Guild Wars 2

I’m a thief player, but I have refused to be part of these no skill.. Flavor of the month specs. Anyone can hit steal, cloak and dagger and backstab. Its is the guild wars definition of no talent and thankfully.. it is going to leave us.

EDIT -

No class should be bursting down people with massive health or massive toughness in a few moments. So the same garbage and unfun gameplay applies to Warriors as well. They do the SAME crap that thief players do and they do it just as well. Don’t let them BS you other wise.

Jnaathra.6549:

I’m a thief player, but I have refused to be part of these no skill.. Flavor of the month specs. Anyone can hit steal, cloak and dagger and backstab. Its is the guild wars definition of no talent and thankfully.. it is going to leave us.

EDIT -

No class should be bursting down people with massive health or massive toughness in a few moments. So the same garbage and unfun gameplay applies to Warriors as well. They do the SAME crap that thief players do and they do it just as well. Don’t let them BS you other wise.

To be fair, they hit Skale Venom, Basilisk Venom, Assassin’s Signet, Cloak and Dagger, Steal, Haste, Backstab, and then finish the target off with whatever they can. It frags their entire skill bar, including their elite, and renders them pretty squishy vs. any additional enemies.

Everyone should read this. It’s a little long but worth it, in my humble opinion ;-)

I am a thief player and blablabla .No you’re not.
Thieves are designed that way to burst people down .Thats why they use initiative in the first place instead of CD’s.
Idc if they nerf the thief.Be my guest .I never started playing a thief because they were strong in the first place.In the end ,nerfed or not ,I will still kick your kitten no matter what they will do.Watching you whine on board only makes my day.

NightyNight

Thieves are designed that way to burst people down .Thats why they use initiative in the first place instead of CD’s.

If you think that is all initiative can be used for you’re missing a lot of the malleability that the thief offers. Initiative allows a skill to be spammed, in the case of a high-damage skill that can mean burst damage, but in the case of a more utility-based skill it makes the thief into a utility powerhouse.

NightyNight.1823:

I am a thief player and blablabla .No you’re not.
Thieves are designed that way to burst people down .Thats why they use initiative in the first place instead of CD’s.
Idc if they nerf the thief.Be my guest .I never started playing a thief because they were strong in the first place.In the end ,nerfed or not ,I will still kick your kitten no matter what they will do.Watching you whine on board only makes my day.

Oh nos! Please don’t kick my kitten, random internet forum tough-guy. So apparently I am not a Thief player but you’ll beat up my Thief anyway?

I can’t even believe the large amount of people defending Thief single target damage in this thread. You must be out of your mind to think that killing someone within 3-5 hits is normal.

stefanplc.5234:

I can’t even believe the large amount of people defending Thief single target damage in this thread. You must be out of your mind to think that killing someone within 3-5 hits is normal.

Killing someone in 3-5 hits is normal, most professions can do it. The problem is that thieves can do those 3-5 hits in half the time most other professions can, due to precast C&D->instant mug. The distinction is very important.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5160/gw001ey.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1079/gw017l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2650/gw018j.jpg
Best: 28k 100b
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9046/gw019n.jpg

Warriors are fine according to people

you can dodge warrior, you cant dodge thieves because you dont see them.

And Warriors have double the HP and defence.Your move.

I like how so many of the posts supporting a nerf in this thread are like, “yeah, well, the thief who’s attacking you is going to have every trait possible for a thief, so whatever you do, it won’t effect him.”

Thief is only slightly above other classes in single target burst damage. Hell, you could even argue that thief is only on par with other classes. Shatter Mesmer, Grenade Engineer, GS or Axe Warrior… The list goes on. So many classes have insane burst, but because thief is the most complained about (surprise, a stealth class is complained about!), it’s supposedly in line for a nerf. This is also with a build that lacks utility and its only AoE ability (with a burst build) is pretty awful on more than two targets.

The majority of people here complaining about Thieves never even heard of stun breakers .The recent video added on Thief forum is just the evidence of that.Should we take them into consideration?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZMl4S4C7Sk
The Thief is obviously OP whit that 5k Back Stab.
Warriors Eviscerate can pull the same damage and doesn’t take that much possitioning and buffing.

NightyNight.1823:

The majority of people here complaining about Thieves never even heard of stun breakers .The recent video added on Thief forum is just the evidence of that.Should we take them into consideration?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZMl4S4C7Sk

Please explain when he should have used a stun breaker… During the time when all his skills are unusable because he is dazed? Or while he was IMMOBILIZED since stun breakers work against immobile? oh wait..

