Guild Wars 2

Kal Spiro.9745:

Chrispy.5641:

This is one of those wait and see things for me. If you are really going to complain about the fact that we have to choose which longbow traits to take, you should consider that Engineers are forced to do that with their Rifles already.

You have to also consider that there might be other changes coming to the Ranger as well. Signet changes, changes to the longbow’s skills, etc.

I’m not defending Anet’s design decisions or anything, because I freaking hate them sometimes too. But I am saying that the reaction to this may be a little over the top.

It may be over the top, but after a year and a half of being handed a pile of dog doo and being told it’s a shiny new car, AND that I should be happy about it, I think it’s somewhat reasonable to have low expectations of their treatment of our chosen class.

No you’re right. Expectations for…anything related to the Ranger is lower than dinosaur bones right now, but, I would still say that the amount of complaining without even knowing how the skill will work yet is approaching critical mass, and its been barely a day.

Neither piercing arrows nor eagle eye are “essential” traits, they’re nice perks, but they’re hardly a requirement, if you can’t position yourself so that your arrows can find your mark that’s bad play, just because you’re using piercing arrows as a crutch instead of learning to play better doesn’t mean it’s mandatory.

And eagle eye is even FURTHER (no pun intended) from being essential than piercing arrows, at 1500 range NO ONE can retaliate especially if your arrows are flying super fast, if those also pierced? Good god we’d be ridiculous.

This is an MMO, other people play this, there NEEDS to be counter play, and dealing around 5k damage AUTO ATTACKS from 1500 range that would pierce and would be really hard to dodge? That’s not fun for the receiving end at all.

Yeaaaah.

This doesn’t really cut it as a GM trait compared to the other options, and even the existing options. Maybe as an Adept trait, or baked into another trait, but no way is this worth a Grandmaster.

Chrispy.5641:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Chrispy.5641:

This is one of those wait and see things for me. If you are really going to complain about the fact that we have to choose which longbow traits to take, you should consider that Engineers are forced to do that with their Rifles already.

You have to also consider that there might be other changes coming to the Ranger as well. Signet changes, changes to the longbow’s skills, etc.

I’m not defending Anet’s design decisions or anything, because I freaking hate them sometimes too. But I am saying that the reaction to this may be a little over the top.

It may be over the top, but after a year and a half of being handed a pile of dog doo and being told it’s a shiny new car, AND that I should be happy about it, I think it’s somewhat reasonable to have low expectations of their treatment of our chosen class.

No you’re right. Expectations for…anything related to the Ranger is lower than dinosaur bones right now, but, I would still say that the amount of complaining without even knowing how the skill will work yet is approaching critical mass, and its been barely a day.

While I do like to see the skills before I judge them, is there a reason we should expect the trait to not work exactly as worded? To simply increase the travel speed of longbow projectiles and nothing more?

A 30pt trait that not only works on a single weapon, but really only will have any noticeable impact on a single skill of said weapon?

Developer: and as a GRANDMASTER trait we are going to make the longbow playable!! that should shut them up about that pet thing eh?

On more serious note yea the longbow is already a decent weapon but I don’t see this changing anything. At least the other classes didn’t get anything cool or ridiculously strong or unneeded right?

“Warrior: dual wield warriors attack 10% faster…. "

At least it wasn’t something for GS eh?

Durzlla.6295:

Neither piercing arrows nor eagle eye are “essential” traits, they’re nice perks, but they’re hardly a requirement, if you can’t position yourself so that your arrows can find your mark that’s bad play, just because you’re using piercing arrows as a crutch instead of learning to play better doesn’t mean it’s mandatory.

And eagle eye is even FURTHER (no pun intended) from being essential than piercing arrows, at 1500 range NO ONE can retaliate especially if your arrows are flying super fast, if those also pierced? Good god we’d be ridiculous.

This is an MMO, other people play this, there NEEDS to be counter play, and dealing around 5k damage AUTO ATTACKS from 1500 range that would pierce and would be really hard to dodge? That’s not fun for the receiving end at all.

Durzlla, the point they’re making is you have to choose between Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, Spotter, and Signet of the Beastmaster to choose this trait. Do you honestly think improved projectile speed is worth more than any of the other listed traits? A trait that only affects a single weapon, and will only have a noticeable impact on a single skill of that weapon?

Unless there’s some hidden mechanic that isn’t written on this trait, I’d have trouble justifying this as anything but a minor adept trait…

I could see this trait being big for PvP.

It will do nothing for PvE.

The warrior trait however…

@ Durzlla: No dude, I play it professional.

