Guild Wars 2

This really shouldn’t need any explanation. BS dmg is so low it’s not worth getting into stealth then going for a back stab when it will probably be blocked, invulned or evaded. It’s like trying to hit a bullseye in darts. Either increase the damage by 20% or make it so that face dmg is the same as back dmg.

Most things really just need downward toning tbh, and frontstabs should be punishable as that’s the intent with the frequency of the burst. Look pre-HoT and backstab was pretty much at the top of the charts.

More damage isn’t the proper response to too much damage on everything else. We’re already at a point now where things are out of hand.

I agree, Deceiver. The power creep is real, and everything needs to be toned backwards. It’s a sad day when pressing 3>1 yields better results than 5>2>F1>(move behind target)1.

Shovel Face.4512:

or make it so that face dmg is the same as back dmg.

The fact that this was even suggested goes so far against the identity of the thief.

I agree that backstabs are pretty lacking atm. The risk vs reward is pretty low on backstabs. C&D into steal, if it misses makes you down a 20/30s cd steal and 6/8 initiative depending on if you traited to gain initiative on steal. And BP -> HS costs 9 initiative. Blinding power has a 40s cd if you actually decide to use that for a backstab. And with all the invulns, dodges, blocks, stealth, and mobility skills right now it’s definitely possible to either stall out a backstab or the extra dps following one required for a down. Particularly considering that getting someone low nowadays means triggering their automatic defenses.

Edit: Also yeah, think they’re weak. But like Deceiver says that might mean too much powercreep rather than a need for a buff.

i need to stop reading these forums…. halp

The problem with backstab is that combo:
backstab+steal(mug) + fire/air procs + PI proc

already hits other thieves for like 85-90% hp in one-hit, so further buffing backstab going to oneshot-style fights, where thieves should randomly dodge to prevent being dead, because class don’t have healthy access to protection or other damage mitigation forms.

So, buffing backstab is unhealthy idea and won’t be implemented in any form.

dDuff.3860:

The problem with backstab is that combo:
backstab+steal(mug) + fire/air procs + PI proc

already hits other thieves for like 85-90% hp in one-hit, so further buffing backstab going to oneshot-style fights, where thieves should randomly dodge to prevent being dead, because class don’t have healthy access to protection or other damage mitigation forms.

So, buffing backstab is unhealthy idea and won’t be implemented in any form.

What? Vault and Weakening Charge deal more damage than back stab and I have sigil of air/fire and precast with steal(mug) and it doesn’t 1 shot anyone except people who run ridiculous builds. And both those skills combined cost less initiative than BP→HS. All I’m suggesting is they increase back stab dmg by a tiny bit so it competes with Vault and Weakening Charge.

instead of buffing the actual dmg of backstab they could change the way it actually does dmg to the enemy, implementing a system where the backstab ingores the armor value of the enemy but also reducing the dmg it has now might fix the issue, what I’m trying to say is that it does a consistent amount of dmg no matter what you hit, e.g. making backstab take 40% of the enemies hp pool no matter what their armor is, that would mean that it has good dmg accross the board but won’t one hit ppl since it doesn’t really scale with power as much. E.G new backstab hits a 12k hp thief, after backstab the thief has about 6-8k hp depending on how strong we want to make BS, fighting a guard with 20k hp, the BS would reduce his hp to about 12-15k
and so on, this way BS would not onehit ppl or thieves and mesmers accross the board but will do consistant good dmg no matter what you fight, since atm the power creep is so high and the risk to actually land a good backstab is very high but the reward is not even sub par, e.g. why does a Rev Hammer 2 or Ranger LB 2 or DH LB 2 do 9-12k dmg, but a BS that needs so much more to actually pull off 6-max9 (without silly sigil build + might etc)
the best solution imho would be to reduce the power creep of every class overall, but they would also reduce thieves dmg, which would mean it’s in the same state as it is now, just everything hits for less.

Steal boons on backstab.
Daze on backstab.
Interupt on backstab.
Apply conditions on backstab. (Slow, Confusion)

Stop thinking more damage for everything.

Wolfield.9812:

Steal boons on backstab.
Daze on backstab.
Interupt on backstab.
Apply conditions on backstab. (Slow, Confusion)

Stop thinking more damage for everything.

knock down on backstab would be nice atleast now that auto attack deas the same damage XD

Additional effects still aren’t. Backstab can already hit like a bus and makes a big impact on most fights. BV already punishes people not running stability enough as it is; there’s no need to get such short cooldown CC or extra effects.

Power creep got us into the problem of backstab seeming weak to begin with. More power creep/extra stuff for free will only make other classes demand for power buffs and the cycle will repeat until either everyone is one-shotting each other with skills with infinite range and can’t be prevented or nobody ever dies.

The power creep seriously needs to end. Just nerf the new broken stuff instead of buffing backstab to compete better with what’s already overpowered.

Tune everything down instead.

Especially if you have skipped Deadly Arts for Shadowarts – and still do 8k+ crits in wvw. It’s just completely broken.

I would more wan’t to raise the high risk – high reward aspect instead. Trading DA for SA has never been seen as a high risk – high reward thing.

dDuff.3860:

The problem with backstab is that combo:
backstab+steal(mug) + fire/air procs + PI proc

already hits other thieves for like 85-90% hp in one-hit, so further buffing backstab going to oneshot-style fights, where thieves should randomly dodge to prevent being dead, because class don’t have healthy access to protection or other damage mitigation forms.

So, buffing backstab is unhealthy idea and won’t be implemented in any form.

this.

I think they should buff it. I have enough dodges to randomly dodge to avoid dead.

swinsk.6410:

I think they should buff it. I have enough dodges to randomly dodge to avoid dead.

nice sarcasm.

Same way crossfire only bleeds when flanking, I’d rather see more things with rewarding use than just make the same results achievable by any use at all.

Backstab should remain backstab, not stab. I don’t want backstab damage in the front I want more skills to be like backstab (and crossfire) and require a lick of thought if it is to be rewarding.

Backstab does a crapton of damage already, and like others have said here already it’s the defenses of your targets that are overpowered not that backstab is underpowered.

Making backstab ignore armor would be the only maybe balanced way to increase its damage output and impact on the fight, by buffing it where it needs the help (against people running 3k+ armor and protection) and not where it doesn’t (against targets that have low armor and lack automatic proc defensive traits).

Increasing the power multiplier or the base damage is a really, really bad idea, just like buffing the autoattack was.

I think toons that are half nude, aka human female t3 and other light armours should take double dmg…

In all honesty though, bs hurts enemy thives or anything with no form or protection, or armour buff. Having 10/20% armor penetration like air magic did in gw1 would help, but then that’s power creep again so it will just make things worse. It’s hard to really balance now with so much tank boons and buffs, only real way to achieve a nice back stab is if you combine it with bounty theft trait.