That Ranger was indeed horrible and could have done better, but stun breakers would have not done jack in any of those fights..

Besides even if you USE a stun breaker most of them don’t free you up instantly and by the time you can do anything you already ate 3/4 of your hp bar in damage since the cnd-steal-bs combo is near instant and already in progress before the venom hits to stun you.. Even IF you use a stun breaker the thief gets to pull off that whole combo PLUS some auto attacks before you can move.

The only real effective defense is dodging the steal with some great timing, stealthing right before he attempts it, or a movement stun breaker like shadowstep or blink. Or any of the immunity skills such as endure pain, mist form, blurred frenzy(with great timing).

I should mention that I also have a 80 ranger which was my first 80 that I don’t really play anymore. I had a lot of frustration at first but in the end did learn how to deal with thieves effectively, though I had to build in a specific way and make sure I had specific utils (notably lightning reflex and sword 3 for evades while immobilized). But I definitely had to work a hell of a lot harder then the thief did with his gimmicky attack.

Thief was my 3rd 80 but I have put a ton of hours on him… I purposely use a more sustainable backstab build because I think the glass 1 combo burst is lame and not even fun… When I get in a fight I want it to feel like I outskilled my opponent… I’m sorry but getting in 900 range using a OP stun venom and pressing 3 buttons with a timing a infant could learn is NOT a skilled fight..

Let me be clear though before anyone responds to me. I am perfectly ok with the damage a thief can dish out, even in 1 combo.. But the way it is instantly dealt is not ok with me, even as a thief player.

For the record since people also keep bringing it up I also believe some Warrior skills could use a bit of tweaking.

And for the guy that brought up the “huge shatter mesmer burst”.. That takes a hell of a lot more setting up and is way more situational then any other classes burst.. You do realize you can avoid “burst” from a shatter just by strafing clones.. They are slow and kitten the only way to get a big burst is all 3 clones being right on the target when you shatter, in that case it’s your fault you got hit by it.

You know you’re right..I looked more into it and you can’t break out of Basilisk Venom .But for your information Basilisk Venom doesn’t daze.It turns you into stone for a second and half.And you Shouldn’t be able to break free.Its a freakin elite skill .
Also , while dazed you’re free to move, even tho you can’t use your skills.
And no thief can kill you in a second and half.You have plenty of time to react and negate the rest of the burst (if you didn’t do it in the first place),evade and heal .Those hits is all they have.If they miss that burst they have nothing left but for you to kill them.If you can’t manage that well you’re just not good enough.Or what you just can’t keep up whit the speed?Thats just you buddy.Screaming for nerfs is just pathetic.

But I realy don’t mind Thieves getting looked at.Nerfing one area while buffing the other.Sure if it has too..for all of ya slowww people.:)I realy liked the other nerf on Assassin’s signet.Bring us more of those.

No, they changed it so you can break stun from it. It’s just a 1.5 second stun Elite skill on a 45 second CD.

Yes I was confused because I have seen people doing it before.

NightyNight.1823:

You know you’re right..I looked more into it and you can’t break out of Basilisk Venom .But for your information Basilisk Venom doesn’t daze.It turns you into stone for a second and half.And you Shouldn’t be able to break free.Its a freakin elite skill .
Also , while dazed you’re free to move, even tho you can’t use your skills.
And no thief can kill you in a second and half.You have plenty of time to react and negate the rest of the burst (if you didn’t do it in the first place),evade and heal .Those hits is all they have.If they miss that burst they have nothing left but for you to kill them.If you can’t manage that well you’re just not good enough.Or what you just can’t keep up whit the speed?Thats just you buddy.Screaming for nerfs is just pathetic.

But I realy don’t mind Thieves getting looked at.Nerfing one area while buffing the other.Sure if it has too..for all of ya slowww people.:)I realy liked the other nerf on Assassin’s signet.Bring us more of those.

I suggest you watch the video and pay attention to the rangers skillbar. As soon as the thief hits him all the rangers skills go on CD most for 1.5 seconds some for 3, meaning he cannot possibly use any skills to escape (or break stun). By the time he has his skills available again, he is down to about 2.5k hp. He is ALSO immobilized so cannot move either. This guy is literally helpless in that situation.

