Guild Wars 2

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/

WTF?! Seriously! WTF? umm warning to anet: im done spending money on this game lately bc of all the horrendous decisions that have been made not just to thief class but the game. This game was obviously dumbed down from gw1 so it can reach a broader consumer range, which is fine and smart in a economic minded interest. However, alot of players miss the choice of build where there were millions of combinations of builds/armors/stats etc. now we only have traits and attack builds are preset according to weapon choice. Ok , whatever its still playable and fun because its a players skill/response time and choices in wvw/pvp that make it fun. I played Monk as main in gw1 and sin as my 2nd favorite. There is no monk…a huge decision to cut healing reliance on one person and spread to each’s own character as self reliant. Thief needed some nerfs but we have received a couple dozen (some arguable uneeded/overdone).
The First and only real buff we got was to FS/LS on a pretty sup par weapon that is slow and clunky with medium at best dmg. Dont get me wrong we love it. But we keep getting promised things that have not been done yet: Making us the most slippery class(we are close), making us the most mobile(in 3rd place but still could be made 1st with few small changes and i mean excluding nerfs to others), and also buffing our base dmg to help be able to choose diff traits and not be so reliant on berserker gear or the 30 30 0 0 10 setup. None of these have happened yet we keep getting nerfed, and stealth already took a big debuff with the arrowcarts being able to remove stealth. no stealth can only be used in open areas. (given another month or so when people start investing points into arrowcarts) NOW….we are giving out traps that remove stealth? wow…seriously keep making our defense worse…..idk how you have the time to keep making thieves worse when all these changes are promised to help them. Thieves IMO are not a choice for TPVP and have basically 1 role in wvw (venom share or Maybe scouting). You cant even shadow step across a trap without setting it off…… so all a player has to do is keep crossing it while we are invis? ok cmon ….. i wonder what happens if several people chain them …hrm. Im done just so tired of not having fun. i mean roaming is cool but we wanna do more than that. being useful/needed would be nice to hear when you see a LFG dungeon or when setting up wvw raids with individual battalions setup to be balanced .

This is just my 2 cents and yo u may of course agree or disagree. But what do you think about these “Anti-Stealth Traps”? Are they good? bad? explain .

The anti-stealth is not a trap, it’s a field. I assume it will be liken to Asura’s racial skill: Radiation Field.

EDIT:
Just to clarify. They are adding 2 things;
1) “anti-stealth fields”
2) “traps that remove supply from enemy players”

Can we get fields that remove invuln/block/protection/etc?

I see this as only fair.

swinsk.6410:

Can we get fields that remove invuln/block/protection/etc?

I see this as only fair.

Or a trap that instantly deals 10,000 damage to any Warriors that pass through and apply 15 stacks of Vulnerability.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The anti-stealth is not a trap, it’s a field. I assume it will be liken to Asura’s racial skill: Radiation Field.

EDIT:
Just to clarify. They are adding 2 things;
1) “anti-stealth fields”
2) “traps that remove supply from enemy players”

a field? even worse. how about a field that is like swirling winds size (400radius) and you cant make any minions or clones or ele summons in it) ….why are they making our ONLY defense even worse when they are “supposed” to be working on making it better so we can participate in wvw and larger fights in tpvp"????

Watch they will still call for nerfs even with this, it never ends and never will.

well lets put it this way. with multiple fields up by multiple players…..what defense will a thief then have? what role? this has to hurt their money as thieves wont spend money on a game they cant play/play well or at all :P idk

Travlane.5948:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The anti-stealth is not a trap, it’s a field. I assume it will be liken to Asura’s racial skill: Radiation Field.

EDIT:
Just to clarify. They are adding 2 things;
1) “anti-stealth fields”
2) “traps that remove supply from enemy players”

a field? even worse. how about a field that is like swirling winds size (400radius) and you cant make any minions or clones or ele summons in it) ….why are they making our ONLY defense even worse when they are “supposed” to be working on making it better so we can participate in wvw and larger fights in tpvp"????

Well, if it’s a field, then we can see where they are and circumvent them — so it is not targeted on Thieves.

I can see where they are going with this. Strategically, these fields can be used to funnel Stealth Zergs. Tactically, these fields can be placed on top of dead bodies to see stealth rezzes.

