Guild Wars 2

Sleepy.2647:

Jay.3284:

@Sleepy

Thieves bring much more to a dungeon than Rangers…

For example….? I can only think about stealth and getting a single mob from a pack sometimes.

Thief in dungeons is like ranger’s pets, in theory they are awesome, in reality…not so much.

It’s a matter of taste bringing a class over another one.

A Thief can spamm up to 7 Blossoms ins a row for 4,2k AoE bleed each = 29,4k damage while constantly evading.
With pistols they have a DPS more than twice as high as a Shortbow can deal which was already stated and proved in several other posts within this topic.

Thorquist.8126:

My bet is that we, rangers, are punished because of bots and that’s the main reason why people hate this class now.

As I understand it it’s mostly a legacy of early Beta stages when rangers (especially longbow at max range) did fairly great damage, coupled with combo fields they were apparently seeing whole groups of rangers just standing at max range pew pew’ing with a few others thrown in for the odd combo field back then (in W3 tests anyhow).

I suppose seeing the whole flashy, complex combat system reduced to a max range pew pew spam-fest led to some serious nerfing.

It’s always difficult balancing ranged damage though, ‘cause the risk is lower so should the reward be.
What surprises me is that I don’t see more complaints about the ranger’s melee options tbh, because that’s where you really got hosed imo (not just weapons, but synergy with traits and utilities as well).

Snafoo.2869:

Thorquist.8126:

My bet is that we, rangers, are punished because of bots and that’s the main reason why people hate this class now.

As I understand it it’s mostly a legacy of early Beta stages when rangers (especially longbow at max range) did fairly great damage, coupled with combo fields they were apparently seeing whole groups of rangers just standing at max range pew pew’ing with a few others thrown in for the odd combo field back then (in W3 tests anyhow).

I suppose seeing the whole flashy, complex combat system reduced to a max range pew pew spam-fest led to some serious nerfing.

It’s always difficult balancing ranged damage though, ‘cause the risk is lower so should the reward be.
What surprises me is that I don’t see more complaints about the ranger’s melee options tbh, because that’s where you really got hosed imo (not just weapons, but synergy with traits and utilities as well).

Because melee is so bad that people have forgotten that it ever is.

Sdric.8526:

With pistols they have a DPS more than twice as high as a Shortbow can deal which was already stated and proved in several other posts within this topic.

Proved by who? By two screenshots comparing two chars with not the stated gear/traits one using autoattack and the other one using two skills or by theorycrafting “DPS” where downtimes are not added into the calculation? DPS is harder to calculate than that.

Since thief is so great having such an insane amount of damage and survivality, we should move this conversation to the thief forum, i’m sure they will agree with it and would probably make them stop asking for PvE buffs.

In fact, since they do more than twice the DPS we do (meaning they do more DPS than many other classes) we should make a petition to improve rangers DPS by 100%…let’s send them this petition, it would make me happy to have ranger damage increased by 100%.

I don’t remember this class being this broken during the beta test. My pets can’t hold aggro more than a few seconds even without me attacking the mob regardless of the enemy type. This completely defeats the purpose of this class. ArenaNet should not be punishing legitimate players for botters and farmers.

Sleepy.2647:

Sdric.8526:

With pistols they have a DPS more than twice as high as a Shortbow can deal which was already stated and proved in several other posts within this topic.

Proved by who? By two screenshots comparing two chars with not the stated gear/traits one using autoattack and the other one using two skills or by theorycrafting “DPS” where downtimes are not added into the calculation? DPS is harder to calculate than that.

Since thief is so great having such an insane amount of damage and survivality, we should move this conversation to the thief forum, i’m sure they will agree with it and would probably make them stop asking for PvE buffs.

In fact, since they do more than twice the DPS we do (meaning they do more DPS than many other classes) we should make a petition to improve rangers DPS by 100%…let’s send them this petition, it would make me happy to have ranger damage increased by 100%.

Proved by logic and elementary mathematics. You fierce hater of thieves? A thief with 2 pistols have autoattack for 1.5K with 100% bleed (not only from back). Speed ??1/2 sec (2 per sec). Total 3k per second. "2"ability with 2k crit plus 5 stacks vulner (can do 22 per minute). “3” with 5000-8000 damage ( can spam 14 times per minute.)
Total max damage to consider:
1 – 90000p/m = 1500dps
2 – 44000p/m = 733dps
3 – 112000p/m = 1866dps

And ranger can’t do more than 1.1k damage with any shortbow ability. So count. Speed nearly same.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Proved by logic and elementary mathematics. You fierce hater of thieves? A thief with 2 pistols have autoattack for 1.5K with 100% bleed (not only from back). Speed ??1/2 sec (2 per sec). Total 3k per second. "2"ability with 2k crit plus 5 stacks vulner (can do 22 per minute). “3” with 5000-8000 damage ( can spam 14 times per minute.)
Total max damage to consider:
1 – 90000p/m = 1500dps
2 – 44000p/m = 733dps
3 – 112000p/m = 1866dps

And ranger can’t do more than 1.1k damage with any shortbow ability. So count. Speed nearly same.

Nope. You made some mistakes.

First of all a thief pistol doesn’t fire that fast. that 1/2 second is the casting time, and there’s a delay between casts. In a quick test my pistol fired 35 times in 30 seconds, meaning attack speed is .857 seconds, compared with the ranger shortbows .52 seconds (fired 57 times in 30 seconds).

