Guild Wars 2

dragon tooth. 4 sec cast time, big red tooth falls out of the sky on your head that you can avoid.
FOUR.
the largest crit i have ever had on this ability was 3k
you would think an ability THAT SLOW , would have a risk vs reward

the problem is backstab can be done twice in a fight and hit upwards of 14k. AND THEN you can disappear after doing it.

i cant think of any game thats had stealth that let you normally remove yourself from combat with stealth and let you redo your backstab attacks.
can you imagine if you were allowed to do this nonsense in D&D?

BishopX.6453:

dragon tooth. 4 sec cast time, big red tooth falls out of the sky on your head that you can avoid.
FOUR.
the largest crit i have ever had on this ability was 3k
you would think an ability THAT SLOW , would have a risk vs reward

the problem is backstab can be done twice in a fight and hit upwards of 14k. AND THEN you can disappear after doing it.

i cant think of any game thats had stealth that let you normally remove yourself from combat with stealth and let you redo your backstab attacks.
can you imagine if you were allowed to do this nonsense in D&D?

…and the amount of options and skills a thief has at its disposal to escape from a zerg or a failed attempt as opposed to an ele is……???

Yes, let’s also ignore the fact that there’s numerous number of aoe skills at an ele’s disposal too.

Just for you:

Seriously…people need to get better. That will fix the thief issue. Whining and kittening, asking for nerfs, simply because one cannot play a class to its potential and gets wrecked by another class, is not the solution.

Spend less time qqing on forums about dying to a thief, and perhaps people can improve on their skills.

Jnaathra@ ,you might have 220 toughness,but you still have 14k hp.Aren’t you running the same burst BS build,or PW?

Kurow.6973:

BishopX.6453:

dragon tooth. 4 sec cast time, big red tooth falls out of the sky on your head that you can avoid.
FOUR.
the largest crit i have ever had on this ability was 3k
you would think an ability THAT SLOW , would have a risk vs reward

the problem is backstab can be done twice in a fight and hit upwards of 14k. AND THEN you can disappear after doing it.

i cant think of any game thats had stealth that let you normally remove yourself from combat with stealth and let you redo your backstab attacks.
can you imagine if you were allowed to do this nonsense in D&D?

…and the amount of options and skills a thief has at its disposal to escape from a zerg or a failed attempt as opposed to an ele is……???

Yes, let’s also ignore the fact that there’s numerous number of aoe skills at an ele’s disposal too.

Just for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7U45lv_uY0

Seriously…people need to get better. That will fix the thief issue. Whining and kittening, asking for nerfs, simply because one cannot play a class to its potential and gets wrecked by another class, is not the solution.

Spend less time qqing on forums about dying to a thief, and perhaps people can improve on their skills.

You are telling people that they are bad and need to learn to play while simultaneously championing a class that can devastatingly effective using only 1 attack skill repeatedly. I’m not saying you’re trying to be ironic intentionally but at the very least your bias is laughable.

Not sure where this sentiment of backstab only destroys glass cannons is coming from. Glass cannons get destroyed by anything, they’re the ones at fault for speccing that way to begin with.

However, I can backstab my friend’s Engineer who is rocking full Rune of the Undead and Rabid Amulet (meaning hella high toughness) for 10.8k consistently every time. This is of course, with the Signet to boost as well. If you add on cloak and dagger and steal damage, if he’s not dead by the backstab, one heartseeker is enough to finish him off. This is with him going full on toughness with 17k HP.

I’m just tired of hearing the excuse “Don’t build glass cannon.”
I’m a mesmer my escapes are a few stealths (One actually has to be channeled) My issue that I get kitten off the most about any thief is the fact that I can see them coming before they hit stealth and I have to play (Press Dodge now and hope he was using his attacks already). 90% of all my defensive skills that protect me require me to actually lock on a target. He can be behind me, beside me, hell under ground, but one that step locks in I can’t target him anymore. Therefore, I can’t deploy my clones (Or illusions) to my aid. Literally, any other class out there today has yet to require me to put too much effort. Not saying I come out of every battle victorious, but I am saying when it comes to fighting a thief it’s basically a flee I have to do.

Correct me if I’m wrong but please i’m trying to understand this one part.

TO the thief users: True you make a glass cannon for high burst. THE ONLY difference between your stealth and any other stealth (such as my class mesmer) We can’t chain high burst damage. It would be a wett dream come true if I could make 3 clones spawn at once. The most I’ve done with just a single clone is 6k. If I could spawn 3 Cripple Greatsword illusions at the same time I wouldn’t even need my stealth.

