Guild Wars 2

Christonya.3856:

- Channeled vigor.

I am still trying to wrap my mind around this skill. So the acrobatic fighter, designed to dodge and avoid all damage, is suppose to stop.. and channel? This skill I feel needs a complete redesign.

You can move while using it and it restores somewhere around half of your endurance bar during usage. It’s not perfect, but it’s a lot more usable than people were expecting.

I just want to say that the autoattack animations with staff are atrocious.

On the plus side, asuran vault looks pretty neat.

Just Jeff.6235:

Daredevil elite skill, Impact Strike, is too slow to finish off Mesmers, Elementalists, and Thiefs using their downed skill 2s. Even with the launch from the second hit they still have enough time to escape the finish. Don’t know if this was the intent but this skill seems unnecessary with its current state considering how it leaves a Daredevil wide open to attacks. It’s much more practical to use blinds, Shadowstep, or stealth to stomp still.

I was able to catch mesmers and eles off guard not expecting the the launch, it sort of messes up there timing,
but i did have a thief port out of it, almost like mid air.

Tonikor.5637:

I’ll start by saying I support your idea OP, I even made the same suggestion a couple of days ago, but 70% of the replies were against it, now everyone loves it. Go figure.

Im much too disapointed and tired right now to give a lot of feedback, but might as well give something:

- A revenant dodges and removes a condition on itself and its allies, without requiring to evade anything at all.

- A thief dodges and removes a condition on itself, if an attack is evaded.

Doesnt seem very fair now does it?

Now as to Staff, most of you are already crying and complaining but you rooted for this instead of a RIFLE. Yeah, thats right.
Staff is bad, its boring, it needs a complete rework to be viable/more viable than the other weapon sets.

As for the skills:
- Daze daggers make no sense with a precast, and are not worth using over other utilities in any situation.
- Immob/Slow daggers are cool but weak, 25second cd for such low damage and low condition time (4s slow 2s immob) is not worth it over other utilities.
- Heal makes absolutely no sense for reasons already stated.
- The block is really cool, thief needed this. But the tooltip needs to be more in depth and mention its attack range for example.
- Fists of fury is a really cool concept, but the damage is bad. Five hits? really? its impossible to successfuly land this more than 1/10 times due to evades, blinds, blocks, invulnerabilities, range, etc. Needs to be reduced to 3 hits or have its cast time increased. If it were for me id make it the other way around: Palm strike for 2 sec stun, if it hits, strike the enemy for kittens, if they all hit, deliver pulmunay-whatever.
- The Elite is really cool, yeah, but its INCREDIBLY HARD to land the second and third hits, simply because it has 130 range, and oh boy thats frustrating.

peace.

Are you really suggesting the Revenant’s dodge roll to remove 1 condi AoE with a 10’second cool down on their support tree that basically no one uses…. Is worse… Than the 1 seconds ICD for 1 condition removed when you evade on the most evadey of characters in the game… If anything the DD had that was a huge perk to playing it, it was this… A potential of 5-8 conditions removed every 10 seconds out classes just about any other single source of condition removal in the game…

Hello, so elite specialisation should give us a feeling of playing a completely different class, but it’s really hard to feel that way when 80% of animations are reused. Holding staff animation is reused from hammer, and it just dont suit the martial art style of daredevil. I don’t know why anet didnt use monkey king tonic animations for daredevil, they suit the class a lot more. Also why anet made unique animations for tonic, but for elite spec they just use reused animation? Tonics are more important?
The skill 1 has reused animations from revenant staff, they are not that bad, but still feels clunky. Skill 4 has reused animation from consortium harvesting sickle and shovels from SW. I did a lot of SW chest farm, so I just cannot stand that animation. Elite skill has 2 reused animations too. Also all new dodges have reused animation. Reused animations everywhere. Thief is my main from beginnig and I really liked concept of daredevil, but with all these reused animations I just cannot enjoy playing daredevil. It really feels like daredevil is unorignal.

Most of what I came here to post about regarding the Daredevil seems to have already been conveyed, several times in fact but just to reiterate the things I noticed the most:

1) Weakening Charge – This skill NEEDS to work like Heartseeker and track your target and NOT like some un-targetable whirl that shoots off in whatever direction you happen to be looking.

2) Grandmaster Dodge Augmentations – I feel that these traits are suppose to be the “Modified class mechanic” that the Daredevil has access to, so it was VERY disappointing to find that they actually make the thief WORSE at avoiding things, and after playing around with it I actually found the class worked better if you left the Grandmaster UN-SELECTED. The slow, awkward animations to these new dodges seem really hard to control sometimes and very predictable other times, they need desperately to be made more fluid and inline with the default dodge in terms of usability.

3) Staff Utility – I really wanted the staff to be good, especially since it’s just another melee weapon (when we probably could’ve used a ranged) but it feels like it has no real purpose in the thieves kit right now, it offers no combo fields, no boons, very little room for ability synergy with other weapons/steal/utilities and most of the abilities (minus Vault) don’t really hit as hard as you might expect from a 2-handed weapon. In general I found myself ignoring the staff in favor of Sword/X because sword had much more synergy with utilities and many of the traits (apart from staff mastery obviously).

4) Dust Strike – I don’t know about others but I found myself using this skill very little, mainly because it seemed to be very unreliable as to whether or not it hit its target (almost like Scorpion Wire). Even if the target was well within the skills range it seemed like the dust “projectile” was getting blocked/destroyed by the slightest terrain features.

5) Debilitating Arc – I see what was trying to be done with this skill, give staff a skill much like sword/dagger/dagger has that allows you to spend initiative in exchange for evade frames but the problem with staff unlike dagger or sword is it lacks a gap closer and the evade launches you back AWAY from your target making it really hard to stay on target (in PvP/WvW) if you use this skill a lot, the only ‘gap closer’ staff has is Vault which only has a 600 range and is way to expensive/slow to be reliably used to close gaps.

Which brings me to the last skill…

6) Vault – Now this skill I like but I still have a few issues with it, namely it feels SLOW and perhaps because of its damage it is suppose to be slow but the farther away you try and use it the longer it takes to land, and at max range (600) an enemy can literally just walk out of the impact site before you land whereas if you vault at point-blank range you can pound a target with damage almost immediately, also for 6 initiative I feel like the ending of the vault, the “blast” that does the damage should count as a blast-finisher if you land inside a combo field so that the initial ‘leap’ counts as a leap-finisher, and the final ‘blast’ would count as a blast-finisher this would make the skill unique and reward you for picking your landing site more.

I was really hyped to try the Daredevil after the PoI reveal stream, but after actually playing it I have to say I’m disappointed with the initial results and am hoping that many of the issues brought forth in this thread can be addressed before launch, because there is great potential for synergy here provided that everything is made less clunky-feeling.

TL;DR -In closing, I’ve Played this game for almost 2700 hours since launch, 2500 of which are on thief and in it’s current state I’m not sure if I would ever use Daredevil over even the current Acrobatics it’s just too awkward and clunky.