Second of all where did you get that 1.5k damage? In the mists with all power gear, berserker amulet, the 5% pistol damage trait, and the superior sigil of force, i could only hit the lightest golem for 550 damage with 1.1k crit, even with the 5 stacks of vuln. With the same setup on my ranger, i did 450 damage and about 900 crit.

Third, and i may have misread your post, but you did factor in that when you’re using one skill you can’t use others right? and that initiative exists?

From my tests with a combination of pistol autoattack and unload, p/p does about 12% more DPS than shortbow autoattack. This means that p/p pistols need a damage boost. Why? If pets worked properly, and they actually dealt 45% of our main damage like the devs said, that means we would do 2x the damage of a p/p thief working as hard as he can.

Division.9618:

MeGaZlo.9516:

Proved by logic and elementary mathematics. You fierce hater of thieves? A thief with 2 pistols have autoattack for 1.5K with 100% bleed (not only from back). Speed ??1/2 sec (2 per sec). Total 3k per second. "2"ability with 2k crit plus 5 stacks vulner (can do 22 per minute). “3” with 5000-8000 damage ( can spam 14 times per minute.)
Total max damage to consider:
1 – 90000p/m = 1500dps
2 – 44000p/m = 733dps
3 – 112000p/m = 1866dps

And ranger can’t do more than 1.1k damage with any shortbow ability. So count. Speed nearly same.

Nope. You made some mistakes.

First of all a thief pistol doesn’t fire that fast. that 1/2 second is the casting time, and there’s a delay between casts. In a quick test my pistol fired 35 times in 30 seconds, meaning attack speed is .857 seconds, compared with the ranger shortbows .52 seconds (fired 57 times in 30 seconds).

Second of all where did you get that 1.5k damage? In the mists with all power gear, berserker amulet, the 5% pistol damage trait, and the superior sigil of force, i could only hit the lightest golem for 550 damage with 1.1k crit, even with the 5 stacks of vuln. With the same setup on my ranger, i did 450 damage and about 900 crit.

Third, and i may have misread your post, but you did factor in that when you’re using one skill you can’t use others right? and that initiative exists?

From my tests with a combination of pistol autoattack and unload, p/p does about 12% more DPS than shortbow autoattack. This means that p/p pistols need a damage boost. Why? If pets worked properly, and they actually dealt 45% of our main damage like the devs said, that means we would do 2x the damage of a p/p thief working as hard as he can.

Wrong build mb?
try 15 30 0 0 25

So, with that “DPS” calculation, i should kill 2 golems from the mist with a thief by the time i kill just one with my ranger…huh?

Fact is it takes on average 5-8 seconds with ranger, and 5-8 seconds with thief to kill a single golem, if thief had twice the DPS then it should kill them twice as fast and that’s even giving thief the advantage of using 2 reload per golem which in reality cannot be spammed.

I did this by trying 2-3 reload per golem (in reality you can’t spam it) and also mixing body shot, autoattacks + reload. And also did it with the ranger using one of the worst DD pets, to make it more “realistic”, pet used was devourer. Guess what happens when you put into account a DD pet…these golems die in less than 5 seconds, not even gonna mention that you can take advantage of other skills to boost damage and thief also can do this.

So…where do these test come from? You just made the worst DPS calculation ever, you include autoattacks + skills DPS at the same time which is NOT POSSIBLE at all, there are downtimes where if you use one thing you won’t use the other, and animation casts are longer than skill cast time cutting it even more.
Even if a skill casts in 1 second, you won’t use 60 skills per minute… and obviously you can’t add the skill damage it “could” do over a minute to the damage it “could” do over a minute, are you playing 2 thieves at the same time to do that?

So yeah, thief DOESN’T do twice the DPS and in fact they do way less DPS than rangers when we are capable of keeping our DD pet alive…which is not rare at all except for a few situations where the pet gets insta killed.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Wrong build mb?
try 15 30 0 0 25

With that build, using all of the damage boosts, i can’t go past 1.35k damage.

If i count in all the situational damage boosters the ranger has, i can outDPS that even 1.5k. With my situational boosts (10% from full endurance, 10% from flanking), and with my attack speed tests, the thief would have to fire 50% slower than me to match my dps. The thief fires 60% slower than me, so i outDPS him with 1k crits.

Sleepy.2647:

So, with that “DPS” calculation, i should kill 2 golems from the mist with a thief by the time i kill just one with my ranger…huh?

Fact is it takes 5-8 seconds with ranger, and 5-8 seconds with thief to kill a single golem, if thief had twice the DPS then it should kill them twice as fast and that’s even giving thief the advantage of using 2 reload per golem which in reality canno’t be spammed.

I did this by using 2-3 reload per golem (in reality you can’t spam it) and also mixing autoattacks + reload. And also did it with the ranger using one of the worst DD pets, to make it more “realistic”, pet used was devourer. Guess what happens when you put into account a DD pet…these golems die in less than 5 seconds, not even gonna mention that you can take advantage of other skills to boost damage and thief also can do this.

So…where do these test come from? You just made the worst DPS calculation ever, you include autoattacks + skills DPS at the same time which is NOT POSSIBLE at all, there are downtimes where if you use one thing you won’t use the other, and animation casts are longer than skill cast time cutting it even more.
Even if a skill casts in 1 second, you won’t use 60 skills per minute…

So yeah, thief DOESN’T do twice the DPS and in fact they do way less DPS than rangers when we are capable of keeping our DD pet alive…which is not rare at all except for a few situations where the pet gets insta killed.

