because you have to input more to get the same result? You can’t use that whirl finsiher for something else. What about someone who actually combo’s RS#4 with another field isn’kitten nerf to them because they will not get their return in bleeds back since they didn’t combo the ice field?

Thats logic and we have a freedom not to believe in it.

Best forum post 2016 right here.

Akrasia.5469:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

ronpierce.2760:

bearshaman.3421:

Flumek.9043:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

And before they could cleanse the chill. I don’t see how that’s an argument.

Chill wasn’t our “other” primary damage set, was instant (did more damage up front, and didn’t need stacked every time to deal significant damage) pressure. Our chills also last less time making it easier to remove bleeds. I have a hard time seeing how anyone thinks this isn’t a massive nerf… It’s very logical and simple. o.O

But before if they cleansed, they removed the chill AND the damage. Now they have to remove 2 conditions instead of one to get rid of all the suck they are dealing with.

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

Wrong. Before they just need to cleanse chill to remove chill damage. I think chill gets removed 1st (someone please verify) now if they remove chill bleed still does damage. Now fear hits with 4 conditions to help cover the damage. I still would rather see Torment instead of bleed but it’s not as bad as I initially thought. I think I’m going to make more of a hybrid with some power but chillomancer isn’t dead as far as I’m concerned.

Since everyone seemed to have ignored this, I’ll reply so you can read it again.

Beetamus.6403:

Sun Lian.4075:

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

The chill effect is still there.. so that’s just not true. Even if they wanted to only cleanse bleed, it’s not like you can choose what condition to remove so that’s irrelevant.
Chill only applied 1 condition before, now it applies 2 so I don’t get why people say it’s easier cleansed, considering that you now basically apply 1 condition extra with all your skills that apply chill, on top of all the other conditions. Which means in a big perspective, your enemy can actually cleanse less conditions in total.

Yes the chill effect is still there, but the damage isn’t. Before if they cleansed one, they are still taking damage from the other. Now, if they cleanse bleed, they aren’t taking damage from chill, therefore nerf.
Don’t get me wrong, in PVE this new change to deathly chill is better as multiple necros can stack more damage, but in PVP this is quite a nerf.

I suspect this is less a PvE/PvP thing, and more a power/condi thing, as I saw this trait used a lot on power builds before, and now it probably will only get used on condi builds, which I’m pretty sure was what was intended from the beginning.

bearshaman.3421:

Akrasia.5469:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

ronpierce.2760:

bearshaman.3421:

Flumek.9043:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

And before they could cleanse the chill. I don’t see how that’s an argument.

Chill wasn’t our “other” primary damage set, was instant (did more damage up front, and didn’t need stacked every time to deal significant damage) pressure. Our chills also last less time making it easier to remove bleeds. I have a hard time seeing how anyone thinks this isn’t a massive nerf… It’s very logical and simple. o.O

But before if they cleansed, they removed the chill AND the damage. Now they have to remove 2 conditions instead of one to get rid of all the suck they are dealing with.

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

Wrong. Before they just need to cleanse chill to remove chill damage. I think chill gets removed 1st (someone please verify) now if they remove chill bleed still does damage. Now fear hits with 4 conditions to help cover the damage. I still would rather see Torment instead of bleed but it’s not as bad as I initially thought. I think I’m going to make more of a hybrid with some power but chillomancer isn’t dead as far as I’m concerned.

Since everyone seemed to have ignored this, I’ll reply so you can read it again.

If they manage to cleanse the bleed (hint full condi clears or classes with crazy cleanse) you have to start all over on dc bleeds without cooldowns. Before you’d just throw another chill on and be good to go.

Chill getting cleansed really wasn’t much of an issue except on classes with traits that made it crazy easy (daredevil) because there was literally no ramp up time and one or two ticks actually did some damage.

Meh guess I should just give up on this lol. Condi reapers are ok to hug now lol.

