Guild Wars 2

Natfrog.4310:

jcbroe.4329:

Rangers will have the ability, with Quickdraw, to use 2 consecutive Swoops or Sword 2 leap chains, combined at any point with Lightning Reflexes for another leap and a CC counter as well.
Now, I’m not arguing that it’s top tier escape mobility, but if all of that isn’t enough, then the person is in an unwinnable situation or completely out of position to begin with and is very justly getting punished for not playing better.

The CD on Lightning reflexes is what? So I do this and just go hide in a keep until it is back up? Does swoop remove immob or can I trait it to do so in some way? Maybe I’m lucky and avoid the first thief but what about number 2 or 3? Again not bashing skill level but sheer numbers on low teir servers do not have the number of enemies that higher tier servers do. There is a reason Rangers are not part of the comp EVER when concidering top teir server builds. They just do not compete. Not saying rangers are bad but it takes a very talented individual to take a ranger of any spec into a zerg and emerge. Maybe this is why your opinion and the other guys opinion do not match up. I am on SoS server and a lot of the time we are outmanned and the other servers have map ques on OUR BL. When we take 35-40 and hit a group of 60 a ranger is an easy target and there is no tucking tail and running. You literally cannot strafe around a blob that fat. You have to double dodge it then you are left there trying to absorb and heal in the blast and with the low armor and low endurance regen you simply cannot get into the water field and reset there is no time to do so so you have to stay out alone in most cases. Eles are dropping fire storm while moving and rangers casting barrage are stuck in one spot. so either you do nothing but run or you get LUCKY and rain arrows. So many skills need reworks and need to be brought back into independant tiers of weapon skills. Why is barrage the ONLY skill where you MUST remain stationary while eles get a similar skill they can cast while moving?

you Run EB or SoR , Swoops has build in evades so does Sword , if the double swoop does not work you have Sword 2 then into LR to break immobilise by then Swoop is back of cooldown and your able to swoop swoop away again without risk of immobilise.

and of course anyone will melt trying to run through a zerg that big , but you can easly Cut through thin lines of the zerg and quicking get away, though you;d need to kitten the situation first before trying , thats the difference between someone trying to use a Ranger as faceroll vs that a Ranger has learned how to use a ranger, its no Warroir nor guardain with Aegis and stacks of stability to protect us.

ether way this combo has given us a very good way of slipping past lines without being hindered too much to the point it will take a good 8-15 people to pin you down.

Here is the sad part to all this… I love ranged play more than any other style of play(personal preference). Why must I NEED to be a warrior/guard/thief/ele to be useful in WvW? Sure you see other classes but the bulk of the classes are those 4. If they were balanced wouldn’t you see an equal number of all classes? Dungeons.. Ele/Warrior/Guardians/thieves again in almost every comp. sPvP ele/guardian/warrior/thief do you see a pattern yet? They are more saught after simply because they are the best in slot reguardless of my opinion or favortism these are just fact. Again yes I know other classes are played but honestly answer the question which are the best? Which do you not like to play the most? Which are looked down the most upon from dungeons because they are not as “group friendly” and honestly not as good as others?

Every class is facing similar situations Nat – and getting away and taking a breather in a keep or tower while CD’s return isn’t a bad thing.

The way I see it is there are Ranger builds that work well solo, there are builds that work well in Havoc. And there are also builds that work well in zerg combat allowing survival. One has to find the comfort level to match their skill.

Then at the end of the day there are just better players who can play naked and do well. At the end of the day I don’t think Arena Net designed the game for a single player to face and live against 50. I could be wrong though.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Natfrog.4310:

jcbroe.4329:

Rangers will have the ability, with Quickdraw, to use 2 consecutive Swoops or Sword 2 leap chains, combined at any point with Lightning Reflexes for another leap and a CC counter as well.
Now, I’m not arguing that it’s top tier escape mobility, but if all of that isn’t enough, then the person is in an unwinnable situation or completely out of position to begin with and is very justly getting punished for not playing better.

The CD on Lightning reflexes is what? So I do this and just go hide in a keep until it is back up? Does swoop remove immob or can I trait it to do so in some way? Maybe I’m lucky and avoid the first thief but what about number 2 or 3? Again not bashing skill level but sheer numbers on low teir servers do not have the number of enemies that higher tier servers do. There is a reason Rangers are not part of the comp EVER when concidering top teir server builds. They just do not compete. Not saying rangers are bad but it takes a very talented individual to take a ranger of any spec into a zerg and emerge. Maybe this is why your opinion and the other guys opinion do not match up. I am on SoS server and a lot of the time we are outmanned and the other servers have map ques on OUR BL. When we take 35-40 and hit a group of 60 a ranger is an easy target and there is no tucking tail and running. You literally cannot strafe around a blob that fat. You have to double dodge it then you are left there trying to absorb and heal in the blast and with the low armor and low endurance regen you simply cannot get into the water field and reset there is no time to do so so you have to stay out alone in most cases. Eles are dropping fire storm while moving and rangers casting barrage are stuck in one spot. so either you do nothing but run or you get LUCKY and rain arrows. So many skills need reworks and need to be brought back into independant tiers of weapon skills. Why is barrage the ONLY skill where you MUST remain stationary while eles get a similar skill they can cast while moving?

