Guild Wars 2

o god, watching those wyvern videos… My brain added the Benny Hill music automatically.

Thanks firelysm for the tests, lets hope someone from Anet sees this and does something about it.

Firelysm.4967:

Archon.6480

Yo mate, this topic is not how to use pets efficiently, this topic is how efficient pets are on their own, and how accurate they are.

That’s the same like making example how poorly clones are placed of mesmer, and you would complain how stupid some mesmer player is because they don’t know how to shatter.

Your arguments make sense, but not for this topic. Ranger pet is “30%” of rangers damage, but what we did just prove is that this is far from reality.

If you mean to troll, you have more appropriate forums for that. Ty.

Me? A troll? I post all the time on the Ranger forum, and I don’t troll. Look at my history. I simply disagree with the notion that this should be surprising. I see the pet as “extra” damage or utility, that we have to work for. It is not free. I never said the pet is “30%” of a ranger’s dps. Who said that? I don’t think that’s true at all.

I just don’t understand the shock and outrage that the pet can’t do much on its own. I mean, it really has been this way for 3 years. I am not trolling. I wish someone would back me up on this. We all know the pet has been like this since launch, right?

We have to work with what we are given. I don’t like it, its just how it is. If we want the pet to hit, we have to create situations where it can hit. Whether that means CCing our opponents or using skill to speed the pets up, or using pet swap when we are getting beat into the ground by something.

I understand this thread is about pet “efficiency,” but how can that be separated from the actual use of the pet and still be relevant in any way? If you say to a developer. “Hey morons! You screwed up, the pet can’t hit anything on it’s own, because the AI sux.” Won’t they just reply, “Yes, and? You’re not supposed to use it like that.” Is that not the end of the story?

If a developer comes on here and says, "Yeah, this is a problem and we are going to look into it. I’ll gladly change my position that this is not working as intended. Why do I have to be a troll because I think this is how it is supposed to work? I didn’t say it was a strong mechanic. I actually think it is a little lack-luster.

I might have been too hard on the OP. For those of us that have been playing Ranger for the last three years, this is obvious. Right? Is any veteran Ranger really surprised by this? If they wanted to change this, they could just make the pets move faster.

If the target golem didn’t double back the wyverns would never have landed a single hit.

lmao what’s worse? the fact that an incompetent moron was allowed to create these abominations or that Anet didn’t give enough kittens to make sure this stuff worked before dropkicking it out the door?

Archon.6480:

Firelysm.4967:

Archon.6480

Yo mate, this topic is not how to use pets efficiently, this topic is how efficient pets are on their own, and how accurate they are.

That’s the same like making example how poorly clones are placed of mesmer, and you would complain how stupid some mesmer player is because they don’t know how to shatter.

Your arguments make sense, but not for this topic. Ranger pet is “30%” of rangers damage, but what we did just prove is that this is far from reality.

If you mean to troll, you have more appropriate forums for that. Ty.

Me? A troll? I post all the time on the Ranger forum, and I don’t troll. Look at my history. I simply disagree with the notion that this should be surprising. I see the pet as “extra” damage or utility, that we have to work for. It is not free. I never said the pet is “30%” of a ranger’s dps. Who said that? I don’t think that’s true at all.

I just don’t understand the shock and outrage that the pet can’t do much on its own. I mean, it really has been this way for 3 years. I am not trolling. I wish someone would back me up on this. We all know the pet has been like this since launch, right?

We have to work with what we are given. I don’t like it, its just how it is. If we want the pet to hit, we have to create situations where it can hit. Whether that means CCing our opponents or using skill to speed the pets up, or using pet swap when we are getting beat into the ground by something.

I understand this thread is about pet “efficiency,” but how can that be separated from the actual use of the pet and still be relevant in any way? If you say to a developer. “Hey morons! You screwed up, the pet can’t hit anything on it’s own, because the AI sux.” Won’t they just reply, “Yes, and? You’re not supposed to use it like that.” Is that not the end of the story?

If a developer comes on here and says, "Yeah, this is a problem and we are going to look into it. I’ll gladly change my position that this is not working as intended. Why do I have to be a troll because I think this is how it is supposed to work? I didn’t say it was a strong mechanic. I actually think it is a little lack-luster.

