Guild Wars 2

Looking at you the balancing team, don’t you dare touch that ability.
You nerfed Pistol Whip and Heartseeker, I get it people whine about it but this is what you get with stealthy arche type classes they do alot of damage when they come out of stealth.

Thieves have been nerfed each patch because of excessive whining, if you get owned by certain builds then by all means learn the darn class that you’re having trouble with.

If you’re going to reduce our skills their effectiveness then maybe you should give us more skills to work with, kitten is up with Sword and Dagger huh? There isn’t a single trait that’s Sword exclusive (Such kitten more damage with a Sword).

Nerfed Basilisk Venom, an unbreakable 1 sec stun to a 1.5 sec breakable, so how about the Moa? 10 Sec? Of running around as a floppy bird with no skills? Have you even considered that? No because people got steamrolled by Thieves with low health low armor and high power just like the build is supposed to be. They kill and die quick.

To all people that say Backstab is OP nerf it to the ground! Go to sleep and bring a stunbreaker to PvP because this aint Queensdale no more!

The only reason thieves make topics like this is because they kitten well know they are OP and they are afraid they cant play there 2 / 3 button roflcopter class anymore after the nerfs are done.

Darkeh.4539:

The only reason thieves make topics like this is because they kitten well know they are OP and they are afraid they cant play there 2 / 3 button roflcopter class anymore after the nerfs are done.

Pro scene laughs at you.

GZ.

They will nerf Backstab and then when there isnt any other build for a thief to use people will start whinning about conditional dmg thiefs and they will nerf that too… Just because people hate thiefs doesnt mean we should be geting hit by the nerf baseball bat (not stick) all the freaking time!

It’s kind of sad. People can’t counter thieves and think they’re OP because they counter their glass cannon playstyle. Now we have to suffer for it.

It was always like that, and it probably always will be.

People are lazy and dumb. They don’t want to get better, and they don’t want to put effort into discovering/learning counters.

Everything they can’t handle on first sight should be nerfed into uselessness, so they don’t have any problems anymore without any effort done.

The only thing we can hope for, is that ANet knows it better, and that they don’t want to dumb down the game.

High skill (risk), high reward classes are always hated, since you actually need skill to beat them, instead of a easy rock-paper-scissors priciple aka. “I’m that class, so i can beat this, but have to avoid that” etc.

To beat a skilled Thief (and any Assassin type class/character in any game really), you need to be skilled too, just that most people aren’t.

Darkeh.4539:

The only reason thieves make topics like this is because they kitten well know they are OP and they are afraid they cant play there 2 / 3 button roflcopter class anymore after the nerfs are done.

Or maybe it’s because we’re sick and tired of being hit by nerfs that don’t even make sense? Any Thief worth his salt will admit straight up that Pistol Whip was (and to an extent, still is) OP when combined with Haste (our Quickness ability), but without it, it was a mediocre skill in PvP and an excellent skill in PvE.

After the recent 15% damage nerf, it’s even worse in PvP without quickness and mediocre in PvE. In fact, it actually does less damage than the auto-attack chain! Despite the fact that the skill itself was fine without Haste, Anet still hit it with the nerf bat, rather than addressing the game wide issue of Quickness abilities.

Also, I know that I’m wasting my time here because you’re obviously either 8 years old or a troll, but have you ever actually rolled a Thief and played it for more than five minutes? Anyone who thinks that any aspect of the class is just a 2 or 3 button wonder is an absolute moron.

Tl;dr – You’re an idiot. Either learn to play, roll a Thief and learn the class before commenting, or kitten off.

So the “stealth” class in an RPG is OP? … To quote Iago: “Oh, there’s a big surprise! That’s an incredible… I think I’m gonna have a heart attack and die from that surprise!”

They always start OP and I’ve about had it with the children that play them crying about nerfs. They’re going to happen. Its just like every FPS game and the grenade launcher. Starts out OP, gets nerfed, noobs cry, real gamers move on.

Anyone worth their salt can PvP with thieves very well without using Heartseeker, Pistol Whip+Haste, or Backstab. I’ve had many long, drawn out fights with thieves that used absolutely none of those skills and most of the time they still win because of the stealth mechanic.

