Guild Wars 2

We need a greatsword re-vamp bad..I love having it out..but its so week

Vox Hollow.2736:

I think Oakheart Salve is in the Toughness line because DoTs are your Achilles’s heel while investing in Toughness. That one’s pretty sensible, actually, and I’ve used it from time to time for exactly that reason. Two Handed Training and Martial Mastery getting combined is a great idea, though.

Yeah it makes sense there, but still doesn’t get used that much because people who take 20 in Survival get both CC save-me’s and if they go 30 pts they get the condition removal or damage mitigation.

Nature Magic desparately needs the help.

Puting Oakheart Salve down in Nature Magic makes it accessible to have in ADDITION if you wanted to spec that way, plus would get shared with the pet.

miragezero.2738:

Please make point blank shot instant and also allow for jumping shots. :-D ??

I agree make point blank an instant shot skill, like how Ranger in Ascalon catacombs to their pushing skill animation with a powerfull kick

My main reason for posting is to raise awareness that winter’s bite (axe 2) is bugged atm and is unaffected my condition duration. I see that some1 has alrdy posted this on the bug report page, but I decided to post here as-well to ask Anet to plz not get my hopes up for making my class more on par with the others and just to say I’d settle for a class with working abilities/traits (moment of clarity *cough *cough)

THANK YOU devs for looking at this – I can’t wait. Like most everyone else (not all, but most), I’m on the “pets” bandwagon, specifically getting them to be able to attack on the move. THIS ALONE would be a huge, huge improvement, particularly in PvP and in the later PvE game, when swarming by large(er) packs of mobs is more prevalent. Move+Fire is very much a part of my combat strategy w/ SB, but when I I get chased I can’t rely on ANY of my pet’s damage output because they are running behind the thing that, in turn is chasing ME. This more than anything is why I run Wolves (because they will at least every once in a while perform a knockdown attack and scrape a little heat off me – problem is it’s not even remotely reliable). sometimes the Lynx (for the same reason).

I LOVE the idea of pet-specific trait lines, but I realize that’s a longer-term enhancement that will need extensive development and testing. Great idea though, whoever came up with it.

Weapons need some love, I agree, but not neatly as much as pets, IMHO.

Thanks again for the hard work!

PS – A Beastmaster Trait: “Get the ^%$#!@ Out of the Red Circle!” (aka: “Danger Sense” or “6th Sense” perhaps?) would really help pets in Dungeon situations. Basically make it a 10, maybe even a 20 point Trait selection that, when active, without user action automatically tells the pet to stop what it’s doing and run out of a red “incoming fire” circle on the floor, instead of just standing there waiting for the hammer to fall. I find that most of the time my pet gets downed its because of an AOE dropped by a big mob, and even with Recall most of the time there’s no way for them to avoid it (if I even see it from bow range, which sometimes is just simply impossible in a dungeon situation).

Just an idea…

Does anyone know when this might be happening? Feeling like this may give me a reason to log in again.

@ Incubus
The balance patch is the 15th I believe. Not sure what’s coming with it though.

Why do I have this horrible feeling that this patch will be very underwhelming …

Thank you Vashtion, I appreciate it. @Sabaz I hear ya, just hoping for the best. crosses fingers

add an interrupt on one of the one handers plz!!! like mesmer pistol off hand… why do i have to use a two hander just to stop an enemy stomp !

miragezero.2738:

Please make point blank shot instant and also allow for jumping shots. :-D ??

Jumping shots are already in the game. Just start jumping when you Rapid Fire. It’s one of the tricks you can do to make your LB skills go a bit further and get some clearance.

Sabaz.6978:

Why do I have this horrible feeling that this patch will be very underwhelming …

I have the same feeling. Given the horrible and dodgy nature of ANet about the SB Nerf and corresponding QZ bug, I do not feel like they will even acknowledge this issue they have created.

Usually you’ll see ANet respond pretty well with “we know this is a bug, we’re working on it.”

We even had a 20 page thread about the SB nerf, a perfect place for them to say “the speed of SB with QZ isn’t workin, and we WILL be fixing that”

But we had a patch since then with no ranger changes at all, and not once in that thread did they acknowledge the bug only stated that their animation change was indeed a flat nerf and L2P your burst isn’t fun.

