Now that nobody is using mace anymore and probably even less Jalis, can we start addressing the lack of swiftness for this class? The only one with no swiftness skill at all or even a trait to get 25% movement speed.
Mesmer: swiftness weaponskill + passive signet, almost perma swiftness for the slowest class in the game + BLINKS. Also Chronomancer getting 25% speed trait, but normal Mesmer is already enough and probably the best class for jumping puzzles and exploration.
Engineer: perma swiftness with kit swap, plus swiftness skills. No combo needed.
Guardian: swiftness weaponskill and 2 swiftness shouts. Perma swiftness here too (93-120% swiftness uptime with 1-2 tics from staff symbol), plus a leap with GS.
Necromancer: +25% speed signet, swiftness utility skill and weaponskill.
Warrior: +25% speed trait, plus swiftness weaponskill and active signet.
Thief: +25% speed sigil, spammable blinks and leaps. Some swiftness on steal and dodge.
Elementalist: like Thief but with even more swiftness.
Ranger: LOL, spam heal, elite, shout training: enjoy 2min swiftness. Not factoring the +25% speed signet. That’s so reduntant it can be removed from the game. Or give it to Revenant.
Revenant has a combo field and blast finishers, we all know that. While this is something, it’s a far inferior mobility compared to other classes. Can’t be used effectively in jumping puzzle and WvW. Sometimes you also need to stop to avoid missing the slow Jalis road. Also forces you to equip Jalis and a mace (hammer is too slow, seriously, normal speed is better then having to stop to get 5 seconds of swiftness).
Possible solutions:
- Make Jalis #6 to add swiftness baseline. Why not?
EDIT:
It seems that default upkeep ooc will be +5 in the next iteration, so maybe Impossible Odds will be a 9 seconds swiftness ooc, going down at -5 with a 5 energy activation cost.
Waiting for a confirmation from Roy or any dev on this. It would still be a 47% swiftness uptime however
EDIT2:
nope, over 90% since legendswap has no cd ooc.
Impossible Odds gives <Super Speed> which is faster than regular swiftness. Because this is an upkeep skill, when out of combat you will have 10 seconds of super speed before you need to refill your energy.
Impossible Odds gives <Super Speed> which is faster than regular swiftness. Because this is an upkeep skill, when out of combat you will have 10 seconds of super speed before you need to refill your energy.
Upkeep skills can’t be used out of combat because of the way energy regeneration works. When not in combat, energy regeneration pips go to 0 in order to keep the Revenant at a resting 50 energy. Upkeep skills require that the Revenant have pips to get rid of, because they all cost more than the 5 pips that would bring a Revenant from 0 pips to -5.
Impossible Odds gives <Super Speed> which is faster than regular swiftness. Because this is an upkeep skill, when out of combat you will have 10 seconds of super speed before you need to refill your energy.
Upkeep skills can’t be used out of combat because of the way energy regeneration works. When not in combat, energy regeneration pips go to 0 in order to keep the Revenant at a resting 50 energy. Upkeep skills require that the Revenant have pips to get rid of, because they all cost more than the 5 pips that would bring a Revenant from 0 pips to -5.
Okay, then yeah. Revenants need a form of swiftness if they cant really use upkeeps when out of combat.
Impossible Odds gives <Super Speed> which is faster than regular swiftness. Because this is an upkeep skill, when out of combat you will have 10 seconds of super speed before you need to refill your energy.
Upkeep skills can’t be used out of combat because of the way energy regeneration works. When not in combat, energy regeneration pips go to 0 in order to keep the Revenant at a resting 50 energy. Upkeep skills require that the Revenant have pips to get rid of, because they all cost more than the 5 pips that would bring a Revenant from 0 pips to -5.
Okay, then yeah. Revenants need a form of swiftness if they cant really use upkeeps when out of combat.
It’s a little challenging, but Revenants do have a way for high (possibly 100% with some practice/boon duration buffs) swiftness uptime.
Jalis’ Inspiring Reinforcement is a lightning Field, which means it can be blasted for AoE 10s swiftness. Mace 3 is a blast finisher, with an 8 second cooldown, and IR is a 5 sec CD, so you can chain those two skills for 100% swiftness if you wanted (I think it’s even possible to blast IR twice with Mace 3, but it requires near-perfect positioning that would be difficult to pull off on the run) Hammer 5 is also a blast, but with a 15sec CD, you would only be able to maintain a 66% uptime, though with weapon swap being added, that might be the weapon of choice for this, since as the only ranged weapon I suspect the majority of people would be using Hammer as one of their weapon sets anyway.
