Guild Wars 2

jcbroe.4329:

Sorry that I know how to take the rose tinted glasses off, and that it makes me a naysayer.

If you’ve ever read my posts, you’d see that I see plenty of problems with the class, and with many aspects of the game. But I see far more good than harm from this information. I see many things that will help us greatly. And I will look forward to what it can do for us and how the game will evolve around it.

It’s not rose-tinted glasses. It’s seeing what is there and what we can do with it. Nothing more.

The changes to ranger weapons he mentions is probably the maul changes we already know about.

Xsorus.2507:

There will also be # changes to some of the Ranger weapons.

This is the only line Rangers should be talking about.

Because this is the line that’s going to be the one screwing us most likely in the end.

That’s a pretty dark way to look at it. I think I read somewhere about a possible unconfirmed buff to Maul. One that would be pretty nice, honestly. I can see longbow maybe getting some QoL improvements as it’s still a bit weaker than would be preferred. And if the rooting on sword 1 gets fixed? I think I can safely say that we’d all like that.

But in all honesty, most likely the changes to weapons skills will be buffs, not nerfs. Look at the ranger in all game modes. Even when we do have a potential OP build (spirit rangers in PvP, anyone?) the so-called brokenness stems not from our weapons but from the utilities. Or in the case of bunker rangers in PvP pre-nerf, our pets. Again, not the weapons. So I expect with whatever changes to weapons, the end result will be a net buff.

Cufufalating.8479:

waka.9826:

too bad sic em is still not worth wasting a slot for

too bad you dont know anything about running a BM build and are not worth listening to

I know lot’s about running BM builds. Seeing as you even considered running sic’ em on a BM build proves to me you are not worth listening to lol.

Masters bond + sick em + pet prowess is some of the highest burst damage we get waka. Surely you don’t think that is a foolish variant?

Chopps.5047:

Masters bond + sick em + pet prowess is some of the highest burst damage we get waka. Surely you don’t think that is a foolish variant?

“Cannot be used without a valid targeted enemy.
The effect will end prematurely if a shout is used, the pet is given an order, the pet falls in battle, or the pet’s target becomes invisible or defeated.
Bug Bug:
This skill will fail when used while further than 2000 range from the target.”

Have fun using sic em
“Your pet has a bond with you that increases its attributes each time you kill a foe. When it is defeated or deactivated, the bond is reset.”

Have fun maintaining masters bond while not swapping pets / not letting your pet die through pet control (which will also deactivate your sic em)

Have fun with that man.

Fix sic’ ems bugs so it’s actually usable with the pet then I might reconsider what all you amazing BM rangers are saying.

If they’re changing ranger weapon skills, they might opt to bump up the base damage or power scaling coefficients on some skills to make power builds more appealing and competitive. I’d love that.

They might also give us more weapon skills that interact with our pets the way skills like Winter’s Bite and Hilt Bash currently do. That could be nice. Maybe something like your pet’s next attack after Crippling Talon lands inflicts torment or hitting with Swoop causes your pet to shadow step to the target. I wouldn’t complain about that.

Of course, they might instead mean they’re going to nerf some of our weapons, but I honestly don’t see that as very likely. The only thing even debatably overpowered about ranger weapons is the large number of evade skills compared to other classes, but it’s rare to see anyone complain about it.

waka.9826:

— snip —

*sigh*

Chopps here is probably one of the most experienced rangers in the forums. He actually does know what he’s talking about, you know.

When did “my build or you’re a nub” become the general philosophy ’round here …

Stice.5204:

Of course, they might instead mean they’re going to nerf some of our weapons, but I honestly don’t see that as very likely. The only thing even debatably overpowered about ranger weapons is the large number of evade skills compared to other classes, but it’s rare to see anyone complain about it.

Nah. Not really OP. We do that much less damage and the evades are needed to keep us alive unless we’re full bunker. Without those evades, my glassy kitten would die each time I entered melee.

The only time I used Sic’Em was during the Natures Ninja Videos

I found it to be a god awful ability most of the other time.

I’d probably use it if they add revealed to it, Just for zerging..I’d love to make a Thief have Reveal before he gets ready to stealth..