I might have been too hard on the OP. For those of us that have been playing Ranger for the last three years, this is obvious. Right? Is any veteran Ranger really surprised by this? If they wanted to change this, they could just make the pets move faster.

That’s completely wrong way of thinking. And it’s SHAME that you think that way.
If pet is in range, and if target simply WALKS away, there is no excuse for pet to not hit the target with auto attack, i’m sorry, if you think this is correct way, you contradict yourself on every line of what you’ve wrote.

“you cant have extra if there is nothing there”

3 years the same way? Well congretz, you just discovered the problem, it has been 3 years before some one brought it up, and don’t tell me 85% of misses without using dodge is intended.

I’m veteran and i have a lot of knowledge about my class, but i’m sorry i just don’t agree with you on 90% of the stuff you just said. I did know pets were weak, but i’ve expected changes, FOR LONG time now. And now that HoT is here, and there is room for changes, i did bring this up. Most of people don’t know that pets are in this bad position.That’s why there is no changes and people are “happily-disappointed”.

And if you think pets are just “extra”, then you probably mean the same as mesmer, if they are there auto attacking you dont care, unless u shatter them and you miss or it buggs out. Comparing pet with mesmer is so wrong on so many levels, but that’s exactly what you’ve said, i just made and example of your thinking.

And yes, i still count you as a troll, because you instead of looking the data, and saying omg, how could i keep up all this years with such horrible stats, you say to yourself, “ok, move on i’ll just keep using what i have”.. well bravo what else i can say. Because of people like you we never see changes that should be done years ago.

Why are you on forum reading this, if you are so happy with your pets, nothing personal.

Holland.9351:

I think pets should have been all about utility from the start, not about damage and it should have never reduced Ranger’s personal damage output, except maybe through a Beastmastery GM trait to make it a choice.

Like how Scrapper has a drone that goes around and removes conditions. Pretty “lame”, but fun and useful. Imagine pets going around and healing allies or giving out boons or taunting enemies. Applying cripple, daze, stun, poison, etc in an area around them, depending on which pet you have. All utility. Not much about damage or missing their target and running around like headless chickens.

I must say this is something I really agree on and want for all minions. Sorry if this is off topic.
For example, Phantasms that only offer utility for mesmers, instead of having a % of their damage. Phantasm that only applies cripple, reflects, cc, vuln, weakness. Something to augment a play style. Not to take up for dps purpose alone, and return all potential dps back to the mesmer.

Likewise for pets, no ‘30% of ranger’s dps’ but more about everything else. Most pets in this hypothesis would share same abilities of course since there’s only so much variety of utilities/cc that can be spread around the pets, which would make taming certain pets not so crucial to their specific skills and pretty much just as another pet skin.

This way there won’t be DPS contest between pets to determine which is to be used(like bringing anything other than feline to a dungeon won’t get you kicked), but rather a healthy diverse utility pet that we can bring to what ever content and not think about how it’s performing with it’s DPS. Just like Scrapper’s gyros.
Give them more available access to taunt for the lack of DPS to create agro in PvE content.
I know this still doesn’t address the moving target issues we have, but at least even in that scenario, loss of dps would cede to be an issue.

This would solve so many issues like that other thread we’re being hotheads about – smokescale’s F2.

foste.3098:

Actually the bonus condition damage pets got from the patch is bugged and only effects the number shown in the tooltips not the actual skills.

For example the lynx rending pounce and maul tooltips state that 4 stacks of bleeds are applied for 10 sec doing 5.200 damage (520 dmg per tick), but they actually do 3.280 damage (so 328 dmg per tick).

Similar thing with the hawk can’t remember the exact numbers since i am not ingame but it should deal 225 dmg per tick, the actual number is ~130 dmg per tick.

This is a big issue that has gone unfixed for 4(?) months.

I don’t think you’re right. Sure, the damage ticks say 328, but 2x lynx F2 takes 90% off a light target golem’s health (14k, 2k toughness), which is in line with the tooltip.

A bump and massive thanks to the OP for the work done for this.

thank you OP! Was very informative, and I hope Irenio sees this too

Have you tried cc’ing the Gollum

Keep Bumping this until they give us an answer and/or fix it

+1

edit: also, try using a single necro minion or guardian weapon on the moving target you will cry.