you Run EB or SoR , Swoops has build in evades so does Sword , if the double swoop does not work you have Sword 2 then into LR to break immobilise by then Swoop is back of cooldown and your able to swoop swoop away again without risk of immobilise.

and of course anyone will melt trying to run through a zerg that big , but you can easly Cut through thin lines of the zerg and quicking get away, though you;d need to kitten the situation first before trying , thats the difference between someone trying to use a Ranger as faceroll vs that a Ranger has learned how to use a ranger, its no Warroir nor guardain with Aegis and stacks of stability to protect us.

ether way this combo has given us a very good way of slipping past lines without being hindered too much to the point it will take a good 8-15 people to pin you down.

So where does my longbow fit into this whole equasion of yours? Swoop is a GS skill if I’m not mistaken and sword 2 is obviously on the sword but yet not one single thing you have mentioned was about the longbow. You can play ranger however you chose I respect that. But I promise you that you cannot and will not run double mele on any top tier server and get bags. You just won’t you melt. It’s that simple. As a ranger you cannot take the hits unless you run full bunker and when you run full bunker chances are you are better off going guard or warrior honestly simply because they offer more.

Natfrog.4310:

jcbroe.4329:

Rangers will have the ability, with Quickdraw, to use 2 consecutive Swoops or Sword 2 leap chains, combined at any point with Lightning Reflexes for another leap and a CC counter as well.
Now, I’m not arguing that it’s top tier escape mobility, but if all of that isn’t enough, then the person is in an unwinnable situation or completely out of position to begin with and is very justly getting punished for not playing better.

The CD on Lightning reflexes is what? So I do this and just go hide in a keep until it is back up? Does swoop remove immob or can I trait it to do so in some way? Maybe I’m lucky and avoid the first thief but what about number 2 or 3? Again not bashing skill level but sheer numbers on low teir servers do not have the number of enemies that higher tier servers do. There is a reason Rangers are not part of the comp EVER when concidering top teir server builds. They just do not compete. Not saying rangers are bad but it takes a very talented individual to take a ranger of any spec into a zerg and emerge. Maybe this is why your opinion and the other guys opinion do not match up. I am on SoS server and a lot of the time we are outmanned and the other servers have map ques on OUR BL. When we take 35-40 and hit a group of 60 a ranger is an easy target and there is no tucking tail and running. You literally cannot strafe around a blob that fat. You have to double dodge it then you are left there trying to absorb and heal in the blast and with the low armor and low endurance regen you simply cannot get into the water field and reset there is no time to do so so you have to stay out alone in most cases. Eles are dropping fire storm while moving and rangers casting barrage are stuck in one spot. so either you do nothing but run or you get LUCKY and rain arrows. So many skills need reworks and need to be brought back into independant tiers of weapon skills. Why is barrage the ONLY skill where you MUST remain stationary while eles get a similar skill they can cast while moving?

…Eles are stationary while they cast Meteor Shower as well, unless you are talking about a different skill. Barrage is bad skill to cast on a group in most cases anyhow since you can literally insta-kill yourself from retaliation.

Aside from that, I don’t know what else to tell you. I myself play ranger for my guild on CD. My particular subgroup is 2 thieves, 2 rangers, and either a mesmer or a ele depending on who’s on. We make a 30-40 man group, or we GvG at about 25v25, and I can honestly say that I can’t recall the last time the other ranger, myself, or anybody in my damage group even went down, let alone died, even when we were up against 60-80 man blobs lol.

And that’s right now, without the improved ability to escape.

Now, a lot of the credit goes to our other members, because somehow our small subgroup goes largely unnoticed until it’s too late for the groups we run into, but the other side of it is positioning and awareness. A rangers job in a group isn’t blob damage, it’s anti-thief and anti-periphery duty.

All I can really do though is give you my experience on it. You don’t have to believe me or take my word for it, was only ever trying to give advice and help.

Natfrog.4310:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Natfrog.4310:

jcbroe.4329:

Rangers will have the ability, with Quickdraw, to use 2 consecutive Swoops or Sword 2 leap chains, combined at any point with Lightning Reflexes for another leap and a CC counter as well.
Now, I’m not arguing that it’s top tier escape mobility, but if all of that isn’t enough, then the person is in an unwinnable situation or completely out of position to begin with and is very justly getting punished for not playing better.

