Guild Wars 2

Aridia.3042:

Durzlla.6295:

In a camp he can just do what he does in all of his other videos where there’s no walls to stop him -_-’ camps are also something us rangers can solo cap, so that’s not something you would be taking with a zerg.

Zergs hit keeps and towers, he was fighting at keeps and towers, he was down on the floor in a bit of his videos and throwing his pet up ONTO the wall. This is a position where he can very easily have been ganked by thieves, or a warrior, etc.

You’re missing the point. If you face someone out in the middle of no where like a camp, you have to make your pet run to him. It’s the travel distance that makes pets pointless against WvW zergs which is why we get all the QQ about not being able to hit moving targets. So no, you’re not going to get the same effect, especially when they have a zerg to focus fire on your pet. You might surprise a few guys with a jag onto a wall, but again, it’s very specific and controlled conditions and not at all indicative of the full gamut of what actually happens in WvW. Putting a jag onto a wall during a mini siege is completely different to making your pet run through fire towards a target.

And I hope you’ve noticed. There was probably hardly anyone in the keep. If there was a real zerg in there, they’ll come out and face roll the whole group and people who wander off. It’s a complete different lvl of threat when you’re attacking a keep vs facing someone in an open field because you know either side will camp the keep until the tide turns in their favor. Until one side moves, it’s pretty tame and there’s no real danger of being swallowed by the zerg.

Not sure what server you play on, but if you play on Tier 1, you often don’t have the luxury to flip camps solo, especially on EB. More than half of the fights involve 2 zergs pew pewing each other until enough foolish people wander off/get over aggressive and get picked off and one side gets overpowered. Which makes claims that you and your pet could flank even more dubious.

Ehhh, I play on T1, on stormbluff…

As for sending your pets into camps, If you’re solo.. and I see you standing in camp, I won’t have to send my pet in, I’ll just rush in and get you myself.

Me sending my pets in my videos are just for my amusement….I certainly don’t think Pets are completely useless either… As you can see from my videos, I use them for specific purposes.

I won’t lie to you though, I’ve seen Rangers who hump zergs, and I seen the ones that basically just let their pets run and die, and it probably does seem like thats how the entire game is to them..they’ve not really explored all the lameness they can do with that pet and just treat it as a dot…

Also being able to come out of the keep is perfectly fine, if you outnumber the people outside, If that happens though I switch to my speed signet and I start backing up… I don’t stand there trying to get my pet inside while we’re bout to be zerged, Thats silly.

Furthermore, which videos did you watch? I showed a few where my pet simply runs up to someone attacking our keep (engineer) and instantly killed him.. and I was on the outside back dooring them.

Here is a problem:

Every time you have to call your pet to avoid any type of heavy damage, you lose dps. Every time you have to swap your pet to avoid heavy damage, you lose dps again.

No other class suffers this. There really isn’t a counter to it, unless the pets are made more durable to take these heavy strikes, without having to trait heavily into BM. You trait heavily into BM, your own dps suffers. It’s a catch 22…

How does one counter this at the moment? I really don’t think it’s possible.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Here is a problem:

Every time you have to call your pet to avoid any type of heavy damage, you lose dps. Every time you have to swap your pet to avoid heavy damage, you lose dps again.

No other class suffers this. There really isn’t a counter to it, unless the pets are made more durable to take these heavy strikes, without having to trait heavily into BM. You trait heavily into BM, your own dps suffers. It’s a catch 22…

How does one counter this at the moment? I really don’t think it’s possible.

I look at it as an advantage, I can trait for Healing/Condition Damage/Toughness…and still have a pet that has his own stats that can Burst people quite easily.

I also think you guys underestimate how much Burst your pet can put out.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Here is a problem:

Every time you have to call your pet to avoid any type of heavy damage, you lose dps. Every time you have to swap your pet to avoid heavy damage, you lose dps again.

No other class suffers this. There really isn’t a counter to it, unless the pets are made more durable to take these heavy strikes, without having to trait heavily into BM. You trait heavily into BM, your own dps suffers. It’s a catch 22…

How does one counter this at the moment? I really don’t think it’s possible.

Well said. I do find my pets somewhat useful in smaller engagements for the CC factor in WvWvW. In larger ones the AOE damage and players specifically targeting my pet make me wish I stored it. In fact, I do the same thing as a ranger myself. When I see enemy pets and specifically target them I can take them down in about 4s max (unless they have SOS). Their limited armor and health make them easy targets.

Now, you can say, “LTP ranger noob, you should be x/x/x/30. If not, don’t whine if your pets dies then”. Well guess what? Why should I be forced to take a trait line just to make my pet viable in certain situations? Pets should be viable right out of the box. Pets still need work.

Xsorus.2507:

DeadlySynz.3471:

Here is a problem:

Every time you have to call your pet to avoid any type of heavy damage, you lose dps. Every time you have to swap your pet to avoid heavy damage, you lose dps again.

No other class suffers this. There really isn’t a counter to it, unless the pets are made more durable to take these heavy strikes, without having to trait heavily into BM. You trait heavily into BM, your own dps suffers. It’s a catch 22…

How does one counter this at the moment? I really don’t think it’s possible.

I look at it as an advantage, I can trait for Healing/Condition Damage/Toughness…and still have a pet that has his own stats that can Burst people quite easily.

I also think you guys underestimate how much Burst your pet can put out.

This, in PvE i spec into pretty much raw defense and am still able to pump out damage via my pet. However, a lot of people (on this forum mostly) like to ignore the pet and pretend they’re not part of our profession.

I’d like to be able to have 3 pets out instead of 1 at a time.

GUFF.5692:

DeadlySynz.3471:

Here is a problem:

Every time you have to call your pet to avoid any type of heavy damage, you lose dps. Every time you have to swap your pet to avoid heavy damage, you lose dps again.

No other class suffers this. There really isn’t a counter to it, unless the pets are made more durable to take these heavy strikes, without having to trait heavily into BM. You trait heavily into BM, your own dps suffers. It’s a catch 22…

How does one counter this at the moment? I really don’t think it’s possible.