For 50 bucks, you would think the coding for pets would be improved. Kinda minimal effort

Take a look at the new mob AI, surely some of that can be used for pets. They have said they are tied (which I feel is a pathetic excuse anyway), so why not use the new stuff?

Archon.6480:

I might have been too hard on the OP. For those of us that have been playing Ranger for the last three years, this is obvious. Right? Is any veteran Ranger really surprised by this? If they wanted to change this, they could just make the pets move faster.

That’s the thing…they already did change pets, in a negative direction. They do NOT want pets hitting more reliably then they do, or the PvP crowd would burn the forums down. Hence, my initial post about nerfing pet damage and leash range.

So, while I won’t necessarily agree that pets are in a good place because they can still do damage if you CC, I will agree that they are not getting changed.

Look…someone created the Wyvern and thought it was going to be great. THAT should tell all of us something.

Maybe the OP should post these results in the “Druid Changes” thread and request they be fixed. I mean, pets are still part of the Druid.
.
.
.
(I’m kidding by the way. Seriously needs to be fixed or seriously downplayed as a mechanic though.)

I’m going to keep bumping this thread. pets need fixed.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Archon.6480:

I might have been too hard on the OP. For those of us that have been playing Ranger for the last three years, this is obvious. Right? Is any veteran Ranger really surprised by this? If they wanted to change this, they could just make the pets move faster.

They do NOT want pets hitting more reliably then they do, or the PvP crowd would burn the forums down.

Unfortunately this is probably true. Seems Anet listens to the PVP forum as everything that ends up there results in a swift nerf.

E-SPORTS!!!

Anet clearly knows this information already and has for years. the fact that they haven’t fixed pets and are STILL releasing new broken pets shows they don’t give a single kitten.

ZombieLeach.5862:

(I’m kidding by the way. Seriously needs to be fixed or seriously downplayed as a mechanic though.)

Well, considering how things works around these parts, that would most likely mean:

• Ranger pets gets their damage nerfed by 50%
• Ranger damage buffed by 3%

Also, there are lots of pve rangers running around with the pet they think look nice, and couldn’t care less about their efficiency. Many never changes pet, because they are roleplaying.

Given pets rarely if ever land an AA I’d like to see their damage reduced and have our coefficients buffed effectively making pets a utility slot (F2).

I wonder if anyone could make a video of this test to put on the bug forum? I would do it myself, but cannot access the game for another month.

There is a small ledge near the Light Golem in HoTM at Elsinarr Battlements (In the picture) and it would be perfect for displaying how the Bristleback cannot hit targets.

Should be able to jump up on it, swap to the Bristleback and then sic it onto the Light Golem.

Anyway, it would display the bug nicely. Thanks in advance if anyone does this.

I cannot imagine from a whole team of devs not at least one of them being fully aware of all of this though.
Either they lack the knowledge, lack time to do it right or simply do not care.

OGDeadHead.8326:

I cannot imagine from a whole team of devs not at least one of them being fully aware of all of this though.
Either they lack the knowledge, lack time to do it right or simply do not care.

They don’t lack the knowledge. They don’t lack the time. Any decent programmer could fix all pet issues in a month of work. So they are not willing to spend $10k on fixing the issues, yet will drop $400k on prize money for an eSports tourney, which means they do not care.

Perhaps if we start putting videos like this, short ones displaying all the terrible issues, up on other sites and in the main forum, then it may create enough of a stir and embarrass them (and it is embarrassing) enough to get some attention and maybe even start to be worked on.

Pets need;

• +20% base run speed
• 250 range melee attacks
• 100% more projectile speed
• 0.5s AI checks, not 1s
• Halved cast time of all channels

Done. Now they are 500% better. Rangers everywhere rejoice.

Sadly this remind me of old WoW Hunters, their pets were too completely broken and it took almost 2-3 xpansions and many forum posts to finally fix them.

I feel like the Ranger/Hunter class is this whipping-boy in every MMO game.

OGDeadHead.8326:

ZombieLeach.5862:

(I’m kidding by the way. Seriously needs to be fixed or seriously downplayed as a mechanic though.)

Well, considering how things works around these parts, that would most likely mean:

• Ranger pets gets their damage nerfed by 50%
• Ranger damage buffed by 3%

Also, there are lots of pve rangers running around with the pet they think look nice, and couldn’t care less about their efficiency. Many never changes pet, because they are roleplaying.