One thing I feel I MUST add. I do not belive the traitline trash or that no thought went into it. I really like it. I think overall it well done and does create a different combat style. It needs a bit of work just as all the other elite specs did.

It already fun and in my opinion will be more so once it tuned.

ronpierce.2760:

Tonikor.5637:

I’ll start by saying I support your idea OP, I even made the same suggestion a couple of days ago, but 70% of the replies were against it, now everyone loves it. Go figure.

Im much too disapointed and tired right now to give a lot of feedback, but might as well give something:

- A revenant dodges and removes a condition on itself and its allies, without requiring to evade anything at all.

- A thief dodges and removes a condition on itself, if an attack is evaded.

Doesnt seem very fair now does it?

Now as to Staff, most of you are already crying and complaining but you rooted for this instead of a RIFLE. Yeah, thats right.
Staff is bad, its boring, it needs a complete rework to be viable/more viable than the other weapon sets.

As for the skills:
- Daze daggers make no sense with a precast, and are not worth using over other utilities in any situation.
- Immob/Slow daggers are cool but weak, 25second cd for such low damage and low condition time (4s slow 2s immob) is not worth it over other utilities.
- Heal makes absolutely no sense for reasons already stated.
- The block is really cool, thief needed this. But the tooltip needs to be more in depth and mention its attack range for example.
- Fists of fury is a really cool concept, but the damage is bad. Five hits? really? its impossible to successfuly land this more than 1/10 times due to evades, blinds, blocks, invulnerabilities, range, etc. Needs to be reduced to 3 hits or have its cast time increased. If it were for me id make it the other way around: Palm strike for 2 sec stun, if it hits, strike the enemy for kittens, if they all hit, deliver pulmunay-whatever.
- The Elite is really cool, yeah, but its INCREDIBLY HARD to land the second and third hits, simply because it has 130 range, and oh boy thats frustrating.

peace.

Are you really suggesting the Revenant’s dodge roll to remove 1 condi AoE with a 10’second cool down on their support tree that basically no one uses…. Is worse… Than the 1 seconds ICD for 1 condition removed when you evade on the most evadey of characters in the game… If anything the DD had that was a huge perk to playing it, it was this… A potential of 5-8 conditions removed every 10 seconds out classes just about any other single source of condition removal in the game…

Maybe in PvP (although that seems unlikely) in PvE you’re just dead wrong.

It will be very rare if not impossible to successfully EVADE 5-8 attacks with 5-8 SEPARATE DODGE ROLLS in 10 seconds. You simply will not have the endurance for it unless you spec into Acrobatics AND Daredevil AND Trickery AND take endurance regen food and maybe some appropriate sigils. Good luck with that. You’ll hit like a wet noodle. Everyone who thinks this trait is OP needs to buy a clue: 1) its on Evade NOT Dodge which means that if the game doesn’t register it as an evade (i.e., you dodged out of that circle a little too quickly my friend no “EVADE” for you) you get skrewed and 2) it cures 1 condition with a 1 second cool down – it does not matter if you evade 5 attacks with 1 dodge you cleanse 1 condition. Potential =/= reality. If you are lucky and DON’T take any of the Grandmaster dodges (which actually make it harder to dodge effectively) you can probably cleanse 4 conditions in 10 seconds if all you do is dodge. Of course while you’re doing that nothing is dying unless someone else is killing if for you . . .

Dust Strike needs to kick up a Smoke Field that sits there for 3 seconds, and Vault ABSOLUTELY needs to be a Blast Finisher. All of the Staff attacks need to be faster.

So far, it seems like any time I try to use the Staff on Thief, I just end up asking myself, “Why am I not on my Warrior? He does all the same things, but better, and with more baseline Health & Armor!”

As for the additions to Dodge, I rather like those, as long as I’m not using Staff. The Daredevil trait line is still a bit weak in comparison to existing Thief trait lines, however, so as it stands now, it’s hard to see it getting much use.

The Physical Skills… I’m still trying to get the hang of those. Really, Impairing Daggers is the only new Skill that even seems useful, and the only one that actually feels like a THIEF skill. The other problem, of course, is that these Physical Skills are competing with Shadow Refuge, Shadowstep, Blinding Powder, Infiltrator’s Signet, Venoms (for Venom Share Thieves), Signet of Shadows (25% movement speed), and so on. And it’s really, REALLY hard to imagine giving up Basilisk Venom in the Elite slot for Impact Strike, unless Impact Strike is massively buffed. Like, if the Stun and Uppercut could hit up to 3 Targets in the same radius as melee weapon skills, or if the skill suddenly did a ton of damage. Even Dancing Daggers and Thieves Guild will probably see more use than Impact Strike in its current state.

The Staff is really fun, at least (^_^).
It just needs to be more on-par with the existing weapon sets, or give me some reason to use this weapon on Thief instead of simply using another class that’s better-suited to be the Bruiser in a group.

Otokomae.9356:

Like, if the Stun and Uppercut could hit up to 3 Targets in the same radius as melee weapon skills, or if the skill suddenly did a ton of damage. Even Dancing Daggers and Thieves Guild will probably see more use than Impact Strike in its current state.

Correct me if I’m wrong but in pvp, Impact strike on a light armor golem take away half his life, that’s already a ton of dammage.

My few impressions (as a semi-casual PvE player) who mains a thief.

The focus on dodging is perfect for me, as my playstyle is based around dodges (Caltrops + DD dodges are a lot of fun )

I’ll put in another voice behind the need for a different way to switch between dodges. The F3 – F5 option sounds good, or something like choosing a pet for rangers. I don’t need it in combat, but I often want one dodge when roaming, and a different dodge in big fights, etc. Having to stop, open my traits, and change them is a pain. Also having the vanilla dodge as an option would be good.

I like how staff feels overall, but it does seem a little slow to me. I’d like to see it a little faster or a little more damage.

Distracting Daggers does not stay available long enough to be useful, in my opinion. I echo the suggestion that it work like a mantra.

I like the idea of fist flurry/palm strike, but it just didn’t feel very useful to me when i played with it.

Impacting strike doesn’t feel useful in PvE to me. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad skill, because it sounds like it’d be kitten in PvP or WvW.

Maugetarr.6823:

Lyger.5429:

Just wanted to devs to have a mental note about reworking acrobatics on base thief. With the DD spec acro has sorta lost it’s identity. I suggest perhaps looking a improving shadow steps with acrobatics (maybe rename). Since thief has so many forms of shadowsteps augmenting them with the trait line could open new ways to play.

This sounds familiar

Wow those are great ideas! But I have a feeling anet will leave acrobatics as it is and play around with shadowsteps for the “assassin” e-spec (I hope not though cause acro needs some love in some way).

The largest issue I have with Daredevil so far is staff skill 2. It always carries you forward in the direction you’re facing, like Warrior greatsword 3, but is activated like Warrior greatsword 5 without an enemy targeted, where you charge past.

It’d feel a bit better to use if it automatically went in the direction of your targeted enemy.