You trying to deny the obvious, explaining that with your sense of time?
A fact is a fact. By the way, do not forget to consider the fact that the shortbow – the most powerful ranger weapon. But thief’s weapons… well… all good.

MeGaZlo.9516:

You trying to deny the obvious, explaining that with your sense of time?
A fact is a fact. By the way, do not forget to consider the fact that the shortbow – the most powerful ranger weapon. But thief’s weapons… well… all good.

Yes, i’m trying to deny the obvious, that your DPS test only exist in your imagination, as i said in theory that might work wonders.

And it’s sad that you think the biggest DPS/burst ranger has is shortbow, that’s probably why you hate ranger so much.

On a side note, i didn’t imagine these 5-8 seconds, i actually timed it with a chronometer. But hey, i guess people should be really happy with your thief since you can use two skills and autoattacks at the same time…seems scary…

blurps.2340:

Nayru.4537:

nldixon.8514:

Nayru.4537:

nldixon.8514:

Nayru.4537:

nldixon.8514:

Nayru.4537:

nldixon.8514:

Nayru.4537:

Edit: If you’re playing Ranger because they use bows; Thieves shortbow is better and Warriors longbow is better than Rangers.

Uh, wrong. The Warrior longbow sucks except for the AoE fire field combo. It only has 900 range. Not better than the Ranger longbow AT ALL.

Actually there is an adept warrior trait that makes Longbow range 1200. What now?

Great. Now you have a trait that’s basically worthless, a range that’s the same as everybody else, and you still only have one combo attack that’s worth anything.

Anything else?

Worthless? Like 85% of the Ranger traits? Doesn’t change the fact that warrior longbow does more dps and is more useful than Ranger longbow.

Anything else?

Be as smarmy as you like, but you’re still wrong. Warrior longbow doesn’t compare to Ranger longbow for DPS.

I’m pretty sure it does. If you enjoy attacking once every 3 seconds then be my guest. Warrior longbow surpasses ranger longbow in every aspect.

Being “pretty sure” doesn’t make you right. Sorry. Just because you keep saying it over and over doesn’t make it true either.

Warrior longbow has it’s advantages over the Ranger longbow, but it’s not better by any stretch of the imagination (except yours, apparently).

The facts make me right. The fact that your only argument so far has been “warrior longbow isnt as good as ranger longbow by any stretch of the imagination, it has 900 range” makes this my last reply to you as you are clearly just a fanboy with no valid points.

Don’t worry, the other 99.9% of players are pretty sure warrior longbow is better than ranger longbow.

Warrior and Ranger Longbow just have different purposes. Warrior LB is a utility weapon for WvW sieges and laying down the huge fire combo field in groups when using a support build. It’s not something pretty much anyone would use for personal DPS though.

Ranger LB has the longest range of any weapon in the game ( talking traited about both here – 1200 vs 1500 ), control effects on almost every skill and a lot better single target dps. The problem with Ranger LB damage is not so much the weapon as such but that glass cannon builds aren’t really viable and the penalty for being in close range punishes builds with longer time to kill way too much.

Akimbo.4835:

Because Rangers are so weak compared to any other profession. There’s nothing like fighting alongside a warrior, for example and seeing them kill 4-5 mobs in half the time it takes the Ranger to kill 1 (or maybe 2-3 if you have piercing arrows and can line them up properly).

Complaining about the performance while leveling is utterly ridiculous. Shortbow/Sword+Torch and traps is just as hilariously faceroll as the GS signet warrior.

Well, I think one solution to fixing longbows long ranged shot would be remove the range req for max damage, make it always hit as hard as it does at max range, and then when you are at max range, let it do double damage or get some % damage increase. For those saying it would be op, I dont think so, not even if they doubled its damage, I rarely see 3k crits with it and I roll glass cannon, I tend to average 2k-2500, double that would be 4-5k, and the occasional 6k crit. Many classes get that damage on their auto attack combos, glass cannon thieves and guardians and axe warriors can get almost 10k damage in 3-4 auto attacks, I think it would be fair.

Sleepy.2647:

MeGaZlo.9516:

You trying to deny the obvious, explaining that with your sense of time?
A fact is a fact. By the way, do not forget to consider the fact that the shortbow – the most powerful ranger weapon. But thief’s weapons… well… all good.

Yes, i’m trying to deny the obvious, that your DPS test only exist in your imagination, as i said in theory that might work wonders.

And it’s sad that you think the biggest DPS/burst ranger has is shortbow, that’s probably why you hate ranger so much.

On a side note, i didn’t imagine these 5-8 seconds, i actually timed it with a chronometer. But hey, i guess people should be really happy with your thief since you can use two skills and autoattacks at the same time…seems scary…

Don’t be too hard on him. He is not the first person to look at a Rogue talents and say “OMG so powerful!”

It’s only when you actually play a Rogue for sometime that you realize how limiting Initiative and cool downs between ability uses is.

Maxzero.4032:

Sleepy.2647:

MeGaZlo.9516:

You trying to deny the obvious, explaining that with your sense of time?
A fact is a fact. By the way, do not forget to consider the fact that the shortbow – the most powerful ranger weapon. But thief’s weapons… well… all good.

Yes, i’m trying to deny the obvious, that your DPS test only exist in your imagination, as i said in theory that might work wonders.