Only downside is that you have to have Jalis as one of your legends, at least while in open world PvE, as well as use mace if you want 100 swiftness, which probably means either a condi build or no ranged weapon.
Impossible Odds gives <Super Speed> which is faster than regular swiftness. Because this is an upkeep skill, when out of combat you will have 10 seconds of super speed before you need to refill your energy.
Upkeep skills can’t be used out of combat because of the way energy regeneration works. When not in combat, energy regeneration pips go to 0 in order to keep the Revenant at a resting 50 energy. Upkeep skills require that the Revenant have pips to get rid of, because they all cost more than the 5 pips that would bring a Revenant from 0 pips to -5.
Upkeep skills will be usable out of combat, Roy’s already confirmed this in a comment he posted somewhere on these forums, they’re making a tweak to the energy mechanic that makes it possible.
(Something like allowing energy to regen out of combat but capping at 50 energy ooc)
The energy mechanic is kind of weird when out of combat right now and that’s something we’ve already addressed internally. In the next iteration you’ll see it’ll have the updated energy bar.
Basically, you can’t use the upkeep skills right now because you don’t have the upkeep to spend to use them because when you are out of combat energy upkeep drops from 5 per second base to 0 when you are resting at 50% energy. In the new version you will always be at 5 per second base, it’ll instead just cap energy at 50% out of combat. Which should solve a lot of the weirdness.
Can’t you just lay down your field, blast it, stack swiftness and then initiate the skip like every other person does, if the mobility when ooc worries you? Yeah, you’re not a wh warrior with perma swiftness, tough. Not everyone can be that.
You also got plenty of shadowsteps for when in combat. It doesn’t look bad at all, despite not being a thief or an fgs ele… but AGAIN, can we wait for next beta and Tagachi-san so we can give some feedback that makes sense? Please? You know, like for the last beta – when they actually listened and iterated because players had reasonable complaints and some empirical data to back them up?
I’d like that to happen again, if possible.
Hammer 5 has like 9001 seconds of cast time. And I don’t want 100% swiftness
It’s 1 and 3/4 sec, the whole combo should take less than what a Guardian spends standing in his staff 3 field.
…and I mention it because, since Hammer is the only ranged weapon, the vast majority of Revenants will have one as a weapon slot while running around, so why not use it?
Also, the only universal condition cleanses a revenant has right now is Staff 4, Jalis heal, and Ventari’s Purifying Essence, so unless you’re running staff as your melee or Ventari as one of your legends, you’re probably running Jalis for condi cleanse.
Impossible Odds gives <Super Speed> which is faster than regular swiftness. Because this is an upkeep skill, when out of combat you will have 10 seconds of super speed before you need to refill your energy.
Upkeep skills can’t be used out of combat because of the way energy regeneration works. When not in combat, energy regeneration pips go to 0 in order to keep the Revenant at a resting 50 energy. Upkeep skills require that the Revenant have pips to get rid of, because they all cost more than the 5 pips that would bring a Revenant from 0 pips to -5.
Upkeep skills will be usable out of combat, Roy’s already confirmed this in a comment he posted somewhere on these forums, they’re making a tweak to the energy mechanic that makes it possible.
(Something like allowing energy to regen out of combat but capping at 50 energy ooc)
we actually saw it working already in todays POI stream. The 5pips were always present, even though the energy is limited to 50 out of combat.
Mesmer has pretty bad access to swiftness too unless they trait and equip runes for it.
Well Mesmer is getting 25% speed in Chronomancer, if I recall correctly, and we still have Revenant elite spec to look forward to… Roy, please put that on a fast track.
Also, show Rubi how to summon her moose so she is distracted with them instead of stopping you telling us all them juicy details.
The only thing I’ve found so far is Inspiring Reinforcement (Jalis utility, the stone road) and then blast it with mace 3. You have to stutter-step a bit to get the swiftness, its a lot of work and only lasts for a few seconds which doesn’t help if you’re going across a map in WvW or something.
