Guild Wars 2

I am kind of new to Daredevil. Kind of in the sense that 2+ years ago I leveled one to 80 and stopped to work on other toons. About a month ago I obtained and started using daredevil. I’m not a fan of SB but I always loved P/P as a ranged option. I run part valk/zerker/marauders. I am having issues deciding between Sword Pistol or Sword Dagger.

One note, I am using all stealth utilities so the added stealth from dagger 5 would synergize well and still help with stealth stomps and the evade on sword 3 would help. Cripple on 4 can be useful. On the other hand, Pistol-whip is awesome (but a bit slow to warm up imo..) and a quick interrupt on pistol 4. I use the pistol 5 for safe stomp or if i’m fighting npc’s to stand on top of.

Essentially it boils down to the 3/4/5 skills…evade vs stun (or daze…whatever), ranged cripple vs ranged daze and stealth vs blind (I obv dont blast the field)

Things to note:

Most of my init typically goes to the typical P/P unload and the stealth pistol auto attack (one reason I love stealth…init free unload w/ bleed).

I try to stealth as often I can to position myself for my auto attack on pistol

Typically use pistols when ranged, sword when not, but either im not good at landing pistol whip or it can be easily dodged (aside from when someone is ressing, free pistolwhip hits, so it only helps when I shadow step then use it or when I catch someone ressing)

I believe the cripple will help better when chasing someone at the cost of an interrupt (when I can time it right)

That field tho on #5 saved me from being interrupted when stomping, but that stealth to get another pistol auto is brutal.

This is my dilemma and reasoning. I run SA/TR/DD. What are your opinions? (I also run this in WvW and sort of in PvP but with a different stat set as I cant combine stats like I can in WvW)

I appreciate any positive feedback.

Ok, I’ll provide a few thoughts on S/P vs S/D, and then then some thoughts on the rest of your build.

Dual skills (skill 3):
S/P 3 is highly telegraphed and roots you. Even if you stun/immob, good players rarely take full damage from this skill. It can function in team fights where people aren’t paying much attention, but that is not where you should be as a thief most of the time. S/D 3 is great for duels. Winner S/D.

Skill 4:
S/D 4 is a complete waste of initiative. Use S 2 to chase, steal, dash etc. Dancing Dagger is possibly the worst thief weapon skill. S/P 4 is a ranged, on demand interrupt. One of our best skills when used properly. Winner S/P.

Skill 5:
S/P 5 is a smoke field, which could combo with Bound for stealth. If you run Dash, it isn’t that great, especially since it eats init you could use for skills 2 or 3. S/D 5 is stealth and decent damage, though somewhat telegraphed. Useful, but again, 2 and 3 is where it’s at and you should be running S/D as a dodge build, not stealth. Winner, meh.

General:
If you are running Impacting Disruption in the DD line, S/P is great because the stealth skill, 3 and 4 all stun/daze. Your play should revolve more around timely interrupts than trying to burn down with pistol whip. You can still interrupt when on P/P as well, so that may be a good bet.

S/D is a great duelling set, but I’m not too sure if you’re just running it as an alternate to P/P. It may not be the best choice. You should try out both and see what style you like though. They’re very different.

Other Build Thoughts:
You are running pure power on P/P, which is fine. You are also running maximum stealth, which is confusing. With DD, you should have plenty of dodges to use that as a primary defense tactic. The main benefit of stealth with P/X is the bleeds, which would be good on a condi or hybrid setup. You would be much better off with some extra stun breakers, SoA, etc. than running full stealth utils and SA.

If you like P/P and want to make the most of sneak attack, perhaps you should try a hybrid build. If you do run hybrid, you could take Pressure Striking and S/P would still do alright, but otherwise I’d choose something other than Sword.