I would wait to see how much ‘revealed’ the skill actually applies before we go throwing a red and white ticker tape parade for Anet.

Anyone who has tried to go mano a mono with a thief stealth tanking knows how little effect even the three seconds of reveal they already have does.

Hence why I’d only use it while zerging.

TB them (daze) then Sic’Em

And how does one measure experience?

I’m kind of confused. If sic’em needs a valid target and stealth breaks targeting how will sic em reveal stealthed characters unless it simply stops them from going into stealth and doesn’t actually take them out of it.

Mr Pin.6728:

I’m kind of confused. If sic’em needs a valid target and stealth breaks targeting how will sic em reveal stealthed characters unless it simply stops them from going into stealth and doesn’t actually take them out of it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

I understand what revealed is. My confusion is more, how does one target something they cannot target to apply reveal?

Mr Pin.6728:

I understand what revealed is. My confusion is more, how does one target something they cannot target to apply reveal?

‘Revealed’ is a condition that prevents the user from restealthing for the duration.

The idea is you apply the condition to a thief before they use stealth to keep them from stealthing. It’s something that will be really only useful if you get the drop on them or after they come out of their first stealth if they ambush you.

Mr Pin.6728:

I understand what revealed is. My confusion is more, how does one target something they cannot target to apply reveal?

wow I’m baffled.

Doug.9628:

waka.9826:

too bad sic em is still not worth wasting a slot for

this right here is 100% of the reason they hesitate to post this kind of information. You are ungrateful, and if you offer no meaningful criticism, do not post at all.

Except its true. Infact chosing a pet utility skill is a wasted slot, since pets die in a heatbeat meaning you have skills that are totally useless when the pet is dead.

Even with a massive HP boost to pets, the AI and pet bar functionality is so lackluster that it simply wont make much of a difference. Your pet will still act stupidly, and die.

I think you target them and execute Sic Em’ and they are revealed for the duration of the skill. Only potential problem I see is you probably cannot swap pets if the skill works this way or the revealed ends.

I think it would just be best to have it as say an F5 ability instead of a trait or utility…this way all builds could use it. Then just hit the button to apply the stealth breaker.

If they do leave it as a utility then my build is in trouble, as I have no slot for it unless I go Traveler runes to drop SoH. A 30g investment for a stealth breaker is kinda steep.

EDIT: Also, my pet never dies when roaming around…which is what these changes look to be aimed at. Sure, if you leave it in the middle of a zerg it will eventually die…but you shouldn’t be doing that anyway. If anything, I always swap the pet as soon as the cooldown ends for the quickness.

I’d laugh if it was 10 seconds of reveal.

I’d personally slot that skill for zerging for sure.

Thank you Substance E. This isn’t the way I thought the dev was explaining it.

“so we thought a pet “catching your scent” might be a cool way to insinuate some anti-stealth into the game. "

That made it sound as if the shout had be reworked to seek out and “un stealth” hidden characters. Hence my confusion. Might be good, might be meh. Depends on the length of the reveal.

I can see Rangers using this on zerg blobs in wvw. Knowing where one guy will essentially reveal the group’s location.

Lexandro.1456:

Except its true. Infact chosing a pet utility skill is a wasted slot, since pets die in a heatbeat meaning you have skills that are totally useless when the pet is dead.

Even with a massive HP boost to pets, the AI and pet bar functionality is so lackluster that it simply wont make much of a difference. Your pet will still act stupidly, and die.

Right now, pets can still survive well if you micro them so long as there aren’t constant AoEs spammed everywhere. My pets have almost constant uptime. The only downtime they have is when there are too many AoEs for me to mitigate, such as in WvW zergs or particular dungeon encounters. That HP boost should hopefully give us a larger window to recall/swap pets for more uptime, but only time will tell if it is enough.

A skilled ranger chooses the pet for the utility because a skilled ranger realizes that we can only fully reach our potential with our pet.