I haven’t done the math on it yet, but I’m curious: if they hadn’t nerfed duration of ice field and number of whirl finishers on Reaper’s Shroud 4&5, would we be able to stack bleeds to do more damage than we could with chill before?

manveruppd.7601:

I haven’t done the math on it yet, but I’m curious: if they hadn’t nerfed duration of ice field and number of whirl finishers on Reaper’s Shroud 4&5, would we be able to stack bleeds to do more damage than we could with chill before?

11 bleed stacks, so prob. You could then really condi burst someone by seting up some weapon swaps+DS5&4, which would be an acceptable nerf. As it is now, you need to adapt your build and force some combos just to temporarily achieve the same dmg as before.

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Right, obviously we’re talking about PvP/WvW here.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Bleed on chill is only a buff in PvE team fights against major bosses when running a condition damage build.

Anchoku.8142:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Bleed on chill is only a buff in PvE team fights against major bosses when running a condition damage build.

A condition trait is a good in a condition build, what surprise. It was never a good trait on power builds to begin with imo, it was just the best choice we had as power. You also have access to chill field + whirl finisher on your own and long fights is the only place where this mattered anyway.

gavyne.6847:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Right, obviously we’re talking about PvP/WvW here.

Expecting traits to conform to pvp/wvw and not pve is another reason they need to split the skills between the two. All this current situation does is pit pve players against pvp/wvw players.

Anchoku.8142:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Bleed on chill is only a buff in PvE team fights against major bosses when running a condition damage build.

Do pve people actually bother to switch to staff/shroud or do they just camp scepter? Thought most of their bleed came through minions and scepter? I honestly don’t know but curious as I thought about gearing my necro for raids instead of WVW.

Reh.5986:

Anchoku.8142:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Bleed on chill is only a buff in PvE team fights against major bosses when running a condition damage build.

Do pve people actually bother to switch to staff/shroud or do they just camp scepter? Thought most of their bleed came through minions and scepter? I honestly don’t know but curious as I thought about gearing my necro for raids instead of WVW.

Staff and shroud are both for defense and tagging in a PvE condition damage build.

One of the problems with Necro/Reaper is that condition damage is overwhelmingly dependent upon scepter’s auto-attack. If you build and trait for condition damage, you want to avoid using shroud, staff, and any skills that reduce bleed application rate. After all, there was a lot of sacrifice in terms of equipment stats to gain high condition damage. Scepter builds just always seem squishier because so much defensive and offensive utility was lost setting up for condition damage.

The patch attempted to fix that by making bleeding possible on a wider range of weapons and utilities. Skills with chill and short cast times that do not interfere with scepter AA are fine, though dps seems nerfed compared to dps with chill damage.

Using focus 5, now, is close to a wash because it interrupts scepter AA. Staff is a straight dps loss even with Chillblains proc’ing a bleed. Suffer and Chilled to the Bone give a single long bleed but then go on cool-down.

Dhuumfire and Terror do more damage than the bleeds from chill. This drives the build toward Curses for scepter and Terror, Soul Reaping for Dhuumfire and to help shroud. If you want to go Reaper, then you cannot take Blood Magic or Death Magic, both of which are useful in condition damage builds so you should consider whether the better Reaper is worth taking for its Shroud, greatsword, and shouts rather than for the bleeds.

Give up Soul Reaping for another trait line, like Death Magic for exploding minions, and you will find yourself perpetually low on life force unless you run all shouts as a Reaper. Dhuumfire goes away, too.

Give up Reaper and be stuck with basic Necromancer, Death Shroud, and no extra bleeds.

The trades to get a single bleed on chill, and develop a chill build, require a lot of sacrifices I weigh carefully.

The only time where the new DC is better then the old one is when I use RS5+RS4 and land all hits. And ofc this works only in PvE. This combo now is more bursty then it was before. In every other instance the new DC is weaker then the old one.

Reh.5986:

Anchoku.8142:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Bleed on chill is only a buff in PvE team fights against major bosses when running a condition damage build.

