Guild Wars 2

Fjandi.2516:

Q.Q

When you quote something, do it logically so I know what your talking about, it looks like you quoted some things and QQed. Does not make sense.

Fjandi.2516:

So this daecollo guy keeps opening qq threads about random things. You look like a fool.

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability.

Invulnerability? You don’t even know this class.

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

Lol.

Daecollo.9578:

Looks like I need to teach you math.

Pls don’t talk about math epsilon. You’re not worthy.

LOL

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

you say ‘yours’ as if i dont have a warrior? or maybe i read it wrong

ranger GS does piddly damage compared to warr GS, its a defensive weapon, a better comparison would be ranger GS vs warr mace+shield (oh look; two blocks, stun, daze, stun and weakness)
… and its at the end of the chain

-more than that, warr is heavy armour; thats free defense-

oh right… yeh… gotta love those ranger cleanses, ‘hey pet; why are you limping? oh… that burn i shoved down your throat killed you?’… damage kitten yourself (the only two reliable cleanses rangers have imo is healing spring – which is a heal… so… eh – and evasive purity – which only cleanses two afflictions… one of which you could get off of you in the same amount of time it takes to dodge)

… oh and bear… but that relies on the bear being alive and responsive (and bears suck)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing – really only viable in wvw…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Soldier
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa
are both considerably more viable on warr than ranger

…also not reliable removal… but i like it anyway – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

- and why the hell would anyone let a spirit of nature renewal survive whilst fighting the ranger? thats just stupid.

warr stun lock is all time that healing signet is ticking away

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

you say ‘yours’ as if i dont have a warrior? or maybe i read it wrong

ranger GS does piddly damage compared to warr GS, its a defensive weapon, a better comparison would be ranger GS vs warr mace+shield
… and its at the end of the chain

-more than that, warr is heavy armour; thats free defense-

oh right… yeh… gotta love those ranger cleanses, ‘hey pet; why are you limping? oh… that burn i shoved down your throat killed you?’… damage kitten yourself (the only two reliable cleanses rangers have imo is healing spring – which is a heal… so… eh – and evasive purity – which only cleanses two afflictions… one of which you could get off of you in the same amount of time it takes to dodge)

… oh and bear… but that relies on the bear being alive and responsive (and bears suck)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing – really only viable in wvw…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Soldier
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa
are both considerably more viable on warr than ranger

…also not reliable removal… but i like it anyway – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

- and why the hell would anyone let a spirit of nature renewal survive whilst fighting the ranger? thats just stupid.

warr stun lock is all time that healing signet is ticking away

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

Let me reiterate myself:

Okay, now I have to ask, how are you getting all of these things in one build.

List:
-Troll Unguent
-Elite Spirit
-High Protection Uptime
-High Vigor uptime
-High Amount of Evades
-Stealth
-Empathic Bond
-Evasive Purity
-Natural Healing
-Signet of the Wild
-Signet of the Beastmaster

Because we’re not going to have a theorycraft conversation about things that aren’t actually plausible. If this build exists, we’ll discuss it from there.

jcbroe.4329:

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

Let me reiterate myself:

Okay, now I have to ask, how are you getting all of these things in one build.

List:
-Troll Unguent
-Elite Spirit
-High Protection Uptime
-High Vigor uptime
-High Amount of Evades
-Stealth
-Empathic Bond
-Evasive Purity
-Natural Healing
-Signet of the Wild
-Signet of the Beastmaster

Because we’re not going to have a theorycraft conversation about things that aren’t actually plausible. If this build exists, we’ll discuss it from there.

You can’t just like you can’t have everything for Warrior in one build. The discussion isn’t about this stuff. Its about Troll Unguent and SoN. I see you have successfully tried to move away from that however lets stick to the topic, Hmm?

You can however, have a lot of that at once without giving up much

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

you say ‘yours’ as if i dont have a warrior? or maybe i read it wrong

ranger GS does piddly damage compared to warr GS, its a defensive weapon, a better comparison would be ranger GS vs warr mace+shield
… and its at the end of the chain

-more than that, warr is heavy armour; thats free defense-

oh right… yeh… gotta love those ranger cleanses, ‘hey pet; why are you limping? oh… that burn i shoved down your throat killed you?’… damage kitten yourself (the only two reliable cleanses rangers have imo is healing spring – which is a heal… so… eh – and evasive purity – which only cleanses two afflictions… one of which you could get off of you in the same amount of time it takes to dodge)

… oh and bear… but that relies on the bear being alive and responsive (and bears suck)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing – really only viable in wvw…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Soldier
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa
are both considerably more viable on warr than ranger

…also not reliable removal… but i like it anyway – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

- and why the hell would anyone let a spirit of nature renewal survive whilst fighting the ranger? thats just stupid.

warr stun lock is all time that healing signet is ticking away

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

… i was listing reliable ways to cleanse conditions (of which ranger has two – bear doesnt count… bear sucks)

transfer =/= cleanse
transfer = kitten your dps

how about runes of lyssa, 10 in discipline for signet recharge, 10 in defense for stance duration, dogged march or shield master
healing sig/stamina sig/serker stance/WHATEVER/signet of rage
mace+shield/GS (which seems very popular atm?)