Finally, P/P is fine on it’s own. You really don’t need an alternate damage set. Running S/P or S/D alt is a bit useless if you use all of your init on Unload. If you swap, you’re then at range with a melee weapon and no good options. That’s why most thieves run SB alternate, for the utility. You may not love the weapon itself, but you can’t say you don’t love a 900 range teleport on demand.

That’s a good breakdown. I don’t necessarily spam Unload due the pistols auto while in stealth (may hit unload once or twice, but leaving init for other stuff). I understand about the utility of SB but I am running Dash and that with my stealths I have no problem disengaging or getting from one place to the next. I don’t go with SB on top of P/P due to the amount of reflects I have been seeing in WvW. 2 ranged weps and I will be useless. I have been debating staff as well as the staff auto in stealth is a knockdown, however pistol in the offhand provides usefulness, but as I mentioned (and yourself) both S/D and S/P both have ups and downs.

I did try a more interrupt type build but due to my playstyle, I couldn’t make it work for myself.

I appreciate the detailed opinion.

You could run S/D as the mobile part of your set and have an alternate way to stealth via CnD. It’d offer your more sustained damage while P/P could handle your burst. If you use EA with Dash then you shed condis really well and you become hard to hit due to the blinds from pistol and the evades from sword dagger 3 augmenting the damage mitigation DD offers you. Plus take into account if you are careful with when you swap weapons you will never be without the utility you need. P/P will still have your interrupts and S/D would have cripple for you to catch people with.

I’d break it down but Zodryn hit it hard and I’d rather not make a copy paste response for you to waste your time on so I just threw some points up there as food for thought. Good luck with the build!

you should allways use shortbow. no matter wat. if you want to stick to p/p i’d still suggest to use shortbow.
shortbow synergises with all the weapon sets even with p/p. need stealth? bp → cluster. sb5 is the best positioning tool. clusterbomb is a decent melle skill if you find yourself in close combat. SB basicly gives you the evades, melle pressure, blast, movement you lack on p/p. you use lot of stealth??? the better! sb immob to unload is decent pressure.

S/P power is often overlooked only because Pistol Whip roots you. However if you practice with the weapon set, you’ll find that it is very rewarding. What you need to use when running S/P is DA/Trick/DD only because DA and S/P has a very nice synergy.

With S/P, you should only use PW to finish of your opponent. Infiltrator’s Strike is good enough to apply and continue the pressure on your target. Once your target drops to 50% health, that’s when you finish them off with PW because with DA, you’ll trigger Panic Strike that will root them for 2.5s — eating every hit from PW boosted by Executioner — twice.

Playing S/P depends on how well can you force your target to waste their dodges and cleanses. The weakness application from Weakening Strikes and Lotus Poison should keep your target endurance starved. I would suggest opting on CC utility skills rather than stealth just to apply a continuous pressure to your target.

I would suggest with Trickster trait Withdraw for heal/cleanse/evade and Scorp Wire for a point blank interrupt/pull/cleanse on a 16s CD. Fist Flurry/Palm Strike for a 2s Stun which is easy to pull off with Sword #2. Then Bandit’s Defense for a low CD stunbreak/block/knockdown. For the Elite Skill, I would suggest Basilisk. With your current gear, this should work out just fine.

With the utility skills I’ve suggested, you can continue to apply pressure while conserving initiatives for the final half. Don’t waste initiatives on PWs that will never fully hit. Headshot is a tempting skill to use as interrupt, but at melee range, Scorp Wire can save you 4 initiatives wit the same level of efficiency.

As for S/D, in my opinion it’s not worth it anymore. The cost of using that weaponset doens’t make any sense. It’s too costly for a mediocre reward. P/P will not work with the build I’ve suggested since you’ll need CS to make P/P work to an acceptable level. SB is still the best when it comes to cheap shadowstep.

TL;DR
Don’t spam PW.

D/P has no wasted skills and has built in stealth and mobility. S/P hits the hardest and comes with some decent condi removal. S/D is in a horrible state right now.

Does sword hit hardest? Backstab of dagger hits hard. Can you explain the rotation with s/p?