Well said. I do find my pets somewhat useful in smaller engagements for the CC factor in WvWvW. In larger ones the AOE damage and players specifically targeting my pet make me wish I stored it. In fact, I do the same thing as a ranger myself. When I see enemy pets and specifically target them I can take them down in about 4s max (unless they have SOS). Their limited armor and health make them easy targets.

Now, you can say, “LTP ranger noob, you should be x/x/x/30. If not, don’t whine if your pets dies then”. Well guess what? Why should I be forced to take a trait line just to make my pet viable in certain situations? Pets should be viable right out of the box. Pets still need work.

Its like you haven’t read the guide at all

I did say that putting points in BM would help, but I never said to max it out as a solution. In fact, I even said we need help from ANet on pet survival.

Pet management is up to the player. So in zergs, would you as a melee player head off alone into a zerg? Of course not. Why would you send your pet in there?

Learn to work with the pet, rather than work against it. If you already closed off your mind to exploring the abilities with pets, you’re not using your ranger to its maximum potential.

Lastly, you might want to check out this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests

jubskie.3152:

So in zergs, would you as a melee player head off alone into a zerg? Of course not.

Actually if I’m on my thief or D/D ele then yes I absolutely do, as do most others because on those classes we can.

The issue is that ranger DPS is reliant on AI.
Stupid AI.
Really really stupid AI.

It paths poorly. It attacks in bad sequences. It dies in 1 aoe attack or 2-3 regular attacks. Even BM pets. It takes no time at all to lazily “meh dps” down a ranger pet when you face them in combat. You guys can only swap them what every 15 seconds if traited? 1 whirlwind attack will usually drop them via the aoe. On my ele they just die to the burst rotation i’m laying down on other people. On a thief I ignore them unless I want a free and reliable CnD.

Not saying the concept of the pets are bad, and some of the utility they give is quite nice. I’m saying their survivability and CONTROLS are terrible. And that’s ANets fault, not the players of the ranger.

Braxxus.2904:

jubskie.3152:

So in zergs, would you as a melee player head off alone into a zerg? Of course not.

Actually if I’m on my thief or D/D ele then yes I absolutely do, as do most others because on those classes we can.

Thing is, those classes are designed to do that. They have all sorts of escapes and mobility spells. Pets don’t.

Braxxus.2904:

The issue is that ranger DPS is reliant on AI.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests

Ranger Shortbow outdamages Warrior Rifle.

Braxxus.2904:

Stupid AI.
Really really stupid AI.

It paths poorly. It attacks in bad sequences. It dies in 1 aoe attack or 2-3 regular attacks. Even BM pets. It takes no time at all to lazily “meh dps” down a ranger pet when you face them in combat. You guys can only swap them what every 15 seconds if traited? 1 whirlwind attack will usually drop them via the aoe. On my ele they just die to the burst rotation i’m laying down on other people. On a thief I ignore them unless I want a free and reliable CnD.

Yes, I agree that pet AI and survivability needs work. I even acknowledged those problems on the OP.

Braxxus.2904:

Not saying the concept of the pets are bad, and some of the utility they give is quite nice. I’m saying their survivability and CONTROLS are terrible. And that’s ANets fault, not the players of the ranger.

I agree again, we need more control over pets, like command queuing and pet positioning.

The main purpose of this thread is to make people understand that pets, “horrible” as they are in their current state, are still useable and not useless. You acknowledged that they are, so I’ve done what I’ve set out to do.

I probably wouldn’t use that thread as an indicator for Rangers Shortbow damage, vs a Warriors Rifle damage.

They didn’t spec the Warrior correctly, or use the right skills. I can more than quadruple a Rangers damage with the Rifle, let alone land killshot for MASSIVE damage because I rooted my target with the Longbow, and snared them with the Rifle, right before I hit them with roughly 18 stacks of mobility, and a Kill Shot that one shots them.

My Warrior has done 8k to 10k Volleys, 18k to 24k Killshots. You’re never going to do half that damage with a Shortbow. Even if you’re hasted, and I’m not.

It’s so easy to avoid a Rangers pet, it isn’t even funny. You’re only hurting yourselves with threads like this, because Anet might think the pets are fine, and don’t need fixed. Do yourselves a favor, and quit with this nonesense.

jkctmc.8754:

I probably wouldn’t use that thread as an indicator for Rangers Shortbow damage, vs a Warriors Rifle damage.

They didn’t spec the Warrior correctly, or use the right skills. I can more than quadruple a Rangers damage with the Rifle, let alone land killshot for MASSIVE damage because I rooted my target with the Longbow, and snared them with the Rifle, right before I hit them with roughly 18 stacks of mobility, and a Kill Shot that one shots them.

My Warrior has done 8k to 10k Volleys, 18k to 24k Killshots. You’re never going to do half that damage with a Shortbow. Even if you’re hasted, and I’m not.

It’s so easy to avoid a Rangers pet, it isn’t even funny. You’re only hurting yourselves with threads like this, because Anet might think the pets are fine, and don’t need fixed. Do yourselves a favor, and quit with this nonesense.

Yes, because whining in the forums is so much better than learning the class

Also, I never said that pets are fine as is. I said they needed work but are useable.

EDIT: added clarity

jkctmc.8754:

I probably wouldn’t use that thread as an indicator for Rangers Shortbow damage, vs a Warriors Rifle damage.

They didn’t spec the Warrior correctly, or use the right skills. I can more than quadruple a Rangers damage with the Rifle, let alone land killshot for MASSIVE damage because I rooted my target with the Longbow, and snared them with the Rifle, right before I hit them with roughly 18 stacks of mobility, and a Kill Shot that one shots them.

My Warrior has done 8k to 10k Volleys, 18k to 24k Killshots. You’re never going to do half that damage with a Shortbow. Even if you’re hasted, and I’m not.

It’s so easy to avoid a Rangers pet, it isn’t even funny. You’re only hurting yourselves with threads like this, because Anet might think the pets are fine, and don’t need fixed. Do yourselves a favor, and quit with this nonesense.

