Guild Wars 2

KensaiZen.3740:

Hang on a minute… so let me get this right. You don’t think the Ranger performs very well because it lacks in the area that YOU play in.

I think Im starting to understand whats wrong with this community

You have a poor reading comprehension.

This game has three areas of play; PvE, WvW, and sPvP/tPvP. Every class needs to perform effectively in all three to be absolutely balanced. Unfortunately the developers have some work because most classes do not.

I’m sorry you can not grasp the basic knowledge of the game to understand why this is important.

It’s why I think Guardians and Mesmers need access to a 25% speed boost, why I think Warrior banners need to be placed on a Warriors back, with F2-F5 abilities based off the banners they have equipped, and so on.

I want a fully balanced, and fun game that makes use of everything in it. Nothing in any MMO has bothered me more than an ability that is either useless, or not up to par with other abilities. See the large number of useless weapons, a list compiled from all classes in the game.

Anet once said “every class will be able to do anything”

What Anet didn’t say “Every class will be able to do everything equally well”

Some classes are much better at melee than others. These I call melee classes. They may have builds that allow them to use a ranged weapon. Every class has a ranged weapon. But they really aren’t that good at it.

KensaiZen.3740:

Anet once said “every class will be able to do anything”

What Anet didn’t say “Every class will be able to do everything equally well”

Some classes are much better at melee than others. These I call melee classes. They may have builds that allow them to use a ranged weapon. Every class has a ranged weapon. But they really aren’t that good at it.

And you would be wrong. That is the issue with you. Your lack of knowledge in this game is unreal.

But I’ll bite. What classes are the best at melee, and ranged? This should be good.

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Hang on a minute… so let me get this right. You don’t think the Ranger performs very well because it lacks in the area that YOU play in.

I think Im starting to understand whats wrong with this community

You have a poor reading comprehension.

This game has three areas of play; PvE, WvW, and sPvP/tPvP. Every class needs to perform effectively in all three to be absolutely balanced. Unfortunately the developers have some work because most classes do not.

I’m sorry you can not grasp the basic knowledge of the game to understand why this is important.

It’s why I think Guardians and Mesmers need access to a 25% speed boost, why I think Warrior banners need to be placed on a Warriors back, with F2-F5 abilities based off the banners they have equipped, and so on.

I want a fully balanced, and fun game that makes use of everything in it. Nothing in any MMO has bothered me more than an ability that is either useless, or not up to par with other abilities. See the large number of useless weapons, a list compiled from all classes in the game.

Why you think?. So all this is based on your opinion and whatever you think is correct. Even the game design itself.

Well done you. The only “balanced” aspect to this game was only ever supposed to be SPvP/TPvP. What YOU think the balance was supposed to be is irrelevant.

You are one very deluded individual.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

Uhhh… what? Traited grenade range is 1500 for all grenade skills.

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Anet once said “every class will be able to do anything”

What Anet didn’t say “Every class will be able to do everything equally well”

Some classes are much better at melee than others. These I call melee classes. They may have builds that allow them to use a ranged weapon. Every class has a ranged weapon. But they really aren’t that good at it.

And you would be wrong. That is the issue with you. Your lack of knowledge in this game is unreal.

But I’ll bite. What classes are the best at melee, and ranged? This should be good.

So your asking for my opinion on what “I” consider the best then when it doesn’t conform to “YOUR” opinion I am wrong and lacking knowledge. That’s right isn’t it.

Ever considered what YOU know may not be everything there is to know?. I think we just found the problem.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

Uhhh… what? Traited grenade range is 1500 for all grenade skills.

Sweet, I didn’t know that thanks for telling me. Was it always the case since launch?

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Anet once said “every class will be able to do anything”

What Anet didn’t say “Every class will be able to do everything equally well”

Some classes are much better at melee than others. These I call melee classes. They may have builds that allow them to use a ranged weapon. Every class has a ranged weapon. But they really aren’t that good at it.

But I’ll bite. What classes are the best at melee, and ranged? This should be good.

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

Uhhh… what? Traited grenade range is 1500 for all grenade skills.

Sweet, I didn’t know that thanks for telling me. Was it always the case since launch?

Yes. Grenadier trait.

