Guild Wars 2

Im ok with runes of lyssa becoming a thing.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

quaniesan.8497:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

I do agree each class needs to have a counterplay. Don’t you think that it also doesn’t have to be he should be virtually helpless against it though. Conditions are no longer like they were when the game first launched, they are now more prevalent, easily reapplied (in matter of seconds). Especially in PvP when virtually every classes do condi now, it means that non-Mallyx will be weak against everyone. I do think condi removal on legend swap should be increased to one, each legend should have at least one way to remove condition, be it a weaker one than other classes.

I don’t think that is entirely true, as an example engineers don’t run much condition removal in PvP as they have limited options similar to revenant, but still aren’t helpless in PvP.

This doesn’t quite make sense if engineer takes the alchemy line they are set against conditions. I mean Transmute (what I wouldn’t give to have this on rev) 15 second condi to boon maker (requiring no dodging/legend swapping or skill use). Also Alchemical Tinctures to cure them too, considering most f1-4 skills count as elixir, or if you have any equipped. Maybe my pvp engi runs different but applying conditions to engineers tends to make their boon pool grow, instead of actually hurting them. But who knows maybe its just me..

Where as a rev it doesn’t matter what line they take they are always kind of junk vs condition builds. I mean 1 line has a dodge cure (10 second cd) If you dodge at right time.. kinda weak. Another has on legend swap (beats dodging but still. I guess at the end I feel the only possible way rev can handle conditions is with mallyx trait and legend using resistance. And if it gets stripped you are up a creek. Maybe if we get a trait like engineers “transmute” then I will think differently . Just my 2 cents.

And with the reveal of the Engi’s new elite, apparently Revenants are the only class that have to have a weekness to condies…

Quoted from the article:
“Purge Gyro. The Purge gyro will zip around with you cleansing yours and your allies’ conditions every so often. The team designed this one as means to give the Engineer some much needed defense against conditions.”

Guys, seriously? with all the resistence that you can cumulate with mallyx we are FAR from weak on conditions.
Sure we do not clean them, we resist them, and imho is way more powerful.
1 stack of cover them all. It can be counterable with corrupt boons? Ok, then just reapply.
Cmon, i was never condibursted while in mallyx.

“But i have to build for it”
So be it.

We have an amazing class right now, you can’t really complaint that much

Resistance doesn’t deal with the conditions is simply delays the effects, which is good if it helps you deal more damage/kill the enemy but now it doesn’t do that. The only way to deal with them is hope someone in your party cures you before resistance runs out.

Would you consider adding 3 sec of resistance for the legend switch trait?

quaniesan.8497:

Would you consider adding 3 sec of resistance for the legend switch trait?

+1

Would love this mainly if it was for swapping any legend. Not specifically mallyx.

Oh well yeah just run mallyx and take corruption and then camp mallyx. Oh and take invocation because otherwise you have no stunnbreaker on mallyx and while you are at it you need to chose glint to get more resistance. Sounds great doesn’t it…..

Engi is getting more condi remove with his meele build because they called it a strong weakness I really don’t see the point I’m not asking for a ton of condi remove just chance the traits to a usefull level.
1 condi on doge 10s ICD
1 condi on leg swap (so basiclly 10s ICD)
that stuff is not going to do anything the staff chance was good but fix those super weak traits….

Well with the new whirl finisher on sword with light field from Ventari is ulimited condi cleanse…

Here’s a crazy thought: what if conditions applied to the revenant while channeling EtD increased outgoing stacks of torment?

uhohhotdog.3598:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

So what’s elementalist’s weakness?

an ele’s weakness is having lowest armor and lowest HP which means you can be groupbursted down if you don’t pay attention, but that is being covered by runes of vamperism

Stun/chill/daze does the trick. Seems like thief will get plenty of those.

Oh, and immobilize.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

Its a shame ArenaNet haven’t bothered applying that idea to the Warrior.

Argon.1563:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

Its a shame ArenaNet haven’t bothered applying that idea to the Warrior.

This made me lol

caerulean.4837:

Argon.1563:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

Its a shame ArenaNet haven’t bothered applying that idea to the Warrior.