Impact.2780:

Edit: Just did a quick check to be sure, and it turns out it’s the same travel distance as a normal dodge after all. This is surprising because both myself and a friend yesterday swore it was a longer distance, and it really affected the flow of our combat. He even stuck by that when he switched to duel me on another class. I wonder what it is that makes it feel like you’re going further, because I swear it messes up positioning. Perhaps it’s the cast time and or after cast? If so, great, please fix that and it’s two birds with one stone!

I know exactly what you’re talking about, I checked this thread again to see if anyone said anything about it. I’m assuming it’s the aftercast because on normal dodge I can position while staying within swing range of my target pretty consistently. With the new dodge animations, I found myself have to trot a step or two back or forward to get within swing range again and that I couldn’t position on any directional side of my target reliably.

kash.9213:

Impact.2780:

Edit: Just did a quick check to be sure, and it turns out it’s the same travel distance as a normal dodge after all. This is surprising because both myself and a friend yesterday swore it was a longer distance, and it really affected the flow of our combat. He even stuck by that when he switched to duel me on another class. I wonder what it is that makes it feel like you’re going further, because I swear it messes up positioning. Perhaps it’s the cast time and or after cast? If so, great, please fix that and it’s two birds with one stone!

I know exactly what you’re talking about, I checked this thread again to see if anyone said anything about it. I’m assuming it’s the aftercast because on normal dodge I can position while staying within swing range of my target pretty consistently. With the new dodge animations, I found myself have to trot a step or two back or forward to get within swing range again and that I couldn’t position on any directional side of my target reliably.

To further echo (and maybe hopefully explain) this feeling is that the new dodges seem to have wonky interaction with body-blocking.

If I (normal) dodge roll forward when I’m standing directly in front of my target, I roll through the target and end up directly behind it.

If I (bounding leap) dodge forward when I’m standing directly in front of my target, I seem to hang up on some kind of bodyblocking interaction. I do not end up directly behind it, but rather shunt off slightly behind and slightly to one side or the other. It makes me feel like I over-extend, and it takes me a few extra milliseconds to recognize my new position and reorient myself accordingly. If the target reacts during this time (adjusting to my new position) this ‘disorientation period’ is even longer.

i dont know if it has been mentioned yet (search function???) but daredevil cant dodge underwater

Amante.8109:

Christonya.3856:

- Channeled vigor.

I am still trying to wrap my mind around this skill. So the acrobatic fighter, designed to dodge and avoid all damage, is suppose to stop.. and channel? This skill I feel needs a complete redesign.

You can move while using it and it restores somewhere around half of your endurance bar during usage. It’s not perfect, but it’s a lot more usable than people were expecting.

Yes, but you can’t evade, you can be interrupted, you’re pretty much just running away from things hoping to get the entire channel off without taking any major damage or CC . Now I think I speak for all thieves when I say, we’re squishy, without the ability to evade we can easily be downed during the fight, it’s why I have kept using Withdraw, and have no intention of using Channeled Vigor again in it’s current state. I almost feel like adding distortion to it could make it really viable.

I’ll throw in my two bits:
Staff 2: I feel this could use a lockon. Not a huge problem.
Staff 4: The Dust Strike feels a bit slow. Maybe a 1/2 cast?
Dodges: All the dodges feel really chuggy at the start.

Two short general observations:

Skills & dodges lack fluidity.
I see no reason to use staff for the current content.

1.) Evasive Absolution needs to be rolled into Driven Fortitude for a number of reasons. first of all, 456 health on Successful evade with a 1s CD is a weak trait. In addition, evasive absolution becomes a “mandatory pick” for the master line due to the thief glaring lack of (non movement related) condition cleansing. DD thieves aren’t taking SA, and too much of Trickery’s usefulness is tied to BT/SoH to make trickster a viable alternative (Not that it would be anyway, with DD favoring physical skills by a wide margin). Please just give thieves some competent condition cleansing already.

2) Weakening charge needs to actually hit its target. If you’re not standing in the exact sweet spot distance wise, you’re lucky to get even a single hit out of weakening charge. If however you use it in conjuction with steal/Inf sig, it doesn’t travel through your target and suddenly it’s a useful and powerful skill. Considering the AoE nature of the staff, the best fix is probably extending the radius of the swings so that when you travel through a target (but still remain relatively close), the skill still hits.

3) Vault is crap. It’s a 1 second cast and it’s insanely obvious. I can’t tell you how many Staff thieves I watched vault into my dodge-trops because I had all the time in the world to evade the attack. The tiny radius means you can simply walk out of the effect while the thiefarina is still twirling around in the sky. It’s not even a good downstate cleave – adjust the casting time/damage if need be, but Vault needs help.

4) Bound is poorly designed. Unless your vision for bound was “D/P Stealth access at 50 endurance instead of 3 init”, Bound doesn’t do its job. If you’re dodging an attack, you’re most likely not hitting your target. At best, you’re causing some incidental AoE (which the game has far too much of already), or you’re blowing a dodge when you didn’t need to for a little extra damage to your target.

5) General clunkiness – All of the traited dodges are clunky, and I’ve noticed a number of the physical skills (especially bandits defense) don’t feel “responsive”. Perhaps this is because it’s a BWE, but it’s definitely something to be looked into.

6) Channeled vigor – DD is still a squishball class that survives by dodging. Standing still for any length of time is akin to begging for death. A 2.25s heal would have to restore something like 10k health to be even be considered worth trying. Since that isn’t likely to happen, you’ll need to figure something else out to make the heal viable.

Also going to list bugs and design flaws here, for added visibility.
Impairing daggers cost 1 init per dagger
Lotus training costs 1 init per dodge in combat
You can’t use steal while using a DD traited dodge or while using Vault
Endurance thief does not restore 50 endurance (it restores a seemingly random lesser amount)
Distracting Daggers setup skill should be instant cast
Dust strike projectile needs to be more visible – I’ve had a number miss that I feel probably should have hit, but I can’t see the effect to determine what went wrong.

Now for some positive points as a palette cleanser.
Bandits defense is a literal godsend – it’s a wonderful little skill, and forced KD on block feels like a fair window for counterplay.
Impact strike really helps with thief’s overall lack of stomping options.

Is it just me or does Punishing Strikes (Staff-auto 3) reflects projectiles? I’ve been debating this all day. If it’s true I wonder if it’s intended or a bug

My imput

Staff: The animations are bad. Let’s clean this up. Skill 2 needs to home in on target or needs to be more like the whirl attack from warrior GS. The 4 skill needs to be sped up just a bit to reliably avoid damage. Vault the 5 skill needs to lose the extra flip in air so it can land a bit faster. currently if you stealth attack and go into a vault they have too much time to avoid it….infact they can literally wait out the knock down then dodge.

Traits: The dodges all have a delay and need to be cleaned up. We need these to flow like normal dodge roll. Also fix all the bugs that have been mention previously. The cleanse condi on evade needs to be upped to 2 condi’s.

Utility skills: Well these need LOTS of work. Palm strike needs to have a small charge to it for it to land. Currently its a waste of a skill due to the extreme difficulty landing it. Impairing daggers and Distracting daggers need to have their LoS restrictions removed. We are high dexterity thieves and spinning to throw daggers behind us shouldn’t be a problem. I would also look into increasing the duration of impairing daggers to 30ish seconds.

