Guild Wars 2

Azukas.1426:

DeceiverX.8361:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.

It is if you play D/D, where the only functional skill in stealth is backstab.

This is why the change is so stupid; it nerfs our weakest set even more than it was already underpowered.

I’ve given up.

ALL weaponsets are affected for thief not just D/D.

Not as badly. All other weapon sets have good or even strictly better skills to use from stealth. Power D/D’s only good ability while in stealth is backstab. The weapon set, out of an attempt to let it spec hybrid (lol, like that’s ever gonna be viable) is one-dimensional when it comes to stealth, and now objectively the worst set to have while in stealth, despite having the highest stealth uptime potential of them all. If your backstab gets negated by Aegis, invuln, blur, evades, or just from lagging a little you’ve just wasted six initiative on D/D, because it’s unlikely you’re getting another chance. The paired nerf to BV hurt the build even more, since now even CnD is unreliable as Mug will proc the venom and passive aegis/invulns/blocks/blurs/evades will fire. Now such a thief is down 6 initiative, left without stealth, CC, reliability, escape, and damage.

Quite frankly, there’s objectively no reason to play D/D right now except condi evade spam cancer Daredevil. I’d rather quit GW2 than be so embarrassed to put that and play that on my main thief.

D/D power is now in all regards, total trash. There’s not a single redeeming facet of the build now. I’m certainly shelving my thief and likely the game for a good long time because of just how bad it is except for spamming 1 in PvE.

DeceiverX.8361:

Azukas.1426:

DeceiverX.8361:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.

It is if you play D/D, where the only functional skill in stealth is backstab.

This is why the change is so stupid; it nerfs our weakest set even more than it was already underpowered.

I’ve given up.

ALL weaponsets are affected for thief not just D/D.

Not as badly. All other weapon sets have good or even strictly better skills to use from stealth. Power D/D’s only good ability while in stealth is backstab. The weapon set, out of an attempt to let it spec hybrid (lol, like that’s ever gonna be viable) is one-dimensional when it comes to stealth, and now objectively the worst set to have while in stealth, despite having the highest stealth uptime potential of them all. If your backstab gets negated by Aegis, invuln, blur, evades, or just from lagging a little you’ve just wasted six initiative on D/D, because it’s unlikely you’re getting another chance. The paired nerf to BV hurt the build even more, since now even CnD is unreliable as Mug will proc the venom and passive aegis/invulns/blocks/blurs/evades will fire. Now such a thief is down 6 initiative, left without stealth, CC, reliability, escape, and damage.

Quite frankly, there’s objectively no reason to play D/D right now except condi evade spam cancer Daredevil. I’d rather quit GW2 than be so embarrassed to put that and play that on my main thief.

D/D power is now in all regards, total trash. There’s not a single redeeming facet of the build now. I’m certainly shelving my thief and likely the game for a good long time because of just how bad it is except for spamming 1 in PvE.

Do what I do on my characters. Play ALL the weapons so I keep myself up to date. The only class I’m not really like that with is my ele. I don’t have much time on it tbh.

What I’d like to mention additionally: This also effects stomps made in stealth – really anet, this is a no go.
Revert this and see if anyone really complains about thieves being OP and what they have to say. It was only one person who complained that thieves can “chain backstabs” in the past half a year – there was zero reason to take it seriously.

ETA: Actually I’m having troubles even in PvE – it really goes that far that I don’t kill the mobs around mining nodes anymore (I used to kill everything) to spare me the hassle.

Azukas.1426:

DeceiverX.8361:

Azukas.1426:

DeceiverX.8361:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.

It is if you play D/D, where the only functional skill in stealth is backstab.

This is why the change is so stupid; it nerfs our weakest set even more than it was already underpowered.

I’ve given up.

ALL weaponsets are affected for thief not just D/D.

Not as badly. All other weapon sets have good or even strictly better skills to use from stealth. Power D/D’s only good ability while in stealth is backstab. The weapon set, out of an attempt to let it spec hybrid (lol, like that’s ever gonna be viable) is one-dimensional when it comes to stealth, and now objectively the worst set to have while in stealth, despite having the highest stealth uptime potential of them all. If your backstab gets negated by Aegis, invuln, blur, evades, or just from lagging a little you’ve just wasted six initiative on D/D, because it’s unlikely you’re getting another chance. The paired nerf to BV hurt the build even more, since now even CnD is unreliable as Mug will proc the venom and passive aegis/invulns/blocks/blurs/evades will fire. Now such a thief is down 6 initiative, left without stealth, CC, reliability, escape, and damage.

Quite frankly, there’s objectively no reason to play D/D right now except condi evade spam cancer Daredevil. I’d rather quit GW2 than be so embarrassed to put that and play that on my main thief.