Do pve people actually bother to switch to staff/shroud or do they just camp scepter? Thought most of their bleed came through minions and scepter? I honestly don’t know but curious as I thought about gearing my necro for raids instead of WVW.

Shroud still has the only good movement skill for a necro, soul spiral and exec scythe (the ice field now ticks bleeds and the whirl finisher applies even more)
No need for staff in PvE, though yeah, it’d be good for tagging and I can see it having use in WvW

I use staff/gs in pve, and switch staff for scepter/dagger with bosses.

so – i’ve been playing my reaper for a few days since the update and i believe we are dealing quite a lot of damage still. I run a power build, so maybe i wasn’t the target of these nerfs, but, i still wreck in wvw , especially in the current large-scale meta that’s happening with the alliance system. Not that I didn’t enjoy winning 1v3 before, but, it was ridiculous that i could burn down players so fast in outmanned situations.

Rocket.1723:

so – i’ve been playing my reaper for a few days since the update and i believe we are dealing quite a lot of damage still. I run a power build, so maybe i wasn’t the target of these nerfs, but, i still wreck in wvw , especially in the current large-scale meta that’s happening with the alliance system. Not that I didn’t enjoy winning 1v3 before, but, it was ridiculous that i could burn down players so fast in outmanned situations.

wvw zerg was never the problem…….

yeah power reaper/necro is still an awesome zerg bird. Just have to get on the pirate ship and start flinging wells and marks + stab up and do some reaping when the other blob breaks up.

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Cutting movement speed and skill cool down to 1/3 of normal through perma-chill was too strong. It was taking a big bite out of opponents’ offense and defense, if the condition was not removed almost as soon as it was applied.

I think chill’s soft CC was much more dangerous than the condition damage so durations had to be trimmed.

Also, Necromancer used to be about out-sustaining your bursty opponent so that long bleeds building over time is quite traditional for the profession. Unfortunately, Necromancer still cannot reach condition the levels of condition damage dps other professions can with burn stacking.

bearshaman.3421:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Ofc there are DC builds that work on pvp, but they are still bad compared to the old necro and not wven close to meta.

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Ofc there are DC builds that work on pvp, but they are still bad compared to the old necro and not wven close to meta.

Not according to those that are using them.

bearshaman.3421:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Ofc there are DC builds that work on pvp, but they are still bad compared to the old necro and not wven close to meta.

Not according to those that are using them.

Not my fault they are bad at pvp

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Ofc there are DC builds that work on pvp, but they are still bad compared to the old necro and not wven close to meta.

Not according to those that are using them.

Not my fault they are bad at pvp

Well. Can’t reason with arrogance. I’ll be moving on.

bearshaman.3421:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Ofc there are DC builds that work on pvp, but they are still bad compared to the old necro and not wven close to meta.

Not according to those that are using them.

Not my fault they are bad at pvp

Well. Can’t reason with arrogance. I’ll be moving on.

Its not arrogance, its reality. If theres ppl that prefer to believe that DC wasnt nerfed, gucci for them.

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Ofc there are DC builds that work on pvp, but they are still bad compared to the old necro and not wven close to meta.

Not according to those that are using them.

Not my fault they are bad at pvp

The prob with this change we lost our insta chill dmg for 1k bleed over 10 sec, talking there about pvp cuz we know this is a buff in pve but still very situational, we cant chose to whirl on ice field when people spawn others combo field …

They should have tested better options before proc this version cuz now they wont touch before the end of next pvp league, if they even care about touch it again at all :/

We had some fun with reaper at beta but the elite spe now is not even looking like a elite spe at all.

BB is not working If u dont use reaper with spite which is anti-diversity build and im pretty sure they said they dont want that but do it anyway and the other “GM” option is something working only in WvW and open world so GG dev’s lol

Back to vanilla necro since reaper is lame in its current stats we r used to have fun with something and then its removed right after, the game is disapointing at every patch deal with it.

it is indeed a nerf. it isn’t as bad some people think. i can still put out good numbers and do pretty good damage but nothing like before. i was easily doing 700k to 1 million damage in games. now im doing about 500-600k. and the fights are dragging out just as long as back then. plus now our defense is nerfed a bit too without as much chill uptime. i think the nerf was unjustified. sure we did kitten tons of damage when you let us..but a competent team can easily shut out a necro…as seen in pro leagues. necro always the first to die..being focused down..having to play super defensive..destroying all damage.

