Guild Wars 2

The ranger just needs some weapon, utilty and trait tweaks/buffs to make more builds viable.

My thoughts on tweaks that would help balance the class:

Weapons:

-Shortbow- Fix it so QZ applies the proper amount of haste again. Otherwise its more or less fine.

-Longbow- Needs a damage buff on auto attack and rapid fire. The knockdown and barrage are pretty good as is. An attack speed reduction could also work.

-Sword- Fix auto attack chain so it doesn’t totally destroy your mobility. Make moves 2-3 execute faster/less clunky.

-Axe- Increase auto attack damage if only 1 enemy is targeted. Increase attack speed on split axe slightly. Increase damage on boomerng axe. Make whirling axe reflect projectiles.

-Greatsword- Slightly increase damage on main auto attack chain. Increase execution speed or damage of 2nd attack. As it stands now the 2nd attack reduces your dps and does not have the benefit of evasion so it is never worth using. Swoop is pretty good as is although maybe a slight damage boost.

-Torch/Horn are ok.

-Dagger- stalker’s strike needs higher direct damage. Several stacks of bleeding would probably help more poison, which we already get on sword, traps, pets etc.

Utilities:

-Signets need better passives and shorter cooldowns.

-Sick em and guard need to be replaced with skills that are useful, such as shouts that affect the ranger himself/allies with buffs, condition removal etc.

-Spirits need a rework to make them viable. More HP, better activation chance, lower internal cooldown, quicker activation time on actives.

-Spike and viper traps could use a damage boost and all traps could use increased default activation and effecive radius. The radius is smaller than many weapons skills, smaller than necro wells, thief caltrops etc.

@Faze

Agreed with the ideas for GS, atm I wont even use it over 1h sword because I see no point.

Im hoping that with signets they make it so it doesnt need to be traited to affect both.

Thanks! Glad to hear it.

I would not consider updates “spoilers”

Thanks for the communication!

Thankyou for posting. Doesn’t take much to tell us there is hope out there, don’t be a stranger ranger.

Thanks for the info, hopefully you guys have some pet love in the update. Pet AI/pathing is still pretty bad and they die to quickly.

Will also be cool to see some more build variety. Any chance we may get a viable petless ranger build? Would be totally awesome to have a trait that removes the pet, buffs damage and adds some kinda skill to replace F2.

@Eliteseraph

Wow also didnt have nearly the amount of features gw2 has on release, so they had an easier time fixing. Calm your kitten gw2 is 2 months old, its still early.

I can see Maul becoming a channeled Pistol Whip/Hundred Blades type attack that stacked a condition with each hit, preferably vulnerability, but probably bleed.

Thank you for the response. It’s been long awaited and sounds optimistic.

I might be splitting hairs here, but I stress that “many signets, a shout or two, and spirits” are more than “a bit lackluster”. Some might be described that way, but others are downright useless and hurt you just to equip them in your utility loadout. Utilities are a large part of our problem, but not the only one. Thank you for acknowledging that.

All spirits are worthless aside from the elite one, which is still pretty bad IMO. Their HP is terrible, their area effect is terrible, the randomness of their effects is just a bad idea. They might possibly do absolutely nothing at all due to chance and their short life span, so they often hurt just to equip. Just revise the idea and start from scratch.

All Signets should affect both pet and ranger by default. Pets are part of the class, I believe the line drawn between ranger and his or her pet should be reduced in many aspects.

Signet of Renewal – Good idea on paper, bad in practice, mainly due to pets not being alive often enough to be relied upon. I’d rather depend on Healing Spring.

Signet of the Hunt – The passive is alright, the active ability is worthless though. 30 second cooldown for a small damage bonus is just not worth it.

Signet of Stone – Bad passive, too few Toughness. Active is good only when traited to affect you as well. Cooldown is a bit high, though.

Signet of the Wild – Nice passive, bad active for the cooldown length.

Shouts need a rehaul. In some cases I think they should just be scrapped.

“Sick ’em” is too much like Signet of the Hunt. Just scrap it and give us something more varied.

“Protect me” isn’t too bad, but anything that relies on a pet to function needs examining IMO. Maybe give it something good with traits, such as fully healing your pet, and/or instantly reviving it. It’s some times something you use in an emergency, you should be able to rely on it.

“Search and Rescue” needs some bug fixing, particularly when your pets goes to find somebody and gets “distracted” and does nothing. The healing from your pet should be equal to that of a player, not arbitrarily reduced.

