Guild Wars 2

Sebrent.3625:

There is no ranger in that last video … why am I supposed to watch it?

Search & Rescue is useful … except that it takes your pet (30-40% of your dps) out of the fight for a good while and possibly gets it killed.

• Search & Rescue – 90s (68s traited) cooldown and the above issues
• Glyph of Renewal – 165s (132s traited) cooldown, 4.25s cast, can full heal rez 1 or rez up to 3 allies
• Battle Standard – 240s (192s traited) cooldown, 2s cast, can rez entire party and provides Fury, Might, and Stability
• Signet of Undeath – 180s (144s traited) cooldown, 2s cast, can rez 3 party members, passive gives life force
• Signet of Mercy – 240s (192s traited) cooldown, 3.75s cast, can rez 1 party member, passive gives +healing
• Toss Elixir R – 120s (92.25s w/ 30 pts in Tools), 0.75s cast, can rez up to 5 party members, rezzing them in 5 seconds (20% per sec)
• Illusion of Life – 130s (104s traited), 0.75s cast, can rez entire party, though they will die if an enemy doesn’t die within the next 15s.

Not all of these are better than Search & Rescue, but many of them definitely are.

Search & Rescue:

• Pet can die
• Pet isn’t doing damage (-40% of your damage … though better than 100%)
• Is not instant
• Can be interrupted

Search and rescue can be done with a dead pet for 100% res success rate cannot be interrupted.

KensaiZen, take your “arguments” and try them elsewhere (or, preferably, nowhere).

It isn’t the Ranger community, it is you. You may notice that when someone posts something with some actual substance, there is good conversation. When you (and certain others) post this rubbish, there is no good conversation just the community telling you “that’s bull” and you saying “nuh uh” and then the community saying “Well here is proof” and you saying “well I really meant…”.

What is the point of even continuing this? Are you just trying to prove that you’re right? So many people have brought up so many points as to why you’re not that you’ve moved away from the OP and many other stances you’ve tried to take.

The point of these forums is to discuss ideas, give/get help/feedback, etc.. You and your posts are not accomplishing this.

You and the rest of “team misinformation” just need to stop … at least till you have something of substance to post about.

LadyLad.1389:

KensaiZen.3740:

And here is another fantastic example of HotW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa6YvHZ9Q4

Each time someone goes down… how much DPS do you think the group is doing? when someone drops, the group must stop and res that person. That is a total DPS drop to 0. The Ranger has a pet that can res whilst maintaining constant DPS. The Ranger has an elite that can do the exact same thing.

And now that it has been fixed. It is a guaranteed res with no danger to the rest of the team.

Oh wait nvm Im just being trolled. If I bring support, Im not doing damage. If im doing damage. Im not doing up support. If I do both then im not doing high support or damage. Its a no win scenario. How can you win against a troll? Silly me.

What you fail to realize, and I forgive you for it because you probably havn’t played high level content in any game, most importantly Guildwars 2 is that a solid build can fill several roles.

What do I mean?

Guardian pops a 15 second; “Save Yourselves”, and a “Hollowed Ground”, followed by a Warrior who pops; “For Great Justice”, while the Elementalist does his stuff, and so on…. After a certain point the Mesmer uses Signet of Inspiration, and doubles the duration on all boons everyone has.

It’s called boon stacking. Why is it important? Because the right group set up, which will not include a Ranger will place 25 stacks of Might on everyone in the group, for one minute, and can be maintained during boss fights, on top of having every other boon in the game for the fight, meaning those other support classes will outperform anything a Ranger can do at 1500 range, where he misses buffs.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE DYING IN THE OLD CONTENT. I don’t evne know why you are bringing anything like that up. We frequently do the old content with three people, so if you are dying in a full group, well I would probably practice more.

And what stops the ranger from bringing Boon pets and speccing for boons since the whole group is boon focused and prepared beforehand? Also no one says the ranger cant run forward. Get and share boons and then run back to position. The bow is still firing.

And since the grou kitten o organised. It wouldn’t be difficult to time it either as I am sure everyone would be on voice chat.

So what if there was an area where the whole group had to use Ranged attacks? the Guardian brings out his sceptre (laughable) no matter how you spec a Guardian its ranged capabilities will always be sub par.

Maybe the Devs can keep things interesting and change up the dungeons monthly. I would love to see how well these Pro people do when not running a dungeon they know like the back of their hands

Sebrent.3625:

• Glyph of Renewal – 165s (132s traited) cooldown, 4.25s cast, can full heal rez 1 or rez up to 3 allies

Just wanted to comment that water GoR doesn’t full heal an ally. It doesn’t do anything, actually. It’s suppose to (as it says) but it doesn’t, it just casts a big heal and sometimes it doesn’t even do that. It usually just brings someone up to half health when you rez. It’s only marginally better than fire GoR and air GoR has greater utility.

But just clearing that up. I think the other good thing about S&R that you’re not bringing up is:

• It takes part of your damage from you when used, but the other option on other professions is take 100% of your damage while rezzing unless you have pets.
• It can make your rez attempts faster by combining your pet and yourself.
• It works on dead allies were those other skills have zero effect.
• Works at variable range (wherever the pet is, within its range, not yours).

It’s not perfect or even outright better in certain respects but it has its uses that other similar utilities don’t.

Sebrent.3625:

KensaiZen, take your “arguments” and try them elsewhere (or, preferably, nowhere).

It isn’t the Ranger community, it is you. You may notice that when someone posts something with some actual substance, there is good conversation. When you (and certain others) post this rubbish, there is no good conversation just the community telling you “that’s bull” and you saying “nuh uh” and then the community saying “Well here is proof” and you saying “well I really meant…”.

What is the point of even continuing this? Are you just trying to prove that you’re right? So many people have brought up so many points as to why you’re not that you’ve moved away from the OP and many other stances you’ve tried to take.

The point of these forums is to discuss ideas, give/get help/feedback, etc.. You and your posts are not accomplishing this.

You and the rest of “team misinformation” just need to stop … at least till you have something of substance to post about.