Incurafy.6329:

Or maybe it’s because we’re sick and tired of being hit by nerfs that don’t even make sense? Any Thief worth his salt will admit straight up that Pistol Whip was (and to an extent, still is) OP when combined with Haste (our Quickness ability), but without it, it was a mediocre skill in PvP and an excellent skill in PvE.

So basically you’re upset about needless nerfs, but you explain how PW just got a needed nerf?

As I’ve said before, quickness is a problem. When and if they address it, they’re going to hit multiple classes, multiple builds, traits, and weaponry. They’ve got a lot to consider when changing quickness as opposed to changing one particular skill while using quickness.

Incurafy.6329:

Also, I know that I’m wasting my time here because you’re obviously either 8 years old or a troll, but have you ever actually rolled a Thief and played it for more than five minutes? Anyone who thinks that any aspect of the class is just a 2 or 3 button wonder is an absolute moron.

A moron is someone who thinks that thieves weren’t pressing ‘22222222’ to win until the Heartseeker nerf, and then weren’t popping Haste and pressing ‘33333333’ to win until the PW nerf. That was the whole reason for those nerfs. The thief was a button mash hero.

So when thieves are popping sin sig in stealth, hitting 1, and winning, seeing as how that’s a “3-button-wonder”, I would assume one of those buttons is getting a nerf.

Probably not backstab, probably sin sig.

Just saying, better to be prepared than to be wasting your time crying about it on the forums when it happens.

Redscope.6215:

So the “stealth” class in an RPG is OP? … To quote Iago: “Oh, there’s a big surprise! That’s an incredible… I think I’m gonna have a heart attack and die from that surprise!”

They always start OP and I’ve about had it with the children that play them crying about nerfs. They’re going to happen. Its just like every FPS game and the grenade launcher. Starts out OP, gets nerfed, noobs cry, real gamers move on.

Anyone worth their salt can PvP with thieves very well without using Heartseeker, Pistol Whip+Haste, or Backstab. I’ve had many long, drawn out fights with thieves that used absolutely none of those skills and most of the time they still win because of the stealth mechanic.

Incurafy.6329:

Or maybe it’s because we’re sick and tired of being hit by nerfs that don’t even make sense? Any Thief worth his salt will admit straight up that Pistol Whip was (and to an extent, still is) OP when combined with Haste (our Quickness ability), but without it, it was a mediocre skill in PvP and an excellent skill in PvE.

So basically you’re upset about needless nerfs, but you explain how PW just got a needed nerf?

As I’ve said before, quickness is a problem. When and if they address it, they’re going to hit multiple classes, multiple builds, traits, and weaponry. They’ve got a lot to consider when changing quickness as opposed to changing one particular skill while using quickness.

Incurafy.6329:

Also, I know that I’m wasting my time here because you’re obviously either 8 years old or a troll, but have you ever actually rolled a Thief and played it for more than five minutes? Anyone who thinks that any aspect of the class is just a 2 or 3 button wonder is an absolute moron.

A moron is someone who thinks that thieves weren’t pressing ‘22222222’ to win until the Heartseeker nerf, and then weren’t popping Haste and pressing ‘33333333’ to win until the PW nerf. That was the whole reason for those nerfs. The thief was a button mash hero.

So when thieves are popping sin sig in stealth, hitting 1, and winning, seeing as how that’s a “3-button-wonder”, I would assume one of those buttons is getting a nerf.

Probably not backstab, probably sin sig.

Just saying, better to be prepared than to be wasting your time crying about it on the forums when it happens.

You Sir hit the nail on the head. No class should be able to profit from spamming just one or two abilities, whether it’s a thief or not. I came across a thief last night that was impossible to pin down, I think he was a Pistol/Dagger condition build becuase his bleeds were hitting my ele for 100+ a tick. He played his class extremeley well and I have no problem losing to him, he was a far better player than myself.

But if somone pops up and pulls a cheese manouver on me with one/two abilities (Backstab is one of these) and takes of more than 1/4 – 1/2 of my health bar, yeah I’m gonna say something about that. PW + Haste was a perfect example of something being changed because it was nowhere near balanced.

