Guild Wars 2

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Wondrouswall.7169:

While you both go at it on Opening Strike minors, I’ll bring up Empathic Bond. There has been numerous suggestions before for this like the Pet just cleansing conditions from the Ranger, transferring conditions onto foes through various means, or even lowering the interval.

I’ll pitch this weird suggestion which takes elements from Scrapper’s Adaptive Armor trait and Necromancer’s Corrupter’s Fervor, but with a twist that play off the aspects of using the Pet as a condition meat-bag.

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Empathic Bond
Transfer 1 condition to your Pet every 3s. When your Pet is inflicted with a unique condition, gain Empathic Bond (10s).
Empathic Bond: You take 2% less condition damage and deal 2% more condition damage. Stacks up to 5 times.

Not really a low-hanging fruit suggestion, but it can be interesting to have a trade-off for dumping conditions onto your pet.

It can also bring out some interesting play, such as using Signet of Renewal’s active to gain 5 stacks immediately or cleansing conditions from your pet so they can gain certain conditions again in order to replenish stacks.

Those being said, EB can finally start to have some trait synergy with other lines due to combos. A bit in Marksmanship when using Signets and a bit more with condition-focused builds in Skirmishing.

Finally, competition within WS Gm tier can be more fierce while offering an alternate way to deal with conditions when compared to Wilderness Knowledge, as well as being a stronger option for builds that do not slot Survival utilities.

On the flip-side of things, it can be a competitive choice for more offensive condition builds between Poison Master (for being Poison focused) or EB as a way to increase the condition damage across multiple conditions, but at the risk of your Pet’s well-being.

Just tossin’ that out there.

Another great idea. I would even go as far to say reduce 2% condition damage for the pet also for each stack so as not to kill the pet with EB

Just curious would you still put this in WS where our 2 condition clears compete still?

Tragic Positive.9356:

Kaz.5430:

You only get Fury on weapon swap in you trait into Skirmishing, and you only get Fury on pet swap once every 30 seconds, and only if you’ve traited into Clarion Bond.

IMO it wouldn’t actually ‘kill’ Remorseless at all, so saying it doesn’t work isn’t really accurate, it would work just fine.

There would still be plenty of reason to trait Remorseless for the other Trait-based sources of Fury (e.g. Wilderness Knowledge, Two-Handed Training) which are more accessible sources of Fury anyway.

That said, I hadn’t considered those traits, which would make it a slightly superflous upgrade.

The only viable way to play remorseless was to go MM/SK/BM.
… As far as I know.

It’s not like your idea would hurt anyone …
… But it’s design feels wrong. It’s exactly the one that says “We buffed builds that no one played (outside of hotjoin and open world) while we ignored everything else that was important.”

But if we polished your idea a bit, by changing remorseless in one go – that would make sense. Something like:

• ~Remorseless: Gain 20% additional crit chance from Fury. Opening Strikes deal 30% more damage and can no longer be blocked.
  (no longer procs on fury)

And you could keep weapon swaps, pet swaps , pet F2 and what not as you suggested. Having Remorseless on Fury procs feels uncontrollable(group)/underpowered(solo) anyway. The idea feels out of logic in the 1st place
(If you increase your Crit Chance by 20% – you never needed those 20% because your next attack will crit – wasting the 20% you gained).

One way or another, these are already suggestions that most likely wouldn’t pass even the 1st round of approval at a development section of the company. Too much work and no logical explanation behind it.

This would be so broken if you add 20% additional crit chance. That’s like 40% crit with fury.

StickerHappy.8052:

Just curious would you still put this in WS where our 2 condition clears compete still?

I would still suggest EB remain in WS, yes. I know the majority is for EB to be in another traitline, so I’ll make the argument for it.

With EB still competing with WK, it can be an better alternative for builds that choose to not take Survival skills and have other means of conditions clears, yet still want other perks from selecting WS.

It may not be as direct as taking survival skills + WK (on paper), but it opens up options with Signet of Renewal (both the passive & active) and a peculiar play-style of making sure the player is cleansing the conditions off the pet as well in order for it to gain unique conditions again for buff up-keep.

With that particular change, EB could compete both offensively and defensively, as I described before. Not so much love for Poison Master outside of PvE condition builds, but it would compete with that too on a more condition-based, offensive load-out.

That, in turn, brings in better competition among the 3 Gm traits for 2 different areas (defensive or offensive), provides an additional unique style of play, a different way to battle conditions, and synergy with other forms of condition cleanse with Signet/Marksmanship potential.

On the PvE side, could be very competitive with Poison Master during condition-heavy fights since the pet damage reductions also apply to condition durations.

So overall, EB gains higher effectiveness as a choice for multiple game modes, as well as builds. Thus, why I would still vouch for it (with this change) to remain in WS.

StickerHappy.8052:

This would be so broken if you add 20% additional crit chance. That’s like 40% crit with fury.

Exactly. Where’s the harm? You sound like fury itself is broken (I’m technically only adding another exclusive fury to our kit). Necromancers already have 100% with 0 precision without fury. I know my ideas sound crazy but it seems like you guyz never compared anything to other classes in the entire life.
Not only that, but it would still ignore our DPS in PvE since we are already at 100% in our DPS build. Plus it would be as a compensation for loosing opening strikes from Fury.