D/D power is now in all regards, total trash. There’s not a single redeeming facet of the build now. I’m certainly shelving my thief and likely the game for a good long time because of just how bad it is except for spamming 1 in PvE.

Do what I do on my characters. Play ALL the weapons so I keep myself up to date. The only class I’m not really like that with is my ele. I don’t have much time on it tbh.

I’d rather play other games than play pretty much anything else on the class tbh. D/P is boring, staff is boring because DrD is boring, S/D can’t do enough damage to be fun, S/P is meh, I’m not a gunslinger to like P/P, P/D is condi cancer, and D/D condi is about as braindead as the game gets.

Despite proposing a rifle for my ES idea, I still wouldn’t play it. I picked rifle for a theme and because people wanted it (and now the concept for the IE trait and giving SA a source of aggression is dead in the water with the CD on stealth attacks) rather than my own interests. I played GW2 pretty much as a whole for D/D power and a bit for my glass cannon power reaper. Without the former or anything like it (not even close in the current game), I’d rather just not waste my time overall.

Where did this idea even come from anyway. Seems like a nerf out of nowhere. Don’t recall anyone complaining in the first place about thieves being able to backstab/etc multiple times.

Having a cd on the stealth attack is so awkward as every other skill in the thief’s kit doesn’t have a cd.

Midi.8359:

Where did this idea even come from anyway. Seems like a nerf out of nowhere. Don’t recall anyone complaining in the first place about thieves being able to backstab/etc multiple times.

Having a cd on the stealth attack is so awkward as every other skill in the thief’s kit doesn’t have a cd.

There was a thread a while ago 1 or 2 guys were complaining on this forum.
I guess because anet and everybody else thinks that VS being made baseline is “OP” they decided we need another nerf to “balance” it. Searched the forums and that was the only complaint in the past few months, other than trapper thief and condi D/D.

ETA: And yes, that are the reasons why I actually hate the GW2 forums – it’s a copy and paste matrix for the devs. In case of thief it’s mostly only nerfs though.
And: they needed VS outside of SA because people in raids think it’s a good idea to use it, but SA doesn’t have anything offensive anymore – so instead of reworking SA and make it useful again, they simply did this.

Ah. As much as I like the free venomshare this really sucks. You backstab/etc way more than you cast basilisk or other venoms. As fun as it is to try and get off a useful venom the clunkyness of the backstab/etc isn’t worth it.

Although, considering how long it took to get 10% on withdraw I think it’s something we’ll have to get used to. >_>

I don’t think venomshare thieves will be used in raids. The raids I have been in the people in my DPS party were all over the place anyway and for some reason most people refuse to understand how thief works – I guess only 2 of the 5 will be in range for VS. And: Every HoT class usually brings enough CC to fight for their own.
So what they did is to destroy thief some more for no reason.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

This patch is obviously about obliterating VA. It’s not about nerfing power builds nor about nerfing Venom Thief, it’s about getting rid of VA so that we can have meaningful tweaks from upcoming patches. The might from venom is horrible anyway so losing it is not a deal breaker especially when I’m not being forced to spec for VA anymore. Also the reduced application is not a nerf only because the venoms are now auto-share which is a big buff to the venom Thief build. Rending Shade is a welcome addition rather than buffing BT because it gives a Thief an option not to take Trick for boon strip.

I have nothing against removing Venomous Aura. However, if that is what the patch was about, they could have left out nerfs like reducing damage on Staff and adding a cooldown to Stealth Attacks. I was also hoping that those meaningful future tweaks would have been included in this patch instead of having to wait several more months.

As for venoms themselves, they only buffed their team-support by making venom share baseline. It was a partial-nerf to roaming Thieves that do not enter team fights. For example, I could hold an opponent off point for 2 seconds with Basilisk Venom, just long enough for me to decap a point. Or for 1 second if I missed with one shot. Now, I have only one chance to hit, and that half a second can be the difference between winning and losing… it has happened before. Do I care much about the change? No, it’s acceptable. The only venom I run is Basilisk because it’s the only elite worth running for a core Thief in PvP. But roaming venom Thieves may suffer more than I do. Not to mention that Might is Might… and very useful no matter the build.

I have nothing against Rending Shade. Though how much use it will get compared to Shadow’s Rejuvenation is yet to be seen. Especially with the added cooldown to Stealth Attacks.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Adding utility to Critical Strikes would have been welcome as well. ~snip~

That will not happen for obvious reasons. How can you strip a boon if your attack is blocked by Aegis? Having the Weakness debuff will make this an unwelcome change. A passive boon strip on stealth attack is the best solution because it grants boon strip even to non-crit builds like condition damage builds.

