Guild Wars 2

Bump #teamsmokecloud

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Thanks, Irenio; I really appreciate you looking into this. A quick note, though: The majority of the pets actually already have their most damaging attacks as passives — it’s the tactical abilities that are ordinarily on F2, and that’s the way it should be. For the most part, the few pets who have essentially nothing but more damage on F2 are mostly under-used, because they lack effective utility. I can’t see any reason to nerf Smoke Assault any more just because it’s going to go into the same slot that wolves (for instance) use for a highly-damaging, long-duration knockdown, and Drakes for a highly-damaging AoE blast finisher.

F2 should be for tactical choices: Control, buffs, fields, finishers, etc. Pure damage should remain on passives — and ideally remain as the first skill the pet auto-uses upon entering combat, like it was before and is on most pets, which allows us to still control it fairly effectively with a little extra effort and skill.

Thanks again for your time and effort. And also for the OOC degen removal for AF; CAF feels MUCH better, now!

Nike.2631:

Wow. Because if the WHOLE CLASS hinged on one f2 skill, then that’s pretty much proof positive that skill is busted. Thanks for clarifying that this absolutely needed to get changed, likely for the weaker.

Man, think of all those poor useless rangers out there who don’t even have the stupid pet.

Tigaseye.2047:

No.

That is not how this works.

Evidently it is .

If the whole class hinged on that F2 skill, that is pretty much proof positive that the whole class is in desperate need of attention.

Broken, out of scale skill is broken, no matter where the class’s baseline is floating in the stack. You see the same sort of obsessing over the grossly overpowered skill-of-the-month on EVERY profession. If anything, leaving one in play makes the situation worse for under-performing classes because you start getting some numbers that show maybe the class is doing ok, when its actually just one skill everyone is gravitating to because it’s the singular best option available.

It doesn’t mean you take, even the very little that Ranger has (or did have), away until you can do that.

You don’t let them start building a dependency on something you know has to be trimmed, either.

But mostly I was mocking the preposterous melodrama being dished in the post I quoted.

Nike.2631:

Nike.2631:

Wow. Because if the WHOLE CLASS hinged on one f2 skill, then that’s pretty much proof positive that skill is busted. Thanks for clarifying that this absolutely needed to get changed, likely for the weaker.

Man, think of all those poor useless rangers out there who don’t even have the stupid pet.

Tigaseye.2047:

No.

That is not how this works.

Evidently it is .

If the whole class hinged on that F2 skill, that is pretty much proof positive that the whole class is in desperate need of attention.

Broken, out of scale skill is broken, no matter where the class’s baseline is floating in the stack. You see the same sort of obsessing over the grossly overpowered skill-of-the-month on EVERY profession. If anything, leaving one in play makes the situation worse for under-performing classes because you start getting some numbers that show maybe the class is doing ok, when its actually just one skill everyone is gravitating to because it’s the singular best option available.

It doesn’t mean you take, even the very little that Ranger has (or did have), away until you can do that.

You don’t let them start building a dependency on something you know has to be trimmed, either.

But mostly I was mocking the preposterous melodrama being dished in the post I quoted.

What do you consider the grossly overpowered flavor of the month stuff on every class? The only thing I think is lame atm is Tempest shocking aura spam and air overload. Other stuff seems decently balanced with some classes needed to be brought up to par.

Nike.2631:

But mostly I was mocking the preposterous melodrama being dished in the post I quoted.

So you’re quite mediocre at mockering.

I didn’t mean this specific skill – I talked about everything that happened to ranger during last years. You may regard my thoughts as “prepostreous melodrama” but this is just how I feel after being gutted for 3 years. And finally when I thought that Ranger will have a decent place in the game – they gutted it again. With this dumb pet, with silly nerfs to CA, with nerfs to traits and nerfs that are to come.

BTW:
this is a quote from reaper forum, concerning the only nerf reapers had. DEV speaking.

To provide some context on this change:
We felt that Blighter’s Boon was providing too much survivability, especially with the amount of boon output that Heralds and Tempests can provide. (This is especially true in WvW and large PvE Zergs). I did like the interaction this trait had with your allies, but boon application from allies is too broad of a category for us to reasonably balance in all modes of the game.
We considered a lot of other possibilities for this skill including adding an ICD, limiting the procs to specific boons, limiting the number of procs from allies, but the majority of these types of fixes ended up taking agency and control away from the reaper which we felt wasn’t optimal.
Ultimately we felt this change helped to make the trait more specific to some builds rather than the best trait in all situations.
EDIT: It seems like there is some confusion about the reasons behind the change. Even though I use PvE and WvW as an example, we think it’s providing too much in all areas of the game, PvP included.