I like Wondrouswalls idea about Empathic Bond. I once thought of having it changed into something like “Rabid” that transfers conditions back to enemies on hit/crit but that would just copy paste minion mancer. I like Empathic Bond’s version more for it’s theme.

Tragic Positive.9356:

StickerHappy.8052:

This would be so broken if you add 20% additional crit chance. That’s like 40% crit with fury.

Exactly. Where’s the harm? You sound like fury itself is broken (I’m technically only adding another exclusive fury to our kit). Necromancers already have 100% with 0 precision without fury. I know my ideas sound crazy but it seems like you guyz never compared anything to other classes in the entire life.
Not only that, but it would still ignore our DPS in PvE since we are already at 100% in our DPS build. Plus it would be as a compensation for loosing opening strikes from Fury.

I like Wondrouswalls idea about Empathic Bond. I once thought of having it changed into something like “Rabid” that transfers conditions back to enemies on hit/crit but that would just copy paste minion mancer. I like Empathic Bond’s version more for it’s theme.

Completely get your point, but we have very good access to fury sources already to begin with. Necro and Mesmer don’t have that luxury. I mean I think we are better off with a different effect on top of the 25%

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

Just curious would you still put this in WS where our 2 condition clears compete still?

I would still suggest EB remain in WS, yes. I know the majority is for EB to be in another traitline, so I’ll make the argument for it.

With EB still competing with WK, it can be an better alternative for builds that choose to not take Survival skills and have other means of conditions clears, yet still want other perks from selecting WS.

It may not be as direct as taking survival skills + WK (on paper), but it opens up options with Signet of Renewal (both the passive & active) and a peculiar play-style of making sure the player is cleansing the conditions off the pet as well in order for it to gain unique conditions again for buff up-keep.

With that particular change, EB could compete both offensively and defensively, as I described before. Not so much love for Poison Master outside of PvE condition builds, but it would compete with that too on a more condition-based, offensive load-out.

That, in turn, brings in better competition among the 3 Gm traits for 2 different areas (defensive or offensive), provides an additional unique style of play, a different way to battle conditions, and synergy with other forms of condition cleanse with Signet/Marksmanship potential.

On the PvE side, could be very competitive with Poison Master during condition-heavy fights since the pet damage reductions also apply to condition durations.

So overall, EB gains higher effectiveness as a choice for multiple game modes, as well as builds. Thus, why I would still vouch for it (with this change) to remain in WS.

Wow, I have never looked at it that way.

Hey dude, I have been PvEing a lot (first time since launch) and I noticed what pets clearly lack.

Cleave.

Only a handful of pets do have this and they are horrid.

Do you think its better to have a cleave GM trait for pets?

StickerHappy.8052:

Completely get your point, but we have very good access to fury sources already to begin with. Necro and Mesmer don’t have that luxury. I mean I think we are better off with a different effect on top of the 25%

I just told you Necromancers have 100% crit chance without a single boon or crit chance… That 100% crit comes from traits alone.
And they don’t have the luxury?
Okay, I’m officially out. I lost this game. I’m a horrible person and now even a horrible teacher.

StickerHappy.8052:

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

Just curious would you still put this in WS where our 2 condition clears compete still?

I would still suggest EB remain in WS, yes. I know the majority is for EB to be in another traitline, so I’ll make the argument for it.

With EB still competing with WK, it can be an better alternative for builds that choose to not take Survival skills and have other means of conditions clears, yet still want other perks from selecting WS.

It may not be as direct as taking survival skills + WK (on paper), but it opens up options with Signet of Renewal (both the passive & active) and a peculiar play-style of making sure the player is cleansing the conditions off the pet as well in order for it to gain unique conditions again for buff up-keep.

With that particular change, EB could compete both offensively and defensively, as I described before. Not so much love for Poison Master outside of PvE condition builds, but it would compete with that too on a more condition-based, offensive load-out.

That, in turn, brings in better competition among the 3 Gm traits for 2 different areas (defensive or offensive), provides an additional unique style of play, a different way to battle conditions, and synergy with other forms of condition cleanse with Signet/Marksmanship potential.

On the PvE side, could be very competitive with Poison Master during condition-heavy fights since the pet damage reductions also apply to condition durations.

So overall, EB gains higher effectiveness as a choice for multiple game modes, as well as builds. Thus, why I would still vouch for it (with this change) to remain in WS.

Wow, I have never looked at it that way.

Hey dude, I have been PvEing a lot (first time since launch) and I noticed what pets clearly lack.

Cleave.

Only a handful of pets do have this and they are horrid.

Do you think its better to have a cleave GM trait for pets?

Pets needs cleave without having to trait for it imho.

Tragic Positive.9356:

StickerHappy.8052:

Completely get your point, but we have very good access to fury sources already to begin with. Necro and Mesmer don’t have that luxury. I mean I think we are better off with a different effect on top of the 25%

I just told you Necromancers have 100% crit chance without a single boon or crit chance… That 100% crit comes from traits alone.
And they don’t have the luxury?
Okay, I’m officially out. I lost this game. I’m a horrible person and now even a horrible teacher.

Stop being agressive. 50% crit chance is GM trait Unique to them. Fury is not. Fury is affected by boon duration too. Deathly perception is also on DS only. Fury is not dependent on criterias like Vuln stacking on Necro, threshold and slow on mesmer. All of those you need to trait them or requires a secondary option to proc or maintain.