Why would that be wrong, IF RP was the reason? Though I am sure many RPers don’t do this to “validate” RP; one needs not stick to one pet as a roleplayer. If they like their pets regardless efficiency, it’s none of your business, quite frankly-this thread only concerns players that care about numbers, which is likely not that many of them. In short, that shot against RPers was uncalled for and irrelevant towards this particular discussion.

Star Ace.5207:

OGDeadHead.8326:

ZombieLeach.5862:

(I’m kidding by the way. Seriously needs to be fixed or seriously downplayed as a mechanic though.)

Well, considering how things works around these parts, that would most likely mean:

• Ranger pets gets their damage nerfed by 50%
• Ranger damage buffed by 3%

Also, there are lots of pve rangers running around with the pet they think look nice, and couldn’t care less about their efficiency. Many never changes pet, because they are roleplaying.

Why would that be wrong, IF RP was the reason? Though I am sure many RPers don’t do this to “validate” RP; one needs not stick to one pet as a roleplayer. If they like their pets regardless efficiency, it’s none of your business, quite frankly-this thread only concerns players that care about numbers, which is likely not that many of them. In short, that shot against RPers was uncalled for and irrelevant towards this particular discussion.

He never took a “shot” at RPers.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Star Ace.5207:

OGDeadHead.8326:

ZombieLeach.5862:

(I’m kidding by the way. Seriously needs to be fixed or seriously downplayed as a mechanic though.)

Well, considering how things works around these parts, that would most likely mean:

• Ranger pets gets their damage nerfed by 50%
• Ranger damage buffed by 3%

Also, there are lots of pve rangers running around with the pet they think look nice, and couldn’t care less about their efficiency. Many never changes pet, because they are roleplaying.

Why would that be wrong, IF RP was the reason? Though I am sure many RPers don’t do this to “validate” RP; one needs not stick to one pet as a roleplayer. If they like their pets regardless efficiency, it’s none of your business, quite frankly-this thread only concerns players that care about numbers, which is likely not that many of them. In short, that shot against RPers was uncalled for and irrelevant towards this particular discussion.

He never took a “shot” at RPers.

The “many never change pets” comment is an insult to the roleplayer’s intelligence-not to mention it shouldn’t matter to him or anyone who cares about efficicency what a roleplayer chooses to do, making the comment irrelevant to the discussion.

Star Ace.5207:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Star Ace.5207:

OGDeadHead.8326:

ZombieLeach.5862:

(I’m kidding by the way. Seriously needs to be fixed or seriously downplayed as a mechanic though.)

Well, considering how things works around these parts, that would most likely mean:

• Ranger pets gets their damage nerfed by 50%
• Ranger damage buffed by 3%

Also, there are lots of pve rangers running around with the pet they think look nice, and couldn’t care less about their efficiency. Many never changes pet, because they are roleplaying.

Why would that be wrong, IF RP was the reason? Though I am sure many RPers don’t do this to “validate” RP; one needs not stick to one pet as a roleplayer. If they like their pets regardless efficiency, it’s none of your business, quite frankly-this thread only concerns players that care about numbers, which is likely not that many of them. In short, that shot against RPers was uncalled for and irrelevant towards this particular discussion.

He never took a “shot” at RPers.

The “many never change pets” comment is an insult to the roleplayer’s intelligence-not to mention it shouldn’t matter to him or anyone who cares about efficicency what a roleplayer chooses to do, making the comment irrelevant to the discussion.

It’s not an insult, its an observation. And an accurate one at that. If you take it as an insult, its because you yourself personally do this and you think it is wrong yourself. Not that it is, I mean in PvE I camp Jaguar and Jungle Stalker because they look cool, deal mad damage and have good F2 skills. Not ashamed to say it, I don’t find that comment insulting.

It wasn’t an insult, please stop being overly sensitive.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Star Ace.5207:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Star Ace.5207:

OGDeadHead.8326:

ZombieLeach.5862:

(I’m kidding by the way. Seriously needs to be fixed or seriously downplayed as a mechanic though.)

Well, considering how things works around these parts, that would most likely mean:

• Ranger pets gets their damage nerfed by 50%
• Ranger damage buffed by 3%

Also, there are lots of pve rangers running around with the pet they think look nice, and couldn’t care less about their efficiency. Many never changes pet, because they are roleplaying.