It’s hard to use and you have to be careful not to deactivate it like waka said. I don’t take it a ton but when I do I get mean. I mean, I get what you’re saying about it seeming useless most the time but if you can chain some skills and get off a master’s bond jag with pet prowess, stealth, AND THEN hit sick em, it’s hilarious. That’s how I used to burst yaks down with a stealth cat in mere seconds. I would distract them and pull the defenders off the yaks and kill the yak behind them with my cat. Flawless technique most the time because you can get away (usually) with beastmaster build and maybe a frost trap.

Or in a roaming fight, masters bond man, 25 stacks of +8 to every stat. It’s pretty solid when you max out jag damage.

Synful, thanks for the compliment. I don’t think I’m the best here by far but it’s reassuring to hear someone say that I’m not speaking total nonsense lol. Honestly, synful, you seem much more informed than me and I like reading your opinions and insights.

Congrats rangers! I’m very glad anet is finally getting some hard counter play against stealth and you guys ended up getting it, I’m kinda jealous actually

If these changes happen that’d be pretty sweet. But if the supposed healing spring nerf comes through I will never run support again.

Penguin.5197:

Congrats rangers! I’m very glad anet is finally getting some hard counter play against stealth and you guys ended up getting it, I’m kinda jealous actually

Don’t worry, engies get aoe stability buff (Elixir S, toolbelt). That’s a biggie as wel.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lexandro.1456:

Except its true. Infact chosing a pet utility skill is a wasted slot, since pets die in a heatbeat meaning you have skills that are totally useless when the pet is dead.

Even with a massive HP boost to pets, the AI and pet bar functionality is so lackluster that it simply wont make much of a difference. Your pet will still act stupidly, and die.

Right now, pets can still survive well if you micro them so long as there aren’t constant AoEs spammed everywhere. My pets have almost constant uptime. The only downtime they have is when there are too many AoEs for me to mitigate, such as in WvW zergs or particular dungeon encounters. That HP boost should hopefully give us a larger window to recall/swap pets for more uptime, but only time will tell if it is enough.

A skilled ranger chooses the pet for the utility because a skilled ranger realizes that we can only fully reach our potential with our pet.

Sure in general walkabout pve pets are not as bad as they appear, since trash mobs are a piece of cake. Take a pet in any group based content and it quickly becomes apparent its more of a liability than a help. Infact in 6 months of ranger play, I have come to the conclusion that almost all melee pets are useless. Which is why I now only used ranged pets, and manually activate attack with them on passive.

With zero control over which pet attack are used its left to chance whether that pets additional effect is triggered at an opportune time. Hounds k/d for instace is always on the first attack and can be ’rupted easily. Or spiders immobile, which with LB4 would be great, but we have no way to tell it to do so and have to rely on a lucky pet shot.

In short until we get a pet control bar that is fit for purpose pets will always be crap.

Xsorus.2507:

I’d laugh if it was 10 seconds of reveal.

I’d personally slot that skill for zerging for sure.

Ya, hitting a dude and watching him give away the movement of his ‘veiled’ zerg would invaluable and hilarious.

Okay, so let’s discuss potential versus possible impact of Sic’ Em applying revealed.

First, we have to list potential functions:

1) The pet applies revealed for x duration to a single target
2) The pet applies revealed with each attack for the duration of Sic’ Em
3) Reveals enemies in an AoE around the ranger player (it is a shout)
4) Reveals enemies in an AoE around the ranger pet

Uses:

PvE: ….. I don’t have any. If somebody does, go ahead, I’m at a loss.

PvP: Could be useful in a fight against a thief/mesmer, though generally in PvP, the meta builds right now indicate that stealth is used more offensively than defensively (or for mesmer, as stun break). It doesn’t seem to be overly handy, other than to keep either class from resetting the fight for a period of time, and also potentially lowering DPS.

Dungeons: …. don’t see any here either. Again, if somebody has a use, please discuss.

WvW: Probably the most useful battlefield. Can be used to keep thieves/mesmers from escaping, or by simply disabling offensive/defensive options for a period of time. If AoE, can be used by coordinated groups to remove veil/mass invisibility, but would require coordination with ones own group to successfully take advantage of this.

Highest impact is probably in organized group versus group settings, in which veil/mass invisibility are common tools. Next highest impact is probably fighting a thief, but only if the reveal debuff is significant, and the ranger player is built to be able to capitalize on debuffing the thief.