I highly expect being completely immune to damage whilst being in stealth might be getting looked at, especially stomping whilst in stealth, it has no counter and needs to be changed.

Loco.4561:

But if somone pops up and pulls a cheese manouver on me with one/two abilities (Backstab is one of these) and takes of more than 1/4 – 1/2 of my health bar, yeah I’m gonna say something about that. PW + Haste was a perfect example of something being changed because it was nowhere near balanced.

I highly expect being completely immune to damage whilst being in stealth might be getting looked at, especially stomping whilst in stealth, it has no counter and needs to be changed.

It’s impressive how you don’t understand a single machanic the Thief has.

First of, immunity to damage (or anything) while in stealth isn’t a thing. It just isn’t.

Also you talk about that huge backstabs like a Thief has nothing to do for it, has no trade offs, nothing.
That a Backstab Thief puts every Trait he has into supporting that single strike, every stat into dmg etc. doesn’t even matter right?

A build with ABSOLUTELY no thoughness, no Health at all, no defensive Utilities, no consitent condition removal, nothing, is actually doing dmg? How silly is that!?

It’s just what i said, you don’t even WANT to know the weaknesses of this builds, because it would show you counters, and therefor telling you how bad you are for not using them.

You only talk about the strong parts/situations of the build, complaining that it’s to strong.
How about doing some research on how to beat that type of Thief instead?
What can’t he do? In which situations is he weak? What abilities are essential for him, and can i juke them into CD/make him waste his global CD aka. Initiative?
How do Thieves behave in stealth, to still hit them/avoid being backstabbed?

The list is endless, and i never heard a pro player complaining about Thieves, since they know a) how to counter them, and b) that when they haven’t had a chance, that the Thief made a huge commitment (and therefore paid a huge tradeoff) to be super effective at that specific situation (which leads to avoiding said situation in the future).

TL:DR: You suck, get better (i recommend reading the post though)

How does bringing a stun breaker stop a backstab thief? Going to get out of that Kidney Shot? Oh crap…wrong game.

Backstab is OP because it doesn’t follow the rules of the game.
Other classes have cooldowns on their abilities. If they use a weapon skill while blinded, then that weapon skill goes on cooldown. If they use weapon skill and it is blocked, that skill goes on cooldown.

Thieves have initiative. If you heartseeker and miss, you waste initiative. If you C&D and miss, you waste initiative. If you use an ability and it’s blocked, you waste initiative.
Backstab doesn’t cost initiative (and rightly so) but it should still follow the rules.

So the change is simple. Either add a 2 second cooldown to backstab or make it so when backstab is used, it breaks stealth.

No more sitting stealth spamming backstab into blinds/blocks.

There. Balanced.

^

Thieves have initiative. If you heartseeker and miss, you waste initiative. If you C&D and miss, you waste initiative. If you use an ability and it’s blocked, you waste initiative.
Backstab doesn’t cost initiative (and rightly so) but it should still follow the rules.
So the change is simple. Either add a 2 second cooldown to backstab or make it so when backstab is used, it breaks stealth.
No more sitting stealth spamming backstab into blinds/blocks.
There. Balanced.

Backstab follows the rules, when you strike someone with Backstab you break Stealth and then gives you the ’’Revealed’’ debuff which prevents stealthing again for a few seconds.

So it already has a cool down and if you are blinded and miss with Backstab your Basilisk Venom goes to waste, because it used up a charge.

Also you can break Basilisk Venom stun with a stunbreaker, please read patch notes or play the Thief before posting.

Dear OP, and all thieves. I don’t play a thief personally. Killed a lot of them. Got killed by a really good one. Killed him back. Faced the mystical one shot kill back stab uber thief. Died the first time… survived round two because i know how to pay attention to whats happening when i am facing someone.. especially someone who just roflstomped me. I cant think of anything worse to happen to a good game then nerfs without also improving at the same time. Except for nerfs based on community whining. People as a mass are too lazy to train to be a tactical player. They want the thrill of the kill but they want it handed to them.