You are comparing two different things. Traiting for a GM trait is not a luxury man. Fury on ranger on the other hand is accessible even WITHOUT traiting them (Tiger, WH, RaO, etc)

Fury also gives you 20% Without any criterias to maintain, you do not have to maintain stacks of vuln, slow, etc.

Please you are okay with conversing about some of the ideas, stop being so melodramatic and let us continue to be civil and creative here.

Your idea will give you 40% crit permanently with boon duration almost 40% damage with remorseless if you take Rune of Rage.

And you are telling me that is fine?

StickerHappy.8052:

Stop being agressive. 50% crit chance is GM trait Unique to them. Fury is not. Fury is affected by boon duration too. Deathly perception is also on DS only. Fury is not dependent on criterias like Vuln stacking on Necro, threshold and slow on mesmer. All of those you need to trait them or requires a secondary option to proc or maintain.

You are comparing two different things. Traiting for a GM trait is not a luxury man. Fury on ranger on the other hand is accessible even WITHOUT traiting them (Tiger, WH, RaO, etc)

Fury also gives you 20% Without any criterias to maintain, you do not have to maintain stacks of vuln, slow, etc.

Please you are okay with conversing about some of the ideas, stop being so melodramatic and let us continue to be civil and creative here.

Your idea will give you 40% crit permanently with boon duration almost 40% damage with remorseless if you take Rune of Rage.

And you are telling me that is fine?

Yes.

I already explained why. You just said that having a Ranger Grandmaster improving our Fury with +20% bonus crit is overpowered, while Necro Grandmaster providing 50% is absolutely fine because it is a Grandmaster.

So I admitted that I lost because I have no other way to compare classes or explain why my idea would still be inferior as a DPS increase compared to other classes. Which literally means I suck at explanations, obviously.
I ran out of ideas, so I’m leaving that particular subject and I’ll join the next one looking promising to implement. That’s all there is to it.
(P.S. taking rune of rage which everyone can slot as an argument against class balance feels unreasonable).

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

Just curious would you still put this in WS where our 2 condition clears compete still?

I would still suggest EB remain in WS, yes. I know the majority is for EB to be in another traitline, so I’ll make the argument for it.

With EB still competing with WK, it can be an better alternative for builds that choose to not take Survival skills and have other means of conditions clears, yet still want other perks from selecting WS….

Nooo come on dude, having almost all out cleanses locked in one trait line really limits our build options and that’s common sense.
If I don’t want the perks from WS I’m still locked in it because you always need cleanses.

i like the suggestion about transfer a condition every 3 seconds but that GM should go to BM.

And to replace it in WS would be fantastic to have your suggestion: a GM that do this: for every condition on you, you and your pet take 2% less condition damage.
(Usually we have like 5-6 conditions at any time which could translate in 10-12% condition damage mitigation, some condition like stun or daze are too short lived and rare to make a difference)

Axe GM can be moved to Nature Magic And change the extra ferocity for something group support. (maybe merge it with invigorating bond so the axe apply have a chance to apply heals or something else on crits ) .

But please guys I want to have more freedom to make more builds. Right now I’m locked into WS or go full tank.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I already explained why. You just said that having a Ranger Grandmaster improving our Fury with +20% bonus crit is overpowered, while Necro Grandmaster providing 50% is absolutely fine because it is a Grandmaster.

Surprised Revenant’s GM trait never came up on this discussion as it amplifies the effects of Fury by 100%.

That said, I would still like to bring up a suggestion about Strider’s Defense. Even if it were to remain in the master tier, a removal of the RNG nature of the projectile destruction and having it promoted across all weapons would be more thematic and flexible. Also, toss in an added damage bonus while wielding a sword; especially after that update.

Haven’t had a chance to read every post yet, but I really think ANet needs to look at the pet abilities. So many of them are underwhelming with ridiculously long cooldowns.

Especially if pets are here to stay as a mandatory part of the class.

I’ll also add a needed fix (since ANet is probably not aware it’s been bugged since shout rework and consider it a feature)
for Ally’s Aid (reduced CD accordingly to our ability) and probably changed function of the trait.
It’s counter-productive.

I’d actually see it reasonable to change it into Spike Trap like it functioned a few whiles ago.
Either that or change the function of the trait into something that doesn’t kill the purpose of the ability cast (S&R is supposed to pull allies out, but this trait makes you go in instead).

Tragic Positive.9356:

Either that or change the function of the trait into something that doesn’t kill the purpose of the ability cast (S&R is supposed to pull allies out, but this trait makes you go in instead).

I personally want to see the trait work like Scrapper’s Function Gyro. If a downed ally is within range, you can select them and an interaction prompt will appear. “Press F: Search & Rescue”

Then S&R can be activated for that specific ally and teleported to you while the pet starts reviving them. At that point, cooldown reduction to match S&R’s and have an icon for Allies’ Aid so we know when it’s ready to use.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Either that or change the function of the trait into something that doesn’t kill the purpose of the ability cast (S&R is supposed to pull allies out, but this trait makes you go in instead).