go to 20 defense and you get heal/3sec and cleansing ire

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

you say ‘yours’ as if i dont have a warrior? or maybe i read it wrong

ranger GS does piddly damage compared to warr GS, its a defensive weapon, a better comparison would be ranger GS vs warr mace+shield
… and its at the end of the chain

-more than that, warr is heavy armour; thats free defense-

oh right… yeh… gotta love those ranger cleanses, ‘hey pet; why are you limping? oh… that burn i shoved down your throat killed you?’… damage kitten yourself (the only two reliable cleanses rangers have imo is healing spring – which is a heal… so… eh – and evasive purity – which only cleanses two afflictions… one of which you could get off of you in the same amount of time it takes to dodge)

… oh and bear… but that relies on the bear being alive and responsive (and bears suck)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing – really only viable in wvw…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Soldier
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa
are both considerably more viable on warr than ranger

…also not reliable removal… but i like it anyway – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

- and why the hell would anyone let a spirit of nature renewal survive whilst fighting the ranger? thats just stupid.

warr stun lock is all time that healing signet is ticking away

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

… i was listing reliable ways to cleanse conditions (of which ranger has two – bear doesnt count… bear sucks)

transfer =/= cleanse
transfer = kitten your dps

how about runes of lyssa, 10 in discipline for signet recharge, 10 in defense for stance duration, dogged march or shield master
healing sig/stamina sig/serker stance/WHATEVER/signet of rage
mace+shield/GS (which seems very popular atm?)

add another 20 to defense and you get heal/3sec and cleansing ire

Ok now how do you deal damage to people? Warrior is mostly power damage focused. We don’t have poison to reduce HoT.

Also, that is nice against conditions, however what does that do against Power Damage?

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

Let me reiterate myself:

Okay, now I have to ask, how are you getting all of these things in one build.

List:
-Troll Unguent
-Elite Spirit
-High Protection Uptime
-High Vigor uptime
-High Amount of Evades
-Stealth
-Empathic Bond
-Evasive Purity
-Natural Healing
-Signet of the Wild
-Signet of the Beastmaster

Because we’re not going to have a theorycraft conversation about things that aren’t actually plausible. If this build exists, we’ll discuss it from there.

You can’t just like you can’t have everything for Warrior in one build. The discussion isn’t about this stuff. Its about Troll Unguent and SoN. I see you have successfully tried to move away from that however lets stick to the topic, Hmm?

You can however, have a lot of that at once without giving up much

I’m asking, because earlier, I mentioned warriors healing being equal to rangers, and balanced, while the ranger is being more defensive, the warrior is more offensive, and I said it was a fair tradeoff.

However, throughout this entire thread, you have said that the ranger has access to every single one of these things on top of troll unguent, which isn’t true. So what build are we going with?

Because on a build without 30 in nature magic, and the proper runes and traits, vigor and protection uptime are low. And then you need 30 in Wilderness for condi removal. And then 30 in Marksmanship for activating SoTW to do anything. And then 30 in Beastmastery for more healing. And then another set of runes and being able to equip the traits needed in every slot to get everything that has been mentioned that happens at once during this ranger build that is so strong.

So I’m asking, which is it, is it this crazy impossible build, or is it that you actually can’t get all of those things in one build? Because in one build, if you invest, you can maybe get high healing, regen uptime, evades/dodges, and a little protection every once in awhile. And in that plausible and existing build, the warrior has a equally fair amount of survival options, but is more offensive and capable of a higher damage output.

So, is the healing per second balanced? When compared to other classes, yes. Rangers are a more defensive variant, while Warriors are more offensive, and Eles/Engis fall somewhere on the inbetween spectrum, being more offensive than rangers but not equaling the damage output of warriors, while also being slightly more defensive than the warrior.

So again, my answer is yes, it is balanced.

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

you say ‘yours’ as if i dont have a warrior? or maybe i read it wrong

ranger GS does piddly damage compared to warr GS, its a defensive weapon, a better comparison would be ranger GS vs warr mace+shield
… and its at the end of the chain

-more than that, warr is heavy armour; thats free defense-

oh right… yeh… gotta love those ranger cleanses, ‘hey pet; why are you limping? oh… that burn i shoved down your throat killed you?’… damage kitten yourself (the only two reliable cleanses rangers have imo is healing spring – which is a heal… so… eh – and evasive purity – which only cleanses two afflictions… one of which you could get off of you in the same amount of time it takes to dodge)

… oh and bear… but that relies on the bear being alive and responsive (and bears suck)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing – really only viable in wvw…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Soldier
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa
are both considerably more viable on warr than ranger

…also not reliable removal… but i like it anyway – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

- and why the hell would anyone let a spirit of nature renewal survive whilst fighting the ranger? thats just stupid.

warr stun lock is all time that healing signet is ticking away

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

… i was listing reliable ways to cleanse conditions (of which ranger has two – bear doesnt count… bear sucks)

transfer =/= cleanse
transfer = kitten your dps

how about runes of lyssa, 10 in discipline for signet recharge, 10 in defense for stance duration, dogged march or shield master
healing sig/stamina sig/serker stance/WHATEVER/signet of rage
mace+shield/GS (which seems very popular atm?)

add another 20 to defense and you get heal/3sec and cleansing ire

Ok now how do you deal damage to people? Warrior is mostly power damage focused. We don’t have burning/poison.