Most wont go out and learn the finesse of their class and trust me every class can kill every class (except maybe necros, poor schmucks) but people general want the easy way to win. So when the mass stop getting that they start crying. Look at all the post launch posts of people asking “whats most op pvp class” they are limitless.. that’s why warrior was so popular so fast. They aren’t looking for a game about learning your strengths and exploiting that. They are looking for instant gratification. And the moment they ont get that. And have to fight to win or be quick and react fast.. well better remove everything that is making them have to try harder or else!!! I picked my class during one of the closed betas. Not because it was op. But because it took a kitten pile of management to survive at the time. I had to dodge i had to pay attention to everything around me and use my skills as wisely as possible so i say good im glad thieves figured out smart builds that make them viable and dangerous. It is fun to fight to win.. and i know someone will say"but QQ i cant react that fast whaaaaaaaa" well i can and do you have to know what your fighting and don’t react.. preempt. Thats how pvp works. My main got nerfed to hell and back but i don’t care. I still pvp i still win. I adapt. So while i hope the nerfs stop and thieves get left alone. And they focus on bugged skills for everyone. It wont happen. All i can say is cheers and good luck
Also if ya wanna find me in game and try and get a 1v1 room

Look me up ill be on “Copy Paste”

P.s. typed this on a droid phone.. was hard to do ignore typos!

@bettandu

This isn’t about when backstab hits a target. This is about when backstab fails to hit.

If you heartseeker a target while blinded/shielded/invulnerable, you still waste initiative.

You can sit in stealth spamming backstab into blind/shields/invulnerables and it won’t break stealth. Not until you actually hit a target.

No other ability in the game has that advantage. Not even auto attacks. You don’t go to the next chain of AA when attacking while blinded/shielded/invulnerable.

It makes backstab too easy to play. If someone blocks your backstab from stealth, that should be it. You don’t deserve a second/third/fourth/fifth chance.

Anet wont nerf because people cry, they wont touch backstab. If they nerf it its because they nerfed damage across the board for all classes. Backstab is fine, people just suck. I ran into a few eles that had as much burst as my thief and more survivability, I had to work hard as hell to kill him. His dragons tooth did 9k to me, so yea dont tell me backstab is op when any class is capable of doing the same damage, except rangers…sorry again rangers.

I think if we had duels or other forms of PvP people would have a different perspective on Thieves and class balance in general.

Not really, Dee Jay. The people crying for nerfs just don’t know how to deal with a thief and would lose 1v1 battles every time. The people who actually play sPvP efficiently and know how to kill a thief would win every single time because the battle would start with them knowing exactly where we are. The glass cannons who are thief bait would be a total mismatch.

A thief can’t beat an actually skilled warrior 1v1 if the battle begins with them staring straight at the thief. Skilled warriors (and guardians), back me up here?

This is a fight I would probably run from (or re-position myself before engaging) in sPvP. This game honestly shouldn’t be balanced for 1v1. Certain classes should have an advantage over other classes. That’s why there is no sparring in the first place.

As a thief, I have two problems with backstab:

1) It does too much damage for a skill that is so easily applied. I don’t like it when my class has game balance affecting skills like this because I like to earn my victories.

2) As an OP skill it has become the centre piece for the lame defacto build of lazy thieves everywhere.

Nerfing BS would make us play better and be more creative with our builds. Both good things.

I play a thief as a main, I like most of thieves builds and don´t think they are op anyway – we have, for example, mesmers with insane moa and other skills. But IMHO a stealth build giving 10k+ backstab following from a 7k+ heartseeker are a bit too strong… I know it uses signets and traits and buffs but still too much damage for such a secure hit from the back and run stealth build… yet i´m not asking for a nerf.

Rather than making a post of “don’t you dare” why don’t you make a post of “Anet, what do you think of backstab? will there be changes?”

This is just a complaint thread without your problem ever existing.
Its like a hungry family arguing over imaginary bread.

This thread is stupid.

Cribbage.2056:

As a thief, I have two problems with backstab:

1) It does too much damage for a skill that is so easily applied. I don’t like it when my class has game balance affecting skills like this because I like to earn my victories.

2) As an OP skill it has become the centre piece for the lame defacto build of lazy thieves everywhere.