And it’s sad that you think the biggest DPS/burst ranger has is shortbow, that’s probably why you hate ranger so much.

On a side note, i didn’t imagine these 5-8 seconds, i actually timed it with a chronometer. But hey, i guess people should be really happy with your thief since you can use two skills and autoattacks at the same time…seems scary…

Don’t be too hard on him. He is not the first person to look at a Rogue and say “OMG so powerful.”

It’s only when you actually play a Rogue for sometime that you realize how limiting Initiative and cool downs between ability uses is.

Assuming you mean thief, thief is quite powerful, and saying their initiative is limiting is a joke. Most of their hardest hitting skills can be spammed in quick order, then they have several utilities to gain initiative back, so no, its not limiting. Initiative cost is a big reason why thief is too strong atm.

Sleepy.2647:

MeGaZlo.9516:

You trying to deny the obvious, explaining that with your sense of time?
A fact is a fact. By the way, do not forget to consider the fact that the shortbow – the most powerful ranger weapon. But thief’s weapons… well… all good.

Yes, i’m trying to deny the obvious, that your DPS test only exist in your imagination, as i said in theory that might work wonders.

And it’s sad that you think the biggest DPS/burst ranger has is shortbow, that’s probably why you hate ranger so much.

On a side note, i didn’t imagine these 5-8 seconds, i actually timed it with a chronometer. But hey, i guess people should be really happy with your thief since you can use two skills and autoattacks at the same time…seems scary…

Take it easy. If you understand something in the calculation of damage, you would know such a thing as a cycle and rotation. Ranger have not got it. He has only one ability. Thief with guns holding permanent 10% vulner (causing it with abilities with 2k damage) nearly every ~10 sec deals 5-8k damage in 1.3/4 sec. And only between these use autoattack. Ranger spam only “one”. So from here, the double difference.

Maxzero.4032:

Don’t be too hard on him. He is not the first person to look at a Rogue talents and say “OMG so powerful!”

It’s only when you actually play a Rogue for sometime that you realize how limiting Initiative and cool downs between ability uses is.

I’m just trying to explain from where the thief have twice more damage than the ranger, to the man who calculates the damage from assassination time of mobs dying from five hits.
I myself prefer the necromancer. Or engineer.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Maxzero.4032:

Sleepy.2647:

MeGaZlo.9516:

You trying to deny the obvious, explaining that with your sense of time?
A fact is a fact. By the way, do not forget to consider the fact that the shortbow – the most powerful ranger weapon. But thief’s weapons… well… all good.

Yes, i’m trying to deny the obvious, that your DPS test only exist in your imagination, as i said in theory that might work wonders.

And it’s sad that you think the biggest DPS/burst ranger has is shortbow, that’s probably why you hate ranger so much.

On a side note, i didn’t imagine these 5-8 seconds, i actually timed it with a chronometer. But hey, i guess people should be really happy with your thief since you can use two skills and autoattacks at the same time…seems scary…

Don’t be too hard on him. He is not the first person to look at a Rogue and say “OMG so powerful.”

It’s only when you actually play a Rogue for sometime that you realize how limiting Initiative and cool downs between ability uses is.

Assuming you mean thief, thief is quite powerful, and saying their initiative is limiting is a joke. Most of their hardest hitting skills can be spammed in quick order, then they have several utilities to gain initiative back, so no, its not limiting. Initiative cost is a big reason why thief is too strong atm.

Yes Thief, wrong game.

Yes it is limiting. Thief is one of the worst (if not the worst) sustained DPS classes going around.

Outside of ‘Roll for Initiative’ you are relying on Opportunist/Quick Pockets/Hastened Replenishment (and two of those are GM traits). It’s just not enough regen to keep up.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Take it easy. If you understand something in the calculation of damage, you would know such a thing as a cycle and rotation. Ranger have not got it. He has only one ability. Thief with guns holding permanent 10% vulnerabiliti (causing it with abilities with 2k damage) nearly every ~10 sec deals 5-8k damage in 1.3/4 sec. And only between these use autoattack. Ranger spam only “one”. So from here, the double difference.

If you actually played ranger (which i doubt), you would know that ranger has better bursts than shortbow autoattack. If you combine shortbow with other weapons like sword or longbow your DPS will be MUCH higher in PvE.
However, if thief uses all the initiative points with the first weapon, you can’t switch and use again your burst…so what can a thief spam exactly? The biggest DPS source thief has in PvE is s/p to begin with, and you certainly can’t use glass cannon build for that.

Keep your theorycrafting, but it won’t become real. I’m starting to doubt you have all classes at 80 as you claim (maybe in WvW).

MeGaZlo.9516:

Take it easy. If you understand something in the calculation of damage, you would know such a thing as a cycle and rotation. Ranger have not got it. He has only one ability. Thief with guns holding permanent 10% vulnerabiliti (causing it with abilities with 2k damage) nearly every ~10 sec deals 5-8k damage in 1.3/4 sec. And only between these use autoattack. Ranger spam only “one”. So from here, the double difference.

Are you saying that just because thief can use two skills in a rotation he does twice as much damage?

Because that’s very very very wrong.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Maxzero.4032:

Don’t be too hard on him. He is not the first person to look at a Rogue talents and say “OMG so powerful!”

It’s only when you actually play a Rogue for sometime that you realize how limiting Initiative and cool downs between ability uses is.