Why would that be wrong, IF RP was the reason? Though I am sure many RPers don’t do this to “validate” RP; one needs not stick to one pet as a roleplayer. If they like their pets regardless efficiency, it’s none of your business, quite frankly-this thread only concerns players that care about numbers, which is likely not that many of them. In short, that shot against RPers was uncalled for and irrelevant towards this particular discussion.

He never took a “shot” at RPers.

The “many never change pets” comment is an insult to the roleplayer’s intelligence-not to mention it shouldn’t matter to him or anyone who cares about efficicency what a roleplayer chooses to do, making the comment irrelevant to the discussion.

It’s not an insult, its an observation. And an accurate one at that. If you take it as an insult, its because you yourself personally do this and you think it is wrong yourself. Not that it is, I mean in PvE I camp Jaguar and Jungle Stalker because they look cool, deal mad damage and have good F2 skills. Not ashamed to say it, I don’t find that comment insulting.

It wasn’t an insult, please stop being overly sensitive.

You telling me I am being overly sensitive is an insult as well.

There’s nothing “wrong” with taking this or that pet, especially from a RP stance. Discuss efficiency when it matters. RP has no bearing on this issue, nor should it be mentioned. It’s not a factual “observation” by any means.

The point stands, and let’s just agree to disagree.

Star Ace.5207:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Star Ace.5207:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Star Ace.5207:

OGDeadHead.8326:

ZombieLeach.5862:

(I’m kidding by the way. Seriously needs to be fixed or seriously downplayed as a mechanic though.)

Well, considering how things works around these parts, that would most likely mean:

• Ranger pets gets their damage nerfed by 50%
• Ranger damage buffed by 3%

Also, there are lots of pve rangers running around with the pet they think look nice, and couldn’t care less about their efficiency. Many never changes pet, because they are roleplaying.

Why would that be wrong, IF RP was the reason? Though I am sure many RPers don’t do this to “validate” RP; one needs not stick to one pet as a roleplayer. If they like their pets regardless efficiency, it’s none of your business, quite frankly-this thread only concerns players that care about numbers, which is likely not that many of them. In short, that shot against RPers was uncalled for and irrelevant towards this particular discussion.

He never took a “shot” at RPers.

The “many never change pets” comment is an insult to the roleplayer’s intelligence-not to mention it shouldn’t matter to him or anyone who cares about efficicency what a roleplayer chooses to do, making the comment irrelevant to the discussion.

It’s not an insult, its an observation. And an accurate one at that. If you take it as an insult, its because you yourself personally do this and you think it is wrong yourself. Not that it is, I mean in PvE I camp Jaguar and Jungle Stalker because they look cool, deal mad damage and have good F2 skills. Not ashamed to say it, I don’t find that comment insulting.

It wasn’t an insult, please stop being overly sensitive.

You telling me I am being overly sensitive is an insult as well.

There’s nothing “wrong” with taking this or that pet, especially from a RP stance. Discuss efficiency when it matters. RP has no bearing on this issue, nor should it be mentioned. It’s not a factual “observation” by any means.

The point stands, and let’s just agree to disagree.

No, that is not an insult either. An insult is to speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse. Asking someone to stop being overly sensitive when they are creating drama, in their own mind, where none exists, is neither disrespectful nor abusive. Only someone that is being overly sensitive would think that it was.

My point is that he was not being insulting either. Just because you feel that it was, doesn’t mean it is, its just your incorrect interpretation of what he said.

It is a factual observation, shall we make a poll to see how many Rangers notice other Rangers that always use the same pets? Want to make a wager that the Brown Bear is the most popular pet? Why?

You are correct though, from an RP stance, there is nothing wrong with taking whatever pet you like. Let’s be honest, it really does not matter what pet you use for open world if you are RPing because mobs die before the pet even gets there half the time. Where it does matter, is if someone decides to do group content, then they should at least attempt to be as efficient as they can, for the sake of the other members of the group.

Where this runs into issue is RPing Rangers that are using a Brown Bear on aggressive and camping LB go into group content, never say a word and are generally just bad. Hence this game’s massive Ranger hate.

