Guild Wars 2

Hello all, I wanted to bring more attention to a build that I feel has been a bit under the radar.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/96806-zerk-is-for-casuals-june-2015-ranger-builds/

The always controversial Guanglai Kangyi has come up with a really strong Condi Ranger build. It primarily relies upon the interaction between Quick Draw and Bonfire. By constantly switching weapons off cooldown and throwing down Bonfire (Torch 5), you can stack massive AoE Burning.

My guild and I have been trying out in fractals (50-40-30) and general dungeons, and I can say it’s pretty darn strong. Please see Guang’s guide for more details, as I think this may be a build that many players have been looking for, and not even known it!

(Here is a demonstration from Guang’s youtube channel of its DPS capabilities while buffed)

EDIT: DnT has released their own version of the build:

thank you as well… I’ve been looking for good builds for ranger.

Yeah. Cheers for spreading this around. I’m giving it a second try as I’m not a huge fan of Axe main-hand. It’s definitely different from the standard zerk Ranger and I’ve been passing it onto my peeps to give it a shot as well.

I’ve added this build to the build thread in my sig.

yeah i have tried something similar, the best conditions build i found is one around an asura ranger. Its meant to be a hybrid build between power and conditions, primarily bleeding, but does apply almost a little bit of every condtion, and if i wanted i could apply them all except slow between my skills , traits and pet. like if i had sigil of ice instead of sigil of earth and used wolf pet. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNQQJAVTlEqgK3YnbwZFQ1CD/B1+6ZQA0rwtvD8DE7z+FTt3C-ThSEABIcIAOUJYc7PQwDAAZlVAcEAEWXgxq/8kSlmvAABAOA2d30d3AjP+4jP+4t7v/+7v7WKAImZB-e

The red moa is really there just to reapply opening strike more often. with Light on your Feet trait it makes every shot piercing and reduces cd. Trait Wilderness Knowledge is really there for 2 reasons: #1. it removes conditions and applies fury which also refreshes opening strike, and #2. it reduces cd on entangle which brings it down only 2 secs higher then cd on ravens from mad king runes. Also should note that the first weapon skill called Crossfire has a chance with traits, abilities built into skill and sigil of earth to apply 3 stacks of bleeding per shot and weapon skill Crossfire at least with this setup has no cd and with trait is also again piercing. combine that with the 80% bonus bleed duration, and bonus 20% bleed damage it makes it a very nice skill.

Having a hard time believing that mainhand axe, with nothing on swap, is our highest dps.

A demonstration of the spec’s capabilities from Guang’s youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkXOyaE9AgA

Sube Dai.8496:

Having a hard time believing that mainhand axe, with nothing on swap, is our highest dps.

In a condi build axe just has to compete with sword and 5 bleeds does a lot more damage than 2 poisons. GS and longbow only make it worse and poison Volley no matter how boosted is trumped by splitblade. The melee projectile weapon with slow animations having the highest damage output isn’t so ridiculous, it’s countered by every defensive mechanic in the game (reflects, interrupts, stealth, condi cleanse, boon removal, moving away…).

HotHit.6783:

Sube Dai.8496:

Having a hard time believing that mainhand axe, with nothing on swap, is our highest dps.

In a condi build axe just has to compete with sword and 5 bleeds does a lot more damage than 2 poisons. GS and longbow only make it worse and poison Volley no matter how boosted is trumped by splitblade. The melee projectile weapon with slow animations having the highest damage output isn’t so ridiculous, it’s countered by every defensive mechanic in the game (reflects, interrupts, stealth, condi cleanse, boon removal, moving away…).

This is a pve discussion so I fail to see how that matters.

Also splitblade is only good against a single target, and at point blank range. Sword has cleave.

Neko.9021:

A demonstration of the spec’s capabilities from Guang’s youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkXOyaE9AgA

5 of the bleeds are coming from Entangle, and 4 from the cat.

Until we see the math of sinister mainhand axe/torch vs sword/torch I’m not sure its correct.

I wonder if you swap the sigil of malice for a sigil of doom or sigil of torment could increase the overall damage by adding a different type of condition.

Sube Dai.8496:

Until we see the math of sinister mainhand axe/torch vs sword/torch I’m not sure its correct.

Surprisingly, they are equal. Like within 150 DPS of each other.

Second surprising fact: for any fight lasting over 10 seconds, Sun Spirit is better than QZ even for berserker ranger.

Third (un)suprising fact, Guang’s build is good, but suboptimal. There are higher DPS Runes and Sigils to use. Stay tuned.