This made me lol

He said Rev needs a weakness, not that every other class does :O /sarcasm_off

lighter.2708:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

So what’s elementalist’s weakness?

an ele’s weakness is having lowest armor and lowest HP which means you can be groupbursted down if you don’t pay attention, but that is being covered by runes of vamperism

…….Celestial ele makes lowest armor and lowest HP a non-issue. Then it has the sustain and healing to deal with pretty much everything else.
Right now, there is only one class that can stand toe to toe with an ele and even then it’s not a 100% guaranteed counter.
Ele has one weakness. Focus fire from multiple people, because that’s required.
And it shouldn’t be ( or wont be much longer)

Solori.6025:

lighter.2708:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

So what’s elementalist’s weakness?

an ele’s weakness is having lowest armor and lowest HP which means you can be groupbursted down if you don’t pay attention, but that is being covered by runes of vamperism

…….Celestial ele makes lowest armor and lowest HP a non-issue. Then it has the sustain and healing to deal with pretty much everything else.
Right now, there is only one class that can stand toe to toe with an ele and even then it’s not a 100% guaranteed counter.
Ele has one weakness. Focus fire from multiple people, because that’s required.
And it shouldn’t be ( or wont be much longer)

The real counter is waiting on them to waste their waterfields to unleash all your DPS, which is hard 1v1 but not impossible, it gets harder the better the Ele your playing against.

On topic, Revenant can manage quite well with conditions, especially now with the changes to malyx, if you run Malyx/Glint, with Corruption/Invocation/Herald, you can effectively ignore damaging conditions while also ingoring weakness, blind, cripple, immob and everything excepting knockdown and knock back, while also having access to shield blocks and not losing on staff greatness, this is as durable as a Jalis/Glint or Jalis/Malyx build, excepting you lose some more damage because you don’t have the damage multipliers from Devastation if you decide to be more durable, currently the strongest PvP/WvW builds are Marauder Herald and Celestial/Rabid (stat mix for WvW Sinister+Carrion/Rabid Trinkets), the only real problem to the changes to Malyx is that most master and grandmaster traits have no synergy with the current legend effects.

quaniesan.8497:

Would you consider adding 3 sec of resistance for the legend switch trait?

If they do I hope they don’t remove the condi cleanse on legend swap that we already have.
1 condi cleansed >> 3 seconds of resistance. We already have glint’s heal and siphons to mitigate intensity stacking condis, we need something to cleanse cripple, chill and slow, lol (Shiro has it by the way).

If you have to use Mallyx (Glint for boon duration buff) the majority/all of the time in PvP/WvW, you are all just highlighting the glaring issue Revenant’s will have with condition counterplay.

Supplementing with runes/sigils/food with available traits would be fine IF we all thought that would be enough to cover the condition meta without Mallyx. As we all know, it does not even come close. And to boot, the argument that Engins are also condition weak is moot now that Scrapper has been announced with an auto-cleanse utility bot…so what is Engineer’s weakness?

For Revenants, conditions no longer become just a weakness, it is a design flaw. And it is a glaring design flaw.

Artaz.3819:

For Revenants, conditions no longer become just a weakness, it is a design flaw. And it is a glaring design flaw.

There are lots of ways to deal with it. In fact, the only stance that has no way of dealing with them at all is Shiro, which is why so many are complaining. If you want to channel Shiro, you should learn to utilize Legendary Guardian™ stance. As in, stand next to a guardian.

ba dum crash

But seriously folks, calling dealing with conditions a design flaw is overstating the case dramatically. We’ve been over this already. If you are that concerned about it, pick something other than Shiro or complement Shiro with a legend that handles them very well.

Huum… it’s true that, after the scrapper POI it really seems revenant is weak to conditions. Scrapper even have a trait for 20% less dammage to condi. In a meta where conditions are everywhere you need to camp mallyx for condi resistance i think….

It’s a choice you have to made, people use herald because it’s easy mode.
tbh personally i prefer mallyx because it has more play to it’s role, similar to thief mesmer, boon strip is needed.

and it has good skill cap and ceiling.

Honestly, the only argument for not having condition transfer on impossible odds was that it would start competing with Mallyx’s embrace the darkness.

Now that Mallyx no longer has condition copy, we might as well place condition transfer on top of impossible odds so that it would closer resemble its gw1 predecessor.

At least this way there will be a way to handle conditions with any legend combination and the Shiro/Glint players will stop complaining.

This isn’t GW1 and things are balanced differently. Adding condition transfer to Shiro would be a problem, IMO.

To be honest watching the POI for the Scrapper and seeing some of the things they were given specifically because engineers are weak to conditions, felt like a blow to the Revenant. Conditions are supposed to be this class’ big weakness, but other classes apparently weak to conditions seem to be a lot better off than the Revenant.

caerulean.4837:

To be honest watching the POI for the Scrapper and seeing some of the things they were given specifically because engineers are weak to conditions, felt like a blow to the Revenant. Conditions are supposed to be this class’ big weakness, but other classes apparently weak to conditions seem to be a lot better off than the Revenant.

I agree with that, but also since basically EVERY class has aoe condi cleanse on power builds, I don’t see really a problem, at least in pve and wvw group play. Could be in pvp or in solo.

However I agree. At this point it doesn’t really make any sense that Revenant only has coni cleanse on Jalis and Ventari, also given that Jalis is probably our worst legend so far (it’s not “bad”, but every other legend is way better, even Ventari with the upcoming changes).