1500 Range is essential if you want to hit or catch anything in WWW.
Lot of classes just teleport or go invulnerable+swiftness, so you can not catch anyone whos not a complete idiot or beginner.
Otherwise you need to find that one rock where you can hit the targets up on walls before you go “Out of Range”. One step closer its “Obstructed” but still visibly hitting the target. Not hard to do, just very lame!
So? Essential.

Piercing Arrows: Without it, you just don’t get any loot compared to else – because of very slow ROF and arrow velocity. Without this piercing, we would just die when risens spawn in our faces… can’t outheal their attacks. Only THIS trait keeps crit LB rangers in a good position, since the DPS multiples, and we’re kind of equal for a while.
So? Can be Essential.

Don’t forget, we’re the dedicater “unparelled” archers. We need to handle these bows more than anyone else.
What is their counterplay you ask? Invulnerabilities, extra outheals, outdmg us, teleporting, STEALTH, and thief autofollow.

I would say BUFF the base ROF, Range and Velocity of LB instead of traiting it.
These “update notes” makes a new joke of us – as you see the comments and reasonably groving hatred.

Atherakhia.4086:

Chrispy.5641:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Chrispy.5641:

This is one of those wait and see things for me. If you are really going to complain about the fact that we have to choose which longbow traits to take, you should consider that Engineers are forced to do that with their Rifles already.

You have to also consider that there might be other changes coming to the Ranger as well. Signet changes, changes to the longbow’s skills, etc.

I’m not defending Anet’s design decisions or anything, because I freaking hate them sometimes too. But I am saying that the reaction to this may be a little over the top.

It may be over the top, but after a year and a half of being handed a pile of dog doo and being told it’s a shiny new car, AND that I should be happy about it, I think it’s somewhat reasonable to have low expectations of their treatment of our chosen class.

No you’re right. Expectations for…anything related to the Ranger is lower than dinosaur bones right now, but, I would still say that the amount of complaining without even knowing how the skill will work yet is approaching critical mass, and its been barely a day.

While I do like to see the skills before I judge them, is there a reason we should expect the trait to not work exactly as worded? To simply increase the travel speed of longbow projectiles and nothing more?

A 30pt trait that not only works on a single weapon, but really only will have any noticeable impact on a single skill of said weapon?

It will work on 4 skills. AA, obviously. Rapid fire will get to the target faster, which is probably good. Hunter’s Shot should stealth us faster, which is meh. Point Blank Shot might actually knock the target back faster, potentially cutting half a second off their down time, so that’s actually detrimental to us. So that +1 +1 +0 -1 leaving us with only a +1, so I guess evens out to one skill.

Atherakhia.4086:

Durzlla.6295:

Neither piercing arrows nor eagle eye are “essential” traits, they’re nice perks, but they’re hardly a requirement, if you can’t position yourself so that your arrows can find your mark that’s bad play, just because you’re using piercing arrows as a crutch instead of learning to play better doesn’t mean it’s mandatory.

And eagle eye is even FURTHER (no pun intended) from being essential than piercing arrows, at 1500 range NO ONE can retaliate especially if your arrows are flying super fast, if those also pierced? Good god we’d be ridiculous.

This is an MMO, other people play this, there NEEDS to be counter play, and dealing around 5k damage AUTO ATTACKS from 1500 range that would pierce and would be really hard to dodge? That’s not fun for the receiving end at all.

Durzlla, the point they’re making is you have to choose between Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, Spotter, and Signet of the Beastmaster to choose this trait. Do you honestly think improved projectile speed is worth more than any of the other listed traits? A trait that only affects a single weapon, and will only have a noticeable impact on a single skill of that weapon?

Unless there’s some hidden mechanic that isn’t written on this trait, I’d have trouble justifying this as anything but a minor adept trait…

What? You have to pick between several good traits? It’s almost like they want you to make a meaningful choice. Just think of the horrors!! Everyone could have a different build!!

Durz, that would be all well and good if Rangers were actually good. Most of us don’t think so. 0×2 is still 0.

While marksmanship got this crap please consider the CDI revolved mostly around our pet and how useless it was. Several people asked for the aspects other asked for a total removal and other such as me recommanded a major pet stat scaling buff to power critical damage and other stats wich so far made the pet crappy. Before judging them on what they done to marksmanship i want to know what they will do for beast mastery and skirmishing traitlines. Beast mastery grandmaster trait behing so far useless (i go 30 only because i want to have +300 not for the grandmaster) i can see them puting some heavy pet damage bonus in the balance as a grandmaster

So like, it’s been laid out many times for Anet how to help the ranger out. This in NO WAY helps build diversity or the viability of power ranger (since we have to give up eagle eye or piercing arrows skills). This applies more for PvP but… whatever that skirmishing grandmaster is… better be godly.