Do u feel any difference between this and the “investigating”?

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

You can balance (nerf) Smoke Assault appropriately, the smoke field on demand is what we’re asking for.

Even a 30% damage reduction and removal of might on hit on smoke assault is fine by me. Although, I expect some additional on-use effect for the Smoke Cloud skill (maybe a 3s blind ON use ?)

Just remove the combo field from Smoke Cloud and call it a day.

Scrimschaw.5784:

Orion.3812:

F2 shouldn’t be about which ability is strongest. F2 should be about which ability benefits most from being manually controlled.

Thank you, Orion. This is exactly what the f2 should be, but often isn’t.

Actually which skill benefits most PLUS is not reliable to use by artificial intelligence controlled pet.

Holland.9351:

Just remove the combo field from Smoke Cloud and call it a day.

How about we add the combo field to smoke assault instead? And make it so if you use it out of combat, it just drops the smoke field?

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

You can balance (nerf) Smoke Assault appropriately, the smoke field on demand is what we’re asking for.

Even a 30% damage reduction and removal of might on hit on smoke assault is fine by me. Although, I expect some additional on-use effect for the Smoke Cloud skill (maybe a 3s blind ON use ?)

Im sorry but no. Absolutely kittening not. I don’t even care if I get moderated. That is the stupidest thing ive read.

ATM smokescale is the ONLY melee pet that can reliably keep up with and pressure targets. And for various reasons I don’t expect melee pets to get a rework any time this decade. Taking away the dmg and might on smoke assault turns this form a decent chaser pet into a BAD chaser pet. Seeing as chasing is what it seems to be designed around it thus becomes a bad pet. I DON’T want that to happen to smokescale. Especially sense the wyverns are currently so kitten SLOW.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

PLZ don’t change, lots of rangers like it the way it is now.

LughLongArm.5460:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

PLZ don’t change, lots of rangers like it the way it is now.

Who is that lots?
I and 99% of other rangers want a skill that would make quality of ranger better, having F2 smoke assault does bring nothing but burst. Ranger need fields on demand as frequent as they were before the swap! I don’t know why we don’t just swap back and it’s done. Dmg is already nerfed and weak, and that’s it…

Tiger can hit 4k dmg, and no one says anything. My topic is clearly showing how little people know about pets.

Fluffball.8307:

Random tail swipe isn’t random at all which is why people use it as a blast finisher. We’ve just learned to live with it. Ideally tail swipe and smoke assault would both be hot-keyable.

I don’t see it as replacing engis and thieves, I see it as giving us options. Smoke assault doesn’t add as many options as a smoke field does. If I can get a brutal charge to land, I follow up with a kill. If smoke assault lands, we can do the same. You can’t make impromptu use of a smoke field.

Well, we won’t really get nice things because we are Roy-gers.
I agree more than anything else that we do need access to important pet abilities. Most of them.

I personally do not mind any of those. I found use of both of them. For my current PvP build I have much more use than I could ever had with smoke field.
Vice versa – I don’t have any use of random smoke field whatsoever. The only thing that’s left to say is that this is mostly personal preference thing.

There will be people who like on demand burst and those with on demand utility.
Which of them will win – I’ll adapt. This is not so game-breaking as useless Predator’s Instinct that I haven’t seen picked by anyone ever once in my life pushing it’s way into today and keeps going on.

Firelysm.4967:

Who is that lots?
I and 99% of other rangers want a skill that would make quality of ranger better, having F2 smoke assault does bring nothing but burst. Ranger need fields on demand as frequent as they were before the swap! I don’t know why we don’t just swap back and it’s done. Dmg is already nerfed and weak, and that’s it…

Tiger can hit 4k dmg, and no one says anything. My topic is clearly showing how little people know about pets.

Usually people with more time played gather here.
… Logically people who already know what this game is about.

Well, the rest who usually do not – they like the numbers and like the on demand assault. Ever since Sick’Em was fixed after a long time – I really do like the on demand assault myself. Much more than I could before.
Yes, it cost me an on demand smoke field. Yes. That’s right. But my ranger game-style (either PvP/PvE) is not based on AoE stealth. For that I use my Engie or Mesmer. I don’t want it of selfish reasons, not because Random Smoke field is any useful.

Firelysm.4967:

LughLongArm.5460:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

PLZ don’t change, lots of rangers like it the way it is now.