Shredicus.8706:

You are telling people that they are bad and need to learn to play while simultaneously championing a class that can devastatingly effective using only 1 attack skill repeatedly. I’m not saying you’re trying to be ironic intentionally but at the very least your bias is laughable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyKXqqT5c1k

So condition Thief is OP now, too?
Give me a break, really.

Yes, this guy only spams one skill, and yes enemies die to it. OP?

No, they don’t dodge it a single time and only would have to use a frikin con removal when he’s out of initiative, and then just auto attack him down.
Free kill.

Jez, quit whining.

BishopX.6453:

dragon tooth. 4 sec cast time, big red tooth falls out of the sky on your head that you can avoid.
FOUR.
the largest crit i have ever had on this ability was 3k
you would think an ability THAT SLOW , would have a risk vs reward

the problem is backstab can be done twice in a fight and hit upwards of 14k. AND THEN you can disappear after doing it.

i cant think of any game thats had stealth that let you normally remove yourself from combat with stealth and let you redo your backstab attacks.
can you imagine if you were allowed to do this nonsense in D&D?

And that’s what didn’t have me make a thief at first. I assumed there stealth only was active out of combat. Even then any other mmo I know you hit someone in stealth it knocks them out of it. OR they have reduced movement. (at lower levels..ect ect.)

Shomaruki.7395:

And that’s what didn’t have me make a thief at first. I assumed there stealth only was active out of combat. Even then any other mmo I know you hit someone in stealth it knocks them out of it. OR they have reduced movement. (at lower levels..ect ect.)

Thieves get knocked out of stealth when they attack AND have reduced movement speed in stealth.

If stealth is used in combat (ended with getting knocked out of it because of attacking, like a backstab) then they get a multiple second CD in which they can’t stealth again (but still waste their stealth skills, just nothing happens).

Also nearly all stealthes only last 3 seconds on default (can be traited on 4 seconds with heavy investment into shadow arts, resulting in a huge dmg loss), except for the Shadow Refugee (AoE field) which makes you stay in it (super easy AoE target, if people would use their brain to figure out counters instead of writing whining post on the forums).

Also, for what someone else wrote – Thieves simply can’t insta backstab you.
Even if the target is a afk baddie, they need to Steal, CnD (1 second cast stealth on “kiss” range, can be shortend when arriving at the target when perfectly set up with a shadow step), walk around the target and backstab, which all together takes around 1-2 seconds when executed perfectly.

Not even counting moving targets, but hell, which good player would move around when a Thief tries to backstab them, right?
You could actually avoid being hit in the back, take only lousy dmg, and not complain anymore. Or you dodge and walk 2 meters, Thief can’t keep up in stealth, and his stealth will simply run out (3 seconds, at that point only 1-2 sec left), just destealthing, with half of his initiative gone for nothing.

Truly horrible things would happen if you would try to understand the class you are complaining about, and learn to counter its (already very limited) strengths.

BishopX.6453:

…can you imagine if you were allowed to do this nonsense in D&D?

In D&D it’s called hide in plain sight
Also, who said to you guys that you can spam stealth in gw2? learn freacking mechanics, kittenS

Lumines.3916:

Not sure where this sentiment of backstab only destroys glass cannons is coming from. Glass cannons get destroyed by anything, they’re the ones at fault for speccing that way to begin with.

Nerf high-dps thiefs, they get destroyed by anything. oh wait..

However, I can backstab my friend’s Engineer who is rocking full Rune of the Undead and Rabid Amulet (meaning hella high toughness) for 10.8k consistently every time. This is of course, with the Signet to boost as well. If you add on cloak and dagger and steal damage, if he’s not dead by the backstab, one heartseeker is enough to finish him off. This is with him going full on toughness with 17k HP.

Maybe there is a problem with toughtness then? I figured that vitality is by far more usefull atm. That needs to be tested, before nerfing kitteh out of thief.

Avalaxus.2081:

Nerf high-dps thiefs, they get destroyed by anything. oh wait..
Maybe there is a problem with toughtness then? I figured that vitality is by far more usefull atm. That needs to be tested, before nerfing kitteh out of thief.

Not sure what your point is here, I was actually defending the thief a bit because I know half the fools I kill and QQ about it build hella glass and shatter if anything so much as whiff in their general direction, something the thief does for the fat backstab. It’s pretty easy to kill a thief if you’re able to avoid the insta-gib.

