Guild Wars 2

To significantly nerf this class in regards to PvP.

After watching the finals rev was the most used class and the only one stacked. 3 classes saw zero representation and 2 saw 1 instance of representation. BTW no team who didn’t have 2x rev made it to the finals.

So let’s brainstorm on what we would do to tone down the class.

Thanks

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

Yes actually we will. They are over performing and need to be nerfed. They’ve been over performing since their introduction to the game….by design i might add.

It’s actually very simple. Nerf them. It doesn’t matter how it is done but the result in only at max 1 per team. I made this thread not as QQ but as an avenue to help the devs collect ideas on what is over performing on the class.

I dont see any nerfs ideas here. Nerf it nao – really helpful

And as far i remember rev in rev week and bwe1 was trash so..?

Your best bet is to delete weapon swap tho. Core rev actually is in need of buffing and i will disagree with any nerfs to core.

Burtnik.5218:

I dont see any nerfs ideas here. Nerf it nao – really helpful

And as far i remember rev in rev week and bwe1 was trash so..?

Your best bet is to delete weapon swap tho. Core rev actually is in need of buffing and i will disagree with any nerfs to core.

Once again you need to re-read the OP. It clearly states let’s start brainstorming.

Now what I would honestly like to see is all classes be viable and teams take classes based on what players are best at playing.

To achieve any semblance of that revs need a serious nerf. Once again its time to not look only at the class you play but at the entire picture.

Yeah, i get that. But the wonder why you dont have suggested anything. Lack of knowledge? Guess so.

You also forgot to mention that in next league you wont be able to stack classes at all which means 1 rev+4 diff classes so your problem is solved right here.

Revs were actually taken as players had experience with them and had no time to learn new build/class so “teams take classes based on what players are best at playing.” and they was best..at rev

Burtnik.5218:

You also forgot to mention that in next league you wont be able to stack classes at all which means 1 rev+4 diff classes so your problem is solved right here.

“Solved” in the same way moving all the homeless people out of a city to somewhere no one sees them, “solves” homelessness.

Burtnik.5218:

Revs were actually taken as players had experience with them and had no time to learn new build/class so “teams take classes based on what players are best at playing.” and they was best..at rev

You mean like players who had played thief for 3+ years, had won WTS on thief, got MVP in WTS as thief, played Rev because they had more experience on Rev, yeah right…

zinkz.7045:

Burtnik.5218:

You also forgot to mention that in next league you wont be able to stack classes at all which means 1 rev+4 diff classes so your problem is solved right here.

“Solved” in the same way moving all the homeless people out of a city to somewhere no one sees them, “solves” homelessness.

Burtnik.5218:

Revs were actually taken as players had experience with them and had no time to learn new build/class so “teams take classes based on what players are best at playing.” and they was best..at rev

You mean like players who had played thief for 3+ years, had won WTS on thief, got MVP in WTS as thief, played Rev because they had more experience on Rev, yeah right…

OP complains about class stacking which will be gone. So that issue is solved. It doesnt matter how, its solved. Also lets be honest, noone gives a kitten about this stuff. How many ppl watched “world wide championship”? 4k.. lmfao

Toker had more than enough time to learn rev already, thief doesnt do well atm bc we have too much aoe damage ingame which is more of a problem with the game than revenant itself. Thief on it own is fine.

I actually love the marketing direction of arenanet. Making “pro” season with 100 000 dollars to the winner seems more important than to invest this amount in the game for enhance it. And for sure, all that this "pro players’ are doing are the right, the only way that we all must follow. Definitly not for me!

Talking about revenant now. I think the problem is that it’s a class quite difficult to balance well. You have only one set of utilities per legend, this set must be balanced in pve but be usefull in pvp aswell. The two healing spells and the switching of the role and utilities in fight make the class difficult to be balance well (that’s what i think). Some of the legends are really good and strong (anyone saying Glint?) but others are useless in every state of the game. But even with that the revenant still a beta class, stuck with 2 legends (and herald mandatory) and having useless legends and traitline and glitches too. The real problem here is that revenant has a cool concept, really. But the game designer who have made it has gone, letting the class in a beta state far far away from a balanced class. Revenant actually need fixes, traitlines rework and utilities rework and is, by far, the class that need the more amount of attention and work to be finished. (Even if we know that warrior has some problems since HOT too)

Burtnik.5218:

OP complains about class stacking which will be gone. So that issue is solved.