Who is that lots?
I and 99% of other rangers want a skill that would make quality of ranger better, having F2 smoke assault does bring nothing but burst. Ranger need fields on demand as frequent as they were before the swap! I don’t know why we don’t just swap back and it’s done. Dmg is already nerfed and weak, and that’s it…

Tiger can hit 4k dmg, and no one says anything. My topic is clearly showing how little people know about pets.

You and the 99% of the shouters that created this post before even giving the cahnged smokecale a chance. screaming loaud doesnt make you a majority nor does it makes you right, Comparing tiger to smokescale is ridiculous. Smokscalre is a tanky pet that can survive almost everytnig with the best burst of all pets, it will always land, works with tount, great combo for might stacking with WHAO, and a takedown. I know about pets atleast as you do if not much more, I have played with tiger alot, its good but it doesnt come close to fill the smokescale role as the second hitter with burst on demand that always lands and godly survivebility. Also, the smoke fields during battle helps alot, 5 sec smoke field every 16 sec.

You and the 99% of the shouters that created this post before even giving the cahnged smokecale a chance. screaming loaud doesnt make you a majority nor does it makes you right, Comparing tiger to smokescale is ridiculous. Smokscalre is a tanky pet that can survive almost everytnig with the best burst of all pets, it will always land, works with tount, great combo for might stacking with WHAO, and a takedown. I know about pets atleast as you do if not much more, I have played with tiger alot, its good but it doesnt come close to fill the smokescale role as the second hitter with burst on demand that always lands and godly survivebility. Also, the smoke fields during battle helps alot, 5 sec smoke field every 16 sec.

You do realize that you just made a good case to nerf smoke assault more.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

I’d be perfectly OK with this. The smoke field made the pet.

The shortened CA uptime and smoke field change is what caused me to shelve my druid… didn’t feel fun anymore.

Now if we could have a CA form that felt more readily available (even with nerfed healing), that would be great…

kevvy.5081:

You and the 99% of the shouters that created this post before even giving the cahnged smokecale a chance. screaming loaud doesnt make you a majority nor does it makes you right, Comparing tiger to smokescale is ridiculous. Smokscalre is a tanky pet that can survive almost everytnig with the best burst of all pets, it will always land, works with tount, great combo for might stacking with WHAO, and a takedown. I know about pets atleast as you do if not much more, I have played with tiger alot, its good but it doesnt come close to fill the smokescale role as the second hitter with burst on demand that always lands and godly survivebility. Also, the smoke fields during battle helps alot, 5 sec smoke field every 16 sec.

You do realize that you just made a good case to nerf smoke assault more.

Not really, the F2 got a long CD , that’s why I called it a second hitter. I use it after a raven F2 to put a lot of pressure. Also I said its got a role, I didn’t say its the best pet always. For exampke, Tiger can be amazing on GS remorseless build(hit bash+F2+maul). Bristleback can be amazing in might stacking condi build. Put him on a fire field with 25might , F2 and c what happens.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

lol…what’s to investigate?

you already nerfed smoke assault significantly (50% dmg reduction) and then made the pets smoke field uncontrollable, thus making it unusable in any thing other than solo roaming (since it will overwrite group-coordinated fields such as water and fire).

these types of changes you guys are making are just absurdly illogical.

i literally sigh every “new build in 10 minutes” notification…..because each one bring a “bull in the china store” nerf to ranger or druid.

why are other classes “shaved”, while rangers are decapitated?

kitten.

Holland.9351:

Just remove the combo field from Smoke Cloud and call it a day.

May as well delete the pet if you do that. The whole reason this thread exists is for the on-demand combo field.

AgitatedFox.5287:

Holland.9351:

Just remove the combo field from Smoke Cloud and call it a day.

May as well delete the pet if you do that. The whole reason this thread exists is for the on-demand combo field.

this.
just delete the pet if there is not going to be an on demand smoke field.

So you already have what you want. You just have to pretend it has been deleted.

LughLongArm.5460:

Firelysm.4967:

LughLongArm.5460:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

PLZ don’t change, lots of rangers like it the way it is now.

Who is that lots?
I and 99% of other rangers want a skill that would make quality of ranger better, having F2 smoke assault does bring nothing but burst. Ranger need fields on demand as frequent as they were before the swap! I don’t know why we don’t just swap back and it’s done. Dmg is already nerfed and weak, and that’s it…

Tiger can hit 4k dmg, and no one says anything. My topic is clearly showing how little people know about pets.

You and the 99% of the shouters that created this post before even giving the cahnged smokecale a chance. screaming loaud doesnt make you a majority nor does it makes you right, Comparing tiger to smokescale is ridiculous. Smokscalre is a tanky pet that can survive almost everytnig with the best burst of all pets, it will always land, works with tount, great combo for might stacking with WHAO, and a takedown. I know about pets atleast as you do if not much more, I have played with tiger alot, its good but it doesnt come close to fill the smokescale role as the second hitter with burst on demand that always lands and godly survivebility. Also, the smoke fields during battle helps alot, 5 sec smoke field every 16 sec.

