Guild Wars 2

Introducing Traps in World vs. World
Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!

Sounds like either smoke fields aren’t going to grant stealth any more or else everybody is going to have access to revealed on demand. I guess being able to knock someone out of sr was just not strong enough, now it needs to be made near worthless

Not sure what they made a stealth class they wanted no part of… They could have made it like GW1 and it would have been just fine…

There’s already a discussion about this going on right now, we don’t really need another one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Anti-Stealth-Traps/first#post1980730

……………

Also coming May 14: Thief reworked in to Assassin! Stealth slowly phased out as there is no need for it, and the glory days of A/x return!

Pff. I wish. Instead we just get kitten for the umpteenth time.

At this point? Remove stealth and give us huge mobility and evades… and fix P/P so I can be a Gunslinger!

R.I.P. Shadow refuge…….I miss mesmers swinging me out of it now…..

Auesis.7301:

Also coming May 14: Thief reworked in to Assassin! Stealth slowly phased out as there is no need for it, and the glory days of A/x return!

Please don’t get my hopes up.

ensoriki.5789:

Auesis.7301:

Also coming May 14: Thief reworked in to Assassin! Stealth slowly phased out as there is no need for it, and the glory days of A/x return!

Please don’t get my hopes up.

Ha, as if I had any to begin with.

RedSpectrum.1975:

R.I.P. Shadow refuge…….I miss mesmers swinging me out of it now…..

Just putting this out there:
warriors have hammer and fear me and ton of aoe dmg
mesmers have gs and focus
eles have a bunch of knockbacks and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Necros have aoe fears and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Engis have shield knockback, bomb knockback, and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Guards are already the direct counter to thieves and have pulls, knockbacks, and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge

The only 2 classes that don’t have crazy good ways to counter the sr is thief and ranger. If people are really having a problem with sr still maybe they should save some of their skills and use them strategically instead of just rolling their face all over the keyboard.

Auesis.7301:

Also coming May 14: Thief reworked in to Assassin! Stealth slowly phased out as there is no need for it, and the glory days of A/x return!

Pff. I wish. Instead we just get kitten for the umpteenth time.

Lol, because being able to steal 2 boons and hit for 2/3 the damage of backstab with a single skill is “horrible”.

Having the only true stunbreaker and condition removal in a single weapon skill is also “horrible” … not to mention it can teleport you to a location up to 1,200 range away.

Thieves are spoiled with great skills and all I see is complaining from them about how “weak they are”. If that was the case, Thieves wouldn’t be so common in PvP.

Will there be traps that lock Warriors from swinging their weapons while in it?

cough

Instead we just get kitten for the umpteenth time.

randomfightfan.4091:

Just putting this out there:
warriors have hammer and fear me and ton of aoe dmg
mesmers have gs and focus
eles have a bunch of knockbacks and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Necros have aoe fears and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Engis have shield knockback, bomb knockback, and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Guards are already the direct counter to thieves and have pulls, knockbacks, and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge

…while the Thief is 200 yards away from the refuge…

So much doom and gloom…is that time of the month already?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

randomfightfan.4091:

Just putting this out there:
warriors have hammer and fear me and ton of aoe dmg
mesmers have gs and focus
eles have a bunch of knockbacks and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Necros have aoe fears and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Engis have shield knockback, bomb knockback, and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Guards are already the direct counter to thieves and have pulls, knockbacks, and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge

…while the Thief is 200 yards away from the refuge…

So much doom and gloom…is that time of the month already?

I hear you, Vincent.

You’d think from these that:

• All warriors take Hammer and Fear Me
• All Mesmers take focus and greatsword
• Elementalists didn’t just eat several nerfs and have AOEs that aren’t easily telegraphed
• All Necros take staff and can slay thieves in their sleep with marks alone
• All Engineers use shield and bomb kit
• All Guardians take Greatsword (pulls) and Hammer (knockbacks), and are AOE Gods

Perhaps this is why the latest podcasts of several different classes are all making fun of the Thief community.

Sebrents argument: If thieves were terrible you wouldn’t see so many in pvp

Situations where thief is at all strong: Noob stomping WvW roams and Hotjoin PvP

Situations where you don’t see thieves much if at all: High level sPvP play, dedicated zergs in WvW accomplishing what WvW was designed for.

So sebrent… are you still stuck in the lowest levels of pvp?

Sebrent.3625:

Verbal Diarrhea that makes no sense

Because citing one skill on one specific weaponset that just recently got buffed = thieves skills are so awesome.