Nerfing BS would make us play better and be more creative with our builds. Both good things.

lets see

easy to apply?

it is the ONLY thief skill in the game that has a requirement to use it, then a requirement for it to do good damage. stealth and being behind target respectively.

you wanna make it harder to apply remove the ability to precast then steal, tho this wont make any difference to the players that stand there and let me hit them in the back.

im not against making a failed backstab break steatlh tho

Sorry, but counting the number of constraints on its use doesn’t really change anything does it? It is easy to apply. None of us has much trouble applying it.

Once you are in stealth with basilisk venom applied you just position and go for it. If you miss you can even take another swipe. Sometimes the vagueries of the fight will mean your target is no longer in the right position, but even then it does pretty decent damage.

Sorry, but counting the number of constraints on its use doesn’t really change anything does it? It is easy to apply. None of us has much trouble applying it.

Once you are in stealth with basilisk venom applied you just position and go for it. If you miss you can even take another swipe. Sometimes the vagueries of the fight will mean your target is no longer in the right position, but even then it does pretty decent damage.

sorry i dont use basilisk, and i agree id be ok with a failed backstab unstealthing us. but it doesnt change the fact that compared to any other skill in the game, its harder to land, regardless of it being easy.

and you know what, outside of the cheese that is precast CnD>steal>backstab, BS is entirely avoidable. Ive played against actually good players who dont stand there adn let you stab them in the back, they move.

but i agree its easy to land on people who dont try to avoid it at all, even when they see me go into stealth.

Yeah I agree, it seems every build I try, then I practice it. Then it gets nerfed. I spend all this time learning to play my class. and then it is immediately nerfed because people in Random BGS dies often.

The theif is very applicable in 1v1 scenarios. Which if done right, can be applied to group well. But only with the right amount of skill.

lose in a 1v1. Whine. nerf. The fall of the mmo

Just for those who don’t think these Thief skills have a place in the game, let’s compare:

Warrior:
Skill: Hundred Blades
Cooldown: 8 seconds
Requirement: None
Multiple Targets Hit: Yes
I will note that it does root you and can only hit frontal targets.

Thief:
Skill: Backstab
Cooldown: Lowest possible cooldown 5 seconds, scaled almost to 10-12 seconds if your target has a shield, is using a shield skill, is using a damage negating skill, or knows how to dodge to make you miss Cloak and Dagger skill wasting Initiative
Requirement: Must be in Stealth, i.e. using 30 second heal cooldown, 60 second cooldown Blinding Powder utility, Shadow Refuge 60 second cooldown utility, or 6 initiative (50% of available initiative to most) Cloak and Dagger skill, must be behind enemy to maximize effectiveness, requires 30 points in a single Trait line to maximize effectiveness. Stealth also reduces movement speed significantly, allowing some enemy targets to simply outrun you.
Multiple Targets Hit: No

Yea! God forbid thieves having to press more than 2 buttons to win!

Unless something is done about backstab, consider this: when a thief stealths, other players should be instantly teleported to the thief player behind the computer to hit him in the face before he kills you in 0.02 seconds.

I really, truly, don’t understand the hate against backstab thieves. There are a few things that probably should be tweaked, like assassin’s signet, but backstab thieves make a lot of sacrifices to get that one big hit, and if you know what to look for, you can make them pay. I personally main a necro, and I don’t think I have lost to a backstab thief since I took the time to learn what to look for unless I was 1. Almost dead already. 2. Not paying a lick of attention 3. Completely out of life force, and my fear on cd. You really just have to recognize what a backstab thief is gonna do, if you see a dagger thief running towards you, get a defensive cd ready, or be ready to dodge, it’ll throw off the entire sequence of combat for the thief.

My advice for anyone having issues with a class or build? Play it for a while. I used to have issues with thieves on my necro, so I made a thief, and played the most popular builds. I learned what a thief is generally gonna do first, what animations to look for, and how other skilled players (in my case necros) were countering what I was trying to do, so I could replicate it on my own necro.

I’m a thief, I know how to play, and I KNOW that backstab instagib builds are OP.

You guys are morons. Can’t wait to see you squirm when you get nerfed to death.

So much idiocy in this forum. It hurts my brain!

“Weapon skills cost initiative points, but they have no recharge time, so thieves can use them back-to-back.” – spamming is part of thief’s playstyle.

Stop with the qqing and get better at dodging, movement, and overall…your class.