1. Rangers do crap damage. Rangers do not do crap damage- point proven. Certainly not as high as a warrior. But certainly not as bad as other classes.
2. Rangers pets die all the times in dungeons thus reducing Ranger capabilities especially in the damage department by 40%. – Pets dont die in dungeons if you can manage them. Point proven.
3. Rangers are crap in WvW and can’t do anything – still need to find a zerg in bottom tier WvW to make a video. video coming soon.
4. Rangers spirit dies all the time in dungeons and are worthless. 10% damage increase and burning for a full 60 seconds is better than 10% damage increase or burning for 100% success rate for 10 seconds. (still not sure why people dont understand this)

Am I wrong? What other QQ issues were there with the Ranger? oh

Rangers bring nothing to the team – Rangers bring something very important to the team. A higher % of success for completion in instances. Usually the last to die. Has ability to keep allies up and running without losing total DPS.

Any more?

Leo G.4501:

Sebrent.3625:

• Glyph of Renewal – 165s (132s traited) cooldown, 4.25s cast, can full heal rez 1 or rez up to 3 allies

Just wanted to comment that water GoR doesn’t full heal an ally. It doesn’t do anything, actually. It’s suppose to (as it says) but it doesn’t, it just casts a big heal and sometimes it doesn’t even do that. It usually just brings someone up to half health when you rez. It’s only marginally better than fire GoR and air GoR has greater utility.

But just clearing that up. I think the other good thing about S&R that you’re not bringing up is:

• It takes part of your damage from you when used, but the other option on other professions is take 100% of your damage while rezzing unless you have pets.
• It can make your rez attempts faster by combining your pet and yourself.
• It works on dead allies were those other skills have zero effect.
• Works at variable range (wherever the pet is, within its range, not yours).

It’s not perfect or even outright better in certain respects but it has its uses that other similar utilities don’t.

Oh, I won’t argue that Search & Rescue doesn’t have its uses. It certainly does. I’m arguing that there are other utilities that do the same or better. There are some worse as well.

Either way, it is far from a unique Ranger capability.

KensaiZen.3740:

1. Rangers do crap damage. Rangers do not do crap damage- point proven. Certainly not as high as a warrior. But certainly not as bad as other classes.

Posting a video of bad players in bad gear doesn’t prove your point.

KensaiZen.3740:

2. Rangers pets die all the times in dungeons thus reducing Ranger capabilities especially in the damage department by 40%. – Pets dont die in dungeons if you can manage them. Point proven.

Running through the easiest path of HotW and one of the easiest in CoF doesn’t prove anything. Get a 30+ fractal and keep that pet alive while also making it useful. Then people will be impressed

KensaiZen.3740:

3. Rangers are crap in WvW and can’t do anything – still need to find a zerg in bottom tier WvW to make a video. video coming soon.

I can’t wait to see this one. You going to just sit back and do damage and say “see, people died” and call it a day?

You have to compare it to things like the Glamor mesmer, D/D Elementalist, Necromancer, Guardian, etc..

KensaiZen.3740:

4. Rangers spirit dies all the time in dungeons and are worthless. 10% damage increase and burning for a full 60 seconds is better than 10% damage increase or burning for 100% success rate for 10 seconds. (still not sure why people dont understand this)

+10% damage once every 10 seconds gives you an overal increase of 1% … and that’s assuming that you proc it as soon as that 10 second cooldown is up. That’s pathetic.

Even if you had given that to your group (which you didn’t in your videos), that is +1% x5 people for +5%. Giving Might to everyone would have done much more.

The burning is lackluster if there is anyone else in the group reliably applying burning to the target.

Finally, as already mentioned, your spirits were so far away from the fights that they weren’t even benefitting your group. Yeah, they didn’t die but they were only giving their horrible effects to you.

KensaiZen.3740:

Rangers bring nothing to the team – Rangers bring something very important to the team. A higher % of success for completion in instances. Usually the last to die. Has ability to keep allies up and running without losing total DPS.

The last to die … great advertisement. I prefer the “because my class is here, we are much less likelyto die” that Guardians bring to a group. My Mesmer brings that too with Feedback, traited Focus, Null Field, AOE blinds, etc. along with great damage from phantasms. It can even remove boons from enemies who would otherwise be taking 33% less damage due to protection.

Sebrent.3625:

+10% damage once every 10 seconds gives you an overal increase of 1% … and that’s assuming that you proc it as soon as that 10 second cooldown is up. That’s pathetic.

I thought someone mentioned Frost Spirit’s buff not having an internal cooldown. No one tried proving that yet? But yeah, I think the internal cooldowns on the spirits need to be dropped.

Leo G.4501:

Sebrent.3625:

+10% damage once every 10 seconds gives you an overal increase of 1% … and that’s assuming that you proc it as soon as that 10 second cooldown is up. That’s pathetic.

I thought someone mentioned Frost Spirit’s buff not having an internal cooldown. No one tried proving that yet? But yeah, I think the internal cooldowns on the spirits need to be dropped.

I believe they had said that it isn’t shared across party members. So if I got +10% it’d be on a 10 sec cooldown for me, but not for you and the rest of the party until you got your own +10% proc.

I agree that removing the ICD would be a step in the right direction. That said, though, they are so bad right now that there are so many things that could be done that would be a step in the right direction.

Sebrent.3625:

KensaiZen.3740:

1. Rangers do crap damage. Rangers do not do crap damage- point proven. Certainly not as high as a warrior. But certainly not as bad as other classes.

Posting a video of bad players in bad gear doesn’t prove your point.

KensaiZen.3740:

2. Rangers pets die all the times in dungeons thus reducing Ranger capabilities especially in the damage department by 40%. – Pets dont die in dungeons if you can manage them. Point proven.

Running through the easiest path of HotW and one of the easiest in CoF doesn’t prove anything. Get a 30+ fractal and keep that pet alive while also making it useful. Then people will be impressed

KensaiZen.3740:

3. Rangers are crap in WvW and can’t do anything – still need to find a zerg in bottom tier WvW to make a video. video coming soon.

I can’t wait to see this one. You going to just sit back and do damage and say “see, people died” and call it a day?

You have to compare it to things like the Glamor mesmer, D/D Elementalist, Necromancer, Guardian, etc..

KensaiZen.3740:

4. Rangers spirit dies all the time in dungeons and are worthless. 10% damage increase and burning for a full 60 seconds is better than 10% damage increase or burning for 100% success rate for 10 seconds. (still not sure why people dont understand this)

+10% damage once every 10 seconds gives you an overal increase of 1% … and that’s assuming that you proc it as soon as that 10 second cooldown is up. That’s pathetic.