Or not so obvious reasons. How can you steal boons with Rending Shade if your attack is blocked by Aegis? I suppose since there is a cooldown now, Stealth Attacks could become unblockable.

I don’t understand what the problem is. Every other traitline has utility. Critical Strikes has virtually none. Yes, Weakness already counters Critical Strikes, but that doesn’t mean that critical hits shouldn’t grant utility. In my suggested changes to traitlines, I made Critical Strikes affect all damage, not just critical hits. But as it stands now, those of us who do run Critical Strikes are already lacking utility and also damage when we are weakened. That doesn’t mean that we should just delete the traitline.

Besides, non-crit Thieves should not be running Critical Strikes. They are better off with something like Shadow Arts. But crit-Thieves do have a used for Critical Strikes, though it is extremely lacking.

Again, I’m not anti-Rending Shade. It’s great if people can find use for it. But that doesn’t mean there should not also be the ability to destroy/steal boons inside Critical Strikes. Why? Because even though I run Trickery, I am forced to use Trickster instead of Bountiful Theft just in order to survive against conditions. It’s the only condition-removal that DA/CS/T offers.

Dangus.6572:

position properly? how many tries before 3sec of stealth wears off do you think thief have? I can answer – 1. So you spend all of your initiative for stealth and then you have 1 try.

This is my problem with it. 3 seconds of Stealth allows you only 2 Backstab attempts… and only if they are used immediately after entering and before exiting Stealth. Not to mention that if you use all of your initiative to enter Stealth, and you miss the Backstab, you have no other attack alternative. You can’t even auto-attack.

Sandrox.9524:

Thing is, this is the opposite of what thief was desgined for since weapon skills should have no cooldown.

Agreed. It feels completely foreign to the Thief.

Dahkeus.8243:

You have the question wrong: Before the nerf, why wouldn’t you just spam backstab without thinking? There was absolutely no reason not to since in best scenario it lands and in worst scenario it doesn’t and you try again immediately afterward while also likely removing an aegis or blind.

Now there’s actually a tactical moment of decision not only for the thief, but also for the person being attacked by the thief. The thief has to watch the target more closely and the target now actually has a reason to use a tactical aegis or AoE blind when they expect a stealth attack. It makes the game more complex in a good way.

Not when the Thief is already an inferior fighter to other professions. So what if a Thief could spam Backstab until it hits? It can only do damage one time before the Thief is Revealed. So what if it removed Aegis or Blind? Aegis/Blind performed its function… it protected the target from taking damage. Aegis also gave notice that there was an attack coming from Stealth, allowing the target to evade, run, or AoE itself.

Besides, why couldn’t hitting an Aegis just Reveal the Thief instead of putting a cooldown on Backstab? Now, the Thief can’t even auto-attack following a failed Backstab. The change was simply unneeded and implemented poorly. There are already too many imbalances against the Thief in today’s combat. I don’t understand why Thief players want an even harder time to stay relevant. There are already many ways to self-nerf yourself if you want to feel a sense of greater accomplishment.

TakeCare.3182:

The funny thing to me is that this doesn’t even really effect D/P.

Yes, it basically means more Stealth-Shadow Shot/Backstab combinations.

I think it’s a good change that really should have been in place since release. It always felt a little odd how I could just keep using backstab until it landed – although this was more of an issue pre-HoT when rotating backstabs was an actual viable playstyle.. I’ve managed to cope with having everything go on full cooldown if I attempt a burst from stealth with my shatter Mes, so I think a 1 second cooldown between backstab attempts is perfectly manageable.

Midi.8359:

Where did this idea even come from anyway. Seems like a nerf out of nowhere. Don’t recall anyone complaining in the first place about thieves being able to backstab/etc multiple times.

Having a cd on the stealth attack is so awkward as every other skill in the thief’s kit doesn’t have a cd.

What happened is the fella on the dev team who’s been lobbying for the nerf to backstab finally won out.

If everyone remembers that anet has slipped in multiple times missed stealth attacks cause reveal. They also had put in reveal being caused by simply having your stealth duration expire. It seems though once they added that kittenty new GM trait that dev was able to lobby this nerf on you all.

So I will start the slogan for you fellas,on this forum

#thieflivesmatter

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.

Gonna take your words for face value. Why “guess” when you can just play the class and realize it’s not that simple. I’m guessing that you haven’t yet, or that you at least didn’t when you made this post. Since you’re still “guessing” about what this nerf implies.

This change doesn’t just force you to be more careful when landing backstabs. It cuts out shadow shot -> backstab chains/attempts that can easily occur more than once per stealth. This isn’t a matter of adding more complexity to the game. You could always dodge/blink/invuln/what have you in reaction to the blind of a shadow shot before the backstab or default dagger strike. Now however, you no longer have the option to follow up with another shadow shot -> backstab, or just plain walk-up backstab after the first one misses. So this combo is pretty much useless as all it does is let your opponent know when to dodge your backstab.