I personally want to see the trait work like Scrapper’s Function Gyro. If a downed ally is within range, you can select them and an interaction prompt will appear. “Press F: Search & Rescue”

Then S&R can be activated for that specific ally and teleported to you while the pet starts reviving them. At that point, cooldown reduction to match S&R’s and have an icon for Allies’ Aid so we know when it’s ready to use.

This would be amazing to have, indeed.

Tipper.6973:

Haven’t had a chance to read every post yet, but I really think ANet needs to look at the pet abilities. So many of them are underwhelming with ridiculously long cooldowns.

Especially if pets are here to stay as a mandatory part of the class.

Read it all when you can. Also suggest some of your ideas on the pet so that I might include it on the original post.

As I’ve said, one big thing we lack is cleave. So far I know only Drakes are the only ones that cleave.

We also need more f2 utilities on the pet like the underwater reflect from the reef drake. I for one would like some pulls on the pet or stuns or anything else.

anduriell.6280:

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

Just curious would you still put this in WS where our 2 condition clears compete still?

I would still suggest EB remain in WS, yes. I know the majority is for EB to be in another traitline, so I’ll make the argument for it.

With EB still competing with WK, it can be an better alternative for builds that choose to not take Survival skills and have other means of conditions clears, yet still want other perks from selecting WS….

Nooo come on dude, having almost all out cleanses locked in one trait line really limits our build options and that’s common sense.
If I don’t want the perks from WS I’m still locked in it because you always need cleanses.

i like the suggestion about transfer a condition every 3 seconds but that GM should go to BM.

And to replace it in WS would be fantastic to have your suggestion: a GM that do this: for every condition on you, you and your pet take 2% less condition damage.
(Usually we have like 5-6 conditions at any time which could translate in 10-12% condition damage mitigation, some condition like stun or daze are too short lived and rare to make a difference)

Axe GM can be moved to Nature Magic And change the extra ferocity for something group support. (maybe merge it with invigorating bond so the axe apply have a chance to apply heals or something else on crits ) .

But please guys I want to have more freedom to make more builds. Right now I’m locked into WS or go full tank.

Actually rangers have more reliable condition removal options than mesmer now. Druidic clarity is a big one. Glyphs. Healing Spring. Those are outside of WS. We have signet of renewal too, other classes do not have this option imo.

Mesmers CANNOT survive the state of the game without Inspiration. Its different for us. We can go druid or go WS or both or just build around the other cleanses we have left.

If you move EB to NM or BM, you will just make those traitlines even more required.

StickerHappy.8052:

Actually rangers have more reliable condition removal options than mesmer now. Druidic clarity is a big one. Glyphs. Healing Spring. Those are outside of WS. We have signet of renewal too, other classes do not have this option imo.

Mesmers CANNOT survive the state of the game without Inspiration. Its different for us. We can go druid or go WS or both or just build around the other cleanses we have left.

If you move EB to NM or BM, you will just make those traitlines even more required.

That seems highly inaccurate. i guess you love your mesmer and use ranger just for pve farming In any case the mesmer right now has 3 traits that cleanse:

blurred inscriptions(Domination), restorative illusions(inspiration), the pledge(illusions) and Mender’s Purity(inspiration). With the pledge the mesmer cleanse with any skill from the torch.
Arcane Thievery,Null Field,Phantasmal Disenchanter and Power Cleanse(from the mantra) are skills that cleanse most of them in 20 seconds CD. The mantra can be spammed 3 times with 1 second CD to cleanse 6 conditions.
in resume the mesmer has access to cleanses in a lot different trait lines and choices.

Ranger not Druid has all his cleanses in one trait line: WS.
healing spring doesnt work, you are moving and the field is static. also 1 condi every 2 seconds and then CD of 30 is not enough.
Ranger needs empathic Bond moved out from WS. Ranger is locked in that trait line. And that is a fact.

Empathic Bond should go to BM and could transfer 1 condition from self to the pet every 3 seconds. It makes sense, you transfer the conditions to your pet that the traitline made stronger.

StickerHappy.8052:

If you move EB to NM or BM, you will just make those traitlines even more required.

Right… Coz is cool to have just one trait line forced into us, instead have a choice to choose one or the other (or both).

personally i dont like survival skills, they are dull and their CDs are too high, one trick pony so they force you to go full glass. i dont understand why there here some people that could want to keep forcing the ranger into WS.

Druid is another matter: still the only reliable cleanse it has is druid clarity once every 10 seconds if you are super lucky. the seeds simply doesnt worth it anymore (one cleanse but you have to wait 2 seconds in place, perfect to be bursted down by StickerHappy’s Mesmer).

So in resume: you comparing ranger to other class doesnt make your point right. ranger lacks build diversity because we need some traits moved and redesign.
one of them is empathic bond, and i think the best place is BM traitline simply because has sinergy with the pet bonuses that line provides.

I don’t think EB should transfer conditions to pets in the first place, unless they also gain some benefits from each condition that get tossed on them.

I actually like Most Dangerous Game as it is. It is fantastic in trap/evade builds.

Here’s me hoping that one day when I read the patch notes it says maul is now also a blast finisher :<

FrouFrou.4958:

Here’s me hoping that one day when I read the patch notes it says maul is now also a blast finisher :<

I hope for this, too. I’d even take it as part of Two-Handed Training just to have it.

Josh Davis.6015:

Great thread, thanks. Good feedback from OP and the subsequent posts.