Travlane.5948:

well lets put it this way. with multiple fields up by multiple players…..what defense will a thief then have? what role? this has to hurt their money as thieves wont spend money on a game they cant play/play well or at all :P idk

That’s really not a valid point. With all the siege engines around, what role does non-stealth profession have? See what I mean?

It seems that these fields will be like a siege engine that you have to build with supplies. Since it only makes sense to use a trap that removes supplies as a counter to this.

As for me, I’ll wait and see.

Let’s wait to see how this is implemented before we bash them. If it is a field like the Radiation Field from the Rata Sum rune, then this is not a game changer in the least. A thief will simply sit back and hit from afar. If the enemy decides to stay in there, then oh well. They can sit there all they like. In fact, I’d probably just get more thieves, have them all equip scorpion wire, and play Tug-O-War.

Suralin.3947:

Let’s wait to see how this is implemented before we bash them. If it is a field like the Radiation Field from the Rata Sum rune, then this is not a game changer in the least. A thief will simply sit back and hit from afar. If the enemy decides to stay in there, then oh well. They can sit there all they like. In fact, I’d probably just get more thieves, have them all equip scorpion wire, and play Tug-O-War.

sit in there and hit them from afar? and miss 75% chance with sb? :P well i could see if they have like a 90 sec recharge….or only lasted like 1 second or something idk….what i FEEL might happen is a larger radiation circle up for like 8 -12 seconds that removes all stealth on a low recharge.
you guys know arrow carts can remove stealth now…so in like 2 weeks you will see no stealth withing 3000 range of any arrow cart. every zerg v zerg fight an AC will be dropped. its going to change the norm . and withotu stealth we are dead :P. theresbasically only 1 build right now that can even go into a zerg and fight/survive….now we will have no chance. just my thoughts.

EDIT: even if they are small….combined with another small change like arrow carts really adds up. if they are going to trash stealth even more i would be ok if they gave us a trait passive that gave us 50% less endurance used per dodge or a traitable "when hit for 10% or more of your HP you roll backwars 900 range and heal for 800-1k hp with a 450 hp regen attached or something like that. idk just ideas but what im saying is they gotta compromise or nobody is giong to play thief at all. its practically like that now other than a few useless roamers using s/d making videos of them killing a few strays.

IMO this will really depend on how its implemented and how big the radius is. Also how it gets planted or how much supply is needed to build it and is it visible. If its visible and cost a decent amount to make I doubt it will be a big issue other then maybe in camps.

My only gripe with it will be how it handles stealth skills like backstab. If it take you out of stealth and I can’t use stealth skills, your effectively nerfing the class if they hit one of these fields. But thats all speculation, guess we get to wait and/or keep guessing.

Preview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHD_woopPu4

Zikory.6871:

IMO this will really depend on how its implemented and how big the radius is. Also how it gets planted or how much supply is needed to build it and is it visible. If its visible and cost a decent amount to make I doubt it will be a big issue other then maybe in camps.

My only gripe with it will be how it handles stealth skills like backstab. If it take you out of stealth and I can’t use stealth skills, your effectively nerfing the class if they hit one of these fields. But thats all speculation, guess we get to wait and/or keep guessing.

exactly…nerfing the class…but again we dont know yet. id be ok with it if it cost like 20 supply to set the trap or something….idk just seems like atleast then it would take away from a zergs ability to attack/defend and yet 1 person can build it alone right? id be ok with that bc it cant be used in a 1 v 1 and also costs a price for zerg! what ya think?

I would like to tell you that Thief stealth is only one part of the gameplay, it progressively became crucial to the class because it was grossly overpowered, then because it was the only option left. Now to buff the other Thief assets and utility skills, well… It would be refreshing to get raise the viability of non-stealth Thieves which is close to nonexistant.

MrForz.1953:

I would like to tell you that Thief stealth is only one part of the gameplay, it progressively became crucial to the class because it was grossly overpowered, then because it was the only option left. Now to buff the other Thief assets and utility skills, well… It would be refreshing to get raise the viability of non-stealth Thieves which is close to nonexistant.

thief stealth is one part yes. its also the only defense. nobody said it was the only facet of thief. but it is the only real defense we have.