Warriors are overtuned in Zerg fights with Rifle Spec, this doesn’t make the Ranger bad, it just means Warriors need a nerf in that specific instance.

I can tell you as a Rifle Warrior, you have about 15 seconds to live against me 1v1… I will kitten on you so hard you childrens children will wonder why their face is so messed up.

But at the same time, I can’t sit in the middle of the zerg, and pop people for 20k damage.

Now rifle warrior should be comparable to Longbow Glass Cannon Rangers, however…We don’t have anything major like killshot, instead we have to rely on Rapid Fire which might do 6k-10k if we’re lucky and it completely lands…

So basically Rifle Warriors need a slight damage drop for the amount of effort it takes to put out that damage in zerg fights.

bumping for new rangers!

tl; dr.

Pets aren’t useless, they’re just questionably reliable and inconsistant. All classes except warrior (and thief to a lesser extent) can have pets. Everyone knows the benefits of pets.

jubskie.3152:

Braxxus.2904:

The issue is that ranger DPS is reliant on AI.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests

Ranger Shortbow outdamages Warrior Rifle.

outdamage?? PFFF, WAS A BAD TEST, because, if i have 10k hp with 1 kill shot im dead, if i have 10k hp and a rangert hit me for 1k , ten times, i have plenty of time to move, dodge, or attack the ranger.

Burst vs sustained damage, in a 1vs1 environment burst is better(mesmer shatter , thief mug+CnD+backstab, eles combo, engineer bombs+rifle).

The problem with ranger is that we NEVER hit with our max dps, because our pet is stupid, f2 skill should be instant but is a joke (3-5 sec delay), if our pets die we have a “dps debuff”and are really easy to kill (you can have them in passive and will die from aoes….),longbow have a “distance” debuff , all other classes can hit you with 100% of is dps power in each attack and in each situation , we cant…

urdriel.8496:

jubskie.3152:

Braxxus.2904:

The issue is that ranger DPS is reliant on AI.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests

Ranger Shortbow outdamages Warrior Rifle.

outdamage?? PFFF, WAS A BAD TEST, because, if i have 10k hp with 1 kill shot im dead, if i have 10k hp and a rangert hit me for 1k , ten times, i have plenty of time to move, dodge, or attack the ranger.

Burst vs sustained damage, in a 1vs1 environment burst is better(mesmer shatter , thief mug+CnD+backstab, eles combo, engineer bombs+rifle).

The problem with ranger is that we NEVER hit with our max dps, because our pet is stupid, f2 skill should be instant but is a joke (3-5 sec delay), if our pets die we have a “dps debuff”and are really easy to kill (you can have them in passive and will die from aoes….),longbow have a “distance” debuff , all other classes can hit you with 100% of is dps power in each attack and in each situation , we cant…

I see you like citing skewed examples. You post like killshot never misses :P So what happens when killshot is blocked/dodged? That goes for all the other stuff you posted too. Or are you implying that once the ranger pet dies, the ranger is so stricken with grief that it just stands there to get combo’d? :P

Also, when your pet dies, does your ranger have nothing else up his sleeve? What happens to your utilities and weapon skills?

Yes, ranger pets could be improved but rangers are not as useless as you make them out to be, even when the pet dies.

lol, dude, if our pet die we LOSE dps, all other class nevers lose dps , they always have 100% dps on each hit, our pet is STUPID, you can kite a pet forever, so, 40% of our dps is RANDOM sometimes pet will hit sometimes not.

if i DONT evade kill shot im dead, if i dont evade shortbow shot im ALIVE, i have plenty of time to move (yes obstructed,obstructed bug) while you shot at me, if i roll 1 time, i will dodge 2-3 arrows.

We have Pet utilities, what happens to pet utilities (signets for example) when our pet die?, uhm, we lose effectiveness and dps.

As much as I try to make my pet useful, it simply dies too quickly to AoE for me to do anything. I’ve been sticking to devourers and spiders for immobilize and poison fields. The fact that they are ranged causes them to live longer, and as such I can do more damage over all. Then they die if an AoE sneezes on them. In fact, half the time I switch them out (and I do so as soon as possible to proc mighty switch and quickness) they run up to the mob I’m fighting before attacking. Ultimately this gets them killed. They’re ranged, there is no reason to run into a group of enemies I have entangled or chilled or what not.

Switching out pets for different utilities is a very good idea, but I’m afraid most rangers are jaded towards their pets abilities to even care in most cases. In terms of WvW, I know I don’t bother with my pet. This is due to me trying to work on my own offense and defense, and having to pay attention to my pet at the same time just isn’t worth it. Not to mention lag at times makes it nearly impossible. The most I can do, and do do, is to switch it out as soon as possible. I do try and pull the pet away from AoE, and control their movement if I’m not being attacked directly but that doesn’t happen often. Heck, half the time I call them away from the target they still end up doing something stupid and die.

No, I’m sorry OP but pets are useless right now. They stand in AoE, you can’t control their actions, some pets won’t even use all their skills, they don’t always use their F2 right when you call it (and I mean start the skill, I know there is a casting time on them) and so on. In short you can NEVER count on them. Yes you can make them work, but it’s like fighting a horse that just doesn’t want to go where you do. It’s not worth your time to try and make it acceptable when it is clearly flawed.

When there are other classes and builds out there that do not have to rely on luck and AI to do the same things you can do but better, there is no justification for how pets are right now. Especially seeing how weaker we get when our pets die.

And that’s just about the pets, don’t even get me started on the utilities that require or utilize pets.

Really great write up jubskie! You took the words right out of my mouth here, as I’ve said a lot of these things myself to other complaining Rangers. No doubt that there are a lot of fixes needed to be done with the pet AI, but resent changes have done a lot, and the bottom line is that there’s a lot of skill/experience involved in learning how to manage your pet. I hope ArenaNet sticky this thread.

Kasama.8941:

Really great write up jubskie! You took the words right out of my mouth here, as I’ve said a lot of these things myself to other complaining Rangers. No doubt that there are a lot of fixes needed to be done with the pet AI, but resent changes have done a lot, and the bottom line is that there’s a lot of skill/experience involved in learning how to manage your pet. I hope ArenaNet sticky this thread.