Erm no, class stacking is not the issue, it is the result of the issue, which is poor balance, hence you have some classes stacked with 7 of them among 4 teams in the semi-finals, whilst you have other classes either barely represented like mes/ranger or non-existent like thief/warrior/guard, removing class stacking by making some rule about one class per team does not solve the issue at all, all it is, is a poor attempt to hide the issue, the laughable class balance.

It also does nothing other than make things worse for the 99.9% of the players who do not play ESL, so not only don’t have the one class rule when they play, they also have the place where the most obnoxious levels of imbalance can be higlighted (ESL) hide those obnoxious levels of imbalance to some degree due to the one class rule.

Burtnik.5218:

Toker had more than enough time to learn rev already, thief doesnt do well atm bc we have too much aoe damage ingame which is more of a problem with the game than revenant itself. Thief on it own is fine.

Not really, he just did what many players have done over the course of this game, switch to whatever is OP from something that is weak, I mean you don’t even have to be good, it is not like this game has a high skill cap, I remember long ago when a guy called Xeph who played on Team Paradigm switched to thief from mesmer for Pax qualifiers, he barely played the class, was clearly better on mes than thief, yet was far more effective on waht at that time was an OP class that he played 3 weeks, than one he played over a year, they went from losing most of their scrims to Car Crash to winning and then beating them in the qualifier.

There weren’t seven “pro” players on Rev because they all suddenly love the class, or none on thief / warr /guard because they can’t stand them, they play whatever is broken OP in order to win, if rev was nerfed down to bottom tier tomorrow, you think you’d still see all seven of those players still on revs for tourneys, no, of course you wouldn’t.

Rev was probably stacked because they stack well. Most of their team support is boons and their support effects allies better than themselves. Other classes do unique forms of support that stack poorly with themselves.

I suspect that it is support that is really strong and not the rev. In other games a character that supports does less damage or is squishier.

Rev also has a high skill ceiling and is in a good spot within the PvP meta. Combine these facts with how stacking friendly the class is and you see why it was picked so much over others.

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

Yes actually we will. They are over performing and need to be nerfed. They’ve been over performing since their introduction to the game….by design i might add.

It’s actually very simple. Nerf them. It doesn’t matter how it is done but the result in only at max 1 per team. I made this thread not as QQ but as an avenue to help the devs collect ideas on what is over performing on the class.

your comments have never been helpful, more like pretending to be helpful but try to get people behind your ideas to more nerfs.

Enough with your garbage, same as the ones you post in Mesmer forum.

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

Yes actually we will. They are over performing and need to be nerfed. They’ve been over performing since their introduction to the game….by design i might add.

It’s actually very simple. Nerf them. It doesn’t matter how it is done but the result in only at max 1 per team. I made this thread not as QQ but as an avenue to help the devs collect ideas on what is over performing on the class.

your comments have never been helpful, more like pretending to be helpful but try to get people behind your ideas to more nerfs.

Enough with your garbage, same as the ones you post in Mesmer forum.

Pardon me but you need to stay on topic please.

Also the toning down of my rev will be an actual buff to our mesmers. The overall health of the game is more important than a single person’s desire to keep their class OP.

If you can’t see that’s what I’m pushing for than I feel bad for you.

Have a nice day

Threads like this is why in glad the devs have stopped paying attention to this Forum.

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

Yes actually we will. They are over performing and need to be nerfed. They’ve been over performing since their introduction to the game….by design i might add.

It’s actually very simple. Nerf them. It doesn’t matter how it is done but the result in only at max 1 per team. I made this thread not as QQ but as an avenue to help the devs collect ideas on what is over performing on the class.

your comments have never been helpful, more like pretending to be helpful but try to get people behind your ideas to more nerfs.

Enough with your garbage, same as the ones you post in Mesmer forum.

Pardon me but you need to stay on topic please.

Also the toning down of my rev will be an actual buff to our mesmers. The overall health of the game is more important than a single person’s desire to keep their class OP.