Just having high HP but little toughness means you’ll get hit with a monster crit and get instagibbed anyway, thats when I’d stab my friend for 15k+ while heartseeker finishes the job easily with a 7k crit.

It’s just even with high toughness, it doesn’t really do all that much against a loaded backstab.

I play a thief and agree the extreme backstab burst is too much. I recommend 2 fixes:
1. stealth – if you miss your stealth should end, not keep giving you more chances
2. steal should not be instant cast, which will prevent CnD-steal opener, giving targets a chance to avoid the signet-BS follower.

Redscope.6215:

Incurafy.6329:

Or maybe it’s because we’re sick and tired of being hit by nerfs that don’t even make sense? Any Thief worth his salt will admit straight up that Pistol Whip was (and to an extent, still is) OP when combined with Haste (our Quickness ability), but without it, it was a mediocre skill in PvP and an excellent skill in PvE.

So basically you’re upset about needless nerfs, but you explain how PW just got a needed nerf?

As I’ve said before, quickness is a problem. When and if they address it, they’re going to hit multiple classes, multiple builds, traits, and weaponry. They’ve got a lot to consider when changing quickness as opposed to changing one particular skill while using quickness.

Are you kidding me? Did you even read my post? I did NOT explain how PW got a “needed” post at all. What the kitten did you just read? Clearly it wasn’t my post.

Also, yeah, as I said in the post that you didn’t even read, QUICKNESS is the issue, PW isn’t/wasn’t.

Redscope.6215:

Incurafy.6329:

Also, I know that I’m wasting my time here because you’re obviously either 8 years old or a troll, but have you ever actually rolled a Thief and played it for more than five minutes? Anyone who thinks that any aspect of the class is just a 2 or 3 button wonder is an absolute moron.

A moron is someone who thinks that thieves weren’t pressing ‘22222222’ to win until the Heartseeker nerf, and then weren’t popping Haste and pressing ‘33333333’ to win until the PW nerf. That was the whole reason for those nerfs. The thief was a button mash hero.

So when thieves are popping sin sig in stealth, hitting 1, and winning, seeing as how that’s a “3-button-wonder”, I would assume one of those buttons is getting a nerf.

Probably not backstab, probably sin sig.

Just saying, better to be prepared than to be wasting your time crying about it on the forums when it happens.

A moron is someone who thinks that any good Thief was actually spam Heartseeker to win fights (spamming didn’t actually work, contrary to what you probably found after being killed by one Thief who was 10x better than you), or spamming PW with Haste and nothing else. Also, thinking that Backstab is an auto-win is abokittenely kittening stupid.

Edited my moderator: The message was edited as it was breaking a rule of the code of conduct (disrespectful comment)

For some reason, every argument for keeping BS seems to be about “how we have to sacrifice everything and build our entire build around that one skill” I mean… That’s what I understand as a gimmick build.
Ignoring the damage potential it has, is it really that much fun for anyone? It just guides some people looking for “easy” wins to build their characters in a very specific way. (Yes, I said “easy”. Get over it. It’s not like you have to fight for 5 minutes to earn that kill, even if setting up your pray might not be as easy as walking up to them and hitting them with a sword.)

I don’t get where is the fun in fights that take less than 2 seconds, unless the opponent knows what to do and reacts fast enough, in which case you’re probably a goner.

Not sure about you guys, but hitting a opponent with few skills and seeing him go down doesn’t exactly give me that “Oh, that was a good fight” kinda feeling.

Overall, it might be a good idea to cap the maximum burst damage you can deal to another player (with one skill) to max 50% of their max health. So you at the very least need 2 skills to take someone out.

For me the damage from Backstab is fine, a thief for me is meant to down things quickly and I believe that is the way ANET intended it to be also.

Before for me it was not PW that needed a nerf, and now its not backstab, but its the Assassin’s Signet and the Signets of Might trait that need a nerf (Thats 150% Damage along with 5 stacks of might just there) and possibly preventing cloak and dagger to be precast in conjunction with steal.

I have played my Thief some in sPvP, and also my Necro and Guardian. I have played other classes in other games as well. IMHO it comes down to how to counter. And it comes down to how to counter not just a class, but the build, and the player themselves. All of which comes with experience, and some very quick adjustment (or not) on my part during the tournament.