Tipper.6973:

Haven’t had a chance to read every post yet, but I really think ANet needs to look at the pet abilities. So many of them are underwhelming with ridiculously long cooldowns.

Especially if pets are here to stay as a mandatory part of the class.

Is there a similar thread to this one but for pets – ideally somewhat current? Looked over a few pages but came up empty handed. Would love to take a look.

The issue is that pets have difficulties hitting moving targets. Many F2 skills fire off way too slow and only function well when the target is still. Pets are slow in general and have trouble sticking to the target. Would personally like to see all pet aoe/area skills turned into direct attacks because they are more of a waste currently.

I hope the team improves heal support designs because Druid and Ventari are very “clunky”, and other heal support builds aren’t that great either. Playing healing support, and support roles in general, has been the worst experience in all my years of gaming.

Seeds of Life are also useless on the move. Plus other thoughts in the link…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Seeds-of-Life-Issue

Josh Davis.6015:

Is there a similar thread to this one but for pets – ideally somewhat current? Looked over a few pages but came up empty handed. Would love to take a look.

I can’t a ‘suggested pet fixes’ thread personally. They’re a part of the class so the topic generally sits with the Ranger fix threads (like this one).

But on the topic of pets; I’ve personally tailored my build around only 6-8 pets and only used others for a specific encounter (Krytan Drakehound) or on a lark. The rest have annoyances that keep me from considering them, regardless of stats.

I agree with the few pet issues brought up here (again).
-Melee pets do have a tricky time hitting moving targets due to not being able to move during AA cast time.
-Most pets don’t have cleave, even when it might make sense (cat’s claw swipe). Not every pet needs it and not every attack needs it but I’d expect to see some tradeoff balance between cleave attacks that do Y damage and single-target damage that does Yx2 damage.
-If a pet is expected to be a healing pet (bears, fern hound, moas to a lesser extent) and the pet healing skills/traits scale from the pet, then those pets absolutely need more healing power base.

From my own experience, here are some of my pet annoyances:
-Spider poison field (Poison Gas) doesn’t last long enough to do anything. Its one second duration isn’t even listed on the tooltip. Needs to be longer or not be a field but stronger.
-Pets with buff F2s have a huge channel for little reward. Juvenile Jungle Stalker in particular but Blue Moa and but Fern Hound as well. Red Moa (with Furious Screech) feels ok but everyone seems to have ample fury these days.
-Juvenile Jungle Stalker should’ve been named Juvenile Melandru’s Stalker. mmph {GW1 Vet disappoint face}
-Porcine pets’ F2 is useless as is. There have been a number of suggestions for this but my fav is swapping the F2 to the skill like a Thief’s steal.
-And finally, I really want to be able to see what boons, condis, buffs, and debuffs are on my pet without selecting him/her/it. Seeing when their other skills are off cooldown/being used would also be a help, even if I don’t control them. Cause then I could combo off of, say, a Tail Swipe or hold off using Stone Signet if I see my bear used his invuln.

Please this. I want it. I must have it. Please Please Please this.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/191360/Pet_UI.jpg

Josh Davis.6015:

Is there a similar thread to this one but for pets – ideally somewhat current? Looked over a few pages but came up empty handed. Would love to take a look.

There is no current one at the moment. Since the last update, Rangers have been primarily focused on the last patch and its changes.

Pets are a whole other can of worms. Some were mentioned before, the smaller adjustments could be made to improve pets below.

• Glyph of Rejuvenation healing the Pet.
• Pets receiving base Healing Power and Ferocity.
• Lowered F2 cooldowns on Core Pets.

Then there is Fortifying Bond becoming baseline. Ponder on that issue, as that would be a small change with large impact for the class, in both effectiveness and quality of life with the profession’s core mechanic: the Pet.

I can make a thread for pets if people are interested. Itl be up the community as a whole to post in it and give feedback however. And I would also appreciate if people helped me gather information on the subject (there was a post in reddit at one point about the time to kill of pets on moving targets that would be useful).

Shadelang.3012:

I can make a thread for pets if people are interested. Itl be up the community as a whole to post in it and give feedback however. And I would also appreciate if people helped me gather information on the subject (there was a post in reddit at one point about the time to kill of pets on moving targets that would be useful).

I don’t think we need to go all out on this personally. The fact that we are forced to use pets that don’t hit moving targets consistently, or put any really pressure on targets, is a big enough for the devs to focus on. Their aoe/area attacks are useless on moving targets too…

Pets/minions/illusions… Are very poorly done in this game overall, and if ranger pets could hit moving targets and have fast F2 skills that hit, we can dissect more after that.

The devs really need to focus on the big issues, not niggle about the small stuff now.

Swagger.1459:

Shadelang.3012:

I can make a thread for pets if people are interested. Itl be up the community as a whole to post in it and give feedback however. And I would also appreciate if people helped me gather information on the subject (there was a post in reddit at one point about the time to kill of pets on moving targets that would be useful).

I don’t think we need to go all out on this personally. The fact that we are forced to use pets and they don’t hit moving targets consistently of put any really pressure on targets is a big enough for the end to focus on. Their aoe/area attacks are useless on moving targets too…

Pets/minions/illusions… Are very poorly done in this game overall, and if ranger pets could hit moving targets fast F2 skills that hit, we can dissect more after that.