0 blocks
0 invulnerability
0 protection
0 stability
2nd lowest Hp pool
squishiest class in game regardless of build

so stealth is the only defense. our healing…condition removal…blinds and attacks/get aways are all tied to it. its always been our only defense. well i guess you could say back when thief was op backstabbing for 20k….the best defense was a super strong offense. but after the nerfs we only have stealth. and yes it would be nice to have a choice between stealth and osmething else. seems the devs/ anet team is too busy nerfing rather than fixing :P

Again a direct nerf to thieves…..just remake the class into the classic assassin and just maybe less people will moan.

I dno, the cost would really depend on a lot of things, like its size. Can it cover a camp? Thus stopping any chance at a thief “ninjaing” a camp. How long does it last and can it be destroyed?

I think the size of it will make the difference on how good it is. If its fairly small, you would have to guess where a Mesmer will portal bomb you or where the zerg is going to veil from.

If you think Thief’s only defense is stealth then you need to actually read the Thief forums. There are several people that have even posted non-stealth videos where they instead make use of the massive amounts of evasion the Thief class can have at its disposal.

Think outside the box, don’t just agree with what every bad/average thief says. This is why the Mesmer community has come up with so many powerful builds… they keep innovating instead of just agreeing with each other on a single build or even on what the Mesmer is good/bad at.

Also, Mesmers make use of Stealth as well … I’m not seeing massive amount of griping from them … just from class that is the usual source of most griping.

Anti Stealth Traps?

Travlane.5948:

well lets put it this way. with multiple fields up by multiple players…..what defense will a thief then have? what role? this has to hurt their money as thieves wont spend money on a game they cant play/play well or at all :P idk

This is the real issue. A group of maybe 10 players can deny thieves access to areas by covering it with traps. The comparison to siege weapons above is irrelevant, cause thieves are also already hit by everything that hits non-stealthed players. This change specifically targets the thief’s main defense mechanism.

If their were issues with stealth, they should address them with class changes; not some lazy WvW-only fix that breaks the class. Stealth is already limited by time constraints. They could further limit it by diminishing returns on stealth to prevent stacking skills that grant stealth (just like they should introduce DR on crowd control like every other MMO, but that’s another story).

I’m not sure why ANet tries to be different than every other MMO and tries to reinvent the wheel over and over again. They caved in by limiting AOE like other MMO’s, here they should look into DRs’s. The solution with traps is just totally the wrong approach.

Travlane.5948:

thief stealth is one part yes. its also the only defense. nobody said it was the only facet of thief. but it is the only real defense we have.

0 blocks
0 invulnerability
0 protection
0 stability
2nd lowest Hp pool
squishiest class in game regardless of build

so stealth is the only defense. our healing…condition removal…blinds and attacks/get aways are all tied to it. its always been our only defense. well i guess you could say back when thief was op backstabbing for 20k….the best defense was a super strong offense. but after the nerfs we only have stealth. and yes it would be nice to have a choice between stealth and osmething else. seems the devs/ anet team is too busy nerfing rather than fixing :P

That’s not entirely true. We have access to Evade that is better than Block, and we have access to Blind that is better than Invulnerability. Our Dagger Storm deals damage, reflect projectile and stabilizes with 30s CD — in addition to stealth and shadow step.

So I have to disagree with everything you have said.

Morrar.1764:

This is the real issue. A group of maybe 10 players can deny thieves access to areas by covering it with traps. The comparison to siege weapons above is irrelevant, cause thieves are also already hit by everything that hits non-stealthed players. This change specifically targets the thief’s main defense mechanism.

I have to disagree with you since we don’t know any detail what “anti-stealth” really mean.

- It could mean a pulsing wave that leave a silhouette of a thief for 1s.
- It could also mean that they can see our transparent figures.
- It could also mean that it completely reveal us and root us in place.

The fact is, we still don’t know and it’s to darn early to freak out about it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Morrar.1764:

This is the real issue. A group of maybe 10 players can deny thieves access to areas by covering it with traps. The comparison to siege weapons above is irrelevant, cause thieves are also already hit by everything that hits non-stealthed players. This change specifically targets the thief’s main defense mechanism.

I have to disagree with you since we don’t know any detail what “anti-stealth” really mean.

- It could mean a pulsing wave that leave a silhouette of a thief for 1s.
- It could also mean that they can see our transparent figures.
- It could also mean that it completely reveal us and root us in place.

The fact is, we still don’t know and it’s to darn early to freak out about it.