Overall I like the concept of the Daredevil spec. The problem is it’s not ready for live at this time. Staff needs some serious rework because I find it bad that S/X out performs Staff in every way. I’m also depressed that S/P will prolly be the strongest set that utilizes DD……

BobbyT.7192:

Just Jeff.6235:

Daredevil elite skill, Impact Strike, is too slow to finish off Mesmers, Elementalists, and Thiefs using their downed skill 2s. Even with the launch from the second hit they still have enough time to escape the finish. Don’t know if this was the intent but this skill seems unnecessary with its current state considering how it leaves a Daredevil wide open to attacks. It’s much more practical to use blinds, Shadowstep, or stealth to stomp still.

I was able to catch mesmers and eles off guard not expecting the the launch, it sort of messes up there timing,
but i did have a thief port out of it, almost like mid air.

Instant skills cant be interrupted and in some cases can be done while disable like the thief port. The mesmer skill isn’t instant however if you don’t get to the 2nd hit before they use their skill then unless you get lucky you won’t be able to finish them with the skill.

The most glaring issues with this specialization are the cast times/aftercasts. In particular, the evasions that are available need attention pretty badly. Bound has a terrible aftercast that roots you in place every time you land, and there’s a slight pause before both dash and impaling lotus that make them feel unresponsive. Dash in particular has a poor animation, which often changes the way your character is facing when you use it, unlike regular evasions.

My biggest suggestion for the spec is to give dash the regular evasion animation, but with the increased distance and flashier effects. I hate to use the word clunky, because it’s been used so many times in this thread already, but that’s really the best word to describe how it feels when you use it.

Overall, none of the animations feel smooth enough. Weakening Charge is probably the biggest offender, there’s a pause before you spin, and there’s a horribly long aftercast — honestly, if you want people to use this thing you need to make it feel like a regular, non-daredevil evasion. Debilitating Arc feels like a throwaway skill that doesn’t really fit the playstyle. If you want it to fill the role of a disengage, it should feel more like Roll For Initiative (only dealing damage with not as much range). I honestly have no idea why Dust Strike has such a long cast time. The whole point of using blinds on a thief is that you’re reacting to specific, high-damage attacks, and unless that attack is longer than 3/4 seconds this is another throwaway skill. Vault is another skill that has way too long of a cast time.

The elite skill is the only new skill that I’ve put an actual effort into trying to use, and it isn’t good. Maybe I just need to learn to use it, but I haven’t landed all three hits in a single team fight or scenario where the person I was using it on wasn’t already downed. None of the other utilities were good enough to consider taking over what’s already available. Like, I don’t know why the devs seem so afraid of making really powerful utility skills on these elite specializations, every single utility is just so underwhelming compared to what we’ve been running for years. The physical skills seem cool and all but you have to design this stuff with the understanding that, if you want me to use a new physical skill, it’s going to require taking something like Shadowstep or Shadow Refuge off my bar, which is to say, it has to be incredibly good.

I actually liked Impact Strike. It’s nice if you use it on enemies that are very low on health. If you manage to time it right the combo – daze, knockdown– will insta-finish them. I found it kind of hard to use on allready downed enemies though.

Solaerin.8635:

The most glaring issues with this specialization are the cast times/aftercasts. In particular, the evasions that are available need attention pretty badly. Bound has a terrible aftercast that roots you in place every time you land, and there’s a slight pause before both dash and impaling lotus that make them feel unresponsive. Dash in particular has a poor animation, which often changes the way your character is facing when you use it, unlike regular evasions.

My biggest suggestion for the spec is to give dash the regular evasion animation, but with the increased distance and flashier effects. I hate to use the word clunky, because it’s been used so many times in this thread already, but that’s really the best word to describe how it feels when you use it.

Overall, none of the animations feel smooth enough. Weakening Charge is probably the biggest offender, there’s a pause before you spin, and there’s a horribly long aftercast — honestly, if you want people to use this thing you need to make it feel like a regular, non-daredevil evasion. Debilitating Arc feels like a throwaway skill that doesn’t really fit the playstyle. If you want it to fill the role of a disengage, it should feel more like Roll For Initiative (only dealing damage with not as much range). I honestly have no idea why Dust Strike has such a long cast time. The whole point of using blinds on a thief is that you’re reacting to specific, high-damage attacks, and unless that attack is longer than 3/4 seconds this is another throwaway skill. Vault is another skill that has way too long of a cast time.

The elite skill is the only new skill that I’ve put an actual effort into trying to use, and it isn’t good. Maybe I just need to learn to use it, but I haven’t landed all three hits in a single team fight or scenario where the person I was using it on wasn’t already downed. None of the other utilities were good enough to consider taking over what’s already available. Like, I don’t know why the devs seem so afraid of making really powerful utility skills on these elite specializations, every single utility is just so underwhelming compared to what we’ve been running for years. The physical skills seem cool and all but you have to design this stuff with the understanding that, if you want me to use a new physical skill, it’s going to require taking something like Shadowstep or Shadow Refuge off my bar, which is to say, it has to be incredibly good.

These are exactly my feelings as well. The new gm dodges are each aforementionedly clunky in some way. Staff doesn’t feel as convenient as other melee sets and personally I feel staff skills lack synergy among themselves. I found myself fighting not to weapon swap as I wanted to learn and figure out how to get better with the staff, but the clunky feeling overshadows it too much. I may need more practice though.

Physical skills are nice and fun to use, some more than the others, but are they good enough to take over some of the good ol’ ones? I feel they are a bit too situational and the melee ones are really hard to land, even with cast+steal or cast+infi signet combo.

Already posted this in a reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jn2m4/daredevil_elite_specialization_beta_thread/)

I’m mostly fine with the Daredevil. I just don’t like the recycled staff anims; they don’t suit (I’ll be using this video for references on what I thought they’d look like and use timestamp urls for specific moves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mJ3mRlE7dw)

Punishing Strikes (staff 1, 3rd chain) : Expected this – https://youtu.be/7mJ3mRlE7dw?t=274

Weakening Charge: Eh, it’s alright

Dust Strike: Expected this – https://youtu.be/7mJ3mRlE7dw?t=110

Debilitating Arc: Expected the first strike of this, followed by a dodge roll – https://youtu.be/7mJ3mRlE7dw?t=138

Vault: Mostly fine, just feels a bit clunky at the end.

Only other problem I can think of is with Impaling Lotus, which has a delay before it starts. Oh, and the special dodges go less distance with quickness.

Lots of the complaints with daredevil have been addressed by everyone else, I’ll just mention something that would turn me off as a Charr thief based on set animations.

Punishing Strikes – Last attack you THROW the staff and it spins. Really doesn’t make sense. Try getting two hands out there. If you need to give a sense of extremely fast manual dexterity, blur the hands like you do the character when we’re evading.

Debilitating Arc – There’s a lack of animation. See this should be a quick sweep of the staff before you evade.

Dust strike – Same animation as a hammer knockback. Should stick the staff into the ground, then flick it up to throw dust. Would be a lot more fluent.