As Chilly says so. Our BASE STATS needs to be inproved first to be useable at all, then we can speak about sharping it out.

Durzlla.6295:

Atherakhia.4086:

Durzlla.6295:

Neither piercing arrows nor eagle eye are “essential” traits, they’re nice perks, but they’re hardly a requirement, if you can’t position yourself so that your arrows can find your mark that’s bad play, just because you’re using piercing arrows as a crutch instead of learning to play better doesn’t mean it’s mandatory.

And eagle eye is even FURTHER (no pun intended) from being essential than piercing arrows, at 1500 range NO ONE can retaliate especially if your arrows are flying super fast, if those also pierced? Good god we’d be ridiculous.

This is an MMO, other people play this, there NEEDS to be counter play, and dealing around 5k damage AUTO ATTACKS from 1500 range that would pierce and would be really hard to dodge? That’s not fun for the receiving end at all.

Durzlla, the point they’re making is you have to choose between Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, Spotter, and Signet of the Beastmaster to choose this trait. Do you honestly think improved projectile speed is worth more than any of the other listed traits? A trait that only affects a single weapon, and will only have a noticeable impact on a single skill of that weapon?

Unless there’s some hidden mechanic that isn’t written on this trait, I’d have trouble justifying this as anything but a minor adept trait…

What? You have to pick between several good traits? It’s almost like they want you to make a meaningful choice. Just think of the horrors!! Everyone could have a different build!!

Again, you’re missing the point. We have to choose between good traits as it is right now. The tree is too bloated to build a proper longbow ranger right now. This trait isn’t even good. No one’s going to choose it over the other 4. I’m not sure someone would choose it over remorseless!

There are 2 scenarios for this trait… either it’s not a trait at all and given to longbow regardless. Or it’s a minor adept trait.

I mean, are you honestly trying to pretend it’s worthy of a 30pt trait in the Marks tree? Are you a troll now?

sort of sad they didn’t apply this to short bows as well :/

RoyalPredator.9163:

@ Durzlla: No dude, I play it professional.

1500 Range is essential if you want to hit or catch anything in WWW.
Lot of classes just teleport or go invulnerable+swiftness, so you can not catch anyone whos not a complete idiot or beginner.
Otherwise you need to find that one rock where you can hit the targets up on walls before you go “Out of Range”. One step closer its “Obstructed” but still visibly hitting the target. Not hard to do, just very lame!
So? Essential.

Piercing Arrows: Without it, you just don’t get any loot compared to else – because of very slow ROF and arrow velocity. Without this piercing, we would just die when risens spawn in our faces… can’t outheal their attacks. Only THIS trait keeps crit LB rangers in a good position, since the DPS multiples, and we’re kind of equal for a while.
So? Can be Essential.

Don’t forget, we’re the dedicater “unparelled” archers. We need to handle these bows more than anyone else.
What is their counterplay you ask? Invulnerabilities, extra outheals, outdmg us, teleporting, STEALTH, and thief autofollow.

I would say BUFF the base ROF, Range and Velocity of LB instead of traiting it.
These “update notes” makes a new joke of us – as you see the comments and reasonably groving hatred.

Please tell me how Elementalists, Thieves, Guardians, Warriors, Necromancers, and Mesmers even stay competitive in WvW if you NEED 1500 range, because last i checked only Nade engis and LB ranger even got that luxury.

And you can’t “Out heal it” we don’t have HEALERS, not to mention we are the kings of sustained damage, it’s not like you dodge our burst and then heal up the paper cuts you sustain until the next one comes.

Also, how does someone outdamage us when we are at LEAST 300 units outside their range? And that’s assuming they even have the luxury of a 1200 range weapon, and that you’re not just side stepping their slow moving projectiles.

‘Read the Wind’ should have been an Adept trait or merged with ‘Eagle Eye’ in my humble opinion. It is nowhere near GM level in its current state.

I’ve suggested a whole new mechanics, not pet buff or permastow ^^
End of Weapon CoolDowns, buffing the skills we have for Hunting & surviving.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Atherakhia.4086:

Chrispy.5641:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Chrispy.5641:

This is one of those wait and see things for me. If you are really going to complain about the fact that we have to choose which longbow traits to take, you should consider that Engineers are forced to do that with their Rifles already.

You have to also consider that there might be other changes coming to the Ranger as well. Signet changes, changes to the longbow’s skills, etc.

I’m not defending Anet’s design decisions or anything, because I freaking hate them sometimes too. But I am saying that the reaction to this may be a little over the top.