Also, that is nice against conditions, however what does that do against Power Damage?

tease out stun breaks>skullcrack>HB
theres another 50/40 trait points. and could easily slot balanced stance or endure pain

clearly you’re trolling.

jcbroe.4329:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

Let me reiterate myself:

Okay, now I have to ask, how are you getting all of these things in one build.

List:
-Troll Unguent
-Elite Spirit
-High Protection Uptime
-High Vigor uptime
-High Amount of Evades
-Stealth
-Empathic Bond
-Evasive Purity
-Natural Healing
-Signet of the Wild
-Signet of the Beastmaster

Because we’re not going to have a theorycraft conversation about things that aren’t actually plausible. If this build exists, we’ll discuss it from there.

You can’t just like you can’t have everything for Warrior in one build. The discussion isn’t about this stuff. Its about Troll Unguent and SoN. I see you have successfully tried to move away from that however lets stick to the topic, Hmm?

You can however, have a lot of that at once without giving up much

I’m asking, because earlier, I mentioned warriors healing being equal to rangers, and balanced, while the ranger is being more defensive, the warrior is more offensive, and I said it was a fair tradeoff.

However, throughout this entire thread, you have said that the ranger has access to every single one of these things on top of troll unguent, which isn’t true. So what build are we going with?

Because on a build without 30 in nature magic, and the proper runes and traits, vigor and protection uptime are low. And then you need 30 in Wilderness for condi removal. And then 30 in Marksmanship for activating SoTW to do anything. And then 30 in Beastmastery for more healing. And then another set of runes and being able to equip the traits needed in every slot to get everything that has been mentioned that happens at once during this ranger build that is so strong.

So I’m asking, which is it, is it this crazy impossible build, or is it that you actually can’t get all of those things in one build? Because in one build, if you invest, you can maybe get high healing, regen uptime, evades/dodges, and a little protection every once in awhile. And in that plausible and existing build, the warrior has a equally fair amount of survival options, but is more offensive and capable of a higher damage output.

So, is the healing per second balanced? When compared to other classes, yes. Rangers are a more defensive variant, while Warriors are more offensive, and Eles/Engis fall somewhere on the inbetween spectrum, being more offensive than rangers but not equaling the damage output, while also being slightly more defensive than the warrior.

So again, my answer is yes, it is balanced.

I would agree with you, except Berserker’s Power/Heightened Focus were moved to Grandmaster traits.

They used to be 10 traits, now they are 30 traits.

This cut our damage and hybrid builds significantly, weakening us greatly.

Daecollo.9578:

Natural Healing = 133 hp/s

Check your facts, good sir…

…oh wait, it was YOU again, Daecollo?!?

Crap. Fell for his trolling… again.

:(

Things that prevent Cleansing Ire.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

I would agree with you, except Berserker’s Power/Heightened Focus were moved to Grandmaster traits.

They used to be 10 traits, now they are 30 traits.

This cut our damage significantly.

But you still do more damage than a ranger does. I think I mentioned going x/x/20/30/x in a previous post. So you can either put that 20 towards the Power line and pick up the greatsword trait with +10% damage, you can put it towards getting might on crit on the greatsword with a mace/shield and run unsuspecting foe for a high crit chance coming off of skull crack, or you could go with 20 in tactics (for whatever reason) and get Destruction of the Empowered or something.

Personally, I’d go with 0/20/20/30/0, and as long as you build in some crit damage on the amulet/runes, then you’d have a much higher damage output than a ranger and its pet, while having the same amount of health regained per second, but with less access to boons and dodges for survival.

jcbroe.4329:

I would agree with you, except Berserker’s Power/Heightened Focus were moved to Grandmaster traits.

They used to be 10 traits, now they are 30 traits.

This cut our damage significantly.

But you still do more damage than a ranger does. I think I mentioned going x/x/20/30/x in a previous post. So you can either put that 20 towards the Power line and pick up the greatsword trait with +10% damage, you can put it towards getting might on crit on the greatsword with a mace/shield and run unsuspecting foe for a high crit chance coming off of skull crack, or you could go with 20 in tactics (for whatever reason) and get Destruction of the Empowered or something.

Personally, I’d go with 0/20/20/30/0, and as long as you build in some crit damage on the amulet/runes, then you’d have a much higher damage output than a ranger and its pet, while having the same amount of health regained per second, but with less access to boons and dodges for survival.

Um… Are you seriously considering a Warrior without at least 0/0/0/0/15?