I’m just trying to explain from where the thief have twice more damage than the ranger, to the man who calculates the damage from assassination time of mobs dying from five hits.
I myself prefer the necromancer. Or engineer.

But the thing is you are wrong. A Thief can burst better. That’s about it. If you are trying to say the Thief has better sustained DPS then a Ranger (especially once you head into 15-20s and over) then you frankly have no idea what you are talking about.

Sleepy.2647:

MeGaZlo.9516:

Take it easy. If you understand something in the calculation of damage, you would know such a thing as a cycle and rotation. Ranger have not got it. He has only one ability. Thief with guns holding permanent 10% vulnerabiliti (causing it with abilities with 2k damage) nearly every ~10 sec deals 5-8k damage in 1.3/4 sec. And only between these use autoattack. Ranger spam only “one”. So from here, the double difference.

If you actually played ranger (which i doubt), you would know that ranger has better bursts than shortbow autoattack. If you combine shortbow with other weapons like sword or longbow your DPS will be MUCH higher in PvE.
However, if thief uses all the initiative points with the first weapon, you can’t switch and use again your burst…so what can a thief spam exactly? The biggest DPS source thief has in PvE is s/p to begin with, and you certainly can’t use glass cannon build for that.

Keep your theorycrafting, but it won’t become real. I’m starting to doubt you have all classes at 80 as you claim (maybe in WvW).

Hah. If YOU actually played ranger (which i doubt), you would know that ranger HASN’T better bursts than shortbow autoattack+QZ. And thief can overdamage any ranger’s “burst” with banal dagger autoattack (~about three times)

MeGaZlo.9516:

Hah. If YOU actually played ranger (which i doubt), you would know that ranger HASN’T better bursts than shortbow autoattack+QZ.

It’s obvious you are trolling, you probably don’t have a single level 80 but oh, well…

It’s sad that people is stuck thinking shortbow + QZ does the biggest DPS, it “maybe”, just “maybe” did before the QZ nerf, but now it’s quite pointless to use QZ (quickness in general) with shortbow.

Maxzero.4032:

But the thing is you are wrong. A Thief can burst better. That’s about it. If you are trying to say the Thief has better sustained DPS then a Ranger (especially once you head into 15-20s and over) then you frankly have no idea what you are talking about.

I believe he can. Especially if you experiment with trickery line. Not the best, but certainly better than the ranger. In any case, untill there is no damagemeters dps can be found only by adding 100,500 numbers from combat log. And I’m too lazy to do that.

Sleepy.2647:

MeGaZlo.9516:

Hah. If YOU actually played ranger (which i doubt), you would know that ranger HASN’T better bursts than shortbow autoattack+QZ.

It’s obvious you are trolling, you probably don’t have a single level 80 but oh, well…

It’s sad that people is stuck thinking shortbow + QZ does the biggest DPS, it “maybe”, just “maybe” did before the QZ nerf, but now it’s quite pointless to use QZ (quickness in general) with shortbow.

You catch me! I was wrong! Now rangers have not burst at all. You’re right. I bark up the wrong tree. I am in tears. You win.

Seriously. Do you really believe that the ranger can overdamage… anyone? Do you have someone other than ranger?

Keep trolling, you should post that screenshot with all the classes at level 80 geared for dungeons as you claim

Sleepy.2647:

Sdric.8526:

With pistols they have a DPS more than twice as high as a Shortbow can deal which was already stated and proved in several other posts within this topic.

Proved by who? By two screenshots comparing two chars with not the stated gear/traits one using autoattack and the other one using two skills or by theorycrafting “DPS” where downtimes are not added into the calculation? DPS is harder to calculate than that.

Since thief is so great having such an insane amount of damage and survivality, we should move this conversation to the thief forum, i’m sure they will agree with it and would probably make them stop asking for PvE buffs.

In fact, since they do more than twice the DPS we do (meaning they do more DPS than many other classes) we should make a petition to improve rangers DPS by 100%…let’s send them this petition, it would make me happy to have ranger damage increased by 100%.

I already said it and I say it again.
I broke down the damage from the screens taking casting time and everything else into account.
You keep ignoring the maths I do, well actually I did it several times just for you.

I seriously don’t know why you keep ignoring / “overreading it”.

Is it so difficult to accept you’re wrong?
I have yet to see you doing maths and proving me wrong.
I asked several times for it, each time you made up ~numbers in your head without any prove.

I also don’t get why you’re being sarcastic about moving to the Thief forum:
If there is a problem one has to call it by its name.
Ignoring a problem never has been a solution.

Slowly I get the feeling that you’re actually no Ranger but a Thief who’s afraid of being nerfed.

+Nobody has ever said Ranger DPS has to be increased by 100%, why do you keep exaggerating like that?
Who is that irony going to help?

All we Rangers ask for is a serious discussion, why do you keep ridiculing this topic?

What maths? I already took down your screenshots with arguments. Maths it’s not saying you do a unload in 1.5 seconds for 8k+ damage as if you could do 8k damage EVERY 1.5 seconds, you even used Assassin’s Signet to boost the damage to 8k.
Even “if” you could spam unload it wouln’t be 8k every 1.5 sec, first…because you don’t have assassin’s signet every 1.5 sec, and second…because even if you spam unload it won’t be every 1.5 sec, there are downtimes for skill casting, skill animations, and ping response.