How is it still 4 seconds if you have 5 energy/s recharge? It costs you 5 to activate the skill, and 5 per second to sustain it (10 per second with 5 per second recharged). That should be 9 seconds of super speed.
Both Hammer 2 or 3 (can’t recall which) and Hammer 5 are blast finishers. Which means you can blast finish twice with a hammer, or use mace, and now that there is weapon swapping on the revenant, it’s very likely that everyone will have one or the other. While not as likely everyone will be running Jalis, it still means that there are lots of blast finishers to go on the dwarven road.
That said, it would be nice to have a baseline speed increase. Which, since at the very least we don’t know all of what Shiro does, and at the most (unless rev ships with less utilities than any other profession, there are two missing from each of the current legends) another legend, or a trait in the fifth line, may give that option. More, Legend Swapping is now becoming instant. Check me if I am wrong, but wasn’t that on a trait before? Which means that trait is now open for a new effect as well.
dont forget we still have glint coming up, its assumed she is a 5 signet utility legend, so she very well could have a 25% movement speed passive on one of the signets
but in the meantime, we have super speed with impossible odds
Yeah, I’m also pushing this thread because I hope it gets attention so they add some mobility buff on Glint traits/skills.
Hoping skills, so even if I won’t use Glint for combat I can use her for exploration.
Exploration is a huge and amazing part of this game. I don’t want to be forced to change class because Revenant can’t do it efficiently.
Jumping puzzles require swiftness most of the time. Or are easier with it.
To hit the road with hammer skills you have to stop moving. They’re too slow and you can miss the road, so it actually slows you down.
Already talked about mace, please read other replies.
Plus mace combo is something you can’t really use in jumping puzzles if you don’t want to fall.
And what kind of argument is that? Mesmer forces you to use a (really good) offhand weapon or just swap an utility skill for 5 seconds of swiftness every 10.
And that’s the slowest class atm.
Revenant is forced to equip a weapon and a legend just for a combo that actually slows you down.
Is even worse then the slowest class.
blast finish in the dwarfen road skill grants swiftness.. but thats about the only way we got so far that could actually serve as mobility skill. Only issue is that the road falls slower then you run so you gotta stop to blast finish it. For wvw thats gonna be a pain
not going to spend 40g for something that should be fixed before launch.
I’m pretty sure Roy is watching this thread and if he sees that the lack of swiftness is an issue for exploration with Revenant, then he’ll do something about it.
Example: why not make swiftness baseline for Jalis road skill? So it can be used with any weapon.
Mesmer: swiftness weaponskill + passive signet, almost 100% perma swiftness. Also Chronomancer getting 25% speed trait, but normal Mesmer is already enough and probably the best class for jumping puzzles and exploration.
Engineer: perma swiftness with kit swap, plus swiftness skills. No combo needed
Guardian: swiftness weaponskill and 2 swiftness shouts. Perma swiftness here too.
Necromancer: 25% speed signet, swiftness utility skill and weaponskill.
Warrior: 25% speed trait, plus swiftness weaponskill and active signet.
Thief: everything plus blinks.
Elementalist: as Thief if not better.
Ranger: LOL, spam heal, elite, shout training, enjoy 2min swiftness. Not factoring the +25% speed signet. That’s so reduntant it can be removed from the game. Or give it to Revenant.
Seriously, “you can combo”? Oh come on.
Revenant has a combo field and blast finishers, we all know that. While this is something, it’s a far inferior mobility compared to other classes. Can’t be used effectively in jumping puzzle (enjoy falling down with mace #3) and WvW. Sometimes you also need to stop to avoid missing the slow Jalis road. Also forces you to equip Jalis and a mace (hammer is too slow, seriously, normal speed is better then having to stop to get 5 seconds of swiftness).
Possible solutions:
- Make Jalis #6 to add swiftness baseline. Why not?
not going to spend 40g for something that should be fixed before launch.
I’m pretty sure Roy is watching this thread and if he sees that the lack of swiftness is an issue for exploration with Revenant, then he’ll do something about it.
Example: why not make swiftness baseline for Jalis road skill? So it can be used with any weapon.
Against lore. Dwarfs are slow. Reason why we have slow useless hammer and slow useless dwarf legend.
Against lore. Dwarfs are slow. Reason why we have slow useless hammer and slow useless dwarf legend.
