It’s not that I created at least 3 topics within the past nearly two years and mention it whenever it’s slightly on topic *sigh – so here again:
Mobs and players just run through CnD. They didn’t use to before February 2015. I guess the hit frame of CnD is that small that one is lucky if it hits. Combined with steal it’s a pretty much guaranteed hit – as a single skill you have to be very very lucky to “land” it.
I guess it’s very easy for anet to estimate the time frame CnD hits, so they don’t need video proof (yeah I’m lazy) – the problem is: If no one knows how CnD should work (= no thief dev around), then 0,0001 µs might seem fair.
My take on CnD is entirely anecdotal so this is probably due to how I play but I seem to more reliably land CnD when I graze or circle strafe someone un-targeted. I mostly play WvW and in our matchup we can get some laggy fights, Steal will put you right on top of them in range instantly. It’s probably old muscle memory from other games and laggy pvp modes but I usually play un-targeted unless I’m managing target stacks so I’m trying to play a step, turn, cast, whatever ahead of them. If I try to play fully on target and play keep-up that lag is going to deceive me about where they’re at sometimes.
You might try not being too deliberate with CnD and push your muscle memory to handle that skill for you, you’ll end up not even noticing that you’re using it mostly, that way you might keep ahead of what the game is showing you a bit.
It’s better, thanks anet.
Was busy with the JP over the holidays, so it took me a while to see how combat changed.
@ Deceiver: It’s about moving targets. If your usual combo was: signetsignetsignet steal+CnD target down then you likely didn’t notice it.
And sorry I’m bumping this, I just think it would be unfair to not give a positive feedback on a positive change.
ETA: There is one video in which it is very clear. It was taken 2 years ago but isn’t in my possession. I should’ve recorded it again, I know, but I’m kind of in a love/hate relationship with this game and recording, editing, uploading is more hassle than to write another topic. Sorry.
Thing is… c&D is worse than ever on any build since the stealth attack cooldown nerf. It indirectly nerfed c&D by a huge amount, it devestated the offensice use of the skill. If the opponent neglects your stealth attack by any way, be it aegis, evade, whatever it has a huge time gap ready to take a breath and regen. Sealth attacks dont turn back to autohits once they miss so you are locked with q on cooldown, mening you have to waste further initiative to keep up pressure. (+ 3sec window makes you rely on one max 2 opportunitys to land backstab or whatever)
Nerfing sword and sb stealth attack together with backstab was totally unnecessary. This made offensice c&D for builds like s/d even more risky than before. c&D can still find some defensive use, but the skill needed some love even before this… feels like ANet went with the “easy way” once again, without looking into the situation
Maybe they will change it in the next balance patch.
Lately, their politic on thief was to tune it bit by bit. We got pistol main-hand(AA damages ?? and CS trait) and dagger offhand (bouncing dagger). They could follow with a CnD tuning….
Or nerf PI
main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
(mesmer ) – EU [Teef]
for 6 inative, and only useable in melee range or 130 range shall i say – i am more annoyed at the 1.187 dmg mod on it :-/. think i hit a full berserker thief the other day for a whopping 4k, and i am running pretty much full glass my self.
Fat Disgrace (banned) Man Flu Survivor – war/The Cabbage -Thief (gunners hold / [TaG])
But this was a ‘bug’? which has been in game since early February 2015. It was a huge nerf to CnD and no one noticed it.
The rest needs to be looked at as well, of course, also the positioning bugs. No idea if there’s other classes who get a bonus if they hit their target from behind/the side but a lot of thief’s ‘promised potential’ is silently nerfed by game bugs. And I have no idea why they tinkered with CnD in that patch, it was just the new years event.
ETA: It might well be that the ‘bug’ is still in game – I need running targets to test it and I quit wvw. Running PvE mobs are pretty rare. The few I tested it on it worked now.
It’s better, thanks anet.
Was busy with the JP over the holidays, so it took me a while to see how combat changed.
@ Deceiver: It’s about moving targets. If your usual combo was: signetsignetsignet steal+CnD target down then you likely didn’t notice it.