If you can’t see that’s what I’m pushing for than I feel bad for you.

Have a nice day

And you’ve yet to give out a single suggestion, therefor your post is just as useless.

Its your thread, you want the brain storming. So start.

“do as I say not as I do” amirite?

@Azukas , if you can’t beat a Rev then learn to play kitten , don’t just go on forums and QQ. You could beat it before during S1, and after numerous nerfs you can deffinetly beat it now. Just for example, reapers and scrappers do great against revs. The class is in a strong position atm, but deffinetly not OP.
Like others have said the game should deffinetly not be balanced around team composition of pro league teams .. And as long as you can take advantage of the class mechanics , any class can fair quite well. Including mesmer.

Just as a recap:
Damage is fine, not the strongest among classes .
Sustain was nerfed , competent players will stop attack on glint heal and if they don’t it is their fault – it can no longer be activated whilst cc’ed, so you have to time it well in order to get the max reward from it.
Mobility is good, great if you are running shiro – but it’s supposed to be the most mobile among heavy classes with all the mist walking going.
Has numerous counters , weak against condition , strong at nuking single opponents, gives good support if running Glint. UA can be neglected if the opponent plays wise, if not it’s a strong hit single target. Like I said its in a pretty good place .

fellyn.5083:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

Yes actually we will. They are over performing and need to be nerfed. They’ve been over performing since their introduction to the game….by design i might add.

It’s actually very simple. Nerf them. It doesn’t matter how it is done but the result in only at max 1 per team. I made this thread not as QQ but as an avenue to help the devs collect ideas on what is over performing on the class.

your comments have never been helpful, more like pretending to be helpful but try to get people behind your ideas to more nerfs.

Enough with your garbage, same as the ones you post in Mesmer forum.

Pardon me but you need to stay on topic please.

Also the toning down of my rev will be an actual buff to our mesmers. The overall health of the game is more important than a single person’s desire to keep their class OP.

If you can’t see that’s what I’m pushing for than I feel bad for you.

Have a nice day

And you’ve yet to give out a single suggestion, therefor your post is just as useless.

Its your thread, you want the brain storming. So start.

“do as I say not as I do” amirite?

No one is going to like my suggestions. Look at this as a way for everyone to pave their way to understanding.

ps. My way would be severe limiting of versatility. You’d have to make severe sacrifices to obtain things like damage, mobility, sustain. None of this we get all in 1 build.

Kastiel.1947:

@Azukas , if you can’t beat a Rev then learn to play kitten , don’t just go on forums and QQ. You could beat it before during S1, and after numerous nerfs you can deffinetly beat it now. Just for example, reapers and scrappers do great against revs. The class is in a strong position atm, but deffinetly not OP.
Like others have said the game should deffinetly not be balanced around team composition of pro league teams .. And as long as you can take advantage of the class mechanics , any class can fair quite well. Including mesmer.

I have a Rev….I mean seriously who didn’t have a lvl 80 rev the minute HoT released???

Fact remains is Rev is being stacked and over performing keeping classes on the sidelines. That needs to change. You can’t argue against this. This is fact.

Azukas.1426:

Kastiel.1947:

@Azukas , if you can’t beat a Rev then learn to play kitten , don’t just go on forums and QQ. You could beat it before during S1, and after numerous nerfs you can deffinetly beat it now. Just for example, reapers and scrappers do great against revs. The class is in a strong position atm, but deffinetly not OP.
Like others have said the game should deffinetly not be balanced around team composition of pro league teams .. And as long as you can take advantage of the class mechanics , any class can fair quite well. Including mesmer.

I have a Rev….I mean seriously who didn’t have a lvl 80 rev the minute HoT released???

Fact remains is Rev is being stacked and over performing keeping classes on the sidelines. That needs to change. You can’t argue against this. This is fact.

Rev is replacing thief and war. Idk about war, but thief is a trash class that is bad and busted it has caused friends who mained those classes to leave the game and PvP was never their main thing.

Marthkus.4615:

Azukas.1426:

Kastiel.1947:

@Azukas , if you can’t beat a Rev then learn to play kitten , don’t just go on forums and QQ. You could beat it before during S1, and after numerous nerfs you can deffinetly beat it now. Just for example, reapers and scrappers do great against revs. The class is in a strong position atm, but deffinetly not OP.
Like others have said the game should deffinetly not be balanced around team composition of pro league teams .. And as long as you can take advantage of the class mechanics , any class can fair quite well. Including mesmer.