PS: Anyone who still thinks backstab is OP, has the reaction time of a sloth or is too kitten to carry a stun breaker. This goes back to getting better.

Pawstruck.9708:

@Kurow,

Backstab builds can instagib (read: <2 seconds) many classes and builds. It is not okay in an MMO PVP environment to 100-0 someone before the human mind can even react. That’s FPS territory.

Also, you’re a prick.

As I already said, backstab can instagib bad players, and players with the reaction time of a sloth that are running either glass cannon builds or are severely underleveled/outgeared in wvw.

For you, let’s use another example…shall we?

Oh no, engineer instagibing…NERF ENGINEER PLEASE!

PS: I just say it like I see it…calling me names because you didn’t want to hear it doesn’t change anything. I have no issues with these backstab thieves when they try jump me and die…I wonder why!

Pawstruck

before the human mind can even react.

Pawstruck

(read: <2 seconds)

I think we have identified your problem.

The HS nerf was understandable, it was meant as a finisher not a all the time spammer. The Pistol Whip nerf had good intentions but was done wrong. The problem with PW isn’t the skill itself, so nerfing the skill itself punishes people who don’t use haste in their builds further. Same thing if they nerf Backstab when the problem is actually the C&D>Steal>Assassination Signet combo and the fact that you get all that damage instantly. Solution is to obviously not nerf the skill, because that just makes Backstab useless for people who don’t make specs that revolve around it.

Heartseeker nerf was warranted, Pistol Whip nerf was warranted. However, Pistol Whip nerf didn’t hit where it was needed: the stun.

There is no reason for a skill to be weaker than your auto attack when it used to be your main damage. People are still abusing Haste + PW for kills without people even being able to react, so the problem still persists, but Pistol Whip is now completely reliant on it. I don’t understand why people think this is okay. I shouldn’t be forced to use a utility skill to expect one of my skills to even be useful.

Backstab can only instantly kill glass cannons. I agree that Assassin’s Signet needs some work, since it can add up way more damage on Backstab than really should be able to come out. However, Backstab itself is not the problem.

All classes can instagib other players. Just because thief has instant distance closers doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to do it as well.

As shown in that video, that engineer is instagibbing at a range of 1200.

tl;dr: Assassin’s Signet is the only thing that needs nerfed. Everything else is line with what other classes can do.

Nerf the effin Engineer. Wholy Kitten Skrittman that’s burst.

So when thieves are popping sin sig in stealth, hitting 1, and winning, seeing as how that’s a “3-button-wonder”, I would assume one of those buttons is getting a nerf.

You’ve completely neglected the positional requirement to get decent damage there. Backstab from the front, without any traits, does 50% of its full damage. When you factor in traits that increase damage from behind, its an even bigger gap. And if that thief doesn’t get their one shot backstab from behind, they’re left with everything on cooldown and no initiative. Everything they have went into that one hit. Now they are sitting ducks. Fish in a barrel. Dead within seconds if you’re paying attention enough to launch a counter attack.

my main is a thief and i don they are op, yes it has burst damages but has its weaknesses at the same time .. i personally don use bs that much as it doesnt suit my playstyle ..
but i would like to mention one thing here, when i go stealth, the other person doesnt sit there saying come and hit me on my back .. he dodges and try to go as far as possible until i show up again .. and if someone does that and gets hit and complains this ability is op then i have nothing to say ..lol
if u play wow , a rogue can get u stun locked till ur dead .. at least u have a chance to survive and counter thiefs

Mediocre players that know how to whine are the bane of forums. Let me just point out that this game is supposed to be competitive. When you die from better players , you look for your misstakes 1-st. After the thief making the steal or c&d , going in stealth and afterwards hitting you , you had all the time in the world to counteract with something. Anet have stated over and over taht there are extreme builds in the game and people will be rly interested in showing off. The hardest hitting skill in the game isn’t backstab , the thief has little to none survivalabilites if being countered. It’s job is to pick targets in Spvp 5v5 , and be mobile around the map , or to make cap holders leave the point if condition built. The logic is simple to comprehend :
-if you are playing with a power build , with low armour and a low hp pool dependent on the proffesion played, you will die. You will die from defensive build in most cases , you will die from other power builds and condition build , and you will die even faster from selfaware theifs. Go on youtube and look for teams playing vs other teams , check streams , the people have kindly given their builds and tips.
-please for the love of god or whatever you believe in , if you are talking about nerf , consider your own skills and the fact that not the steath and backstab need fix, but the signet that is making the entire thing work.