The CD on Lightning reflexes is what? So I do this and just go hide in a keep until it is back up? Does swoop remove immob or can I trait it to do so in some way? Maybe I’m lucky and avoid the first thief but what about number 2 or 3? Again not bashing skill level but sheer numbers on low teir servers do not have the number of enemies that higher tier servers do. There is a reason Rangers are not part of the comp EVER when concidering top teir server builds. They just do not compete. Not saying rangers are bad but it takes a very talented individual to take a ranger of any spec into a zerg and emerge. Maybe this is why your opinion and the other guys opinion do not match up. I am on SoS server and a lot of the time we are outmanned and the other servers have map ques on OUR BL. When we take 35-40 and hit a group of 60 a ranger is an easy target and there is no tucking tail and running. You literally cannot strafe around a blob that fat. You have to double dodge it then you are left there trying to absorb and heal in the blast and with the low armor and low endurance regen you simply cannot get into the water field and reset there is no time to do so so you have to stay out alone in most cases. Eles are dropping fire storm while moving and rangers casting barrage are stuck in one spot. so either you do nothing but run or you get LUCKY and rain arrows. So many skills need reworks and need to be brought back into independant tiers of weapon skills. Why is barrage the ONLY skill where you MUST remain stationary while eles get a similar skill they can cast while moving?

you Run EB or SoR , Swoops has build in evades so does Sword , if the double swoop does not work you have Sword 2 then into LR to break immobilise by then Swoop is back of cooldown and your able to swoop swoop away again without risk of immobilise.

and of course anyone will melt trying to run through a zerg that big , but you can easly Cut through thin lines of the zerg and quicking get away, though you;d need to kitten the situation first before trying , thats the difference between someone trying to use a Ranger as faceroll vs that a Ranger has learned how to use a ranger, its no Warroir nor guardain with Aegis and stacks of stability to protect us.

ether way this combo has given us a very good way of slipping past lines without being hindered too much to the point it will take a good 8-15 people to pin you down.

So where does my longbow fit into this whole equasion of yours? Swoop is a GS skill if I’m not mistaken and sword 2 is obviously on the sword but yet not one single thing you have mentioned was about the longbow. You can play ranger however you chose I respect that. But I promise you that you cannot and will not run double mele on any top tier server and get bags. You just won’t you melt. It’s that simple. As a ranger you cannot take the hits unless you run full bunker and when you run full bunker chances are you are better off going guard or warrior honestly simply because they offer more.

honestly if you want to face zergs with a Lb it dont’ cut it , it just doesn’t have the Utilties to make good use of zerg fights its been that way since the blobs started.
can’t do much else to change that.

if you using Lb you’ve got two choice run into the tower or get lucky with the two swoops you have and the Signet of stone+ Rampage as one .

it’ll be a bit better for facing zergs after HoT .

jcbroe.4329:

Natfrog.4310:

jcbroe.4329:

Rangers will have the ability, with Quickdraw, to use 2 consecutive Swoops or Sword 2 leap chains, combined at any point with Lightning Reflexes for another leap and a CC counter as well.
Now, I’m not arguing that it’s top tier escape mobility, but if all of that isn’t enough, then the person is in an unwinnable situation or completely out of position to begin with and is very justly getting punished for not playing better.

The CD on Lightning reflexes is what? So I do this and just go hide in a keep until it is back up? Does swoop remove immob or can I trait it to do so in some way? Maybe I’m lucky and avoid the first thief but what about number 2 or 3? Again not bashing skill level but sheer numbers on low teir servers do not have the number of enemies that higher tier servers do. There is a reason Rangers are not part of the comp EVER when concidering top teir server builds. They just do not compete. Not saying rangers are bad but it takes a very talented individual to take a ranger of any spec into a zerg and emerge. Maybe this is why your opinion and the other guys opinion do not match up. I am on SoS server and a lot of the time we are outmanned and the other servers have map ques on OUR BL. When we take 35-40 and hit a group of 60 a ranger is an easy target and there is no tucking tail and running. You literally cannot strafe around a blob that fat. You have to double dodge it then you are left there trying to absorb and heal in the blast and with the low armor and low endurance regen you simply cannot get into the water field and reset there is no time to do so so you have to stay out alone in most cases. Eles are dropping fire storm while moving and rangers casting barrage are stuck in one spot. so either you do nothing but run or you get LUCKY and rain arrows. So many skills need reworks and need to be brought back into independant tiers of weapon skills. Why is barrage the ONLY skill where you MUST remain stationary while eles get a similar skill they can cast while moving?

…Eles are stationary while they cast Meteor Shower as well, unless you are talking about a different skill. Barrage is bad skill to cast on a group in most cases anyhow since you can literally insta-kill yourself from retaliation.

Aside from that, I don’t know what else to tell you. I myself play ranger for my guild on CD. My particular subgroup is 2 thieves, 2 rangers, and either a mesmer or a ele depending on who’s on. We make a 30-40 man group, or we GvG at about 25v25, and I can honestly say that I can’t recall the last time the other ranger, myself, or anybody in my damage group even went down, let alone died, even when we were up against 60-80 man blobs lol.

And that’s right now, without the improved ability to escape.

Now, a lot of the credit goes to our other members, because somehow our small subgroup goes largely unnoticed until it’s too late for the groups we run into, but the other side of it is positioning and awareness. A rangers job in a group isn’t blob damage, it’s anti-thief and anti-periphery duty.

All I can really do though is give you my experience on it. You don’t have to believe me or take my word for it, was only ever trying to give advice and help.