I mean, I’m excited for Spirits/Signets, but there are so many little things our class could use that I don’t think would take long to address or test…

I think if the things Mr Peters mention is worked and some fixing with pets is done then we are ready to play again.
Pets,we need the pets so bad.Fix em plz,not remove em.We are not warriors but we need pets to be the less bad thing in our proffesion cause we rely too much on them

I think the core problem with pets isn’t that they’re a large part of a player’s contribution, but rather that they specifically contribute 45%+ of our damage.

My suggestion is to overhaul the nature of pets. Maybe do stuff like give certain pets player buffs on-hit, others being given Blast combo finishers, etc. in return for severely reduced damage numbers. The idea is for pets to become a meaningful bonus for the profession without irrevocably tying the profession to the mechanic.

Warriors are still effective without Adrenaline. Elementalists are still effective even if they only sit in one Attunement. Necros aren’t bricks if they don’t use Death Shroud. Mesmers aren’t forced to spam Shatters to be effective. Only Rangers absolutely, irrevocably need to depend on their pets just to achieve parity with the bottom end of everyone else.

Aldracity.9463:

Only Rangers absolutely, irrevocably need to depend on their pets just to achieve parity with the bottom end of everyone else.

With you on that 100%. Nerfing Ranger damage to such a large degree because of the presence of our pets hurts us as a class. Other classes are not affected in such a way by their mechanics, often turning their unique mechanic into a useful or powerful tool, where ours some times feels like a shackle.

YAY i can’t wait.. All my friends told me to roll another class so I can help more in SPvP after patch! I can’t wait to see the changes! You can spoil it for me

Can we get an update on were you dev’s stand at this point in time with one week to go till patch? I have this funny scenario in my head were all the Dev’s are in a room testing the ranger class against some of the cookie cutter mesmer shatter builds or thief spec’s and wondering how da faq any Ranger’s kill anything in PvP :p

ps, i dont alway make itinto the last map when pug’ing, but when I do my 4min CD spirit elite dies to one treb shot =.=

Ghertu.7096:

I guess, people who ask for get rid of pets don’t like their aesthetics in the main, not mechanics. They think like “I am ranger, agile and cunning, so why I forced to carry this clumsy bag of fur, that they name pet? It makes me look bulky!” So, just use birds – they are almost unnoticeable on the game screen. Or maybe Anet should give us small, flying, endure and long-ranged pets, that will be just another fancy accessory for ranger, like minis.

Yeah i like this idea. If i could carry around say an air elemental as a pet that would be amazing.

Of course pets need major fixes. More responsiveness, better control, good AI, resistance to AOE, better tracking, ability to hit moving targets, better f2 skills, etc. I also want them to follow me down cliffs instead of running 5 miles backwards to walk down a path.

I don’t like this idea, I like different categories of pet. Plus it let the choice to the player to choose if he does or does not like have a bird, a canine or a moa for example. I also vary builds available and style of ranger you can encounter.

If some players don’t like any pets but birds, you have the right to take birds, but don’t impose this to the others^^

A lot of good ideas in this thread. I vote for any of them as long as they do the following:

1.) Return the damage of either the longbow or shortbow to a competitive level. We have no competitive ranged DPS. Thieves, Warriors, and Elementalists are all better choices for ranged damage.

2.) Fix the pet’s contribution to our damage, if you can’t fix the pets so they can actually do damage to a human player and not die in 2 seconds, then you need to eliminate the need to have them

3.) Give us at least one valuable utility skill that actually works as intended. It doesn’t have to be as imba as the portal, but something we could actually slot or even use might be innovative.

Thanks, for your words, but until you actually fix the Ranger mine is shelved in favor of a sub-80 alt. It is literally 100% more useful and fun than the current mess you have made of this class.

P.S. If you wanted to fix both bows or give us some sort of viable AOE damage it would be great.

DivineDerivative.2489:

A lot of good ideas in this thread. I vote for any of them as long as they do the following:

1.) Return the damage of either the longbow or shortbow to a competitive level. We have no competitive ranged DPS. Thieves, Warriors, and Elementalists are all better choices for ranged damage.

2.) Fix the pet’s contribution to our damage, if you can’t fix the pets so they can actually do damage to a human player and not die in 2 seconds, then you need to eliminate the need to have them

3.) Give us at least one valuable utility skill that actually works as intended. It doesn’t have to be as imba as the portal, but something we could actually slot or even use might be innovative.

Thanks, for your words, but until you actually fix the Ranger mine is shelved in favor of a sub-80 alt. It is literally 100% more useful and fun than the current mess you have made of this class.