You may want to look into other classes before claiming the Ranger is ‘the best’ at something. Just a general tip.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

Uhhh… what? Traited grenade range is 1500 for all grenade skills.

Sweet, I didn’t know that thanks for telling me. Was it always the case since launch?

Yes. Grenadier trait.

You may want to look into other classes before claiming the Ranger is ‘the best’ at something. Just a general tip.

So whilst both classes can do damage at 1500 range. What else can the engineer do at that range?

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

Uhhh… what? Traited grenade range is 1500 for all grenade skills.

Sweet, I didn’t know that thanks for telling me. Was it always the case since launch?

Yes. Grenadier trait.

You may want to look into other classes before claiming the Ranger is ‘the best’ at something. Just a general tip.

So whilst both classes can do damage at 1500 range. What else can the engineer do at that range?

What more can a Ranger do at that range, but shoot his bow? Grenades hit HARD.

How do you consider, “best at”? Range only? Let me know when your Ranger can do this.

And once again we are back on the subject of DAMAGE lol goes round in circles doesn’t it.

KensaiZen.3740:

And once again we are back on the subject of DAMAGE lol goes round in circles doesn’t it.

Those poor reading comprehension issues again. No one has ever said; “only damage”, but without it, what use is everything else, and how do you kill people without damage?

You’re not implying the Ranger is a buff bot, are you? I even asked what can we use, to consider; “the best at”. You can’t even tell us that. What are the qualifiers?

On my Rifle Warrior I can do much better damage at range, while providing permanent Swiftness, permanent Fury, permanent Regeneration, and permanent 3 stacks of Might. All the while having great survivability.

Out of all that, what qualifiers can I use to compare to your Ranger?

So your warrior is able to out damage the Ranger at range. Are those buffs team wide or just yourself? you have great survivability. that’s great for you.

So apart from being able to damage. What else can it do?

KensaiZen.3740:

So your warrior is able to out damage the Ranger at range. Are those buffs team wide or just yourself? you have great survivability. that’s great for you.

So apart from being able to damage. What else can it do?

Those are buffs applied to THE GROUP, permanently so long as they stay within the radius of buffage.

I still need to know what your qualifiers are for comparison. What are they?

P.S. When you use buffs, the most you can put on teammates is 1 min duration, while on yourself, you can stack up to 2 min duration.

The “best” that I see in the Ranger class is versatility. That answer your question?

KensaiZen.3740:

The “best” that I see in the Ranger class is versatility. That answer your question?

I thought, you thought they were best at ranged? <scratches head>

The elementalist is the best versatile class in the game, but I’m curious as to how you qualify the Ranger for being the best versatile class?

I’d still like your qualifiers as to what makes a class best at something.

Why are you two so angry? It’s an opinion! He’s allowed to say what his is. Then you can make your own post saying what you think is yours. Endless bickering is proving next to nothing.

That last video link is a gimmick build. I rolled one just for giggles back when the video came out. Wow, insta-kill from a mile away. Yet, died even more because a good zerg’s doesn’t stand idle like in the video.

DeWolfe.2174:

Why are you two so angry? It’s an opinion! He’s allowed to say what his is. Then you can make your own post saying what you think is yours. Endless bickering is proving next to nothing.

That last video link is a gimmick build. I rolled one just for giggles back when the video came out. Wow, insta-kill from a mile away. Yet, died even more because a good zerg’s doesn’t stand idle like in the video.

Why are you so angry that we’re disagreeing with him, and are trying to have a conversation with him, while he is spouting nonsense?

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

You need to really explain what you are talking about. That isn’t helpful.

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

What’s so versatile about longbow? I must know this, because apparently you rock everywhere with your traited 1500 range godly longbow.

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

What’s so versatile about longbow? I must know this, because apparently you rock everywhere with your traited 1500 range godly longbow.

That’s just it, your all too focused on what kind of damage you can get out of the Ranger. Quite simply, the Ranger was not designed for burst damage. If it were teh case it would hit as hard as a warrior. The fact that it does not and that it will not get a damage buff on ranged weapons is because it was not designed to be omfg damage dealer.

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

You can try to get a potential damage figure by taking the classes and using it at max range to calculate the sustained damage from the 1500 range weapon. Then you factor in the utilities and class mechanics. This should give an overall final figure as to the 1500 range effectiveness of the class based on damage only. If damage is all you are looking for then stop here. I you want more to a class then damage, then you factor in other things like support, and playstyle.