Even if you had given that to your group (which you didn’t in your videos), that is +1% x5 people for +5%. Giving Might to everyone would have done much more.

The burning is lackluster if there is anyone else in the group reliably applying burning to the target.

Finally, as already mentioned, your spirits were so far away from the fights that they weren’t even benefitting your group. Yeah, they didn’t die but they were only giving their horrible effects to you.

KensaiZen.3740:

Rangers bring nothing to the team – Rangers bring something very important to the team. A higher % of success for completion in instances. Usually the last to die. Has ability to keep allies up and running without losing total DPS.

The last to die … great advertisement. I prefer the “because my class is here, we are much less likelyto die” that Guardians bring to a group. My Mesmer brings that too with Feedback, traited Focus, Null Field, AOE blinds, etc. along with great damage from phantasms. It can even remove boons from enemies who would otherwise be taking 33% less damage due to protection.

I would love to bring a more up to date video… been searching. I don’t think there is one.

In the CoF video i showed that putting the spirit up on the other side of the wall from the devourer breeder, still reached the entire group and they did not die from his AoE. Hell, even in the devourer section they didn’t die either. Proccing once every 10 seconds allows for fluid gameplay. Run into buff area. Get buff, run out and attack. Position it properly and the entire team can move around and get these buffs without much effort. It does not have to be static. There is a reason why its once every 10 seconds. The only static person will be yourself as you are plinking away from range.

The other point is IF there is someone else who has burning. That is a big IF. Perhaps you come across a party that doesn’t have any burning at all. If you did, switch and use something else. Remember, not everyone will be in range of Guardian VoJ when popped and it is on a relatively long cooldown unless traited into virtues or using renewed focus. There are many variables.

And of course… who says Rangers can’t give might to the team either? spirits are fire and forget skills. they last long so you don’t have to worry about them and do something else… like managing your pets better and making them more useful.

Anyway, this discussion has taken up far too much of my time and I am spending more time on the forum then I am in game. Think I will go and do fractals and see how well the Ranger does in higher level ones.

KensaiZen.3740:

Sebrent.3625:

KensaiZen, take your “arguments” and try them elsewhere (or, preferably, nowhere).

It isn’t the Ranger community, it is you. You may notice that when someone posts something with some actual substance, there is good conversation. When you (and certain others) post this rubbish, there is no good conversation just the community telling you “that’s bull” and you saying “nuh uh” and then the community saying “Well here is proof” and you saying “well I really meant…”.

What is the point of even continuing this? Are you just trying to prove that you’re right? So many people have brought up so many points as to why you’re not that you’ve moved away from the OP and many other stances you’ve tried to take.

The point of these forums is to discuss ideas, give/get help/feedback, etc.. You and your posts are not accomplishing this.

You and the rest of “team misinformation” just need to stop … at least till you have something of substance to post about.

1. Rangers do crap damage. Rangers do not do crap damage- point proven. Certainly not as high as a warrior. But certainly not as bad as other classes.
2. Rangers pets die all the times in dungeons thus reducing Ranger capabilities especially in the damage department by 40%. – Pets dont die in dungeons if you can manage them. Point proven.
3. Rangers are crap in WvW and can’t do anything – still need to find a zerg in bottom tier WvW to make a video. video coming soon.
4. Rangers spirit dies all the time in dungeons and are worthless. 10% damage increase and burning for a full 60 seconds is better than 10% damage increase or burning for 100% success rate for 10 seconds. (still not sure why people dont understand this)

Am I wrong? What other QQ issues were there with the Ranger? oh

Rangers bring nothing to the team – Rangers bring something very important to the team. A higher % of success for completion in instances. Usually the last to die. Has ability to keep allies up and running without losing total DPS.

Any more?

What are these other classes that rangers do more damage than? Name one. You have failed to prove anything that you’ve said in any of your posts. Your videos only prove what everyone else has said. At this point I’m going to chalk you up as a troll because anyone with any sense knows that you can’t back up anything that you are saying and most of us obviously have much more experience in this game than you do.

Yes, you showed that in a cakewalk fight that you could put the spirit in a safe position. Go do some dungeon path with AOEs that random fall in the room and tell me what happens then. Furthermore, it doesn’t do anything to answer the issue of the fact that you’re only, at best, getting +1% damage from the +10% every 10 seconds. Likely less than that since you likely are not proccing it again right when it comes off cooldown.

Do you really expect people to decide their movement based on trying to get the weak spirit effect that doesn’t last long? Lol, ok.

It isn’t much of an IF in most groups whether someone has burning. It is a condition common to many classes across multiple specs.

I hope you do try fractals with the Ranger. Once you get to 30+, please record some video for us.

Frost Spirit does not have a 10s cooldown. Get a steady weapon and try it yourself in the mists.

misterdevious.6482:

Frost Spirit does not have a 10s cooldown. Get a steady weapon and try it yourself in the mists.

They wont believe you anyway. The Ranger is too broken. Leo G already mentioned this to him and he still uses it as a point in a later post.

people eh.

Even without an internal cooldown you have 35 (50% traited) chance for +10% damage. That translates to +3.5% or +5% damage. Again, this is nothing special.

KensaiZen.3740:

Proccing once every 10 seconds allows for fluid gameplay. Run into buff area. Get buff, run out and attack. Position it properly and the entire team can move around and get these buffs without much effort. It does not have to be static. There is a reason why its once every 10 seconds. The only static person will be yourself as you are plinking away from range.

You do realize the spirits require you to be attacking, (and getting a proc) to get the buffs, right? You don’t just run into the buff area, get the buff, and run out. This is why boon stacking groups can not rely on a Ranger for boons.

I can’t believe this thread is still going on. KensaiZen is just an average player who died to a Ranger a few times, and now he thinks they’re ok or overpowered, when in fact, no Guardian should ever die to a Ranger.

You’ll never see a video with a Ranger in it, in WvW killing 40 people, in a group of 5, but there are several videos that exist with Guardians in it, killing 40 people with 5. The fact that KensaiZen doesn’t see the power of the Guardian speaks volumes of his issues playing this game.