P.S. If you wanted to fix both bows or give us some sort of viable AOE damage it would be great.

^

Playing a level 80 geared thief instead of my ranger since the latest nerf and after experiencing a thief in PvP, I can’t even stand my ranger anymore while I have 620 hours logged on her. First time ever I ditched a character after spending so much time on it.

Only if ranger receives a massive buff to bring it back to the BWE2 power where it was on par with other classes will I even think about playing her again.

Nice to hear Rangers are going to get some love. I’m a newbie – lvl 24 – but I seem to recall that in DAOC archers always got a +distance bonus based being on castle walls, etc. I remember sitting on a wall with a bunch of archers waiting for a caster to get close and then boom. Like to see that in GW2 and it is historically/physically accurate.

Erraticus.5460:

Nice to hear Rangers are going to get some love. I’m a newbie – lvl 24 – but I seem to recall that in DAOC archers always got a +distance bonus based being on castle walls, etc. I remember sitting on a wall with a bunch of archers waiting for a caster to get close and then boom. Like to see that in GW2 and it is historically/physically accurate.

It took years for Daoc to fix Scouts. They were worse off than Rangers in GW2 are today. Eventually they were fixed and became a solid class.

Point is, I won’t be surprised if it is just a minor adjustment on the 15th. Players won’t be dancing in the streets after the patch

My biggest problem is lack of input from the Devs, I played RIFT hardcore for over a year and when there was problems the Devs always acknowledged them and they would even put up patch notes ahead of the patch date so ppl could see what to expect… GW2 devs need to get their kitten together a little (I know its alot of work but still…) and not focus on stupid helloween events and going to some stupid island thats gonna just give us more ways to look pretty….

So I dont have high hopes for the 15th (but its not a big deal as I found a ranger build that works well), and I think the main reason is being spoiled by the Devs over at Trion

I am predicting this will be a baby step – hopefully in the right direction.

I don’t get peoples negativity. Saying things like bet they don’t fix anything or won’t hold my breath. Have they shown they are incompetent in the past? Maybe show some support. Why put in the effort if this is what they get for it. Go to another forum cause it does no one any good.

I’ve been playing for one week so far. Tried a few professions but stuck with ranger. So farthe only issue iI have is Longbow dps pales in comparison to shortbow and I don’t like shortbow. Makes weapons ill pass. This is a ranger so shouldn’t even have to think about that if don’t want to. I like ranger because the skills flow. Necromancer feels like they just stuck spells in random places without any thought. Its chaotic mess. Being able to rearrange the toolbar would fix that. Really they only need to increase the fire rate of Longbow closer to shortbow. Then on both weapons make sure we have escape skills. We already do but seams not enough. Need 2 of) hem to rotate in boss battle.

I’m at level 20 and have yet to find a half decent utility. They all suck. Pets feel pretty good but looking at level 80 stats I’m hoping companionship thing that increases pet stats after kill scales at higher levels. Otherwise its just a 15 percent include ease stacked 25 times. Guessing on numbers there.

Overall dps wise I feel good in pve. Haven’t tried pvp since you get nothing to show for it. I can take ddown boss guys solo yet its a good dirty fight. I know we all are on different skill levels and play the game either pvp or pve but I’m for the most part happy with my ranger.

Darn auto correct on zoom. Can’t edit posts? To clarify I was trying to say I shouldn’t have to even think about malee weapons on ranger. Then other part was 15 percent when stacked up to 25 times.

Please find another hobby Torrentula, trolling is not good for your health..

Torrentula.7410:

I don’t get peoples negativity. Saying things like bet they don’t fix anything or won’t hold my breath. Have they shown they are incompetent in the past?

Apart from the Shortbow nerf?

Yes actually, a lot during the balancing in GW1. The least of which is now that Rangers and Eles are officially doomed to be ever sub par in PvE because they don’t have the man power for the large balance changes. Paragons as well except for for the whole Imbagon build putting them in a weird place PvE wise.

Our class is too flawed.

1. The shortbow nerf is just merely the veil that was lifted to reveal how flawed the ranger class is. Was the shortbow overpowered? No. However, compared to all the other ranger weapons, everything was subpar. Condition build? Shortbow was superior. Power build? Shortbow was superior. Druid build? Shortbow works better. Spirit build? Shortbow uses their procs better. When shortbow got nerfed to the level of all the other ranger weapons, everyone now realizes how bad all our weapons are.