I do not have a BS build in GW2, but have in other games. Hubby and I have brought BS rouges to a BG together. You think one is bad? Try to counter two playing together. Or one BS and the other autofiring arrows at you. Did we choose our targets on purpose. Yes! Were they mostly casters? Yes! Were they alone or busy concentrating on another target. Yes! Not going to waste our time/stealth on someone who can counter us more easily, like Warrior, or in this game, Guardian.

Should you run/dodge from a Thief? I would like you to. Can’t tell you how many times I have had persons run away from my rouges, when they could have beat me. I often don’t shadow UNTIL the person sees me. And it amazes me how many times they just stand there. Like, where did she go? They often don’t move, don’t dodge, just stand there. Can I shoot pistols at you when I am shadowed? Yep! Does it last long…no. But if the person hasn’t moved, put up shield, done something…then those were free shots to me.

But I have weaknesses. I would not even consider trying to hold a node with my Thief. My Necro holds them very well. Can my Necro run around the BG looking for a good target to take on? No. Has she taken out Thiefs that try to take her node. Hell yes! And enjoyed it.

But all this is based on my playstyle and my build and my preferences. I don’t expect to win against everyone. But also, there should not be 1 hit kills either. It’s a lot to consider when balancing. I DO think that being able to dual persons would hlep everyone learn how to counter different builds, if you don’t want to roll an alt and try it yourself.

Thief doesn’t always need to be about burst for backstab to be viable either. I’m currently traited into acrobatics/shadow arts, and have tons of fun just screwing with people. Granted, I occasionally get a little HS happy when trying to close gaps or just do a decent amount of damage, but I can usually bait 3-4 people away from objectives and either clear them out one by one or get them all chasing me so that someone else can take the objective. I had a group last week trying to kill me at the supply camp and granted I got lucky a few times and misplayed things multiple times, including not knowing my shortbow was equipped instead of my dagger, I still managed to kill the thief that I was going after..

This is exactly what Backstab is, eventually everyone will learn the moves to counter it, but until then this will happen.

Stop pretending thieves are squishy thus they are glass cannons it simply does not apply to this class. Despite having low health and medium armor it still has great survival trough huge mobility with speed and shadow steps and multiple stealth options.

It’s funny cause thieves never say they got low survival, they all say they have low health and armor it’s like they knew they had great survival, but prefer to not mention it so they can keep crying about nerfs.

^They do have great survival but only if stealthed and if you can get into it. Usually if im on the losing end of a fight wether this is 1v1 or 1v5 when I can get my stealth off I can if I put all effort and skills into it get a 50/50 chance of turning the tide, but it’s a big gamble.

Thieves don’t have a balancing issue, it’s either we go Glass Cannon or we go Glass Cannon, because if we spec into defensive toughness/vitality we are still very fragile and it’s been like that from day one. So hence why 99% of the Thieves go full out power because it doesn’t matter if we have 5k more HP or not we still die in seconds.

So don’t come here and saying we are crying we are nerfed all the time because we have the right to complain about patches and skill updates, lowering our damage is plain stupid because that we are ment to do.

Sebyos@,can i just quote you from other topic?:

“Just run away it’s a kitten class atm. Even if you beat them to 5% hp they use SB, stealth+Signet of 25% speed and run away, heal back and come back at you full of hp and initiative rdy to crit you for crazy amounts again. You don’t win against a good thief”.

If they are so fast,how can you run away?
They will heal,you will not?
You don’t win against any good player,if you are not good.

So please ,spear us your hatred against thieves,unless you have something constructive to say.

Edit:I am getting angry because of such stupid topics,and i will get suspended again for abusive language.
Let’s be more rational…
So….according to your words,from 3 Utility Skills,2 will be Smoke Bomb and Signet Of Shadows.
What will be the Third?
Shadowstep? This will leave them w/o Assassin’s Signet,and they will not have “crazy damage”.
Assassins Signet They will not have Stun breaker.
What will be ?
Where is the survivability+crazy damage at the same time?Where are the condition removals?We don’t have passive removals every 10 seconds(i think you are main guardian according to your posts),and with low health dot’s are big problem(they don’t care about toughness i’m sure you are aware).So at the end what is left?
Damage and nothing else.

To the people under the impression that thieves should stop whining about this and l2p and not “spam 333333”: First let me point out that “3” is the only damage ability for S/P, so while I’m not suggesting that spamming 3333333 is all a S/P thief does, button “3” is the only one that’s going to kill anyone.