Vault – We’re cannon balling. A single flip before planting the staff would work just as well.

Fist Flurry- I understand it’s called Fist Flurry, but we’re charr, we have claws, if you make the strikes work with open hand claws and it’ll feel like we’re actually using something they have naturally. Some people might disagree with it but I mention this because the claws are the length of daggers and don’t get any use.

Finishing Blow – Might want to cut out the part from the standard finisher where we raise both arms before delivering the blow.

kisagari.7413:

Already posted this in a reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jn2m4/daredevil_elite_specialization_beta_thread/)

I’m mostly fine with the Daredevil. I just don’t like the recycled staff anims; they don’t suit (I’ll be using this video for references on what I thought they’d look like and use timestamp urls for specific moves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mJ3mRlE7dw)

Punishing Strikes (staff 1, 3rd chain) : Expected this – https://youtu.be/7mJ3mRlE7dw?t=274

Weakening Charge: Eh, it’s alright

Dust Strike: Expected this – https://youtu.be/7mJ3mRlE7dw?t=110

Debilitating Arc: Expected the first strike of this, followed by a dodge roll – https://youtu.be/7mJ3mRlE7dw?t=138

Vault: Mostly fine, just feels a bit clunky at the end.

Only other problem I can think of is with Impaling Lotus, which has a delay before it starts. Oh, and the special dodges go less distance with quickness.

THANK YOU!! I am not the only one then!
The current staff animations are so unbelievably lame I don’t even want to use any of them with the exception of Vault. Why would they put one skill on the staff that actually looks good and the rest look like animations some random farmer could preform with a stick found on his ranch…this does not make me feel like im playing a professional martial master..just so disappointing.

I completely agree with you on the 3rd auto attack chain, that is exactly how i envisioned it actually! Instead we got an airplane propeller that we can magically swing.
I also agree with both dust strike and debilitating arc, You pretty much nailed them on the head for what I was looking for..along with an actually cool looking stance while wielding it, like the monkey king tonic as some suggested. I agree with many others in the fact that they put more detail into a kitten monkey king tonics Idle animations than an elite specialization.. like how is this even a little ok with them??

Im sorry but when i stick to a game this long and hope for something truly thought out and well defined and this is what i get for my dedication…why would i want to stick around to see the same animations i have been staring at for 3 years…Please anet do SOMETHING about this. I dont know if you thought we would not care or if you just dont care anymore.. but in a game almost completely based on aesthetics in pve..Yes we the players care very much for this sort of thing. animation are a very big part of this game to me and many others that set apart each unique profession and its capabilities.

Like everyone else has reiterated, the dodges seem clunky.

One of the biggest observations I have in regards is that sometimes you don’t dodge in the direction you are moving or at least it seemed that way a few times. I had a couple instances with Lotus Training that I would dodge forward instead of to the side. Also with Bound and Lotus Training when the animation ends you will be facing in the opposite direction if you dodge forward or backwards; not sure if this is intended. It makes getting back into position a real pain. They will face you in the direction you dodge if you dodge left or right however. I honestly never saw a need for Unhindered Combatant, maybe if I was mapping for the perma-swiftness but in spvp it seemed like the other two are much better options.

It would be nice if there was a field on the staff somewhere. I believe others have mentioned that Staff #4 being a very short duration smoke field (a much shorter Black Powder if you will). I get that the staff should be less stealth orientated but a field somewhere would be nice especially with all of the finisher in the elite spec.

I do think the damage (for staff) is actually right on par with other sets: S/D might hit harder but it feels like Staff hits harder than d/p and you have a lot more options available to you. My 1v1 survivability seems way higher than with the d/p builds that are meta right now. The almost endless ability to dodge at will is a pleasant change, and I am sure drove that warrior in my last match nuts.

The elite finisher is awesome when you pull it off but feels lack luster and it seemed like the chain was broken too easily. I might have been imaginging things but it seemed like it broke on damage instead of a CC effect. Sucks to have a 40s CD ticking because you got hit. When I pulled it off though it made me smile everytime.

Impairing daggers is a very good skill! High damage and a load of good effects, combos well with keeping your opponent next to you, meshes well with the staff abilities.

Distracting daggers seems way too short of a duration and a long prep time. 1 second while in the middle of a fight is a long time to prep a skill. It has the essence of a venom skill, something you prep going into a fight and not usually in the middle of it. 15 second is a very short time window to use the ability unless you prep it in the middle of an engagement. Maybe a 20 second window with a 40 second CD?

WvW pov

Overview: good ideas, you made an interesting spec, but it needs some improvements. e.g thief used to be a flexible fast cast class but staff is kinda stiff and slow.

First of all: graphics! These 2 lines looks like they are made in Paint. Left one is a bit skew and shorter than right line <punches devs> ;D

1. Staff

1 is good. i love the reflect on 3rd use and hope its intended

2 is strong. seriously. but only if enemy doesnt move. I can make 6k dmg with it on golems in hotm. its like spammable backstab (from behind ofc. it’s coefficient is pretty high. something between 2,35-2,39 i guess). But! This skill needs one change
please allow us to break it’s animation with dodge (even spamming Esc does nothing). it have 1/2s cast but it dont allow me to dodge for whole 1s.

• really good job btw! it attacks forward, character doesnt rotate automatically to hit target. That makes possible for this skill to have high dmg and not beeing spammable like heartseeker. thank you! easy and smart solution

3 i saw some ppl asking for more range… imo 400 is perfect and i’m 98% sure you make it 400 to allow us to do 3->2 combo

4 … this skill is just bad. too long cast for so little dmg or too long cast for not-so-good blind. my proposition: make dmg 3 times lower (or remove dmg part of this skill) and make it 1/4s or insta cast.

5 is an awesome opener but please, speed up animation (especially last part of it) and make whole animation 0,5-0,75s. i feel naked during this animation. I cant break it, i cant dodge. 1s of free dmg on me. didnt test it yet but i think it can be interrupted with melee skill (130 range, e.g. warr’s mace 3, hammer 4) Other thing: mid air immob is not fun…

2. Healing

As mentioned earlier this skill punishes us for playing spec as intended (using dodges) and also its channeling so any interrupt (its not hard to interrupt 2,25s channel skill especially with this obvious animation) what means 100% cd rather than 5s like interrupted normal cast. it’s not so safe to take this skill in wvw.

3. Utility

Fist Flurry: there is a good proposition in last post on 1st page, for now its just meh..

Impairing Daggers: is the solution for staff 5 long cast, but its initiative cost is weird. its the only utility that use inititive and thats not even mentioned in skill’s description. is it a bug? it ruins my combo ;_;

Distracting Daggers: make it unblockable, 1 use, without preparation. maybe with a bit higher cd like 30-35s. Or give it infinite dura because for now its just waste of slot.

Bandit’s Defense: i love this skill <3

4. Elite

good job, its awesome! really powerful but also its not hard to counter it. high risk, high reward (kill with bypassed downed state) The only change it need is slightly increased 2nd use range.