I’ve got my 1 year old grandson walking around the house saying; “I da boss, I da boss”. He hasn’t done anything important for the title, nor would he even understand what is required to get the title. I feel like this is what you are also doing. You havn’t done anything worth while, yet think you have. Please do us all a favor, and learn more about the game; as a Ranger, and revisit this six more months down the line.

jkctmc.8754:

no Guardian should ever die to a Ranger.

Mmmm, have you checked Xsorus’ video?

He soundly beats a Guardian in it among others (and 1vsX too).

Leo G.4501:

jkctmc.8754:

no Guardian should ever die to a Ranger.

Mmmm, have you checked Xsorus’ video?

He soundly beats a Guardian in it among others (and 1vsX too).

Xsorus and I have talked in the past about Pain Inverter, and its benefits. No reason to throw that video in here, since Xsorus and I agree on virtually everything, except the power of Thieves now.

To this day, I have never lost a single fight to any Ranger, even on my Ranger. At best I’ve had double downs, and was able to finish them in down state before they finish me.

Any class that can get retaliation will murder a Guardian who doesn’t understand why he/she is taking on too much damage. That’s what Pain Inverter brings into the equation. <winks>

And there is a far cry difference in me saying a good Guardian; “shouldn’t die” vs what you thought I said is; a good Guardian; “doesn’t die” to Rangers. With my meditation built Guardian, I don’t even have to attack a Ranger, and he would never be able to kill me, and with my massive condition removal, I could draw the fight on forever, and I’ve done this to troll Rangers in game, when bored.

Heh I could tell that guardian was probably one of those bunker types and seeing a Ranger probably got them overconfident but yeah, dat PI

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Proccing once every 10 seconds allows for fluid gameplay. Run into buff area. Get buff, run out and attack. Position it properly and the entire team can move around and get these buffs without much effort. It does not have to be static. There is a reason why its once every 10 seconds. The only static person will be yourself as you are plinking away from range.

You do realize the spirits require you to be attacking, (and getting a proc) to get the buffs, right? You don’t just run into the buff area, get the buff, and run out.

I can’t believe this thread is still going on. KensaiZen is just an average player who died to a Ranger a few times, and now he thinks they’re ok or overpowered, when in fact, no Guardian should ever die to a Ranger.

You’ll never see a video with a Ranger in it, in WvW killing 40 people, in a group of 5, but there are several videos that exist with Guardians in it, killing 40 people with 5. The fact that KensaiZen doesn’t see the power of the Guardian speaks volumes of his issues playing this game.

Funnily enough I’ve only ever lost once to a Ranger on my guardian. But that doesn’t mean I don’t see the potential in Rangers when actually playing one.

This class can do with a few fixes and tweaks but it is NOWHERE near a broken class like you people make it out to be. Too much QQ and not enough positive constructive threads.

After going through the Ranger forum I picked up some points that people seem to feel so strongly about. After trying the Ranger, it is not the case.

Cry me a River.

KensaiZen.3740:

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Proccing once every 10 seconds allows for fluid gameplay. Run into buff area. Get buff, run out and attack. Position it properly and the entire team can move around and get these buffs without much effort. It does not have to be static. There is a reason why its once every 10 seconds. The only static person will be yourself as you are plinking away from range.

You do realize the spirits require you to be attacking, (and getting a proc) to get the buffs, right? You don’t just run into the buff area, get the buff, and run out.

I can’t believe this thread is still going on. KensaiZen is just an average player who died to a Ranger a few times, and now he thinks they’re ok or overpowered, when in fact, no Guardian should ever die to a Ranger.

You’ll never see a video with a Ranger in it, in WvW killing 40 people, in a group of 5, but there are several videos that exist with Guardians in it, killing 40 people with 5. The fact that KensaiZen doesn’t see the power of the Guardian speaks volumes of his issues playing this game.

Funnily enough I’ve only ever lost once to a Ranger on my guardian. But that doesn’t mean I don’t see the potential in Rangers when actually playing one.

This class can do with a few fixes and tweaks but it is NOWHERE near a broken class like you people make it out to be. Too much QQ and not enough positive constructive threads.

After going through the Ranger forum I picked up some points that people seem to feel so strongly about. After trying the Ranger, it is not the case.

Cry me a River.

There is a difference between constructive and just outright misleading.

KensaiZen.3740:

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Proccing once every 10 seconds allows for fluid gameplay. Run into buff area. Get buff, run out and attack. Position it properly and the entire team can move around and get these buffs without much effort. It does not have to be static. There is a reason why its once every 10 seconds. The only static person will be yourself as you are plinking away from range.

You do realize the spirits require you to be attacking, (and getting a proc) to get the buffs, right? You don’t just run into the buff area, get the buff, and run out.

I can’t believe this thread is still going on. KensaiZen is just an average player who died to a Ranger a few times, and now he thinks they’re ok or overpowered, when in fact, no Guardian should ever die to a Ranger.

You’ll never see a video with a Ranger in it, in WvW killing 40 people, in a group of 5, but there are several videos that exist with Guardians in it, killing 40 people with 5. The fact that KensaiZen doesn’t see the power of the Guardian speaks volumes of his issues playing this game.

Funnily enough I’ve only ever lost once to a Ranger on my guardian. But that doesn’t mean I don’t see the potential in Rangers when actually playing one.

This class can do with a few fixes and tweaks but it is NOWHERE near a broken class like you people make it out to be. Too much QQ and not enough positive constructive threads.

After going through the Ranger forum I picked up some points that people seem to feel so strongly about. After trying the Ranger, it is not the case.

Cry me a River.

Can you show me where I have said it is broken? You can’t add words people; “didn’t” say to prove a point, that does not exist. I have never, nor will I ever say the Ranger is broken, only subpar to the other six toons I play, including my newly fully geared 80 Necromancer.

Nor have I cried. That’s just a childish defense you’re using to cover up your lack of knowledge of this game, and your lack of skill. You see, I have 6 fully geared classes, so I do not have to play the Ranger. Therefore I am not solely invested in the Ranger, and I can approach the issues of the Ranger with open, unbiased eyes.

I think the issue is, you need a dictionary because you are mixing up words, or do not understand what some of the words mean when used in the context of a sentence. That is the only explanation there is to your misconceptions. People feel strongly because anyone with any amount of skill have played the other classes, and seen the difference, and recognize that the Ranger is among the weakest classes in the game.