1) Sadly you are trying to demand an Smoke assault on demand F2, while we already have that if pet is used correctly and you can still have smoke field on F2. But as it looks you did not play ranger long enough to know the basic tricks about pet.

2). Comparing tiger to smokescale is a very viable argument. While tiger is also tanky, and while tiger provides 2x more burst on demand then smokescale i can laugh to further of your comments that have no technical coverage.

3) you try to make me look bad when i clearly shout and i am MAD and i admit it:) But that doesn’t prove anything. While I CAN cover my arguments with data, and experience, while your arguments have no ground, no data, no wider view on class and specifically nothing to bring to the class. Every thing you demand is already there. Just stop trolling because you make damage to the ranger community.

4)

I know about pets atleast as you do if not much more, I have played with tiger alot,

Bravo But do you really know that much? Or you simply say it to make it more verbal? Do you even hear yourself? You proclaim yourself more experienced with tiger then me, and expansion is out since 23th oct. I personally hit 4,2k hours on all my rangers over two accounts, you maybe know a lot, I don’t know you, but you can’t come on forum, and proclaim yourself a smarter ranger then some one that surprisingly is dedicated to this class more then 99% of people to the game.

I’m tired to argue with people that don’t look wider on the class…
Majority of GW2 community search for this kind of setup:
Zerker, dps pet, dps weapon, no survivability, no sustain, dps dps dps… and then u die before you even start the fight, and few moments later we see rent posts on forum about broken stuff..

Elitists make people see wrong picture, but when you get covered by data you get surprised and you can’t believe that you lived a lie.

Holland.9351:

So you already have what you want. You just have to pretend it has been deleted.

Cookie Holland! Take one now!

Firelysm.4967:

snip

There’s only one flaw in what you are saying.
… You can control a smoke field if you can use your pet correctly just the way you can control the assault.

There’s no difference.
The difference is that you can use field out of combat and assault you cannot.
From this perspective it makes better use of having the field.

From PvP where we Rangers have most of our DPS stable – having an on demand burst is just as important. Some players will have different play-styles and search for key elements somewhere else and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Having your pet missing the right time for assault can mean loss of 4K burst. And for that I’m fine having it the current way. If we get smoke-scale, I’ll change my builds so that I maybe get to play around blinding styles more.
I’m fine with both of them and both make sense.

From PvE it doesn’t matter at all because it’s not your job to bring smoke field so you just might have it random and you want the pet to use assault as often as possible – so having it on random makes no difference as having it on demand.

All this topic is a pure matter of crossed opinions. Both are correct.
If you want to argument it with something solid you have to state statistical amounts of players (newbies included) or support your statements somewhat like I did
(out of combat use that promotes having on demand smoke field).

I don’t understand why you are all arguing with each other when we know what the solution is. It’s the same one that has been brought up repeatedly for years.

Anet needs to rework pet controls so we have access to their other skills

This is something that needs to kittening happen now. The ranger has been in a bad spot for years but the past couple of months with the half finished elite spec and the constant nerfs have been brutal. Stop coming up with excuses like you are too busy, or it would be too complicated for rangers. You will always be too busy if you don’t make it a priority, and after 3+ years it kittening needs to be a priority.

This is our class mechanic, if every time an ele tried swapping attunements it delayed for 3 seconds and then picked an attunement at random would you leave that broken for 3 years?
If every warrior burst skill rooted them in place so they missed a moving target would you leave that alone for 3 years?
Why the hell is it okay to leave rangers broken this long?

Tragic Positive.9356

From PvE it doesn’t matter at all because it’s not your job to bring smoke field so you just might have it random and you want the pet to use assault as often as possible – so having it on random makes no difference as having it on demand.

It may not be the ranger’s “job” to bring smoke fields in PvE, but it’s certainly not appreciated when the pet decides to make that its job … right on top of a strategically placed fire or water field.

While I can appreciate a PvPer’s desire to manually control the Smoke Assault cooldown for burst, if that’s to be the ability bound to F2, the smoke field really needs to be replaced with something else entirely. While on-demand burst may be preferable in PvP, having a zero-damage (read: “dps-lowering”) skill that interferes with other combo fields is an absolute deal breaker in PvE.

The smokescale is just plain unusable in PvE in any group setting with the smoke field as an AI auto-cast ability.