Your comp seems to have 2 thieves why? Why not run 5 rangers? If you didn’t have the stealth from thieves would you be as effective as you are? Maybe you run venom share and single targets melt or the venom share AoE bugs that you exploit for personal gain might come into play. But why are you not running 5 rangers? If rangers are as balanced as every other class you should be able to get away from any danger without the thieves at all. You are just adding to my side of the imbalance that is for rangers.

jcbroe.4329:

Natfrog.4310:

jcbroe.4329:

Rangers will have the ability, with Quickdraw, to use 2 consecutive Swoops or Sword 2 leap chains, combined at any point with Lightning Reflexes for another leap and a CC counter as well.
Now, I’m not arguing that it’s top tier escape mobility, but if all of that isn’t enough, then the person is in an unwinnable situation or completely out of position to begin with and is very justly getting punished for not playing better.

The CD on Lightning reflexes is what? So I do this and just go hide in a keep until it is back up? Does swoop remove immob or can I trait it to do so in some way? Maybe I’m lucky and avoid the first thief but what about number 2 or 3? Again not bashing skill level but sheer numbers on low teir servers do not have the number of enemies that higher tier servers do. There is a reason Rangers are not part of the comp EVER when concidering top teir server builds. They just do not compete. Not saying rangers are bad but it takes a very talented individual to take a ranger of any spec into a zerg and emerge. Maybe this is why your opinion and the other guys opinion do not match up. I am on SoS server and a lot of the time we are outmanned and the other servers have map ques on OUR BL. When we take 35-40 and hit a group of 60 a ranger is an easy target and there is no tucking tail and running. You literally cannot strafe around a blob that fat. You have to double dodge it then you are left there trying to absorb and heal in the blast and with the low armor and low endurance regen you simply cannot get into the water field and reset there is no time to do so so you have to stay out alone in most cases. Eles are dropping fire storm while moving and rangers casting barrage are stuck in one spot. so either you do nothing but run or you get LUCKY and rain arrows. So many skills need reworks and need to be brought back into independant tiers of weapon skills. Why is barrage the ONLY skill where you MUST remain stationary while eles get a similar skill they can cast while moving?

…Eles are stationary while they cast Meteor Shower as well, unless you are talking about a different skill. Barrage is bad skill to cast on a group in most cases anyhow since you can literally insta-kill yourself from retaliation.

Aside from that, I don’t know what else to tell you. I myself play ranger for my guild on CD. My particular subgroup is 2 thieves, 2 rangers, and either a mesmer or a ele depending on who’s on. We make a 30-40 man group, or we GvG at about 25v25, and I can honestly say that I can’t recall the last time the other ranger, myself, or anybody in my damage group even went down, let alone died, even when we were up against 60-80 man blobs lol.

And that’s right now, without the improved ability to escape.

Now, a lot of the credit goes to our other members, because somehow our small subgroup goes largely unnoticed until it’s too late for the groups we run into, but the other side of it is positioning and awareness. A rangers job in a group isn’t blob damage, it’s anti-thief and anti-periphery duty.

All I can really do though is give you my experience on it. You don’t have to believe me or take my word for it, was only ever trying to give advice and help.

I was compairing “Firestorm” the signet skill cast to barrage simply because of the average damage each one throws out. Meteor shower on a full zerk ele hits roughly 4 times harder per hit than barrage can on a full zerk ranger… I hardly see that as balanced when they do roughly the same thing but one is MUCH stronger than the other… again balance issues that NO ONE else sees.

I feel like you’re talking past each other.

There are options for a Ranger to be quite mobile. There are options to be less mobile and have some range. There are options to be less mobile but even more deadly from range.

What is so hard about accepting the right tools for one role are different from the right tools for another and that there is a whole spectrum of options available for the class?

Sebrent.3625:

I feel like you’re talking past each other.

There are options for a Ranger to be quite mobile. There are options to be less mobile and have some range. There are options to be less mobile but even more deadly from range.

What is so hard about accepting the right tools for one role are different from the right tools for another and that there is a whole spectrum of options available for the class?

It is the top tier server ego talking rather than the approach you note. That or WvW zerging is different between tiers. Last time I checked there is only 3 servers in the match up and only one can come in 1st…

The way he is making it sound everyone is playing a specific class or the same one while the Ranger is left playing water or towel boy…

Lol we HATE venom share as a collective. The 2 thieves is for stealth opening on groups. We run 2 5 man groups as our “main” backline and add more as people are online, but the main group is the core players, and the 2 thieves are mostly just there for Refuging the other ranger, myself, and all of our eles and necros, and as far as I know, both of our thieves are running Panic Strike (6/0/2/0/6).

Aside from that opener, I rarely even see the thieves we run again. One of the thieves and I target call, so I’ll see a target he throws up from time to time, but other than that, I’m usually grouped up with our backline with the other ranger coordinating spikes against the enemy backline or thieves. I’m actually primarily on thief duty as specified by the guild leader in order to keep pressure off of our casters, so I tend to let the thief call targets while I focus on what I’m supposed to be doing and swap to other targets or target calling when I can’t.

But to answer your question, we aren’t running 5 rangers simply because it was my job to recruit other rangers and all of the ones I was confident in asking and online at the time were unavailable for it or on different servers and unwilling to switch.

But we would run a full 5 man ranger group with the right players, absolutely.