Belzebu.3912:

I wonder if you swap the sigil of malice for a sigil of doom or sigil of torment could increase the overall damage by adding a different type of condition.

No, it wouldn’t.

NikeEU.7690:

Sube Dai.8496:

Until we see the math of sinister mainhand axe/torch vs sword/torch I’m not sure its correct.

Surprisingly, they are equal. Like within 150 DPS of each other.

Second surprising fact: for any fight lasting over 10 seconds, Sun Spirit is better than QZ even for berserker ranger.

Third (un)suprising fact, Guang’s build is good, but suboptimal. There are higher DPS Runes and Sigils to use. Stay tuned.

See I knew someone would do it for me. I love you dnt guys

Looks like ill have to do those annoying living world achievements too

NikeEU.7690:

Sube Dai.8496:

Until we see the math of sinister mainhand axe/torch vs sword/torch I’m not sure its correct.

Surprisingly, they are equal. Like within 150 DPS of each other.

Second surprising fact: for any fight lasting over 10 seconds, Sun Spirit is better than QZ even for berserker ranger.

Third (un)suprising fact, Guang’s build is good, but suboptimal. There are higher DPS Runes and Sigils to use. Stay tuned.

I have been theory crafting with sinister and aristocracy, can hit over 2400 power and condi damage with self stacked might and corruption sigil. I’d like to see your take on it and how it could be as optimal as possible, it’s in the build thread in my sig under PvE world events and farming. Sinister Trapper.

for pve wouldn’t rampager be good? especially if you go s/t+a/t. You could bring in some ferocity with trinkets so you still get the benefit of the higher dps on sword AA, splitblade on cooldown and use bonfire on quickdraw.

Hybrid builds don’t work in GW2 PvE. What happens is you end up with an inferior direct damage build and an inferior condition damage build and the sum of the two is less than if you just dedicated yourself one way or the other.

I’d like to see your take on it and how it could be as optimal as possible, it’s in the build thread in my sig under PvE world events and farming. Sinister Trapper.

Lose the Sword. Use Honed Axes. Viper Nest isn’t really worth it, better with Frost Spirit/QZ/movespeed sig for open world.

I like this a bit better… http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAnf3fjMqQ7K2tCOrAXLGSEq+C21nmXgy9A+AIZn5UeSJkaF-TxxCABNqEEgDCAzq/cy+DOr874HAAynAQvApAgZZF-e

The big thing is going harder on burning than Might stacking. I think your DPS results will be superior if you focus on hitting the 100% burn cap than might stacking. The plus side is you will be better if you want to use the build in a dungeon.

Prophet.1584:

for pve wouldn’t rampager be good? especially if you go s/t+a/t. You could bring in some ferocity with trinkets so you still get the benefit of the higher dps on sword AA, splitblade on cooldown and use bonfire on quickdraw.

Well, you would do the same thing with Sinister, but have 400 more condition damage and 20% less crit chance over Rampager.

NikeEU.7690:

Sube Dai.8496:

Until we see the math of sinister mainhand axe/torch vs sword/torch I’m not sure its correct.

Surprisingly, they are equal. Like within 150 DPS of each other.

Second surprising fact: for any fight lasting over 10 seconds, Sun Spirit is better than QZ even for berserker ranger.

Third (un)suprising fact, Guang’s build is good, but suboptimal. There are higher DPS Runes and Sigils to use. Stay tuned.

If you’re going to say Aristocracy because of might stacking, let me cut you off right there. Ranger barely self-stacks any might (other than on pet) and anything you’re gonan get from sigils is not going to offset the loss of Malice/Earth.

For everything else damage-related, I’ve already considered as alternatives 5x Nightmare, Balthazar, and Krait runes and the are all extremely close in overall DPS. If it comes down to it though having general condition duration that also buffs your vuln and weakness applications will end up being slightly more useful overall.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Prophet.1584:

for pve wouldn’t rampager be good? especially if you go s/t+a/t. You could bring in some ferocity with trinkets so you still get the benefit of the higher dps on sword AA, splitblade on cooldown and use bonfire on quickdraw.

Well, you would do the same thing with Sinister, but have 400 more condition damage and 20% less crit chance over Rampager.

With banners, fury, and your own Spotter, you will already be sitting on about 95% crit chance. Rampager won’t help you here. Even without banners or an external source of fury, you’re still going to have around 50% uptime thanks to Furious Grip so the extra crit chance will be wasted whenever you swap for Bonfire. If you want to go Rampager trinkets instead of Sinister because you’re cheap/don’t have Ascended Sinister unlocked, that’s fine. Just don’t go full rampager. In fact, I think Sinister weapons/armor is cheaper than Rampager, at least for now.