We NEED Our discipline line to deal damage. Our burst damage is trash without Burst Mastery.

You need 30 in discipline to have that 7 second recast high damage STUN you cry about so much. Seeing as you have so much protection/evades it shouldn’t matter. Rangers are one of the hardest classes in the game to lock down, under thief.

Please go whine on warrior forums

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

I would agree with you, except Berserker’s Power/Heightened Focus were moved to Grandmaster traits.

They used to be 10 traits, now they are 30 traits.

This cut our damage significantly.

But you still do more damage than a ranger does. I think I mentioned going x/x/20/30/x in a previous post. So you can either put that 20 towards the Power line and pick up the greatsword trait with +10% damage, you can put it towards getting might on crit on the greatsword with a mace/shield and run unsuspecting foe for a high crit chance coming off of skull crack, or you could go with 20 in tactics (for whatever reason) and get Destruction of the Empowered or something.

Personally, I’d go with 0/20/20/30/0, and as long as you build in some crit damage on the amulet/runes, then you’d have a much higher damage output than a ranger and its pet, while having the same amount of health regained per second, but with less access to boons and dodges for survival.

Um… Are you seriously considering a Warrior without at least 0/0/0/0/15?

We NEED Our discipline line to deal damage. Our burst damage is trash without Burst Mastery.

You need 30 in discipline to have that 7 second recast high damage STUN you cry about so much. Seeing as you have so much protection/evades it shouldn’t matter. Rangers are one of the hardest classes in the game to lock down, under thief.

The damage dealer is 100 blades in what I mentioned, and skull crack would be available every 9 seconds, or every weapon swap.

And I never said anything about locking down a ranger. I was comparing, showing that when built defensively, a warrior does more damage in its defensive build than a ranger in their defensive build while having an even amount of hps, and rangers are compensated for their lack of damage output by having access to evades and a little protection here and there.

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

Natural Healing = 133 hp/s (Also 125 more for pet, far more then Adrenal Health.)
Troll Unguent = 342.4 hp/s (685 if you count pet.)
Signet of the Wild = 62 hp/s. (125+187 if you count the pet.)
Spirit of Nature = 480 hp/s. (1440 if you count the pet, and the spirit itself since it heals allies.)

That is 2570 Hp/s! Not Including Regeneration, which heals both the ranger and his pet.

1017 HP/s on just the ranger alone. With no healing power. No boons added

So let me teach you math and about ranger builds outside of sPvP. The most commonly used sources of healing for rangers are TU and SoW and regen. Assuming you are running a specific build that allows perma regen, here is how you would calculate healing/second for a ranger with 0 healing power

Perma regen=125/s
SoW=62/s
TU=850/sec for 10 seconds, 0 for 15 seconds—this is based on 10 second duration and 25 second cool down.

This implies that 40% of the time (10/25) TU is effective, and 60% of the time (15/25) it is not. While it is effective, a ranger heals for 1037 (125+62+850)hp/second. While it is not effective (most of the time), a ranger heals for 187 (125+62)hp/second. To calculate the ‘average’ healing during a 25 second period you multiply .4 × 1038 and add that to .6 × 187, which gives you 527 hp/second.

This number can be significantly boosted with healing power, but you must remember that most of the time, the effective healing is less than HALF of the average healing per second. Moreover, having perma regen sacrifices damage and most rangers don’t have that, so to calculate an accurate healing/second rate you’d need to assume less than 100% uptime for regen (more like 30% or even less for many builds).

So, for most of the time, a ranger will be healing for less than 200/second unless they spec healing power. That number increases ONLY if they cast an ability with a cooldown and they cast shout to proc a regen.

The addition of all the ‘people’ or units receiving the healing is, quite frankly, stupid. To do that, you’d need to calculate a healing/per second/per person(unit), but that would become less meaningful, since it will not as easily translate into survivability (eg healing a 5 people for 125 points is less meaningful than healing 1 person 725).

The problem is that rangers who spec for healing/survivability give up so much in direct damage they can’t kill effectively unless they go with a specific build (condition-regen). This does not seem to be the case for other classes such as warriors.

Bredin.5368:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

Natural Healing = 133 hp/s (Also 125 more for pet, far more then Adrenal Health.)
Troll Unguent = 342.4 hp/s (685 if you count pet.)
Signet of the Wild = 62 hp/s. (125+187 if you count the pet.)
Spirit of Nature = 480 hp/s. (1440 if you count the pet, and the spirit itself since it heals allies.)

That is 2570 Hp/s! Not Including Regeneration, which heals both the ranger and his pet.

1017 HP/s on just the ranger alone. With no healing power. No boons added

So let me teach you math and about ranger builds outside of sPvP. The most commonly used sources of healing for rangers are TU and SoW and regen. Assuming you are running a specific build that allows perma regen, here is how you would calculate healing/second for a ranger with 0 healing power

Perma regen=125/s
SoW=62/s
TU=850/sec for 10 seconds, 0 for 15 seconds—this is based on 10 second duration and 25 second cool down.