Same thing goes for BP -> HS -> Steal backstab setups. The BP & HS tell means that the first backstab will more times than not miss against a competent player – as it always had before. You can pay all the attention you want, but you’re only gonna get one backstab in with the amount of stealth that combo gives you. And it’s only gonna take one aegis/dodge that SHOULD happen because of the tell to dodge that backstab.

Put another way, in the land of invulns, blinks, and dodges you can pay all the attention you want to your opponent. If you only have one backstab opportunity per stealth, any backstab combo that has a tell you won’t/shouldn’t land a backstab from. It’s not: “Oh I can outplay my opponent by waiting.” It’s a 3/4 second window where you have one shot that you’re gonna miss if your opponent wants you to miss it. I’m exaggerating a bit here. But no so much, and the feeling of control being out of your hands is definitely real. Also not a D/D player, but considering how C&D is pretty much a tell I can see where they’re coming from.

Also, side note is that this makes it to where you can no longer spam shots with the SB in stealth. So if you happen to misjudge a hitbox and accidentally hit the invisible ledge of a wall or fire out of range then you’re SOL. Not to mention that firing your bow once every second feels super clunky.

But yea, again took your words at face value. I thought the same thing when I first read the patch notes: “Oh just gotta be a bit more careful – no big deal. Counterplay – I like that.” Then I actually played a few rounds and realized that this nerf pretty much made it so that any backstab combo other than BP -> HS/Boundx3 didn’t/shouldn’t net me a backstab.

This is bullkitten. imagine your main attack would have 1sec cd after every failure to hit. And its so easy to get that failure. Targets tend to move, evade, blind, block attacks. Try to do it in group fights where aoe cc, and lots of stuff happening in a blink of eye. Try to backstab or any other attack from stealth. You jump in middle of group and you do no damage at all because your target has simply moved away slightly.

mrauls.6519:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.

This.

it affect staff hook strike too, if I missed on ppl too far away now I have to wait 1 sec and u know the server lag even if u are right next to them u get too far away error.

Taxidriver.2043:

it affect staff hook strike too, if I missed on ppl too far away now I have to wait 1 sec and u know the server lag even if u are right next to them u get too far away error.

Been a while since I ran power thief but I dusted off my power gear and took a stroll… wow does that ICD suck. My timing was off and I was surely rusty but I was hurting from Hook Strike and Backstab misses. Evade, block, etc basically negates the attack as stealth quickly runs out particularly with Backstab since it is a positional attack.

Kageseigi.2150:

I have nothing against removing Venomous Aura. However, if that is what the patch was about, they could have left out nerfs like reducing damage on Staff and adding a cooldown to Stealth Attacks.

The cooldown on stealth attack is negligible. I played for hours last night and never notice any “clunkiness” that a lot of people are having. As for the Staff damage nerf, it’s a necessary tweak to tone down the over-tweaked skills. The January patch gave these skills 15% – 36% damage increase — which are stupidly high.

As for venoms themselves, they only buffed their team-support by making venom share baseline. It was a partial-nerf to roaming Thieves that do not enter team fights.

Not really. If you’re already taking Leeching and VA for the CDR, this patch just opened up the GM slot. You don’t have to take RS if you don’t want to, you are no longer pigeon holed to take a GM trait that you don’t want. You can take SR if that works for your build, or take CiS for AoE blind.

For example, I could hold an opponent off point for 2 seconds with Basilisk Venom, just long enough for me to decap a point. Or for 1 second if I missed with one shot. Now, I have only one chance to hit, and that half a second can be the difference between winning and losing… it has happened before. Do I care much about the change? No, it’s acceptable. The only venom I run is Basilisk because it’s the only elite worth running for a core Thief in PvP. But roaming venom Thieves may suffer more than I do. Not to mention that Might is Might… and very useful no matter the build.

BV used to be only one charge and it was viable. For a lot of people, going back to one charge is not a big deal. In fact, if you’re running Leeching but not running VA before, if you opt in for SR instead, this change is an actual buff to your build because your build suddenly gets a lot better with the reduced cooldown and venom share without changing anything to your build. Yes, it’s suck when ran solo, but PvP is a team-based game and for ArenaNet making updates to encourage that is not a bad thing.

I have nothing against Rending Shade. Though how much use it will get compared to Shadow’s Rejuvenation is yet to be seen. Especially with the added cooldown to Stealth Attacks.

That really depends on how the meta will react to these changes. If the meta is still centered around stacking multiple boons, then RS will be the cause of their nightmare.