And sorry I’m bumping this, I just think it would be unfair to not give a positive feedback on a positive change.
ETA: There is one video in which it is very clear. It was taken 2 years ago but isn’t in my possession. I should’ve recorded it again, I know, but I’m kind of in a love/hate relationship with this game and recording, editing, uploading is more hassle than to write another topic. Sorry.
Not even. I play S/D heavily for diving large groups of players to force cooldowns just before fights begin and thus rarely burn anything until I intend to go in for the kill. In this game state more than one backstab is typically also necessary, and I’ve had no issues with CnD failing except when admittedly out of range.
But this was a ‘bug’? which has been in game since early February 2015. It was a huge nerf to CnD and no one noticed it.
The rest needs to be looked at as well, of course, also the positioning bugs. No idea if there’s other classes who get a bonus if they hit their target from behind/the side but a lot of thief’s ‘promised potential’ is silently nerfed by game bugs. And I have no idea why they tinkered with CnD in that patch, it was just the new years event.
ETA: It might well be that the ‘bug’ is still in game – I need running targets to test it and I quit wvw. Running PvE mobs are pretty rare. The few I tested it on it worked now.
I recall you mentioning this issue more then once. I just reached the point where I stopped trying to use CnD because the number of fails just made it so not worth the INI.
I will try it again and see if i can do better.
Other bugs that hit us hard are the "no valid path’ ones that IMHO went way up after a patch.
again, same with X. very rarly do i miss my CnD unless it was wither blcked/blinded/dodged or out of 130 range.
You once told me you only use CnD with steal.
The guy who has the video consequently does the opposite of what I’m asking him for, I know he’s reading this, but I also know he won’t post it. Granted: He’s not signed up on the forums.
@ Deceiver: I have no idea how you play, maybe the two of us are playing differently. A D/D buddy of mine (who was as good as me back in the day, we both quit any pvp related stuff) told me that he wants to learn how to never miss a CnD, like me (he told me after the bug but we last played before the bug). If I had had any idea that I have been exceptional I would’ve recorded some videos.
@ babazhook: I guess any offhand dagger is still a pain in wvw/pvp – but I’m curious about your findings =)
Yes I play both p/d in a condition build and s/d in a power build. I am hoping that the next patch will apply some of those changes in PvP to WvW and then will test each much more extensively with CnD.
(I am still trying to get a s/d build with SA and the new RS to work but my CnD fails held me back. Maybe it is just me but I do seem to recall it being easier)
I just tested CnD again (in PvE) – it’s definitively better. I discovered mobs I’ve never seen before who were moving ultra fast.
If the next patch has got some nice balance changes I might give wvw another go – but I’m seriously pretty burned out.
ETA: Everybody just ran through my CnD, mobs, players, in pvp and wvw but wvw is such a mess that it’s pretty hard to tell what exactly is wrong and I can’t really remember the last duels or if I or the enemy were alive for long enough so that there was a situation in which they ran through my CnD.
I recorded some gameplay and immediately remembered why I usually don’t record/upload.
So, this is how I play thief, I triggered situations in which the last 2 years my CnD would’ve missed. Nearly everything that isn’t combined with steal would’ve been a guaranteed miss. I guess it was multiple reasons that led to this as CnD has already become better, the camera movement is a factor, the positioning bugs are a factor and also the timeframe for CnD to hit and I guess that was too short.
I miss several CnDs in that video, only the miss at 4.23 is weird, everything else was out of range.
I got used to this “gameplay” over the time, just when I had some mob really simply running through my CnD again I created this thread.
Long story short: If your playstyle with OH dagger is similar to mine and you didn’t miss about 80% of all targets the past 2 years then I don’t know.
ETA: In case this was a joke: There are actually mobs who technically can dodge: GS warrior mobs, e.g.. Question is if the 3/4 timeframe was legitimately long enough to evade my CnD every time or if it was my messed up CnD. I guess the latter.
Anyway: This video was taken after it seems to have been fixed and is just to demonstrate my playstyle, because I don’t think that I have been the only one who had this.