Archon.6480:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I didn’t miss your point. Your point is just moot. What can the Ranger do to make the pet hit a moving target?

Please explain how better use of the pet will make it hit moving targets more reliably. Better yet, post a video.

I really think we are in agreement. I also believe that having a pet is not a good justification for the damage reduction we receive, because the pet does not land enough hits in combat to account for our damage reduction. This is very true when fighting high tier players that move really fast, cleanse soft and hard cc nearly instantly, and never stop moving.

Here is the video to describe what I mean: Pets Need Our Help

3 button presses and the Miley kills the moving target in under10s. I could have had the pet kill it faster using utilities and starting with pet swap and BM. I used clerics amulet to lower my personal damage.

The OP posted that it takes the Lynx about 26.9s to kill a moving target. That argument is such an extreme exaggeration that we will get ignored. We need to make better arguments if we want anyone to listen.

Do other classes have to permanently CC to hit their targets? Do other classes lose a huge chunk of theis DPS by not having their targets slowed? Pets should be able to reliably hit moving targets. Period.

kzar.3079:

Archon.6480:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I didn’t miss your point. Your point is just moot. What can the Ranger do to make the pet hit a moving target?

Please explain how better use of the pet will make it hit moving targets more reliably. Better yet, post a video.

I really think we are in agreement. I also believe that having a pet is not a good justification for the damage reduction we receive, because the pet does not land enough hits in combat to account for our damage reduction. This is very true when fighting high tier players that move really fast, cleanse soft and hard cc nearly instantly, and never stop moving.

Here is the video to describe what I mean: Pets Need Our Help

3 button presses and the Miley kills the moving target in under10s. I could have had the pet kill it faster using utilities and starting with pet swap and BM. I used clerics amulet to lower my personal damage.

The OP posted that it takes the Lynx about 26.9s to kill a moving target. That argument is such an extreme exaggeration that we will get ignored. We need to make better arguments if we want anyone to listen.

Do other classes have to permanently CC to hit their targets? Do other classes lose a huge chunk of theis DPS by not having their targets slowed? Pets should be able to reliably hit moving targets. Period.

Especially since all movement skills ignore movement impeding conditions anyway and just about every class has a trait that reduces or negates them completely.

kzar.3079:

Do other classes have to permanently CC to hit their targets? Do other classes lose a huge chunk of theis DPS by not having their targets slowed? Pets should be able to reliably hit moving targets. Period.

Ever played a full melee class/build? Kiting doesn’t work only against pets. Some attacks are hard to land on moving targets, so yes, sometimes other classes have to use cc to land their stuff too. And other classes have to attack actively to deal damage. If ranger’s pets were able to constantly hit moving targets, it would be kind of passive dmg. And if they hit, they can hit quite hard (at least some of them). Strong passive dmg without the need to think about it, is not a good idea imo.

This does not mean, there is no need for improvements. Many pets are completely useless and broken and it is not just because of bad AI. Other pets – even if they need some improvements too, like more control or better protection against aoe/cleave – can be very useful, if used right. Yes, they need help of the ranger to be useful – and that’s how it should be. Fix problems – and there are plenty – but don’t make pets “autopilot”.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I wonder if anyone could make a video of this test to put on the bug forum? I would do it myself, but cannot access the game for another month.

There is a small ledge near the Light Golem in HoTM at Elsinarr Battlements (In the picture) and it would be perfect for displaying how the Bristleback cannot hit targets.

Should be able to jump up on it, swap to the Bristleback and then sic it onto the Light Golem.

Anyway, it would display the bug nicely. Thanks in advance if anyone does this.

Can do that today after WvW raid and GvG.
Will drop it in new thread and link it to thise one.

Cheers.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

kzar.3079:

Do other classes have to permanently CC to hit their targets? Do other classes lose a huge chunk of theis DPS by not having their targets slowed? Pets should be able to reliably hit moving targets. Period.

Ever played a full melee class/build? Kiting doesn’t work only against pets. Some attacks are hard to land on moving targets, so yes, sometimes other classes have to use cc to land their stuff too. And other classes have to attack actively to deal damage. If ranger’s pets were able to constantly hit moving targets, it would be kind of passive dmg. And if they hit, they can hit quite hard (at least some of them). Strong passive dmg without the need to think about it, is not a good idea imo.