It may be over the top, but after a year and a half of being handed a pile of dog doo and being told it’s a shiny new car, AND that I should be happy about it, I think it’s somewhat reasonable to have low expectations of their treatment of our chosen class.

No you’re right. Expectations for…anything related to the Ranger is lower than dinosaur bones right now, but, I would still say that the amount of complaining without even knowing how the skill will work yet is approaching critical mass, and its been barely a day.

While I do like to see the skills before I judge them, is there a reason we should expect the trait to not work exactly as worded? To simply increase the travel speed of longbow projectiles and nothing more?

A 30pt trait that not only works on a single weapon, but really only will have any noticeable impact on a single skill of said weapon?

It will work on 4 skills. AA, obviously. Rapid fire will get to the target faster, which is probably good. Hunter’s Shot should stealth us faster, which is meh. Point Blank Shot might actually knock the target back faster, potentially cutting half a second off their down time, so that’s actually detrimental to us. So that +1 +1 +0 -1 leaving us with only a +1, so I guess evens out to one skill.

Now I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and I’m not trying to troll you or anything. But lets look at these skills honestly for a moment.

I will start off by saying that you’re right. The trait will obviously affect all of the skills. I’m questioning if it’s useful for any of them.

Rapid Fire: At max range, this skill isn’t worth using because it’s not a real damage increase. At anything but max range, is sidestepping an issue for this skill? I’d argue it’s not. It’s not much of an issue for auto attack either.

Hunter’s Shot: This is another skill that isn’t really used at max range. It’s a defensive skill used to escape a melee already on you 9 times out of 10.

Point Blank Shot: Again, more of a defensive skill that you should be using to knock people back who are close.

Barrage: This one is likely not going to have any real impact from the trait at all.

Like I said, you’re absolutely right… each skill will benefit from it. But do you really need the trait for any of these? I’d argue no.

Atherakhia.4086:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Atherakhia.4086:

Chrispy.5641:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Chrispy.5641:

This is one of those wait and see things for me. If you are really going to complain about the fact that we have to choose which longbow traits to take, you should consider that Engineers are forced to do that with their Rifles already.

You have to also consider that there might be other changes coming to the Ranger as well. Signet changes, changes to the longbow’s skills, etc.

I’m not defending Anet’s design decisions or anything, because I freaking hate them sometimes too. But I am saying that the reaction to this may be a little over the top.

It may be over the top, but after a year and a half of being handed a pile of dog doo and being told it’s a shiny new car, AND that I should be happy about it, I think it’s somewhat reasonable to have low expectations of their treatment of our chosen class.

No you’re right. Expectations for…anything related to the Ranger is lower than dinosaur bones right now, but, I would still say that the amount of complaining without even knowing how the skill will work yet is approaching critical mass, and its been barely a day.

While I do like to see the skills before I judge them, is there a reason we should expect the trait to not work exactly as worded? To simply increase the travel speed of longbow projectiles and nothing more?

A 30pt trait that not only works on a single weapon, but really only will have any noticeable impact on a single skill of said weapon?

It will work on 4 skills. AA, obviously. Rapid fire will get to the target faster, which is probably good. Hunter’s Shot should stealth us faster, which is meh. Point Blank Shot might actually knock the target back faster, potentially cutting half a second off their down time, so that’s actually detrimental to us. So that +1 +1 +0 -1 leaving us with only a +1, so I guess evens out to one skill.

Now I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and I’m not trying to troll you or anything. But lets look at these skills honestly for a moment.

I will start off by saying that you’re right. The trait will obviously affect all of the skills. I’m questioning if it’s useful for any of them.

Rapid Fire: At max range, this skill isn’t worth using because it’s not a real damage increase. At anything but max range, is sidestepping an issue for this skill? I’d argue it’s not. It’s not much of an issue for auto attack either.

Hunter’s Shot: This is another skill that isn’t really used at max range. It’s a defensive skill used to escape a melee already on you 9 times out of 10.

Point Blank Shot: Again, more of a defensive skill that you should be using to knock people back who are close.

Barrage: This one is likely not going to have any real impact from the trait at all.

Like I said, you’re absolutely right… each skill will benefit from it. But do you really need the trait for any of these? I’d argue no.

I was actually making a joke more than an argument. It really serves very little purpose nor use as you were saying. That’s why I rated the changes at the end. I still think it should be at least somewhat more useful than not for rapid fire, but that’s really it.