At the end you will have an image of what the design of the class is. Then you compare the design of the class with how you were expecting the class to be and how you think the class should be.

Is the class broken because it was always broken, or is the class broken because people just don’t understand how it was meant to work.

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Then why doesn’t everyone just play warrior then? Obviously your idea of a Ranger is exactly what you get from Rifle warrior.

Though to be perfectly honest, The community has been brainwashed by such idiotic trends for months. GC warriors outside of CoF 1 are just made to be picked up off the floor.

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Then why doesn’t everyone just play warrior then? Obviously your idea of a Ranger is exactly what you get from Rifle warrior.

Though to be perfectly honest, The community has been brainwashed by such idiotic trends for months. GC warriors outside of CoF 1 are just made to be picked up off the floor.

Probably because, despite other classes not being as effective as the warrior in dungeons, they get more or equal enjoyment out of them. This does not however make them more effective or as good. I have a warrior and a ranger, I may be way more useful on warrior, but I prefer to play my ranger because it is fun.

This does not = ranger being as effective as warrior.

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Then why doesn’t everyone just play warrior then? Obviously your idea of a Ranger is exactly what you get from Rifle warrior.

Though to be perfectly honest, The community has been brainwashed by such idiotic trends for months. GC warriors outside of CoF 1 are just made to be picked up off the floor.

Probably because, despite other classes not being as effective as the warrior in dungeons, they get more or equal enjoyment out of them. This does not however make them more effective or as good. I have a warrior and a ranger, I may be way more useful on warrior, but I prefer to play my ranger because it is fun.

This does not = ranger being as effective as warrior.

What do you classify as effective?

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Then why doesn’t everyone just play warrior then? Obviously your idea of a Ranger is exactly what you get from Rifle warrior.

Though to be perfectly honest, The community has been brainwashed by such idiotic trends for months. GC warriors outside of CoF 1 are just made to be picked up off the floor.

Probably because, despite other classes not being as effective as the warrior in dungeons, they get more or equal enjoyment out of them. This does not however make them more effective or as good. I have a warrior and a ranger, I may be way more useful on warrior, but I prefer to play my ranger because it is fun.

This does not = ranger being as effective as warrior.

What do you classify as effective?

“As good as other classes.”

KensaiZen.3740:

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

Except that no one will stay farther than 1000 range when you’re fighting 1v1, which brings us back onto the topic of longbow viability. The only 3 utilities it offers are vulnerability, cripple, and a knock back. The vulnerability effects too little in a 1v1 fight, and it’s too easy to reach max in a zerg, it is great in dungeons, but that’s about it. The knock back isn’t far, it doesn’t cripple, and it doesn’t cause any other conditions, it’s way too easy to recover from in any kind of fight, and it’s really situational in PvE. Rapid fire and barrage are good for PvE, but horrible in any form of PvP. Sure, a mass cripple and impressive damage sounds all good and well, but the thing is, one dodge roll, just one, nullify the whole skill effectiveness even if you were in the center of it. Rapid fire is a great damage tool, potentially, but again, it suffers the same defect of dodge rolling nullifying the skill.

KensaiZen.3740:

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

This has nothing to do with whatever weapon set you’re using, the “versatility,” so to speak, comes from the pets, not longbow. Your longbow does not offer this “versatility.” Heck, by your standard I could use any other weapon and be more versatile than longbow.

Sebrent.3625:

Lol?! An elite, that can be killed, versus the various utilities other classes have that can do the same? Look at Elementalist’s Glyph of Renewal.

OMG, this guy brought up Glyph of Renewal!?