I have a Rev….I mean seriously who didn’t have a lvl 80 rev the minute HoT released???

Fact remains is Rev is being stacked and over performing keeping classes on the sidelines. That needs to change. You can’t argue against this. This is fact.

Rev is replacing thief and war. Idk about war, but thief is a trash class that is bad and busted it has caused friends who mained those classes to leave the game and PvP was never their main thing.

Guardian too.

The problem is Rev does too much at once. Like your friend’s class thief. Thief has the best mobility in PvP to decap and move around the map. Team fight wise they are a liability and unless you are godly you die to a fart in the wind. They remained in the Meta due to the discrepancies in mobility.

In comes Rev who can offer enough mobility and the ability to run the thief down before the decap happens, BUT they can fight in team fights, hold points, AND offer group support.

So while you sacrifice some mobility you gain so much more thus making a thief obsolete.

Same goes with warrior. Revs can do everything they do and more which makes them obsolete.

So you need to cut away some dimensions on the rev builds. If they want to have good mobility/chase with really good damage then their group support/fighting needs to get gutted. Something along those lines

Marthkus.4615:

Azukas.1426:

Kastiel.1947:

@Azukas , if you can’t beat a Rev then learn to play kitten , don’t just go on forums and QQ. You could beat it before during S1, and after numerous nerfs you can deffinetly beat it now. Just for example, reapers and scrappers do great against revs. The class is in a strong position atm, but deffinetly not OP.
Like others have said the game should deffinetly not be balanced around team composition of pro league teams .. And as long as you can take advantage of the class mechanics , any class can fair quite well. Including mesmer.

I have a Rev….I mean seriously who didn’t have a lvl 80 rev the minute HoT released???

Fact remains is Rev is being stacked and over performing keeping classes on the sidelines. That needs to change. You can’t argue against this. This is fact.

Rev is replacing thief and war. Idk about war, but thief is a trash class that is bad and busted it has caused friends who mained those classes to leave the game and PvP was never their main thing.

Yea, Thief has caused a lot of people to ragequit since it dominated the roaming role so much before.
Oh, you’re talking about Rev.

Why is it taken over both?
Both Thief and Warrior have bad staying power in team fights (Thief just can’t handle the spam and Warrior has lackluster sustain right now), don’t stack well, and Thief in particular can’t buff the team much. Compare to Revenant, which does all of those things better. It’s just much better for team fights in Conquest and can defend points with Phase Traversal.

That being said, why would you leave if your main is bad in sPvP and you don’t even play a lot of sPvP?
Thief and Warrior are both (mostly) fine in PvE and WvW (admittedly I don’t know that much about WvW, but Thief/Warrior roamers have an entire playground). You can have fun there just fine and find groups.

Azukas.1426:

Kastiel.1947:

@Azukas , if you can’t beat a Rev then learn to play kitten , don’t just go on forums and QQ. You could beat it before during S1, and after numerous nerfs you can deffinetly beat it now. Just for example, reapers and scrappers do great against revs. The class is in a strong position atm, but deffinetly not OP.
Like others have said the game should deffinetly not be balanced around team composition of pro league teams .. And as long as you can take advantage of the class mechanics , any class can fair quite well. Including mesmer.

I have a Rev….I mean seriously who didn’t have a lvl 80 rev the minute HoT released???

Fact remains is Rev is being stacked and over performing keeping classes on the sidelines. That needs to change. You can’t argue against this. This is fact.

Sure just completely ignore my recap post and QQ more with “facts” or even any of the points in my post that you quote like revs having numerous counters..right .. And just FYI people who are actually good at warriors can give a Rev a run for their money, thieves too – granted this class has deffinetly the highest skill cap. Anyways, you sir have lost my attention, nothing to see here .

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

Herald needs to be nerfed, like all elite specs. Mostly in the traits department and in Facet of Nature’s activation being a 20s cooldown Save Yourselves. Sure its a little weaker, but its still super strong. We also need bugs fixed, but we got a npc so i guess were okay.