Anchoku.8142:

Reh.5986:

Anchoku.8142:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Bleed on chill is only a buff in PvE team fights against major bosses when running a condition damage build.

Do pve people actually bother to switch to staff/shroud or do they just camp scepter? Thought most of their bleed came through minions and scepter? I honestly don’t know but curious as I thought about gearing my necro for raids instead of WVW.

Staff and shroud are both for defense and tagging in a PvE condition damage build.

One of the problems with Necro/Reaper is that condition damage is overwhelmingly dependent upon scepter’s auto-attack. If you build and trait for condition damage, you want to avoid using shroud, staff, and any skills that reduce bleed application rate. After all, there was a lot of sacrifice in terms of equipment stats to gain high condition damage. Scepter builds just always seem squishier because so much defensive and offensive utility was lost setting up for condition damage.

The patch attempted to fix that by making bleeding possible on a wider range of weapons and utilities. Skills with chill and short cast times that do not interfere with scepter AA are fine, though dps seems nerfed compared to dps with chill damage.

Using focus 5, now, is close to a wash because it interrupts scepter AA. Staff is a straight dps loss even with Chillblains proc’ing a bleed. Suffer and Chilled to the Bone give a single long bleed but then go on cool-down.

Dhuumfire and Terror do more damage than the bleeds from chill. This drives the build toward Curses for scepter and Terror, Soul Reaping for Dhuumfire and to help shroud. If you want to go Reaper, then you cannot take Blood Magic or Death Magic, both of which are useful in condition damage builds so you should consider whether the better Reaper is worth taking for its Shroud, greatsword, and shouts rather than for the bleeds.

Give up Soul Reaping for another trait line, like Death Magic for exploding minions, and you will find yourself perpetually low on life force unless you run all shouts as a Reaper. Dhuumfire goes away, too.

Give up Reaper and be stuck with basic Necromancer, Death Shroud, and no extra bleeds.

The trades to get a single bleed on chill, and develop a chill build, require a lot of sacrifices I weigh carefully.

This whole rant is for someone analyzing the build on paper and not understanding dynamic combat. In any gamemode you will have to do more than AA. You have to move, dodge, defend, set up and coordinate with teammates. Certain skills have certain situations when to use them. For example you say Focus 5 is a wash for interrupting scepter AA. Well focus has a 1200 range. I usually open with focus when attacking a single opponent at range. Landing 3 conditions, stipping boons and doing damage before I even engage. Reapers Touch and Spinal Shivers nets a ton of vulnerability and 6.5 seconds of chill 10 seconds of bleed before I’m in scepter AA range. “Suffer” and “Chilled to the Bone!” to renew chills and condis that might have been wiped and I have serious pressure on a target. The flaw in your logic is that your numbers are based on an opponent just standing there letting you AA them to stack bleeds. Having options that adapt the situation is what makes a good build. If I’m dealing with a group Staff 5 can land 4 conditions on their entire group. As they cleanse Suffer, CttB, Chilliblians and my other 3 or 4 sources of chill keeps condition pressure up. The thing is everyone wants to be Superman. They want 1st HIGH DAMAGE 2nd HIGH SUSTAIN usually at the expense of their team. If I’m on a decent team with some good DPS teammates my condi cover wrecks the opponents ability to defend against us. I’m not doing the heavy damage I used to but the scramble players do when hit with 3 and 4 conditions at a time is a major difference in a fight. Do I wish I was the powerhouse I was pre patch? Of course but it’s not a complete loss and there’s room to make it work.

We do need to get a little buffed in the next patch though. Our build options are suffering.