But but but … if they so much as suggest that they’re going to add a second to anything thief-related it’s the end of the world ;-)

“Can we get fields that remove invuln/block/protection/etc?”

I don’t know, how about we get skills on our weapons that steal boons from the opponents? Cheap, repeatable, can be used anywhere, but that would never happen would it?

Rafahil.2857:

Again a direct nerf to thieves…..just remake the class into the classic assassin and just maybe less people will moan.

Nah then they’d just complain about how OP the damage is and how shadowsteps are a broken game mechanic that should never exist in the first place etc etc etc.

Really gotta wait and see what the anti-stealth field is going to be like.

seb stealth is as core to the thief defense as evade is, if you trait for one or the other you get better use out of either but your still really relying on both to match other people. The acrobat traits give us good evades but generally not the best.

They act like stealth is a toggle that activates for as long as you want it to. I find it to be a very strange thing to add. Why not just use damaging AOE traps instead of making traps that target a specific class?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Travlane.5948:

thief stealth is one part yes. its also the only defense. nobody said it was the only facet of thief. but it is the only real defense we have.

0 blocks
0 invulnerability
0 protection
0 stability
2nd lowest Hp pool
squishiest class in game regardless of build

so stealth is the only defense. our healing…condition removal…blinds and attacks/get aways are all tied to it. its always been our only defense. well i guess you could say back when thief was op backstabbing for 20k….the best defense was a super strong offense. but after the nerfs we only have stealth. and yes it would be nice to have a choice between stealth and osmething else. seems the devs/ anet team is too busy nerfing rather than fixing :P

That’s not entirely true. We have access to Evade that is better than Block, and we have access to Blind that is better than Invulnerability. Our Dagger Storm deals damage, reflect projectile and stabilizes with 30s CD — in addition to stealth and shadow step.

So I have to disagree with everything you have said.

Vincent have you ever played thief? Every class has access to evade but it is true we do have better access. It is not better than block though as someone can block and still attack/be offensive whereas when someone is evading, they are dealing 0 dmg. Also, don’t forget, everyone has access to evade. It’s not a class mechanic. You also have to be active to be evading where which block, it’s usually just passive (mostly thinking about guardians here). Invulnerability is multiple hits where nothing can hurt you from any thing. Blinds only help you vs the few targets that might be affected while you’re still vulnerable to anything outside of the smoke field. Blind is also only 1 attack then it’s gone. You could have a 30s duration blind but after 1s it’s all gone. Dagger storm has a 90 second cd, not 30. The reflect is decent but it’s only a self reflect so it’s very selfish. At least with ele, they can give their self-reflect to the entire team, warrior self reflect also makes them basically invuln, engi self-reflect also has a knockback. The damage it does it pretty junk though. If you use it against a single target, you’ll be lucky to get 5 hits over the course of is entire duration. It’s really only good when you’re surrounded.

Also @ trav, thief has the lowest hp pool, not the 2nd lowest. Since all 3 light armor classes have good access to invulns and/or protection and 2/3 have higher hp pools, thief has the lowest defense in the game.

The only way to survive as long as other classes is to abuse evasion with the help of sigil or energy and a using all of our traits/utilities to spec for dodging. This can be a very strong troll build for surviving but you’ll be giving up a lot more than what most other classes need in order to survive just as well.

If thief survival was so bad, we wouldn’t see so many of them roaming freely in WvW and filling up sPvP.

If thief had to invest so much “just to survive”, I also doubt we’d see as many glass cannon thieves as we do.

As far as the traps. I’m imagining this would be something that may also require supply, and operates a bit like Ranger traps … enemy can’t see them.

I can also see it as being something that is triggered even when the enemy is not stealthed. It’d be quite useful for stopping a stealthed mesmer from sneaking past a choke point to drop a portal. I imagine that’s actually what they are aiming for more than harming thieves.

Currently, it’s somewhat difficult to hold a position outside of a tower/keep because you can get flanked by an invis’d/portal’d enemy force. These traps may change that and create possibilities for new scenarios to occur in WvW.

Probably they just realized that Thief roamers are too strong.
Don’t be childish, everyone should have felt like cheating while roaming in WvWvW. This change can only be good.

The world does not end, stealth is still there. You just have to be more careful when roaming around killing poor upleveled newbies.