This implies that 40% of the time (10/25) TU is effective, and 60% of the time (15/25) it is not. While it is effective, a ranger heals for 1037 (125+62+850)hp/second. While it is not effective (most of the time), a ranger heals for 187 (125+62)hp/second. To calculate the ‘average’ healing during a 25 second period you multiply .4 × 1038 and add that to .6 × 187, which gives you 527 hp/second.

This number can be significantly boosted with healing power, but you must remember that most of the time, the effective healing is less than HALF of the average healing per second. Moreover, having perma regen sacrifices damage and most rangers don’t have that, so to calculate an accurate healing/second rate you’d need to assume less than 100% uptime for regen (more like 30% or even less for many builds).

So, for most of the time, a ranger will be healing for less than 200/second unless they spec healing power. That number increases ONLY if they cast an ability with a cooldown and they cast shout to proc a regen.

The addition of all the ‘people’ or units receiving the healing is, quite frankly, stupid. To do that, you’d need to calculate a healing/per second/per person(unit), but that would become less meaningful, since it will not as easily translate into survivability (eg healing a 5 people for 125 points is less meaningful than healing 1 person 725).

The problem is that rangers who spec for healing/survivability give up so much in direct damage they can’t kill effectively unless they go with a specific build (condition-regen). This does not seem to be the case for other classes such as warriors.

So your saying a 0/10/30/30/0 Warrior with Healing Power is going to hurt anyone with his 25 stacks of bleeds and constantly having to pick up banners and move around?

Yeah I guess those 337 power attacks hurt.

Play a ranger; hopefully it will all become apparent. If it doesn’t, please post your build so I can enjoy myself.

Daecollo.9578:

Fjandi.2516:

Q.Q

When you quote something, do it logically so I know what your talking about, it looks like you quoted some things and QQed. Does not make sense.

Daecollo talking about logic? Lol what I wrote doesn’t make any sense, exactly like every thread you open on this forum.

You realise this is what he wants, folks? Daecollo’s kinda legendary, for this sort of thing.

Daecollo.9578:

Yeah, lowing my HPS to 263 forever is mean. especially when they use it on Adrenal Health and it ticks its third second and heals significantly less.

I think he’s saying that realistically, you wouldn’t have poison on you all the time. and if you do have poison on you all the time, l2P cause that’s a personal problem and not a class mechanic problem. Do you have a LV. 80 ranger? If you do, play it more often so you can see first hand if what you are saying is true. If you don’t, stop basing your arguments over a non-existent build because no one build will give you all of what you’re talking about. Simply listing our skills and passive abilities does not help your case.

Lets focus on real topics where there is hope of actual conversation, shall we?

Noobie.1073:

Daecollo.9578:

Yeah, lowing my HPS to 263 forever is mean. especially when they use it on Adrenal Health and it ticks its third second and heals significantly less.

I think he’s saying that realistically, you wouldn’t have poison on you all the time. and if you do have poison on you all the time, l2P cause that’s a personal problem and not a class mechanic problem. Do you have a LV. 80 ranger? If you do, play it more often so you can see first hand if what you are saying is true. If you don’t, stop basing your arguments over a non-existent build because no one build will give you all of what you’re talking about. Simply listing our skills and passive abilities does not help your case.

As I said before, others have driven the topic to that point. Argue with them if you want I’m arguing about the insane Hp/S Troll Unguent and Spirit of Nature bring.

Daecollo.9578:

As I said before, others have driven the topic to that point. Argue with them if you want I’m arguing about the insane Hp/S Troll Unguent and Spirit of Nature bring.

Again, the “insane” Hp/S you speak of is only specific to a few select builds which ultimately end up giving the ranger next to nothing in terms of dps. Besides running an apothecary set for condition/regen, you’re throwing your eggs in the wrong basket. If you factor our pets damage (which will miss on moving targets, you don’t even have to dodge or have swiftness, just kite it) we’re doing very little to kill you. if you fight a ranger and don’t know how to move while attacking, L2P first and then complain. If you have not played a ranger yet, create one, take him in to sPvP and see first hand how much this “insane” regen is helping you. Once you do that, post some pictures or videos of “your” gameplay and teach the rest of us “rangers” how to effectively play our rangers. You “seem” to know a lot about our class mechanics, so please enlighten us with “your” personal experience.

Stop feeding the trolls

Daecollo.9578:

856 × 10 × 2 for healing both you and your pet = 17120
17120 / 25 = 684.8 (685.)

Add in the extra second it takes to cast, and its 658 hp/s.

Looking at heal hp/s for two entities is only appropriate if your opponent is using AOE attacks hitting those two entities simultaneously The moment the opponent(s) focus fires on one entity. the heal hp/s for just that one entity is all that matters.