Take for example Xsorus, and his Ranger videos. If someone like you; “only” seen those videos, you would try to tell us the Ranger is overpowered, look at what Xsorus does with one. Now if you also watch what Xsorus can do on his Thief, which performs 10x better, an intelligent person could then understand what others mean when they say; “I do well on the Ranger, but when I play my other classes, I perform so much better”.

You see, that last sentence is the one you can not understand, can you explain to us why?

If you havn’t noticed, this is the; “Ranger” forums, an area dedicated to the Ranger, yes, even the issues that revolve around them. This doesn’t mean issues do not exist with other classes. You would have to visit those sections to get a full grasp of the issues with a chosen class. For example I have an issue with a Mesmer, and Guardians lack of a perma 25% run speed, and think a Warriors banners need to be less annoying to use. Let me show you what constructive threads look like.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Changes-the-Ranger-needs-for-WVW/first

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Proccing once every 10 seconds allows for fluid gameplay. Run into buff area. Get buff, run out and attack. Position it properly and the entire team can move around and get these buffs without much effort. It does not have to be static. There is a reason why its once every 10 seconds. The only static person will be yourself as you are plinking away from range.

You do realize the spirits require you to be attacking, (and getting a proc) to get the buffs, right? You don’t just run into the buff area, get the buff, and run out.

I can’t believe this thread is still going on. KensaiZen is just an average player who died to a Ranger a few times, and now he thinks they’re ok or overpowered, when in fact, no Guardian should ever die to a Ranger.

You’ll never see a video with a Ranger in it, in WvW killing 40 people, in a group of 5, but there are several videos that exist with Guardians in it, killing 40 people with 5. The fact that KensaiZen doesn’t see the power of the Guardian speaks volumes of his issues playing this game.

Funnily enough I’ve only ever lost once to a Ranger on my guardian. But that doesn’t mean I don’t see the potential in Rangers when actually playing one.

This class can do with a few fixes and tweaks but it is NOWHERE near a broken class like you people make it out to be. Too much QQ and not enough positive constructive threads.

After going through the Ranger forum I picked up some points that people seem to feel so strongly about. After trying the Ranger, it is not the case.

Cry me a River.

Can you show me where I have said it is broken? You can’t add words people; “didn’t” say to prove a point, that does not exist. I have never, nor will I ever say the Ranger is broken, only subpar to the other six toons I play, including my newly fully geared 80 Necromancer.

Nor have I cried. That’s just a childish defense you’re using to cover up your lack of knowledge of this game, and your lack of skill. You see, I have 7 fully geared classes, so I do not have to play the Ranger. Therefore I am not solely invested in the Ranger, and I can approach the issues of the Ranger with open, unbiased eyes.

I think the issue is, you need a dictionary because you are mixing up words, or do not understand what some of the words mean when used in the context of a sentence. That is the only explanation there is to your misconceptions. People feel strongly because anyone with any amount of skill have played the other classes, and seen the difference, and recognize that the Ranger is among the weakest classes in the game.

Take for example Xsorus, and his Ranger videos. If someone like you; “only” seen those videos, you would try to tell us the Ranger is overpowered, look at what Xsorus does with one. Now if you also watch what Xsorus can do on his Thief, which performs 10x better, an intelligent person could then understand what others mean when they say; “I do well on the Ranger, but when I play my other classes, I perform so much better”.

You see, that last sentence is the one you can not understand, can you explain to us why?

If you havn’t noticed this is the; “Ranger” forums, an area dedicated to the Ranger, yes, even the issues that revolve around them. This doesn’t mean issues do not exist with other classes. You would have to visit those sections to get a full grasp of the issues with a chosen class. For example I have an issue with a Mesmer, and Guardians lack of a perma 25% run speed, and think a Warriors banners need to be less annoying to use. Let me show you what constructive threads look like.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Changes-the-Ranger-needs-for-WVW/first

“I do well on the Ranger, but when I play my other classes, I perform so much better”.

Could it just mean that his playstyle is more suited to other classes? Has anyone actually found what the Rangers role is? I would love to near it. Im pretty sure I know the mechanics of the class and how it was designed.

There is a profound difference with a Ranger the Dev’s have designed and their vision and the vision of what the player wants the Ranger to be.

dear kensaizen,

what is the max ranged dps output of each profession?

where are your wvw videos that will put all the ranger qq to rest?

love,
me

KensaiZen.3740:

“I do well on the Ranger, but when I play my other classes, I perform so much better”.

Could it just mean that his playstyle is more suited to other classes? Has anyone actually found what the Rangers role is? I would love to near it. Im pretty sure I know the mechanics of the class and how it was designed.

There is a profound difference with a Ranger the Dev’s have designed and their vision and the vision of what the player wants the Ranger to be.

You can ask the same for every class. The developers did their best to get rid of the holy trinity, that being: “healer, damage dealer, and tank”. They had an idea of a character that could fill “its” self chosen role, in doing a variety of all three. That is why every class has its own healing ability, its own boons (buffs), and has multiple ways ranged, and melee to do its own damage.

There are; “no roles” in GW2. This gives the opportunity to run away from what people believe something should be, and create something new. For example my bunker Thief is tankier than my meditation built Guardian, and why my bunker Warrior still does more damage than any other class, but Warriors, while still providing perma swiftness, fury, regen, and 3 stacks of might for my group.

You keep using the word; “playstyle” as if it has something to do with class specifics, when in reality in GW2 it is nothing more than wanting say; bunker/conddam over bunker/power, or glass canon/high damage, etcetera. The ability to slot one set of melee weapons, and one set of ranged weapons takes away the need, or playstyle for melee only, ranged only classes. You can have the best of both worlds if you choose your traits, and gear accordingly.

Do you feel your Ranger is on par with your other classes? If so, how? I havn’t played the Engineer yet, though fighting them I feel they’re weaker than the Ranger. Although out of the other classes I chose to gear up in Exotics, they all play way better than my Ranger under most circumstances, but most importantly groups. My Ranger brings very little to a group. Keep in mind I talk primarily in WvW.

Warrior – Much better damage (easily twice as much), faster revives on downed players, perma Swiftness, perma Fury, Perma Regen, Perma 3 stacks of Might, 10% bonus damage to crit hits, for the entire group, and the list could go on.

