Guild Wars 2

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

swinsk.6410:

HS is fine rofl

I dont like clones exploding on me, can we nerf that too?

I hate getting BS and HB b warriors, lets nerf that too..

L2p!

You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…

Yea it’s so OP I can get any HS spam thief to blow their entire init pool using by using 1 evade and 1 utility. They start heart-seeker spam, evade once, shadow-step away, they come flying at you, shadow return, they come flying back and land somewhere near you with zero init. So OP man, so OP.

Other profs have other tools that can accomplish the same exact thing. L2P.

The issue isn’t about fighting HS spamming thieves. The issue is that HS is a spammable gap closer with lower intiative cost and a leap finisher while doing med-high damage.

Think about how HS is used in D/P build then come back and talk or how other classes would love to have so many leap finishers.

Yea just thought about it. It’s D/P’s access to stealth. So what? They can stack it up making build sacrifices. I still don’t see the problem.

It’s also not very often HS is all those thing you mention (Someone spam HS and on it’s third one it hits through a combo field on someone at <50% health). Yea it’s one or two when you use it but that’s the nature of a game that allows for flexibility in it’s abilities. Most abilities serve at least two purposes depending on the situation.

Initiative is part of the Thieves design and what makes the profession unique. They are meant to be able spam while at the same time dealing with resource management.

You don’t see a problem with HS costing 1 initiative for access to 4 more sec of stealth while somewhat ignoring the need to manage init?

Sifu.6527:

You don’t see a problem with HS costing 1 initiative for access to 4 more sec of stealth while somewhat ignoring the need to manage init?

I could see myself thinking it was overpowered if what you were saying was true. Do you think black powder is free of initiative cost? Because HS won’t do what you propose without a stealth field.

Sifu.6527:

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

swinsk.6410:

HS is fine rofl

I dont like clones exploding on me, can we nerf that too?

I hate getting BS and HB b warriors, lets nerf that too..

L2p!

You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…

Yea it’s so OP I can get any HS spam thief to blow their entire init pool using by using 1 evade and 1 utility. They start heart-seeker spam, evade once, shadow-step away, they come flying at you, shadow return, they come flying back and land somewhere near you with zero init. So OP man, so OP.

Other profs have other tools that can accomplish the same exact thing. L2P.

The issue isn’t about fighting HS spamming thieves. The issue is that HS is a spammable gap closer with lower intiative cost and a leap finisher while doing med-high damage.

Think about how HS is used in D/P build then come back and talk or how other classes would love to have so many leap finishers.

Yea just thought about it. It’s D/P’s access to stealth. So what? They can stack it up making build sacrifices. I still don’t see the problem.

It’s also not very often HS is all those thing you mention (Someone spam HS and on it’s third one it hits through a combo field on someone at <50% health). Yea it’s one or two when you use it but that’s the nature of a game that allows for flexibility in it’s abilities. Most abilities serve at least two purposes depending on the situation.

Initiative is part of the Thieves design and what makes the profession unique. They are meant to be able spam while at the same time dealing with resource management.

You don’t see a problem with HS costing 1 initiative for access to 4 more sec of stealth while somewhat ignoring the need to manage init?

And the leap finisher needs 6 initiatives from black powder. So for the acces to 4 more sec of stealth requires 7 initiatives … If he would use Smoke Screen (utility), then yes it’ll only cost 1 ini, but he’ll need an utility for it.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Sifu.6527:

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

swinsk.6410:

HS is fine rofl

I dont like clones exploding on me, can we nerf that too?

I hate getting BS and HB b warriors, lets nerf that too..

L2p!

You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…

Yea it’s so OP I can get any HS spam thief to blow their entire init pool using by using 1 evade and 1 utility. They start heart-seeker spam, evade once, shadow-step away, they come flying at you, shadow return, they come flying back and land somewhere near you with zero init. So OP man, so OP.

Other profs have other tools that can accomplish the same exact thing. L2P.

The issue isn’t about fighting HS spamming thieves. The issue is that HS is a spammable gap closer with lower intiative cost and a leap finisher while doing med-high damage.

Think about how HS is used in D/P build then come back and talk or how other classes would love to have so many leap finishers.

Yea just thought about it. It’s D/P’s access to stealth. So what? They can stack it up making build sacrifices. I still don’t see the problem.

It’s also not very often HS is all those thing you mention (Someone spam HS and on it’s third one it hits through a combo field on someone at <50% health). Yea it’s one or two when you use it but that’s the nature of a game that allows for flexibility in it’s abilities. Most abilities serve at least two purposes depending on the situation.

Initiative is part of the Thieves design and what makes the profession unique. They are meant to be able spam while at the same time dealing with resource management.