Gameplay impact: Minimal. There are some new curve balls that can be thrown at old situations that may or may not change the outcome, but ultimately does not help the ranger versus the games inherent content. Thieves may prove to be less taxing opponents for rangers, which is a WvW exclusive problem because they lose the matchup against rangers in the current meta anyhow.

Lexandro.1456:

Sure in general walkabout pve pets are not as bad as they appear, since trash mobs are a piece of cake. Take a pet in any group based content and it quickly becomes apparent its more of a liability than a help. Infact in 6 months of ranger play, I have come to the conclusion that almost all melee pets are useless. Which is why I now only used ranged pets, and manually activate attack with them on passive.

With zero control over which pet attack are used its left to chance whether that pets additional effect is triggered at an opportune time. Hounds k/d for instace is always on the first attack and can be ’rupted easily. Or spiders immobile, which with LB4 would be great, but we have no way to tell it to do so and have to rely on a lucky pet shot.

In short until we get a pet control bar that is fit for purpose pets will always be crap.

I currently run melee pets, canines and drakes, in PvE dungeons and Fractals. With zero in Beast Mastery. You know what? Outside of particular instances, my pet is up and attacking alongside me. Even using it’s F2 skill! And on command as well.

The thing is, to be a good ranger, yes we have to put the pet on passive and tell it who to attack. We need to micro-manage them otherwise they are nigh-useless and will die. But if we make it part of our pattern to use F1 whenever we change target and make sure our pet attacks the same target as us? Or maybe even the target an ally is attacking? If we do that, then the pet can be quite useful.

Even if you count the Scarlet invasions, I still could run my favored two pets in the large zergs. My trusty fern hound Autumn and my reliable reef drake Muirin. Yes, they occasionally die. But for the majority of the fight, they are up and attacking.

And a fun little tactic I do sometimes when my pet goes down and F4 is on cooldown? I allow myself to go down when I’m attacking an enemy near death. I come back up, albeit not at full health. But so does my pet. Quick free pet revive. Gets my pet back in the thick of things faster.

Yes, the pet has issues. Yes, we need to work around them. But in no way is the pet useless everywhere. Just in a select few instances. And hopefully the health buff will help there.

Around around we go, when we stop nobody knows lol

Great discussion fellas, thanks for keeping it clean so far

Chopps.5047:

Around around we go, when we stop nobody knows lol

Great discussion fellas, thanks for keeping it clean so far

Hey, the forums have been dead up until we get some new news, aside from the constant drawl of…. well, you know where that’s going.

So at least it’s something to talk about lol. I wish I could find out if any of the bows are getting reworks, and if any of the traits are getting changed. I’d love to be reinvigorated to go back to my old, theorycrafting for hours ways.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lexandro.1456:

Sure in general walkabout pve pets are not as bad as they appear, since trash mobs are a piece of cake. Take a pet in any group based content and it quickly becomes apparent its more of a liability than a help. Infact in 6 months of ranger play, I have come to the conclusion that almost all melee pets are useless. Which is why I now only used ranged pets, and manually activate attack with them on passive.

With zero control over which pet attack are used its left to chance whether that pets additional effect is triggered at an opportune time. Hounds k/d for instace is always on the first attack and can be ’rupted easily. Or spiders immobile, which with LB4 would be great, but we have no way to tell it to do so and have to rely on a lucky pet shot.

In short until we get a pet control bar that is fit for purpose pets will always be crap.

I currently run melee pets, canines and drakes, in PvE dungeons and Fractals. With zero in Beast Mastery. You know what? Outside of particular instances, my pet is up and attacking alongside me. Even using it’s F2 skill! And on command as well.

The thing is, to be a good ranger, yes we have to put the pet on passive and tell it who to attack. We need to micro-manage them otherwise they are nigh-useless and will die. But if we make it part of our pattern to use F1 whenever we change target and make sure our pet attacks the same target as us? Or maybe even the target an ally is attacking? If we do that, then the pet can be quite useful.