Lolz, and using it as a self rez at that. If you can manage to use a 4 sec cast 160+ sec cooldown utiltity to be self rezzed within the 15 sec it’s up, you could have use a 90sec max cantrip to save you from being downed in the first place.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

Except that no one will stay farther than 1000 range when you’re fighting 1v1, which brings us back onto the topic of longbow viability. The only 3 utilities it offers are vulnerability, cripple, and a knock back. The vulnerability effects too little in a 1v1 fight, and it’s too easy to reach max in a zerg, it is great in dungeons, but that’s about it. The knock back isn’t far, it doesn’t cripple, and it doesn’t cause any other conditions, it’s way too easy to recover from in any kind of fight, and it’s really situational in PvE. Rapid fire and barrage are good for PvE, but horrible in any form of PvP. Sure, a mass cripple and impressive damage sounds all good and well, but the thing is, one dodge roll, just one, nullify the whole skill effectiveness even if you were in the center of it. Rapid fire is a great damage tool, potentially, but again, it suffers the same defect of dodge rolling nullifying the skill.

KensaiZen.3740:

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

This has nothing to do with whatever weapon set you’re using, the “versatility,” so to speak, comes from the pets, not longbow. Your longbow does not offer this “versatility.” Heck, by your standard I could use any other weapon and be more versatile than longbow.

In a 1v1 duel, who uses longbow? the weapon was not designed for it. I thought this was obvious. Your using a point that the LB is not a versatile weapon because it does not operate outside of what it was designed for.

The LB is part of what makes Rangers versatile. It is not THE thing that makes the Ranger versatile. Did you even read what I wrote or just skimmed it then continue to push your point about the longbow?

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Then why doesn’t everyone just play warrior then? Obviously your idea of a Ranger is exactly what you get from Rifle warrior.

Though to be perfectly honest, The community has been brainwashed by such idiotic trends for months. GC warriors outside of CoF 1 are just made to be picked up off the floor.

Probably because, despite other classes not being as effective as the warrior in dungeons, they get more or equal enjoyment out of them. This does not however make them more effective or as good. I have a warrior and a ranger, I may be way more useful on warrior, but I prefer to play my ranger because it is fun.

This does not = ranger being as effective as warrior.

What do you classify as effective?

“As good as other classes.”

Name me a class that is good at everything. And please don’t compare whats good of 5 different classes against 1 class. That’s just stupid.

KensaiZen.3740:

In a 1v1 duel, who uses longbow? the weapon was not designed for it. I thought this was obvious. Your using a point that the LB is not a versatile weapon because it does not operate outside of what it was designed for.

The LB is part of what makes Rangers versatile. It is not THE thing that makes the Ranger versatile. Did you even read what I wrote or just skimmed it then continue to push your point about the longbow?

Hmm? I thought you said longbow is viable in all kinds of fights? What I’m pointing out is, what you said in this post.

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

What’s so versatile about longbow? I must know this, because apparently you rock everywhere with your traited 1500 range godly longbow.

That’s just it, your all too focused on what kind of damage you can get out of the Ranger. Quite simply, the Ranger was not designed for burst damage. If it were teh case it would hit as hard as a warrior. The fact that it does not and that it will not get a damage buff on ranged weapons is because it was not designed to be omfg damage dealer.

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

You can try to get a potential damage figure by taking the classes and using it at max range to calculate the sustained damage from the 1500 range weapon. Then you factor in the utilities and class mechanics. This should give an overall final figure as to the 1500 range effectiveness of the class based on damage only. If damage is all you are looking for then stop here. I you want more to a class then damage, then you factor in other things like support, and playstyle.

At the end you will have an image of what the design of the class is. Then you compare the design of the class with how you were expecting the class to be and how you think the class should be.

Is the class broken because it was always broken, or is the class broken because people just don’t understand how it was meant to work.

You said longbow is versatile, not pets are versatile, while giving example of how you completely rely on pets for your so called “versatility.” The only thing you said about longbow for the whole post is “sustained damage, sustained damage, range, and sustained damage.” We don’t care how many times you repeat it, if the only thing it brings to the table is ranged sustained damage, it isn’t versatile. It isn’t THE thing that makes ranger versatile. Just as I said, all you’re pointing out is pets, I could be the same or even more versatile ranger if I use any other weapon than longbow.

Furthermore, bring up warrior in discussion of PvP? Really? I hope you’re not going to say that warrior is just as viable in PvP as any other class, because it isn’t. Bring this up just makes you lose even more of your credibility.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

In a 1v1 duel, who uses longbow? the weapon was not designed for it. I thought this was obvious. Your using a point that the LB is not a versatile weapon because it does not operate outside of what it was designed for.