“Guard” sucks. It’s just bad and of questionable utility. Give us something else.

I am sure that they will not remodel functional of apabilities. Maximum – will add some boons to the utility skills. All work will be with the numbers. Plus there, minus here… Although i passionately hope they remake sword “1”. Hate it.

What about making our pets attack while moving? Right now they do 1 attack every 4-6 seconds on a moving target rather then 1 attack every 1 sec even with the pet speed buff in the skrimishing tree. Or what about the beastmaster trait line being very lackluster? What I mean by the trait line being lackluster is that it adds little to no interaction with our pets which would be more “beastmaster” right now its just straight buffs to the pets which is very one-dimensional. Its more of a “beast” tree and less of a beastmaster tree. I really like the idea of a 30 point talent that allows us to mimic the pet ability. Not only would this add even more depth to using your pet ability it would be clearly a beastmaster.

I really would like to see pets attacking while moving and more interaction added to the beastmaster trait line.

Granted optimism from visit of John, happy as children forum rangers, immediately began to pour ideas in the theme =). So cute! Calm down, folks. First, the fact that he filled the post to calm rangers community – does not mean that he now sits and carefully read this topic. And besides, it is clear from his words that everything is ready and decided, they just do not know how to enter it without bugs.

Redscope.6215:

@Himei Forceful Shot is the underwater burst skill for the speargun.

Thanks for keeping the community informed Jon. I don’t play a ranger but I am interested to see what changes. They’re currently one of the least build-differentiated classes in the game.

Now lets wait for the thief crying to bleed into this post since its about buffing a class that isn’t the thief.

I play a thief and you won’t hear it from me. Of course, I don’t PvP and that’s where the majority of the crying happens between all classes.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

@Eliteseraph

Wow also didnt have nearly the amount of features gw2 has on release, so they had an easier time fixing. Calm your kitten gw2 is 2 months old, its still early.

Oh, I’m not angry. I’m glad Anet is staying on top of things, and at least taking the time to officially acknowledge that there are issues. Communication with the players is key to a successful game, imho.

All I’m really saying is that if Anet drops the ball on ranger issues, it’s gonna kitten off a lot of ranger players. That shouldn’t really be very surprising.

This sounds really promising, I’m constantly amazed at how much the game devs post on these forums its wonderful, keep up the good work!

oh dear god thank you. Thank you very much just please make good on it and follow through.

Thank you very much Mr Peters. You have made me very happy, I look forward to the next patch

This is great news, I’m really relieved to hear that at least something is going to be done to improve Rangers. I love the class and i’m glad I stuck with it even after the nerf, i’m looking forward to the changes. Thanks again for the communication :]

I do A LOT of PvP, so one thing I would love to see especially with sPvP and tPvP is that our pet be able to hold the points (when the player is nearby of course), even when the player steps out of the point. So we can run around and drop damage around while our pet functions as the support or vice versa. (it will make up for the pet not attacking moving targets, though I would love to see that also) Kinda like rampaging as one, you know? Pet-Ranger Bond should go hand in hand

Finally , that what we been waiting for. We will be crossing out fingers for the patch.

Well anet balances right, so Im sure when the patch finally comes out we will be fine. Look at what they did with backstab thieves, made it so no more insta gib but without nerfing them, just moved numbers around. I really was impressed.

So is there some reason you cant do update/design status posts on other class forums Jon?

Jon, thank you for your reply. It just takes something this simple to let us know you are out there and that you are working on some fixes. Thanks again.

Get over it….Nobody cares that your feelings were hurt.
All that matters is that they are actually doing something to fix it.
Are you expecting Arena net to beg you to come back and play their game after you already bought it?

P.S It’s just a game and it’s your loss if you don’t want to play

Dont wanna hear more stuff like kindergarden here. pls stay little more on topic. D:
no one is going to hurt someones feelings, so calm down.

Imagine what this thread is about. comment the frist post in relaxed way. remember this is good news, no reason to be kitten of each other ;)

Honestly was a little kitten when I saw the patch notes and found NO ranger updates. After reading this I am a bit relieved. I hope it comes soon.

finally a light at the end of the tunnel

heard next update should come end of this month. so long :S

Lol make our arrows have a navigation system installed.. Lol I can live with the current speed , but I hate it when it misses even when the target is not dodging.!

yay! maybe we will get some more WvW utility other than just aoe with poor damage! Just what I have been waiting for… actually going to hold off on leveling a mesmer to see the changes!