I’m not saying it couldn’t have been avoided with a different build or utility setup.. Also like I said before it damage is fine imo.. I would just like to see more skill involved in the execution of the combo. (as a thief player because I like a challenge rather then a faceroll win, which is why neither my mesmer or thief use any build you will find on these forums and are built more towards fighting in outnumbered situations).

I can’t edit but I’m guessing lightning reflexes would have not been put on cooldown from the stun, so like I said before a different utility setup could have helped.

To reiterate I really don’t want this tweak to be damage based, rather execution based.

dank.3680:

I suggest you watch the video and pay attention to the rangers skillbar. As soon as the thief hits him all the rangers skills go on CD most for 1.5 seconds some for 3, meaning he cannot possibly use any skills to escape (or break stun). By the time he has his skills available again, he is down to about 2.5k hp. He is ALSO immobilized so cannot move either. This guy is literally helpless in that situation.

I’m not saying it couldn’t have been avoided with a different build or utility setup.. Also like I said before it damage is fine imo.. I would just like to see more skill involved in the execution of the combo. (as a thief player because I like a challenge rather then a faceroll win, which is why neither my mesmer or thief use any build you will find on these forums and are built more towards fighting in outnumbered situations).

This is 100% his problem. If you don’t carry around a break stun, you’re fodder for every class. Guess what a glass cannon GS warrior with Bull’s Charge would do? The same thing but faster.

His situations were all avoidable.

I’m not even a thief, I’m a guardian.

And seeing another guardian whining about dying to thieves makes me lose faith in humanity.

Krathalos.3461:

dank.3680:

I suggest you watch the video and pay attention to the rangers skillbar. As soon as the thief hits him all the rangers skills go on CD most for 1.5 seconds some for 3, meaning he cannot possibly use any skills to escape (or break stun). By the time he has his skills available again, he is down to about 2.5k hp. He is ALSO immobilized so cannot move either. This guy is literally helpless in that situation.

I’m not saying it couldn’t have been avoided with a different build or utility setup.. Also like I said before it damage is fine imo.. I would just like to see more skill involved in the execution of the combo. (as a thief player because I like a challenge rather then a faceroll win, which is why neither my mesmer or thief use any build you will find on these forums and are built more towards fighting in outnumbered situations).

This is 100% his problem. If you don’t carry around a break stun, you’re fodder for every class. Guess what a glass cannon GS warrior with Bull’s Charge would do? The same thing but faster.

His situations were all avoidable.

Most class cannon Warriors in my experience use immobilizes (or knockdowns)rather then stuns to pull off big bursts.. In which case, rangers do not have a lot of access to removing immobilizes.

I also mentioned before, since it keeps being brought up, Warriors need tweaks in the way they can execute their huge bursts as well.. Again I don’t think it’s a damage issue, just ease of quick execution. I also agree with many Quickness is a huge issue.. I remember when I played my ranger how many LOL’s I had when I popped QZ into someones back with my shortbow…

My last opinion is probably pretty unpopular, but I think GW2 has FAR too many and too effective CC options.

dank.3680:

NightyNight.1823:

You know you’re right..I looked more into it and you can’t break out of Basilisk Venom .But for your information Basilisk Venom doesn’t daze.It turns you into stone for a second and half.And you Shouldn’t be able to break free.Its a freakin elite skill .
Also , while dazed you’re free to move, even tho you can’t use your skills.
And no thief can kill you in a second and half.You have plenty of time to react and negate the rest of the burst (if you didn’t do it in the first place),evade and heal .Those hits is all they have.If they miss that burst they have nothing left but for you to kill them.If you can’t manage that well you’re just not good enough.Or what you just can’t keep up whit the speed?Thats just you buddy.Screaming for nerfs is just pathetic.

But I realy don’t mind Thieves getting looked at.Nerfing one area while buffing the other.Sure if it has too..for all of ya slowww people.:)I realy liked the other nerf on Assassin’s signet.Bring us more of those.

I suggest you watch the video and pay attention to the rangers skillbar. As soon as the thief hits him all the rangers skills go on CD most for 1.5 seconds some for 3, meaning he cannot possibly use any skills to escape (or break stun). By the time he has his skills available again, he is down to about 2.5k hp. He is ALSO immobilized so cannot move either. This guy is literally helpless in that situation.