Geshque.1326:

Nike.2631:

But mostly I was mocking the preposterous melodrama being dished in the post I quoted.

So you’re quite mediocre at mockering.

You’re welcome to think that. But I’m pretty sure anyone who cares about game design rather than driving a single-profession agenda had a good chuckle. Hint: if there’s white foam on your screen, you probably shouldn’t press the ‘Reply’ button.

I didn’t mean this specific skill – I talked about everything that happened to ranger during last years. You may regard my thoughts as “prepostreous melodrama” but this is just how I feel after being gutted for 3 years. And finally when I thought that Ranger will have a decent place in the game – they gutted it again. With this dumb pet, with silly nerfs to CA, with nerfs to traits and nerfs that are to come.

You’ve been here 3 years and still haven’t learned which way the wind blows?

Ranger is never going to be “good” because ranger does everything this game intends to be bad. It relies on AI, which is crap in every case. It focuses on ranged damage, which is crap for EVERY PROFESSION.

The very idea that there was one skill that somehow shined a light in the darkness should tell you that skill was grossly out of line. And after 3 years you ought to have a pretty good idea of what comes next.

I’d love to see Rangers inch up to respectability. I spent a LOT of time pitching ideas in the Ranger CDI. But a savior-pet is NOT the solution. And having one over-tuned skill get nerfed isn’t a bad thing. What Ranger needs is a lot more general improvement, not bemoaning the balance team doing part of their job.

I just want to chime in and say that I have completely changed my mind about this. I am really loving having the burst attached to f2. When I run a bunker set up I’m not looking for the smoke field, and when I’m playing more offensively I have enough stealth from other sources I’m still not looking for it.

As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, this is the mentality that is holding Ranger back. Instead of nerfing Smoke Assault, why not just buff the F2 so it blinds as well or something?

The passive skills are often far stronger than the active skills anyway and in those cases where they are, its always because there is a utility skill on the F2, exactly what a smoke field is.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.

#Teamsmokefield

F2 Smokescale is actually good do not change it for that smoke field.

Honestly pvp player

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, this is the mentality that is holding Ranger back. Instead of nerfing Smoke Assault, why not just buff the F2 so it blinds as well or something?

The passive skills are often far stronger than the active skills anyway and in those cases where they are, its always because there is a utility skill on the F2, exactly what a smoke field is.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.

1)Because is not as flexible /reliable.
2)Because smokefield F2 feels clunky with taunt.
3)Because players like to combo assault with SOTW/sicem for the extra damage, and SOTP/WHAO for might stacking.
4)Because it prevents players to try and focus fire the pet(assault can be used defensively)
5)Because it can bring the pet back on the target when pet AI get “confused” in path obstacles as such.

one of the reasons they didn change it was because since smoke assault wasnt an F2 it scaled with Sic Em and was able if you poped it along with SoW to do about 27k om mobs and about 20k something on players which for many is a insta down from a single pet ability
its the same with the bristleback in the beta hense the change I agree they should change it back BUT that mean they will have to nerf the dmg of smoke assault bu like 40-50% because it was kinda broken but so hillariusly fun to watch

however much I love smoke assault the smoke feild is so much better in EVERYway combo field and invaun on demand

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, this is the mentality that is holding Ranger back. Instead of nerfing Smoke Assault, why not just buff the F2 so it blinds as well or something?

The passive skills are often far stronger than the active skills anyway and in those cases where they are, its always because there is a utility skill on the F2, exactly what a smoke field is.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.

1)Because is not as flexible /reliable.
2)Because smokefield F2 feels clunky with taunt.
3)Because players like to combo assault with SOTW/sicem for the extra damage, and SOTP/WHAO for might stacking.
4)Because it prevents players to try and focus fire the pet(assault can be used defensively)
5)Because it can bring the pet back on the target when pet AI get “confused” in path obstacles as such.

well Smoke Assault isnt better they mostly completly ignore the pet during the 2 sec taunt now the smoke field atleast could taunt and hold

Redemer.2601:

its the same with the bristleback in the beta hense the change I agree they should change it back BUT that mean they will have to nerf the dmg of smoke assault bu like 40-50% because it was kinda broken but so hillariusly fun to watch

They already nerfed it by 50%, should they nerf it again? O.O

Redemer.2601:

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, this is the mentality that is holding Ranger back. Instead of nerfing Smoke Assault, why not just buff the F2 so it blinds as well or something?

The passive skills are often far stronger than the active skills anyway and in those cases where they are, its always because there is a utility skill on the F2, exactly what a smoke field is.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.