Want me to repeat again what i said about the “troll” screenshots? The ranger had above 200 condition damage in that build and over 16k HP probably near 17k HP, where is the berseker glass cannon part on that?

I have to be sarcastic because it’s actually funny to read such things like “thief has more than twice the DPS ranger has” or people calling “maths” or “calculations” to such things, i’ve never been good at maths but that’s beyond a simple mistake.

Sleepy.2647:

Keep trolling, you should post that screenshot with all the classes at level 80 geared for dungeons as you claim

Ranger is currently cond. spec’d so his base values are lower.
But you only asked for gear screens.

I find it sad that you accuse everybody who isn’t your opinion of trolling, while we have yet to see any maths or screens by you.

E/: I’ll add another 2 from my Warrior, don’t have weapon Sigils yet. Still just look at armor, health – and skill damage. Also, as you can see, I have no Back upgrade yet.

E/: Just checked it it. That Ranger build was 20power/20preci /20 pet (dunno were the last 10 point were in)
My Thief was 0/20/10/20/20 (Signet= Ini, Stealth=Heal=Ini, Ini regen, roll cooldown-20% = ini)
And As I already said, I only had 1 rune = 10% less damage on my Thief.
So please stop mixing different topics and pictures.
If I have one build in another screen that doesn’t mean I have the same in another.
Don’t draw conclusions from 2 different topics.

Are you guys still arguing about the thief vs ranger damage?
Holy…
It doesn’t freaking matter what class’ damage you put up against rangers, ranger will always be kitten poor compared to it.

Stop accusing him of lies you delusionals. Ranger is worst and will stay worst.

I think it is useless to prove anything to him, until he tries himself and satisfied. People who dispute with the facts, usually dispute only for the dispute.

Sdric.8526:

Ranger is currently cond. spec’d so his base values are lower.
But you only asked for gear screens.

I find it sad that you accuse everybody who isn’t your opinion of trolling, while we have yet to see any maths or screens by you.

E/: I’ll add another 2 from my Warrior, don’t have weapon Sigils yet. Still just look at armor, health – and skill damage. Also, as you can see, I have no Back upgrade yet.

I didn’t talk about you in that post but about Megazlo.
And that’s more likely the build you were running in that screenshot because the HP fits, and probably the condition damage also fits, and not berseker build as you said. You have 300 less attack and probably less critical damage.

Arekai.5698:

Are you guys still arguing about the thief vs ranger damage?
Holy…
It doesn’t freaking matter what class’ damage you put up against rangers, ranger will always be kitten poor compared to it.

Stop accusing him of lies you delusionals. Ranger is worst and will stay worst.

Would you mind telling all of the people I regularly kill that rangers are the worst? They never seem to believe me for some reason… Maybe I should send them one of these screenshots showing how there is no possible way that I could have done enough damage to kill them. Or maybe some of the ludicrously incomplete “maths” will get the message through to them. I tell you, I’m out of ideas. It seems that when you kill someone they just won’t believe that they’re not dead. Weird right?

Sleepy.2647:

What maths? I already took down your screenshots with arguments. Maths it’s not saying you do a unload in 1.5 seconds for 8k+ damage as if you could do 8k damage EVERY 1.5k seconds, you even used Assassin’s Signet to boost the damage to 8k.
Even “if” you could spam unload it wouln’t be 8k every 1.5 sec, first…because you don’t have assassin’s signet every 1.5 sec, and second…because even if you spam unload it won’t be every 1.5 sec, there are downtimes for skill casting, skill animations, and ping response.

Want me to repeat again the “troll” screenshots? The ranger had above 200 condition damage in that build and over 16k HP probably near 17k HP, where is the berseker glass cannon part on that?

I have to be sarcastic because it’s actually funny to read such things like “thief has more than twice the DPS ranger has”.

1.) Assassin’s Signet wasn’t actived, it was used before

2.) I say it for approximately the 7th time in this topic: I have 3 int regen, each signet gives me 2 more int. Theft and “Rollf f. I” give me initiative allowing me to spam unload for 35 seconds without a break. Each unload furthermore has a 0,7*9=0,63% chance to regain ini. If you have to dodge roll in between attack (which is more than likely) that times also recharges ini.

3.) My bleed in that screen dealt so much damage since I had several stacks of might on me upon apply. Upon taking the screen it was gone

4.) “Downtimes for casting, Ping response.” Stop making up things. You’re acting like pistols had several server issues which shortbows don’t have…
There is a queue, if a skill is pressed while another one still is active it’ll chain into it.

P.S. the casting time is 1,5s … thats why I used it for my maths, as I used correct 0,520s for shortbow attacks and (1,5/1,56)*3 as a multiplier to norm shortbow attacks to unload casting time.

You keep saying I would wrong, but all you do is spilling out lame accusations.
Always being aggressive to push me on the defense.
That’s the kind of manipulation you use when you don’t have arguments or facts on your side.

Your bad I did my homework and proved everything you said wrong.
I don’t wanna spin in circles.

Where is your maths?

There is actually a trait that reduces cooldown by 20%, so you DID actually use it as the timing fits completely. Keep it up, it’s fun to catch lies

Casting time has NOTHING to do with skill animation, you have no idea what you are talking about. For example several ranger skills have 1/4 cast time, that doesn’t mean that after 0.25 seconds i will use anything else right away…the skill animation needs to end first.