Even if you count the Scarlet invasions, I still could run my favored two pets in the large zergs. My trusty fern hound Autumn and my reliable reef drake Muirin. Yes, they occasionally die. But for the majority of the fight, they are up and attacking.

And a fun little tactic I do sometimes when my pet goes down and F4 is on cooldown? I allow myself to go down when I’m attacking an enemy near death. I come back up, albeit not at full health. But so does my pet. Quick free pet revive. Gets my pet back in the thick of things faster.

Yes, the pet has issues. Yes, we need to work around them. But in no way is the pet useless everywhere. Just in a select few instances. And hopefully the health buff will help there.

I just said I micro my pets in exactly the same fashion. And for a long time I ran with a fern hound for the regen f2. And those “select few instances” are every dungeon, fractals, and anything with AOE.

Which btw is all group content, and precisely where rangers get such a bad rep because of bad pets.

It doesnt matter how much you say you work around it, or contend that pet A is better than pet B. Rangers are in a bad place for PVE party content.

…………………………………………………………………..Interesting lets see how this plays out, Btw I’ve never used sic em…EVER..

I’m not jumping for joy or anything.

Just waiting to see how this goes.

Awaiting the weapon changes and the follow up on healing spring because I know you all love it. Not me tho.

Lexandro.1456:

I just said I micro my pets in exactly the same fashion. And for a long time I ran with a fern hound for the regen f2. And those “select few instances” are every dungeon, fractals, and anything with AOE.

Which btw is all group content, and precisely where rangers get such a bad rep because of bad pets.

It doesnt matter how much you say you work around it, or contend that pet A is better than pet B. Rangers are in a bad place for PVE party content.

I disagree on that being true in all dungeons/Fractals. I have run all paths of all dungeons. Multiple times on most. And a majority of the time my pets are both alive and attacking. With zero in Beast Mastery.

Now some instances they will die. Instances such as Subject Alpha, Giganticus Lupicus, the Nightmare Vine (all paths) and Tree (U and F/U paths only) in TA, both bosses in Aetherblade Retreat, and a scant few more. Outside of those instances, only lower skill or excessively bad luck will make your pet useless.

Yes, rangers do have a bad rap. Some of that is earned by people playing badly and not knowing how to control their pets. The rest is based on opinion or by listening to us rangers tell them that we’re that bad. We’re really not.

We’re still quite viable in late-game PvE. We just gotta work harder to reach our potential. Our skill-floor is just that much higher.

• this is a sort of related view of how I think of ranger and pets in dungeon, kind of simplified for a short discussikn

I dunno man I think rangers are really good so long as that pet stays up. Traited Frost spirit + spotter ALONE is 12% party Dps boost. Put 5 more into NM and you got yourself fortifying bond and with a sigil of might and companions might trait, we’re talking perma 25 stack might on pet. Now you put 5 into WS and suddenly you’re a dodging machine.

We havent even mentioned a single stat yet and you get all that. Warhorn and red moa are enough fury for the entire party realistically. Plus healing spring. Drake blast on swap. Moa heal in close range? Why NOT always bring moa and drake?

In my mind, I only need dogs vs hounds in TA. Counter CC is the best way to PuG those hounds. If they get a bunch of knockdowns off on your party GG. See what I mean?

jcbroe.4329:

Okay, so let’s discuss potential versus possible impact of Sic’ Em applying revealed.

First, we have to list potential functions:

1) The pet applies revealed for x duration to a single target
2) The pet applies revealed with each attack for the duration of Sic’ Em
3) Reveals enemies in an AoE around the ranger player (it is a shout)
4) Reveals enemies in an AoE around the ranger pet

Uses:

PvE: ….. I don’t have any. If somebody does, go ahead, I’m at a loss.

PvP: Could be useful in a fight against a thief/mesmer, though generally in PvP, the meta builds right now indicate that stealth is used more offensively than defensively (or for mesmer, as stun break). It doesn’t seem to be overly handy, other than to keep either class from resetting the fight for a period of time, and also potentially lowering DPS.

Dungeons: …. don’t see any here either. Again, if somebody has a use, please discuss.