Or not so obvious reasons. How can you steal boons with Rending Shade if your attack is blocked by Aegis? I suppose since there is a cooldown now, Stealth Attacks could become unblockable.

The boons are stripped prior to hit, thus it’s not blocked, which is very different from a crit-base boon strip. If you can’t crit, you can’t boon strip, and before you can crit, you have to hit, and in order to hit, your attack should not be blocked. The stealth attack boons strip doesn’t have to jump all those hoops.

I don’t understand what the problem is. Every other traitline has utility. Critical Strikes has virtually none. Yes, Weakness already counters Critical Strikes, but that doesn’t mean that critical hits shouldn’t grant utility. In my suggested changes to traitlines, I made Critical Strikes affect all damage, not just critical hits. But as it stands now, those of us who do run Critical Strikes are already lacking utility and also damage when we are weakened. That doesn’t mean that we should just delete the traitline. Besides, non-crit Thieves should not be running Critical Strikes. They are better off with something like Shadow Arts. But crit-Thieves do have a used for Critical Strikes, though it is extremely lacking.

I agree that the trait line needs more utility, however boon strip will not work as you like it to be for the reasons I’ve pointed out above. I would like to see this traitline to have more CC and debuff conditions than buffs. It’s an offensive traitline after all, thus a trait like Invigorating Precision seems to be out of place.

Again, I’m not anti-Rending Shade. It’s great if people can find use for it. But that doesn’t mean there should not also be the ability to destroy/steal boons inside Critical Strikes. Why? Because even though I run Trickery, I am forced to use Trickster instead of Bountiful Theft just in order to survive against conditions. It’s the only condition-removal that DA/CS/T offers.

Condition removal/transfer on crit will work better for CS than boon strip and I’ll go behind that idea 100% — a Sigil of Generosity in CS line.

I play thief as a main char and this is really welcoming nerf.
As a non-meta s/p build, i have to pay attention what i do, instead of just mindlessly copying someone else’s builds.

Probably now 90% of d/p thieves will either qq on forum or spam #3 instead of adapting the situation.

That’s why you should learn the class, not just mindlessly copy metabuilds…

nah, i think most d/p thives will now go bound (a lot were already) and try to do that 1 trick pony combo.

Ikihiki.2316:

I play thief as a main char and this is really welcoming nerf.
As a non-meta s/p build, i have to pay attention what i do, instead of just mindlessly copying someone else’s builds.

Probably now 90% of d/p thieves will either qq on forum or spam #3 instead of adapting the situation.

That’s why you should learn the class, not just mindlessly copy metabuilds…

When did you switch from necro to thief? =)

Jana.6831:

It can’t be that hard to balance a game.

Pretty much explains everything you posted. =P

Jana.6831:

When did you switch from necro to thief? =)

I have had my thief much longer than i have had my necro. Also i have played more with thief, so what ever your point was, is not very valid.

Ikihiki.2316:

Jana.6831:

When did you switch from necro to thief? =)

I have had my thief much longer than i have had my necro. Also i have played more with thief, so what ever your point was, is not very valid.

I guess you know what my point is. I haven’t met any S/P thief in a while – no idea what your second set is, but S/P can live without stealth just fine, so of course this doesn’t affect you much.
Also: those who come to this forum and say “as a thief main I think this nerf promotes more skillful play” are usually the ones who want thief to be nerfed more – has worked in the past and likely will work now – that’s why I was asking.

ETA: And unfortunately that’s why I need to “ask” to highlight to the devs that people like this exist and that they shouldn’t blindly believe anything anyone says.

bleeeeh. who cares. just #3#3#3#3 and #4#4#4 to interrupt. Anet rly showed after HoT that stealth is not the way to go. so just use D/P but play with it like an old S/D style and focus on evading. besides there nothing more annoying then landing ur #4 at the perfect moment..

but srsly tho. this nerf wasnt needed. i was expecting a buff for thieves and yet we got nerfed.

I appreciate everyone’s strong and passionate feedback.

I actually had made a mistake, in which I had thought that even if a backstab was successful, or any attack in general was successful, we’d still be put on a 1 sec ICD. So that was my argument, that I had wrongly made, which I was corrected on, so thank you.

But in terms of missing a backstab or a hook for staff, None of you guys cant tell me that you haven’t spammed backstab in stealth to try to hunt another stealthed foe, and or spammed backstab because you thought you were close enough to land it, but your foe just so happened to be a tiny bit faster than you, while you both are in combat. Telling people to position themselves properly is good yes, but telling them they need to learn to play Thief because they’re unhappy with this change is not very constructive feedback. A lot of Thieves whether they like to admit it or not, have spammed backstab while stealthed, it was just something to do to keep you on the offensive. When you’re in Shadow refuge, to bait your enemy in and afterwards backstab them was something popular to do while acting as if you’re going on the defensive but really staying offensive.