I’m not saying it couldn’t have been avoided with a different build or utility setup.. Also like I said before it damage is fine imo.. I would just like to see more skill involved in the execution of the combo. (as a thief player because I like a challenge rather then a faceroll win, which is why neither my mesmer or thief use any build you will find on these forums and are built more towards fighting in outnumbered situations).

He HAS no stun breaker on his bar. When you get stunned, any skill that can’t be used during a stun is shown on cooldown. Stun breakers and such are not. He couldn’t use anything because the moron was running around with three traps.

This thread is about thief beind OP , NOT how easy they execute their skills.
Conclusion? Thief is not OP.
’nuff said.

People saying that 100B warrior can do similar or even greater damage in shorter time frame are right. However when I allow myself to be stunned and 100B comboed by a warrior it is my own kitten fault. I got outplayed. It happened to me few times that I died in 1 second from warrior. But every time this happened it was either me not paying attention to my surroundings or me loosing a cat and mouse game with a warrior. Most of the times it is evident that a warrior is after me and he wants to charge/bull rush me. I have a visual warning, it is up to me to use my cooldowns and dodges properly and to keep my distance or just simple dodge the BR when I see it coming. How many times I died to thieves backstabbing me from stealth? I cant even count. Most of the times by the time I realize what is going on I am already dead or lingering at 10% HP (gogo heartseeker spam). If I will play really well and the warrior is not very bright, the warrior will not even touch me. Against even a thief facerolling his keyboard my best case scenario is that I will survive with 10% HP blowing all my defensive cooldowns and thanking God that the thief was too scared to chase me further. Balance!

OMG you 0 have understanding of a class and how to counter it and you cry for nerfs.You don’t even try.How pathetic.Learn how to counter the thief.You can’t possibly expect to be able to counter a Thief the same way as a Warrior.Be aware of surroundings.Thief wont stealth untill he is realy close you.Impossible not to see him if you look around.Never had a thief speak up on me.You’re just terrible.Those kind of thieves that burst down people that fast has no Defensive utilities , extreamly low health and defence.You don’t freak out and run the other way around.You deserve to die ! You atack back.Dodge ,You knock him down.You imobilise him.You stun him.Daze him.Chill him…..SHOULD I GO ON? For crying out loud ,this whining..Its emberrassing.

I think if they nerf thief again I’m done with this game.

No thankfully ANET is not stupid.I have complete trust in them.What ever nerfs and buffs might accur wont make the thief class any less awesome than it is right now:)

You said no thief can skill you in 1.5sec, you know their backstab combo can be done in less than .5sec even without quickness right?
As for stun breakers, you guys should realize that they fix stun, daze, fear, and knockdowns, not just stuns. They just don’t work on most conditions, including immobilization.

Backstab combo? Lets see..Steal + C&D+BS Thats about 1.5 seconds and its not enough to take someone down.Id love to see ya try that on a Warrior whit over 30k HP and some decent thoughness.

Thieves have trouble with Guardians and Mesmers who know how to play and build their characters (both have favorable match-ups), and Engineers and Elementalists can be nasty match-ups as well.

The issue is that most players are unbelievably bad, have no concept of how to play or build their characters – or how to defend themselves – and as such die pretty much instantly when you jump on them. These combos are ‘you must be at least this tall to play’ bad player detectors; that you need to be able to counter a very straightforward and pretty linear combo before the back and forth begins – and a lot of players fail this basic test.

Believe it or not thieves do have to learn to play in order to beat other classes that are competently played. You just see a lot of bottom feeding with the thief, because it is an excellent bottom feeder, and why not bottom feed when your opponents are terrible and would rather complain than learn to play.

I’ve been hit by a Mug/C&D/Backstab combo exactly once in the past 3 weeks, and I absolutely deserved to eat it because it was my own misplay that set me up for it. If you’re getting killed by that combo frequently, it’s probably because you’re doing something wrong and need to get better at the game.

I think culling should really be fixed before addressing more “Balance” issues. Most of these complaints are that thieves “pop out of stealth and facerape” This is a misconception considering that they would have revealed debuff and wouldn’t be able to go into stealth for a bit for a backstab.

That and people really are terrible at this game. I’ve spanked thieves with both my Ele and as a thief (P/P and Shortbow) so i don’t see what the issue is with this type of build. It’s REALLY easy to tell what they are going to do. It’s incredibly predictable. You target and notice the basilisk venom has been applied, get ready to try and dodge / have your stunbreak up and push their kitten in when they’ve blown their Cooldowns and try to “HS spam” you to death while having a decent amount of health.