Be that as it may, pets are still not in a good place right now. There is a lot of skill required to use your pet, I agree. But as it is that skill is multiplied by a magnitude due to pet’s funky AI, which isn’t reliable.

Like jubskie said, a ranger should be able to do something even if the pet is dead. Sadly if the pet is dead the ranger is still gimped in terms of damage and usefulness, no matter what utilities you have packing.

The recent changes are nice, but they most certainty haven’t done a lot. Pet shouts still suck, our signets are still horrible, and spirits are still easily wiped out.

Spritemage.4609:

Be that as it may, pets are still not in a good place right now. There is a lot of skill required to use your pet, I agree. But as it is that skill is multiplied by a magnitude due to pet’s funky AI, which isn’t reliable.

Like jubskie said, a ranger should be able to do something even if the pet is dead. Sadly if the pet is dead the ranger is still gimped in terms of damage and usefulness, no matter what utilities you have packing.

The recent changes are nice, but they most certainty haven’t done a lot. Pet shouts still suck, our signets are still horrible, and spirits are still easily wiped out.

Yes, as I wrote; the pet could still need some improvements. But the resent changes has done a lot to pet responsiveness. I can still remember how bad the pets were in beta, that was horrible, and nothing compared to how good they work now.

The Ranger being gimped when your pet dies, is exactly why pet switching was made. Few Rangers know that if you switch out your pet while it’s alive, the recharge time on pet switching becomes significantly shorter, then if you switch out a defeated pet. The pet also becomes fully revived when you rally, something that you can take advantage of by using the active ability from Spirit of Nature, to revive yourself in a bad situation. Further more; some skills also work while the pet is defeated, such as “Search and Rescue”.

I disagree with shouts and signets being bad. I use them a lot, and switch between different shouts and signets all the time.

urdriel.8496:

lol, dude, if our pet die we LOSE dps, all other class nevers lose dps , they always have 100% dps on each hit, our pet is STUPID, you can kite a pet forever, so, 40% of our dps is RANDOM sometimes pet will hit sometimes not.

if i DONT evade kill shot im dead, if i dont evade shortbow shot im ALIVE, i have plenty of time to move (yes obstructed,obstructed bug) while you shot at me, if i roll 1 time, i will dodge 2-3 arrows.

We have Pet utilities, what happens to pet utilities (signets for example) when our pet die?, uhm, we lose effectiveness and dps.

Sigh… there is no convincing you when your mind has already set in stone that pets are useless. Your discontent has been noted and needs no further discussion.

Spritemage.4609:

-snip-

No, I’m sorry OP but pets are useless right now. They stand in AoE, you can’t control their actions, some pets won’t even use all their skills, they don’t always use their F2 right when you call it (and I mean start the skill, I know there is a casting time on them) and so on. In short you can NEVER count on them. Yes you can make them work, but it’s like fighting a horse that just doesn’t want to go where you do. It’s not worth your time to try and make it acceptable when it is clearly flawed.

When there are other classes and builds out there that do not have to rely on luck and AI to do the same things you can do but better, there is no justification for how pets are right now. Especially seeing how weaker we get when our pets die.

And that’s just about the pets, don’t even get me started on the utilities that require or utilize pets.

The purpose of this thread is not to say that “pets are fine as is,” but to say that “yes pets have issues, but they are still useable and not as bad as people make them out to be.” This thread will, hopefully, guide new rangers into seeing what pets are actually capable of.

Kasama.8941:

Really great write up jubskie! You took the words right out of my mouth here, as I’ve said a lot of these things myself to other complaining Rangers. No doubt that there are a lot of fixes needed to be done with the pet AI, but resent changes have done a lot, and the bottom line is that there’s a lot of skill/experience involved in learning how to manage your pet. I hope ArenaNet sticky this thread.

Thanks, glad to see another person that thinks the same! I hope they sticky this too (so I dont have to bump it up anymore XD)

Ranger class was really good in the last beta test event, and mesmer class was bad ( all mesmers were crying at forum) ,in the release, Ranger class was supernerfed and mesmer was overpowered, WHY?

Pet is better now than in the release? OFC, but is bad yet.
Ranger GS is better now than in Release? yes, but is bad yet.
Ranger SB is better now than in release?yes, oh wait, NO, Anet nerfed shortbow.
Ranger Longbow is better now than in release?no.
The best pet traits are in Beastmaster, uhm,no, Skirmish.
Signet are now better than in the release? they only changed Signet of Stone, we must use 30 points in MARKMANSHIP

If pet is 40% of our dps, pet MUST hit 100% , now perhaps hit 40%-50% , you can kite pets and kill a ranger without problems, it is really easy,because pets are STUPID, they need better IA(long range pet move to melee distance 90% of time).

We have a lot of utilities that are for pets, but if pets are bad, utilities are bad too.

GW1 ranger is best than GW2 ranger, you have lot of builds (WITH OR WITHOUT PET) , and here you only have 1 or 2.

jubskie.3152:

So you’re interested to try out the Ranger class and went to do some research. Youo you get familiar with the Pets in GW2 so you can decide if the Ranger Class is for you!……

Hi jubskie,
I would agree it would be positive to look at the pet in a way that you have posted. In fact I like the way you posted the information quite clearly and well thought off.

Just that in my honest opinion, I feel that developers may wish to look into 2 areas I highlighted previously in the suggestion section to improve profession.

Simple interface improvement
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Improvement-Ease-of-Pet-commands-on-the-fly/first#post846461

Slow motion issue link to pet
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Ranger-Slow-motion-issue/first#post846408

If areana net ever implements the above 2 suggestions, I will have no complains about the profession. Nice write up still jubskie. Thanks

Rangers are capable of burst damage but our freaking pets needs to be alive to achieve this.

Just my 2 cents.

Well i just started playing ranger and most likely havent been in all possible situations but so far my pets in PvE ( excluding Dungeons ) are very great asset. All i need to do is send in my Pig and he soaks up all damage , meanwhile i kill half of camp.