And then follow that up w/ pointing out how ridiculous it is to expect all warriors to equip hammer and fear me, mesmers focus/gs, all engis use shields and bomb kit, guards with GS and Hammer (yet, perfectly reasonable for all thieves to go S/D. Because D/P, P/D, S/P and D/D all died and went to hell for being thieves and stealing things).

Dude… it’s very clear that either you just jumped onto the S/D thief bandwagon after the patch or you have no friggin clue what you’re talking about. Possibly both.

And yea, thieves whine a lot, but not any more than guards or necros or rangers or heaven forbid, eles. Go on their forums, take a look. And before making a post about a class you clearly are lacking information about, look it up at least.

Dasorine.1964:

Sebrents argument: If thieves were terrible you wouldn’t see so many in pvp

Situations where thief is at all strong: Noob stomping WvW roams and Hotjoin PvP

Situations where you don’t see thieves much if at all: High level sPvP play, dedicated zergs in WvW accomplishing what WvW was designed for.

So sebrent… are you still stuck in the lowest levels of pvp?

(1) You do see some thieves in high level sPvP. The reason it isn’t common is due to the alpha nature of Elementalists compared to the Thief’s dependence on stealth not meshing well after the patch that prevented contesting points while stealthed. It makes teams think “why bring a Thief when you can bring an Elementalist”. It doesn’t mean the Thief is “bad”, it just means the Elementalist “fits the role better”. A thief can’t with a single build be a good roamer, point contester/defender, heal allies, give boons to allies, and run the orb. An elementalist can.

Look at why something is the way it is before you comment on it.

(2) Thieves are not just noobstomping in WvW. You see them doing extremely well in the duels (doesn’t really matter to me) and you see them dominating the small chaos groups that backcap camps, intercept reinforcements, and cause general chaos outside the mindless zerg vs zerg meta that is WvW

(3) Cute attempt. This seems to be what most in the thief community try to do when someone disagrees with them. Try to stick to the points about your class, other classes, and the game.

but thats not the only reason thieves don’t appear in high level sPvP, its mostly because they have nothing static to protect them and at that level the players actually know how to fight against stealth (Heres a big hint: Don’t just stand there doing nothing)

And with the thieves in WvW if they are moving with a group and yet people are complaining how OP they are solo it makes no sense, if its 1 thief vs a group then the group should be able to at the very least chase the thief off if not outright kill them, they really are not hard to deal with if you’ve ever figured it out.

The fact is sebrent you’ve been spewing rubbish all day about what thieves can and cannot do with flawed information behind it to the point where its questionable whether you’ve ever played a thief or any content outside of hotjoin spvp and sitting around the middle of a field in wvw all day.

Please go point out the flawed information I’m “spewing”.

I play Ranger and Mesmer, as stated many times on various forums. Both don’t have problems with a majority of Thieves. I’m not an exception here. Most thieves are rubbish and don’t even understand half the potential of the class.

It’s only thieves with the skill level of players like Xeviel (Anvil Rock knows him as "that blue-haired thief … check forum for posts griping about him) that present a threat as they know how OP the class can be and will tell you as such. He even thinks revealed would be fine going back to 4 seconds, but you don’t see me asking for that. Heck the only things I ask are that
(1) Thief mechanics adhere to the same mechanics as other classes that support “skilled play”
(2) Thief players stop griping and acting like their class is “so weak”.

Know of any other class that can constantly stealth?
Steal boons constantly while also doing high damage with the same ability?
Disengage from a fight with any class?
Have a hard counter that can’t actually catch/kill them unless they are too stubborn to disengage from the fight?

Nope? Okay then.

This class became known as the OP class right after release and has retained that distinction for 6+ months. What followed was a massive bandwagon of players jumping on the class because being OP is fun and they wanted to have fun too.

Now when anything even looks like it might happen to infringe on that op fun they are enjoying and people start freaking out. I am not surprised even a little bit.

Honestly people should have seen it coming. The types who bandwagoned over to play thieves because they were considered OP are the types who will jump ship whenever things dont go their way. Its a fact.

Anyhow, hopefully Anet keeps on the path towards reducing this classes strength. It is not fun for the other classes when you can pop out of stealth and burst them down in seconds, or just turn invisible to reset the fight if it doesnt go your way, at which point you get to try again.

One classes enjoyment should not come at the expense of the entire game.

1. Know any class that can constantly block, heal himself, heal others, drop symbols to make light fields, throw out boons like candy that also buffs the user while being tanky and dishing out DPS at the same time? Yea, its called a class mechanic… for thieves this happens to be stealth.