Guardian – Better damage (easily 50% more damage), pulsing group regen, access denying abilities (blocks a lot of damage to friendlies), a large variety of boons, condition cures for the entire group, and the list could go on.

Mesmer – Much better damage (easily twice as much), Staff build allows me to transfer all boons on me, to my entire group (amazing combined with Chaos Storm and Chaos Armor), SEVERAL COMBO FIELDS to improve the groups damage, Null Field, stealth for the entire group, or a portal to surprise your foes, and the list could go on.

Thief – Special Note: I do not like the Thief in PvE, but WvW they add; Much better damage (easily three times as much, potentially four times as much), stealth for the entire group to surprise your foes, the best scouting ability in the game, and the list isn’t really big for the Thief, but the Thief greatly excels in what it does.

Easily, you overstate things

Heck, I’m still waiting for him to do a high level fractal on his ranger … it’s not fun.

Sebrent.3625:

Heck, I’m still waiting for him to do a high level fractal on his ranger … it’s not fun.

Are high level fractals fun in general?

And this is coming from someone that only has fun running dungeons all the time. I think it’s because, at some point, people are literally only farming and only worried about efficiency and I just want to hit stuff.

No one lets you just hit stuff anymore

Swagger.1459:

dear kensaizen,

what is the max ranged dps output of each profession?

where are your wvw videos that will put all the ranger qq to rest?

love,
me

Go and test it and find out. You wont believe me anyway

Leo G.4501:

Easily, you overstate things

Actually I do not. I have a parser me and others have developed for the game.

You started posting in the Ranger forums 12 days ago saying you’re thinking of making a new toon, besides the Warrior, and Elementalist you play. Did you also do a hotjoin and lose to a Ranger recently?

KensaiZen.3740:

Swagger.1459:

dear kensaizen,

what is the max ranged dps output of each profession?

where are your wvw videos that will put all the ranger qq to rest?

love,
me

Go and test it and find out. You wont believe me anyway

‘I don’t know, and I’m not going to find out. And if I did know, I wouldn’t tell you. Why don’t you do it instead, even though I’m the one making the outlandish claims.’- translated for ya.

Leo G.4501:

Sebrent.3625:

Heck, I’m still waiting for him to do a high level fractal on his ranger … it’s not fun.

Are high level fractals fun in general?

And this is coming from someone that only has fun running dungeons all the time. I think it’s because, at some point, people are literally only farming and only worried about efficiency and I just want to hit stuff.

No one lets you just hit stuff anymore

Actually for skilled players the higher level Fractals are a blast. It’s just that when building groups, we will not take Rangers because they reduce the chance of success.

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Swagger.1459:

dear kensaizen,

what is the max ranged dps output of each profession?

where are your wvw videos that will put all the ranger qq to rest?

love,
me

Go and test it and find out. You wont believe me anyway

‘I don’t know, and I’m not going to find out. And if I did know, I wouldn’t tell you. Why don’t you do it instead, even though I’m the one making the outlandish claims.’- translated for ya.

Never claimed i knew what the exact MAX damage of the other classes are. Potential damage means squat to me. They are just pretty numbers. No one hits max damage 100%.

Effective damage range is where the real damage is at. How to test effective damage? Test it in live situations. Do you kill faster do you kill slower etc match time against damage in a live situation.

Viable builds also need to be factored in. No one runs GC in WvW. So going by GC numbers means nothing in that part of the game. Get it?

Hitting dummies to calculate is great if you are fighting dummies. Doesnt give you the true number when other factors arent considered.

no 2 person would even be equipt the same. What good would giving floating numbers do?

Lets say Ranger does 2.5dps and a guardian does 3dps. Which one does more damage? Guardian right? But the guardians dps rate drops due to utility casting (if not shout based) also they need to move from target to target. Mobs dont always stay still. This creates downtine. Dps must factor in downtine to get the true effective number.

Utilities with long cast times are a prime offender.

There are very few skills (traps in general) that will stop a Ranger shooting. Even ressing with pet the Ranger is still shooting.

Do your own test and think about it. Rangers damage really isnt as bad as it seems.

LadyLad.1389:

Leo G.4501:

Sebrent.3625:

Heck, I’m still waiting for him to do a high level fractal on his ranger … it’s not fun.

Are high level fractals fun in general?

And this is coming from someone that only has fun running dungeons all the time. I think it’s because, at some point, people are literally only farming and only worried about efficiency and I just want to hit stuff.

No one lets you just hit stuff anymore

Actually for skilled players the higher level Fractals are a blast. It’s just that when building groups, we will not take Rangers because they reduce the chance of success.

i.e. not fun. Once you start excluding professions just to succeed, you’re falling into routine, a strict routine you need to fall into just to get by. Repetition is only fun for so long which is why level 32 is as far as I got.

Leo G.4501:

LadyLad.1389:

Leo G.4501:

Sebrent.3625:

Heck, I’m still waiting for him to do a high level fractal on his ranger … it’s not fun.

Are high level fractals fun in general?

And this is coming from someone that only has fun running dungeons all the time. I think it’s because, at some point, people are literally only farming and only worried about efficiency and I just want to hit stuff.

No one lets you just hit stuff anymore

Actually for skilled players the higher level Fractals are a blast. It’s just that when building groups, we will not take Rangers because they reduce the chance of success.

i.e. not fun. Once you start excluding professions just to succeed, you’re falling into routine, a strict routine you need to fall into just to get by. Repetition is only fun for so long which is why level 32 is as far as I got.

You never balance for the lowest common denominator because you can not attain a level of balance the majority of the population could understand. In a game like GW2, that wants to enter into the esport arena, you have to balance the game by its highest skilled players.

This means balancing for stuff like high level fractals. That is the issue here.

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Swagger.1459:

dear kensaizen,

what is the max ranged dps output of each profession?

where are your wvw videos that will put all the ranger qq to rest?

love,
me

Go and test it and find out. You wont believe me anyway

‘I don’t know, and I’m not going to find out. And if I did know, I wouldn’t tell you. Why don’t you do it instead, even though I’m the one making the outlandish claims.’- translated for ya.

Never claimed i knew what the exact MAX damage of the other classes are. Potential damage means squat to me. They are just pretty numbers. No one hits max damage 100%.