The LB is part of what makes Rangers versatile. It is not THE thing that makes the Ranger versatile. Did you even read what I wrote or just skimmed it then continue to push your point about the longbow?

Hmm? I thought you said longbow is viable in all kinds of fights? What I’m pointing out is, what you said in this post.

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

What’s so versatile about longbow? I must know this, because apparently you rock everywhere with your traited 1500 range godly longbow.

That’s just it, your all too focused on what kind of damage you can get out of the Ranger. Quite simply, the Ranger was not designed for burst damage. If it were teh case it would hit as hard as a warrior. The fact that it does not and that it will not get a damage buff on ranged weapons is because it was not designed to be omfg damage dealer.

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

You can try to get a potential damage figure by taking the classes and using it at max range to calculate the sustained damage from the 1500 range weapon. Then you factor in the utilities and class mechanics. This should give an overall final figure as to the 1500 range effectiveness of the class based on damage only. If damage is all you are looking for then stop here. I you want more to a class then damage, then you factor in other things like support, and playstyle.

At the end you will have an image of what the design of the class is. Then you compare the design of the class with how you were expecting the class to be and how you think the class should be.

Is the class broken because it was always broken, or is the class broken because people just don’t understand how it was meant to work.

You said longbow is versatile, not pets are versatile, while giving example of how you completely rely on pets for your so called “versatility.” The only thing you said about longbow for the whole post is “sustained damage, sustained damage, range, and sustained damage.” We don’t care how many times you repeat it, if the only thing it brings to the table is ranged sustained damage, it isn’t versatile. It isn’t THE thing that makes ranger versatile. Just as I said, all you’re pointing out is pets, I could be the same or even more versatile ranger if I use any other weapon than longbow.

Furthermore, bring up warrior in discussion of PvP? Really? I hope you’re not going to say that warrior is just as viable in PvP as any other class, because it isn’t. Bring this up just makes you lose even more of your credibility.

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

In a 1v1 duel, who uses longbow? the weapon was not designed for it. I thought this was obvious. Your using a point that the LB is not a versatile weapon because it does not operate outside of what it was designed for.

The LB is part of what makes Rangers versatile. It is not THE thing that makes the Ranger versatile. Did you even read what I wrote or just skimmed it then continue to push your point about the longbow?

Hmm? I thought you said longbow is viable in all kinds of fights? What I’m pointing out is, what you said in this post.

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

What’s so versatile about longbow? I must know this, because apparently you rock everywhere with your traited 1500 range godly longbow.

That’s just it, your all too focused on what kind of damage you can get out of the Ranger. Quite simply, the Ranger was not designed for burst damage. If it were teh case it would hit as hard as a warrior. The fact that it does not and that it will not get a damage buff on ranged weapons is because it was not designed to be omfg damage dealer.

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

You can try to get a potential damage figure by taking the classes and using it at max range to calculate the sustained damage from the 1500 range weapon. Then you factor in the utilities and class mechanics. This should give an overall final figure as to the 1500 range effectiveness of the class based on damage only. If damage is all you are looking for then stop here. I you want more to a class then damage, then you factor in other things like support, and playstyle.

At the end you will have an image of what the design of the class is. Then you compare the design of the class with how you were expecting the class to be and how you think the class should be.

Is the class broken because it was always broken, or is the class broken because people just don’t understand how it was meant to work.

You said longbow is versatile, not pets are versatile, while giving example of how you completely rely on pets for your so called “versatility.” The only thing you said about longbow for the whole post is “sustained damage, sustained damage, range, and sustained damage.” We don’t care how many times you repeat it, if the only thing it brings to the table is ranged sustained damage, it isn’t versatile. It isn’t THE thing that makes ranger versatile. Just as I said, all you’re pointing out is pets, I could be the same or even more versatile ranger if I use any other weapon than longbow.

Furthermore, bring up warrior in discussion of PvP? Really? I hope you’re not going to say that warrior is just as viable in PvP as any other class, because it isn’t. Bring this up just makes you lose even more of your credibility.

No, I fully understand warriors are not omfg great in PvP. Their potential damage is FAR different to their effective damage. This is on of the main illusions that I am trying to dispel. There is a much smaller gap between Ranges potential damage and its effective damage. There are different ranges for all the classes.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

It’s not about closing the gap. It’s about what the extra 300 range means.