WvW: Probably the most useful battlefield. Can be used to keep thieves/mesmers from escaping, or by simply disabling offensive/defensive options for a period of time. If AoE, can be used by coordinated groups to remove veil/mass invisibility, but would require coordination with ones own group to successfully take advantage of this.

Highest impact is probably in organized group versus group settings, in which veil/mass invisibility are common tools. Next highest impact is probably fighting a thief, but only if the reveal debuff is significant, and the ranger player is built to be able to capitalize on debuffing the thief.

Gameplay impact: Minimal. There are some new curve balls that can be thrown at old situations that may or may not change the outcome, but ultimately does not help the ranger versus the games inherent content. Thieves may prove to be less taxing opponents for rangers, which is a WvW exclusive problem because they lose the matchup against rangers in the current meta anyhow.

First of all, how do you know new PvE content is not coming that would make use of the reveal ability?

Second of all, exactly how much WvW do you run? From your posts, you seem mostly like a sPvP guy. If you run WvW you would know that thieves are more than just a ‘little problem’, especially when roaming. The stealth mechanic makes even terribad thieves extremely safe to use. If they do not outright kill you, they can flee in seconds…there is no downside to it.

So a reveal mechanic—if executed properly—would make it pretty even for ranger vs. thief, and not a ‘run if you see a thief or you are going to die 80% of the time’ situation.

There already exists pve content with stealthing bosses and enemies. Off the top of my head I canthink of vivenna (mesmer boss in TA), the thief boss in CM (name?), iruklakdris or however you spell that (solid ocean fractal). Skelk in swamp fractal. The Mossman in swamp fractal. Etc; some instances you might not be able to squeeze it on your bar just to prevent a stealth, but vs mossman it might be solid.

waka.9826:

Mr Pin.6728:

I understand what revealed is. My confusion is more, how does one target something they cannot target to apply reveal?

wow I’m baffled.

If they’re smart, it’ll be an AoE reveal and Sic ‘Em will be changed to instead just increase the damage of the pet for a certain amount of time. That’d be an easier fix, making it more of a “tap this for more pet damage and AoE reveal” than a “attack this creature and don’t do anything else”.

Gotejjeken.1267:

jcbroe.4329:

Okay, so let’s discuss potential versus possible impact of Sic’ Em applying revealed.

First, we have to list potential functions:

1) The pet applies revealed for x duration to a single target
2) The pet applies revealed with each attack for the duration of Sic’ Em
3) Reveals enemies in an AoE around the ranger player (it is a shout)
4) Reveals enemies in an AoE around the ranger pet

Uses:

PvE: ….. I don’t have any. If somebody does, go ahead, I’m at a loss.

PvP: Could be useful in a fight against a thief/mesmer, though generally in PvP, the meta builds right now indicate that stealth is used more offensively than defensively (or for mesmer, as stun break). It doesn’t seem to be overly handy, other than to keep either class from resetting the fight for a period of time, and also potentially lowering DPS.

Dungeons: …. don’t see any here either. Again, if somebody has a use, please discuss.

WvW: Probably the most useful battlefield. Can be used to keep thieves/mesmers from escaping, or by simply disabling offensive/defensive options for a period of time. If AoE, can be used by coordinated groups to remove veil/mass invisibility, but would require coordination with ones own group to successfully take advantage of this.

Highest impact is probably in organized group versus group settings, in which veil/mass invisibility are common tools. Next highest impact is probably fighting a thief, but only if the reveal debuff is significant, and the ranger player is built to be able to capitalize on debuffing the thief.

Gameplay impact: Minimal. There are some new curve balls that can be thrown at old situations that may or may not change the outcome, but ultimately does not help the ranger versus the games inherent content. Thieves may prove to be less taxing opponents for rangers, which is a WvW exclusive problem because they lose the matchup against rangers in the current meta anyhow.

First of all, how do you know new PvE content is not coming that would make use of the reveal ability?

Second of all, exactly how much WvW do you run? From your posts, you seem mostly like a sPvP guy. If you run WvW you would know that thieves are more than just a ‘little problem’, especially when roaming. The stealth mechanic makes even terribad thieves extremely safe to use. If they do not outright kill you, they can flee in seconds…there is no downside to it.