My hope best way.
1. all “Pet” abilitys change to GW1 system . like “charm animal”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charm_Animal
2. all Pure weapon skills scaling petless value

jubskie.3152:

The purpose of this thread is not to say that “pets are fine as is,” but to say that “yes pets have issues, but they are still useable and not as bad as people make them out to be.” This thread will, hopefully, guide new rangers into seeing what pets are actually capable of.

I agree that they can be used yes, and that they aren’t as bad as people make them out to be. People make them out to be dead all the time, and that they are useless. This is wrong.

However, the issues from the AI present more of a problem than what pets can do in theory. What you’ve stated in the op isn’t wrong, but it isn’t something that I have seen to be that useful in practice. Not because pet skills are bad. Not because my timing sucks. Not because I use the wrong pets. Because the pet AI does something unimaginably stupid.

Your guide makes sense, and I agree with it! It would be a great help to new rangers! Would be. Because from my own personal experiences in game, pets simply are too much of a wild card due to their AI. Maybe I’m just having a hard time with pets where you aren’t, because half the time I’m struggling just to get my pet to not behave foolishly.

Except my water pets. Underwater all my pets function wonderfully, and I have absolutely nothing wrong to say about them. At least off the top of my head.

EDIT:

Kasama.8941:

I disagree with shouts and signets being bad. I use them a lot, and switch between different shouts and signets all the time.

I’m not going to talk about the shouts as I my issues with them have to do with pet AI.

The signets however have horrible active effects. Signet of the hunt, an increase in your pets next attack. Both the thieves movement speed signet and elementalists movement speed signet give AoE blind.

But really my main issue is that the signet’s active effects only affect the pet. as I’ve made known, my feelings towards the pets AI isn’t that great. Whenever I use a signet, I find the effects wasted. Except underwater, where I only use signets.

Here’s the issue: Necromancers have pets too… But I’m not forced to make a summoning build or halve my necro’s power. Why is the ranger being shoehorned into this one build, which isn’t even good because even full BM-built pets suck at anything other than PvE (and are only marginally good there) at the risk of losing half of his effective power?

I have a simple suggestion for it too: make “non-BM” traits (minor and major) stronger, and make the BM trait tree way stronger. That way people can spec into a Beast Master build, at the cost of keeping the individual ranger gimped, or they can spec into a “solo ranger” build, at the cost of the pet being less reliable.

I guess you didn’t play before pet buff.

first of all, I haven’t read all of this thread, just the OP, so I’m replying to his “counterpoints”

1. Just no. Even with a high damage pet, other classes outdps rangers easily on single targets. It’s even worse on multiple targets. Also, birds and felines, our most powerful pets, are made of paper and die pretty much the second an enemy looks at them (especially in dungeons)

2. So, by using low (pet snares) or no (muddy terrain) damage skills, we can (for a short while) counteract our pets problems with moving enemies? Tremendous.
Not to mention: Only one cat (Snow Leopard) and one bird (Owl) have slows, both are short (~3 sec) chill effects on relatively long CDs (20 / 30sec). Of course, one could switch to other pets, with better CC abilities, but they do less damage, evening the scales.

3. Pet swapping has a CD (shared with stow pet, btw). Also, by simply stowing the pet, it causes even less trouble.

4. Even with constant F1 / F3 to engage / disengage, the pet will die. While it is running around back and forth, it deals no damage, when there is an AoE effect, it will most likely still get hit (because no dodge). True, one can help the pet a bit with F1/F3, but it’s a very weak form of control, doesn’t replace dodge, and requires the player to not only to take care of his char, but also of an unresponsive pet, up to 1500 away.

okay, on to the 2nd post

1. Pets die in a few hits, unless you take a “tank” pet and/or have a truckload of points in BM
In Dungeons, even a bear and 30pts BM won’t survive more than 2 hits

2. a) In some cases, yes, though the Karka Champ pretty much onehits pets.
b) The pet will either do no damage, or die. Probably both. Search and Rescue is a bit on the unreliable side, and the pet’s revive speed is horrendous.
c) On the one hand, the pet takes forever to destroy the crystal, on the other hand it’ll have died to Alpha’s AEs anyway
d) That isn’t exactly helpful. Fun, maybe, but not useful. That’s like saying Mesmers are the best class because of pretty butterflies.

3. In PvP / WvW you’re dead anyway, in PvE you must be very lucky for your pet to kill the monster before it kills you. When being downed, getting up quickly or preventing enemies from finishing me is more important than having some meager part of my dps still standing.
Now, if Lick Wounds was more reliable (and wouldn’t cause the Pet to drag the mob to you), that’d indeed be helpful

Spritemage.4609:

Kasama.8941:

I disagree with shouts and signets being bad. I use them a lot, and switch between different shouts and signets all the time.

I’m not going to talk about the shouts as I my issues with them have to do with pet AI.

The signets however have horrible active effects. Signet of the hunt, an increase in your pets next attack. Both the thieves movement speed signet and elementalists movement speed signet give AoE blind.

But really my main issue is that the signet’s active effects only affect the pet. as I’ve made known, my feelings towards the pets AI isn’t that great. Whenever I use a signet, I find the effects wasted. Except underwater, where I only use signets.

Pet AI has improved a lot from the last patch. Whenever I use “Search and Rescue”, for example, the pet always instantly goes to the nearest ally to revive him/her. The only time it doesn’t work is when I make a mistake, like using the skill when there are no allies to revive.

Considering that players often complain about the Ranger not having enough burst damage, I think Signet of the Hunt’s active effect is fine. Press F2, look for the icon to blink, then press Signet of the Hunt, and you got a nice burst attack from your pet.

I just disagree. Yes, pet AI could still use some more work, but it still works as it is now. Whenever I use a shout, the reaction from the pet is instant, and the pet succeeds in doing what I want it to do, more often then it fails. That’s my experience.