Maybe I am hoping too much but what if read the wind was actually a perma quickness while wielding a bow XD

But actually part of my complaint is the fact that we have SO many longbow skills in the marksmanship trait line it is really detrimental to have to choose between them…

if this is a preview of new ranger features to come, then there is truly no hope for us. theyre fixing a broken weapon with a GM trait…great. also, why cant these high velocity arrows pierce? do i seriously have to trait for that as well?

did you see what the other professions are getting? massive, game-changing utility or huge survivability boosts. we get NEITHER.

im at most intrigued by this announcement, but i honestly dont think we’ll see any significant changes until the suggested CDI revamps are implemented. i’ll give the ranger another year.

RoyalPredator.9163:

As Chilly says so. Our BASE STATS needs to be inproved first to be useable at all, then we can speak about sharping it out.

Which, is linked to pets, and pretty much all issues with pets need to be worked on still.

Reality Check Time:

1) We have no idea if the traits will be redistributed across lines.
2) We have but one example of one GM trait (every line gets a new one) of each class and are comparing based on that single point of reference.
3) The Trait itself isn’t bad IF it comes with something else like increasing attack speed
4) They may very well be adjusting the LB too

What I can say based on the blog is that the changes coming are significant and I would much prefer seeing big change versus wimpy change.

kiwituatara.6053:

“More than any class in the game, Ranger requires a significant investment in traits before a large number of their utility skills are even work slotting.” – (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/page/42#post3727854)

Now look at the Longbow…
Piercing Arrow
Eagle Eye
Quick Draw
Read the Wind

And arguable Remorseless since its only useful if you’re using the stealth on Longbow.

After an entire year of waiting, an entire year of having to trait 30pts just to get signets to work, 30 pts just to get decent condition removal, or 30pts just to get traps to work… what do we get?
We need to trait 50pts for longbow and that doesn’t even cover all 5 Longbow traits.

PS. Longbow sucks. #RangerFrustration

Pretty much this…

Before the trait changes… The unparalleled archer and attrition master Ranger, along with his trusty and useless pet, are being laughed at by the Warrior standing still absorbing arrow attacks while his buddy the Thief does the Nightcrawler act and bursts you down in seconds.

After the trait changes… The unparalleled archer and attrition master Ranger, along with his/her trusty and useless pet, are still being laughed at by the Warrior standing still absorbing arrow attacks while his buddy the Thief does the Nightcrawler act and bursts you down in seconds.

Tbh, I’m rolling on the floor, laughing…
Seriosuly, if there’s no kittening reason to use Longbow, why take the trait that will even FURTHER push it into closet…. I mean, it takes grandmaster place and does nothing since you won’t be able to use Longbow on more than 500-900 range outside fo World Bosses and maybe zergblobbing.

Looking at other traits, especially Mesmer’s (yay! GW1 Mes coming back. Finally a reason to level up pinky!), Elementalist’s (some float toward Healing dedicated specs.. Might be fun) and even more… I don’t feel that there’s a reason to try Ranger ever again.

Shows Devs’ understanding of Ranged combat problems… Grandmaster thing that should be implemented as default... Still same boring traits, same kitten over again..

Ranger is lost. Adding super-duper trait which means that prevents people from walking over your arrows. Now they have to strafe faster! /sigh

I dont see how doubling the projectile speed will make a difference. People rarely dodged the arrows before. Now if they are doubling the base attack speed (yea right), then that will be a significant change for us.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I dont see how doubling the projectile speed will make a difference. People rarely dodged the arrows before. Now if they are doubling the base attack speed (yea right), then that will be a significant change for us.

Would be nice, but that would be insanely overpowered and way to strong for a trait, since it will be a must have.

Well, Roy posted in the GW2 forum, so I took the opportunity to see if he’d give us any insight in to the trait. We’ll see if he replies.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I dont see how doubling the projectile speed will make a difference. People rarely dodged the arrows before. Now if they are doubling the base attack speed (yea right), then that will be a significant change for us.

That would be similar to autoattacking for 12k.

He just replied he and Karl will be explaining it tomorrow on the livestream.

Read The Wind is definitely not GM trait worthy. Minor trait at best.

smitske.4912:

DeadlySynz.3471:

I dont see how doubling the projectile speed will make a difference. People rarely dodged the arrows before. Now if they are doubling the base attack speed (yea right), then that will be a significant change for us.

Would be nice, but that would be insanely overpowered and way to strong for a trait, since it will be a must have.

smitske.4912:

DeadlySynz.3471:

I dont see how doubling the projectile speed will make a difference. People rarely dodged the arrows before. Now if they are doubling the base attack speed (yea right), then that will be a significant change for us.

Would be nice, but that would be insanely overpowered and way to strong for a trait, since it will be a must have.