I find it incredibly odd that every profession forum each thinks:

1. Their class is the worst in the game.
2. A-Net is out to destroy their class.
3. Every other class has so many better options than their own, and should be nerfed.

It’s funny.

Maybe, sorrow, but I still think it is aimed at helping hold positions outside of towers/keeps as currently combat is getting somewhat stale with what we can/can’t do very successfully resulting in many of the same fights.

That said, I do agree that Thief roaming is ridiculous. A thief’s “hard counter” is hitting their head against a solid wall till they kill their self. This is not hard to avoid doing.

Compare this to a poor necro, probably the worst class for roaming, and they can’t escape from anything except their own grandmother … and that’s only if they cripple her first :-p

Sorry guys… it’s my fault. Every time I start to level a job and really like it, it gets nerfed immediately.

Sebrent.3625:

If you think Thief’s only defense is stealth then you need to actually read the Thief forums. There are several people that have even posted non-stealth videos where they instead make use of the massive amounts of evasion the Thief class can have at its disposal.

Think outside the box, don’t just agree with what every bad/average thief says. This is why the Mesmer community has come up with so many powerful builds… they keep innovating instead of just agreeing with each other on a single build or even on what the Mesmer is good/bad at.

Also, Mesmers make use of Stealth as well … I’m not seeing massive amount of griping from them … just from class that is the usual source of most griping.

so i need to read to find out? ok thats funny bc ive been a thief main since release and got everything there is to get pretty much. the best way, actually, to find out is play and challenge yourself. without steal a thief would never survive. its as simple as that. yes there are a few roll builds but they generally do little dmg and also run out of juice very very quickly. i mean you could pick sigils and runes and everything to supplement rolls …but it wont last long enough to be in a good/real fight.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Travlane.5948:

thief stealth is one part yes. its also the only defense. nobody said it was the only facet of thief. but it is the only real defense we have.

0 blocks
0 invulnerability
0 protection
0 stability
2nd lowest Hp pool
squishiest class in game regardless of build

so stealth is the only defense. our healing…condition removal…blinds and attacks/get aways are all tied to it. its always been our only defense. well i guess you could say back when thief was op backstabbing for 20k….the best defense was a super strong offense. but after the nerfs we only have stealth. and yes it would be nice to have a choice between stealth and osmething else. seems the devs/ anet team is too busy nerfing rather than fixing :P

That’s not entirely true. We have access to Evade that is better than Block, and we have access to Blind that is better than Invulnerability. Our Dagger Storm deals damage, reflect projectile and stabilizes with 30s CD — in addition to stealth and shadow step.

So I have to disagree with everything you have said.

ok so the stability is leaving you open and very vunerable to melee attacks so its a gamble and situationally good. the stability is only on the skill so we have no usefull access to it other than move with DS at a crippled pace. its on 90 sec cooldown ..not 30. we do have stealth which is our gift for everything we dont have(hence mypoint) but you ahve to understand that AOE CC = death . and plz (talking to everyone here) lets not talk about skills/etc in the sense of the very useless 1 v 1 scenarios…bc it doesnt matter diddly. shadow step is great although it triggers traps and hits aoe in way so :P yeah its good but not like avoiding everything like people think. Lots of classes have blind…especially eles which can be blind bots (fought one 2 days ago…wasnt bad at all) . Invulnerability is the chance to go toe to toe with another melee type and deal dmg without worring about anything….OR a chance to take 0 dmg and figure out a way to escape. i dont care we dont ahve that bc of shadowstep but id hardly say blind is better. if blind was “only removed on hits or blocks” then i would agree. but wiffing a strike in the air to remove it? pffft not that daunting.

Travlane, there are plenty of people that have played X class for quite a while and are still bad at it.

Additionally, just because there are some builds that try something and fail at it doesn’t mean that it’s not viable. Those builds I was talking about that have videos showing how viable they are obviously do not fail. Hence the videos.

When it comes to getting better at a class, both playing it and taking part in the discussions on it are how you get better. Take a look in the Mesmer forums at Osicat, SevenMirror, PyroAtheist, Kylia, etc.. They are constantly looking each other’s builds, thoughts on the class, etc. on top of generally playing it. Thinking that just playing it and not seeing what other good ideas others playing it have is a very conceited way to be as it implies that you assume you are doing it the best way possible and no one else can improve upon your way.

they
hate
thieves

we should be squishy sheep-like creatures that gets insta-gib as soon as we load into wvw maps. If a player had seen a live thief, that class gotta get nerfed!

sorrow.2364:

Probably they just realized that Thief roamers are too strong.
Don’t be childish, everyone should have felt like cheating while roaming in WvWvW. This change can only be good.