Epic Cactus.9723:

first of all, I haven’t read all of this thread, just the OP, so I’m replying to his “counterpoints”

1. Just no. Even with a high damage pet, other classes outdps rangers easily on single targets. It’s even worse on multiple targets. Also, birds and felines, our most powerful pets, are made of paper and die pretty much the second an enemy looks at them (especially in dungeons)

I keep seeing this “other classes outdps rangers” argument so often, but I have never seen actual numbers and tests to support this. Care to make proof? I’m really interested if this is true. Also, I acknowledged that pet survival needs to be looked at, but you’re using glass cannon pet as an example to claim that pets die when “enemies look at them.”

Epic Cactus.9723:

2. So, by using low (pet snares) or no (muddy terrain) damage skills, we can (for a short while) counteract our pets problems with moving enemies? Tremendous.
Not to mention: Only one cat (Snow Leopard) and one bird (Owl) have slows, both are short (~3 sec) chill effects on relatively long CDs (20 / 30sec). Of course, one could switch to other pets, with better CC abilities, but they do less damage, evening the scales.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that while snaring enemies helps your pet, it also helps your ranger as it reduces obstructed issues. Not to mention your allies too. Yes, snare skills are tremendous indeed.

Epic Cactus.9723:

3. Pet swapping has a CD (shared with stow pet, btw). Also, by simply stowing the pet, it causes even less trouble.

I agree, but I don’t see how this is a problem? Jump down a cliff, pet swap. If you had your pet stowed, it will only appear when you get fall damage. Still not a problem.

Epic Cactus.9723:

4. Even with constant F1 / F3 to engage / disengage, the pet will die. While it is running around back and forth, it deals no damage, when there is an AoE effect, it will most likely still get hit (because no dodge). True, one can help the pet a bit with F1/F3, but it’s a very weak form of control, doesn’t replace dodge, and requires the player to not only to take care of his char, but also of an unresponsive pet, up to 1500 away.

Yes, pets will die in dungeons to things that one hit players. That’s why I posted “it’s really up to ANet to help us here.” More options to keep pets alive would be greatly appreciated and its one of the things that I hope will come in the future.

In PvE, however, none of the other classes can compare to my bear’s ability to hold 5 risen while I shoot them down. No other class can also have their pet tank the champion karka boss while you sneak past it and harvest ori ore.

Epic Cactus.9723:

okay, on to the 2nd post

1. Pets die in a few hits, unless you take a “tank” pet and/or have a truckload of points in BM
In Dungeons, even a bear and 30pts BM won’t survive more than 2 hits

Answered above.

Epic Cactus.9723:

2. a) In some cases, yes, though the Karka Champ pretty much onehits pets.

The point isn’t for the pet to damage it, just hold it long enough for you to get around it and harvest the node. Using the right pet for the job is important. If you use a bird or a cat for this, you’re not doing it right. Also, the only time the Karka Champ has 1-shotted my bear was when it did the jump-smash attack, and it uses that very rarely.

Epic Cactus.9723:

b) The pet will either do no damage, or die. Probably both. Search and Rescue is a bit on the unreliable side, and the pet’s revive speed is horrendous.

I don’t know how you manage your pets, but if it isn’t doing damage or is always dead, you’re definitely doing something wrong. Unless you somehow have pets that have 0 power stat, I doubt that it won’t do damage. Also, it looks like you haven’t been reading patch notes. S&R’s revive speed has been buffed and I’ve noticed that the Lick Wounds has been more reliable on slopes.

Epic Cactus.9723:

c) On the one hand, the pet takes forever to destroy the crystal, on the other hand it’ll have died to Alpha’s AEs anyway

Again, I have acknowledged that pet dies to 1 shot AoEs. Why not make the most of the situation and time your pet swaps?

Let’s assume that your pet has died. Swapping it will just make the next pet die in a few moments. So instead of swapping haphazardly, swap it in when you’re encased in crystal. If you have 5 points in BM, your pet should make short work of the crystal, even if it is a not a high damage pet. If not, and it dies midway, your allies now have less crystal hp to deal with.

Epic Cactus.9723:

d) That isn’t exactly helpful. Fun, maybe, but not useful. That’s like saying Mesmers are the best class because of pretty butterflies.

That isn’t exactly an argument either. I fail to see how keeping you in your post while still being able to farm is comparable to pretty butterflies.

Epic Cactus.9723:

3. In PvP / WvW you’re dead anyway, in PvE you must be very lucky for your pet to kill the monster before it kills you. When being downed, getting up quickly or preventing enemies from finishing me is more important than having some meager part of my dps still standing.

Again you leave out the fact that pets still have all their skills available to them. Wolves are pretty popular in sPvP because their F2 AoE fear works even if you are downed. So is their KD ability. And luck has nothing to do with pets killing enemies in PvE while I’m downed. Can you compare a cat’s 1k+ crits to any of the other classes’ down skill damage? Also, while your pet is DPSing, you’re free to use your 4 skill.

Epic Cactus.9723:

Now, if Lick Wounds was more reliable (and wouldn’t cause the Pet to drag the mob to you), that’d indeed be helpful

Answered above.

Lastly, since you said you didn’t read any other post, let me put this here:

jubskie.3152:

The purpose of this thread is not to say that “pets are fine as is,” but to say that “yes pets have issues, but they are still useable and not as bad as people make them out to be.” This thread will, hopefully, guide new rangers into seeing what pets are actually capable of.

bumping for new rangers!

That does it for me when Anet limits buffs to 5 entities. (Not sure if its fixed yet)

There’s one time when pet simply takes away buffs from your party member, now since its prioritize party member, you can hardly buff your pet in dungeons.

phandaria.4891:

That does it for me when Anet limits buffs to 5 entities. (Not sure if its fixed yet)

That is actually intended and its in the patchnotes.

There’s one time when pet simply takes away buffs from your party member, now since its prioritize party member, you can hardly buff your pet in dungeons.

That is actually intended and its in the patchnotes.

If you really need buffs on your pet, 15 points in Nature Magic can fix it for you. Otherwise, buffing players is generally more helpful than buffing your pet. Players do have more damage than a pet after all.

Unless you’re running solo and you dont want to buff random people? The only time that would happen would be in world events, or in WvW zergs.

Or am i missing something?