You don’t do unload every 1.5 seconds because that’s only the casting time. In 45 seconds you won’t use 30 unloads even if you had enough points to spam it, so what is the comparison for other than trolling? It’s just a screenshot about burst, not DPS, no maths involved about DPS. If you make a calculation about Damage Per Second you can’t include on it just what it’s in your favour to make a point stronger. To begin with you need to find the real timing for unload granted that in 4.5 seconds you won’t be able to use unload three times just because the casting time is 1.5 seconds. (it’s actually 1 3/4 so 1.75), and then calculate how many unloads you can actually do on average over 1 minute to make it any realistic.

I already posted a screen about the bleed damage, with 100 condition damage and 7 might stacks it hits for 60, you had 5 stacks hitting for 65. And the screenshot you just posted shows that your ranger wasn’t berseker glass cannon but some sort of weird build with berseker gear (some, since the HP is confusing) and nature/wilderness traits? 16k+ HP, probably well over 20 points into wilderness as well.

There is no manipulation, as i said the first time, the screenshot spoke by itself. If you had a proper berseker build you could have boosted the DPS, not the damage, by 500-1k easily, and including at least a low DD pet to balance even more the result. It’s unrealistic that ranger won’t use the pet because 90% of the time pets do damage…be it a tanky pet, a ranged pet or a DD pet, more or less damage but they are there in the majority of fights. I don’t know about the rest, but i switch pets depending on what i’m going to find next. If i know that my pet will die fast in melee obviously i’m not going to use a melee pet, we have a variety of pets for a reason.

Sleepy.2647:

I had in mind that AS had 35 secs cooldown, so yeah you are probably right about that one (i don’t know if there is any trait that actually lowers signets CD for thief).

You don’t do unload every 1.5 seconds because that’s only the casting time. In 45 seconds you won’t use 30 unloads even if you had enough points to spam it, so what is the comparison for other than trolling? It’s just a screenshot about burst, not DPS, no maths involved about DPS.

I already posted a screen about the bleed damage, with 100 condition damage and 7 might stacks it hits for 60, you had 5 stacks hitting for 65. And the screenshot you just posted shows that your ranger wasn’t berseker glass cannon but some sort of weird build with berseker gear (some, since the HP is confusing) and nature/wilderness traits? 16k+ HP, probably well over 20 points into wilderness as well.

There is no manipulation, as i said the first time, the screenshot spoke by itself. If you had a proper berseker build you could have boosted the DPS, not the damage, by 500-1k easily, and including at least a low DD pet to balance even more the result. It’s unrealistic that ranger won’t use the pet because 95% of the times pets do damage…be it a tanky pet, a ranged pet or a DD pet, more or less damage but they are there in the majority of fights.

You just find fault with insignificant details. Even if we suppose that he is spamming unload for 8000 every 2 sec, and the ranger makes 3 shots per second, we find that 120,000 damage with anload for 30 sec, and 60,000 with ranger’s autoattacks. Yes, the numbers far-fetched. But you realize that 120.000>60.000, right? What pet do you prefer?

I love my Ranger. I just wish there was more of him to love.

MeGaZlo.9516:

What pet do you prefer?

I prefer the real stadistic, not the fake one. Make a real one, then we will talk about numbers, so far all the “maths” and “calculations” posted were total aberrations.

Maxzero.4032:

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Maxzero.4032:

Sleepy.2647:

MeGaZlo.9516:

You trying to deny the obvious, explaining that with your sense of time?
A fact is a fact. By the way, do not forget to consider the fact that the shortbow – the most powerful ranger weapon. But thief’s weapons… well… all good.

Yes, i’m trying to deny the obvious, that your DPS test only exist in your imagination, as i said in theory that might work wonders.

And it’s sad that you think the biggest DPS/burst ranger has is shortbow, that’s probably why you hate ranger so much.

On a side note, i didn’t imagine these 5-8 seconds, i actually timed it with a chronometer. But hey, i guess people should be really happy with your thief since you can use two skills and autoattacks at the same time…seems scary…

Don’t be too hard on him. He is not the first person to look at a Rogue and say “OMG so powerful.”

It’s only when you actually play a Rogue for sometime that you realize how limiting Initiative and cool downs between ability uses is.

Assuming you mean thief, thief is quite powerful, and saying their initiative is limiting is a joke. Most of their hardest hitting skills can be spammed in quick order, then they have several utilities to gain initiative back, so no, its not limiting. Initiative cost is a big reason why thief is too strong atm.

Yes Thief, wrong game.

Yes it is limiting. Thief is one of the worst (if not the worst) sustained DPS classes going around.

Outside of ‘Roll for Initiative’ you are relying on Opportunist/Quick Pockets/Hastened Replenishment (and two of those are GM traits). It’s just not enough regen to keep up.

Thief is also about managing initiative not just spamming crap. I rarely run out of initiative with my thief because I get some fast burst off, and slow it down, go in for seconds.

Yup, still LOVE my ranger. Getting it to work well, bugs and all. Looking forward to the buffs which will only make me stronger (even if they are minor tweaks. Fixes are still fixes {except those times those “fixes” are not})

MeGaZlo.9516:

Sleepy.2647:

Jay.3284:

@Sleepy

Thieves bring much more to a dungeon than Rangers…

For example….? I can only think about stealth and getting a single mob from a pack sometimes.

Thief in dungeons is like ranger’s pets, in theory they are awesome, in reality…not so much.

It’s a matter of taste bringing a class over another one.