With the way classes are now, Blocks, evades, Distortions, Blinds can take a backstab and take you from 100-0 quick.

I’ve gotten used to the playstyle now, although I still am not in favor of this change, It is something that i’ll have to adapt to, but who’s to stop a Thief from doing a Bound+steal combo. That will have to be a new opening strategy coming soon.

Jana.6831:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.

This.

Question is: Why do thieves have to spam backstab/why could they spam backstab before? The moment you can answer this will be the moment you do realize this was an unjustified nerf.

Because players are lazy and lack skill/timing therefor spamming without repercussion is easier for maximum profit?

Or something I guess.

Anyway, if you didnt see it, this related thread popped up on the mesmer forum. Instant classic

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/1s-ICD-for-Stealth-attacks/first

Ross Biddle.2367:

Jana.6831:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.

This.

Question is: Why do thieves have to spam backstab/why could they spam backstab before? The moment you can answer this will be the moment you do realize this was an unjustified nerf.

Because players are lazy and lack skill/timing therefor spamming without repercussion is easier for maximum profit?

Or something I guess.

Anyway, if you didnt see it, this related thread popped up on the mesmer forum. Instant classic

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/1s-ICD-for-Stealth-attacks/first

OMG you play thief! Upload a video of you playing your thief!

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Jana.6831:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.

This.

Question is: Why do thieves have to spam backstab/why could they spam backstab before? The moment you can answer this will be the moment you do realize this was an unjustified nerf.

Because players are lazy and lack skill/timing therefor spamming without repercussion is easier for maximum profit?

Or something I guess.

Anyway, if you didnt see it, this related thread popped up on the mesmer forum. Instant classic

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/1s-ICD-for-Stealth-attacks/first

OMG you play thief! Upload a video of you playing your thief!

If you’re refering to me, than you can always PM me in game AikijinX.6258 I don’t want to digress from the topic.

Main thief here too. While i don’t play D/D very often, it’s really a bit uncalled for such a long ICD for such short window. I have spammed the backstab , yeah, guilty of charge, but 1 sec might be way too much (even investing in SA for the extra sec) perhaps 1/2 sec should do it, so if we miss (let say, you thought you where close enough and missed) you still might have some window to correct your position … ideally i would love the ICD to not exist… but if it came to stay, at least give us a chance to work around it

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The boons are stripped prior to hit, thus it’s not blocked, which is very different from a crit-base boon strip. If you can’t crit, you can’t boon strip, and before you can crit, you have to hit, and in order to hit, your attack should not be blocked. The stealth attack boons strip doesn’t have to jump all those hoops.

You can see the problem with that logic, correct?
Rending Shade is based on Stealth Attacks. If a target has Aegis, how can the Stealth Attack land? If it doesn’t land, why should it steal a boon? Why should the boons be stolen before the attack successfully hits?

In that case, Rending Shade may as well be an AoE that Steals boons from a target within a small radius as opposed to a successful Stealth Attack.

And following in Stealth Attacks’ footsteps, there’s no reason why a would-be critical wouldn’t be able to steal/destroy Aegis before it does damage as well. It needs only a simple If/Then statement.

But in a worst case scenario, criticals could steal/destroy every boon other than Aegis. And if it only destroys boons, then any hit would destroy Aegis by its very nature. All very doable.

The way i see it, it is just another buff to classes with passives (because clearly they needed more of that). Backstab is already pretty worthless as far as correlation dmg to risk/setup effort goes. Now there is like 0 point using it besides nuking enemy thieves.

I am surprised it is 1 sec given how long aftercast is on bs which brings it to almost 2 sec CD. Might as well just delete backstab tbh.

SA is still unviable at higher levels since reveal applied by enemy is untouched. Changes to basi is probably only interesting thing.

Problem is everybody have aegis and 10 blocks.
How is that anymore skillful than stealth attacks?
Just making it not worth using theif at all. Even top teams dont use it.

Kageseigi.2150:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The boons are stripped prior to hit, thus it’s not blocked, which is very different from a crit-base boon strip. If you can’t crit, you can’t boon strip, and before you can crit, you have to hit, and in order to hit, your attack should not be blocked. The stealth attack boons strip doesn’t have to jump all those hoops.

You can see the problem with that logic, correct?
Rending Shade is based on Stealth Attacks. If a target has Aegis, how can the Stealth Attack land? If it doesn’t land, why should it steal a boon? Why should the boons be stolen before the attack successfully hits?