5. Traits

Driven Fortitude looks weak, but maybe its just my lack of skill >.<

GM’s should be baseline and Bound shouldnt root character at the end of animation not in mid-air

Edit: after few h of more testing i need to write few more thoughts

Staff sucks in wvw. It have no utility. 0 stealth, kinda useless blind (really long cast [i can blind target’s next attack, not this already coming. but if i see e.g evis i need to dodge anyway] easily dodgeable, low range and cost a lot). Ddevil should be based on evades but even sword/dagger ranger have more evades than ddevil’s staff ;_; Animations are way too long especially on #5 this skill need an evade (same as you gave it to rev sword 3) and shorter animation( because it’s really hard to hit with it on max range. even earthshaker have 3/4s cast with same range but hammer used to be slow hitting weapon). as i mentioned above i’m naked during this cast. can be cc’d can get bombed.. everything my enemy want to do and everything that evasive ddevil should allow me to avoid. There is another problem: staff dont give any mobility. if i meet a lb ranger staff give me nothing to kill him. (reflect on #1 is good idea but as long as i have to hit with whole chain to proc it its useless because projectiles are fired from range, my reflect needs melee and staff in any way doesnt allow me to stay close to my target.

Actually i wouldn´t give a smoke field to staff.

I would love to see a dark field ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_field)
on Dust Strike ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dust_Strike).

It would increase the close combat survivability. You can combo it with leap or blast finishers to apply blinds or use whirl or projectile finishers for life leech.

That would be a step in the right direction to give the weapon set more staying power and differentiate it from other weapon sets.

Best regards!

Shino

I’m a returning playing, but Thief has been my main since release. I prefer playing at range, so I’ve nearly always been P/P + SB. After the last balance patch that changed how traits work, two specific changes very negatively affected my spec. Those being Ricochet and Feline Grace. As this is a thread about Daredevil, I’ll try and not go into too much about these traits. However, having the Daredevil tree impacts all specs and playstyles of the Thief, which is perhaps the dev’s intention.

Daredevil Extra Endurance
Having an extra endurance bar so that you can dodge up to three times without waiting for the endurance to recharge helps a lot to bring the Thief back to feeling like a very mobile and evasive profession. However, because of the nerf to Feline Grace, from my perspective it makes the Daredevil tree mandatory and Acrobatics obsolete. I still think the devs need to consider bringing the old Feline Grace back as it’s far too punishing to have to successfully dodge an attack to gain the benefits of the trait.

Impacting Disruption
Traits like this and Pressure Striking I think are great additions to P/P gameplay. They give so much more benefit to using Head Shot and make less mandatory to spam Unload all the time.

Bounding Dodger
Finally, with this trait P/P has access to stealth! Not only does this open up P/P to a lot of traits that would previously provide little benefit, but it makes playing the spec so much more fun! Now Black Powder doesn’t seem like a skill only useful for melee specs. P/P can take advantage of the blind for any mob that gets too close, and then reposition and Sneak Attack.

Summary
As I prefer a range playstyle, I was disappointed that Thieves didn’t get Rifle and some means of having 1200 range. As it is, Ricochet is still a very missed trait giving us P/P players 1050 range and the chance to bounce attacks. It added tons of fun and the removal of it has weakened an already weakly regarded spec. Again, I know this is about Daredevil, but I really wish the devs would find a way to add this trait back into the game.

I think the extra endurance that comes with Daredevil is great, but it’s a band-aid to make up for the Acrobatics tree being so worthless now with the nerf to Feline Grace.

As I mentioned the new dodges and other traits make it so playing a P/P spec is less 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 etc all the time. Very good thing!

Oh, and Staff
I haven’t spent significant time with the Staff, but my overall opinion is it doesn’t feel amazing. Perhaps not the most useful or detailed feedback, sorry. It feels like it is lacking weight and substance, perhaps that is down to sound effects and animations. Also, I kinda expected it to have a better cleave feel, so that when surrounded by mobs I’d be unleashing some tornado of bark and bumps!

Here’s my feedback after some extensive play with the Daredevil. I am quite happy with it, but there are some things that could use a tweak or two.

The Staff

I found the staff to be a very nice weapon with a decent amount of damage in comparison to the survivability you get as a Daredevil, although there are some skills that are very rarely used.

Auto-attack: Aside from the animations feeling extremely clunky, the damage and speed is pretty decent.

Skill #2: This skill is great, it requires a low amount of initiative, it has relatively high damage (this is our best source of consistent damage) and it moves us through the player, making it hard for enemies to stay onto us and just adds to our mobility.

Skill #3: This skill is very rarely used and is extremely situational.

Skill #4: This skill is also very rarely used and is extremely situational.

Skill #5: Great for chasing down an opponent or hitting a large group of people on a point, very high damage.

Stealth: Haven’t had much of a chance to use this skill but on the opportunities that I do it’s quite nice to have a knockdown.

The Utilities

The only physical skills I found myself using we’re the heal and the block.

Channeled Vigor: This skill is incredible, it’s great for re-filling our endurance and provides a large amount of healing.

Bandit’s Defense: This skill is just incredible, a block + knockdown on a 10 second cooldown (8 seconds when traited).

I found the rest of the physical skills to be a bit too underwhelming and difficult to pull of mid combat.

Distracting Daggers: This skill feels slow and clunky with a cast time and a 1 second cooldown on each dagger being thrown.

Fist Flurry: I found this skill just not worth taking over one of my other utilities, it didn’t do a whole lot in comparison to Shadow Step, Infiltrator’s Signet or Bandit’s Defense, plus it’s difficult to land and Palm Strike just isn’t worth it.

Impairing Daggers: Once again a skill that just wasn’t worth taking, maybe if I was running condi it’d have a place.

Impact Strike: I simply found this skill way to difficult to land, most of the time if an enemy was running away from me the skill would miss.

The Dodges

The only dodge I found myself using was Unhindered Combatant, the other two just didn’t appeal to me.

Unhindered Combatant: It’s great for escapes and moving around really fast.

Lotus Training: If I was running condi I would consider taking this.

Bounding Dodger: Can’t really see myself taking this over Unhindered Combatant.

Recommendations

• Make the staff skills #3 and #4 a bit more useful, possibly replace #4 with a AoE blind similar to Black Powder.

• Unhindered Combatant’s animation literally has the thief pretending to hold a greatsword, please change!

• Fix up the clunky animations on the staff (especially the auto-attack).

Final Words

The Daredevil brings to the table something I have not seen in this game and I am having a lot of fun with it! Thank you!

For Staff:

- the staff feels very weak compared to sword, dagger or longbow.

- dmg seems ok but you have simply no defense with this weapon

- maybe give Skill #1 and evade on the last chain?!

- would like to see skill 4 getting a short duration smoke screen, that block projectiles and is a combo field, so you can stealth yourself at least one time.

- skill #5 and the dodge ability is to obvious and can be dodged to easy. It’s not worse it for the initiative

For staff :

- skill #3 :
I think it would be very interesting if instead of dodging backward, we dodge forward (without auto-turnaround). It would provide interesting positioning, and would fit with the daredevil theme (dodging toward the danger. Hopping over an ennemy to land right in the center of a zerg, etc… )

Levis.6137:

- would like to see skill 4 getting a short duration smoke screen, that block projectiles and is a combo field, so you can stealth yourself at least one time.