I’m thinking that Flame Trap is the only one worth taking now, meaning I can drop Trappers Expertise for Sharpened Edges. But I also want to drop spotter for hidden barbs then too heh.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I’m thinking that Flame Trap is the only one worth taking now, meaning I can drop Trappers Expertise for Sharpened Edges. But I also want to drop spotter for hidden barbs then too heh.

Venom trap are awesome also.
Doing up to 5k venom damage/tick under full might, stacks+dagger4 with really low CD

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I’m thinking that Flame Trap is the only one worth taking now, meaning I can drop Trappers Expertise for Sharpened Edges. But I also want to drop spotter for hidden barbs then too heh.

I agree, having 2 traps is a thing for open PvE, for dungeons you still want to have frost and sun spirits with flame trap. Unless you’re in a full sinister group (I wish).

Sun Spirit is better for open world too. Ideally you’d probably want something like Sun Spirit, Flame Trap, Signet of the Hunt as your utility layout.

Sun Spirit: 6 ticks of burn x ~425 damage per tick = 2550 DPS

and Solar Flare = 15 ticks = 6375. Total: 8925.
Flame Trap: 10 × 425 = 4250

Viper’s Nest: 12 × 150 = 1800

Viper’s Nest is by far the weakest option of the three.

So, quick question: In dungeons with Sun Spirit during boss fights, would it be recommended to spawn the Sun Spirit relatively close to a boss to take advantage of the Burning of Solar Flare before it dies or spawn it in a safe place as usual?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you’re going to say Aristocracy because of might stacking, let me cut you off right there. Ranger barely self-stacks any might (other than on pet) and anything you’re gonan get from sigils is not going to offset the loss of Malice/Earth.

Luckily I’m not!

For everything else damage-related, I’ve already considered as alternatives 5x Nightmare, Balthazar, and Krait runes and the are all extremely close in overall DPS. If it comes down to it though having general condition duration that also buffs your vuln and weakness applications will end up being slightly more useful overall.

I’m sure you have, but I’m talking min/maxing. Technically, the absolute best is Balthazar with Agony and Geomancy but that has a ramp up time which sucks for group play. Balthazar with Malice and Bursting is less than 1% less over time and doesn’t have a ramp up time so that’s probably best overall.

NikeEU.7690:

Hybrid builds don’t work in GW2 PvE. What happens is you end up with an inferior direct damage build and an inferior condition damage build and the sum of the two is less than if you just dedicated yourself one way or the other.

To expand on this, the weapon skills and damage formulas are mostly linear, so in and of themselves they don’t favor specialization (if they did, either a DD or condition build would always be better overall). What kills the hybrid builds are the traits, runes/sigils, and equipment stats. Those are highly non-linear – the more you focus on one type of damage, the more benefit they give.

e.g. 1 rune gives +25 stat, 3 gives +50 stat, 5 gives +00 stat So if you tried to go 3/3, you’d end up with +75 power, +75 condition damage, or +150 stats total.

But if you went 6/0 you’d have +175 power which (if the damage formula is linear) beats the combined +150 stats of the hybrid. Heck, if you were willing to give up the 6th rune effect, you could go 5/1 in the same stat for +200 power.

For traits, each trait a hybrid picks ends up boosting half his damage (generally speaking), whereas the specialized build gets all his damage boosted by that trait.

Same problem with sigils and equipment. You pick Berserker’s and you’re running a hybrid, only half your damage benefits, whereas all the damage from a DD build benefits.

In theory a Celestial hybrid could offset this, since the sum total of stat bonuses for Celestial is greater than for any other type (but still has the drawbacks of traits and runes/sigils). But it got nerfed pretty badly from the introduction of Ferocity. Celestial used to give a flat +crit damage%, and Anet (inadvertently I’m assuming) nerfed the armor for hybrids the most with a change they said was to address Berserker being too popular. I’ll have to revisit the math on this though – the loss of +300 stats (x3) from the traitline overhaul means +stat from equipment plays a larger percentage role now.

Is sinister really worth it as well? Can we achieve roughly the same amount of dps using rabid?

Photinous.4628:

Is sinister really worth it as well? Can we achieve roughly the same amount of dps using rabid?

Your power damage is not completely nonexistent, so you get more out of that with the added power from sinister than you would from the extra cond dmg out of the utility buff (and the +100 cond, +10% duration buff is better anyway).