The world does not end, stealth is still there. You just have to be more careful when roaming around killing poor upleveled newbies.

theif roamers are TOO strong? no…but they are very strong.

Fact 1 : Thieves are 10x stronger than necros in a “roaming” sense.
Fact 2: Necros are 10x weaker than thieves in a “roaming” sense.
Fact 3: Necros are 10x stronger than thieves in a “team/zerg” sense.
Fact 4: Thieves are 10x weaker than necros in a “team/zerg” sense.
Fact 5: Roaming doesnt matter on any level.
Fact 6: Team/Guild/Zerg play is the most important part of the game.
Fact 7: Only thief roaming builds are called “OP” even tho useless (other than fun)

wait wait wait wait lol… if you think roaming is important or 1 v 1 is important than go to general forums to complain about how your class is sub par in 1 v 1 but OP and AMAZING in zergs…..

Roaming matters quite a bit. Listen to the intelligent commanders in various podcasts.

You can only have so many people in a given battleground. If you can take dolyaks, camps, etc. using less people than your foe, then you have more people for other objectives than your foe does.

It’s very simple.

Sebrent.3625:

Travlane, there are plenty of people that have played X class for quite a while and are still bad at it.

Additionally, just because there are some builds that try something and fail at it doesn’t mean that it’s not viable. Those builds I was talking about that have videos showing how viable they are obviously do not fail. Hence the videos.

When it comes to getting better at a class, both playing it and taking part in the discussions on it are how you get better. Take a look in the Mesmer forums at Osicat, SevenMirror, PyroAtheist, Kylia, etc.. They are constantly looking each other’s builds, thoughts on the class, etc. on top of generally playing it. Thinking that just playing it and not seeing what other good ideas others playing it have is a very conceited way to be as it implies that you assume you are doing it the best way possible and no one else can improve upon your way.

+1 its true . well said sir. although videos are only “cuts” of real play and could perhaps die every other time but only show you 2% which are the successful fights? you never know unless its uncut right? anything can be improved upon as well….situationally and to a different drum/purpose. it all depends really. d/p is good for dueling and p/d or sb is good for zerg play….it really depends what you are doing and what intent you ahve.

Travlane.5948:

ok so the stability is leaving you open and very vunerable to melee attacks so its a gamble and situationally good. the stability is only on the skill so we have no usefull access to it other than move with DS at a crippled pace. its on 90 sec cooldown ..not 30. we do have stealth which is our gift for everything we dont have(hence mypoint) but you ahve to understand that AOE CC = death . and plz (talking to everyone here) lets not talk about skills/etc in the sense of the very useless 1 v 1 scenarios…bc it doesnt matter diddly. shadow step is great although it triggers traps and hits aoe in way so :P yeah its good but not like avoiding everything like people think. Lots of classes have blind…especially eles which can be blind bots (fought one 2 days ago…wasnt bad at all) . Invulnerability is the chance to go toe to toe with another melee type and deal dmg without worring about anything….OR a chance to take 0 dmg and figure out a way to escape. i dont care we dont ahve that bc of shadowstep but id hardly say blind is better. if blind was “only removed on hits or blocks” then i would agree. but wiffing a strike in the air to remove it? pffft not that daunting.

Ok, my bad, I was going off the top of my head about DS so I thought it has 30s CD.

The reason why I believe that blind is better than invulnerability is mainly because of its easy access. We can blind our target in so many ways that if you time it correctly, you can keep them blinded for a long time. I find it funny that the initial reaction to blind was to stop attacking — probably GW1 syndrome. Compare that to a short invulnerability with long cooldown. I mean come on, if you’re fighting with someone who popped invulnerability, are you going to continue to exchange blows? Seriously?

But my point was, we have other form of defense other than stealth and I’m sure you have used quite a lot of them in your 1v1 fights.

Sebrent.3625:

Roaming matters quite a bit. Listen to the intelligent commanders in various podcasts.

You can only have so many people in a given battleground. If you can take dolyaks, camps, etc. using less people than your foe, then you have more people for other objectives than your foe does.