Lysico.4906:

Solid Gold.9310:

Pets are useless in WvW and pretty much worthless everywhere else as well.

lol..

lol.. hold on… lol

lol.. hold on… lolOh man, that is classic

lol.. hold on… lolOh man, that is classicWatch my bird pet blow you up, or my cat rip you a new one..

lol.. hold on… lolOh man, that is classicWatch my bird pet blow you up, or my cat rip you a new one..Sorry not all of us zerg surf and send the pet into aoe messes

Let me add:
Roll On The Floor Laughing My kitten Off. Har Har Har, pets are useless in WvW?

Would you mind letting me farm badges from your dead kitten

OrianZeta.1537:

And here’s my suggestion: pets can rally the player, rangers should be able to rally their pets. A bond is a two-way street, Anet, we support one another.

This. And you used to be able to revive pets, as well, back in the beta. Even other players could revive pets. I’d be ok with making that just the ranger only being able to do it for their own pets.

I might try a moa the next time I do AC (which is every day, just about) and get to Lt. Kohler. Any pet that gets anywhere near him IS useless.

Your putting it all bunched up in one package… If people complain about world pve as ranger they shouldn’t be playing the class. There needs to be the standard 90% pet damage reduction from Aoe that most games have adopted now; because it fixed a classic problem with pet classes in general. Most complaints that are valid will come from Dungeons… You can micro manage your pets all day long your still guna lose it in the chaos more then not. And if your a BM it does ruin your dps. It doesn’t have to be an argument of who tops invisible meters anymore then it does who can micro manage pets better then others. An AoE damage reduction would just be a good place to start.
Most just sit them on sideline because it just feels to tedious and it is. Just a lil…
I mean tbh I laugh at any Ranger in World Pve with anything out but a Bear…. Why? Because A bear tanks anything in sight… A cat drops like a fly, etc. What Im saying is somethings wrong there. Not that a Bear is TO strong; but that others are to weak. Its the same in Dungeon mode; the class just isn’t set up right. They Destroyed the Spirit build, there is a good sup build avlb that hardly anyone uses. And more then 1/2 the traits are bad lol. BUT im not saying it sucks; if your look at the silver lining its in a good spot in my opinion in all areas of the game; dungeons being the roughest tho. That doesn’t mean I cant admit it is a lil short in what I previously said. And the Talents that are bogus; or mechanics that other classes don’t suffer from e.i LB penalty/bonus.

Kasama.8941:

I disagree with shouts and signets being bad. I use them a lot, and switch between different shouts and signets all the time.

Just because you use a skill doesn’t mean its good. It could mean that you are bias, or that the pool of skills is worse than the one you choose. Anyways you are wrong about signets they are sub par in comparison to other classes. Although the speed buff was nice. I don’t use spirits enough to judge, but from what I hear they are worse than signets. I think the dev team even said as much. Here’s an analysis I did of two ranger signets because they were easily comparable.

#################################

Signets in general are way too focused on pets. I think Anet thought pets would be far more valuable than they turned out to be.

Just looking at Passive Abilities

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Signet of the Wild: Heals your pet for more than double the amount that you get healed.

Player: 62 health/s
Pet: 125 health/s

Lets compare to other classes. All lvl 80

Warrior: 200/s (healing signet)
Elementalist: 202/cast (signet of restoration)
Thief: 100/hit (signet of malice)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Signet of Stone: Gives your pet 3.4 times the amount of Toughness that you get.

Player: 35 Toughness
Pet: 120 Toughness

Lets compare to other classes. All lvl 80

Elementalist: 90 Toughness (signet of earth)
Warrior: 90 Toughness (dolyak signet)
Guardian: 10% less damage (signet of judgement) ~ arguably better than all classes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In conclusion, the passive effects of ranger signets are far too weak to even be worth the slot because pets take the majority of the benefit when they are far more squishy than the player. Raising the player’s benefits would fix this, which could possibly be tied to Signet of the Beastmaster, even though I think the raise should be traitless. Like most Ranger problems, they generally have to do with one thing.

“pets are the ranger’s weakness"

Clovis.7386:

Kasama.8941:

I disagree with shouts and signets being bad. I use them a lot, and switch between different shouts and signets all the time.

Just because you use a skill doesn’t mean its good. It could mean that you are bias, or that the pool of skills is worse than the one you choose. Anyways you are wrong about signets they are sub par in comparison to other classes. Although the speed buff was nice. I don’t use spirits enough to judge, but from what I hear they are worse than signets. I think the dev team even said as much. Here’s an analysis I did of two ranger signets because they were easily comparable.

#################################

Signets in general are way too focused on pets. I think Anet thought pets would be far more valuable than they turned out to be.

Just looking at Passive Abilities

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Signet of the Wild: Heals your pet for more than double the amount that you get healed.

Player: 62 health/s
Pet: 125 health/s

Lets compare to other classes. All lvl 80

Warrior: 200/s (healing signet)
Elementalist: 202/cast (signet of restoration)
Thief: 100/hit (signet of malice)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Signet of Stone: Gives your pet 3.4 times the amount of Toughness that you get.

Player: 35 Toughness
Pet: 120 Toughness

Lets compare to other classes. All lvl 80

Elementalist: 90 Toughness (signet of earth)
Warrior: 90 Toughness (dolyak signet)
Guardian: 10% less damage (signet of judgement) ~ arguably better than all classes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In conclusion, the passive effects of ranger signets are far too weak to even be worth the slot because pets take the majority of the benefit when they are far more squishy than the player. Raising the player’s benefits would fix this, which could possibly be tied to Signet of the Beastmaster, even though I think the raise should be traitless. Like most Ranger problems, they generally have to do with one thing.

“pets are the ranger’s weakness"

You can’t compare Signet of the Wild with any other Signet those classes get simply based on the fact that Signet of the Wild isn’t attached to my heal…Signet of the Stone can probably be compared but then again with the right talent Signet of the Stone becomes incredibly powerful (otherwise I agree, it’s not great)

and pets aren’t a ranger’s weakness.