2. Stealth doesnt = invulnarable, the ability to disengage isn’t exclusive to thieves (playing a ranger I’m sure you can vouch for your ability to run away if you want to. Ele’s can still engage/disengage RTL nerf and all, just not as well as before).

Make a thief man. Try leveling him/her. Try going wvw. Go S/D and Spam 3 to your heart’s desire (which will be, exactly 3x before ur dry on initiative and also dead). Then come back and talk, at least you will have a clue what you’re talking about.

Warriors can escape just as easy as any Thief btw. If I Don’t want to die on my Warrior I most likely will not.

If they removed stealth entirely and gave the class a bit more build flexibility I might actually play my thief again.

@ Fritz, thieves eles and guards have the lowest health pool. Of the 3, thieves do not have access to nearly as much heals as guards or eles, and take out stealth we have literally no way of consistant healing.

So what you’re asking is for thieves to either stop playing thieves or for Anet to rework a thief so stealth no longer exists but somehow thieves get more armor/evades/heals. Until that happens, engaging/disengaging fights is how we stand a fighting chance with other classes.

Makes no sense to say “thieves have this, that’s OP!” When you dont factor what thieves do not have. That’s the beauty of this game, its all a give and take.

RedSpectrum.1975:

R.I.P. Shadow refuge…….I miss mesmers swinging me out of it now…..

wait u mean…theres other ways to get pulled from shadow refuge other than arrow carts? other than push skills? other than fears? other than anti-stealth traps? are you saying we can be pulled too? ugh thats horrible. :P hehe

1 v 1 i might entertain the thought that thief is an OP class. however since 1 v 1 is no part of gw2….i fail to recognize the notion. pass and lock the idea plz :P

As a thief, I don’t really need to stealth since I can outrun/catch anyone, except for Mesmers — I am yet to catch me one.

Also, a couple of months ago, the argument was that Stealth is for offensive and how 4s Revealed killed it. Now, Stealth is the only defensive skill we have….

I guess if you build around Stealth, then if that keystone is broken, your whole build crumbles to dust.

But if you build smart, you’ll set up a strong foundation with a lot of supports, so in case one of the support breaks (like no access to Stealth), you are still standing strong.

They are simply responding to players who don’t know how to counter thieves. I watched a video a short while ago where Anet was suggesting that the end-game (principally WvW here) needed to be balanced around absolutely new players who would be frustrated when encountering thieves). Bizarre. But, that is what we are dealing with here. One, I suppose, can try to counter this through trying to shape the memes, but, but I think it’s simpler for me just to not play my thief in WvW. We will always be dealing with the next nerf occasioned by frustrated ‘new’ players.

they dumbed gw2 down from gw1. that is a fact. another fact is that they are business first kind of mentality….money = more players playing gw2. sooooooooo. if people quit b4 they learn how to counteer thieves…which is very possible…they lose potential money. this is the problem. the other problem is nubs on forums complaining and making people thing that 1 v 1 is sooooooooooo important. how about telling new wvw players ‘stay in groups’ or always have a buddy of the whole is larger than its individuals…meaning work with the zerg/guild to help your community/server world. the priorities are entirely in the wrong area….. if i am wrong plz rename the game to hero wars 2. thank you

More people will quit that have there class nerfed over and over, very few people play SPvP releative to how many people play GW2.

Actually in WvW zerg battles both Condition thieves and Support thieves are currently viable options. If you are a power damage thief stick to what you excel at, taking down soft and downed targets fast and then quickly hitting another or retreating.

Condition Thieves: Caltrops and poison spam without even breaking stealth. Caltrops itself is a powerful opener on a zerg or prevents escapes and does pretty nice bleed damage, Poison spam from bow does lowish damage but every heal it affects is the equivalent of extra damage. IE a 6k heal is the equivalent of 2k damage.

Support Thieves: Thrill of the crime, bountiful theft, runes of altruism or dwayna. 10 into shadow arts for Regen on stealthing allies, 30 into trickery for obvious reasons, 30 into acrobatics for additional survivability.

Shortbow for poisons, blast finishers (combo for weakness), and movement, Sword/Dagger for neutering guardians and bunker ele’s, cripple, mobility/condition removal, and daze support. Caltrops for initiating battles and preventing escapes, Shadow Refuge for heal/stealth support, 3rd utility skill of choice (Charr Racial Roar for me).

Dasorine.1964:

Situations where thief is at all strong: Noob stomping WvW roams and Hotjoin PvP

Situations where you don’t see thieves much if at all: High level sPvP play, dedicated zergs in WvW accomplishing what WvW was designed for.

Well thief actually has a HUGE role in wvw many just haven’t figured it out yet.

