Guild Wars 2

I am more concerned about the toggle and the basic thief class balance.

Dark field on skill#4 in itself would make the staff a genuine contender against the other weapons (by making it unique).
Adding a proper gap closer would make it on par with them (if Vault gets a 900 range, I’ll finally be able to say goodbye to the shortbow)

Changes on this bwe were positive and it improved the class overall but still.. it is more of the same..
Thieves were already ok at spvp and roaming wvw modes..
Thieves need a boost to be viable on high end pve areas and small/big wvw fights…
So you added a non stealth build for thieves where the only survivabilty comes from dodges..
And boom.. you announce high end HOT pve mobs willvhave NON dodgeable damage.. ta daaa.. you just killed the whole survivabilty of the class.
And on wvw small/big fights 1 extra dodge just isn’t enough..
Needs more endurance recovery to be able to dodge more often and cond cleanse if you wont have access to stealth.. 1 random condi cleanse is just not enough when you are taking 3-8 condi in a single second..
So the spec, in my opinion, just does not offer any boost on the areas where thieves were not viable..
You could have made it so that DD became bad spec for roaming/spvp but a good spec for wvw/high end pve.. so thieves could alternate between builds, but nope. You just gave thieves a different way of being “ok” on same modes where he is already ok..
Till now my 2 classes (thief and warrior) are getting really underwhelming specs from HOT..
And i already pre-purchased..
/sadface

BassHunteR.7246:

Changes on this bwe were positive and it improved the class overall but still.. it is more of the same..
Thieves were already ok at spvp and roaming wvw modes..
Thieves need a boost to be viable on high end pve areas and small/big wvw fights…
So you added a non stealth build for thieves where the only survivabilty comes from dodges..
And boom.. you announce high end HOT pve mobs willvhave NON dodgeable damage.. ta daaa.. you just killed the whole survivabilty of the class.
And on wvw small/big fights 1 extra dodge just isn’t enough..
Needs more endurance recovery to be able to dodge more often and cond cleanse if you wont have access to stealth.. 1 random condi cleanse is just not enough when you are taking 3-8 condi in a single second..
So the spec, in my opinion, just does not offer any boost on the areas where thieves were not viable..
You could have made it so that DD became bad spec for roaming/spvp but a good spec for wvw/high end pve.. so thieves could alternate between builds, but nope. You just gave thieves a different way of being “ok” on same modes where he is already ok..
Till now my 2 classes (thief and warrior) are getting really underwhelming specs from HOT..
And i already pre-purchased..
/sadface

The mechanics in the raid we tested were percentage based damage. Classes like thief with lower HP pools were balanced against this as incoming/personal heals actually worked better against this kind of damage the less base HP you had. Thief actually worked just fine in the raid compared to everyone else in a survivability sense against unavoidable damage.

For easier accessability to refect projectiles take a look at scaptor for mesmer. the auto attack chain can continue regardless if it hits a target or not.

If we allow for the chain to go 1>2>3 without hitting a target or hitting anything we can definitely keep a distance and still trigger reflects more often. It’s a simple fix that shouldn’t break the class and still offer more help.

Removing 1 condition on evade needs to prioritize Damaging conditions first and be changed to function for 3 conditions per successful evade/dodge…so we dont dodge carelessly.

the dodge types need to be f3,4,5 skills to switch to based on specific situations much like a stance which would free up 3 grandmaster trait types. we need to keep this thread going especially since the HoT is released.

Lithril Ashwalker.6230:

the dodge types need to be f3,4,5 skills to switch to based on specific situations much like a stance which would free up 3 grandmaster trait types. we need to keep this thread going especially since the HoT is released.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…

No, really. Ha.

Having played DareDevil and fully unlocked it in pve I’ve got the following feedback:

The good

- While some of the animations are still WIP on the whole its really flashy and cool to watch.
- Damage on Vault is nice and clears a lot of trash.
- The new dodges really help.

The bad

- Thief damage mitigation and anti CC is pretty terrible and it’s to easy to get wiped.
- Damage isn’t comparable to other specializations. My Reaper tears through content.
- The Staff skills on the whole aren’t very fun to use and the utility is weak. Again Reaper greatsword is fantastic in this respect.
- Weakening Charge and Debilitating Ark I find myself not using at all and they don’t offer anything in combat.
- Skill Dust Strike should be an area blind with combo field activated by vault. I find myself getting into more trash mob fights so a single target blind is pretty useless.
- Bounding dodger needs reworking, it’s not as good as the other two dodges.

The ugly

- I still feel incredibly weak compared to other classes.
- Staff isn’t as fun or functional as other specializations
- The base problems with thief still hold the class back.
- The extra dodge isn’t that great.
- Would be nice to see at least one condition application added to the auto attack.

Tringsh.2380:

- Weakening Charge and Debilitating Ark I find myself not using at all and they don’t offer anything in combat.

Not using Weakening Charge is why you feel like you have bad damage. It is the highest DPS available to Thief in the entire game…

That plus Weakness, the best anti-power condition?