Argue about whether playing with S/P is easy or complicated all you want. The point, and the reason I believe so many thieves are complaining about this nerf, is that our only damage skill for S/P just got nerfed to the point that it is less damage than our auto-attack. Does that seem right to anyone? The most common response to that seems to be “well it stuns/interrupts and lets you evade”. Without getting into the fact that this is merely to balance the fact that the thief must be immobile while dealing the damage of PW, the problem is we already have an interrupt (4) and if we want to not get hit it now makes way more sense to pop Black Powder (5) and auto-attack. Now we’re doing more damage, applying blindness to multiple targets (way more effective for not getting hit than hoping the mob/person swings while the PW animation is going off), and are free to move around as needed. When exactly is there a good reason to use PW in its current state?

It seems to be the consensus that this nerf was to address the OP nature of using PW + haste in pvp. From what I understand it’s STILL being used quite effectively in pvp. Did the 15% damage reduction help a bit there? Perhaps. But it was the wrong fix.

I’m all about balancing pvp, but not at the expense of pve. Maybe Anet thinks it was doing too much damage in pve as well. If that is the case I wish they’d done something more thoughtful than just effectively making it a useless skill.

So many angry people focusing on the times a thief killed them in 3 seconds, completely forgetting all the times they killed a thief in two hits as well.

A thief dies when you sneeze at him, you can talk about shadowstep and stealth, but stealth does not make a thief immune to damage, just continue swinging and you’ll kill the thief right there in his stealth. A stealthed thief has to remain very close to you because the stealth only lasts two to three seconds.

The thing with a thief is that he kills fast, but dies even faster. If the devs listen to the whining about this, we’ll have yet another broken and usuable profession/build.

If you want to kitten off a Thief specced for Backstab and steal…. here is the way: Provided you SEE the thief coming (IE, point guard) judge the distance of steal (900 range) and when they get within that range, just dodge roll. Congratulations, you’ve survived through a BS Thiefs initial burst… with a games basic mechanic. Learn to time it. It pisses me off when people do it to me (I main thief).

Someone has recently posted an 18k backstab in the sPvP forum, it is simply beyond stupid and makes a mockery of a game that supposedly has a high skill cap.

As for the excuses about being a glass cannon, thief is ezmode as a glass cannon, which is precisely why so many play it, you can get away with playing a glass cannon when stealth, moblity + escapability combine with ridiculous damage to give a far more survivable glass cannon then you get for most other classes.

No wonder this game has dropped from top 3 on Twitch to 32 as I speak, esport don’t make me laugh.

Sylosi.6503:

No wonder this game has dropped from top 3 on Twitch to 32 as I speak, esport don’t make me laugh.

That’s because people who are interested about Guild Wars 2 are busy playing the s**t out of it and don’t have time watching streams.How about mmorpg.com?GW2 is number one for years.

thieves dont require skill sorry but they are by far the easiest class to pvp with.

What other class can you just spam 1 button and take like 3 – 4people without dying lol.

Want to whine? go look at what rangers have to go through because they got the kitten end of the stick.

Thieves are a broken class on more then one level. You will get nerfed again and again. Your stealth will get fixed eventually and you will be nerfed some more.

There is a reason when you join a spvp pub 80% of the teams are thieves.

Its the easy mode button smash class of GW2 at this point in time. suck it up shut up and stop QQ’ing.

Zsymon.8457:

So many angry people focusing on the times a thief killed them in 3 seconds, completely forgetting all the times they killed a thief in two hits as well.

A thief dies when you sneeze at him, you can talk about shadowstep and stealth, but stealth does not make a thief immune to damage, just continue swinging and you’ll kill the thief right there in his stealth. A stealthed thief has to remain very close to you because the stealth only lasts two to three seconds.

The thing with a thief is that he kills fast, but dies even faster. If the devs listen to the whining about this, we’ll have yet another broken and usuable profession/build.

No they don’t lol. Or did you forget that they have the most avoidance in the game and the highest mobility of any class…. oh and they can just stealth and run away.

if a thief see’s he’s losing bam outty, peace kitten ill be back in a few seconds to correct my mistake and gank you with my “pro” class…..

lol just sayin.

I main a thief by the way, since beta. I wont sit and brag about killing anyone or about how thieves are just fine, they aren’t pure and simple.

What about Elementalist and there mobility, they out run us.

Shredicus.8706:

Kurow.6973:

BishopX.6453:

dragon tooth. 4 sec cast time, big red tooth falls out of the sky on your head that you can avoid.
FOUR.
the largest crit i have ever had on this ability was 3k
you would think an ability THAT SLOW , would have a risk vs reward

the problem is backstab can be done twice in a fight and hit upwards of 14k. AND THEN you can disappear after doing it.

i cant think of any game thats had stealth that let you normally remove yourself from combat with stealth and let you redo your backstab attacks.
can you imagine if you were allowed to do this nonsense in D&D?