But none of you believed me, the guy I took that video with didn’t believe me.. so I had no real intention to frustrate myself with recording more videos to prove something no one believed me anyway even if it was plain to see = I had given up. And I bet the answers will be “I play just like you and never had any problems” and would’ve been also if I had footage in which I miss every CnD. No offense but I know the players in this game ; )
thing is… if you feel like you gonna miss c&D you can just stow weapon it. In pve you dont even need to worry about it getting random dodged/blocked/aegis’d/blinded.
thing is… if you feel like you gonna miss c&D you can just stow weapon it. In pve you dont even need to worry about it getting random dodged/blocked/aegis’d/blinded.
It’s about something else – it’s not about “uhhh I’m gonna miss” but “Yeah, I got this, I’ll land. WHY THE kitten DID I MISS???”
IF it were about being about to miss, I would’ve had to stove my CnD every time my steal was on cooldown for the past 2 years (exaggerated – CnD still hit if the target was standing still).
“Yeah, I got this, I’ll land. WHY THE kitten DID I MISS???”
99,9% of times you run towards your target with swiftness and he is running towards you you try to c&D, but you continue pressing forward. This leads to you two running through each others modells and c&D hits air behind your target. This can happen even if you precast it with steal,but with inperfect timing.
“Yeah, I got this, I’ll land. WHY THE kitten DID I MISS???”
99,9% of times you run towards your target with swiftness and he is running towards you you try to c&D, but you continue pressing forward. This leads to you two running through each others modells and c&D hits air behind your target. This can happen even if you precast it with steal,but with inperfect timing.
Would you do me a favour? Read what this thread is about and answer if you have to add something on that topic instead of assuming that you know what this is all about? =)
ETA: And with that I’m out again – see you in a few months or next time I rage quit because of some game bug.
So long.
ETA: In case this was a joke: There are actually mobs who technically can dodge: GS warrior mobs, e.g.. Question is if the 3/4 timeframe was legitimately long enough to evade my CnD every time or if it was my messed up CnD. I guess the latter.
Anyway: This video was taken after it seems to have been fixed and is just to demonstrate my playstyle, because I don’t think that I have been the only one who had this.
But none of you believed me, the guy I took that video with didn’t believe me.. so I had no real intention to frustrate myself with recording more videos to prove something no one believed me anyway even if it was plain to see = I had given up. And I bet the answers will be “I play just like you and never had any problems” and would’ve been also if I had footage in which I miss every CnD. No offense but I know the players in this game ; )
Only thing I can find is that your sense of distance could be different than others or your timing gained subtle changes over time. Maybe you are used to a timing which is at the very border of the hit box, you get it right most of the time but a terrain irregularity or any other thing gets you slightly off.
main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
(mesmer ) – EU [Teef]
Fun fact: All of you stopped watching at the spiders
Should’ve gone on – the running mobs come afterwards and that were the ones I missed every. single. time.
I genuinely don’t have an answer for the mob in Orr. I’ve never had it happen to me before. All I can think of is some kind of lag/extrapolation or latency spike; the mob’s running behavior made no sense, either.
I genuinely don’t have an answer for the mob in Orr. I’ve never had it happen to me before. All I can think of is some kind of lag/extrapolation or latency spike; the mob’s running behavior made no sense, either.
I had that everywhere and with the majority of mobs and players, although the latter is hard to estimate because there’s no real duels anymore (nearly no one runs solo since June 2015) and 2 years is quite a while – I partly got used to it and anet fixed some of the issues that lead to it, apperantly. Right before and after the stealth attack cooldown it really was worst, the gameplay as a thief was downright frustrating. Be it no field of view, failed backstabs for whatever reason, not landing any other hit. The running/moving target problem was since February 2015 and the rest detoriated.
If feels pretty good now again. But I’m cautious, I guess.
ETA: I promise though, that when my game is weird the next time, I’ll force myself to record it. Not just for you guys :P, but maybe some dev stumbles across it, that would be awesome.