It’s very simple.

eh. u want the camp to not be on cooldown when the zerg gets there….that way they can take it or take supply….and if the zerg is going there (which is almost always) you are better off letting them take it (only a 15 sec problem). if you take it and 5 mins later they get there and its just been taken back…ur slowing a zerg so you ahve to be very careful. the only thing a roamer can do is cap camps and that usually isnt making a big difference. scouting is usefull but then again thats an escape/survival build setup. basically 1 v 1 (which is were all the complaints are) doesnt matter.

Non-thief community complains at 1 v 1 scenarios
Thief community complains at survival/productivity in everything else.

Thieves roam more often than not bc its what they can do well….since zerging/larger fights are just not in their pool of abilities.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Travlane.5948:

ok so the stability is leaving you open and very vunerable to melee attacks so its a gamble and situationally good. the stability is only on the skill so we have no usefull access to it other than move with DS at a crippled pace. its on 90 sec cooldown ..not 30. we do have stealth which is our gift for everything we dont have(hence mypoint) but you ahve to understand that AOE CC = death . and plz (talking to everyone here) lets not talk about skills/etc in the sense of the very useless 1 v 1 scenarios…bc it doesnt matter diddly. shadow step is great although it triggers traps and hits aoe in way so :P yeah its good but not like avoiding everything like people think. Lots of classes have blind…especially eles which can be blind bots (fought one 2 days ago…wasnt bad at all) . Invulnerability is the chance to go toe to toe with another melee type and deal dmg without worring about anything….OR a chance to take 0 dmg and figure out a way to escape. i dont care we dont ahve that bc of shadowstep but id hardly say blind is better. if blind was “only removed on hits or blocks” then i would agree. but wiffing a strike in the air to remove it? pffft not that daunting.

Ok, my bad, I was going off the top of my head about DS so I thought it has 30s CD.

The reason why I believe that blind is better than invulnerability is mainly because of its easy access. We can blind our target in so many ways that if you time it correctly, you can keep them blinded for a long time. I find it funny that the initial reaction to blind was to stop attacking — probably GW1 syndrome. Compare that to a short invulnerability with long cooldown. I mean come on, if you’re fighting with someone who popped invulnerability, are you going to continue to exchange blows? Seriously?

But my point was, we have other form of defense other than stealth and I’m sure you have used quite a lot of them in your 1v1 fights.

yes. i am a thief and i will say that black powder shot is slighthly OP. should only be a 2 sec pulse in my opinion. and thats coming from me….a thief asking for zerg mentality help :P i can be unbiased…i wouldnt care about a black powder shot nerf….its pretty op….warriors have no chance….well low chance lol

Dasorine.1964:

Rafahil.2857:

Again a direct nerf to thieves…..just remake the class into the classic assassin and just maybe less people will moan.

Nah then they’d just complain about how OP the damage is and how shadowsteps are a broken game mechanic that should never exist in the first place etc etc etc.

Those exact events occurred already when the Assassin was introduced in GW1.
“OMG, Shadowsteps are so OP. No one else can close a gap that fast or catch people off guard!”

You are quite correct about needing to time the camp capping travlane. I also appreciate your honesty about black powder. I think people should simply be honest about what is OP about their classes. It makes for better discussions.

I disagree about camp capping being all roamers are good at though. As mentioned before, they are great at intercepting reinforcements. Those often trickle in and being picked off slows them down if they don’t just completely leave that battleground. They can also intercept dolyaks, cap guards, and (thieves especially) harass zergs

Grimwolf.7163:

Dasorine.1964:

Rafahil.2857:

Again a direct nerf to thieves…..just remake the class into the classic assassin and just maybe less people will moan.

Nah then they’d just complain about how OP the damage is and how shadowsteps are a broken game mechanic that should never exist in the first place etc etc etc.

Those exact events occurred already when the Assassin was introduced in GW1.
“OMG, Shadowsteps are so OP. No one else can close a gap that fast or catch people off guard!”

I remember when Assassins can SS through walls, top/below of bridges, scale a gap, etc.

Those were the fun times…but Anet, despite their manifesto about bringing fun, is actually against fun.

They’ve taken a lot of fun out of the Assassins, they’re too serious now, and now they are doing the same thing to Thieves in GW2.