I don’t think it follows that logic. Just like Bountiful Theft, it doesn’t need to have a successful hit or an attack to land. Unlike Larcenous Strike, where the boon strip is bound to the skill itself, Rending Shade is a trait, not a skill, thus LS needs to connect thus it was made unblockable. Rending Shade functions the same as Bountiful Theft.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I don’t think it follows that logic. Just like Bountiful Theft, it doesn’t need to have a successful hit or an attack to land. Unlike Larcenous Strike, where the boon strip is bound to the skill itself, Rending Shade is a trait, not a skill, thus LS needs to connect thus it was made unblockable. Rending Shade functions the same as Bountiful Theft.

Why don’t you guys try it?
I haven’t but my buddy did and he said it doesn’t work on aegis.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I don’t think it follows that logic. Just like Bountiful Theft, it doesn’t need to have a successful hit or an attack to land. Unlike Larcenous Strike, where the boon strip is bound to the skill itself, Rending Shade is a trait, not a skill, thus LS needs to connect thus it was made unblockable. Rending Shade functions the same as Bountiful Theft.

Does Bountiful Theft require a successful Steal in order to steal boons? Enhancements when using Steal are still granted to the Thief even if there is no target (Swiftness, Might, Fury, Stealth, etc.), but will Bountiful Theft steal boons when evaded or blocked by non-Aegis skills?

Steal itself isn’t an attack, so it would make sense to bypass Aegis. However, Stealth Attacks are just that… attacks. If a normal Backstab is unsuccessful at penetrating Aegis, I don’t understand why a traited Backstab should preemptively steal Aegis before it successfully strikes the target… if it is actually based on striking the target. If it is not based on a successful strike, the boon-steal may just as well be an unblockable AoE.

Jana.6831:

Why don’t you guys try it?
I haven’t but my buddy did and he said it doesn’t work on aegis.

Probably the best way to go, haha!
Unfortunately, I was having bad luck getting any of the PvP lobby NPCs to use boons the other day.

Ps. Personally, I like the thought of changing Rending Shade to an AoE boon-steal that activates on Reveal, so any skill can take advantage of it. Hmm, perhaps 2 boons per target within a 240-radius?

Kageseigi.2150:

Ps. Personally, I like the thought of changing Rending Shade to an AoE boon-steal that activates on Reveal, so any skill can take advantage of it. Hmm, perhaps 2 boons per target within a 240-radius?

Thing is: this trait sounded good because it seemed as if it was something against all the passive protection flying around in game – a boonsteal at reveal won’t do much.
So in the end it looks as if we got a whole bunch of nerfs for nothing – cause don’t tell me that anyone who didn’t take a thief to raids would take them now (in two weeks when people have figured out that venom share is pretty useless). And the cooldown pretty much destroyed all stealth thieves.

I actually just realized something: remember when there was BS bug that made BS apply reveal regardless whether you hit something or not. I think it wasn’t bug at all but test run for the current change :|

I find that the 1 sec ICD on sneak attack is pretty much unwarranted for, considering that most of them have a cast time, coupled with a 1 sec ICD would make a single application of stealth only perform a single stealth attack. ICD could have been changed to a more manageable 0.5 sec.
Or maybe buff sneak attacks (dmg/condi duration/effect) to reflect that u can only use a single attack in a single application of stealth.

Cynz.9437:

I actually just realized something: remember when there was BS bug that made BS apply reveal regardless whether you hit something or not. I think it wasn’t bug at all but test run for the current change :|

I see you’ve read my previous post and agree.

Every time a passive or active block comes, or my beloved new 1s cooldown, I’m humming this song:

Just came back after a while to discover this change.
Just when i thought we started getting to a better place…
You got my vote. This change was terribly wrong imo, and should be changed back asap.
I’m out of pvp until then… :/

(BTW: good to see you guys are still active! )

Tried it again… it just killed Backstab and completely crushed anything left of D/D. Even staff took a hit and with their AA nerfs that weapon set is under performing as well.

Not much left in this class aside from killing weak or injured players.

Reem.3578:

Just came back after a while to discover this change.
Just when i thought we started getting to a better place…
You got my vote. This change was terribly wrong imo, and should be changed back asap.
I’m out of pvp until then… :/

(BTW: good to see you guys are still active! )

Sind dared to play thief for fun in tourney -> insta nerf to whole class lol. Now to actually efficiently use stealth attacks you would need some illegal 3rd party software to keep track of enemies INVISIBLE (w/o any tell/icon) defensive passives (and there are a lot of them). /slowclap

Reem.3578:

Just came back after a while to discover this change.
Just when i thought we started getting to a better place…
You got my vote. This change was terribly wrong imo, and should be changed back asap.
I’m out of pvp until then… :/

(BTW: good to see you guys are still active! )

Nice to see you’re back, I myself took abit of a break, but slowly and surely getting myself back up to speed.