2. We have no defensive capabilities. Mesmers have their teleports and clones. Thieves have their stealth. Guardians have a huge array of protections, heals and aegis. Warriors have their hp, armor and roars. Engineers with their elixirs and toys. Necromancers with their many healthbars. Elementalists even at a pinch has earth attunement. We have “Protect Me!”. Or if you trait 30 points in Marksmanship, Signet of the Beastmaster for Signet of Stone. Other classes don’t have to spend 30 points to get a defensive skill, do they? And don’t go into the sword or dagger evasive skills. Other classes have similar abilities on their weapons, like Mesmer clones, Thief CnD, etc.

3. Our pets are useless when they are needed. In world pve, you can stow away your pet and be absolutely fine. That’s not because we are overpowered. It’s world pve that is underpowered. Nothing in the world is difficult enough. But go into wvw, spvp, dungeons and that is where a ranger becomes half as effective. If pets really are supposed to be 40-50% of our ability, then we are doomed. How many rangers can really say their pet is 40-50% as effective as you are in spvp, wvw or dungeons? That’s a massive flaw that Arenanet cannot simply fix at a whim. If pets are going to be 40-50% of our ability, then it requires a complete overhaul of how mob AI works. Every single change they make for pets to make us better, will probably make mobs equally powerful. If pets can hit on the move, forget kiting mobs in pve. If pets are smarter and act more intelligent to stay alive and kill the enemy, the mob will do the same back on us.

It really hurts me to see so many problems with my favorite class. I have more than 750 hours put into my ranger and even got the Kudzu for my ranger. Yet honestly, I don’t have a lot of fun in wvw with my ranger at the moment.

In balance and partly tongue-in-cheek, I think we are possibly one of the better classes underwater.

Yes i agree with florence. When i hit 80 and got a full range of exotics, i was so glad i was able to hit up to sometimes 15,000-20,000 damage with the longbow rapid fire ability [provided it ALL crits], and when i thought that was alot, boy, warriors proved me SO very wrong.

My pets DO contribute damage i know, but it’s that one or two hits before they die because some champion abomination shiet does 70,000 damage to a pet lynx, or some drake does 10,000 in one breath. I doubt any non-bear pet, can survive that. I mean i can evade, but my pet does not know how to double tap the left or right key. Considering that, i couldn’t be bothered to hit F4 to switch pets, both dies in a whim anyway. I REALLY do not like my pets at all. If your argument is that i can’t control my pets well, i really won’t argue, i can hit F3 if i’d like to make it return, but i don’t see a point to that really.

I love my ranger to bits though, i have a warrior too. But i stuck with my ranger.

I’m hopeful that they will solve the problems that this class has.
I have not much time to play, so I have not thought level up and equip other alts.
In other words my continuity in the game depends on the next update on 15 or 16 November. Otherwise I’ll have to stop playing and I will look at some point if this is solved ..
… and the reality is I do not want to leave the game because I like it, I have simply no time to play alts … Please ANet: D

Sorry for my English!

The Idea behind having a pet is that some sort of micro management is involved..And its really insulting when that micro management gets dumbed down to, Attack, Retreat, Use ability that probably won’t work if it isnt AOE, and then next Pokemon.

I don’t know why they don’t do away with pets dmging or foes and Instead have them set permanently stick to you, periodially doing Cool animations!
They should avoid dmg when you dodge roll, have hp that could be balanced according to the power of the skills they posses, and then just have the F1-F3 skills grant Boons/Conditions..or maybe if we lucky some unique ability.

Hell will they be to imba then? Is that the role of spirits? I feel that this would solve everything Who is completely appose to this idea and why ?

Kadulu.8476:

I don’t like this idea, I like different categories of pet. Plus it let the choice to the player to choose if he does or does not like have a bird, a canine or a moa for example. I also vary builds available and style of ranger you can encounter.

If some players don’t like any pets but birds, you have the right to take birds, but don’t impose this to the others^^

Are you sure that you understood my post properly? My English is very imperfect, but your response absolutely doesn’t fit what I wanted to say.

trion sucked hardcore at the beginning…it took a couple years for them to get it together and be the company they are now with their customers. Took them going FTP and forcing themselves to rely on customer support to make money.

Ditton.3149:

trion sucked hardcore at the beginning…it took a couple years for them to get it together and be the company they are now with their customers. Took them going FTP and forcing themselves to rely on customer support to make money.