This is what happens when you bring the same person responsible for balancing GW1 to balance GW2 — you get the same BAD decisions.

There’s a lot of details that would dictate how big a problem this is…

Does it apply “revealed” debuff or just remove stealth?
How big a zone?
How long?
How expensive?
Cooldown?
How many players can chain it?

While it might have a legitimate purpose, like catching a permastealthing thief in Bay hoping to rez their dead mesmer friend… (Although the real issue there is corpse rez/spy mechanics.) It will probably be used much more often as a free kill a thief token or a free thief can’t have a fair fight token.

Most likely, I see this sort of thing just resulting in an environment where Thieves cannot participate in meaningful WvW situations without having the only mechanic that makes the class competitive be completely disabled. It would be just as bad as having a “no clones” field for mesmers or a “no conditions” field for necros.

The only way to make such a consumable “fair” would be to either make it so bad and expensive that it never gets used anyway. If it is good enough value to bother using, then it will break the Thief class in WvW.

I do feel for you thieves. It’s true that stealth is your only real defense but the fact of the matter is that it’s a very broken mechanic which should have never been implemented to begin with. Hopefully ArenaNet will take steps to make the thief less reliant on stealth and glass cannon builds.

Travlane.5948:

theif roamers are TOO strong? no…but they are very strong.

Fact 1 : Thieves are 10x stronger than necros in a “roaming” sense.
Fact 2: Necros are 10x weaker than thieves in a “roaming” sense.
Fact 3: Necros are 10x stronger than thieves in a “team/zerg” sense.
Fact 4: Thieves are 10x weaker than necros in a “team/zerg” sense.
Fact 5: Roaming doesnt matter on any level.
Fact 6: Team/Guild/Zerg play is the most important part of the game.
Fact 7: Only thief roaming builds are called “OP” even tho useless (other than fun)

wait wait wait wait lol… if you think roaming is important or 1 v 1 is important than go to general forums to complain about how your class is sub par in 1 v 1 but OP and AMAZING in zergs…..

You are acting just like a little child whose ice cream fell to the ground.

No, Necros aren’t 10x stronger then Thieves in Team/Zerg, also none here called Necro into the discussion. You did.

I play both Thief and Necro, so I can have a clear idea of both profession.

Thief has Dagger Storm, which, this skill only, puts Thief in a good spot in team/zerg fights.
Thief has the ability to quickly disengage a fight in case the odds are not on your favor. This capability alone, is worth any AoE mark/well Necro has. I just like how I rush into the enemy line, unload all my initiative on poor guys, then I just use Stealth + Withdraw to easily disengage the fight and leave it with absolutely no damage.

So, before saying that the introduction of anti-stealth trap is unfair or to say that Necro is 10x stronger than Thief in group fights, try them both.

Also, roaming isn’t worthless. Actually, in group fights, it is just a matter of numbers in most the cases. Being good at group fights is useless when the enemy zerg is 3x bigger. Numbers are not a problem to Thieves, which gives them an HUGE advantage in every situation.

Sebrent.3625:

You are quite correct about needing to time the camp capping travlane. I also appreciate your honesty about black powder. I think people should simply be honest about what is OP about their classes. It makes for better discussions.

I disagree about camp capping being all roamers are good at though. As mentioned before, they are great at intercepting reinforcements. Those often trickle in and being picked off slows them down if they don’t just completely leave that battleground. They can also intercept dolyaks, cap guards, and (thieves especially) harass zergs

check out this:
http://youtu.be/kk_jPDk6ihU ignoring me intercepting them :P they just dont care (smart of them) and if the other reinforcements are smart they shouldtoo. that small zerg could have easiy aoed and had a chance at stopping me….but that would get them no where ….and thats bc roamers are of little consequence.

Fungalfoot.7213:

I do feel for you thieves. It’s true that stealth is your only real defense but the fact of the matter is that it’s a very broken mechanic which should have never been implemented to begin with. Hopefully ArenaNet will take steps to make the thief less reliant on stealth and glass cannon builds.

There’s nothing at all wrong with Stealth; the problem is with the ability to use certain skills to stay in it for ridiculous lengths of time.
They just seem to enjoy breaking everything around the actual issue.

Just get it done with and remove Stealth stacking/refreshing, and give a couple seconds of Revealed any time it ends rather than four seconds on attack.