…and the amount of options and skills a thief has at its disposal to escape from a zerg or a failed attempt as opposed to an ele is……???

Yes, let’s also ignore the fact that there’s numerous number of aoe skills at an ele’s disposal too.

Just for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7U45lv_uY0

Seriously…people need to get better. That will fix the thief issue. Whining and kittening, asking for nerfs, simply because one cannot play a class to its potential and gets wrecked by another class, is not the solution.

Spend less time qqing on forums about dying to a thief, and perhaps people can improve on their skills.

You are telling people that they are bad and need to learn to play while simultaneously championing a class that can devastatingly effective using only 1 attack skill repeatedly. I’m not saying you’re trying to be ironic intentionally but at the very least your bias is laughable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyKXqqT5c1k

I don’t think you understood a single word I typed in response, considering this post you made.

Honestly speaking…if you build a glass cannon, you SHOULD be hitting hard and dying fast. Asking to nerf because a glass cannon hits you hard, especially when you run around in a glass cannon is pathetic.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with thief as is. The only thing that IS wrong, is the fact that thieves SEVERELY lack weapon skills and skill diversity. However, the skill diversity issue applies to other classes as well…not so much the lack of weapon skills that thieves have though.

That being said, all thief players should start rolling a different class, preferably a warrior/guardian/elementalist by now because with all these constant nonsensical qq by terrible players going around in these forums, ANet is bound to try please them by nerfing unnecessary skills in the future.

It’s already started where there’s now qq about condition builds with thief too. Next will be auto attack. Nerf thief auto attacks…they hit too hard and can kill me by spamming auto attacks.

My personal opinion about skills that hit that high (not only backstab) is, that they should all be nerfed. no class should be able to 1 hit others.

Some of you little gaming prodigies really need to get over the idea that ‘Skill’ is measured by the number of different buttons you press.

I can put my cat on the keyboard and it’ll hit a whole shed load of different buttons.

Daecollo.9578:

What about Elementalist and there mobility, they out run us.

While using skills sure, but a thief is passively faster with their signet.

Plus a elementalist running isn’t a threat, a thief is because you wont see them again until they are on top of you ganking you again.

Stealth + mobility + high burst = OP in EVERY SINGLE MMO TO DATE. They have all gotten nerfed hard throughout the years in my experience. And the reason is clear. The class build in general is just a huge advantage over other players. Plain and simple.

Come to terms with it. More nerfs will come.

Namu.5712:

Daecollo.9578:

What about Elementalist and there mobility, they out run us.

While using skills sure, but a thief is passively faster with their signet.

Plus a elementalist running isn’t a threat, a thief is because you wont see them again until they are on top of you ganking you again.

Stealth + mobility + high burst = OP in EVERY SINGLE MMO TO DATE. They have all gotten nerfed hard throughout the years in my experience. And the reason is clear. The class build in general is just a huge advantage over other players. Plain and simple.

Come to terms with it. More nerfs will come.

“Plus a elementalist running isn’t a threat, a thief is because you wont see them again until they are on top of you ganking you again”? Once I spot a thief, I chase them till they die. It takes a little bit of common sense, that most people seem to lack to predict their movement.

“Stealth + mobility + high burst = OP in EVERY SINGLE MMO TO DATE.” I take it you’re talking out of your kitten. Ever played Aion? The stealth class took the MOST skill and effort to play in that game…AND they had stealths that lasted from 50s-unlimited.

“The class build in general is just a huge advantage over other players.” Maybe against bad players that can’t find their dodge, break stun/immobilze buttons.

If you cant beat em, join em. If the devs think one ability doing 9k is fair, use it yourself. If/when you figure out what kills you as thief, you’ll be able to play AGAINST them that much better.

Wolfe.3097

sorry i dont use basilisk, and i agree id be ok with a failed backstab unstealthing us. but it doesnt change the fact that compared to any other skill in the game, its harder to land, regardless of it being easy.

and you know what, outside of the cheese that is precast CnD>steal>backstab, BS is entirely avoidable. Ive played against actually good players who dont stand there adn let you stab them in the back, they move.

but i agree its easy to land on people who dont try to avoid it at all, even when they see me go into stealth.