Auesis.7301:

Tringsh.2380:

- Weakening Charge and Debilitating Ark I find myself not using at all and they don’t offer anything in combat.

Not using Weakening Charge is why you feel like you have bad damage. It is the highest DPS available to Thief in the entire game…

That plus Weakness, the best anti-power condition?

Hadn’t looked at it like that. I will have a play tonight. However the reaper still looks to do this better http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Spiral

One thing they might do to staff to make it a bit better is drop the 10 percent more damage when endurance full (the fact is a dd uses endurance a lot so this rarely comes into play) and switch that too something very much like the “add endurance when Ini used trait” this being “when wielding a staff gain 1 ini every 6 seconds.”

Since base INI is 12 and recharges at 1 per second it in essence 2 extra ini every 12 seconds. This gives that staff an added edge over other weapon sets in that it not as strapped for that initiative and will have an edge in endurance regen.

babazhook.6805:

One thing they might do to staff to make it a bit better is drop the 10 percent more damage when endurance full (the fact is a dd uses endurance a lot so this rarely comes into play) and switch that too something very much like the “add endurance when Ini used trait” this being “when wielding a staff gain 1 ini every 6 seconds.”

Since base INI is 12 and recharges at 1 per second it in essence 2 extra ini every 12 seconds. This gives that staff an added edge over other weapon sets in that it not as strapped for that initiative and will have an edge in endurance regen.

Err, it’s 10% damage when endurance is NOT full.

Auesis.7301:

babazhook.6805:

One thing they might do to staff to make it a bit better is drop the 10 percent more damage when endurance full (the fact is a dd uses endurance a lot so this rarely comes into play) and switch that too something very much like the “add endurance when Ini used trait” this being “when wielding a staff gain 1 ini every 6 seconds.”

Since base INI is 12 and recharges at 1 per second it in essence 2 extra ini every 12 seconds. This gives that staff an added edge over other weapon sets in that it not as strapped for that initiative and will have an edge in endurance regen.

Err, it’s 10% damage when endurance is NOT full.

Oops then forget that I was mixing it up with the new heal.

In any case I only just unlocked the full spec last night so have been testing a staff build. I was trying it with staff mastery over escapists and rather liked the damage and dodges it afforded.

I think staff in NEARLY a good place. Some sort of field would be nice. I am not sure what else needed. Weakening charge is underrated. I was focusing on Vault in beta for damage but have been using 2 more and more.

I am really liking #3 as well.

In WvW it works real nice with p/p as the alternate set for the times ranged needed.

feedback on Daredevil staff:
————
-what is good-
The animation for the auto-attack is perfect. Vault has also a nice rythm to it (a little bug concerning its traveling distance though, it doesn’t always fully reach the ground target).

-what can be improved-

debilitating arc (#3) :
Considering the kind of content we are facing in the world, I think it
desperately needs some kind of CC (also, the name itself suggests a CC ), something like daze (or knockback or launch).

weakening charge (#2) (currently pretty bad, both in mechanism and animation):
It still has this annoying delay before and after casting, making it look like the game is lagging. It’s really hard to time it correctly with other skills, I always end up performing an extra unwanted weakening charge attack (which screws up both my positioning and my timings).
Mechanic-wise, it’s actually good, but the delays need to be adressed.

dust strike (#4) :
A dark field for support will complement both the third chain-key of the auto-attack and weakening charge (since it goes forward, a column field would synergize well with it). The idea is to profit from the combo whirl + dark field, which provides leeching bolt.

Honestly, at this point, I would be happy with 1200 range on dust strike. I’d want a smoke field or even a dark field, but the one thing I want most of all is more range. Please give this skill some good use.

Ugh, having to use SB most the time now since going melee in PvE on HoT maps is a super bad idea. Once I cap HP on my thief, I am going back to my ele instead since going ranged seems like the best bet over all; I really don’t enjoy being forced to use SB all the time since going in close to player buffed mobs results in inevitable deaths.

My problem is pure survivability. Most non-trash mobs are 100% resistant to blinds/fumbles so that means I can’t get defense that way + there isn’t much in the way to clear dots + none of my heal traits/abilities are good enough to with stand the damage HoT mobs can dish out in the blink of an eye.

Conversely, I watch necros/gaurds/wars/revs tank the same stuff that owns me like it’s easy mode and even out heal/mitigate the dmg they recieve while in melee unlike my thief. Sigh. I have tried many stat combos and nothing is really working; once my 3-4 dodges are done, so am I.

fixit.7189:

Ugh, having to use SB most the time now since going melee in PvE on HoT maps is a super bad idea. Once I cap HP on my thief, I am going back to my ele instead since going ranged seems like the best bet over all; I really don’t enjoy being forced to use SB all the time since going in close to player buffed mobs results in inevitable deaths.

My problem is pure survivability. Most non-trash mobs are 100% resistant to blinds/fumbles so that means I can’t get defense that way + there isn’t much in the way to clear dots + none of my heal traits/abilities are good enough to with stand the damage HoT mobs can dish out in the blink of an eye.