1)Because is not as flexible /reliable.
2)Because smokefield F2 feels clunky with taunt.
3)Because players like to combo assault with SOTW/sicem for the extra damage, and SOTP/WHAO for might stacking.
4)Because it prevents players to try and focus fire the pet(assault can be used defensively)
5)Because it can bring the pet back on the target when pet AI get “confused” in path obstacles as such.

well Smoke Assault isnt better they mostly completly ignore the pet during the 2 sec taunt now the smoke field atleast could taunt and hold

It still interrupts, set off targeting and open your foe to take good portion of the assault attack.

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, this is the mentality that is holding Ranger back. Instead of nerfing Smoke Assault, why not just buff the F2 so it blinds as well or something?

The passive skills are often far stronger than the active skills anyway and in those cases where they are, its always because there is a utility skill on the F2, exactly what a smoke field is.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.

1)Because is not as flexible /reliable.
2)Because smokefield F2 feels clunky with taunt.
3)Because players like to combo assault with SOTW/sicem for the extra damage, and SOTP/WHAO for might stacking.
4)Because it prevents players to try and focus fire the pet(assault can be used defensively)
5)Because it can bring the pet back on the target when pet AI get “confused” in path obstacles as such.

1) It is exactly as reliable as it is now, the same reliability as all other pets.
2) Can’t speak directly to this, cannot test, but feels clunky?
3) You can still do exactly that, since its the 1st skill the pet will use when entering combat, you just leave it on passive, cast the skills and send it in. It works exactly the same.
4) Smoke Field is far more defensive for both Ranger and Pet. With far more utility and intuitiveness to have control over.
5) Same as if it was skill #3.

Leaving this here in case anyone has not voted as yet.
Smokescale F2 preference Poll

Tragic Positive.9356:

Holland.9351:

So you already have what you want. You just have to pretend it has been deleted.

Cookie Holland! Take one now!

I laughed, but I’m not sure what it means…

Tragic Positive.9356:

From PvE it doesn’t matter at all because it’s not your job to bring smoke field so you just might have it random and you want the pet to use assault as often as possible – so having it on random makes no difference as having it on demand.

Wrong. If you ever were to pick the smokescale for DPS (which you shouldn’kittens damage is worse than several other pets, another reason why the utility of smoke field is way better in a pve scenario) the automatic field is a dps loss and a field that covers more important fields like the fire one. The F2 smoke field gives rangers an option. Just like it gave engies an option back in the days were thieves were the go-to stealth applier. Stealth is already an established ranger mechanic, and as a damaging pet, the smokescale is already useless compared to other pets.

In PvP, smoke assualt can be used on-demand on swap. Jeez, people have been doing this for ages with wolf knockdown and drake blasts already, and now its suddenly a problem? The matter of fact is that as long as rangers only have one controllable skill (which is what we really should be raging about now that this topic is on the radar), the utility of the smoke field is way more crippled as a passive skill compared to the smoke assualt.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, this is the mentality that is holding Ranger back. Instead of nerfing Smoke Assault, why not just buff the F2 so it blinds as well or something?

The passive skills are often far stronger than the active skills anyway and in those cases where they are, its always because there is a utility skill on the F2, exactly what a smoke field is.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.

1)Because is not as flexible /reliable.
2)Because smokefield F2 feels clunky with taunt.
3)Because players like to combo assault with SOTW/sicem for the extra damage, and SOTP/WHAO for might stacking.
4)Because it prevents players to try and focus fire the pet(assault can be used defensively)
5)Because it can bring the pet back on the target when pet AI get “confused” in path obstacles as such.

1) It is exactly as reliable as it is now, the same reliability as all other pets.
2) Can’t speak directly to this, cannot test, but feels clunky?
3) You can still do exactly that, since its the 1st skill the pet will use when entering combat, you just leave it on passive, cast the skills and send it in. It works exactly the same.
4) Smoke Field is far more defensive for both Ranger and Pet. With far more utility and intuitiveness to have control over.
5) Same as if it was skill #3.

Leaving this here in case anyone has not voted as yet.
Smokescale F2 preference Poll

1)reliable as all other pets is not reliable, that’s why drakes blast finisher combos were never a thing, nor moa heals etc… Dogs are just good regardless.
2)It feels clunky, still usable but not as good as with assault.
3)Ya, making your pet not attack between rotations is huge loss of damage, also if you play with staff u really want the pet on target so you can regenerate AF.
4)How is it more defensive for the pet compared to insta cast 3 sec evade?
5)True, but this way you can it and use when pet actually losing his path and not be based on RNG, like I said more flexible /reliable.