NikeEU.7690:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you’re going to say Aristocracy because of might stacking, let me cut you off right there. Ranger barely self-stacks any might (other than on pet) and anything you’re gonan get from sigils is not going to offset the loss of Malice/Earth.

Luckily I’m not!

For everything else damage-related, I’ve already considered as alternatives 5x Nightmare, Balthazar, and Krait runes and the are all extremely close in overall DPS. If it comes down to it though having general condition duration that also buffs your vuln and weakness applications will end up being slightly more useful overall.

I’m sure you have, but I’m talking min/maxing. Technically, the absolute best is Balthazar with Agony and Geomancy but that has a ramp up time which sucks for group play. Balthazar with Malice and Bursting is less than 1% less over time and doesn’t have a ramp up time so that’s probably best overall.

Why Geomancy? Earf is better.

Also you know Bursting is +6% to condi damage stat, not +6% to damage per tick, right? At 2900 condition damage you will get an extra 174 condition damage, which is worth about 10 extra damage per bleed tick and 27 per burn tick. With average 20 bleeds and 8 burns that is worth about 400 extra damage. On the other hand Earf is about 4 extra bleeds which is worth about 1k.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Why Geomancy? Earf is better.

It’s not. “Earth” give you 1 stack of bleed each 2-4sec for 5sec only.
Geo Apply 3stacks of bleed AOE on each target for 10sec every weapon swap.

Elorna.5329:

Photinous.4628:

Is sinister really worth it as well? Can we achieve roughly the same amount of dps using rabid?

Your power damage is not completely nonexistent, so you get more out of that with the added power from sinister than you would from the extra cond dmg out of the utility buff (and the +100 cond, +10% duration buff is better anyway).

Yeah, I just don’t want to farm silver wastes if it’s not much more dps overall.

Photinous.4628:

Elorna.5329:

Photinous.4628:

Is sinister really worth it as well? Can we achieve roughly the same amount of dps using rabid?

Your power damage is not completely nonexistent, so you get more out of that with the added power from sinister than you would from the extra cond dmg out of the utility buff (and the +100 cond, +10% duration buff is better anyway).

Yeah, I just don’t want to farm silver wastes if it’s not much more dps overall.

Ask Guang for math on that, but the difference probably isn’t game changing.

Elorna.5329:

Photinous.4628:

Elorna.5329:

Photinous.4628:

Is sinister really worth it as well? Can we achieve roughly the same amount of dps using rabid?

Your power damage is not completely nonexistent, so you get more out of that with the added power from sinister than you would from the extra cond dmg out of the utility buff (and the +100 cond, +10% duration buff is better anyway).

Yeah, I just don’t want to farm silver wastes if it’s not much more dps overall.

Ask Guang for math on that, but the difference probably isn’t game changing.

I was in Rabid for the video in my thread if that helps at all. The power from Sinister will boost the direct damage floaters you see in the video by approximately 50%, which is honestly not that much considering.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Why Geomancy? Earf is better.

Earth is a sustained 3.5 bleed stacks in this ranger build. Geomancy is 5.9ish. But yeah, I think its worth trading sub-1% overall damage for faster ramp up time so I don’t use either.

Also you know Bursting is +6% to condi damage stat, not +6% to damage per tick, right? At 2900 condition damage you will get an extra 174 condition damage, which is worth about 10 extra damage per bleed tick and 27 per burn tick. With average 20 bleeds and 8 burns that is worth about 400 extra damage. On the other hand Earf is about 4 extra bleeds which is worth about 1k.

I’m very aware. But the ramp up time on Earth is meaningful. When we look at DPS we look at 10 second, 15 second and 30 second and then repeatable if the repeatable rotation is longer than 30 seconds. Repeatable is important for solos and duos, but 10 and 15 for dungeons and 30 for some fractal fights. But I find that 10 and 15 is by far the most important.

What interests me is, why are we using Sinister Ascended weapons and not Giver’s Exotic weapons?
Group support makes the physical damage increase relevant?
Simply to appease the 10 second burst, best case scenario only overlords?
‘Cause not being full ascended wouldn’t have the same swag?

Secondly, if you’re running Exotic Sinister, would Giver’s be better for damage?

You already hit 100% burn duration without them, so you may as well be adding more condi/power/precision and you don’t need vitality really.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You already hit 100% burn duration without them, so you may as well be adding more condi/power/precision and you don’t need vitality really.