I agree, it would simply be the hands down top build for a Ranger.. which of course , kill diversity.

Now as I’m looking back at my full dps build on my Ranger, there is no room for this new trait without taking a significant damage loss in Marksmanship. I wouldn’t give up the increase in Longbow Range (1 useful thing the longbow has going for it). I wouldn’t give up piercing arrows (decent AoE if you want to call it that). Nor would I give up doing more damage when my endurance is full (which it always is as I’m 1500 range away (no need to dodge).

If they stuck this trait in skirmishing, I can see more of a use for it there.

I’ll reserve judgement until I hear their explanation on it.

All casts on bows twice as fast? That would make our passive “power” even greater. Simply autoattack…over…and over..

Ranger needs an overhaul and something extra to poor mechanic.

Truth be told, every time I faced a long bow ranger I straffed most of their burst damage skilled and went in for the kill. Now longbow rangers will have a more reliable way to make sure the damage lands and that longbow has a more meaningful purpose.

We have been thus far discussing the negative sides of having ONLY double the speed on these projectile, however fellow rangers as you all well know, that is not the only thing that is lackluster. The key to the success of this will be on how you personally use it. I can already see a lot of glassy (or high crit for that matter) WvW zerg surfing rangers taking advantage of this to deliver big numbers.

What is more interesting is in fact the other 4 unknown GM traits and how they can be used to expand the ranger’s potential.

awge.3852:

The key to the success of this will be on how you personally use it. I can already see a lot of glassy (or high crit for that matter) WvW zerg surfing rangers taking advantage of this to deliver big numbers.

If you’re going to skirt along a zerg, you don’t need faster arrows and you don’t want to give up the piercing. Just fire in to the middle of the zerg and you’ll hit several people with each arrow.

The other competing trait not only directly increases your damage a significant amount, but also allows your glassy butt to be out of direct harm by giving you the best range in the game.

I could see someone roaming going EE for the damage bonus and RtW for the faster arrows. Piercing is not that important even in as much as about 5v5. Although in that scenario spotter and remorseless come in to the mix. And I guess the signet trait is always in the mix. There is just no room.

Compare Read the Wind to the other Grandmaster traits in Marksmanship.

Versus Signet of the Beastmaster: SotBM should be inherent to begin with, and I much prefer running with a mix of survival skills on my bar then dedication my utilities to signets and a trait that in all honesty is just a poor development choice, that I’d only be taking to give me a reason to activate my signets.

Verdict: I would choose Read the Wind over Signet of the Beastmaster anyday.

Versus Remorseless: I actually like remorseless, however, I think that overall, Read the Wind is going to be more valuable by making the arrows we shoot much more difficult to evade across all ranges, and I would speculate that the DPS lost at ranges where arrows don’t track well and are easily avoidable is more worthwhile to gain through Read the Wind than reapplying Opening Strikes, unless Opening Strikes gets some new, additional mechanic built into it that actually helps power builds (like boon removal).

Verdict: I choose Read the Wind over Remorseless any day.

For me, that makes it the best in slot option when evaluating it against its other grandmaster alternatives alone. Is it always the best choice? Well, that just depends on the build preferences. I wouldn’t be choosing Spotter over it, because I’d rather land my arrows than make my more inconsistent arrows do slightly more RNG chance damage, and I already choose Spotter over Piercing Arrows because I prefer random damage boosts to random arrow pierce cleave.

So yeah, I’d probably end up with Read the Wind on my bar for a few of my different builds.

However, please remember everybody that this is just an announcement of a new grandmaster trait. There are still potential trait and weapon balances, 4 more grandmaster traits, and an entire rune and weapon sigil rework.

Judging based off the smallest glimpse of the big picture and getting frustrated is just a waste of energy at this point. Wait until we know more information before we start grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

awge.3852:

Truth be told, every time I faced a long bow ranger I straffed most of their burst damage skilled and went in for the kill. Now longbow rangers will have a more reliable way to make sure the damage lands and that longbow has a more meaningful purpose.

We have been thus far discussing the negative sides of having ONLY double the speed on these projectile, however fellow rangers as you all well know, that is not the only thing that is lackluster. The key to the success of this will be on how you personally use it. I can already see a lot of glassy (or high crit for that matter) WvW zerg surfing rangers taking advantage of this to deliver big numbers.

What is more interesting is in fact the other 4 unknown GM traits and how they can be used to expand the ranger’s potential.

I’m a zerg surfer so to speak. My arrows never missed. Kind of hard to see an arrow coming with a bunch of weapons being swung in your face while hoards of AoE is being dropped all around you.