Natfrog.4310:

Klonko.8341:

anduriell.6280:

Sebrent.3625:

Our only sources of cleanse are in Wilderness Survival, eh? What about…

• Healing Spring
• Signet of Renewal
• Brown Bear
• Evasive Purity

You keep misleading ppl. Seriously i’ll ask you to please stop the theorycarfting. Play with a ranger for real, don’t just say you do.

I wrote about this before in an answer to another post of yours and you keep repeating yourself. I’ve proven several times you are wrong.

• Healing spring is now a trap. HS is very mild healing and you loose your only realiable healing skill.
• SoR entirely depends on your pet to be alive. Not good when your pet like to swim in AoE.
• Brown Bear cast the skill at the target you have now. Not at the spot like the cabagge dog do with the healing. So if you are not in melee Brown Bear is trash.
• Evasive Purity right now only serves for blind and possion with 10 secs CD. with the balance it will cleanse cripple as well so is better. Not good enough when burning, confusion, slow, chilled… Misleading i call that.

Runes or sigils are a no go. Why should i sacrifice dmg output to clean conditions when any other professions have cleanses even in weapons skills?

So please stop spreading this kind of misinformation and please try to be objetive. If you actually play with ranger you know what i say it’s true.

Ranger is already a broken profession and after the balance of the 23th it will become the pariah of gw2.

Personally glass bow ranger doesnt need them as they can pew pew from 1500 and anyone closing the gap should be close to dead once they reach them. If not, you deserve to die. So condi cleanse is only good with mid-close range build and those always pick wilderness survival or used to.

And glass bow can make use of brown bear. As they are good protect me fodder and signet of stone + protect me is 12 sec of invulnerability, enough to kill everything or make them run.

And to remedy to the AI pet mental illness, you can play them in passive mode if you have only supportive pet. Ranger is hard to master because of the tracking of the pet.

And for healing spring, we dont know yet how it will work but atm it can cleanse 6 condition if you stand in it. But pratically it is more like 2-4 condis.

So for pew pew ranger it is enough condi cleanse for a sniper. If you fighting close combat with pew pew ranger, you doing it wrong.

I must ask what low teir servers do you play on where a singled out ranger standing WAY behind the line at 1500 range is not solo’d out and insta gibbed? Positioning is key you say? Takes 3 times longer to sweep back behind the mele train when you are that far behind your frontline and when 50 plus people look at you you melt as a sniper. Popping sig of stone does nothing when you have 12 plus seconds of immob and EVERY other condi. Either you have no clue how broken ranger is or you build a bunker only and havok. Zerg fighting is either run away or pick off one and hope like hell you can hide before they look at you. What other backline has as few mobility skills as a ranger?

I play solo roaming T3 NA if you want the answer… I play zerker LB and im able to actually 1vsX with my set-up… Im just not glass bow! imo glassbow build is garbage. Thats why you feel like ranger sucks. You play a bad build. Most ranger will say the same.

-1st: Ranger has good mobility. Take sword over GS. 2 leaps > 1 leap.
-2nd: A ranger doesnt have its place in a blob fight. He brings next to nothing to the group now. His only utility is maybe sniping the leader.
-3rd: Glassbow Ranger is a global taunt. People like to kill them. Because those has little to no counter play if you are picked by surprise. I hate them myself.
-4th: If your positionning is bad, I cant help. If you asking anet to buff the area where you are lacking, you will never improve

In conclusion, you will be truly at peace with a class if you accept their strenght AND weakness. You need to adapt. I did had this phase of denial saying that ranger was bad. I learned other class and i was always comming back to ranger because its a refreshing playstyle. Simple, yet really complex. And thats what i love from this class.

Many of you dislike the pet. I cant count the number of time they made me win a fight. They surprise me as well as disapoint me. But I know, at the end of the day, they are there to save. So i better work with them than against them. After all they take the condis from me, they get hit by so many Cloak and dagger, they protect me… It might be hard at the beginning, but dont be overwhelm by the difficulties! Ranger is one of the best class in one on one if you know what your doing! Just learn to work with your pet and not against. Go with the flow. Let the nature do her work.

inspirational text mode off

inspirational text mode off
[/quote]

Congrats you just enforced everything that is WRONG with a RANGER. I GW univers RANGER is supposed to use a BOW. If you are saying I MUST use mele weapon to be useful it is infact broken. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Natfrog.4310:

inspirational text mode off

Congrats you just enforced everything that is WRONG with a RANGER. I GW univers RANGER is supposed to use a BOW. If you are saying I MUST use mele weapon to be useful it is infact broken. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Don’t think he said that at all. There are a few classes that are required to keep all weapons they can use in their inventory. It is called use the right tool for the job. What he is saying in short – there are strength and weakness to the class and one must know them and adapt.

Natfrog.4310:

Congrats you just enforced everything that is WRONG with a RANGER. I GW univers RANGER is supposed to use a BOW. If you are saying I MUST use mele weapon to be useful it is infact broken. Thank you for agreeing with me.

That is your opinion and totally false in reality. If that were the case, Ranger would not have the excellent and fitting melee weapons that we do. You are only playing the class to half its potential.