With 2 Nightmare and 4 trapper runes you can hit 95% condi duration, which sounds okay since we’re inflicting 2 to 3 types of conditions. Anyway, I drew up a quick build in the build calculator to make damage calcs, but it seems like giver’s was screwed over by the specialisations patch. So long as the ability tooltips from the damage calculator are trustworthy anyway, you’ll do about 50 more physical damage per attack and bunch more condition damage with ascended sinister. Sinister can also use Balthazar runes for even more benefit.

You can see for yourself
Quick link to a similar Exotic Balthazar’s Sinister build for comparison

So nevermind. All those snowflakes are still almost useless, just invest in burning like crazy.

I think you mean 4 nightmare and 2 trapper? That would be 105%, meaning you can drop a givers for sinister again. The 300 condi damage you lose by going givers is no joke.

Uh you should have 85% tops with the super expensive tryhard crystal, 75% without it.

Do we have an idea where condi ranger now sits compared to other classes? Is ele still #1 in DPS?

Photinous.4628:

Do we have an idea where condi ranger now sits compared to other classes? Is ele still #1 in DPS?

My spreadsheets have Sinister Engineer as highest theoretical DPS provided you have a perfect rotation (which you don’t), then Zerker Staff Elementalist as #2 given optimal buffs. Sinister Ranger is #3 with the added bonus of their damage being a lot more consistent and less dependent on situational buffs.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Photinous.4628:

Do we have an idea where condi ranger now sits compared to other classes? Is ele still #1 in DPS?

My spreadsheets have Sinister Engineer as highest theoretical DPS provided you have a perfect rotation (which you don’t), then Zerker Staff Elementalist as #2 given optimal buffs. Sinister Ranger is #3 with the added bonus of their damage being a lot more consistent and less dependent on situational buffs.

IF that is correct, wow, that is cool. I would never expect anything to beat zerk staff ele because, ele, but that is nice to know!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Photinous.4628:

Do we have an idea where condi ranger now sits compared to other classes? Is ele still #1 in DPS?

My spreadsheets have Sinister Engineer as highest theoretical DPS provided you have a perfect rotation (which you don’t), then Zerker Staff Elementalist as #2 given optimal buffs. Sinister Ranger is #3 with the added bonus of their damage being a lot more consistent and less dependent on situational buffs.

Very interesting. So is that solo or in a group with all buffs?

30 second fight length…

Sinister ranger with full group buffs is around 14k dps.

Berserker staff ele is around 17.5k

Berserker Engineer is around 17k

Berserker ranger is around 14k.

Condi ranger is a viable replacement for berserker ranger, and more fun to boot. But it doesn’t change the overall meta because ranger is still much worse overall than multiple other options, however it doesn’t really kitten your team if you do use one.

NikeEU.7690:

30 second fight length…

Berserker staff ele is around 17.5k

That is without glyph of storm and without icebow, right?

NikeEU.7690:

30 second fight length…

Sinister ranger with full group buffs is around 14k dps.

Berserker staff ele is around 17.5k

Berserker Engineer is around 17k

Berserker ranger is around 14k.

Condi ranger is a viable replacement for berserker ranger, and more fun to boot. But it doesn’t change the overall meta because ranger is still much worse overall than multiple other options, however it doesn’t really kitten your team if you do use one.

You’re forgetting the pet. With the pet the ranger is about 16k DPS putting it very close to the ele with far fewer overall requirements. Hell you’re not even gonna get 17k on that ele build without a ranger in the first place since you need Frost Spirit.

For any other situation where you don’t have a matching dungeon potion, don’t have an EA warrior and Spotter Ranger, aren’t downscaled, aren’t nighttime, mob isn’t 2600 armor, etc. ranger is going to be more overall DPS.

Which is actually what I just said, so it sorta sounds like we’re mostly in agreement on this.

Guang, what numbers do you get for sinister engi, if I may ask?

Crazy bleeding kitten of fiery torment!

You see up to 8K burning tics and up to 5K bleed tics in the beginning; afterward, they average 5K to 4K tics for both burning and bleeding.

Nice. Very nice.

So Nike, what build are you using for your calculations? I’d just like to compare the two.

Also, if it is your “official” DnT build then I’ll add it to the build page.

Ryn.6459:

Guang, what numbers do you get for sinister engi, if I may ask?

18.5k on a balanced Traveler setup, 19.2k on a DPS-only Nightmare setup.

so then would this be the recommended build now for dungeons/fractals for ranger? Condi tends to be more fun anyway than the average power build but I don’t want to stat change all my ascended gear from zerk if it isn’t worth it to switch. According to Nike you’re averaging about the same dps just with an alternative setup.

I guess the question is, is there benefit to running a sinister build over a zerk build? the squish factor will remain the same