You guys need to keep in mind that as they’re introducing new grandmaster traits they’re likely going to move some of the old ones around and possibly drop some to the lower tiers (seeing as we have so many grandmaster traits that don’t even deserve an adept slot). So I wouldn’t be thinking “what to sacrifice to get it?” just yet. Hopefully tomorrow’s Ready Up will be not as rushed and childishly presented as the preview we got some months ago.

Instead of flaming Anet, I’m going to say this:

The ranger was originally described as an unparallelled archer. This was later changed. Even though the definition of ranger is not about “range”, rangers should still be more professional with ranged weapons. Rangers ususually have a bow because they are woodman and they hunt. Each trait listed changes something unique to the class and more or less global too. The Read the Wind trait changes one thing on one weapon. It would be much more welcomed if it increased the speed of every projectiles, or at least the two bows.

Even more welcome would be if the trait was paired with extra fire rate and double projectile speed for both bows.

“Feeling let down” by this news. Will wait and see what happens.

We could be guardians complaining about +3k extra vitality… lol makes me feel like a pauper staring through a window while the rich dine, please siiirr may I have some..?

solrik.6028:

Instead of flaming Anet, I’m going to say this:

The ranger was originally described as an unparallelled archer. This was later changed. Even though the definition of ranger is not about “range”, rangers should still be more professional with ranged weapons. Rangers ususually have a bow because they are woodman and they hunt. Each trait listed changes something unique to the class and more or less global too. The Read the Wind trait changes one thing on one weapon. It would be much more welcomed if it increased the speed of every projectiles, or at least the two bows.

Even more welcome would be if the trait was paired with extra fire rate and double projectile speed for both bows.

Have to agree here. At present time ‘Read the Wind’ feels very lackluster in its present state and would be more suited as an Adept trait or merged with Eagle Eye or Piercing Arrows. It would have been a lot better in my opinion if it would increase projectile speed on both Longbow and Shortbow and increased firing rate. That might have made it worthy of a GM trait.

Shirk.6421:

To be honest, if the rest of the traits we get new are like that… I mean, what the actual kitten. A grandmaster trait for something that should already work from the beginning? You don’t even need to dodge, simple sidestepping and you’re safe… For what does the longbow has this much range if it won’t work. Welcome to the ranger. When I look at the mesmer’s one, I’d like to puke. "The new trait for mesmers allows them to gain additional benefit when disrupting enemy skills. Power Block will be introduced to the Domination line and will change the recharge of an interrupted skill from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. "

Agreed.

I like the new trait, and the current bow centered traits, but the main problem is that they need to be condensed or made an innate function of the bows, not bloated even further.

RoyalPredator.9163:

@ Durzlla: No dude, I play it professional.

1500 Range is essential if you want to hit or catch anything in WWW.
Lot of classes just teleport or go invulnerable+swiftness, so you can not catch anyone whos not a complete idiot or beginner.
Otherwise you need to find that one rock where you can hit the targets up on walls before you go “Out of Range”. One step closer its “Obstructed” but still visibly hitting the target. Not hard to do, just very lame!
So? Essential.

Piercing Arrows: Without it, you just don’t get any loot compared to else – because of very slow ROF and arrow velocity. Without this piercing, we would just die when risens spawn in our faces… can’t outheal their attacks. Only THIS trait keeps crit LB rangers in a good position, since the DPS multiples, and we’re kind of equal for a while.
So? Can be Essential.

Don’t forget, we’re the dedicater “unparelled” archers. We need to handle these bows more than anyone else.
What is their counterplay you ask? Invulnerabilities, extra outheals, outdmg us, teleporting, STEALTH, and thief autofollow.

I would say BUFF the base ROF, Range and Velocity of LB instead of traiting it.
These “update notes” makes a new joke of us – as you see the comments and reasonably groving hatred.

Atleast we got something much better then warriors. Much much better. (well, so far since noone knows what the other 4 traits are on any prof)

Also, reading your post Royal, i cannot in any way discern that the “requirements” you list for WvW, in any shape or form, insinuate that you play this on a professional level. Dedicated, yes, professional, no.

Durzlla.6295:

Please tell me how Elementalists, Thieves, Guardians, Warriors, Necromancers, and Mesmers even stay competitive in WvW if you NEED 1500 range, because last i checked only Nade engis and LB ranger even got that luxury.

1. Zergs are on perma swiftness, their waving drives you close enough to get AOE or Immobilises in your face. Or even worse.
2. Most of classes are unreasonably agile, have rush skills like teleporting, roaming, etc. This current 1200 range disappears within a blink of an eye.
3. This would solve the major hit errors comming from bad distance calculation of the engine itself.
   But okay, I’m not in the NEED for this +300 range, just would make a decent difference between other ranged weapon users, so they may like us a bit more even in WWW.