Also, Spirit of Nature’s heal is only while it’s up. You correctly accounted for this in your Troll Ungent calc, but ignored it for SoN. Since the spirit’s max life is 60 sec and cooldown is 180 sec, its average heal is 160 hp/s, not 480 hp/s. Since it can be killed prior to that 60 sec, its average heal is actually 0-160 hp/s.

i find it funny he is the only warrior.. mind u stun locking warrior.. who has a problem with rangers.. lmao.. i find this verry hilarious in every way possible.. of all classes ur having a problem with ranger ? then you have to be extremely bad at playing warrior.. -_- im a stunlocking warrior and the only class i even remotely have trouble with are necros.. lol…

Daecollo.9578:

Things that prevent Cleansing Ire.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Unless of course, you use Longbow.

You’re right man, all ranger heals should be halved cause they heal pet too.

Thanks for your input.

So Daecollo, who plays FOTM class; warrior, came here complaining about ranger? Boy.. You must really suck at this game huh? I suggest go play other class, May I suggest ranger? Although I am afraid that ranger might be too hard for you since you’re already having problem with easiest class

Why are you feeding this troll?

He’s even using spirit of nature in his “math” which you have to pretty much have your hand up it’s butt to get the regen from it.

Yes, if ranger’s want more damage, then something has to be done about their healing. This is why the pets had to be nerfed. I’ve seen rangers tank full berserker warriors in WvW thanks to troll ungent.

DaShi.1368:

Yes, if ranger’s want more damage, then something has to be done about their healing. This is why the pets had to be nerfed. I’ve seen rangers tank full berserker warriors in WvW thanks to troll ungent.

That is a combination of the ranger evading+lack of warrior CC. If you stunlock a ranger, they are going to take damage regardless of their stats if you are a berserk warrior.

DaShi.1368:

Yes, if ranger’s want more damage, then something has to be done about their healing. This is why the pets had to be nerfed. I’ve seen rangers tank full berserker warriors in WvW thanks to troll ungent.

I run full apothecary in WvW and the only reason I can tank anything is because of s/d. It has three built in evades in addition to lightning reflexes and 50% endurance regen. And while this gives me extreme survivability, it also takes a huge toll on my dps. I can’t really kill anyone because I deal so little damage. So while I may kite the kitten out of a stun lock warrior, he doesn’t have to worry about a thing since I can deal barely any damage to him.

Being tanky has a price.

Cufufalating.8479:

You’re right man, all ranger heals should be halved cause they heal pet too.

Thanks for your input.

Also, warrior heals should be doubled because they don’t have any pet, thus take double dmg.
/sarcasm

Pls Anet delete pets ( we dont need a stupid IA controlled pet that is easily kiteable) and buff ranger damage.

BTW, Troll unguent is really good against sustained damage, but is a SHYT against burst.

Daecollo.9578:

Troll Unguent 684 Hp/s… Can’t believe this isn’t looked at!

Spirit of Nature heals the ENTIRE party for 480 (That is 2400 hp/s!) It also revives fallen allies and cures conditions and now with reduced cool-down it is one of the best elites in the game!

Along with easy Stealth, lots of protection and many evades and passive condition removal isn’t this a bit too much healing?

OP

You are Enraged by threats of Nerfs to your Elite classes due to lesser classes saying your class being out of control, what did next to ‘show them a lesson and show them whose boss’?

In Retaliation, you come to our forums and creating this thread; calling out for nerfs for our class.

(By the way Thief and War, you’ve been Exposed).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Mace-Shield-GS-How-to-properly-nerf-it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Hidden-Thief-Revamped-for-Tricks

I Encourage you to Peacefuly Exit your self from our forums.

Burnfall.9573:

Daecollo.9578:

Troll Unguent 684 Hp/s… Can’t believe this isn’t looked at!

Spirit of Nature heals the ENTIRE party for 480 (That is 2400 hp/s!) It also revives fallen allies and cures conditions and now with reduced cool-down it is one of the best elites in the game!

Along with easy Stealth, lots of protection and many evades and passive condition removal isn’t this a bit too much healing?

OP

You are Enraged by threats of Nerfs to your Elite classes due to lesser classes saying your class being out of control, what did next to ‘show them a lesson and show them whose boss’?

In Retaliation, you come to our forums and creating this thread; calling out for nerfs for our class.

(By the way Thief and War, you’ve been Exposed).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Mace-Shield-GS-How-to-properly-nerf-it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Hidden-Thief-Revamped-for-Tricks

I Encourage you to Peacefuly Exit your self from our forums.

I also play Necromancer too

So your agreeing with my main post? Or are you just trying to divert it away from the topic?

Daecollo.9578:

I also play Necromancer too

So your agreeing with my main post? Or are you just trying to divert it away from the topic?

He’s just trying to divert it from topic to rag on ANet, as 80% of his posts are.

Daecollo.9578:

I also play Necromancer too

So your agreeing with my main post? Or are you just trying to divert it away from the topic?

He’s somewhat calling you a hypocrite, which I’m starting to agree with. You state that warrior’s effortless regen from Healing Signet is fine because poison is a counter, yet state that it’s not (enough of) a counter for Troll Unguent when the only efficient condition removal a ranger has to deal with it kills the pet in the process, which you failed multiple times to acknowledge in your calculations.