Hooglese.4860:

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

Herald needs to be nerfed, like all elite specs. Mostly in the traits department and in Facet of Nature’s activation being a 20s cooldown Save Yourselves. Sure its a little weaker, but its still super strong. We also need bugs fixed, but we got a npc so i guess were okay.

Which i nerfed in my document by moving toughness and endurance regeneration on upkeep to invocation and shared empo to gm along with reworking EB so it no longer provides 2x stab on a dodge. Shaved boons from f2 by 30% as well.

That alone hits rev hard.

Boonbot playstyle can go diaf as far im concerned. It needs to be toned down and merely offer an alternative playstyle, and not something that massively blows every other legend out of the water.

So booooooring and skill less to maintain and pop the ocassional facet, but the benefits of permaboons is just too good.

Malchior.5732:

Marthkus.4615:

Azukas.1426:

Kastiel.1947:

@Azukas , if you can’t beat a Rev then learn to play kitten , don’t just go on forums and QQ. You could beat it before during S1, and after numerous nerfs you can deffinetly beat it now. Just for example, reapers and scrappers do great against revs. The class is in a strong position atm, but deffinetly not OP.
Like others have said the game should deffinetly not be balanced around team composition of pro league teams .. And as long as you can take advantage of the class mechanics , any class can fair quite well. Including mesmer.

I have a Rev….I mean seriously who didn’t have a lvl 80 rev the minute HoT released???

Fact remains is Rev is being stacked and over performing keeping classes on the sidelines. That needs to change. You can’t argue against this. This is fact.

Rev is replacing thief and war. Idk about war, but thief is a trash class that is bad and busted it has caused friends who mained those classes to leave the game and PvP was never their main thing.

Yea, Thief has caused a lot of people to ragequit since it dominated the roaming role so much before.
Oh, you’re talking about Rev.

Why is it taken over both?
Both Thief and Warrior have bad staying power in team fights (Thief just can’t handle the spam and Warrior has lackluster sustain right now), don’t stack well, and Thief in particular can’t buff the team much. Compare to Revenant, which does all of those things better. It’s just much better for team fights in Conquest and can defend points with Phase Traversal.

That being said, why would you leave if your main is bad in sPvP and you don’t even play a lot of sPvP?
Thief and Warrior are both (mostly) fine in PvE and WvW (admittedly I don’t know that much about WvW, but Thief/Warrior roamers have an entire playground). You can have fun there just fine and find groups.

Not everyone is 100% zerk oriented and cares only about damage. My friend found the old acrobatics better than the new one and daredevil combined. In his mind v the thief doesn’t really do anything that useful.

Marthkus.4615:

Not everyone is 100% zerk oriented and cares only about damage. My friend found the old acrobatics better than the new one and daredevil combined. In his mind v the thief doesn’t really do anything that useful.

I didn’t say anyone only cared about damage, but… your friend can’t be serious.

Regardless, Thief has the highest mobility in the game which was used a LOT in Conquest before and made Thief into an Apex Predator. No other class, except Guardian, could realistically run glass stats because a Thief could just kill them over and over again and they wouldn’t stand a chance. The only reason that isn’t happening again is because we have more mobile bunkers (that includes Portal plays), more decap defense (i.e. Revenant), and more of a team fight focus where Thief doesn’t shine as much.

Over in PvE (and technically WvW), Thief has some of the highest DPS (surpassed by Ele by ~3k) in the game. At a whopping 27k DPS, I don’t think people will complain about having a Thief in their Raid group. Venomshare Thief also has pretty good DPS.
They don’t have a lot of support, but at least in PvE, the higher-than-average damage is fine and gives them some use. If you don’t want a pure damage role, then technically a “tank” Daredevil can work, but people will want you dealing a ton of damage anyway, regardless of class/build.

Not to be offensive, but if my friend finds the class either lacking or poorly designed, I believe him. He takes MMOs far more seriously than I do.

Your random metrics mean little. He played PvE a lot and the only good thing you can say about the PvE thief is auto attack damage.

Marthkus.4615:

Not to be offensive, but if my friend finds the class either lacking or poorly designed, I believe him. He takes MMOs far more seriously than I do.