LughLongArm.5460:

Ya, making your pet not attack between rotations is huge loss of damage, also if you play with staff u really want the pet on target so you can regenerate AF.

Except it isn’t because the damage when not using the smoke assualt burst is garbage compared to other pets, and the passive smoke field it is going to want to put down every now and then is a dps loss aswell, just like the birds with their swiftness.

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, this is the mentality that is holding Ranger back. Instead of nerfing Smoke Assault, why not just buff the F2 so it blinds as well or something?

The passive skills are often far stronger than the active skills anyway and in those cases where they are, its always because there is a utility skill on the F2, exactly what a smoke field is.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.

1)Because is not as flexible /reliable.
2)Because smokefield F2 feels clunky with taunt.
3)Because players like to combo assault with SOTW/sicem for the extra damage, and SOTP/WHAO for might stacking.
4)Because it prevents players to try and focus fire the pet(assault can be used defensively)
5)Because it can bring the pet back on the target when pet AI get “confused” in path obstacles as such.

1) It is exactly as reliable as it is now, the same reliability as all other pets.
2) Can’t speak directly to this, cannot test, but feels clunky?
3) You can still do exactly that, since its the 1st skill the pet will use when entering combat, you just leave it on passive, cast the skills and send it in. It works exactly the same.
4) Smoke Field is far more defensive for both Ranger and Pet. With far more utility and intuitiveness to have control over.
5) Same as if it was skill #3.

Leaving this here in case anyone has not voted as yet.
Smokescale F2 preference Poll

1)reliable as all other pets is not reliable, that’s why drakes blast finisher combos were never a thing, nor moa heals etc… Dogs are just good regardless.
2)It feels clunky, still usable but not as good as with assault.
3)Ya, making your pet not attack between rotations is huge loss of damage, also if you play with staff u really want the pet on target so you can regenerate AF.
4)How is it more defensive for the pet compared to insta cast 3 sec evade?
5)True, but this way you can it and use when pet actually losing his path and not be based on RNG, like I said more flexible /reliable.

1) Drake Tail Swipe combos have been a thing for a long time, I just about always ran/will run with drake for melee because of the tail swipe. There are so many videos of this getting around. Either way, that is how you use it. Fyi, the moa heal is not skill #3. Also, a Bear on swap with Protect Me is a great combo.
2) …
3)Most PvPers and WvWers will leave the pet on passive and only use it to burst when needed, rather than have it path around mindlessly. But, yeah, you are correct that you need it to be attacking if you are using staff. It’s not really a loss of damage, take a look at https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/This-are-ranger-pets-PETS-TEST-2 to see how well pets actually do against moving targets. It’s not a great pet for PvE, unless it had the smoke field on F2, then it would be a great option for us to provide stealth.
4) SA is only 2s evade, SC gives 5s of immunity to condi and the opportunity for both you and the pet to become invisible.
5) I’ll agree that it is more reliable for dps, but not more flexible. No way its more flexible.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, this is the mentality that is holding Ranger back. Instead of nerfing Smoke Assault, why not just buff the F2 so it blinds as well or something?

The passive skills are often far stronger than the active skills anyway and in those cases where they are, its always because there is a utility skill on the F2, exactly what a smoke field is.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.

1)Because is not as flexible /reliable.
2)Because smokefield F2 feels clunky with taunt.
3)Because players like to combo assault with SOTW/sicem for the extra damage, and SOTP/WHAO for might stacking.
4)Because it prevents players to try and focus fire the pet(assault can be used defensively)
5)Because it can bring the pet back on the target when pet AI get “confused” in path obstacles as such.

1) It is exactly as reliable as it is now, the same reliability as all other pets.
2) Can’t speak directly to this, cannot test, but feels clunky?
3) You can still do exactly that, since its the 1st skill the pet will use when entering combat, you just leave it on passive, cast the skills and send it in. It works exactly the same.
4) Smoke Field is far more defensive for both Ranger and Pet. With far more utility and intuitiveness to have control over.
5) Same as if it was skill #3.

Leaving this here in case anyone has not voted as yet.
Smokescale F2 preference Poll

1)reliable as all other pets is not reliable, that’s why drakes blast finisher combos were never a thing, nor moa heals etc… Dogs are just good regardless.
2)It feels clunky, still usable but not as good as with assault.
3)Ya, making your pet not attack between rotations is huge loss of damage, also if you play with staff u really want the pet on target so you can regenerate AF.
4)How is it more defensive for the pet compared to insta cast 3 sec evade?
5)True, but this way you can it and use when pet actually losing his path and not be based on RNG, like I said more flexible /reliable.