This is most interesting thanks. It’s good to know that you guys haven’t forgotten us

Might make me dust off my Ranger again if these changes are worthwhile.

Its more then just fixing signets/spirits. The ranger trait lines also have some pretty severe flaws. The Beast mastery trait line is full rather useless traits if you look at them in the bigger picture. Since I personally run 30 Beastmastery I’ll make a example of it. I find 2-3 of the traits I will never use. True this is evident in most of the trait lines. But Maskmanship gets two traits that should logically be in the Beast mastery line and would actually be useful for a Ranger that wishes to play as a beast master. I’m still trying to understand the logic behind placing BOTH Signet of the Beast master and Beast masters Bond in the Markmanship line?

I hope we will be seeing spirit builds in WvW.. maybe rangers could then be a decent support for zergs

It’s good to read their is a list of possible updates coming in the future to balance and tweak the Ranger. I can understand you postponed our fixes if they might have caused more issues then good. I’m looking forward to see the changes to our class in the upcoming patches!

Faze.6948

Skill 1 – works great with the evade, attack arcs, range and speed are all fine. But, please, take some of the sting out of the DPS nerf applied between BWEs. Currently the DPS would be weak for ranged, let alone melee.

I think the Evade forms part of the net damage to offset the lack of DPS.

e.g.,

Ranger vs Warrior Greatsword
two runs of auto-attack (not including vulnerability for simplicity)

Accumulated damage on Warrior

Slash: 203
Slice: 203
Stab: 240+evade

Slash: 203
Slice: 203
Stab: 240+evade

= 1292 dmg output

Accumulated damage on Ranger
(assume we evade on the 259 swing not the 333 just for this example)

Swing: 259
Slice: 0 (evaded – would normally be 259)
Strike: 333

Swing: 259
Slice: 0 (evaded – would normally be 259)
Strike: 333

= 1184 dmg output

So the evade has allowed the ranger to output more damage than than the warrior in this (contrived) example.

Or am I not understanding how it works?

Thanks for the update Jon.
Let’s wait and check, before any positive or negative comment.

I agree with many about make Signets working for both ranger and pet, then Signet of Beastmaster can be replaced with something else.

I would say also that a command like “stay” should be added to the normal abilities that a pet always has, because use “Guard” as utility skill is a wasted one.

@Skytohigh: yes, about Beastmastery and Marksmanship I agree. I don’t see too a logic about those signets in that line. I would prefer a petless trait all the time.

Mog.1589:

Thanks for the info, hopefully you guys have some pet love in the update. Pet AI/pathing is still pretty bad and they die to quickly.

Will also be cool to see some more build variety. Any chance we may get a viable petless ranger build? Would be totally awesome to have a trait that removes the pet, buffs damage and adds some kinda skill to replace F2.

Agree on the AI/pathing, pet should also avoid to stay in front of character or in dungeon it can be a problem with aggro. I have to dismiss pet always to avoid unwanted aggro before pull.

I would really, really love too a Major Trait (XI-XII, maybe in Marksmanship instead of Signet of Beastmaster) to have a petless ranger, especially in WvWvW.
A name? As you wish, something like Wild soul or Beast within or Feral bond can be nice.
X% stats of selected pet could go to Ranger and also the F2 ability (maybe other abilities too, since there are too few abilities already); swap pet can be available too and basically it would become a stance mechanic considering pets have different stats and abilities. Then F1 and F3 should be replaced by something else.

Why then not play a warrior or a thief? Simple, I prefer use a canonic archer/ranger with traps and bows, not firearms like pistols or rifle. Across many games gladly archers/rangers have no pet, here infact I can’t find an archer class I really like, also because pets are not working so well.

I think it can be hard – impossible see a petless ranger trait and mechanic developed, but, Mog I agree, it would be awesome.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Faze.6948

Skill 1 – works great with the evade, attack arcs, range and speed are all fine. But, please, take some of the sting out of the DPS nerf applied between BWEs. Currently the DPS would be weak for ranged, let alone melee.