But anet has been at this for 7 years already?

I’ll just give my two coppers on weapons:

1h sword seems ideal for single engagements, but is flashy without payoff.

Other than CotW, offhands are oversimplified and forgettable.

GS is effective, but #4 could use AoE power. #5 is nice, but 30s cooldown has a “one-and-done” feel, leaving you high and dry through critical points in battle (though lack of utility options is partly to blame).

SB is the go-to but feels weak and relies on stacking bleed, forcing you to the rear 180* of your target, which can often send you away from your team or is simply not possible.

The warrior has a proper LB, not the ranger. I don’t get it. A LB has distance and payload, it should work to rain hell down on an enemy from a safe distance. #1 is slow and without impact. #2-3 miss this point entirely and #5 needs to come like a storm When an elementalist conjures a better bow for me, that says it all.

Key note: synergy! Start drawing lines between traits, utility, weapons and pets. There should be a near-solid mesh of payoff between combining skills, pets and weapons that give everything meaning and provide depth to each build.

Ending with I do like: Axes! I certainly welcome improvement (not bouncing into non-hostile creatures like Veteran Oakhearts, please!) but they’re the most pure fun (at least in PvE).

Just found this in the PvP forum …………………………

“According to Jon Peters in the mists a few hours ago:

- The profession part of the upcoming patch notes is roughly 5 pages long.
- ~16 bullet points for rangers.
- ~30 bullet points for engis.
- Mesmers saw the fewest number of changes.
- “Tons” of bug fixes.
- “Some” balance changes.
- Portal is a cool ability that’s important to the game but has some problems (whatever that means from their perspective idk).
- The ability to use custom dyes in pvp is possibly coming in a December patch.
- Broken treb and lord announcements should be fixed soon.
- Target of target and player cast bars are low priority but something they might look at in the future.
- Probably no hope of ever letting us disable the terrible skill queue.
- Custom rankings, obs mode, etc. all “on the way” (as usual)."

16 points :P only? Hahaha hope they are good 16 points.

I’m not expecting much. I thought this was going to be a big balance patch, but it sounds like it’s more bug fixing with a side of buffs/nerfs. Now some classes, like the engineer, are hindered by nasty bugs. If they fix the bug that prevents them from getting stats from their weapons while carrying a bundle, that will be huge for them. But rangers? I look at the ranger bug sticky thread and I don’t see any panaceas waiting there. Ranger bugs are mostly incorrent tooltip displays and such. And those fixes, while appreciated, aren’t going to help rangers perform any better. Rangers need trait reworks, mobile pet attack animations, tweaks to weapon coefficients, better condition removal, utility skill buffs (spirits! shouts! signets!), etc. We don’t need bug fixing, we need design fixing.

But hopefully there will be some good stuff in the patch. Maybe they’ll make the signet of the beastmaster trait baseline.

Then again, it’ll probably be:

Rangers

• Increased the vitality of white raven.
• Increased the vitality of the black widow.
• Fixed the trait window to display the correct beastmastery pet attribute bonus.

Levetty.1279:

Torrentula.7410:

I don’t get peoples negativity. Saying things like bet they don’t fix anything or won’t hold my breath. Have they shown they are incompetent in the past?

Apart from the Shortbow nerf?

Yes actually, a lot during the balancing in GW1. The least of which is now that Rangers and Eles are officially doomed to be ever sub par in PvE because they don’t have the man power for the large balance changes. Paragons as well except for for the whole Imbagon build putting them in a weird place PvE wise.

Try a 16 beastmaster build. Take Scavenger’s Strike, Enraged Lunge, Brutal Strike and Call of Protection. The rest is pretty much up to you, and enjoy the stupidly broken damage you can belt out with no regard to your energy costs. Anet gave rangers a broken build comparable to the Ritualist’s SoS. Not their fault everyone was too busy getting erections over the thought of being archers to use it.

Jon Peters has apparently said there will be 16 bullet points of ranger updates in the next patch.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12wne4/according_to_jon_peters_profession_part_of/

So now the questions starts.Is 16 enough?More than enough?Or just as many as they can make in this certain time?
Does patience pays you off or another dissapointment that will put an end in this prof?
Lets wait and see

I would like to be like this:
1.Spirits
2.Signets
3.weapons
4.pets
5…..
6……

So 16 for Ranger and 30 for Engineer?