I had a similar thought after playtesting; including its current functionality, staff 4 also drops a 2s smoke field that can be quickly combo leaped through for a short stealth. I’m still on the fence as to whether it should be a smoke screen or a simple smoke field though.

Overall, much of what I had issues with has already been mentioned, but just to add my 2 cents:

- Some staff animations need to be unique and not reused animations that exist elsewhere in the game.

- GM dodges and staff animations need more fluidity.

- Elite uses the character’s selected finisher when stomping.

- Baseline: pistol 1 should peirce ( ° 3 °)

- Questionable change: add a leap finisher to the unhindered combatant dodge, and maybe make bounding dodger act as a blast finisher.

I have to agree the staff has a few kinks. #2 leaves you facing away from your target after you pass through them. The Distracting Daggers should run like the mantra’s there till used not poof cause you didn’t use them They should be more along the lines a prepared for combat type of thing. The blocking skill seems to be a hit or miss type thing so if your lagging or don’t have the best computer then I wouldn’t use it it blocks when it goes off on time. But timing is everything. Toggles for the dodges would be great cause that is what really sells the point is the dodges. though they may need a little work. Though If was me i’d have to say I’d put poison and immobilize on my lotus training daggers. And I’d try my best to strike up enough dust on impact that it blinds those around when i land with bounding dodger.

VERY IMPORTANT AND RELATED SECONDARY THREADS:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Daredevil-bug-reporting/first#post5462490
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Daredevil-animation-feedback-propostion

Staff

Skillbar:

1. Increase damage by 18% first rotation, 16% second rotation, 28% third rotation and reduce its cast time from 1 second to 3/4. In stealth 111% damage increase and its 3/4 cast time must be reduced to 1/2.

2. Increase damage by 33% and remove the root in the end of that animation. Clunky

3. Increase damage by 18%.

4. Increase dmg by 43% , use the same mechanic , add a smoke field that stays 4 seconds and increase the initiative to 5. Cast time must be 1/2.

5. Increase damage by 6% , reduce initiative from 6 to 5. Remove the root on the end of that animation. Clunky

6. Channeled Vigor = Reduce the cast time from 2 1/4 to 1 1/2.

7. Fist Flurry = Remove the kitten condition, rest is totally fine. (We are not in the Movie Kill Bill)

8. Impairing Daggers = Make them projectile finishers.

9. Distracting Daggers = Make them projectile finishers. Reduce cast time to 1/4 second from 1 second to equip, Remove the cooldown completely and let it go back to its original recast time again when all daggers are casted. Also Remove the cooldown from the equiped daggers, so we can interupt our next target immediatly also.

10. Bandit´s Defence= Ok

11. Impact Strike = Ok

Specialization

Enforcer Training = Ok

Evasive Empowerment = Ok
Weakening Strikes = Ok
Brawler´s Tenacity= Ok

Driven Fortitude = Remove the cooldown completely, i want to be rewarded for useing my dodge. Also helps the surviveability ALOT and we desperatly need that.

Staff Master= Ok
Escapist´s Absolution= Remove the cooldown.
Pulmonary Impact= Ok

Endurance Thief= It restores just 25 Endurance instead of 50. (Bug)

Impaling Lotus= Make the daggers Projectile finishers and remove the root of the end of that animation. Clunky
Dash= Remove the cast time and the root of the end of that animation. Clunky
Bound= Damage Ok, remove the cast time and the root of the end of that animation. Clunky

my experience so far to Mr. Mclain (You can go to the bottom to get the main point. you must be busy

The Staff:

I was really excited for the thief, but the moment i started using the staff I just couldn’t help but notice how odd it was to use.

Mr. Mclain, what is the purpose of this weapon? It’s neither a utility like the SB nor is a heavy damage weapon like the Sword, yet it has abilities like « Debilitating Arc » and Dust Strike on one hand and « Vault » on the other. Mixed signals everywhere.
I really want to know: what is the weapon’s true role?

Staff AA is a little weak, but until we get a clear statement from the dev, it’s hard to see the vision behind the numbers.

Staff #2 should behave like Heartseeker, meaning you press #2 and it aims straight for your target. Somehow, Weakening charge does not aim for the target, It has a directional system to it. making it quite painful. IT goes throught the target (I have no problems with that), but it you keep #2, you end up charging away from your target. No really efficient.

Staff #3 better animation for Debilitating Arc, in terms of visibility. When I press #3, I don’t even realize I used it. That’s how invisible and light the animations are.

Staff #4 an increased casting speed is greatly needed. the animation slow enough to get me killed or sniped.

Staff #5 I am not sure the range satisfies me. but really must be put is the ability to evade with Vault, the animation is really long.

Imparing Daggers

Sometimes I shoot, i get three poisons, other times i get all three conditions, other times i only get imos… (The targets never dodged.) Is there an order set into the skill?

Impact Strike

Please tell us in the tooltip how much time we have before the whole skill resets. Are we supposed to use everything immediately? I use impact strike, I would like to leave it for a few seconds to mix up my combos. It is therefore crucial to know how much time i have left in order to perform everything. Or we just supposed to use back to back.

Bandit’s Defense

Great. Maybe a little too great? I find it amazing, but don’t change it lol.

Synergy with other traits
Aside from Trickery, there is really very little synergy between DD line and other traits.

I tried with Acro… I find it the most promising trait, and there could be great synergy there, but this line is too weak and feels like a waste of space.
I do recuperate pretty well on with Vigorous Recovery, the rest however is just too bad. Acro seriously needs some work and it will be a great addition.

The Dodges

Dodging is very clunky, and it is not because we are not use to the new dodging skill yet.

Bound- The period right after the dodge leaves the Thief static, and gets me killed most of the time.

A smoother transition must be found

I think Bound should be less jumpy. The jump effect should be reduced and subtle, making it a faster animation and a little closer to the typical evade.

Imparing Lotus – Is the best out of the three, I think the range is well thought out even though same may say it’s a little too big.

Dash – VERY clunky and easy to read.

Traits

The traits are good and the competition between the grandmaster Tier fits perfectly. However, I put in question the placement of the traits in the rest of the line.

Weakening Strike is amazing … a little TOO amazing and I wish you would do the same with Sundering Strike, in the Critical Strikes line in terms of cooldowns. or Vice versa.
Staff Master? Should it be an adept?
Driven fortitude, a smaller buff.
Escapist Absolution ? A minor instead of heal on evade?

So first day I did PvE and the last days I did PvP and WvW.

Overall, this line is a great addition to thief, but Mr. Mclain, the synergy with the other traits are average to say the best.

CONCLUSION
.Staff animation needs a rework.. it’s not a hammer.
. Staff Skill #2 #5 should behave like hearseeker and be granted evasion respectively.
. Most dodges are rugged.
. Staff Damage … You tell us boss.
. Syngery is Core traits inexistant except Trickery. very little with CS.