This nerf should split into 2 parts or optional, because this was put into place to balance and counteract the new Grandmaster Shadow Arts Trait. Rendering Shade. Anet should simply devise a plan where anyone who wants to use that trait, gets penalized with this 1sec ICD. While reverting the ICD back to the way it was with people not using the trait.

Does anyone agree or disagree?

I may create a new thread about this suggestion, and go into further detail. I would love discussion if ever possible..

-Thanks guys for your feedback, and bumps.

AikijinX.6258:

This nerf should split into 2 parts or optional, because this was put into place to balance and counteract the new Grandmaster Shadow Arts Trait. Rendering Shade. Anet should simply devise a plan where anyone who wants to use that trait, gets penalized with this 1sec ICD. While reverting the ICD back to the way it was with people not using the trait.

Hmm, now that makes me think. Now that there is a cooldown to Stealth Attacks, does that mean we can do away we the whole self-Revealed mechanic after successfully landing a Stealth Attack?

For example, if a Thief is in Stealth, and hits a target with Heartseeker, then the Thief is self-Revealed. But if a Thief in Stealth hits a target with Backstab, the Thief remains in Stealth.

Basically, it means that Stealth can be kept for its full duration, but at the cost of less damage (one attack per second).

AikijinX.6258:

Reem.3578:

Just came back after a while to discover this change.
Just when i thought we started getting to a better place…
You got my vote. This change was terribly wrong imo, and should be changed back asap.
I’m out of pvp until then… :/

(BTW: good to see you guys are still active! )

Nice to see you’re back, I myself took abit of a break, but slowly and surely getting myself back up to speed.

This nerf should split into 2 parts or optional, because this was put into place to balance and counteract the new Grandmaster Shadow Arts Trait. Rendering Shade. Anet should simply devise a plan where anyone who wants to use that trait, gets penalized with this 1sec ICD. While reverting the ICD back to the way it was with people not using the trait.

Does anyone agree or disagree?

I may create a new thread about this suggestion, and go into further detail. I would love discussion if ever possible..

-Thanks guys for your feedback, and bumps.

This would actually be a great idea and would open a realm of possibilities.

Mind if I link this to reddit?

DeceiverX.8361:

AikijinX.6258:

Reem.3578:

Just came back after a while to discover this change.
Just when i thought we started getting to a better place…
You got my vote. This change was terribly wrong imo, and should be changed back asap.
I’m out of pvp until then… :/

(BTW: good to see you guys are still active! )

Nice to see you’re back, I myself took abit of a break, but slowly and surely getting myself back up to speed.

This nerf should split into 2 parts or optional, because this was put into place to balance and counteract the new Grandmaster Shadow Arts Trait. Rendering Shade. Anet should simply devise a plan where anyone who wants to use that trait, gets penalized with this 1sec ICD. While reverting the ICD back to the way it was with people not using the trait.

Does anyone agree or disagree?

I may create a new thread about this suggestion, and go into further detail. I would love discussion if ever possible..

-Thanks guys for your feedback, and bumps.

This would actually be a great idea and would open a realm of possibilities.

Mind if I link this to reddit?

Yes of course by all means. Reddit will open this question/suggestion to a new realm of people

Thank You Deceiver (:

DeceiverX.8361:

AikijinX.6258:

Reem.3578:

Just came back after a while to discover this change.
Just when i thought we started getting to a better place…
You got my vote. This change was terribly wrong imo, and should be changed back asap.
I’m out of pvp until then… :/

(BTW: good to see you guys are still active! )

Nice to see you’re back, I myself took abit of a break, but slowly and surely getting myself back up to speed.

This nerf should split into 2 parts or optional, because this was put into place to balance and counteract the new Grandmaster Shadow Arts Trait. Rendering Shade. Anet should simply devise a plan where anyone who wants to use that trait, gets penalized with this 1sec ICD. While reverting the ICD back to the way it was with people not using the trait.

Does anyone agree or disagree?

I may create a new thread about this suggestion, and go into further detail. I would love discussion if ever possible..

-Thanks guys for your feedback, and bumps.

This would actually be a great idea and would open a realm of possibilities.

Mind if I link this to reddit?

Drop the link here so we can all read it

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4vpazy/pvpwvwfixing_thief_with_the_icd_on_stealth_skills/

I like that you swear over there!
But you guys really should turn the suggestion into a new thread.

I don’t answer to ANet on reddit (I learned recently from a friend that they do not have the authority to have extending moderation staff and answer to reddit themselves, which enforces free speech), and to be honest, I’ve actually given up on the game so long as this change is here, so I really don’t care if people get upset with the language. Cat ‘em, like the over-sensitive folks here who can’t take some honest criticism. I hope all this time you’ve not thought I’d just had a particular liking for baby cats, either :P