I think the Evade forms part of the net damage to offset the lack of DPS.

e.g.,

Ranger vs Warrior Greatsword
two runs of auto-attack (not including vulnerability for simplicity)

Accumulated damage on Warrior

Slash: 203
Slice: 203
Stab: 240+evade

Slash: 203
Slice: 203
Stab: 240+evade

= 1292 dmg output

Accumulated damage on Ranger
(assume we evade on the 259 swing not the 333 just for this example)

Swing: 259
Slice: 0 (evaded – would normally be 259)
Strike: 333

Swing: 259
Slice: 0 (evaded – would normally be 259)
Strike: 333

= 1184 dmg output

So the evade has allowed the ranger to output more damage than than the warrior in this (contrived) example.

Or am I not understanding how it works?

Did you factor in the fact warriors GS has 3 attacks that can hit for 5k+? 100b does insane damage, whirlwind has hit me for 9k, and blade trail can do 5-6k easily. Lets not forget blade rush which does an average of like 4k. So yea, you are forgetting something.

I agree that GS is probably balanced around the damage avoidance of it’s #1 chain. (It’s the same for Mesmer Spear #1 chain)

This thread made my day, cant wait for the next patch now

GS isnt as weak as people make it out as, its quite strong actually ( in ranger standards ). It does need a few damage bumps but nothing dramatic, just give it more okittenoo damage skill like buff swoop and auto attack and really everything else is fine.

my primary issue with alot of classes compared to ranger is the sheer amount of might staking that is possible. even if all abilities were equal with utilities and traits wariors, necros, elementalists and engineers can all build to stack alot of might quickly and consistently. for some classes this is probably necessary others not so much, but it is one of the primary reasons that rangers feel underpowered.

granted i can stack my pet with alot of might with my sword auto attack and its awesome! that brings us back to pet functionality again and being able to hit what its chasing. i believe one ability could help go a long way to making this a buff for the ranger as well. a trait that allows pets to share our boons could be changed to we share each others boons so i could spec for HI damage that way and be on par with some of the other classes in terms of might stacking. this way you may not even have to touch the pet and its functionality , it could remain as punishment to those who stand still or try and channel hard casts while fighting a ranger, and reward folks for proper dodging of the pet.

this may allow for some really strong builds as far as damage goes but it would also allow our pet to be something to be afraid of.

EX:
randomguy: o crap here comes a ranger quick kill the pet first! it will kill his damage!

Ranger: o crap they are killing my pet i need to protect my pet!!

GS strong only against mobs in sPvE. In PvP of any sort there is nothing to do with it. In dungeons too.

Now that we’ve had an official response saying that we were being neglected, can I get the infraction removed for creating a topic pointing that out? I mean really…

Psychrome.9281:

my primary issue with alot of classes compared to ranger is the sheer amount of might staking that is possible. even if all abilities were equal with utilities and traits wariors, necros, elementalists and engineers can all build to stack alot of might quickly and consistently. for some classes this is probably necessary others not so much, but it is one of the primary reasons that rangers feel underpowered.

granted i can stack my pet with alot of might with my sword auto attack and its awesome! that brings us back to pet functionality again and being able to hit what its chasing. i believe one ability could help go a long way to making this a buff for the ranger as well. a trait that allows pets to share our boons could be changed to we share each others boons so i could spec for HI damage that way and be on par with some of the other classes in terms of might stacking. this way you may not even have to touch the pet and its functionality , it could remain as punishment to those who stand still or try and channel hard casts while fighting a ranger, and reward folks for proper dodging of the pet.

this may allow for some really strong builds as far as damage goes but it would also allow our pet to be something to be afraid of.

EX:
randomguy: o crap here comes a ranger quick kill the pet first! it will kill his damage!

Ranger: o crap they are killing my pet i need to protect my pet!!

Yea that about covers it, thats pretty much how you stop a ranger is stomp his pet. Which is why I think they need to add a feature like when your pet dies you get a 50% damage buff till you have another living pet or pet swap is up, makes killing that pet very very risky since it makes the ranger angry….And you wont like him when he’s ANGRY!.

Seems like you guys hit the jackpot.

I wouldnt mind some extra waiting when a dev comes in and reassures me that my class is seriously being looked at. Gz rangers! Too bad i already have too many ranged classes but i hope to see some cool new ranger play in a while. They deserve it.

yay finally! even if its not next patch i know its being looked at and rangers are close to being.. useable againxD thats all that matters

Lol was just thinking about this but, its a sad day when there are more thief archers than ranger archers in pvp.

Appreciate the update, keeping them coming.