You don’t see a problem with HS costing 1 initiative for access to 4 more sec of stealth while somewhat ignoring the need to manage init?

And the leap finisher needs 6 initiatives. So for the acces to 4 more sec of stealth requires 7 initiatives … If he would use Smoke Screen (utility), then yes it’ll only cost 1 ini, but he’ll need an utility for it.

Initiative needs to be faster then.

Harbinger.9645:

Sifu.6527:

You don’t see a problem with HS costing 1 initiative for access to 4 more sec of stealth while somewhat ignoring the need to manage init?

I could see myself thinking it was overpowered if what you were saying was true. Do you think black powder is free of initiative cost? Because HS won’t do what you propose without a stealth field.

BP is not free and you need it for the 1st HS.

However, it only cost 1 init for each 2nd and 3rd HS to stack stealth.

I would agree with you that this is not OP if you have to cast BP each time but you don’t…

Something costing a certain amount and then receiving a refund is different from a lower initial cost. At that point too, the thief wouldn’t be closing gaps or attacking, they would be focusing on maintaining stealth.

Maugetarr.6823:

Something costing a certain amount and then receiving a refund is different from a lower initial cost. At that point too, the thief wouldn’t be closing gaps or attacking, they would be focusing on maintaining stealth.

This.

The problem I see with Heartseeker more has to do with the difficulties in regards to actually being able to Backstab players in PvP.

When I cloak and dagger people (even with 50% run speed in stealth) I find it very hard to get behind people and land a backstab because they either dodge roll, they just out run me, or I get cc’d or some crap.

Heartseeker is just so efficient because it moves you to your target.

ComeAndSee.1356:

The problem I see with Heartseeker more has to do with the difficulties in regards to actually being able to Backstab players in PvP.

When I cloak and dagger people (even with 50% run speed in stealth) I find it very hard to get behind people and land a backstab because they either dodge roll, they just out run me, or I get cc’d or some crap.

Heartseeker is just so efficient because it moves you to your target.

And then you run out of initiative and die. Good game.

Sifu.6527:

You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…

The issue isn’t about fighting HS spamming thieves. The issue is that HS is a spammable gap closer with lower intiative cost and a leap finisher while doing med-high damage.

Think about how HS is used in D/P build then come back and talk or how other classes would love to have so many leap finishers.

Your complaining that we can use heartseeker to close gaps and stealth while in a smoke field? I’m sure guardians or warriors would love to any ability that was spammable but they don’t. That’s how ANet made the game. We have init and all our abilities are spamable.

Thieves who spam HS are bad and it’s easy to avoid unless you are already below 50 percent.

I’m still failing to see what the problem here is. Who cares that thieves can use it to stealth. It cost 5 init to drop the field and another 3 to stealth. 8 init to stealth, assuming you have infusion, then 6 init, which is still a lot.

so if spamming it’s so useless, why are people arguing against preventing the ability to spam it?

Make it cost more initiative and then give it a function to return initiative (Or flat out reduce the price, if possible) when used on targets with lower % hp

Columba.9730:

so if spamming it’s so useless, why are people arguing against preventing the ability to spam it?

Becouse it would lose its function as mobility tool. They might remove its damage alltogether and it wouldnt hurt thieves that know what they do, only HS spammers like urself would die out.

What the? This is still an issue for people?

I thought people stopped spamming HS months ago, I never see it anymore. Must be a few nooby thieves out there that think it’s effective.

LOCO.1785:

What the? This is still an issue for people?

I thought people stopped spamming HS months ago, I never see it anymore. Must be a few nooby thieves out there that think it’s effective.

Dunno man… latelly its becoming more popular, even with D/P which should exclude HS spam at all if not in smoke field, I think its these QQ topics fault, it makes ppl believe they can actually kill someone with HS ! Honestly, I see little asuras flying all over my screen ! And then I kill them . Does that make me a bad person ?

I don’t think heart-seeker is as overpowered as people make it out to be. (I’m a guardian)
I don’t usually have to take more than 1 heart-seeker before I block, dodge, blind or knock them back. It wouldn’t hurt if its damage got reduced just a bit but as some1 said before: “thief is only OP against inexperienced players.” I enjoy dueling thieves because it’s thrilling. I know that if I can catch him with the ring of warding: I win. If they get 1 or 2 of their bursts in: they win. Thieves are usually very lightly built and thus can be destroyed with couple of well aimed MBs or WWs.

I shelved my thief due to the boring nature of the mechanics on a D/D thief. It’s pretty much 5+Steal, 1,2,2,2,5,1,2,2,2,2…. They should adjust the damage and initiative cost but give us an evade effect when cast. 4 Initiative. Does 550 damage <30% and 150 damage >30%. You can still use it for a gap closer and still hits like a truck on targets with less than 30% health (typically all you would need is it to land once or twice).