Either ranger players will adapt or they will move on, just as the past has shown. Will ranger be in a good spot in the game? Probably no better than in live. The changes seem unfocused and overly cautious, but I kind of expect further reductions before the chance for improvements.

Even if the ranger community could find common ground I doubt we could get changes as other profession communities have managed. Too much effort has went into longbow and the open in strikes set.

At this point I can only guess the design philosophy of ranger has been reworked again and they have yet to get around to letting anyone know which direction the profession. Is going this cycle.

Klonko.8341:

False, they said that 1500 stack of vulnerability would be a bit too much so they will keep it at 25 stack for 25%.

Ah, yes. I did glaze over that when I read the notes. Shame. Unfortunately, given that condis are damage over time to ramp up to the same damage as direct damage it’s still going to kill things slower than power builds, and that is bad. So, these changes listed are still bad for power builds in PVE. I mean, Hell, even Roy said on the stream they nerfed condis because of the condi cap being removed (and vul now affecting condis). Of course, any sensible person saw the nerf to condis coming …. or everything was going to get stupid high health pools to compensate for it.

I really don’t think we even need to discuss how amazing quickdraw is. you can use it to leave, or you can use it to cast two nukes. it’s crazy good, especially for power builds

@TheFantasticGman:
Have you actually done the math for this or is it just your intuition?

No math yet for the new formulas, but the current formulas do hold true that DOT is much slower at killing than DD. There’s been plenty of threads on that topic, feel free to search.

Oh, and I did look at your spreadsheet, but until we see what they did with the health pools and creature toughness, etc, I’m going to speculate that DD is still going to be stronger in PVE.

Aye, I’m aware of the old math but I’m curious since they also changed many of the condi applicators. For burning and poison, they have gone from applying 1 stack to 2+.

I think people should also look at time to do full damage and damage per cast time. If the cast time is short and it applies a condition that does its full damage over 10s and the fight lasts more than 10s then it is fully useful. If you can frontload those conditions, same thing … we’ll have to wait and see …

That said … my intuition too tells me that there is likely still more balance work that needs to be done to allow conditions to compete with straight zerk in the PvE meta … I look forward to seeing several someones crunch the numbers.

These changes are amazing. I’m surprised so few see it that way… For PvP anyway

Eurantien.4632:

These changes are amazing. I’m surprised so few see it that way… For PvP anyway

same here man. been pulling my hair out trying to convince people, but im quickly realizing there is no hope.

Eurantien.4632:

These changes are amazing. I’m surprised so few see it that way… For PvP anyway

PvP has basically ONE build for all professions. This is a great buff to PvP rangers.

It’s a nerf to the trait system.

It’s an indirect nerf to ranger because other professions got much bigger buffs than we did.

and im saying BRING IT to all the other profs that got buffed. I feel confident we have the tools to compete this time around.

Happy for y’all in PVP… In PVE, on the other hand specifically dungeons/fractals, we will be worse off… I’m pretty certain of that just on the basis of losing so many damage modifiers.. I will be doing LESS damage than before.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Klonko.8341:

False, they said that 1500 stack of vulnerability would be a bit too much so they will keep it at 25 stack for 25%.

Ah, yes. I did glaze over that when I read the notes. Shame. Unfortunately, given that condis are damage over time to ramp up to the same damage as direct damage it’s still going to kill things slower than power builds, and that is bad. So, these changes listed are still bad for power builds in PVE. I mean, Hell, even Roy said on the stream they nerfed condis because of the condi cap being removed. Of course, any sensible person saw the nerf coming …. or everything was going to get stupid high health pools to compensate for it.

Maybe with the new formula and the new 1500 ish stack it will be viable. I mean ranger can put a 25 bleeds stacks and maybe maintain it. With barbed its 33% more dmg.

Quick calcul: full sinister gear with krait rune + 40% condi duration + 25 might stack = 2382 condition dmg
2382 * 25 (sure it might not 25 bleed uptime but close to it) *1.33 (barbed thingy) *0.075 (new coefficient) = 5940 + per sec without the dmg from auto/skills.

That caculation doesnt even imply the 26 base dmg. If it does it pump a massive 6k8.
26(bleed tick)*25*1.33 + (2382 * 0.075 * 25 * 1.33) = 6k8

Add in a torch (bonfire) + sun spirit + fire trap and you could get at least 3-5 stack of fire for
131 (new burning tick) * 25 + (2382*0.155(new burning modifier)*5)= 2500.

So about 9300 per sec if you maintain alone.

Without counting the dmg you can do with AA or other trait boost etc or traps for more fire/bleeds poison etc…

I know im tossing optimistic number around but add a margin of ~15% and you should get the real result haha.

krait runes + condi % duration give 5 bleeds stack for 12 sec which is 10 bleed uptime in one skill, an hawk with 2 bleeds stack for 30 sec on 6 sec cd (proc 5 times in 30 sec multiply by 2 for 10 bleeds stack) you are already at 20 bleeds stack uptime. Add in some situational bleeds from bleed on crit and entangle and you have at least 25 stacks. + random earth sigil/geomancy

I think the most efficient way of playing it would be triple damaging traps with something like this:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgUB5AJ4A9w~
for traits. There is some trade to make as it doesnt provide spotter, and you could take trapper expertise for perma cripple for predator onslaught instead of situational bleed from crit. You could also use quick draw for a quick doube splitblade proc. I think its decent enough

Just so you can be impress by big numbers and my mathematical and ranger knowledge

But yeah its the ramp up factor that will need to be tested…

But once again with geomancy/earth + agony sigil + quick draw you can add more blood to your bloody kittentail. We just need to be creative about it.