Ill keep it general. But giving htem as much room to work with and as many ideas as we can give is important I think. Itl be a multi post thread for sure if I want to cover each topic even a LITTLE bit. But saying “hey these are the areas we need work on” and letting them see them even if we keep it in general terms is a good place to start I believe

There is still this thread LINK that was done by Firelysm several months ago on pet DPS against the moving Golem in Heart of the Mists.

Data should only be skewed in regards to Bristleback and Smokescale as they were the only 2 Pets altered in some way since then, so the rest of it should hold up.

Shadelang.3012:

Swagger.1459:

Shadelang.3012:

I can make a thread for pets if people are interested. Itl be up the community as a whole to post in it and give feedback however. And I would also appreciate if people helped me gather information on the subject (there was a post in reddit at one point about the time to kill of pets on moving targets that would be useful).

I don’t think we need to go all out on this personally. The fact that we are forced to use pets and they don’t hit moving targets consistently of put any really pressure on targets is a big enough for the end to focus on. Their aoe/area attacks are useless on moving targets too…

Pets/minions/illusions… Are very poorly done in this game overall, and if ranger pets could hit moving targets fast F2 skills that hit, we can dissect more after that.

Ill keep it general. But giving htem as much room to work with and as many ideas as we can give is important I think. Itl be a multi post thread for sure if I want to cover each topic even a LITTLE bit. But saying “hey these are the areas we need work on” and letting them see them even if we keep it in general terms is a good place to start I believe

Isn’t it sad that the devs still have to ask about issues with professions?

I mean it’s not like most of the same issues haven’t been around for almost 4 years… Pets can’t keep up with and hit moving targets, and our pet f2 attacks are poor, but are factored in to our dps equation… That hasn’t been important to fix?

We are forced to have subpar pets, our dps is horrible, Druid healing is a mess of gated reticle heals where we have to chase cats with reticles on timers and apologize to teammates for not being able to heal them at times…

We ask to fix axe offhand, but we get another wonky reticle skill on axe 4, and axe 5 still roots… Professions are dropping never ending condition bombs on players, yet we can’t get SB bleed from the front… GS damage is absolutely awful… Sword auto was a half hearted revamp and we lost our tracking… Pets are still awful nearing 4 years… Druid staff auto is awful damage and the only notable skill is staff #3, least they could do is give staff burn conditions and have #4 a direct target skill… It’s embarrassing that I have to explain to teammates why I can’t heal them at times and explain that if they want healing they need to stand still…

As nice as it is to be asked what issues Rangers and Druids (and other prof too) have, it’s frustrating because nothing is ever done about the main issues. It’s also unfortunate that balancing separately was discussed by the devs, but that won’t happen because “it’s adds more overhead to balance work”… Yet they want to have a good pvp experience for players?

Maybe this time around will be different, but it’s all just lip service until things are done. Professions and combat are the main core of this type of game, yet they are given the least development effort… At what point are professions improved beyond stationary target golem designs?

Shadelang.3012:

I can make a thread for pets if people are interested. Itl be up the community as a whole to post in it and give feedback however. And I would also appreciate if people helped me gather information on the subject (there was a post in reddit at one point about the time to kill of pets on moving targets that would be useful).

I’d post in that thread until the ends of the Earth, Shadelang. Especially one where an Anet dev is actually confirmed to be reading it.

Pet thread will come on soon. Its gonna be a long one for me. I am trying to cover all the most basic areas where pets fail.

Shadelang.3012:

Pet thread will come on soon. Its gonna be a long one for me. I am trying to cover all the most basic areas where pets fail.

Here I’ll help you, because the devs won’t do any extensive work on pets…

1. Speed up pets so they can put pressure on targets.

2. Speed up pet attacks and f2 skills so they can hit moving targets.

3. Fix these first.

4. Make pets optional, and boost ranger damage appropriately when pets are locked out of the build so we are given a dps spot in groups instead of being regulated to buff bot with gated and timed reticle heals…

Josh Davis.6015:

Great thread, thanks. Good feedback from OP and the subsequent posts.

Tipper.6973:

Haven’t had a chance to read every post yet, but I really think ANet needs to look at the pet abilities. So many of them are underwhelming with ridiculously long cooldowns.

Especially if pets are here to stay as a mandatory part of the class.

Is there a similar thread to this one but for pets – ideally somewhat current? Looked over a few pages but came up empty handed. Would love to take a look.

There are currently alot of issues involving the core pets that have already been listed, but one of the main issues is that all core pets have a difficulty sticking to their targets; in other words actually doing damage towards their targets if it is moving. This video demonstrates how increasing the auto attack distance from 130 to 250 range, as it is for the Polymorph Moa’s auto attack is, drastically improves the pets ability to pressure their targets. This simple change could open up alot of possibilities for the other pets outside of Smokescale and Bristleback, because it would make them actually function correctly.

Swagger.1459:

Shadelang.3012:

Pet thread will come on soon. Its gonna be a long one for me. I am trying to cover all the most basic areas where pets fail.