Your random metrics mean little. He played PvE a lot and the only good thing you can say about the PvE thief is auto attack damage.

Haven’t given any real reasons as to “why”, but ok.

Also, how are my metrics random?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/44dli8/actual_dps_comparison_between_classesguard_ele/

Yea, mostly auto-attacks, but:

That’s still decent and definitely usable.
Could Thief get more support? Sure, but then it shouldn’t be doing so much damage and/or have so much mobility. At the very least they have high damage for the time being along with a lot of Evade frames.

Honestly if the assassin stun break didn’t give the rev a whole dodge when used, it would be much more balanced.

wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.

I would like thief damage to be more initiative based so they can choose defense or offense on the fly. But that also means buffing thief defense so they don’t have to spend all initiative points on defense to survive and depend on AA for damage.

Also thieves should poop blinds and fury as support. Perma stealth should be easier to maintain for PvE fun. Right now perma stealth takes your whole build.

I don’t mind thief being the class where glass builds work in all modes. As anti-glass meta as I am that doesn’t mean glass shouldn’t be optimal for some classes.

At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.

Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.

The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”

(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)

The one to Rule.2593:

wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.

Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.

draxynnic.3719:

At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.

Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.

The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”

(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)

The one to Rule.2593:

wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.

Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.

Last finals had 2 revs a team

That warrants a nerfing by all regards.

As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer

So what they had 2 revs in team? It was used for the whole s1 season with balance patch last min basically. Do you think its smart to roll a new class you have not played before for tourney? Jelly thief.. you had 3 years in meta, you always been a part of meta. Make some space for other berserker builds.

Oh well..reading almost all aaand sorry can’t agree at all..yes rev it’s strong but just mallyx/shiro or imo mallyx/dragonstance..power rev lack of any condicleanse and they get wrecked quite fast,they aren’t even the first class you target at the beginning of fights..generally you go for necro or ranger and if both better ranger since he prob run search and rescue...
I played rev for all the season one, now I play a thief and kitten if played well you can turn the fight for good..and power rev are the last class that annoying me even 1vs1..sure rev provides buff and can stand fights longer but that’s not the purpose of thieves it never was.
Rev need a as all other classes need a build variation and not to be stuck with one build all day long.
And for warriors most of the people misunderstood keeping straight mentality that war can’t support himself,actually wanderer sword torch/mace shield with reusing resilience let you stand in fights longer giving you the role of hard cc and condipressure..

Trepidation Lost.3469:

youre an idiot that thinking 2x rev in setups means rev needs nerf.
i see 3 necros in 90% of the games i play, does that need nerf? no, class stacking needs to be removed.

by 2x rev setup he means that pro league teams runs 2x rev setup, not some random soloq you encountered with random player

Revenants, at least currently, share the spot in teams with Thieves, maybe new condi shatter Mes and are better than them because of better burst resistance and easier damage dealing when supported.

Problem with nerfs here is, while Thief can always be used as decapper and Mesmer for utility, if you nerf Revenant too much (and that’s Balance Team’s style in general), it would be left just with…nothing. There are no alternative, meta-competitive builds (condition M/S has the same role as Power G/S and rely on Riposting Shadows being over the top) or unique utility Revenant can bring. And looking at amazing ratio of fixing many Revenant’s issues per balance patch, it doesn’t look like there will be this year or expansion.

Azukas.1426:

Last finals had 2 revs a team

That warrants a nerfing by all regards.

As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer

I like how the post before literally says ‘just because pro teams use something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s OP’ and yet you keep spouting your ‘hurr the top teams used X, it must be nerfed!’ time and again.

Also lets not forget that thief has a fair chance at beating rev. So if a thief has a chance to beat something op, does that mean he needs nerf as well? Think so.

I like OP’s logic, 2 revs in esl translate to omg nerf….. cause we’re ALL esl pro leaguers ofc.

Burtnik.5218:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

I love to be right ;D

Theres only 1 thing that has to be toned down and its herald. They also played old comp (shield revs lmao) and eles carried them like a princess.

But its okay, lets base balance around “pro league” played by kids <cough>

My thoughts exactly when people QQ about Guardians on the opposite of the spectrum, but that’s a different can of worms. Some is always best, someone is always worst. Crys like the OP has doesn’t seem to recognize this.