Eurantien.4632:

These changes are amazing. I’m surprised so few see it that way… For PvP anyway

Been waiting to hear your feedback Eura…

Are you still planning on running glassbow at this stage, or does something else look of interest?

Sube Dai.8496:

Eurantien.4632:

These changes are amazing. I’m surprised so few see it that way… For PvP anyway

Been waiting to hear your feedback Eura…

Are you still planning on running glassbow at this stage, or does something else look of interest?

Lb/gs is my preferred weapon set so glassbow looks highly appealing. Yet all the changes are finally opening things up they I will have to try. Glassbow will be highly dependent on how good other profs are…

Sube Dai.8496:

Eurantien.4632:

These changes are amazing. I’m surprised so few see it that way… For PvP anyway

Been waiting to hear your feedback Eura…

Are you still planning on running glassbow at this stage, or does something else look of interest?

Lb/gs is my preferred weapon set so glassbow looks highly appealing. Yet all the changes are finally opening things up that I will have to try. Glassbow will be highly dependent on how good other profs are…
Regardless of the build I think this might finally give us a fighting chance in the meta. Not THE meta but we should be competitive from what I have seen. At that point it becomes skill > build… Yay!

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Happy for y’all in PVP… In PVE, on the other hand specifically dungeons/fractals, we will be worse off… I’m pretty certain of that just on the basis of losing so many damage modifiers.. I will be doing LESS damage than before.

I share the same sentiment. As far as dungeons and fractals are concerned, the Ranger has dropped off that list as a sufficient 5th in parties. Even without seeing the rest of the elite specs, I doubt the Druid traitline will bring enough to give us an edge in PvE.

Sebrent.3625:

Our only sources of cleanse are in Wilderness Survival, eh? What about…

• Healing Spring
• Signet of Renewal
• Brown Bear
• Evasive Purity

There are also runes and sigils if you’re truly concerned about it … several options.

So this is the crap I’m talking about with regards to your posts saying things that simply are not true. Wilderness Survival is obviously not our only source of cleanses.

*Healing Spring is now a trap so it would probably change the way Rangers are currently using it.
*SoR is okay.
*BB, when u use his F2, the BB run the target before to clean, worst ranger clean ever.
*EP is okay (longer CD).

Runes and Sigils works for all classes, but (core for now) Ranger is the class with quantitatively less cleans and ways to deal with condi in the game and the only class with his two major clean traits in the same GM slot. Qualitatively speaking it’s not better, SoR and EB kills our pets (both can miss cuz of the radius) and using SOTF, assuming you run a full bar of survival skills (wich is not really good), give you two cleans per skills, half on offensive skills with pretty long CD (20, 36, 48 s). TO becomes the best one.

I like the changes (and i am exited like everybody) and i am not worried that much about the cleans, i’ll find a way since it’s one of the roamer’s priority. But we can still keep lucid about this and leave out the bad faith.

Eurantien.4632:

Sube Dai.8496:

Eurantien.4632:

These changes are amazing. I’m surprised so few see it that way… For PvP anyway

Been waiting to hear your feedback Eura…

Are you still planning on running glassbow at this stage, or does something else look of interest?

Lb/gs is my preferred weapon set so glassbow looks highly appealing. Yet all the changes are finally opening things up that I will have to try. Glassbow will be highly dependent on how good other profs are…
Regardless of the build I think this might finally give us a fighting chance in the meta. Not THE meta but we should be competitive from what I have seen. At that point it becomes skill > build… Yay!

But do beware of the incoming roaming overbuffed mesmer (reflection spamming, god-tier shatter), engi (basically god-tier now), and thief (another overbuffed profession that doesn’t need it.. New acrobatic looks terrifying to power ranger)

Well, we will surely win Necro post patch though :P

I still think they could also have a knee jerk reaction to Quickdraw and suddening it is down to 33% or perhaps 25% would it still seem so good then?

Before these finalized versions I was (for PvE at least) having trouble choicing a second tree, but now anything after marksmanship is kind of blah

Wuselknusel.4082:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Levetty.1279:

Shouts not touched.

Actually, guard did get it’s cast time removed, which is quite nice for shout builds.

Wonderful. So the only build ever utilising Guard! as a way to get swiftness got slightly buffed. if that isn’t something!

You can use Guard in different builds, it have been used fisrt in condi regen builds but you can also make pewpew regen build you know… or perma swiftness pew pew ranger build.

Shouts are better now i would say. You can use both the new NV trait AND the new SOTF trait. Using BM and NM give more sinergy, with Runes of the Trooper, HaO is know a shout (burst heal + one condi removal / Swiftness and regen), Guard (no more cast time) to maintain the said boons, remove a condition every 12 s and grant stealth AND perma protection to your pet possibly with Bark Skin (93 % less damage for the pet above 90 % health) and Oakheart Salve (5 % less damage with regen). You can make a better use of Protect Me. On the top of that, you can also take traited survival skills like LR or Etangle and a traited WH.