What about casting times: dagger 1 seems to have no casting time, but sword 1 has. This was the reason why I switched from sword to dagger.

If you like to roam or duel with sp in wvw this build is pretty fun and works well in small fights

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAsansMBFmidmCmOB8Phlriae6z+v3bDygPobBmuAA-T1xaABwo+DAKB3Y/BJ0DMryPSfAAleCACAgAsz6MAO6RP6RP6Rbn78o78o7sUAmLzC-w

I usually camp sp so the 2nd set can be w/e you like, so you can toss in pp in there and it’ll still work.

If your bad with timing interrupts, this build got interrupts for days and if you get better at timing it, even better for this build

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If you like to roam or duel with sp in wvw this build is pretty fun and works well in small fights

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAsansMBFmidmCmOB8Phlriae6z+v3bDygPobBmuAA-T1xaABwo+DAKB3Y/BJ0DMryPSfAAleCACAgAsz6MAO6RP6RP6Rbn78o78o7sUAmLzC-w

I usually camp sp so the 2nd set can be w/e you like, so you can toss in pp in there and it’ll still work.

If your bad with timing interrupts, this build got interrupts for days and if you get better at timing it, even better for this build

You get 16s of swiftness every dodge. You are using traveler runes.

Why?

Zodryn.4216:

Loading.4503:

If you like to roam or duel with sp in wvw this build is pretty fun and works well in small fights

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAsansMBFmidmCmOB8Phlriae6z+v3bDygPobBmuAA-T1xaABwo+DAKB3Y/BJ0DMryPSfAAleCACAgAsz6MAO6RP6RP6Rbn78o78o7sUAmLzC-w

I usually camp sp so the 2nd set can be w/e you like, so you can toss in pp in there and it’ll still work.

If your bad with timing interrupts, this build got interrupts for days and if you get better at timing it, even better for this build

You get 16s of swiftness every dodge. You are using traveler runes.

Why?

Oops , meant to pick runes of leadership, was using the build editor on my phone so the text was small

Loading.4503:

Oops , meant to pick runes of leadership, was using the build editor on my phone so the text was small

That makes more sense. Though you basically have perma vigor, regen, and swiftness already, so the only things that benefits from the 30% boon duration are fury on steal and stolen boons…is it worth the loss in stats? At least if you’ve got P/P on swap you’ll get more might uptime on unload I guess.

Def lots of things to consider here guys, I appreciate it. Please keep the suggestions coming.

One note, P/P is a must and I haven’t had as much fun as running SA/TR/DD on my toon as anything else. Very trolly and, aside from fighting zerkers and chronomancers, been having better luck even in 2v1 scenarios. I have tried D/D and it was interesting (backstab/CaD and the evade) I find that pistol in the offhand better due to the blind field and quick daze. PW is pretty slow to start and does root but hits hard. Shadow shot I like but I rarely use heartseeker. Poison on auto dagger helps with healy builds but sword offers the extra condi cleanse and I believe does extra damage overall.

TLDR version;

P/P is a must and SA as well
No SB however

Pelto.9364:

Does sword hit hardest? Backstab of dagger hits hard. Can you explain the rotation with s/p?

There’s no such thing as “rotation” in WvW since you’re constantly on the move. Rather it’s about using the skill you have in a given situation.

What about casting times: dagger 1 seems to have no casting time, but sword 1 has. This was the reason why I switched from sword to dagger.

There’s not a doubt that is a fact. If you want fast attacking weapon, surely Dagger is a fit for your playstyle. For those who want to learn using S/P, you can’t really make that kind of comparison since each weapon set functions very different from the other. S/P has access to 3 interrupts (1 from stealth, 1 from PW, and 1 from Headshot) while Dagger weapon set has one from D/P. With DD’s Impacting Disruption, these interrupts are sources of high damage, but you have to be a skilled S/P user to pull it off.