Roads are built to go faster.
Plus that road, even if not directly, is currently the only source of swiftness.
It’s not a dwarf physical ability, you spawn a road. Makes sense that it allows you to go faster and get stability. Dwarfs are good manufactorers. Lol.
Mace…
Jalis…
did you read my first post in this thread?
Hammer 5
Weapon swap
and unless your an Engineer or Warrior (or a Mace/Jalis Rev), 100% swiftness by yourself is a myth.
Mesmer: Focus 4 skill plus Signit of inspiration equipped. You’re welcome.
That would still create about 5 seconds downtime, you would at the very least need the focus cd reduction trait, and even then you would need pinpoint accuracy with the curtain as you can NOT have any swiftness on you when you walk over curtain if you want to get swiftness from it, so even with cd trait you need pinpoint accuracy, so forced into a specific utility skill, a specific weapon AND a specific traitline (where you have to choose a specific master trait in) it is not any better off than the revenant, that as pointed out can get 100% swiftness with a specific legend and specific wepaon
Can stack 24.5s of swiftness every 25 seconds. 98%.
No traits and both focus and signet can be swapped and are actually pretty good unlike mace.
No combo involved, no jumps, no need to stop.
Temporal curtain only grants swiftness if you don’t already have swiftness so you lose out on overall uptime from having to wait for the swiftness already on you to wear off.
Still, that’s much better than having to stop for 2 seconds every 10 seconds to blast a light field, atm rev is even slower than mesmer
I’m spoiled from maining an Engi, but I agree Revenant needs something for speed. It is practically baseline for any profession in this game, like the fall damage trait.
A suggestion in this thread from Coldtart might be the way to go and would result in Revenant oddly being the fastest profession.
Impossible Odds for 9 seconds. Rev Swap in and out of Shiro (sets energy back to 50). Rinse and repeat.
A suggestion in this thread from Coldtart might be the way to go and would result in Revenant oddly being the fastest profession.
Impossible Odds for 9 seconds. Rev Swap in and out of Shiro (sets energy back to 50). Rinse and repeat.
I don’t know if you’re suggesting to change IO or you’re saying that you can do this.
Atm, as mentioned in a post above, you can’t have 9 seconds of IO out of combat. You get 4 at best and every 10 seconds (current recharge for legend swap).
Ooc you have a 50 energy cap, and IO consumes 5 energy to activate and 10 upkeep.
Also that’s only possibile if they’re still going to make the change to the upkeep, because in the last beta you couln’t use upkeep kills ooc at all.
I really hope Revenant will see a passive 25% speed boost considering most of the weapons Revenant has are melee.
Also even though Impossible Odds seems like a really awesome burst skill, I don’t really see it working as a reliable source of speedboost in the way it currently is, when needing to sustain speed in a long run.
Otherwise Revenants are just being pushed to using Traveler’s runes, or forcing them to adapt being slow and going for tankier builds probably utilising hammers long range.
The title is slightly misleading since swiftness is not exactly mobility. While I agree certain legends needs some sort of mobility boost like centaur, which should honestly get a minor trait (Or baseline) granting 25% movement speed while being centaur, I don’t think the biggest issues for most specs will be swiftness. You could agruably also complain about the lack of might certain classes can stack compared to others, but as long as there’s no valid argument given it’s just as pointless as this thread.
So I’d like to know what the OP concerns are when talking about the short amount of movement speed. Because so far I don’t see jumping puzzles (which are made to do without any speed boost) as a big profession issue.
Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.
This is one thing that frustrates me too. With some professions I HAVE to spend money on giving them runes of speed, just to keep up with the zerg in Edge of the Mists. It annoys me so much.
I would propose the idea of giving every profession the 25% passive movement speed signet for their utility bar. That way it doesn’t have to mess up any build you’re running. Alternatively, it could be added to one of the traits, like the 50% less fall damage trait.
Some professions have it easy when it comes to basic necessities, like movement, while others get the short end of the stick, or have to rely on using their weapon skills just to keep up with everyone else. It’s so wrong. Definitely needs a look into. At least with the Chronomancer, they’ll be given a movement trait, which is good, though in the meantime mesmers in particular will just have to pay up a bit for runes of speed or runes of the traveller (expensive those ones – ouch!).
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