Misguided.5139:

This isn’t GW1 and things are balanced differently. Adding condition transfer to Shiro would be a problem, IMO.

It would have to be lightweight, because a condition transfer on any attack is very powerful. Maybe it would be 1 or 2 conditions on a 5 or 10 second icd, because Impossible Odds is a very expensive upkeep.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

quaniesan.8497:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

I do agree each class needs to have a counterplay. Don’t you think that it also doesn’t have to be he should be virtually helpless against it though. Conditions are no longer like they were when the game first launched, they are now more prevalent, easily reapplied (in matter of seconds). Especially in PvP when virtually every classes do condi now, it means that non-Mallyx will be weak against everyone. I do think condi removal on legend swap should be increased to one, each legend should have at least one way to remove condition, be it a weaker one than other classes.

I don’t think that is entirely true, as an example engineers don’t run much condition removal in PvP as they have limited options similar to revenant, but still aren’t helpless in PvP.

Did Roy not watch the Scrapper poi? Engineer doesn’t have much condi removal now, but upcoming, they’ll have way more than rev. With a gyro that passively picks condis off for 15 seconds on a 25-35 sec cooldown and a gyro that whirls fields spreading poison and fire bolts (two of the hardest hitting conditions) everywhere for 15 seconds. Sounds good, let me know when you stop thinking Mallyx is op and messing the whole spec up.

Here. Education is everything. http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/16638404

I think elite specs are allowed to have new strengths as long as they bring new weaknesses as well (or come at the cost of old strengths).

For example, revenant has limited access to boons and out of combat mobility, while herald has perma swiftness and is entirely designed around boons.

It’s quite possible that we may get an anti-condi elite spec someday, which will eventually come at the cost of not picking Herald.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I think elite specs are allowed to have new strengths as long as they bring new weaknesses as well (or come at the cost of old strengths).

For example, revenant has limited access to boons and out of combat mobility, while herald has perma swiftness and is entirely designed around boons.

It’s quite possible that we may get an anti-condi elite spec someday, which will eventually come at the cost of not picking Herald.

We already had one; It was called Mallyx and it was killed.

Hiki.9310:

DiogoSilva.7089:

I think elite specs are allowed to have new strengths as long as they bring new weaknesses as well (or come at the cost of old strengths).

For example, revenant has limited access to boons and out of combat mobility, while herald has perma swiftness and is entirely designed around boons.

It’s quite possible that we may get an anti-condi elite spec someday, which will eventually come at the cost of not picking Herald.

We already had one; It was called Mallyx and it was killed.

The condi management thing is better now on Mallyx, since we don’t have the self condis to care about. We just have less condi output, but it can be improved.

Cecilia.5179:

Misguided.5139:

This isn’t GW1 and things are balanced differently. Adding condition transfer to Shiro would be a problem, IMO.

It would have to be lightweight, because a condition transfer on any attack is very powerful. Maybe it would be 1 or 2 conditions on a 5 or 10 second icd, because Impossible Odds is a very expensive upkeep.

If a revenant starts with 100 energy and uses no skills impossible odds will last nine seconds; alternatively, if they switch to shiro from another legend, with 50 energy it will last four seconds.

They can probably make it transfer one condition per strike with a one second interval and it might not be anything overly strong.

Hiki.9310:

Cecilia.5179:

Misguided.5139:

This isn’t GW1 and things are balanced differently. Adding condition transfer to Shiro would be a problem, IMO.

It would have to be lightweight, because a condition transfer on any attack is very powerful. Maybe it would be 1 or 2 conditions on a 5 or 10 second icd, because Impossible Odds is a very expensive upkeep.

If a revenant starts with 100 energy and uses no skills impossible odds will last nine seconds; alternatively, if they switch to shiro from another legend, with 50 energy it will last four seconds.

They can probably make it transfer one condition per strike with a one second interval and it might not be anything overly strong.

The revenant energy mechanic ranges from +5 energy per second to -5 energy per second. Without any upkeeps, it stays at +5. Impossible odds does not take 10 energy from you every second. It puts your energy loss at -5 per second (5 -10 = -5). So from 100% you get 18 seconds and from 50% you get 8 seconds.

Well, due to Scrapper I am now of the opinion Revenant needs better condi removal. Maybe not a ton, but some. There’s a pretty big gap between Rev and the other professions that are weak to condis I think. I just want that gap tightened up is all.

Would it be over the top if impossible odds was pulsing resistance? Given the fact that it cost quite a bit already and we use energy for other stuff as well.

Burtnik.5218:

Would it be over the top if impossible odds was pulsing resistance? Given the fact that it cost quite a bit already and we use energy for other stuff as well.

That would also cover condi clense in power build..i’m in favor