Pffft. Thieves have no room to talk to Mesmers about WvW nerfs. 50% confusion nerf when it could already be countered by:

• Avoiding the application of confusion
• Condition removal
• Not mindlessly spamming your auto-attack

Even if it was because “the Glamour build was too strong”, it also affects condition mesmers builds (all of them), shatter builds (any that take 15+ in illusions), scepter, torch, etc..

Rastaman.9015:

Dasorine.1964:

Situations where thief is at all strong: Noob stomping WvW roams and Hotjoin PvP

Situations where you don’t see thieves much if at all: High level sPvP play, dedicated zergs in WvW accomplishing what WvW was designed for.

Well thief actually has a HUGE role in wvw many just haven’t figured it out yet.

We all know that role, It’s no secret.

venom share only and blast finishers.

Travlane.5948:

venom share only and blast finishers.

Make sure to hump the Thief, or miss it!

PearlGore.7419:

Travlane.5948:

venom share only and blast finishers.

Make sure to hump the Thief, or miss it!

5 thieves using blast finishers is a lot of bonuses but like you said, a lot of people will be missing out. Not to mention the thief gets the short end of that deal. They aren’t getting to experience any of the fun aspects of wvw, they’re just being their zerg’s boon kittenes. At least when guardians are doing the same thing (without having to rely on anyone else’s fields), they get to be super tanky and walk into the enemy zerg, breaking their lines and making easy targets for those not fast enough to run away.

if they wanna nerf….or make stealth weaker…whatever. BUFFS FIRST!

Increase thief base damage
Increase evades
Halve endurance used per dodge
Increase Hp pool
Increase base toughness
Give us boons
Balance weaponsets
increase sword speed
increase auto attack dmg on pistol

theres some ideas to try before nerfing stealth. or atleast both at the same time.

eh, I’d rather buffs that put us into a good spot. Most of those buffs would turn is into roid monkeys who smash without thinking.

Travlane.5948:

if they wanna nerf….or make stealth weaker…whatever. BUFFS FIRST!

Increase thief base damage
Increase evades
Halve endurance used per dodge
Increase Hp pool
Increase base toughness
Give us boons
Balance weaponsets
increase sword speed
increase auto attack dmg on pistol

theres some ideas to try before nerfing stealth. or atleast both at the same time.

Yes because buffing something into OPness for an eventual nerf is far better than having specific specs being underwhelming but viable until a buff….

(Disclaimer: WvW only)

Feels underwhelming due to being too strong for too long. Still very strong. Will take time for thieves to adjust skill level, play style, and attitude…

Travlane.5948:

if they wanna nerf….or make stealth weaker…whatever. BUFFS FIRST!

Increase thief base damage

Ha, because thief damage is “so low”. In the last state of the game the devs mentioned that thieves are top of burst damage. In the one previous to that they mentioned that they are watching thief damage because it may be too high. They haven’t said this about any other classes.

Travlane.5948:

Increase evades

You have evades on some of your weapons. Blinds as well. You can also use stealth to prevent many attacks from affecting you for a short time and buying yourself time for initiative to regen and utilities to come off cooldown.

Travlane.5948:

Halve endurance used per dodge

Look at your 15 points trait in acrobatics.

Travlane.5948:

Increase Hp pool

Guardians and Elementalists have the same HP pool and are always visible (no stealth). Thieves argue that this works for those classes because they have protection and regen. Thieves, since last patch, can steal 2 boons with a single attack. So what’s the issue here?

Additionally, regen and protection can be corrupted/removes by necros, removed/stolen by mesmers, increase the damage they take from warriors.

Stealth has none of those issues.

Travlane.5948:

Increase base toughness

• Medium armor (thief) gives 7.27% damage reduction.
• Heavy armor (warrior) gives 13.68% damage reduction.

If a 1,000 damage attack hits both:

• Medium armor will take 927.3 damage
• Heavy armor will take 863.2 damage (64.1 less damage)

This is not a big issue and you don’t see Mesmer, Necro, Ranger, nor Engineer making this silly claim.

Travlane.5948:

Give us boons

You have access to boons via some of your traits. You can also use runes. Lastly, you can steal boons from others. The only other class that can do that is Mesmer and it does no damage, is a utility, and is on a long cooldown. Yours is a weapon skill that does good damage and has no cooldown.

Travlane.5948:

Balance weaponsets

What exactly is wrong here? Go actually compare yours to other classes in the context of what each class can/can’t do. This is silly.

Travlane.5948:

increase sword speed

It already does very good damage AND applies cripple+weakness on the 3rd hit. It’s more than fine.