Xsorus.2507:

You can’t compare Signet of the Wild with any other Signet those classes get simply based on the fact that Signet of the Wild isn’t attached to my heal…Signet of the Stone can probably be compared but then again with the right talent Signet of the Stone becomes incredibly powerful (otherwise I agree, it’s not great)

and pets aren’t a ranger’s weakness.

Thief’s Flanking Strike is a good skill in theory, it’s useful to remove boons and evade; buts the second strike is not reliable and often doesn’t hit, making the skill weak.

Ranger’s Pets are a good mechanic in theory, they are useful to divide aggro and can be traited to hit hard; but they often miss moving targets, their F2 skills don’t activate consistently, their revive mechanic often doesn’t work, making pets weak.

Both these things can be micro managed to compensate for better usage; but compared to mechanics and skills that are 100% reliable, they are weak.

Clovis.7386:

Just because you use a skill doesn’t mean its good. It could mean that you are bias, or that the pool of skills is worse than the one you choose. Anyways you are wrong about signets they are sub par in comparison to other classes. Although the speed buff was nice. I don’t use spirits enough to judge, but from what I hear they are worse than signets. I think the dev team even said as much. Here’s an analysis I did of two ranger signets because they were easily comparable.

#################################

Signets in general are way too focused on pets. I think Anet thought pets would be far more valuable than they turned out to be.

Just looking at Passive Abilities

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Signet of the Wild: Heals your pet for more than double the amount that you get healed.

Player: 62 health/s
Pet: 125 health/s

Lets compare to other classes. All lvl 80

Warrior: 200/s (healing signet)
Elementalist: 202/cast (signet of restoration)
Thief: 100/hit (signet of malice)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Signet of Stone: Gives your pet 3.4 times the amount of Toughness that you get.

Player: 35 Toughness
Pet: 120 Toughness

Lets compare to other classes. All lvl 80

Elementalist: 90 Toughness (signet of earth)
Warrior: 90 Toughness (dolyak signet)
Guardian: 10% less damage (signet of judgement) ~ arguably better than all classes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In conclusion, the passive effects of ranger signets are far too weak to even be worth the slot because pets take the majority of the benefit when they are far more squishy than the player. Raising the player’s benefits would fix this, which could possibly be tied to Signet of the Beastmaster, even though I think the raise should be traitless. Like most Ranger problems, they generally have to do with one thing.

“pets are the ranger’s weakness"

lol, it’s funny that you think my experience with the Rangers signets is bias, yet you try to disprove it by using math. Guild Wars 2 is an action game. Who the hell cares if some skill numbers of other professions are higher? This isn’t backgammon. What matters is which skills/traits work in correlation with the singular skill of the individual profession, and how the skill works in practice. That is how you balance an action game.

You have to take into account all the vigor the Ranger also can get, plus the fact that the Ranger has a pet that takes a ton of damage off the Ranger. Then there’s the difference between light, medium, and heavy armor. Not to forget the different class balance philosophies, that ArenaNet are aiming for. Malice and Signet of Restoration are also both healing skills, so of curse they are going to be stronger then the healing from a utility signet. All these things you have to take into account.

Clovis.7386:

Xsorus.2507:

You can’t compare Signet of the Wild with any other Signet those classes get simply based on the fact that Signet of the Wild isn’t attached to my heal…Signet of the Stone can probably be compared but then again with the right talent Signet of the Stone becomes incredibly powerful (otherwise I agree, it’s not great)

and pets aren’t a ranger’s weakness.

Thief’s Flanking Strike is a good skill in theory, it’s useful to remove boons and evade; buts the second strike is not reliable and often doesn’t hit, making the skill weak.

Ranger’s Pets are a good mechanic in theory, they are useful to divide aggro and can be traited to hit hard; but they often miss moving targets, their F2 skills don’t activate consistently, their revive mechanic often doesn’t work, making pets weak.

Both these things can be micro managed to compensate for better usage; but compared to mechanics and skills that are 100% reliable, they are weak.

I’ve not had much trouble with Flanking Strike, I’ve actually used it to screw over Elementalist I see being chased by groups (teleport in, spam it, remove couple of their boons, teleport out)

The only thing I have problems with when concerning my Ranger Pet is Stealth Mechanics effect on them, If someone is constantly stealthing it really screws with the pet.

Otherwise I don’t have much trouble with them hitting targets.

Rangers need to learn to properly use thier pets. Yes the are not perfect they need some work. But those of you who dont know how to use cripple or cc to help your pet hit its target cry the most but its your failling not just your pets.

If you dont know how to use your pet you are just like a thief who cant use stealth properly or a mes who cant use illusions very well.

Both of these classes are a pain becuase of these mechanisms. As is a ranger becuase of his namly our pets. You dont have to use any trait that helps your pet just as a mes doesnt have to use any that help his illusions or a thief and his steal and stealth.

But dont cry when you dont do well becuase of it.

On another note aoe kills clones faster than they do pets same with engineers kits.
Other classs performances are affected. Maybe not is the same why but to the same degree like when a ranger pet dies.

Im trying all kinds of pets and 30 points in BM they still go down really fast

Also the guy above me cannot spell because !

Yes, that’s because im Dyslexic. Funny thing is I’m an English teacher.

Pets are not useless.

They are just clunky, poorly programmed, and sorely lacking in AOE resistance, dodge/evasion and Agony Resistance. They sometimes aggro adds your party didn’t intend to fight…stand in lava like it isn’t killing them slowly…and pretty much waste time on Jade Maw because they get targeted a crap ton by that beam of death. They lick wounds as intended almost 60% of the time and they only miss 33% of their autoattacks because their target moved! Last but not least…they can’t seem to smell the invisible thief, don’t always hear you calling for them to use their F2 ability [causing you to pound on it/hold it down] and there is a delay in the “return to me” function that makes “split second/clutch” positioning impossible.

Not useless at all. Myth busted.

Level 80 Ranger
Brown Bear – “Bearly Usefull”
Arctodus – “Bearly Bearable”

Its no myth. They are useless. Ranger Pets don’t respond to F1-F4 for me except for maybe the 1st target I send them after. After that its all a crapshoot and I usually need to resummon a new pet for them to work properly again. Fix this kitten.