Akrasia.5469:

Anchoku.8142:

Reh.5986:

Anchoku.8142:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Bleed on chill is only a buff in PvE team fights against major bosses when running a condition damage build.

Do pve people actually bother to switch to staff/shroud or do they just camp scepter? Thought most of their bleed came through minions and scepter? I honestly don’t know but curious as I thought about gearing my necro for raids instead of WVW.

Staff and shroud are both for defense and tagging in a PvE condition damage build.

One of the problems with Necro/Reaper is that condition damage is overwhelmingly dependent upon scepter’s auto-attack. If you build and trait for condition damage, you want to avoid using shroud, staff, and any skills that reduce bleed application rate. After all, there was a lot of sacrifice in terms of equipment stats to gain high condition damage. Scepter builds just always seem squishier because so much defensive and offensive utility was lost setting up for condition damage.

The patch attempted to fix that by making bleeding possible on a wider range of weapons and utilities. Skills with chill and short cast times that do not interfere with scepter AA are fine, though dps seems nerfed compared to dps with chill damage.

Using focus 5, now, is close to a wash because it interrupts scepter AA. Staff is a straight dps loss even with Chillblains proc’ing a bleed. Suffer and Chilled to the Bone give a single long bleed but then go on cool-down.

Dhuumfire and Terror do more damage than the bleeds from chill. This drives the build toward Curses for scepter and Terror, Soul Reaping for Dhuumfire and to help shroud. If you want to go Reaper, then you cannot take Blood Magic or Death Magic, both of which are useful in condition damage builds so you should consider whether the better Reaper is worth taking for its Shroud, greatsword, and shouts rather than for the bleeds.

Give up Soul Reaping for another trait line, like Death Magic for exploding minions, and you will find yourself perpetually low on life force unless you run all shouts as a Reaper. Dhuumfire goes away, too.

Give up Reaper and be stuck with basic Necromancer, Death Shroud, and no extra bleeds.

The trades to get a single bleed on chill, and develop a chill build, require a lot of sacrifices I weigh carefully.

This whole rant is for someone analyzing the build on paper and not understanding dynamic combat. In any gamemode you will have to do more than AA. You have to move, dodge, defend, set up and coordinate with teammates. Certain skills have certain situations when to use them. For example you say Focus 5 is a wash for interrupting scepter AA. Well focus has a 1200 range. I usually open with focus when attacking a single opponent at range. Landing 3 conditions, stipping boons and doing damage before I even engage. Reapers Touch and Spinal Shivers nets a ton of vulnerability and 6.5 seconds of chill 10 seconds of bleed before I’m in scepter AA range. “Suffer” and “Chilled to the Bone!” to renew chills and condis that might have been wiped and I have serious pressure on a target. The flaw in your logic is that your numbers are based on an opponent just standing there letting you AA them to stack bleeds. Having options that adapt the situation is what makes a good build. If I’m dealing with a group Staff 5 can land 4 conditions on their entire group. As they cleanse Suffer, CttB, Chilliblians and my other 3 or 4 sources of chill keeps condition pressure up. The thing is everyone wants to be Superman. They want 1st HIGH DAMAGE 2nd HIGH SUSTAIN usually at the expense of their team. If I’m on a decent team with some good DPS teammates my condi cover wrecks the opponents ability to defend against us. I’m not doing the heavy damage I used to but the scramble players do when hit with 3 and 4 conditions at a time is a major difference in a fight. Do I wish I was the powerhouse I was pre patch? Of course but it’s not a complete loss and there’s room to make it work.

We do need to get a little buffed in the next patch though. Our build options are suffering.

focus 5 at 1200range ? fear mark at 1440 ftw, youre 1500 away from me and you ate 2 marks and youre on scepter/focus, gg

Focus 4?
Miss.
Block.
Pebble. Sidestep. Walk-through-you
0 lifeforce
FeelsBadMan

Lets say you land them.
Still FeelsBadMan, theyre so weak anyway.
The chak one looks cool tho.