Your whole argument is based on the fact that you do not use basilisk venom. If they enforced that by removing it from the game, I would probably be a lot closer to your point of view, although even then I would say BS needs toning down.

People who are “just standing there” may well have no choice. Even people who are (a) sensibly mobile, (b) aware of what is going on and (c ) packing some purges in their utility, will spend a certain proportion of their time fighting other opponents with purges on CD. At that point, not only is landing BS very easy, the whole insta-kill chain is pretty much a given for any halfway competent thief player.

You would be surprised how many people just stand there and let you get behind them, it is amazing.

If the player is not immobilized by the thief’s own doing, then your point is moot cribbage.

Saying the thief is having easy backstabs and should be toned down because the player may be stunned by some other professions skill or because his CDs are all down does not make sense at all. A thief with no CDs up is a dead thief every time, what is the difference? Should we then nerf SB auto attack on rangers some more because his kill is guaranteed against me when I had no CDS up? oO

A player who knows there are thieves in the zerg would be wise not to waste his purges.

/confused by your logic…

OH and I will say it again, don’t F with Backstab, mess with the synergies instead please, because there are those of us who roll backstab builds that do not abuse the stacking and high crits.

Why is it wrong to say that in the situation that is MOST applicable to a multi-player fight is one we should take note of? I can’t see how you can say “A thief is only OP if other players are around” in a game where other players are around most of the time!

If a player gets a short immob on him that he can’t escape, it’s practically a guaranteed kill for the thief, as almost everyone here acknowledges. How many classes is that true for?

And yes, I know there are many people who stand around gormlessly and let themselves be killed. We can’t really use those players as evidence can we? The point is that even players who a competent PvPers have no defence against the whole “if at any time you stop moving and take your eye off the thief you are dead.”

Pimpslapper.2047:

You would be surprised how many people just stand there and let you get behind them, it is amazing.

If the player is not immobilized by the thief’s own doing, then your point is moot cribbage.

Saying the thief is having easy backstabs and should be toned down because the player may be stunned by some other professions skill or because his CDs are all down does not make sense at all. A thief with no CDs up is a dead thief every time, what is the difference? Should we then nerf SB auto attack on rangers some more because his kill is guaranteed against me when I had no CDS up? oO

A player who knows there are thieves in the zerg would be wise not to waste his purges.

/confused by your logic…

OH and I will say it again, don’t F with Backstab, mess with the synergies instead please, because there are those of us who roll backstab builds that do not abuse the stacking and high crits.

It’s not abusing, if it’s a build strictly built with no survivability and all offense put into 1 attack. It is a choice! You either choose to run a 1 combo wonder, fail and die against decent/good players, or you don’t and play smart.

Seriously, people in this game give me such a headache with some of their comments.

Kurow.6973:

…and the amount of options and skills a thief has at its disposal to escape from a zerg or a failed attempt as opposed to an ele is……???

Yes, let’s also ignore the fact that there’s numerous number of aoe skills at an ele’s disposal too.

Just for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7U45lv_uY0

Seriously…people need to get better. That will fix the thief issue. Whining and kittening, asking for nerfs, simply because one cannot play a class to its potential and gets wrecked by another class, is not the solution.

Spend less time qqing on forums about dying to a thief, and perhaps people can improve on their skills.

So you go to the 1 guy (daphoenix) who is fully geared, and tanky as can be for your video proof of how good an Elementalist can be? You fail good sir, now go youtube some thief videos, and try playing an Elementalist before acting like you know one.

Otaur.9268:

Kurow.6973:

…and the amount of options and skills a thief has at its disposal to escape from a zerg or a failed attempt as opposed to an ele is……???

Yes, let’s also ignore the fact that there’s numerous number of aoe skills at an ele’s disposal too.

Just for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7U45lv_uY0

Seriously…people need to get better. That will fix the thief issue. Whining and kittening, asking for nerfs, simply because one cannot play a class to its potential and gets wrecked by another class, is not the solution.

Spend less time qqing on forums about dying to a thief, and perhaps people can improve on their skills.

So you go to the 1 guy (daphoenix) who is fully geared, and tanky as can be for your video proof of how good an Elementalist can be? You fail good sir, now go youtube some thief videos, and try playing an Elementalist before acting like you know one.

…and you, and your kind go to all the thieves that are fully geared and complete glass cannons for your qq.

To add to that, I do play an elementalist.

Shut up! Take your qq elsewhere.