SynfulChaot

He’s just trying to divert it from topic to rag on ANet, as 80% of his posts are.
—————————-
What if i was?

You Appose and Ridicule me for my 80% posts in Rangers Defense and against Elitistism and Injustice treatments by Elitist and Favorite classes than serves the right to respond in my class forums and posts? Well that makes you a Hypocrite and Deceptional.

As the saying goes, “those who are for me, are not apposed to me…… who are not for me, appose”

Let me put this in better terms for you..

Those who call themselves Rangers, are not against those who defends them.

As i always been told long ago about those who claimes’ to be in our defense, “There are wolves amongst you who are in sheep clothes”

That sums up your exposure as the wolf (an elitists class) whose in disguise as a sheep(ranger class).

Accept it and leave us sheeps to ourselves.

Tell them, you failed your mission and there are no free meals today nor forever.

Finally tell them, “our Resistance are more stronger than they think”.

Daecollo.9578:

Troll Unguent 684 Hp/s… Can’t believe this isn’t looked at!

Spirit of Nature heals the ENTIRE party for 480 (That is 2400 hp/s!) It also revives fallen allies and cures conditions and now with reduced cool-down it is one of the best elites in the game!

Along with easy Stealth, lots of protection and many evades and passive condition removal isn’t this a bit too much healing?

Lol. Yes, I am sure ANET is trying to figure out ways to nerf the ranger even more. And no, it isn’t OP at all. If anything it is weak given the current state of rangers.

Daecollo.9578:

Burnfall.9573:

Daecollo.9578:

Troll Unguent 684 Hp/s… Can’t believe this isn’t looked at!

Spirit of Nature heals the ENTIRE party for 480 (That is 2400 hp/s!) It also revives fallen allies and cures conditions and now with reduced cool-down it is one of the best elites in the game!

Along with easy Stealth, lots of protection and many evades and passive condition removal isn’t this a bit too much healing?

OP

You are Enraged by threats of Nerfs to your Elite classes due to lesser classes saying your class being out of control, what did next to ‘show them a lesson and show them whose boss’?

In Retaliation, you come to our forums and creating this thread; calling out for nerfs for our class.

(By the way Thief and War, you’ve been Exposed).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Mace-Shield-GS-How-to-properly-nerf-it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Hidden-Thief-Revamped-for-Tricks

I Encourage you to Peacefuly Exit your self from our forums.

I also play Necromancer too

So your agreeing with my main post? Or are you just trying to divert it away from the topic?

Perhaps i came out being to harsh and i apologize.

But

You are an Elitsts class/s and if you were in our defense, you wouldn’t be apposed to us being the lesser class.

Seriously,

With you being Necro, War and Thief, how much a threat we are to you?

with…..

-Necro being the King of conditions,
- War being the King of dps
- Thief being the King of all stats combined…times x 2

As the saying goes, “you can’t be in both worlds at the same time, it’s either you choose one or leave them)”, “(.. and if you believe you can be in both worlds at the same time, it only results you in being a Hypocrite”).

No Personal Hard Feelings…

Burnfall.9573:

— snip —

Ranger is my main, always has been and always will be. I play all classes, but I always come back to ranger as my preferred class.

Unlike some, I use my time in playing other classes to see what each does right and what each does wrong. I try to step back and determine the reasoning for balance choices, not just for ranger but for all classes. Just because some of us don’t only play ranger doesn’t mean that we’re trying to hold it back. It might just mean that we occasionally want variety. Or occasionally want to play a class that’s easier in PvE. >.<

But.

I will always point out what I think is weak in the class, and I do if you actually deign to read my posts. I will not, however, try to claim the class is in a weaker place than it is. We are quite viable in PvP and WvW. We are still capable of late-game PvE, but it takes more skill and micro-managing than any other class and it is still prone to leaving us with a dead pet and lowered DPS.

Also, if you bothered with my posts you’d see that I was also worried about the state of the class following Hrouda’s departure. It’s only due to a personal conversation with Sharp that I think that we still have a chance of getting better.

Constantly railing on the state of the ranger undermines any decent argument you may have. Especially when half your posts don’t show anything but dissatisfaction, as if you’ve already moved on. You show no objectivity. Only pure subjectivity that lashes out on any that disagree with you. Your abundance of deleted posts showcases that fact.

Try to malign me as much as you will, but instead of just railing on the class I’m trying to help it by discussing civilly with other rangers on our weak points. You may want to try it sometime. It will get you better results than your current tactic.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Burnfall.9573:

— snip —

Ranger is my main, always has been and always will be. I play all classes, but I always come back to ranger as my preferred class.

Unlike some, I use my time in playing other classes to see what each does right and what each does wrong. I try to step back and determine the reasoning for balance choices, not just for ranger but for all classes. Just because some of us don’t only play ranger doesn’t mean that we’re trying to hold it back. It might just mean that we occasionally want variety. Or occasionally want to play a class that’s easier in PvE. >.<

But.