WvW wise it’s not the best roamer/blob class now too. I see less revenants running around even though the nerf to hammer 2 was only increase of it’s cd by 2 seconds xD There are so much more viable builds out there for roaming (condi mesmer dipkitten with NanNan ammount of confusion e.g). For PvE? Well, had some chuckle with my the guild I used to run raids and they told me that they’d only take Rev for it’s facet of nature since there are classes that provide more dps and 100% fury is achievable by other means without revenant easy.

As for sPvP. Condi cleanse is simply miserable, can’t stack ressistance like before. Without invocation (seirously, who the hell would take it nowdays in competitive over devastation or corruption) and Shiro there is only like 1 stun breaker. And meeting a competent necro as mallyx is usually totally nuts xD Condi bombs and boon corruption and low cd condition transfers melt you like butter.

I’d rather prefer the overhaul, the class felt raw from the start. With amazing weapon choice and with all legends being useful. insert sarcasm here

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

even though the nerf to hammer 2 was only increase of it’s cd by 2 seconds xD

It’s almost as if Hammer doesn’t actually have too much going for it…

Malchior.5732:

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

even though the nerf to hammer 2 was only increase of it’s cd by 2 seconds xD

It’s almost as if Hammer doesn’t actually have too much going for it…

Dunno, I never used hammer just for CoS (although I suspect something is wrong with it’s dmg calculating formula :/) . It’s AA is slow indeed but it hits up to 5 targets with not bad numbers while 4 isn’t just a projectiles shield but also a dark combo field (hello lifesteal sustain ^^). 3 is also kinda good dodge ability PLUS it’s not bad at disarming DH’s traps on a node or inside opposite server’s blob.
Zerk stats, blob. Hammer with 4 combo field, Shiro’s heal and quickness…which blob’s comm do you want us to take down in seconds? kek

Burtnik.5218:

So what they had 2 revs in team? It was used for the whole s1 season with balance patch last min basically. Do you think its smart to roll a new class you have not played before for tourney? Jelly thief.. you had 3 years in meta, you always been a part of meta. Make some space for other berserker builds.

I don’t play thief I play mesmer, warrior, rev, necro, wee bit of ranger/engi/guardian.

What I find funny is the answer to the bolded question is no its not smart but players like Toker/etc. Did switch to rev lol while dropping thief lol

I’m confused as to why you are arguing against yourself though…

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

So what they had 2 revs in team? It was used for the whole s1 season with balance patch last min basically. Do you think its smart to roll a new class you have not played before for tourney? Jelly thief.. you had 3 years in meta, you always been a part of meta. Make some space for other berserker builds.

I don’t play thief I play mesmer, warrior, rev, necro, wee bit of ranger/engi/guardian.

What I find funny is the answer to the bolded question is no its not smart but players like Toker/etc. Did switch to rev lol while dropping thief lol

I’m confused as to why you are arguing against yourself though…

How so? Check out when Toker rolled rev. Definitely not 2 weeks ago…

Burtnik.5218:

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

So what they had 2 revs in team? It was used for the whole s1 season with balance patch last min basically. Do you think its smart to roll a new class you have not played before for tourney? Jelly thief.. you had 3 years in meta, you always been a part of meta. Make some space for other berserker builds.

I don’t play thief I play mesmer, warrior, rev, necro, wee bit of ranger/engi/guardian.

What I find funny is the answer to the bolded question is no its not smart but players like Toker/etc. Did switch to rev lol while dropping thief lol

I’m confused as to why you are arguing against yourself though…

How so? Check out when Toker rolled rev. Definitely not 2 weeks ago…

Just about every pro thief is now on rev. Many have dropped a,class they’ve played for over 3 yrs to play a,class with maybe,a,few months on and are performing better on rev than thief.

That’s a,problem and a clear identifier that rev needs to be toned down

Not at all. Thief is more than fine but the reason why its not played is the amount of braindead aoes HoT brought so thief cant survive well in a teamfight. And cause rev has similiar mobility+sustain and support in teamfight hes a obvious choice at this point replacing thief. But either way as few people pointed out its a pointless discussion so bai.