Each point for Ranger better be filled to the brim with changes and the 30 for Engineers better involve nerfs to Grenades and bomb kits otherwise that is completely unfair.

I just have a feeling this patch won’t be enough now and the few changes they are doing to Mesmer that patch will probably be nerfing shatter builds meaning that the game will basically be dead to me as I don’t feel like leveling up another character so soon.

I hope bugs fixing isn’t a part of those “16 bullet”, but real changes.

Levetty.1279:

So 16 for Ranger and 30 for Engineer?

Each point for Ranger better be filled to the brim with changes and the 30 for Engineers better involve nerfs to Grenades and bomb kits otherwise that is completely unfair.

I just have a feeling this patch won’t be enough now and the few changes they are doing to Mesmer that patch will probably be nerfing shatter builds meaning that the game will basically be dead to me as I don’t feel like leveling up another character so soon.

are you kidding? I have a engineer and a ranger, both are subpar right now. Thank god you aren’t in any kind of game development because nerfing is the exact opposite of what needs to be done in gw2. All classes should be on equal ground, and I’d rather be brought up to the best damage level in the game than bring all the other classes down to a lower level.

I’m in agreement with the update giving us more power, better DPS, and range. nothing sucks worse than being on top of a wall in WvWvW and not being able to hit oncoming enemies from a distance. I don’t want to drop my ranger as I do like the class and have a good amount of time invested in him, just please come through for us ANet.

Destin.2460:

Levetty.1279:

So 16 for Ranger and 30 for Engineer?

Each point for Ranger better be filled to the brim with changes and the 30 for Engineers better involve nerfs to Grenades and bomb kits otherwise that is completely unfair.

I just have a feeling this patch won’t be enough now and the few changes they are doing to Mesmer that patch will probably be nerfing shatter builds meaning that the game will basically be dead to me as I don’t feel like leveling up another character so soon.

are you kidding? I have a engineer and a ranger, both are subpar right now. Thank god you aren’t in any kind of game development because nerfing is the exact opposite of what needs to be done in gw2. All classes should be on equal ground, and I’d rather be brought up to the best damage level in the game than bring all the other classes down to a lower level.

Engineers do stupidly large amounts of AoE damage in those kits. No class should be able to do that, Eles are probably number 2 in terms of AoE and not even they can keep up. I’m fed up of these Engineer lies that they are sub par, maybe stuff like Pistol or flamethrower kit needs some improvements but Grenades and bomb Kit are some of the most OP stuff in the game and needs nerfs, even more so if Kits get stats from weapons.

Comparing Engineers to Rangers is a Joke. Rangers need buffs in practically every area and their unique mechanic at the moment is actually making them even worse. As I said I don’t think 16 bullet points will be enough especially if it is mostly bug fixes but we will shall see what they are.

Levetty.1279:

Engineers do stupidly large amounts of AoE damage in those kits. No class should be able to do that, Eles are probably number 2 in terms of AoE and not even they can keep up. I’m fed up of these Engineer lies that they are sub par, maybe stuff like Pistol or flamethrower kit needs some improvements but Grenades and bomb Kit are some of the most OP stuff in the game and needs nerfs, even more so if Kits get stats from weapons.

Comparing Engineers to Rangers is a Joke. Rangers need buffs in practically every area and their unique mechanic at the moment is actually making them even worse. As I said I don’t think 16 bullet points will be enough especially if it is mostly bug fixes but we will shall see what they are.

Actually a lot of Engineer builds are pretty bad. Turrets, on a scale of reliablility, are somewhere between our pets and spirits. Only bomb kit and grenade kit are really useful for PVP, leaving flamethrower tool and elixir kits as nothing. Two of their elites are pretty much useless too. I’m not saying they’re as bad as ranger (not even close), but that doesn’t mean they’re good either.

Grenades from the kit arc really slowly and people can run out of the AOE before it hits. It’s also very hard to fight with grenade kits if the enemy is coming after you. You can run outside a bombs range before it explodes and the engineer needs to be right next to you to do damage with them. On my engineer i never use bomb kit and grenade kit is reserved for when i’m standing in a safe place and no enemies are after me.

With all that said, i have to wonder why they’re giving engie so many fixes. Yeah it’s not good, but it’s not that bad either. Two whole viable build is more than necro, ele, and ranger can say. Maybe those 16 patches we got are all massive substantial ones while all of the engie ones are minor tweaks and bug fixes.