OH NOES BUT THEY WENT INVIS!

Just because they went invis doesn’t mean they are invuln. Keep moving / dodging. don’t let them get behind you. You don’t have to see them to know they are trying to get to your back. Also, don’t freaking MOVE backwards (as in pressing “s”) because it’s slow as hell. Dodge backwards/ use sporadic movements/ use defensive cooldowns (Arcade shield / Mistform come to mind in terms of Stunbreak / Defensive cooldowns.) It really isn’t that bad. It’s as easy to predict as the Warrior’s instagib 100b combo. Just gotta be a little smart and realize that just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean you can’t beat the crap out of them.

dank.3680:

LoneWolfie.1852:

gaspara.4079:

dank.3680:

In my opinion (as a thief player), just adding a 5 ini cost to backstab would change a lot of things.. Sure you keep the initial burst, but then you REALLY do pay for it like people claim (oh I BS then I can’t do anything- BULL).. I can CND/BS repeatedly forever with my build even throwing a heartseeker in after every BS to keep gap closed. It’s a bit cheesy IMO / no I don’t use glass full burst build or use any stuns.

As others have mentioned making it so you can’t pre-cast CND then Steal would make a huge difference as well, it feels cheesy and gimmicky every time I do it.

Anyone who thinks the thief burst doesn’t need tweaked in some way is a poor player who is scared to adapt to a thief that would actually take skill to score kills.

When I can insta-gib a true 80 in wvw and I’m NOT berserker built, SOMETHING is wrong.

BTW – Those who scream oh just get some toughness.. My Mesmer is in FULL Knights gear armor/weapon/trinkets(exotic except for trinkets atm AND I have 25 points down the toughness trait line) and I can still be burst down in one venom by a glass thief.. If my Blink happens to be on CD when I get hit well GG, that is just lame IMO.

First off, but if you blink is on CD you will destroy them basically every time.

Honestly I feel that the only thing that needs to be done is put a .1 second cast on steal so that you can’t precast with it. This would hurt a couple of other precast usages but would force the thief to shadowstep in then have 1 second to cast and land CnD or would force them to use another mechanic to enter stealth or close the gap.

This would effectively force players using the all signets insta-gib combo to drop a signet for either a stealth or gap closer either of which would be on longer cool down than steal.

The main reason why CnD is paired is because the precast time for CnD is atrocious. Even if you shadowstep and hit that CnD it will never hit in time due to lag or miss half the time because the enemy dodges away. Makes me wonder why non-thieves are even trying to suggest solutions which will effectively cripple the thief class.

Wait…

Oh wait, I do play Thief… And I don’t use a LOLBURST build. I have a sustained backstab build, which means I do less damage per burst but use CND and Backstab continually during a battle. I am well aware of the cast time of CND, this is where actual skill and awareness comes into the situation so you can land it correctly the majority of the time. “Lag” which is hardly much of a factor in this game, is NOT something to base balance off of and is a lame excuse to boot.

The only constant, sustainable viable backstab build I know of is S/D combination where there are a number of utilities, daze, blind, crippling strike, stealth, health regain under stealth and immobilize. That LOLBURST you mention is indeed a one hit wonder because every other skill and traits went into that. Is it gimmicky, sure. Is it overpowered in PVP? Erm…. I think I have huge trouble winning points or even escaping other players after using everything, and that cooldown is every 45 seconds.

Is it overpowered against WvW players? More often that not, killing anything below 80 and 80 with master gear is cheese easy. Full exotic geared players have a fighting chance and I think it’s 70/30 if the thief got it right, otherwise skilled players will hit endure pain or use their mesmer skill to run away.

The problem here is really the whiners are now coming in with their glass builds or master/rare gear and complaining about how instantgib build that has a 45 seconds cooldown should be nerfed. Get your exotics and learn to trait. The build isn’t unbeatable.

So pretty much you are saying that everyone should be sporting a full bunker build from the sole reason that there thieves in this game? My playstyle is an extremely careful approach. I play a ranged class and to be honest I die rarely becouse I tend to avoid putting myself in the harms way. Of course this also means less effective offense since I am not going to risk myself into chasing someone when I do not feel confident about it. Some can call this a chicken playstyle, I say better safe than sorry. In sPvP I tend to die from different things becouse area is very confined and sometimes its just either you or them. But for example in WvW I would say that around 90% of all my deaths is when I get jumped by the thief. The only scenario when, if executed properly by a thief, a have absolutely no response to. People telling me to L2P when I just get wtfstomped in 2 seconds by an unknown entity which appears out from stealth when I am already either dead or lingering at 10% are just thief players who are affraid that ANet will nerf their ability to dominate other people and feel as superior human beings becouse of that.