. THANK YOU FOR THIS LINE. I might main this Elite spec line once it comes out.

Edit: Impacting Disruption is underwhelming. I am surprised I have to say this, but the damage is too low.

I personally think that aside from everyone elses repeated feedbacks on how clunky something is, is instead of actually having Dust strike send a line, forcing us out of combat to instead have our daredevil sweep in a circle, deal an aoe cleave damage, and in the process leave a smoke field AND have it send out bolts, like a whirl finisher…but these bolts penetrate like the current…well not penetrate but they have 3 impacts like the current dust strike…

those paint skills

so what im getting it is, itll function similar to black powder skill 5 on d/p for thief…

projectile finisher AND smoke field, but instead itll be a whirl due to the spin. now it doesnt have to have the multi impact (x3) like it does now in all directions but if it just sent bolts AND made the field(field comes first) then it would not only keep us IN the fight, but also support our allies while we are STILL in the brawl, also a nice touch for skill 5 vault, which will give us more openers to Hook Strike…sorry for the crude paint skills, but ignore the RED line on the left, was supposed to be black to indicate direction of the 3 impacts PER line. the smoke field you understand.

So lets finally resume:
- plz implent to steal and skill from Revenant, didnt get one …
- make dodges act like dodges, not like skills- that was the reason why getting confusion dmg by using dodges
- dodges need to be fluid with quickness, nomral walk, run
- utilities were fine ^^ and the elite is very nice, the heal is rly good using with adventure runes XD

Staffskills:
-1#: autoattack should be faster, the first 2strikes should feel like hard smashes
- hook strike feels great
-#2: no casttime plz, this should work like burning speed and a greater range, maybe with evade frame
-#3: same here; greater range of backflip, i want to get away with it ….
-4#: is ok, maybe the angle of the cone a bit larger
-5’#: reduce initative to 5 plz like you told in point of interest, increase range to 1200 and add evade frame

that should make staff to feel like a REAL Daredevil who works with evade
PLz buff DD, we also want to play with nice artistic fighters who dont rely on stealth
anyway ty for reading

So, I’ve played the Daredevil for most of the BWE, doing some Stronghold and Verdant Brink. For the most part I really like it, but there are some things I would like to give my feedback on. The traits, all utility skills and the elite skill are great, and I personally do not think they need to change. However, in my opinion the heal skill and the staff need some improvements. So without further ado, here is my feedback:

Traits

As already mentioned by others, the dodge replacers feel delayed/clunky, however, I know Karl is already aware of and looking at that. The feel of the dodging aside, I think the traits are functionally good, with each replacer being useful for different builds. However, I think that Bounding Dodger and Lotus Training will be used in more situations than Dash, as the only real beneift of Dash is the mobility, which the thief can easily get elsewhere if needed. If a player wants to make a super mobile build, then Dash will be very useful, other than that I think most will choose the other two dodges.

Skills

All the utility skills seem to be in a good place to me. Fist Flurry was tricky to get all strikes to hit at times, but I see this skill as a high risk high reward kind of thing, so I am ok with how it is.

The elite skill is awesome, and if you time it right can be very effective at rapidly downing opponents or can be used as an effective control skill mid fight. This skill is one of my favourites, along with Bandit’s Defense.

The heal skill is where the first issue is for me. While it is very good at regaining endurance, I feel it is far too easily interrupted with an undefended cast time that is way too long. For an elite spec that it is all about getting in and staying in the thick of a fight, that 2.25 second cast time feels like an eternity. It doesn’t feel very agile and makes you feel more vulnerable than anything else and breaks your offensive flow too much.

Staff

The staff is where I have the second issue. From what I gather, the Daredevil is supposed to get into fights and stay there. They have high evasive and good control (hense skills like Fist Flurry, Distracting Daggers and the elite). However, the staff only offers one evade (that moves you out of the fight) and no control skills.

I feel that the staff should offer you tools to keep you in the fight and control your enemies. Therefore I have the following two skill change suggestions:

Debilitating Arc = Remove the evade and replace it with a half second stun/daze/knock up effect. Keep the cripple and immobilize removal, but increase the initiative cost to 5.

Vault = Add an evade during the leap but reduce the damage by an appropriate amount.

I really think the staff needs at least one control skill and the evade needs to keep/get you in the fight, rather than take you out of it (which we already have on the shortbow).

Wel, that’s my view of the Daredevil. For the most part I think it is in a really good place, but the heal skill and staff needs some improvement. I’m really looking forward to the next BWE to see what changes are made.

Staff:

Autoattack: Seems fine.
Charge: Why would i use that?
Arc: A delayed dodge and useless.
Dust: Too slow and expensive for the effect.
Vault: Has its nieche and is good.

Sword/pistol seems to be better in most situations.
Staff could have a role, if it would hit 5 targets. That is something thieves still lack.

Physicals:

The block is nice. Flurry is ok but not much better than normal attacks. I would have to use impact some more to judge it. The rest seems useless.

Traits:

The dodges are clunky, I guess that will be adressed. It’s hard to use them inside a refuge.
The rest is ok so far

I really like the concept of the specialization and the ideas behind it but they seem unfinished. So far I’d only use it to offset the acrobatics nerf.

No dodges underwater

Pukc.6328:

No dodges underwater

Oh yeah true that… soooo.. the all the traits are useless underwater… well Karl, how do you compensate that ? How will you respond to this .. INCREDIBLE misstake??

As a P/P thief, I enjoyed the overall play of the spec, but it still feels that it needs work. I play P/P Staff and felt that the two weapon sets worked well together, actually making me want to switch between the weapon sets. I do agree that the dodges and some of the staff skills feel clunky and unrefined, but I’m (mostly) confidant that that will be fixed before release. I wasn’t a big fan of the physical skills, although I did keep blocking stun breaker skill. The Elite skill seemed really lackluster, and didn’t seem very useful in PVE. However the biggest problem that I had with the spec was that dodging and Staff skill 3 didn’t seem to be dodging as I would have naturally expected based on playing over the past three years, which can be both painful and fatal. Thanks for the continual effort and I hope you take our feedback to heart {with a grain of salt}!
TLDR, the spec allows me to come back to the Thief, almost making up for the removal of Ricochet… almost! A little attention to mobility detail and the DD might be as good as it can be.

So, might not mean much, but thanks guys for testing the DD out… :P I got a bit excited about the elite spec reveal, was about to punch in my credit card number, and then thought, why don’t I wait till the BWE is over and see the feedback, to find out if DD is as good as it looked.

:D Well, got my credit card tucked away till the end of the next BWE or the one after (if there will be) to see if they actually listen the to feedback and do something about it.

Cheers guys

After watching magic toker play. I decided to buy the xpack. Yes there are allot of fixing and tweaking to do but i believe the result will be good.
Unfortunately we will end up with 2 “mandatory” tratelines… for every weapon set and play style, trickery and dd leving us with one trateline to rotate…

Anyway, since I’m moving to uk to work there i will only be buying it in December or January. Until then i hope thieves will be in a better place.