Here I’ll help you, because the devs won’t do any extensive work on pets…

1. Speed up pets so they can put pressure on targets.

2. Speed up pet attacks and f2 skills so they can hit moving targets.

3. Fix these first.

4. Make pets optional, and boost ranger damage appropriately when pets are locked out of the build so we are given a dps spot in groups instead of being regulated to buff bot with gated and timed reticle heals…

Feel free to post your opinions in the actual thread. It’s up now. But I want to ask you and everyone else to leave the emotions at the door if possible. I didn’t succeed entirely and youl be able to see it in my post. But atleast making the attempt makes it far more likely well have an actual discussion on the subject.

Josh Davis.6015:

Great thread, thanks. Good feedback from OP and the subsequent posts.

Tipper.6973:

Haven’t had a chance to read every post yet, but I really think ANet needs to look at the pet abilities. So many of them are underwhelming with ridiculously long cooldowns.

Especially if pets are here to stay as a mandatory part of the class.

Is there a similar thread to this one but for pets – ideally somewhat current? Looked over a few pages but came up empty handed. Would love to take a look.

I made a post highlighting the issues as I saw them. I say highlighting but it isn’t exactly short. I tried spacing it as well as I could but unfortunately it was 1 A.M. when I finished it and frankly I don’t have the proper presence of mind atm. But I hope I portrayed the view points of the ranger community with at least a decent level of accuracy. And I apologize for any points in the post where my emotions show through. I at no point intend to be rude if it seems that way. It is just a topic that has been discussed possibly hundreds of times by now and at this point I imagine everyone on BOTH sides of the conversation is getting tired of it.

There are long standing issue across professions that are never addresses. Balancing between PvE and PvP (wvw and spvp) is consciously not being done…

So for core Ranger-

Damage output is very low and we lack the “bags of tricks” other professions do… Ranger is second worst dps through tests and Mesmer dps tests are lowest, but let’s look at how well they function in all game modes…

Pets can’t hit moving targets consistently and f2 skills are slow as heck.

We are forced to use broken pets that miss many attacks in any movement based combat, but their hypothetical damage output is factored into core ranger design.

Druid- poor damage with staff auto, #1 and #2 could add burning to make staff better and it would fit thematically. Staff #3 is the best skill because it allows us to strategically move. Staff #4 is useless in movement based combat, could be a direct target attack that actually hits targets, or a big kitten aoe attack (see necro and ele staff skills) so we could hit consistently and on walls as well. staff #5 is useless, make it an aoe protective dome skill…

Having to apologize to team members while playing healer on Druid and Ventari is a clear indication something is wrong. They both have wonky and clunky heal designs. CA is awful due to gating mechanics, and reticle aim healing in movement based combat is similarly awful. Having to move around the Ventari tablet is awful as well… Overall, support role designs and skills are poorly done for movement based combat, and anyone with a degree of experience can see that. Here are some old Druid design suggestions…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Healing-design-real-talk-updated/first

…I could break down each profession and tell you the major design flaws, but after almost 4 years y’all have to start choosing to care about the most important aspects of the game first, which are professions and combat.

Did a quick search from 3 years ago to display how little effort has gone to profession development…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sword-auto-attack-cancels-dodge/first#post112420

Took 3 years to resolve the above sword auto issue… And sword is still lackluster

Pet “stuff” quick search from 3 years ago as well.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Pet-Boons/first#post69087

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Unresponsive-pet-abilities

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Pets-and-a-Lack-of-F2-Responsiveness

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Pets-cannot-attack-while-moving-and-take-too-much-aoe-damage

Ranger is still plagued with these similar issues and players are always begging for the same stuff… The real question is, when are fundamental things going to be addressed first?

kiwituatara.6053:

Please this. I want it. I must have it. Please Please Please this.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/191360/Pet_UI.jpg

I love this.

As someone who is new to Ranger/Druid, I don’t know how much I can really input for the profession. Most of my time is spent on my Mesmer or my Thief (which I’ve only recently begun to love).

I have noticed that Pet Control kind of sucks. Since I don’t want my pet to die to cleave in PvP I actually keep it on Passive until I know I’ll need it’s F2 ability, or I’ll send it in to do it’s one knockdown if it’s a Canine.

There’s also a lot of sustain options for Druids, but I wonder about some defensive traits elsewhere. Like Enlargement in MM. If you’re health is dropping below a threshold, wouldn’t you want a more defensive signet to proc?

And there are other traits that seem more in line for a different line. Like Oakheart Salve. That one definitely seems like it belongs in NM.

2cents

kiwituatara.6053:

Please this. I want it. I must have it. Please Please Please this.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/191360/Pet_UI.jpg

+1 Yes Please!

Little bit late to the party… but I must say there are some really good ideas in here.

I really like the MDG trait change idea, I would actually consider picking up skirmishing in pvp/wvw build. It’s exactly what this trait needs. The retal bit might be a bit too much.

Steady focus, I am fine with the buffs for pets. I think it would be better if the modifier scaled with our endurance (5% per bar).

Refined toxins is fine. It’s more of a situational trait in burst builds.

In regard to zeypher’s speed. I use this a lot too, and I agree it feels out of place. I’ve always kinda wondered why there is not a cd reduction trait for pets that has some active play. What do you think about about on f2 use the ranger gets its current quickness and the pet gets 3 seconds of alacrity?

Eval.2371:

What do you think about about on f2 use the ranger gets its current quickness and the pet gets 3 seconds of alacrity?

I’m not sure. Last time I checked (maybe 3-4 months or so ago) Alacrity had some funky interactions with the Ranger and pet.