Awe, why don’t you play a thief in WvW and try using against full exotic players who are skilled? And honestly, balancing WvW is honestly silly instead of a PvP scenario is just plain silly.

I play thief and specifically backstab build in spvp, broken as hell. Maybe when this backstab build finally gets nerfed we might see less thieves in 8v8s. Thieves have a few weapon sets that are underpowered right now, those should be buffed.

Take care in nerfing so that the other builds dont get crippled.

NightyNight.1823:

The majority of people here complaining about Thieves never even heard of stun breakers .The recent video added on Thief forum is just the evidence of that.Should we take them into consideration?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZMl4S4C7Sk
The Thief is obviously OP whit that 5k Back Stab.
Warriors Eviscerate can pull the same damage and doesn’t take that much possitioning and buffing.

Man nice wid !!! This video you proved that it is possible to man lived without a brain and still could write on forum.
Zero stun break only traps ??? Next time L2P your class and then maybe you will understand that without the “stun break” can not play against any class.

If thiefs need a nerf then also a warriors need that. And also other class…because all class have a burst spec, but they can choose, thiefs not.

Of cpurse there are alot players defending the thief. Its basiicly half of the game population right now.

From 10 Enemies i encounter in WvW there are 6 thieves, 2 mesmers, 1 guardian and 1 spot for the rest of classes. The only people i know in person which didnt rolled a thief are the ones that are afraid of loosing thier dignity.

Its just the noobclasses thief and mesmer that are totally inbalanced, compared to an elementalist or engineer they need no skill at all.

just take a look ingame look at the dude right of you, now turn left and look to the other dude, right. Srsly in WvW there are complete zergs which consist of mesmers and thieves.

Evilek.5690:

NightyNight.1823:

The majority of people here complaining about Thieves never even heard of stun breakers .The recent video added on Thief forum is just the evidence of that.Should we take them into consideration?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZMl4S4C7Sk
The Thief is obviously OP whit that 5k Back Stab.
Warriors Eviscerate can pull the same damage and doesn’t take that much possitioning and buffing.

Man nice wid !!! This video you proved that it is possible to man lived without a brain and still could write on forum.
Zero stun break only traps ??? Next time L2P your class and then maybe you will understand that without the “stun break” can not play against any class.

OK that is uncalled for, theres no need to insult people. Also, ur insulted the wrong person, the one who claims to be the ranger is Mishtif over at the “Hummm do Thief’s need a nerf?!?!” Please do some research before opening your mouth, your embarrassing us.

Kontrolle.3514:

Of cpurse there are alot players defending the thief. Its basiicly half of the game population right now.

From 10 Enemies i encounter in WvW there are 6 thieves, 2 mesmers, 1 guardian and 1 spot for the rest of classes. The only people i know in person which didnt rolled a thief are the ones that are afraid of loosing thier dignity.

Its just the noobclasses thief and mesmer that are totally inbalanced, compared to an elementalist or engineer they need no skill at all.

just take a look ingame look at the dude right of you, now turn left and look to the other dude, right. Srsly in WvW there are complete zergs which consist of mesmers and thieves.

[sarcasm] And WvW is the pinnacle of balance and gives a 100% completely unbiased view of the population. [/sarcasm]

LoneWolfie.1852:

The only constant, sustainable viable backstab build I know of is S/D combination where there are a number of utilities, daze, blind, crippling strike, stealth, health regain under stealth and immobilize. That LOLBURST you mention is indeed a one hit wonder because every other skill and traits went into that. Is it gimmicky, sure. Is it overpowered in PVP? Erm…. I think I have huge trouble winning points or even escaping other players after using everything, and that cooldown is every 45 seconds.

Is it overpowered against WvW players? More often that not, killing anything below 80 and 80 with master gear is cheese easy. Full exotic geared players have a fighting chance and I think it’s 70/30 if the thief got it right, otherwise skilled players will hit endure pain or use their mesmer skill to run away.