This does not mean, there is no need for improvements. Many pets are completely useless and broken and it is not just because of bad AI. Other pets – even if they need some improvements too, like more control or better protection against aoe/cleave – can be very useful, if used right. Yes, they need help of the ranger to be useful – and that’s how it should be. Fix problems – and there are plenty – but don’t make pets “autopilot”.

Yeah but here we talk about simple misses that did not include dodging, a simple walk away, does that look ok to community? What good does pet do if it misses 95% of hits on target that DOESN’T even try to avoid attacks:)?

The way that jaguar hits, every pet should do it. Accuracy. Accuracy my friends, it’s not about damage, or dps in general. It’s about if pet calculates perfect hit, they should land it, not try blindly on the edge. Attacks should be in range, non-avoidable damage if pet did calculate available distance to hit target. player should either dodge or block, but not for sure use auto attack and miss it, while enemy simply walks away.

Thank you Firelysm for your good work. (+1)
I tried it by myself today and was really fast annoyed by the results.
Regarding the pets with ranged attacks it seemed that the carrion devourer aimed much better than the jungle spider but… due to the devourers “tunneling” there was no difference in the dps.

You can’t constantly block or dodge autoattacks and those can hurt. Again, if you are fast enough, you can avoid melee attacks from players too. Especially if those attacks root the player. Yes the jaguar is a good pet, even if it can get kited. Many other pets are bad, true. I wrote already, improvements are needed. But constantly hitting a target for 2-3k autoattacks or even more without the ranger doing anything would be not ok. And i don’t want pet’s dmg nerfed.

This should be stickied every ranger player should know this.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Take a look at the new mob AI, surely some of that can be used for pets. They have said they are tied (which I feel is a pathetic excuse anyway), so why not use the new stuff?

It’s not even an issue of AI.

Pet’s path fine as is (for the most part). Better choice on when to use their other attacks could be implemented though I, and most of the rest of us, would probably rather just have full manual control of those.

The real issue is the activation times and skill range on pet attacks.

Compare cats to birds.

Birds land nearly every auto attack because the range is 300 units. They simply slide forward to hit. Cats on the other hand, have a hard time hitting an erratically moving target because they only have a 130 range attack forcing them to swipe at thin air more often than not.

The Wyvern is just the most blatant example of the issue. 2 seconds to cast a 130 range skill? Really??? If they didn’t have Wing Buffet and great F2’s they would be the absolute worst pets in our roster.

The problem would go away entirely if they simply made pet skills use an appropriate range as shown in the Moa’d Pet video.

Anet seems to be against this because it would look terrible to have pets sliding which is hilarious given that pvp is already a clusterkitten of skill effects, especially with DH traps being the new FotM.

Apparently a tiger sliding across the ground for a few feet is where they draw the line in the sand.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I wrote already, improvements are needed. But constantly hitting a target for 2-3k autoattacks or even more without the ranger doing anything would be not ok. And i don’t want pet’s dmg nerfed.

Only birds hit that hard and they already hit reliably. It’s nearly every other melee pet, aside form hounds, that is the problem.

There’s a reason no one brought cats into pvp the second they nerfed the Jaguar.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Look…someone created the Wyvern and thought it was going to be great. THAT should tell all of us something.

Don’t muddy the issue.

The concept of having a wyvern as a pet is awesome. It’s a great idea, love it. Pet classes are awesome. It’s why most of us are rangers.

The implementation however, as pointed out, leaves a lot to be desired.

Frankly, it sucks. Now rangers certainly can’t become a brain dead “let the pet AI carry me” class, but the current state isn’t exactly healthy either.

Pet AI is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. Pet preferences and what you think is a good or a bad idea in that regard is irrelevant.

CETheLucid.3964:

The concept of having a wyvern as a pet is awesome. It’s a great idea, love it. Pet classes are awesome. It’s why most of us are rangers.

Pretty sure they meant the Wyvern as in it’s skill set. Not the idea of having a Wyvern pet.

As in, someone did a quick port of the enemy mob Wyvern, tested it in combat to make sure it converted correctly, and thought “ya, that looks good” completely ignoring the horrible auto attack.

Substance E.4852:

CETheLucid.3964:

The concept of having a wyvern as a pet is awesome. It’s a great idea, love it. Pet classes are awesome. It’s why most of us are rangers.