More targets hit with piercing arrows.
Able to stay out of combat area completely whilst still contributing.

The strategic value of the extra 300 cannot be seen in a duel situation. Look at all teh other aspects of the game.

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

It’s not about closing the gap. It’s about what the extra 300 range means.

More targets hit with piercing arrows.
Able to stay out of combat area completely whilst still contributing.

The strategic value of the extra 300 cannot be seen in a duel situation. Look at all teh other aspects of the game.

Please, address this issue and explain it in your “soon to come” video. Perhaps some zerg footage of you killing off enemies with your barrage, the more the better, around 20 kills per hours of WvW is convincing enough to me(If you’re on a tier 1/2 server anyways), don’t forget to turn on in-game clock for that.

KensaiZen.3740:

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen

Your reading skills are horrible. I think only damage so much, all my builds are bunker builds. Seriously, even my Thief runs a semi-bunker non-stealth build.

Get off this bullcacka about damage, really just quit. When people mention the damage of other classes, they’re doing so because the other classes have MORE SURVIVABILITY, without losing much of their damage. Unfortunately, you have to have damage to KILL PEOPLE, or what is the point? Really, if you can’t kill the other person you are fighting, what does it matter, if you can live 5 minutes longer, 10 minutes longer, or the fight draws out to infinity?

To get that 1500 range, YOU HAVE TO kitten YOUR BUILD. Not only in damage, but utility, and survivability.

Sure you could strip off your gear, and pew, pew away behind a zerg, and collect badges, but that does not prove anything. People in Zergs generally are not good at the game, therefore you can not prove a point using that analogy, CONSIDERING I can enter a 40 man Zerg on my Necromancer in Plague Form, and live the entire time while my side is pushing, and pick up FOURTY BAGS, while you pick up maybe Ten bags.

At least try to learn the game, and every class before you spew your bullcacka.

Wow, you are just so ignorant. You seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing. Why on earth do Rangers get the reputation as being the best duelist class in the game? if they cant kill anyone, they would also be crap in SPvP as the skill set is pretty much the same.

“Really, if you can’t kill the other person you are fighting, what does it matter, if you can live 5 minutes longer, 10 minutes longer, or the fight draws out to infinity?”

The reality of it is, the Ranger CAN kill other classes. It may not do it as quick as a thief or a warrior but it CAN kill other classes and HAS GOOD SURVIVABILITY.

I think you need to take your head out of your kitten and read what you are saying. You say Rangers cant damage or kill. You claim they have bad survival. But the general concensus of the GW2 community is that the Ranger class is THE BEST duelist class in the game. Someones full of kitten. It must be the entire GW2 community since you obviously must be correct.

I’ve proven you wrong so many times, it isn’t funny. The Ranger is only a good duelist, against noobs, and havn’t learned how to play the game yet, and get destroyed by the Rangers pets. The Ranger also does good in sPvP because they have severely nerfed the other classes, and havn’t had to touch the Ranger, for obvious reasons.

I don’t think you guys realize how big of a nerf some classes, and their abilities get in sPvP that do not carry over to PvE, or WvW. The changes are compounded by the fact you also do not get to use any of the consumables, or racial abilities either, which is HUGE when you consider some racial abilities.

I think the reason many don’t realize this, is because they do not realize that when a change is labeled “PvP only” they actually mean sPvP/tPvP, and those changes do not effect WvW. It wasn’t until a bunch of us started running tests, before we caught this. These are only examples, but there are a lot more.

•Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.

•Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.

•Shield of Judgment: This skill’s protection duration has been set to 3 seconds from 5 seconds in PvP only.

•Selfless Daring: This trait had an efficiency with healing power that was reserved for healing skills only and has now been reduced to its intended level. Heal scaling has been reduced by 50% in PvP only.

•Healing Ripple: This skill’s scaling with healing power has been reduced by 50% in PvP only, as it had scaling that’s normally reserved for main healing skills. The maximum number of targets has also been reduced from infinite to 5.

•PvP downed health is now 75% of what it was. This change was made so that in fights where players are slightly outnumbered, they can win those fights by killing off downed enemies through damage rather than needing to use a finishing move.

What do you classify as effective?