Conversely, I watch necros/gaurds/wars/revs tank the same stuff that owns me like it’s easy mode and even out heal/mitigate the dmg they recieve while in melee unlike my thief. Sigh. I have tried many stat combos and nothing is really working; once my 3-4 dodges are done, so am I.

I can say the same thing. I don’t have much problem in VB except for the stealthing/jumping frogs that take half your health in a short bow #3

I have seen two major issues since I started playing HoT:

1) Almost everything charges and knocks you down. This is very annoying specially making range a must on such enemies since once you are on your back you are screwed. Cripple/immobilize does not seem to work on new enemies for some reason. Either they have a break bar or they seem to be totally immune to it.

2)The base concept of the DrD was tested out in a small section of VB. Once you going into AB and higher there are a lot more groups of mobs, more AOEs that take half your health a second and snipers that down you in 1-2 shots. Just about every boss fight feels like a cheep shot mechanic as they tail wipe you once and you are relying on the passer bys to help you up.

Melee seems to be hit all around in the later stages. One really big issue is thieves do not have the range that other classes do and are forced to stay in the 900 range to hit which puts them more in the danger zone with “no” survivalbility. I have been using Dash with the 10% damage mitigation but it taking 10% off of something that 2 shots you, still seems to 2 shot you. Sad part is I am seeing mage classes able to take a shot and stay in melee range better.

I am going to mess around with some new armor types. Looking by the dare devil runes and stuff Anet is wanting us to take on more toughness in our armor builds. This is fine but we are going to need a damage creep increase to match other classes damage out put. I feel like right now running almost full zerker gear puts us in damage wise were other classes do with Valkyrie or even Soldier.

Tringsh.2380:

Having played DareDevil and fully unlocked it in pve I’ve got the following feedback:

The good

- While some of the animations are still WIP on the whole its really flashy and cool to watch.
- Damage on Vault is nice and clears a lot of trash.
- The new dodges really help.

The bad

- Thief damage mitigation and anti CC is pretty terrible and it’s to easy to get wiped.
- Damage isn’t comparable to other specializations. My Reaper tears through content.
- The Staff skills on the whole aren’t very fun to use and the utility is weak. Again Reaper greatsword is fantastic in this respect.
- Weakening Charge and Debilitating Ark I find myself not using at all and they don’t offer anything in combat.
- Skill Dust Strike should be an area blind with combo field activated by vault. I find myself getting into more trash mob fights so a single target blind is pretty useless.
- Bounding dodger needs reworking, it’s not as good as the other two dodges.

The ugly

- I still feel incredibly weak compared to other classes.
- Staff isn’t as fun or functional as other specializations
- The base problems with thief still hold the class back.
- The extra dodge isn’t that great.
- Would be nice to see at least one condition application added to the auto attack.

This.

I was fighting some of those champion bosses at heropoints with others. I was dishing out good damage(10 k andvup per attack) yet found survival fine with those dodges . in each case I was rezzing other classes that had dropped or was the only one that did not drop and run back to the wp to reenter the battle.

The dodges and stealth along with the weapon evades does increase survival significantly over what my non DD thief able to do.

There certainly work to be done but it not all doom and despair.

You did it Anet!

I started playing Daredevil yesterday (had to unlock my "trapperdruid! first) and all I can say is:

I’m loving it!

I’m impressed at the amount of work you put into the class and I think it really worked out fine. Animations are great now.

And it’s so, so much fun to dash or bound around constantly.

I just had to say this because I guess we tend to criticise but rarely give positive feedback and I can see that thief went a long way from Beta to release – and it worked out fine in my opinion.

What else can I say: I’m happy. :-)

Tringsh.2380:

Auesis.7301:

Tringsh.2380:

- Weakening Charge and Debilitating Ark I find myself not using at all and they don’t offer anything in combat.

Not using Weakening Charge is why you feel like you have bad damage. It is the highest DPS available to Thief in the entire game…

That plus Weakness, the best anti-power condition?

Hadn’t looked at it like that. I will have a play tonight. However the reaper still looks to do this better http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Spiral

So I played with this last night and I found it rather underwhelming. If I trait into conditions such as poison, bleed, torment etc it would be nice to see staff apply at least one of these effects.

Just came here to state again how much of a QoL change it was if we could get a small UI window to select Grandmaster Dodges if we are OoC. Doesn’t even need to be keybound. Clicking it with the mouse would be fine.

babazhook.6805:

I was fighting some of those champion bosses at heropoints with others. I was dishing out good damage(10 k andvup per attack) yet found survival fine with those dodges . in each case I was rezzing other classes that had dropped or was the only one that did not drop and run back to the wp to reenter the battle.

The dodges and stealth along with the weapon evades does increase survival significantly over what my non DD thief able to do.

There certainly work to be done but it not all doom and despair.

I had fun playing it today even if I was quite bad at it, contrary to Tempest which hasn’t improved at all since BW3 and still has basic underlying issues preventing it from being good.