The problem here is really the whiners are now coming in with their glass builds or master/rare gear and complaining about how instantgib build that has a 45 seconds cooldown should be nerfed. Get your exotics and learn to trait. The build isn’t unbeatable.

How is S/D a backstab build? lol… FYI I run 10-30-30 with valk armor/weaps and zerker jewels. Shadow/powder/speed signet and dagger storm.

(with ruby orbs in the armor bcuz im broke) It’s a balanced build that is both offensive and defensive, and works very well for sustained cnd/backstab attacks.

NightyNight.1823:

Backstab combo? Lets see..Steal + C&D+BS Thats about 1.5 seconds and its not enough to take someone down.Id love to see ya try that on a Warrior whit over 30k HP and some decent thoughness.

You can use C&D prior to Steal, so if you time it right all three hits can connect almost as fast as the Backstab animation.

That combo doesn’t insta kill you and If you don’t take into consideration positioning (that if you don’t care hitting from behind) its still 1.5secs or more.If you walk around whit not even the minimum defences and not paying attention to your surroandings you deserve to be facerolled.
And any class can do that to you not just the thieves.
I found warriors quite scary.Been bull rushed ,then hb, and even tho i evaded the momment I got ,it it still took a big chunk of my hp and get facerolled by the next eviscerate.Considering he used quickness that happened very fast too.Do you hear me complaining? No its my fault because I didn’t took my time to look around and see him comming.
Ohh and rolling full damage spec whitout defences and expect to survive a class best damage output.Thats silly ..

Thieves are fine, a glass cannon thief gets killed in no time not to mention conditions kill you if you try to run. You just have to be smart. Stop all the QQ. It was intended to be a burst class, take away the burst and there is nothing. Lots of people counter me, just l2p.

If that war has 30k hp, its using a tank build., also most classes don’t have nearly that much hp.
Walking through a character doesn’t take an entire second, maybe .2seconds. And it’s best to sneak up from behind anyway. CnD>mug (.2~.1beforeCnD ends)>backstab
Backstab itself is a .25 activation time, absolutely anybody can time mug to activate with CnD already 50%+ done everytime. So that’s >.25+.25+.2=>.7 from front, or >.5 from back, even you have bad timing skills. That still leaves 1sec of immobilization left. Now add quickness. The combo is now >.25sec from behind, and the thief still has at least 3 sec quickness. The guy will probably have a stun breaker, but a non tank would have taken around 13k-15k damage and should be an easy kill at this point (average reaction time +ping means the attack will most likely connect before the stun breaker goes off).
The mobility? You still have 7 initiative left and a skill slot. So you swap to your bow and using the warp skill + shadowstep.

Thing is its not just about the probability of winning or losing, but that the other players don’t have fun with these types of fights. A) get rolled, or B ) survive and chase the thief. Other builds have more of a “I lost because I didn’t play well enough” feeling, rather than a “I lost before I could do anything” type feeling.
And yes, some people do consider war OP, but they’re much easier to see coming and don’t burst quite as quickly, so they’ll complain about thieves first.

Kontrolle.3514:

Of cpurse there are alot players defending the thief. Its basiicly half of the game population right now.

From 10 Enemies i encounter in WvW there are 6 thieves, 2 mesmers, 1 guardian and 1 spot for the rest of classes. The only people i know in person which didnt rolled a thief are the ones that are afraid of loosing thier dignity.

Its just the noobclasses thief and mesmer that are totally inbalanced, compared to an elementalist or engineer they need no skill at all.

just take a look ingame look at the dude right of you, now turn left and look to the other dude, right. Srsly in WvW there are complete zergs which consist of mesmers and thieves.

Oh really, a zerg of nothing but Mesmers and Thieves? Screenshot? Seriously, roll up a full on glass cannon Shatter Mesmer and jump into sPvP…I eat FotM rerollers for lunch.

@ Crewthief he is probably one of those people where he encountered a group of all thieves a few times in wvwvw and will say it happens all the time. He probably just faced the Thief guild we have going whos main purpose it to hunt people….lol

A back stab thief is the easiest of them all to counter and beat.If you have problems against them you don’t stand a chance against the others.

NightyNight.1823:

A back stab thief is the easiest of them all to counter and beat.If you have problems against them you don’t stand a chance against the others.

If it’s such a bad spec then why is there such an outpour of anguish over it being nerfed?

A 100b war or the old spike ele are both far easier to avoid. As far as spikes go, its one of the better ones.