Regardless of how this is fixed, it needs to be adjusted. 4-5 initiative cost and adjust the damage or health percentages.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I shelved my thief due to the boring nature of the mechanics on a D/D thief. It’s pretty much 5+Steal, 1,2,2,2,5,1,2,2,2,2…. They should adjust the damage and initiative cost but give us an evade effect when cast. 4 Initiative. Does 550 damage <30% and 150 damage >30%. You can still use it for a gap closer and still hits like a truck on targets with less than 30% health (typically all you would need is it to land once or twice).

Regardless of how this is fixed, it needs to be adjusted. 4-5 initiative cost and adjust the damage or health percentages.

So you have 20-30 initiative ? kitten how do i get it ?

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I shelved my thief due to the boring nature of the mechanics on a D/D thief. It’s pretty much 5+Steal, 1,2,2,2,5,1,2,2,2,2…. They should adjust the damage and initiative cost but give us an evade effect when cast. 4 Initiative. Does 550 damage <30% and 150 damage >30%. You can still use it for a gap closer and still hits like a truck on targets with less than 30% health (typically all you would need is it to land once or twice).

Regardless of how this is fixed, it needs to be adjusted. 4-5 initiative cost and adjust the damage or health percentages.

“Borig nature on a D/D thief” = Shelve the thief
What about other builds? 5-1-2-2-… is indeed a boring combo, but whoever told you, you had to spam heartseeker to be succesful? I like running S/D and D/D setup, playing around with switching my sets during combat to confuse my enemy whether i’ll be dealing massive dmg or daze-locking him.
Recently changed to S/P and D/D setup .. not sure if I like it or not ..

the thief HS build, is basically the new faceroll build
(hot from the oven)

Spamming heartseeker is useless in 1vs1. But its far from useless in larger WvW battles to finish enemies. Just pick a target at 50% health and spam heartseeker until he dies. Its easy and efficient.

Its the only spamable gap closer in the entire game. 6 x heartseeker = 2700 range. thats almost double the range of eles RTL. Its the reason you cannot kite away from thiefs.

Again: Heartseeker is ok for 1vs1 but its entirely broken for larger WvW battles.

teg.1340:

Spamming heartseeker is useless in 1vs1. But its far from useless in larger WvW battles to finish enemies. Just pick a target at 50% health and spam heartseeker until he dies. Its easy and efficient.

Its the only spamable gap closer in the entire game. 6 x heartseeker = 2700 range. thats almost double the range of eles RTL. Its the reason you cannot kite away from thiefs.

Again: Heartseeker is ok for 1vs1 but its entirely broken for larger WvW battles.

So, if it is not useless only in one specific situation, let’s nerf it so it is useless in all of them?

HS spammers in larger battles are easy rallys for the other team.

When I do feel like doing this in large battles, I just log on my ranger and rapid fire for 6-10k from 1500 range every 10s or so while out of the scrum and safe from most everything.

Thieves do need HS though, it makes it harder for the good thieves to solo more than 2 or 3 of them.

brunohstein.9038:

teg.1340:

Spamming heartseeker is useless in 1vs1. But its far from useless in larger WvW battles to finish enemies. Just pick a target at 50% health and spam heartseeker until he dies. Its easy and efficient.

Its the only spamable gap closer in the entire game. 6 x heartseeker = 2700 range. thats almost double the range of eles RTL. Its the reason you cannot kite away from thiefs.

Again: Heartseeker is ok for 1vs1 but its entirely broken for larger WvW battles.

So, if it is not useless only in one specific situation, let’s nerf it so it is useless in all of them?

No. Just bring Heartseekers gap closer on par to all the other gap closers in the game. It could be easily fixed by putting a 8s cooldown only to the leap effect of heartseeker. This would prevent abusing heartseeker just to close gaps. Make this a WvW only change. Problem fixed.

Thieves in these forums are claiming for month that only noobs spam heartseeker like that. If this is true, the proposed change could hardly be called a nerf.

teg.1340:

Spamming heartseeker is useless in 1vs1. But its far from useless in larger WvW battles to finish enemies. Just pick a target at 50% health and spam heartseeker until he dies. Its easy and efficient.

So is a 1500 range kill shot. So what? Everything is OP when your target is outnumbered or distracted and at 50% health.

Anyone who complains about heartseeker is months behind the PvP curve in this game. I feel the pain for new players but I don’t think the game should be balanced around them. They should strive to get better.

teg.1340:

brunohstein.9038:

teg.1340:

Spamming heartseeker is useless in 1vs1. But its far from useless in larger WvW battles to finish enemies. Just pick a target at 50% health and spam heartseeker until he dies. Its easy and efficient.