Pretty sure they meant the Wyvern as in it’s skill set. Not the idea of having a Wyvern pet.

As in, someone did a quick port of the enemy mob Wyvern, tested it in combat to make sure it converted correctly, and thought “ya, that looks good” completely ignoring the horrible auto attack.

Maybe. That’d be more reasonable.

Substance E.4852:

Only birds hit that hard and they already hit reliably. It’s nearly every other melee pet, aside form hounds, that is the problem.

There’s a reason no one brought cats into pvp the second they nerfed the Jaguar.

I’m currently running with 2 cats (jaguar and tiger) after using birds most of the time and actually they aren’t that bad. Bird’s F2 are easier to land but there is not very much difference when it comes to hitting with autoattacks, because even if cats have a harder time at connecting with their attacks, they waste less time with “flying circles”.

some things i have noticed

bristleback:
- even if you dont use the F2 at all, it still deals substantially more DPS than the other ranged pets (spiders/devourers). i was averaging 25 second kills with bristleback (without f2) and 37ish with spiders (without f2, 35ish with f2)
- despite what its stats are listed as, it seems to have the same vitality and toughness as a bear (50k hp lol). basically, it tanks just as well as bears but deals twice the dps.

Wyverns:
- are still bad even against stationary targets. was averaging 45 second kills, compared to drakes (which supply better AOE, and have better durability) which were averaging 38ish.
- electric wyvern F2 seems broken. even against stationary targets it only inflicts minimal damage.
- fire wyvern F2 is decent, but needs to be cast on the target instead of on the wyvern (we already know this, though)

right now there seems to be no reason to use wyverns over drakes unless you really need the fields. wyvern passive damage is just really low which is further compounded by long cast times

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Substance E.4852:

Only birds hit that hard and they already hit reliably. It’s nearly every other melee pet, aside form hounds, that is the problem.

There’s a reason no one brought cats into pvp the second they nerfed the Jaguar.

I’m currently running with 2 cats (jaguar and tiger) after using birds most of the time and actually they aren’t that bad. Bird’s F2 are easier to land but there is not very much difference when it comes to hitting with autoattacks, because even if cats have a harder time at connecting with their attacks, they waste less time with “flying circles”.

Ya, trying again with the golem and it seems that cats hit a lot more reliably than I remember. They still seem to miss a lot of their bite and maul attacks though. I think what makes them get away with the 130 range is the fact that their auto is so fast.

Substance E.4852:

…Compare cats to birds.

Birds land nearly every auto attack because the range is 300 units. They simply slide forward to hit. Cats on the other hand, have a hard time hitting an erratically moving target because they only have a 130 range attack forcing them to swipe at thin air more often than not….

…Only birds hit that hard and they already hit reliably. It’s nearly every other melee pet, aside form hounds, that is the problem.

There’s a reason no one brought cats into pvp the second they nerfed the Jaguar.

Did you even watch those videos Firelysm put up? I can tell you, I aint bringing birds anymore, except Hawk for GFTE/WS. They are just as bad.

Other vids, I did not make;
Wolf hitting air -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBZtYUa-pLg
Hawk hitting air -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7DWcU3ULtw0

Edit: Ah, I see you did see that… Either way, they should all be able to connect like that, at least.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Did record Bristleback – spike barrage 100% miss.
Uploading it now, will be up in the morning:)
EDIT: done. check first page.

Firelysm.4967:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Did record Bristleback – spike barrage 100% miss.
Uploading it now, will be up in the morning:)
EDIT: done. check first page.

Awesome work! Thanks for that! I’ll check out the video now.

Irenio? See this?

Thanks, Firelysm! Though this is a bit depressing, I hope our pet issues are more obvious now thanks to your efforts.

Firelysm.4967:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Did record Bristleback – spike barrage 100% miss.
Uploading it now, will be up in the morning:)
EDIT: done. check first page.

Maybe that’s why the F2 was switched, so you have the choice of not using it

Holand.9351

I love the spike barrage, it has way more use then previous skill.
I’ll give anet time to fix this issue, because AA works.
And since this is not ground projectile, it’s clearly a bug ^^

The thing i hate about birds and reason why i dont use them is they ALWAYS have to cast that swiftness buff first instead of attacking which is very annoying.