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Sebrent.3625:

Both don’t have problems with a majority of Thieves. I’m not an exception here. Most thieves are rubbish and don’t even understand half the potential of the class.

I’ve been lurking the thief forums quite a bit, and you’re always around countering complaints or encouraging ‘fairness’.

As a collective, your posts are based on the idea that it is perfectly alright (if not too strong???) if someone can play the class right. You also state that most thieves are not good.

I don’t think it is a difficult link to create.

Other classes are easier to play well. Is that ‘fair’?

Actually in the last Sotg the devs stated that they were looking to possibly up thief base damage in return for lowered burst. We got the burst nerf. but no compensation. As far as thieves have the too high damage, we HAD very good burst, and still have fairly good burst, but our sustained damage has and is at the bottom. some of the lowest base skill damage of all classes

Sebrent.3625:

Travlane.5948:

if they wanna nerf….or make stealth weaker…whatever. BUFFS FIRST!

Increase thief base damage

Ha, because thief damage is “so low”. In the last state of the game the devs mentioned that thieves are top of burst damage. In the one previous to that they mentioned that they are watching thief damage because it may be too high. They haven’t said this about any other classes.

lol, you really have no idea what you’re talking about here. Thief is 3rd highest burst. We used to have 2nd highest but with the mug nerf, we are now beat out by warrior and mesmer. Ele is also pretty comparable to our spike. They are actually looking to buff thief base damage because other classes already beat thief single target damage. While the thief is only hitting 1, the people beating our dps are hitting 3-5.

The rest of your points have merit but this one is just completely wrong.

Isn’t a profession/build OP when it can basically destroy every other profession/build or at least never die to someone else (bunker vs bunker) 1v1 easily? E.g. bunker ranger?

Where is the fairness in an spvp game where the thief can only kill select profs but the ranger can kill all profs? How does a thief actually CAPTURE any points when it gets chased off and must run from the ranger? What happens if there are…gasp…TWO such rangers/etc. bunker builds that thief simply has no counter to, cannot possibly win against, etc.? Why then the thief becomes completely frigging USELESS.

So why does anet continue to leave thief without any effective way to counter so many professions/builds (bunk ranger, any mesmer, d/d ele, retal guard)?…NO counters? None at all? Why does Thief get singled out for this? Warrior has never had it good but they are sort-of on the right track towards improvement…and war at least has massive PVE damage to make up for crappy pvp. Thief has bad pve and now bad pvp.

Fix. Thief. Damage. That’s all thief needs. Damage. No more HP, no more armor, no more anything else…just damage.

What in the world are you guys basing those rankings on?

Here is the latest state of the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pn_t43Xd18

They mention Thief is top burst and that the plan is to keep thief as top burst.

If you’re going to make a claim, back it up. Otherwise you’re just “running your mouth”.

Thief damage is far from bad. Look at how hard dagger hits. Not as hard as the skills that hits once every 0.5 seconds … but it hits every 0.25 seconds. And it doesn’t hit for 50% of the damage of those other hits. Do the math. The dagger does more.

You need to realize/learn that while 1,000 is a “big number” 750 + 750 is a bigger number.

As far as “no counters” … really?! … you were just given a way to not only remove boons, but steal boons … and not just one … but two.

What do most bunkers rely on? Regen + Protection. What are those? Boons. What did they just give you the ability to steal? Boons.

Oh yeah, there’s also the fact that a bunker is one of the harder fights for your basic thief. Oh no, someone who you can run away from is your hardest fight. Go complain on the necromancer forums about how you can pick and choose your fights and that bunkers are your weakness and see what they say.

Thief has the ability to beat anyone, especially now that you can not only remove boons, but steal them. Now, if you’re not taking the trait to steal boons on actual use of steal and not using sword + dagger as one of your two weapon sets, there isn’t much I can do to help you other than tell you to go stand over there with people who use Ranger longbow auto-attack while in melee range.

Sebrent.3625:

Thief damage is far from bad.

only if you stay within 130 range. for that, we have the lowest hp pool in da game

@ serbrent

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-vs-Warrior-dmg-what-bugs-me/page/2#post1976991
Read through the post, it should show you the truth about thief burst.

Check out the 20k crits on lvl 80s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

The mesmer vid is a bit outdated but still relevant. The burst still blows thief out of the water. I did the numbers according to that vid, they can hit 34k burst combo.

Please do some research next time before arguing. Thief max burst is 13k now (if the heavens are aligning the starts for you). Our burst is also only on a single target where as mesmer and warrior both are aoe (rifle is line aoe and 1200-1500 range). In the time it takes to get the mes/warrior combo off, thief can get theirs off + 1hs.