So a reveal mechanic—if executed properly—would make it pretty even for ranger vs. thief, and not a ‘run if you see a thief or you are going to die 80% of the time’ situation.

Didn’t I leave PvE category open for that very reason though?

And no, I don’t know. But I can evaluate the information given to us at this time, can’t I? It’s like we’re arguing about unicorns or something, and I said that unicorns don’t exist, only to get the response: “they could exist in the future.”

I’ve also never been killed by a solo thief on my ranger. I could care less if they can run away, because I can run away, just minus the stealth. Still, I have never lost to thief on my ranger in WvW. They don’t have the sustain damage to deal with my roaming BM build, and I can outheal them while putting them down low enough to where they have to either run or they’ll die.

Not sure where this 80% loss rate comes from against thieves. If anything, the only things that stand a chance against me are Necros and Engineers, because Empathic Bond kills my pet and they have enough cleansing to deal with my damage, and then of course guardians, who I just stalemate against because we can’t do damage to each other.

The only class I turn tail and run from is a Mace/Shield Warrior. There are not enough stun breaks in the world that can deal with that build, and a warrior that knows what they’re doing can absolutely destroy right now.

@Chopps; thank you, I needed to some uses for Reveal in PvE/Dungeons.

I feel like the Sic ’Em reveal just makes the skill too situational. It should be a trait instead, that made all Ranger shout skills apply reveal (with a shorter reveal time of curse). That would be a lot more useful.

Shorter reveal time nothing. It’s be a full reveal time of 3 seconds. Need to get their attention somehow~

You are running beastmaster dire/apothecary, aren’t you jcbroe? 30 in WS? Hmm

Thats why you dont get bursted down and you sometimes lose to necro/engi. Try running something else. Suddenly theives becomes strong.

• this is wvw only, tpvp is very balanced in comparison imho

jcbroe.4329:

Gotejjeken.1267:

jcbroe.4329:

Okay, so let’s discuss potential versus possible impact of Sic’ Em applying revealed.

First, we have to list potential functions:

1) The pet applies revealed for x duration to a single target
2) The pet applies revealed with each attack for the duration of Sic’ Em
3) Reveals enemies in an AoE around the ranger player (it is a shout)
4) Reveals enemies in an AoE around the ranger pet

Uses:

PvE: ….. I don’t have any. If somebody does, go ahead, I’m at a loss.

PvP: Could be useful in a fight against a thief/mesmer, though generally in PvP, the meta builds right now indicate that stealth is used more offensively than defensively (or for mesmer, as stun break). It doesn’t seem to be overly handy, other than to keep either class from resetting the fight for a period of time, and also potentially lowering DPS.

Dungeons: …. don’t see any here either. Again, if somebody has a use, please discuss.

WvW: Probably the most useful battlefield. Can be used to keep thieves/mesmers from escaping, or by simply disabling offensive/defensive options for a period of time. If AoE, can be used by coordinated groups to remove veil/mass invisibility, but would require coordination with ones own group to successfully take advantage of this.

Highest impact is probably in organized group versus group settings, in which veil/mass invisibility are common tools. Next highest impact is probably fighting a thief, but only if the reveal debuff is significant, and the ranger player is built to be able to capitalize on debuffing the thief.

Gameplay impact: Minimal. There are some new curve balls that can be thrown at old situations that may or may not change the outcome, but ultimately does not help the ranger versus the games inherent content. Thieves may prove to be less taxing opponents for rangers, which is a WvW exclusive problem because they lose the matchup against rangers in the current meta anyhow.

First of all, how do you know new PvE content is not coming that would make use of the reveal ability?

Second of all, exactly how much WvW do you run? From your posts, you seem mostly like a sPvP guy. If you run WvW you would know that thieves are more than just a ‘little problem’, especially when roaming. The stealth mechanic makes even terribad thieves extremely safe to use. If they do not outright kill you, they can flee in seconds…there is no downside to it.

So a reveal mechanic—if executed properly—would make it pretty even for ranger vs. thief, and not a ‘run if you see a thief or you are going to die 80% of the time’ situation.

Didn’t I leave PvE category open for that very reason though?