Effective damage range is where the real damage is at. How to test effective damage? Test it in live situations. Do you kill faster do you kill slower etc match time against damage in a live situation.

Viable builds also need to be factored in. No one runs GC in WvW. So going by GC numbers means nothing in that part of the game. Get it?

Hitting dummies to calculate is great if you are fighting dummies. Doesnt give you the true number when other factors arent considered.

no 2 person would even be equipt the same. What good would giving floating numbers do?

Lets say Ranger does 2.5dps and a guardian does 3dps. Which one does more damage? Guardian right? But the guardians dps rate drops due to utility casting (if not shout based) also they need to move from target to target. Mobs dont always stay still. This creates downtine. Dps must factor in downtine to get the true effective number.

Utilities with long cast times are a prime offender.

There are very few skills (traps in general) that will stop a Ranger shooting. Even ressing with pet the Ranger is still shooting.

Do your own test and think about it. Rangers damage really isnt as bad as it seems.

Once again.

‘Do your own test because I’m not going to, I’m just going to make hairy claims with no proof and then tell other people to test it.’

You haven’t been very convincing in your arguments this entire thread. I don’t think it’s uncalled for, for people to ask you to back up your claims with some hard evidence.

LadyLad.1389:

Actually for skilled players the higher level Fractals are a blast. It’s just that when building groups, we will not take Rangers because they reduce the chance of success.

Out of curiosity, are Rangers the only class you won’t take on these Fractal runs, or are there others as well? What are the usual compositions of your groups?

jkctmc.8754:

This means balancing for stuff like high level fractals. That is the issue here.

Being balanced has little to do with it. Unwilling players are just not fun.

And the messed up thing is, it’s not even the so called ‘high level fractals’ that get farmed the most, it’s the mid level ones. That’s where the problem starts and likely trickles down (up?) into the higher level ones. I don’t have experience with 40+ fractals but I’m going to go out on a limb and guess the ratio of players there to ‘have a blast’ doesn’t increase with level. You’ll have the same ration of farmers/fun-seekers except there’s proportionately fewer players.

But that’s okay. I’m not expecting people to take any old player for their PuG in the high level fractals. I’d just prefer you not generalize all skilled players as being the same elitist min/max player you feel should be expected or that your flavor of fun has any more weight than others.

achensherd.2735:

LadyLad.1389:

Actually for skilled players the higher level Fractals are a blast. It’s just that when building groups, we will not take Rangers because they reduce the chance of success.

Out of curiosity, are Rangers the only class you won’t take on these Fractal runs, or are there others as well? What are the usual compositions of your groups?

For high level fractals the hierarchy goes like this: Guardian > Mesmer > Warrior > Elementalist > Engineer > Necromancer > Thief > Ranger. I’m not so sure about the Engi, Necro, Thief part, those three I might switch around a bit.

Thief is WAY ahead of engineer and necromancer, wtf. Thief is amazing in fractals, especially the dredge and harpy ones with shadow refuge and projectile destruction.

He even contends for the ele’s spots, since by fractal 40+ you better know how to avoid damage instead of relying on eles and guardians to heal your screwups. And thieves/warriors/mesmers do more aoe damage than eles with melee cleaving.

Zenith.7301:

Thief is WAY ahead of engineer and necromancer, wtf. Thief is amazing in fractals, especially the dredge and harpy ones with shadow refuge and projectile destruction.

He even contends for the ele’s spots, since by fractal 40+ you better know how to avoid damage instead of relying on eles and guardians to heal your screwups. And thieves/warriors/mesmers do more aoe damage than eles with melee cleaving.

I know that, I’ve ran Thief on fractals too. But the truth of the matter is that most pugs thieves are glass cannons who don’t even know they have other utilities beside Signet of Shadows and stealths. And the utilities they bring are also available to Guardians and Mesmers, so why risk it?

The main ranger problem is two fold :

-damage gear does not give the same amount of benefits it gives to other professions thus forcing rangers to go condition or bunker

-pets are very unreliable in hitting and die instantly in high level PvE content

So honestly , pets should either have significant damage reduction taken or be plain invulnerable , if they are gonna be 40% of a rangers damage output

Excluding certain classes in high level fractals does not make them “less fun”. It is done because including those classes instead of ones that bring more to the table increases your chance of a “smooth run”. A “smooth run” is much more fun (and quicker) than a long, dragged out run where you are wiping.

At the high level fractals, getting hit often means downed. As such, Guardians are easily #1 as they have passive aegis, provide aegis to everyone, and have various bubbles/walls they can put up to stop enemy attacks from hitting. Mesmers are similar to Guardians in this respect with Feedback, traited Focus, etc..

I have to disagree with the low rank of Thief posted earlier. The two best fractal groups I’ve had both had 2 thieves in them. We flew through content. Thief is not bad in PvE, it just has a much higher skill floor in PvE than in PvP (imagine that, it’s harder where noobseeker spam doesn’t work, lol).

The burning is lackluster if there is anyone else in the group reliably applying burning to the target.

The torch off-hand is better than the spirit, hands down. But that also means you’re stuck using a main-hand without dagger for evasion and cripple or war horn for fury / swiftness. So it comes down to choosing a poor spirit or a poor weapon setup. I’m not saying the torch is a bad weapon, I just have trouble finding the balance and synergy with my other traits. But through the use of Throw Torch, Bonfire and trusting people to recognize it and use combo finishers creates a more reliable application of burning without wasting your utility slot on a spirit. And if you’ve traited to reduce off-hand cool downs or increase your condition durations it becomes much, much easier. It’s pretty sad that this utility skill can be beaten through skilled play and proper cool down management just by yourself. Of course, in a five-man dungeon party, why would you rely only on yourself to cause burning? Especially if a Guardian is around to help, or an Ele. Even Mesmer’s have a chance to inflict it with the staff.

Mesmers are similar to Guardians in this respect with Feedback, traited Focus, etc..