PS: The fact that you’re so ignorant that you dismiss a pretty good elementalist as proof that elementalists are capable of being very good if played right, just because he’s geared, is not just laughable, but tells us a lot about yourself.

Kurow

It’s not abusing, if it’s a build strictly built with no survivability and all offense put into 1 attack. It is a choice! You either choose to run a 1 combo wonder, fail and die against decent/good players, or you don’t and play smart.

Seriously, people in this game give me such a headache with some of their comments.

At what point does a thief start having low survivability exactly? I’m so tired of seeing this claim.

Speccing for BS with huge burst requires no compromise on your ability to evade, dodge, stealth or just plain run away? These things will be the mainstay of your survivability on ANY thief build, and speccing for backstab does not hurt them.

If there are thief builds out there that rely on toughness and HP for survivability more than mobility and evasion, I’m not aware of them.

Please keep the insults out of threads. It’s rude and inconsiderate.

The problem most people face with thieves is that they die quickly due to their high damage capability. That’s true, but all the time I’ve been playing sPvP, as quickly as I am to kill others as a thief, they can kill me just as quickly simply by kiting and keeping me from hitting my combos. Thieves are all about the combos, and when it’s messed up, and you’ve wasted initiative, then that’s where the thief will lose. Try blind, by the way.

A funny thing that I notice is that thieves were supposed to be built around the steal mechanic, hence the name. That’s fine for PvE, but thieves who rely on stealing is not a good PvP mechanic simply because of one flaw: what you specialize in one thing, it takes away from power, and once power is too low, you can’t kill anything before they kill you because they were smart and went full power. This logic applies to just about all classes, but it applies to thieves more than all because a thief without power is just one of those target dummies.

I think most of the complaints along the lines of “I can’t beat a thief” are probably dealt with by your comments, Drake.

But the comments about backstab thieves killing people before that person has any option of reacting are where I believe the valid criticisms fall. It’s not every fight be any means but it is common enough for it to be a problem.

True Cribbage, back stab itself might need some rethinking into it, but then again so does the whole profession. I mainly want to see a steal-oriented build in sPvP, for once. I think I’ll try one again and see how many people kill me in one match

Cribbage.2056:

Kurow

It’s not abusing, if it’s a build strictly built with no survivability and all offense put into 1 attack. It is a choice! You either choose to run a 1 combo wonder, fail and die against decent/good players, or you don’t and play smart.

Seriously, people in this game give me such a headache with some of their comments.

At what point does a thief start having low survivability exactly? I’m so tired of seeing this claim.

Speccing for BS with huge burst requires no compromise on your ability to evade, dodge, stealth or just plain run away? These things will be the mainstay of your survivability on ANY thief build, and speccing for backstab does not hurt them.

If there are thief builds out there that rely on toughness and HP for survivability more than mobility and evasion, I’m not aware of them.

A thief starts having low survivability when they roll a thief, and more so when they run a full offensive build like 30-30-0-0-10 with all power/precision/crit damage…as backstab thieves do. They have no survivability utilities either because they’re running a 1 combo wonder to kill bads that have the reaction times of a sloth, and/or carries no stun/criple/immobilize breakers.

Is there a compromise to anyone’s ability to evade, dodge, or just plain run away when running any build? No! So your argument is invalid. Learn to evade, dodge, or just plain run away/kite a thief…just like they do.

You’re not aware of these thieves running toughness, vitality, and mobility (like me) because they’re usually the condition ones (because that’s really the only way a thief can viably play a defensive build effectively)…but wait, the qq regarding condition thieves are starting slowly. Once a backstab nerf comes, it’ll be qq condition thieves are OP. The main reason there’s not as much qq about condition thieves is because conditions take time to tick, therefore giving the bads and the sloths time to react…slowly, but react none the less.

There a many classes whose HP and toughness (and cleansing, etc) play a larger role in their survivability than evasion and mobility does.

Have a look through a thief’s utility options. There are relatively few decent escapes and cleanses. That’s why a BS thief is really not that atypical having weak ones.

I’m not saying they make no compromise. They definitely do. But as you almost said yourself – playing BS takes you from squishy to more squishy. Whereas it takes your offence from good to lethal. That lack of symmetry is practically the definition of imbalance in my view.

The fact that people make topics like this is a clear indication that the thief will be nerfed again.

Noone likes insta-gibbing. You can wrap it up in as much L2P bullkitten as you want. Fact remains; when you die feeling like you could have done nothing to prevent or influence the outcome of the fight, that’s just poor design. And not fun.