Its the only spamable gap closer in the entire game. 6 x heartseeker = 2700 range. thats almost double the range of eles RTL. Its the reason you cannot kite away from thiefs.

Again: Heartseeker is ok for 1vs1 but its entirely broken for larger WvW battles.

So, if it is not useless only in one specific situation, let’s nerf it so it is useless in all of them?

No. Just bring Heartseekers gap closer on par to all the other gap closers in the game. It could be easily fixed by putting a 8s cooldown only to the leap effect of heartseeker. This would prevent abusing heartseeker just to close gaps. Make this a WvW only change. Problem fixed.

Thieves in these forums are claiming for month that only noobs spam heartseeker like that. If this is true, the proposed change could hardly be called a nerf.

Hmm 8 sec cooldown on heartseeker so what your saying is it would force theives to commit to using it. So we get 1 heartseeker every 8 secs rofl ok.. Or maybe you suggestion is we get say 3 heartseekers every 8 secs as soon as you stop pressing 2 it goes on cooldown? Yea you didnt think this suggestion through at all obvious.

Or maybe your suggestion is like you said the gap closer portion rofl. Sooo now we have to run up to the person and then heartseeker yea thats totally makin heartseeker useless or everyone is gonna have to be forced to run devourer venom for immobilize just to land it.

Heartseeker is easy to dodge

I’m seeing a lot of posts saying stupid things like “I only have 2 evades and HS can be spammed 7+ times, QQ and QQ!”

Seriously? This is a huge L2P issue.

Use an evade to dodge out of the initial burst, then pop a defensive or mobility ability to get away from the thief or mitigate his damage. You still have a dodge left and whatever endurance regenerated since then. Even if the thief has haste and assassin signet he will not be able to kill you quickly enough for you not to react. All it takes is a quick reaction. Similar to when a warrior uses bull charge, frenzy, hb on a thief. You need to break that stun immediately or you die. Is HB over powered? Not really.

Thieves have to use a combination of skills to stay on top of a target like shadowstep, steal, hs, dancing dagger, and sometimes some good dodges. There are many bad players out there who just spam HS and many bad players who just stand there and take it.

ANet will never balance this game around kittens IMO. When you have two good players vs. each other HS is never the “omg i just got wtfkittened” button you make it out to be.

swinsk.6410:

I’m seeing a lot of posts saying stupid things like “I only have 2 evades and HS can be spammed 7+ times, QQ and QQ!”

Seriously? This is a huge L2P issue.

Use an evade to dodge out of the initial burst, then pop a defensive or mobility ability to get away from the thief or mitigate his damage. You still have a dodge left and whatever endurance regenerated since then. Even if the thief has haste and assassin signet he will not be able to kill you quickly enough for you not to react. All it takes is a quick reaction. Similar to when a warrior uses bull charge, frenzy, hb on a thief. You need to break that stun immediately or you die. Is HB over powered? Not really.

Thieves have to use a combination of skills to stay on top of a target like shadowstep, steal, hs, dancing dagger, and sometimes some good dodges. There are many bad players out there who just spam HS and many bad players who just stand there and take it.

ANet will never balance this game around kittens IMO. When you have two good players vs. each other HS is never the “omg i just got wtfkittened” button you make it out to be.

This is a large problem with this game’s identity actually. Guild wars was traditionally a PvP franchise and I don’t think that was suppose to change. They always said they were shooting for e-sport. It has many twitch elements which IMO makes it great however it causes many traditional MMO style players to just never be able to compete in certain cases.

My older brother for instance. He loved WoW, he could even PvP a bit in it (no chance at Arena) but he can’t play FPS games and has very bad twitch. He cannot PvP in this game at all on the small scale. He just can’t get a handle on evade timing or stun breaking. So he just doesn’t WvW because of it. PvP in this game does not have a low enough skill-cap for a large majority of players. These are the bulk of your zerglings.

WvW is designed to entice PvE players into PvP zones. They are protected by anonymity and have PvE objectives everywhere. These players get killed and spout off ridiculous suggestions we have all seen over and over. In the end, no one wants to hear that their reaction times just aren’t up to par for a game they enjoy so it just becomes this huge insult to them. It may not be a L2P issue, It could simply be physical limitations. You can’t really learn reaction times.

You’re an ele, if he’s hitting you with heartseeker at 100% just out damage him, do a KD and burst him. Hell, you can just burst him while he’s hitting you and kill him.

wow i cant believe the noobs on this first of all if you cant survive hs spam just uninstall and quit the game already and 2nd if your a thief in pvp using d/d your playing your class wrong cause any “GOOD” condition user will eat you alive

but yes hs needs a nerf to its 25%+ damage so idiots will stop spaming it thinking they can win when actually they are just killing people more idiotic then themselves

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