I recall if the player received it but the pet didn’t, the F2 icon would be ready but would not activate since the cooldown was tied to the pet. If the pet were to receive it and not the player, our F2 icon wouldn’t be affected though internally, the pet’s ability would.

I don’t remember seeing any patch notes saying otherwise or testing it out recently as I login now just for the login rewards and sometimes the daily. If it has changed since that time (of 3-4 months ago), someone do update me/us.

I really think the other pets F2 abilities need to be turned into something useful. Each one should have something that make other players have a bad day. Think about it:

Smokescale = Oh my gosh nasty pet jumped me!
Bristleback = Dodge the rapid fire spike barrage!

These pets are neat because the opponents need to learn their mechanics. The other pets can mostly be ignored. Let’s change that:

Fern Hound = 600 Range: Resistance, Regen 5s
Wolf = 600 Range : Fear, Cripple 3s base
Drakehound = Immobolize, Slow 3s base
Ice Wolf = Chill, Weakness, 6s base
Triple leap range so they can connect with it. This will be the thing that makes them stand out. When they leap at you.

Black Moa = 600 Range AoE Boon Corruption (2 boons)
White Moa = 600 Range AoE Boon Removal (2 boon)
Pink Moa = 600 Range Apply 2 Random Boons
Blue Moa = 600 Range Convert 2 Conditions into Boons
Red Moa = 600 Range Copy 2 boons to Allies

Birds should give bird specific boon and swiftness on quickening screech.

Pigs should be changed to always forage the same item and it should be like swoop, on auto. The charge should be made the f2 active attack and it should be instant.
Boar = bones
Warthog = skulls
Siamoth = feathers
Pig = Ectoplasm

All drake attacks should be balls that bounce, and they should turn and track like Bristleback.

River Drake = lightning balls
Ice Drake = freezing orbs
Reef Drake = confusing orbs
Marsh Drake = poison orbs
Salamander Drake = burning orbs

Bears should create combo fields.

Spiders should each attack with a specific condition.

Cats should all move 25% faster and have increased leap distance. These are the pets that will stick to you like glue.

Archon.6480:

I really think the other pets F2 abilities need to be turned into something useful. Each one should have something that make other players have a bad day. Think about it:

Smokescale = Oh my gosh nasty pet jumped me!
Bristleback = Dodge the rapid fire spike barrage!

These pets are neat because the opponents need to learn their mechanics. The other pets can mostly be ignored. Let’s change that:

Fern Hound = 600 Range: Resistance, Regen 5s
Wolf = 600 Range : Fear, Cripple 3s base
Drakehound = Immobolize, Slow 3s base
Ice Wolf = Chill, Weakness, 6s base
Triple leap range so they can connect with it. This will be the thing that makes them stand out. When they leap at you.

Black Moa = 600 Range AoE Boon Corruption (2 boons)
White Moa = 600 Range AoE Boon Removal (2 boon)
Pink Moa = 600 Range Apply 2 Random Boons
Blue Moa = 600 Range Convert 2 Conditions into Boons
Red Moa = 600 Range Copy 2 boons to Allies

Birds should give bird specific boon and swiftness on quickening screech.

Pigs should be changed to always forage the same item and it should be like swoop, on auto. The charge should be made the f2 active attack and it should be instant.
Boar = bones
Warthog = skulls
Siamoth = feathers
Pig = Ectoplasm

All drake attacks should be balls that bounce, and they should turn and track like Bristleback.

River Drake = lightning balls
Ice Drake = freezing orbs
Reef Drake = confusing orbs
Marsh Drake = poison orbs
Salamander Drake = burning orbs

Bears should create combo fields.

Spiders should each attack with a specific condition.

Cats should all move 25% faster and have increased leap distance. These are the pets that will stick to you like glue.

I don’t think wolf need a F2 buff if you already give it a longer leap. 2 seconds of hard CC is strong already. I agree with the rest of dog buffs though.

Only reason I use smokescale over cats is the mobility aspect: cats take too long to initiate combat in PvP. Agree with increasing their mobility.

Really nice suggestion about pig mechanics. And I’ve always felt bears should be more supportive.

Moas aren’t going to work just because you change their F2s. The problem is the heal imo: it doesn’t activate. I’ve tested having my rager take damage and with for the moa to heal me, but it wouldn’t.

Agree about quickening screech needing something more.

Your spider suggetion is vague, and I’m not so sure it’s better than just working on their F2s.

Wyverns would be good if only their auto attacks could connect with moving targets (good in terms of usefulness – I’m not a fan of their animations).

I reckon spiders should have their F2s become ground targeted attacks that the player can aim to give them more versatility, perhaps even doing the same with the Wyverns would make their F2s more appealing..

psizone.8437:

I reckon spiders should have their F2s become ground targeted attacks that the player can aim to give them more versatility, perhaps even doing the same with the Wyverns would make their F2s more appealing..

How about we greatly speed up all f2 attacks so they actually hit instead?

Swagger.1459:

psizone.8437:

I reckon spiders should have their F2s become ground targeted attacks that the player can aim to give them more versatility, perhaps even doing the same with the Wyverns would make their F2s more appealing..

How about we greatly speed up all f2 attacks so they actually hit instead?

Why not both? I agree though, the F2s in general are quite unreliable at times.