Usefulness (aka support and control) and above this, damage. IMO effectiveness is about how fast you can clear a dungeon. The faster you get it done, the more effective your team is. If 5 friends and I decided to clear a dungeon on our rangers we would not get it done as fast as with our warriors.

The warrior has Aoe might and fury grant that is superior to anything the ranger can provide with pets or warhorn due to cooldowns. They also do not need to make the sacrifice of a weapon slot. The warrior has access to stability without the need to sacrifice their elite ( Balanced stance, Dolyak signet). The warrior can provide CC through the 1 handed sword’s adrenaline skill without the sacrifice of a utility slot and still do real damage ( and bleeds). The warrior has AOE condition removal ( shake it off) and it doesn’t rely on people standing inside a healing spring. The cool down on this also lower. Ranger’s healing spring, I might add, needs to be placed on the party, usually in melee range, which means if you are currently ranged (longbow) you need to move into range to place the spring on the party, thus lowering your (already poor) dps. Not only this, but it relies on a blast finisher from party members to heal others, and when in a pug ( who has no idea what blast finishers are) or with individuals that lack the weapons or skills to blast finish, it’s a waste. You also sacrifice your opportunity to heal later if you wish to remove conditions from the party when you yourself may already be at full health. Warrior’s elite can be a banner that AOE resses downed players. This does not rely on a spirit that can die in seconds and is ground targetable on the downed players. This res is alot more effective. Not only this, but when the banner is placed, it provides fury might and swiftness to the party for a decent amount of time. Ranger’s Spirit of renewal provides steady healing but it has to be in range.. and when it is in range it’s often times dead. If your team is any good, the healing is not even required anyway. Warriors can also spec into banners that provide real buffs to the party without the RNG that ranger’s spirits are encumbered with. These banners once again do not die in one hit and can be placed in melee range. The also do not require trait points to get a better chance of working.. they just work. A large portion of the warrior’s damage is not reliant on a pet which can die. These things result in better group synergy.

These are simple utility issues that make the warrior improve the rest of the party more than the ranger.

Let’s not even get started on the huge difference in damage. I do not run glass cannon on my warrior and yet I out-dps my full glass cannon ranger many times over. I do not die often on my warrior, in fact is survives about the same as my ranger does.

The only advantage ranger has over warrior in dungeons is that it can run full glass and sit at max range and not be punished for it. However, in full glass it still cannot provide anything more than just acceptable dps at best (given your arrows are even lined up for piercing shots) and some aoe vulnerability/cripple.

Yes you have entangle (at the cost of no stability) and muddy terrain. I would say these are some of the only really viable utilities you get for dungeons. The issue is, if your team is any good, these CC’s aren’t needed and are at the cost of much better DPS and support you could be getting from another class.

If you want to argue that ranger is great healing support, one only needs to look at a guardian or ele and know that the ranger is trumped once again.

Rangers in dungeons are the weakest of the classes no matter how skillfully they are played or what spec they are using, however they can be acceptable when done so.

Acceptable is all they will be however until utilities (like spirits) are fixed to account for the mediocre damage.

My suggestion to Anet would be to make PVE only changes to skills as rangers are fine in spvp.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

It’s not about closing the gap. It’s about what the extra 300 range means.

More targets hit with piercing arrows.
Able to stay out of combat area completely whilst still contributing.

The strategic value of the extra 300 cannot be seen in a duel situation. Look at all teh other aspects of the game.

Please, address this issue and explain it in your “soon to come” video. Perhaps some zerg footage of you killing off enemies with your barrage, the more the better, around 20 kills per hours of WvW is convincing enough to me(If you’re on a tier 1/2 server anyways), don’t forget to turn on in-game clock for that.

The video is coming. just finished casual run through Cof 2 to show that pets can be kept alive all the way through.

WvW video may be slightly tougher seeing as bottom tier there rent that many people. The zergs here don’t get that big (10-20 ppl) but I will try to get some footage when I can.

Any of you guys make team use of ranger combo fields in dungeons? Why or why not?

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

It’s not about closing the gap. It’s about what the extra 300 range means.

More targets hit with piercing arrows.
Able to stay out of combat area completely whilst still contributing.

The strategic value of the extra 300 cannot be seen in a duel situation. Look at all teh other aspects of the game.