Perfect damage, mass poison buffs, perma-blind controll, sword-pistol ever-evade tanking… Well… many different interesting things.

A friend of mine plays a Thief and that blind ability in dungeons is crazy awesome.

Sleepy.2647:

MeGaZlo.9516:

What pet do you prefer?

I prefer the real stadistic, not the fake one. Make a real one, then we will talk about numbers, so far all the “maths” and “calculations” posted were total aberrations.

“Real” – is the one that does not contradict your words? It does not exist. I’m sorry.

Sleepy still on in his delusion thinking that Rangers are good, let alone efficient compared to anything else.

Fun times

Rangers are good, period. That doesn’t change the fact that they need fixes more or less than every other class.

The real “delusion” will probably go away on 15th when the patch is released.

Sleepy.2647:

Rangers are good, period. That doesn’t change the fact that they need fixes more or less than every other class.

The real “delusion” will probably go away on 15th when the patch is released.

What aspects are they good in?

Rangers are good, period. That doesn’t change the fact that they need fixes more or less than every other class.

The real “delusion” will probably go away on 15th when the patch is released.

Funny that someone like you who openly says that Ranger is fine talks about delusional.
The patch will do nothing and you will go on with your remorse leveling a Ranger to 80, all that time you could’ve spend to actually level a good class.

They don’t need fixes, they need a whole revamp of all traits and skills and the pet system.
I wouldn’t come back to my Ranger if they gave them 100% more damage, it’s still boring and monotonous like hell. Well even then any other class still does more damage but you catch my drift.

To name a few…decent sustained DPS, AoE condition removal, perma slow AoE kitting ability (14 seconds chill -66% skill recharge every 24 seconds) , decent survivality even when being glass cannon, entangle is awesome in PvE…what else do you want?

Sure some classes can do one of these things BETTER, but they can’t do all of them at the same time without kittening themselfs in one way or another.

Arekai.5698:

Funny that someone like you who openly says that Ranger is fine talks about delusional.
The patch will do nothing and you will go on with your remorse leveling a Ranger to 80, all that time you could’ve spend to actually level a good class.

They don’t need fixes, they need a whole revamp of all traits and skills and the pet system.
I wouldn’t come back to my Ranger if they gave them 100% more damage, it’s still boring and monotonous like hell. Well even then any other class still does more damage but you catch my drift.

No one said the class is “fine”, this is what the whiners can’t get through their skull, and by what you wrote you don’t like Ranger so what is the deal? There are another 7 classes.

I know the patch will do something, but something i expect…what i don’t expect is to turn ranger into a super killing machine as some people want.

Sleepy.2647:

To name a few…decent sustained DPS, AoE condition removal, perma slow AoE kitting ability (14 seconds chill -66% skill recharge every 24 seconds) , decent survivality even when being glass cannon, entangle is awesome in PvE…what else do you want?

Sure some classes can do one of these things BETTER, but they can’t do all of them at the same time without kittening themselfs in one way or another.

-What sustained DPS? All other classes do this better than the ranger…
-AoE condition removal? You mean the healing skill that limits your movement if you want conditions removed, or the 60 second cool down signet?
-All classes can kite, and most don’t need to because their DPS doesn’t really warrant it
-Glass cannon Rangers have about the same damage as a class spec’ed into survivability/support with a bit of DPS
-Entangle is consistent but good in certain aspects

Your last quote goes for the ranger also, if you haven’t realized…

Sleepy, people aren’t concerned with Ranger’s PvE aspects. Leveling a ranger to 80 in PvE is stupid easy, and nobody is asking for it to be easier. We are concerned with PvP balance. If you’re not 80 yet, or are arguing about our PvE ability, then you’ve missed the point.

Nobody wants the class to be a “killing machine”, we just want to be brought up to par with the “balanced” classes. Warriors (a tank class) out DPS at range right now by a large margin. Thieves (who should be our counterpart) out-DPS us by a HUGE margin and have better utility. Mesmers and Engi’s out-DPS us and have way better utility.

I think I speak for the majority of end-game rangers when I say we just need a little love. If we hated the class, we wouldn’t have waited 6 painful weeks to learn our fate.

Jay.3284:

-What sustained DPS? All other classes do this better than the ranger…
-AoE condition removal? You mean the healing skill that limits your movement if you want conditions removed, or the 60 second cool down signet?
-All classes can kite, and most don’t need to because their DPS doesn’t really warrant it
-Glass cannon Rangers have about the same damage as a class spec’ed into survivability/support with a bit of DPS
-Entangle is consistent but good in certain aspects

Your last quote goes for the ranger also, if you haven’t realized…

The same whine comparison can be said about many other classes by that reasoning, so let’s just play warrior/guardian since everything else is pretty much…you know…useless.

@neverborne I know the state of Ranger in sPvP, no one said ranger was great in sPvP.
But the fact is that this game is not only about sPvP, that’s a minor part of the game and it’s also a fact that a good amount of the people who dislike Ranger it’s because of how they are currently for sPvP. When i write PvE i mean PvE/Dungeons, not leveling the leveling phase. The entire arguing about DPS was about PvE/Dungeons in case you didn’t read through all posts.

GW2 is not just sPvP, and that’s what some people should also understand. I play PvE, WvW and sPvP (last one not so much). And changes/fixes sure will come, but most likely not in the shape of putting us to the level of warrior/thief burst but instead nerfing theirs.