Mesmers are, in my humble opinion, the best class in the game – or at least the one I enjoy playing most. The ability to block and reflect projectiles consistently and in a large area makes them better than a Ranger in terms of broad support, mostly because when you compare the two classes they work in similar ways:

i) We can both remove conditions from allies with pulsing fields. Mesmers pulse every second but the field has a shorter duration and slightly longer cool-down but doesn’t use the healing slot, it also provides confusion on enemies and chaos armor to allies that use finishers. Compared to Healing Spring which only pulses every 3 seconds. Null Field is also ground-targeted allowing it to be placed without movement (making it less effective for people that enjoy the not-so-necessary 1500 range). If using the focus, Mesmers can create a light combo field to remove more conditions (and it is on a much, much shorter cool down). Rangers have access to an on-use signet that doesn’t actually do much unless your party just got hit by Epidemic, and even then, why bother? It’ll happen again in 15 seconds.

ii) We both apply passive regeneration to allies who can stand in / position themselves around us. Mesmers have to trait for illusions and phantasms to provide a pulsing regen around them. Rangers should trait into Nature Magic to make their regeneration applied last 33% longer or use Dwayna’s runes to make the regeneration provided by Healing Spring last its cool down. Both seem to fall short, but the Inspiration tree has a lot of benefits that you don’t gain through Nature Magic. Mesmers can reduce the cool down of glamour skills, reduce the cool down of focus skills and allow them to reflect projectiles, add in an extra 15% damage from phantasms (which, correct me if I am wrong, affects the base damage of reflected projectiles from iWarden). When I look at Nature Magic, it just seems to fit in all the rejected traits from Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival while pigeon-holing every spirit trait, having horrible 5/15/25 breakpoints, and features, well, unnecessarily selfish traits. Nature’s Protection is good but in a bad tree. Rejuvenation is great but not worth the 5 points when you have on-use healing that can be more effective. Fortifying Bond is absolutely worthless unless you like watching your pet gain a fraction of the duration of the boons your receive. Fortifying Bond should be better, a lot better, considering the cap on the number of allies that can be affected by skills and how the targeting system favors players over pets and npcs, your pet is likely to never get those nice party boons (unless you play at an ineffective 1500 range).

And I say playing at 1500 range is ineffective because you have a second weapon-set, traits that benefit you for swapping weapons, the Longbow skills are pretty bad, sure we like Rapid Fire, but the rest of the bar isn’t anything to brag about and the terrible auto-attack does nothing to help it. To put it bluntly, if you’re able to flank the target effectively with the Short bow, you will match or beat the Longbow damage overall damage. You have access to better skills in fights that require movement and control. You have access to a stun, sure the cool down sucks and defiant stacks get in the way, but Piercing Arrows on trash gives you to opportunity to make it count. This, of course, is merely my opinion and the reasons I don’t use the Longbow, especially now that Greatsword is slightly better and provides as much defensive options in melee range as main-hand sword.

Actually for skilled players the higher level Fractals are a blast. It’s just that when building groups, we will not take Rangers because they reduce the chance of success.

This is completely understandable, most of the Ranger’s utilities are selfish, either affecting only us or our pets (and in the case of on-use untraited signets, only our pets). Considering most classes are capable of the same abilities the Ranger has, it makes sense to use what you feel gives your team the best chance to complete the objective at hand.

pets are very unreliable in hitting

Their animations make them easy to avoid, however Rangers have access to a lot of cripples and immobilize to make the job easier. Or you can take a dps loss and run a ranged pet.

But that’s okay. I’m not expecting people to take any old player for their PuG in the high level fractals. I’d just prefer you not generalize all skilled players as being the same elitist min/max player you feel should be expected or that your flavor of fun has any more weight than others.

Couldn’t have said it better myself, you don’t have to spend hours crunching numbers to have fun. To put it in a simplified context, I don’t need to use a Frog Suit to beat Super Mario 3, but it’s a lot of fun hopping over Bowser with one.

i.e. not fun. Once you start excluding professions just to succeed, you’re falling into routine, a strict routine you need to fall into just to get by. Repetition is only fun for so long which is why level 32 is as far as I got.

This is why I haven’t bothered getting past level 20 of fractals on any of my characters, same boring dungeon with people who got snobbier as I went along. I much prefer hopping around between the the 25 other dungeon paths with friends and guildies.
To end a long post I doubt many people will read through, what is your trait build for a glass-cannon? To me the term glass-cannon emphasizes the greatest risk for the greatest gains, and whether you like to think of it this way or not, that comes from our pets, especially when you consider how fragile the cat / bird pets are untraited, the following information provided by another kind person in another post is very handy.

Many people simply say “put 30 points in Beastmastery to make your pet stronger” … this shows that those 30 points gives your pet:
+14.1% damage
+14.28% crit chance
+3,000 health
+14.1% damage mitigation

Would be nice if it added in Healing Power / Condition Damage as well, but then it might be too useful.

If you’re going to use Torch … swap over to shortbow or use the Torch with an axe … lots of burning as you quickly launch your projectiles through the fire combo field.

The Torch’s combo field can also be used by the sword and greatsword for fire aura and blast finishered with a drake or ally for group might.

If you’re going to use Torch … swap over to shortbow or use the Torch with an axe … lots of burning as you quickly launch your projectiles through the fire combo field.

But the main-hand Axe feels very unsatisfactory compared to other weapons, however I do see your point about the opportunity for more projectile finishers through its skills. Although then if feels like you’re throwing the build into a very niche role. And I’m not a fan of main-hand sword rooting me, it’s something that I wish didn’t happen. Although it’s very funny to use it as a way to traverse a crowd of trash, just target the guy in the back and spam it while your Ranger flails across the room.

I’m not sure how the main-hand axe is rooting you. Even if you’re trying to shoot through a combo field, you can move around the combo field, angling so that your projectiles still go through it.

Ah, sorry, think in my head faster than my hands type, main-hand sword*

Sebrent.3625:

It is done because including those classes instead of ones that bring more to the table increases your chance of a “smooth run”. A “smooth run” is much more fun (and quicker) than a long, dragged out run where you are wiping.

Subjective.

A ‘smooth run’ can also be boring. It can be even more boring if all you’re really bringing is the same professions to do the same thing with the same weapons with the only variable being the player behind them so that you can then pick apart the player for the run not being as ‘smooth’ as you’d like.

Like I said before, I don’t care who you invite to your fractals or how you play, but the closer it is to sitting in the the same mesmer, guardian, etc template with the same skills and tactics, the less likely you’ll need to adjust to something different.

It’s subjective because I don’t enjoy doing things the same way all the time but maybe others do. That’s fine but the latter mentality has or will stagnate the content even when it doesn’t have to be.