1) Drake Tail Swipe combos have been a thing for a long time, I just about always ran/will run with drake for melee because of the tail swipe. There are so many videos of this getting around. Either way, that is how you use it. Fyi, the moa heal is not skill #3. Also, a Bear on swap with Protect Me is a great combo.
2) …
3)Most PvPers and WvWers will leave the pet on passive and only use it to burst when needed, rather than have it path around mindlessly. But, yeah, you are correct that you need it to be attacking if you are using staff. It’s not really a loss of damage, take a look at https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/This-are-ranger-pets-PETS-TEST-2 to see how well pets actually do against moving targets. It’s not a great pet for PvE, unless it had the smoke field on F2, then it would be a great option for us to provide stealth.
4) SA is only 2s evade, SC gives 5s of immunity to condi and the opportunity for both you and the pet to become invisible.
5) I’ll agree that it is more reliable for dps, but not more flexible. No way its more flexible.

Fair points, we’ll have to agree on not agreeing as its very based on play style. At least I hope that if they change it back, assault will get the smoke cloud CD as a passive skill and SC will get assault CD. I can agree to that

I like it better now i think…i know when i can finish off a low player beacuse its such a sticky skill, or when i can transfer the might gained from it with WHaO.

i had a great idea , REMOVE the smoke cloud from smokescale make it apply blinds instead and then Anet can make us a Smoke field trap (maybe even make it the Elite trap)

jewishjoyride.4693:

…As others have suggested creating a second completely unique smokescale pet would end this argument. One pet would have a bursty f2, the other a smoke field. Players could then actually tailor pet skill load out for builds.

They will not do that, unless the Smoke Assault is removed from the other Smokey, since you could just F2, then when its over, swap and get another Smoke Assault automatically.

The pet uses the #3 skill immediately after swap, i don’t get why people cannot use this the same way we have swapped to dogs for KD and drakes for tail swipe or birds for swiftness for the last 3 years.[/quote]

Smoke Assault was useable as well when it was the first skill activated. What it comes down to is a personal preference. I’d rather have the burst on f2. I personally find this to be more intuitive and helpful.

Currently the first skill the smoke scale uses after swap is the smoke field. So you could use the smoke field the way you suggest I use Smoke Assault. The main thing you lose out on is the potential of stealth openers. I’ve basically never had this on ranger so I’ve never looked for it.

As far as different pets go, let’s let the devs decide shall we ;p I’ve played ranger for a long time mate. I want nice things.

Edit: Quotation failure. I am an epic forum scrub. This is in response to Heimskarl, responding to me.

Holland.9351:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Holland.9351:

So you already have what you want. You just have to pretend it has been deleted.

Cookie Holland! Take one now!

I laughed, but I’m not sure what it means…

It’s one way to praise a player for job well done. Be it a deed or a well explained phrase.

Lazze.9870:

Wrong. If you ever were to pick the smokescale for DPS (which you shouldn’kittens damage is worse than several other pets, another reason why the utility of smoke field is way better in a pve scenario) the automatic field is a dps loss and a field that covers more important fields like the fire one. The F2 smoke field gives rangers an option. Just like it gave engies an option back in the days were thieves were the go-to stealth applier. Stealth is already an established ranger mechanic, and as a damaging pet, the smokescale is already useless compared to other pets.

In PvP, smoke assualt can be used on-demand on swap. Jeez, people have been doing this for ages with wolf knockdown and drake blasts already, and now its suddenly a problem? The matter of fact is that as long as rangers only have one controllable skill (which is what we really should be raging about now that this topic is on the radar), the utility of the smoke field is way more crippled as a passive skill compared to the smoke assualt.

This just implies that no one really needs the Smoke Screen.

You just said that. You don’t want that for PvE and you want it on demand so you don’t have to use it.

About fields – strategical fire field that is “overwritten” by Smoke is actually a wrong-placed Fire Field that was put onto a smoke one. The 1st one counts.

I never really used the pet for PvE, so far. Even at BWE. I use the pet as an amazing Bursty and sustainable pet. And I value well timed burst much more than I value the well timed smoke screen. Because I don’t need the field.
Having it as an extra random blinding utility – is what I’m fine with.

I get it. I do. People have their reasons for wanting stuff. But this is nothing else but a competition of who finds the better one – while it’s slowly getting derailed into quarrels of who’s opinion is crappy.
Both are correct. PvP player more definitely want the burst. PvE players want the field. But then again – you yourself said you don’t want that pet in PvE whatsoever. The only real and solid viable reasoning to have the smoke field is solo or WvW content.

Anywhere else – it simply doesn’t matter. There will be people for and against.