0/0/6/6/6 front line support pew pew Ranger.

“If that isn’t something!”

Toxsa.2701:

Eurantien.4632:

Sube Dai.8496:

Eurantien.4632:

These changes are amazing. I’m surprised so few see it that way… For PvP anyway

Been waiting to hear your feedback Eura…

Are you still planning on running glassbow at this stage, or does something else look of interest?

Lb/gs is my preferred weapon set so glassbow looks highly appealing. Yet all the changes are finally opening things up that I will have to try. Glassbow will be highly dependent on how good other profs are…
Regardless of the build I think this might finally give us a fighting chance in the meta. Not THE meta but we should be competitive from what I have seen. At that point it becomes skill > build… Yay!

But do beware of the incoming roaming overbuffed mesmer (reflection spamming, god-tier shatter), engi (basically god-tier now), and thief (another overbuffed profession that doesn’t need it.. New acrobatic looks terrifying to power ranger)

Well, we will surely win Necro post patch though :P

Mesmer = Not sure yet will have to wait and see.

Engineer = We got given the counter traits, I think we will be strongest vs Engineer coming meta.

Thief = No idea, we will have to wait and see. I have good feeling vs thieves but, before I was missing few key traits now I don’t have that problem.

The Vigor change is big hit to allot of classes and ranger can now apply weakness allot so keep that in mind, this is why I think we will be strong vs engineers.

Mesmer …. will have to wait and see. Since I also play Mesmer, I can say that I do personally feel like I’ve received some “more powerful” traits than what I have received for my Ranger. That being said, I feel like my Ranger has closed several gaps in various builds and will also be more powerful.

Basically, I feel I will be able to skew more with my Mesmer builds than was possible before while I can have a more well-rounded Ranger build that has everything I want for a given Ranger build … though could always use more ;-)

Engineer … this is going to be interesting. I think we need to playtest against them to truly see how it will be. I agree that it looks like Ranger has the tools to deal with this though … goes back to that well-roundedness.

Thief … they are often about burst. Wilderness Survival and Nature Magic have excellent traits for combating enemy burst. The additional CC from traits will also help versus Thieves. Sure, a Thief can trait more defensively, but each defensive specialization they take is one less Specialization filled with +%dmg modifiers that they are taking.

Klonko.8341:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Klonko.8341:

False, they said that 1500 stack of vulnerability would be a bit too much so they will keep it at 25 stack for 25%.

Ah, yes. I did glaze over that when I read the notes. Shame. Unfortunately, given that condis are damage over time to ramp up to the same damage as direct damage it’s still going to kill things slower than power builds, and that is bad. So, these changes listed are still bad for power builds in PVE. I mean, Hell, even Roy said on the stream they nerfed condis because of the condi cap being removed. Of course, any sensible person saw the nerf coming …. or everything was going to get stupid high health pools to compensate for it.

Maybe with the new formula and the new 1500 ish stack it will be viable. I mean ranger can put a 25 bleeds stacks and maybe maintain it. With barbed its 33% more dmg.

Quick calcul: full sinister gear with krait rune + 40% condi duration + 25 might stack = 2382 condition dmg
2382 * 25 (sure it might not 25 bleed uptime but close to it) *1.33 (barbed thingy) *0.075 (new coefficient) = 5940 + per sec without the dmg from auto/skills.

That caculation doesnt even imply the 26 base dmg. If it does it pump a massive 6k8.
26(bleed tick)*25*1.33 + (2382 * 0.075 * 25 * 1.33) = 6k8

Add in a torch (bonfire) + sun spirit + fire trap and you could get at least 3-5 stack of fire for
131 (new burning tick) * 25 + (2382*0.155(new burning modifier)*5)= 2500.

So about 9300 per sec if you maintain alone.

Without counting the dmg you can do with AA or other trait boost etc or traps for more fire/bleeds poison etc…

I know im tossing optimistic number around but add a margin of ~15% and you should get the real result haha.

krait runes + condi % duration give 5 bleeds stack for 12 sec which is 10 bleed uptime in one skill, an hawk with 2 bleeds stack for 30 sec on 6 sec cd (proc 5 times in 30 sec multiply by 2 for 10 bleeds stack) you are already at 20 bleeds stack uptime. Add in some situational bleeds from bleed on crit and entangle and you have at least 25 stacks. + random earth sigil/geomancy

I think the most efficient way of playing it would be triple damaging traps with something like this:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgUB5AJ4A9w~
for traits. There is some trade to make as it doesnt provide spotter, and you could take trapper expertise for perma cripple for predator onslaught instead of situational bleed from crit. You could also use quick draw for a quick doube splitblade proc. I think its decent enough

Just so you can be impress by big numbers and my mathematical and ranger knowledge

But yeah its the ramp up factor that will need to be tested…

Bump for the pve complain… I dont know if it could be “meta”. Sure it is selfish but it can pretty much easily solo any dungeon with bosses.