Please, address this issue and explain it in your “soon to come” video. Perhaps some zerg footage of you killing off enemies with your barrage, the more the better, around 20 kills per hours of WvW is convincing enough to me(If you’re on a tier 1/2 server anyways), don’t forget to turn on in-game clock for that.

The video is coming. just finished casual run through Cof 2 to show that pets can be kept alive all the way through.

WvW video may be slightly tougher seeing as bottom tier there rent that many people. The zergs here don’t get that big (10-20 ppl) but I will try to get some footage when I can.

Citadel of Flames is old, you need to be running 55+ Fractals, or you’re just trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes.

People was running CoF before they had exotics, it isn’t a hard dungeon.

swiftpaw.6397:

What do you classify as effective?

Usefulness (aka support and control) and above this, damage. IMO effectiveness is about how fast you can clear a dungeon. The faster you get it done, the more effective your team is. If 5 friends and I decided to clear a dungeon on our rangers we would not get it done as fast as with our warriors.

The warrior has Aoe might and fury grant that is superior to anything the ranger can provide with pets or warhorn due to cooldowns. They also do not need to make the sacrifice of a weapon slot. The warrior has access to stability without the need to sacrifice their elite ( Balanced stance, Dolyak signet). The warrior can provide CC through the 1 handed sword’s adrenaline skill without the sacrifice of a utility slot and still do real damage ( and bleeds). The warrior has AOE condition removal ( shake it off) and it doesn’t rely on people standing inside a healing spring. The cool down on this also lower. Ranger’s healing spring, I might add, needs to be placed on the party, usually in melee range, which means if you are currently ranged (longbow) you need to move into range to place the spring on the party, thus lowering your (already poor) dps. Not only this, but it relies on a blast finisher from party members to heal others, and when in a pug ( who has no idea what blast finishers are) or with individuals that lack the weapons or skills to blast finish, it’s a waste. You also sacrifice your opportunity to heal later if you wish to remove conditions from the party when you yourself may already be at full health. Warrior’s elite can be a banner that AOE resses downed players. This does not rely on a spirit that can die in seconds and is ground targetable on the downed players. This res is alot more effective. Not only this, but when the banner is placed, it provides fury might and swiftness to the party for a decent amount of time. Ranger’s Spirit of renewal provides steady healing but it has to be in range.. and when it is in range it’s often times dead. If your team is any good, the healing is not even required anyway. Warriors can also spec into banners that provide real buffs to the party without the RNG that ranger’s spirits are encumbered with. These banners once again do not die in one hit and can be placed in melee range. The also do not require trait points to get a better chance of working.. they just work. A large portion of the warrior’s damage is not reliant on a pet which can die. These things result in better group synergy.

These are simple utility issues that make the warrior improve the rest of the party more than the ranger.

Let’s not even get started on the huge difference in damage. I do not run glass cannon on my warrior and yet I out-dps my full glass cannon ranger many times over. I do not die often on my warrior, in fact is survives about the same as my ranger does.

The only advantage ranger has over warrior in dungeons is that it can run full glass and sit at max range and not be punished for it. However, in full glass it still cannot provide anything more than just acceptable dps at best (given your arrows are even lined up for piercing shots) and some aoe vulnerability/cripple.

Yes you have entangle (at the cost of no stability) and muddy terrain. I would say these are some of the only really viable utilities you get for dungeons. The issue is, if your team is any good, these CC’s aren’t needed and are at the cost of much better DPS and support you could be getting from another class.

If you want to argue that ranger is great healing support, one only needs to look at a guardian or ele and know that the ranger is trumped once again.

Rangers in dungeons are the weakest of the classes no matter how skillfully they are played or what spec they are using, however they can be acceptable when done so.

Acceptable is all they will be however until utilities (like spirits) are fixed to account for the mediocre damage.

So going by this no class is effective as warrior is the only effective class.

Out of curiosity, what i the fastest time you have done in Arah with 5 warriors?

Chopps.5047:

Any of you guys make team use of ranger combo fields in dungeons? Why or why not?

I would love to see a video of you doing this.

KensaiZen.3740:

Out of curiosity, what i the fastest time you have done in Arah with 5 warriors?

Top this with a single Ranger in a group.

11:21 second run in CoF, with all 5 Warriors.