I will always point out what I think is weak in the class, and I do if you actually deign to read my posts. I will not, however, try to claim the class is in a weaker place than it is. We are quite viable in PvP and WvW. We are still capable of late-game PvE, but it takes more skill and micro-managing than any other class and it is still prone to leaving us with a dead pet and lowered DPS.

Also, if you bothered with my posts you’d see that I was also worried about the state of the class following Hrouda’s departure. It’s only due to a personal conversation with Sharp that I think that we still have a chance of getting better.

Constantly railing on the state of the ranger undermines any decent argument you may have. Especially when half your posts don’t show anything but dissatisfaction, as if you’ve already moved on. You show no objectivity. Only pure subjectivity that lashes out on any that disagree with you. Your abundance of deleted posts showcases that fact.

Try to malign me as much as you will, but instead of just railing on the class I’m trying to help it by discussing civilly with other rangers on our weak points. You may want to try it sometime. It will get you better results than your current tactic.

Once again, you are ridiculing me and Judging me.

My deleted and Infracted threads/posts had nothing to do with my dissagreenment with anyone.

It was in the result of my resistance and oppositions against rangers class injustice and mal-treatments by the eleitists classes and their supporters.

Not forgetting

How Arena.net is allowing and supporting them in their march to tyranny and abuses to lesser classes.

I never said that rangers class can’t function at all, all i said was ranger class is barely surviving with all those Intentional nerfs and that we are at the bottom of the classes.

Few weeks ago, there was a poll of the classes, and guess what?

The ranger class made the bottom list award.

And also guess what, the ranger class spirit got nerfed.

And guess what, what’s next?

That’s what ranger class have to live by each incoming patch; knowing we are Arena,net Prime target (sheep) for the next slaughter.

You stand by Objectivity….

Let me tell you this last thing,,,,,,

How many Objectivity threads have gone Infracted, deleted and ‘were put under the rug’?

Far too many

Seriously,

In other word,

Subjectivity or Objectivity, will not make any difference of Impact to Arena.net “visions” for the Ranger class, whatsoever.

I always look at it this way; neither your words nor mine will never change anything to ranger class.

Ever..

And why since 1 year ago, the Ranger class is still under the condemnation of bug lists.?

here is one…

(1 year and counting)….

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Bug-List

“We are currently in the process of cleaning up old sticky posts. We have noticed that this bug list is no longer being maintained by the original poster, so we are going to let it drop off”.

Ranger is getting nerfed across the board for things that are being balanced in PvP. And if you don’t understand why that spirit nerf was needed in PvP, then you never paid attention to the PvP state of the game. There it was needed. Now it wasn’t needed to cascade to PvE as well, but looking at the change it is not as big a nerf as many were making it out to be and spirits are almost as viable in PvE as they were before. This was no pet damage nerf, after all.

Yes, the ranger is weak in late-game PvE. Noone should argue with you there. I know I won’t. We are. But we are not as such in PvP. We are still a boon in PvP if played right. And we can still roam well in WvW, using mostly the powerful PvP builds.

You are attributing far more of the nerfs to malice and ill-will than they are. Most of them have been necessary for PvP balance. Maybe not the pet damage one as that was due to other players not understanding that they needed to attack our pet too instead of only us. And definitely not the SB range nerf or ‘animation fix’ as those were … I’m not sure what those were. Probably just trying to make other weapons more ‘viable’ my removing options. Not a good solution, but a solution nonetheless. It did force other builds after all.

And you are forgetting our occasional buffs. Like the one to longbow. No, we don’t recieve many buffs … yet. But I think that is due to our class being broken at a fundamental design level. Like the class was designed before the combat system was.

Our problems are more deep-down than any other class and will take more time to fix. I do think they are finally finding some solutions to our problems and I do think we’ll be seeing some improvements soon.

Believe me or don’t. I honestly don’t give a kitten (self-censored). But don’t tell me that I don’t want the class to improve. Were that the case I’d not talk here at all. I’d not report posts that break the code of conduct. I’d not try to improve the dialogue. I’d not have talked to Sharp at PAX about class balance, especially as it pertains to rangers.

I do care and I do want the class to finally come into it’s own in PvE. And if you’re too blind to realize that, then maybe you should take a break.

Just to break in here, but PvP players are calling the Spirit change a buff, and it was in PvP lol. While you can’t keep the passive effects on the build 100% of the time, the strong part of the build and where most of the damage comes from are the actives proc’ing each other and storm spirit doing ~3k damage on active.

So now, it rewards players for intentionally getting their spirits killed, because it’s raised the AoE DPS, especially with Natures Vengeance, by being able to use the spirits actives even more often because they are on a shorter recharge if they are killed before 25 seconds. It punishes players for counter playing the build by killing the spirits even more, which is just hilarious.

Oh, this is just amazing, this totally explains why I’ve never ever yet ever seen a ranger die in wvwvw or pvp or for that matter in pve.

RANGERS THE AMAZING NEVER DYING TANKS OF gw2.

Edit: Maybe they gave us this healing ability to make up for all the other short comings that go into the class, low health, low armor, low toughness, low damage, hey but we gave you great healing!