Durzlla.6295:

And you can’t “Out heal it” we don’t have HEALERS, not to mention we are the kings of sustained damage, it’s not like you dodge our burst and then heal up the paper cuts you sustain until the next one comes.

- We have healers. They’re called Water Eles. Now AN will support them. Holy Trinity is unbrakeable, it is the way the world works, can’t hack that. GW2’s bless is the chance to heal up yourself ~good.

Durzlla.6295:

Also, how does someone outdamage us when we are at LEAST 300 units outside their range? And that’s assuming they even have the luxury of a 1200 range weapon, and that you’re not just side stepping their slow moving projectiles.

- As said above, 300++ range disappears by a single click, no mutch advantage in this.
When you fight against something ranged, what you do? Do the same or appear in its face.
So I’m not sure if you’re just trolling or never played the game itself more than a couple of days…

Rym.1469:

All casts on bows twice as fast? That would make our passive “power” even greater. Simply autoattack…over…and over..
Ranger needs an overhaul and something extra to poor mechanic.

- This is exactly why I force 12Bar Endurance/Stamina/(initiative) for RANGERS, GW1Assasin chains for Thieves and GW1Warrior Adrenalin building for Warriors.
If they really think of Revolutionary features and improving combat, then they should really go climb back on this ladder. Just imagine how awesome would it work out. Our skills would be balanced nicely even without bigger dmg changes, and thieves/warriors wouldnt be deadbrain class.

@ Piercing Arrows: Not important? Just when I knockback multiple foes (Today I just pushed down a necro and a thief off from Sunnyhill’s cliffs hahahah), or when you support your allies by making a competitive damage this case…
I wouldn’t try solo-capping Supply Camps without this trait unleast I’m not a bunker, which I will never be. I like to play double or nothing where my playing skills matters, and not to abuse design flaws of the balance as rest of players does. One more reason for me not to show up in spvp at all.

I’m playing on 20 or 25 point on Marksmanship, so my fear will be I lost any of the build that keeps my “devil may cry-like” skirmishing playstyle. Sorry but I need some HP and Regen too, but can’t sacrifice a zerker gear with divinity runes without losing dmg, which is just on edge of being competitive in WWW. Guess the only reason my character can work is the way/velocity I handle it.

You guys know what? Passive effect of Rampage as One, that would be a nice Read of the Wind. If not an unchangeable 5 or 15 fix trait on Marksmanship, where it steals no essential traits we love and our worth depend on.

I must say I cannot see eye-to-eye with anyone being optimistic about this grandmaster trait. After shortbow getting nerfed so that longbow looks better and Allie acknowledging that we have utilities not being worth the slot without traiting them we get another trait that doesn’t add anything interesting to Longbow at all. It just makes up for lack of umpf. Are there any other classes in game with 5 traits aimed at making one of their weapons viable??? Not OP, viable.

And needing piercing arrows to make up for a lack of skill? Come on man, will positioning help you deal with minion master necros or spirit rangers? Realy? Longbow is a damage weapon which was designed to deal max damage at long range. It was bad at that in pvp, and now they add a grandmaster trait to compensate? I wonder if they will revert the autoattack projectile speed buffs as well so you take this trait? This is just bullcat.

Why Read the Wind is not an utility skill is beyond me. Why Guild Wars 1 preps are not utility skills is beyond me, too.

Shirk.6421:

To be honest, if the rest of the traits we get new are like that… I mean, what the actual kitten. A grandmaster trait for something that should already work from the beginning? You don’t even need to dodge, simple sidestepping and you’re safe… For what does the longbow has this much range if it won’t work. Welcome to the ranger. When I look at the mesmer’s one, I’d like to puke. "The new trait for mesmers allows them to gain additional benefit when disrupting enemy skills. Power Block will be introduced to the Domination line and will change the recharge of an interrupted skill from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. "

This! I was beginning to think I was crazy because this is so baffling.

This feels like I’m getting hustled. Like I just bought a new vacuum cleaner that only turns on half the time and when I call customer support they say, “We have a fix for it, but in order to receive it, we need you to send us your favorite pet kitten.”

At least make the thing a major trait. It would only make sense if they really buffed longbow’s damage because as it is, my autoattack pales in comparison to other classes’ autoattacks.

The most frustrating thing is that they could have discussed this in the CDI and received feedback or something (because I really wonder if any of the balance team seriously plays ranger enough to have an idea of what the player who mains ranger experiences.)