One-on-one a backstab thief will not win against any class with at least 2700 armor one anti-burst CD.

Currently, on my Warrior I’m getting bursted for 1/4 of my health and then gib the Thief in a few hits.
I imagine if the burst gets nerfed even more I can use Spiked Armor trait and go AFK, while the Thief kills himself from just retailation.

Its because there is a specific build that has one and only one purpose and that is to gank other players.

There are several factors that make it excessive.
1. Immobilize. You can’t move, you can’t dodge. In and of itself isnt too bad.
but.
2. stuns. You can’t do anything when stunned. Granted they are exceedingly short in duration but the stuns are suffient in many cases to interupt abilities.
AND.
3. Stealth. Generally you don’t see it comming. Again, not a huge deal but when combines with immobile and stuns its a tough pill to swallow. The most nefarious part of this though is the current character draw issues in WvW. Stealthing in many instances will keep you from being drawn back in especially in larger engagements. This makes retaliation almost impossible.
4. Damage. As if the immobile and stuns and stealth were not enough. It only takes 3 maybe 4 attacks to finish someone off. And yet again. If it was just raw damage it wouldnt be such a big deal since you could actually dodge to avoid it.

Its a perfect storm of getting your kitten handed to you with little to no chance to fight back. I have been on both ends of this. Its no fun getting complety destroyed. And its no fun obliterating people like that.

In the end there is only 1 skill that make the build as offensive as it is. I wouldnt be suprised to see it reworked or take a massive hit with the nerf bat.

I hate seeing them nerf the Thief with every patch also… I mean seriously, a Thief is supposed to be able to kill you within seconds, and supposed to be the most deadly class there is with their disadvantage being their armor/low health.

Honestly, just nerf the warrior now LMAO, the warrior does way to much damage with heavy armor (capable of taking lots of damage) a thief cannot take because of their armor/who they are.

I mean if a Thief had heavy armor, then OK, maybe the nerf is somewhat acceptable and yeah I know, thieves are all about mobility, and what not.. I am just just saying, they ARE MEANT TO BE DEADLY since they aren’t tanks, and they usually close the gap and fight in their foes faces.

Sad tho the Thief got nerfed, and even every other class… To bad tho, people will complain about everything instead of learning to counter a class or play their class correctly….

I think thief still needs a lot of work, but then again, so does memser, and ranger, and necromancer.

Is backstab OP? Possibly by itself, but any player who knows its coming has the stun break ready and usually ends up winning. The problem is anything plus haste seems to be stupidly one sided. Fact is no class should be able to down another in 3 seconds.

The real question is whether you can beat a back stabbing thief and the answer is yes, but not usually on other glass builds. Lets be honest most of the complaints come from those who cant beat the build. those of us who can not because of skill but because of the sheer number of times we have fought this type of play realize its like op but far from something that cant be dealt with.

All classes can down another in three seconds. If you think thief is the only one, you are extremely delusional. If you build glass cannon and expect to still be a tank, then you’re going to be instantly killed by any other glass cannon build that gets the jump on you.

Stop acting like that’s why thief needs a nerf. Every kitten class can do it.

I have a Thief with 2200 toughness and I have experienced bursty backstab builds first hand.

It looks a little something like this….

Here is another one….

and my stats for those that will ask

The only thing I know to do is pray that I can shadowstep away if I am paying close attention. The problem is, that often it is an opener and you have no way to avoid it.

Jnaathra.6549:

Here is another one….

And a warrior still can do the same dmg while having twice as much base HP and being a armor class higher, with less effort i might add.

Not counting that every other class can put out the same numbers when specced on glass cannon (aka the Engeneer build we just saw, who can do the burst even faster, while being at a range of 1200).

I don’t see the problem, really.

The problem is that after any other glass cannon class unloads burst like that they are dead in the water. Not so with stealth.