And no, I don’t know. But I can evaluate the information given to us at this time, can’t I? It’s like we’re arguing about unicorns or something, and I said that unicorns don’t exist, only to get the response: “they could exist in the future.”

I’ve also never been killed by a solo thief on my ranger. I could care less if they can run away, because I can run away, just minus the stealth. Still, I have never lost to thief on my ranger in WvW. They don’t have the sustain damage to deal with my roaming BM build, and I can outheal them while putting them down low enough to where they have to either run or they’ll die.

Not sure where this 80% loss rate comes from against thieves. If anything, the only things that stand a chance against me are Necros and Engineers, because Empathic Bond kills my pet and they have enough cleansing to deal with my damage, and then of course guardians, who I just stalemate against because we can’t do damage to each other.

The only class I turn tail and run from is a Mace/Shield Warrior. There are not enough stun breaks in the world that can deal with that build, and a warrior that knows what they’re doing can absolutely destroy right now.

@Chopps; thank you, I needed to some uses for Reveal in PvE/Dungeons.

Do you have any videos of yourself ‘owning’ good C&D thieves or shatter / clone spam mesmers? If so I would like to see them, as from reading these forums, talking to others in game, and my own personal experience, mesmers are a stalemate and thieves are ‘run or die’.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Do you have any videos of yourself ‘owning’ good C&D thieves or shatter / clone spam mesmers? If so I would like to see them, as from reading these forums, talking to others in game, and my own personal experience, mesmers are a stalemate and thieves are ‘run or die’.

This has been my experience as well, though due to issues Ive had with targetting and the “right click” problems Ive had less luck with mes than some. Thieves I simply cannot contend with, so I simply must resort to escaping as fast as possible.

Chopps.5047:

You are running beastmaster dire/apothecary, aren’t you jcbroe? 30 in WS? Hmm

Thats why you dont get bursted down and you sometimes lose to necro/engi. Try running something else. Suddenly theives becomes strong.

• this is wvw only, tpvp is very balanced in comparison imho

I wouldn’t run a build without 30 in WS for Empathic Bond. But for my own build I’ve been working on, which I have never gone into a full forum post about, is a combination of aspects between puandros build and a typical BM build, except… no BM points.

To elaborate:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQRAnY8fjAV91BWKWo2Bi2jMZeMxPYIPjR5/LWqKJ-jEyAIuBRTLAJBwknAlHLiGbdrIasaZioa1NGA-w

Essentially, it’s just a weapon swap build to abuse fury and keep a constant output of bleeds. It does sacrifice some pet damage, but it makes up for it with beefier sustain/survival, and it has more constant pressure that relies more on the player than the pet. The pet choice is wolf for utility and jag for damage.

So it isn’t really a BM build.

Also, for my power setup:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBjYDbEoqyOySwi1OQsesn93n2jMxJMxKYoLWqKJ-jkyAYMBZCCMZJQJPl1EogYRtIas6FMVJg6cR1ujioVDA-w

Longbow because why not. Sword/Warhorn for up close damage for when they get past the LB, and mobility on sword 2. I’d go more into skirmishing if there were better traits besides Quickdraw. Same pets.

So yeah. I haven’t had any trouble in WvW yet against anybody except the classes I mentioned previously though. Maybe all of my servers matchups lack good solo roaming thieves on the other side or something.

Xsorus.2507:

There will also be # changes to some of the Ranger weapons.

This is the only line Rangers should be talking about.

Because this is the line that’s going to be the one screwing us most likely in the end.

Longbow Range reduced to be brought in line with Warrior Longbow.

Here’s a video of a ranger vs thief. This guy jumped me when I was messing around with pigs. (which if F2 worked way better, and you could pick stuff up faster, would be awesome pets to slot)

Honestly, I won’t use sic em most likely. The only signet that i’d give up for it would be SoH, but that would have to be on the fly, when I see a thief coming. Even then, the 25% speed loss would hurt more than you think.

If you are running beastmaster/regen with torch, you won’t need it. It’s for direct damage builds to have a chance vs theif as far as I can tell. And/or just the reveal debuff for a group in general. It’s good against mesmer too.