Guild Wars 2

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

The last thing I’m worried about in an attrition based character is how much direct damage I’m doing. My entire goal is to outlive the opponent. Having the 3k armor allows me to survive virtually everything. I don’t care how long a fight takes.

You claim that having the extra power saves 3-4% of my HP a fight as if thats significant. 3-4% of the 21,800 (buffed) HP I have is 654. Which is right around the low number you’re complaining about. Any character that utilizes power as a stat ALWAYS shoots for somewhere around 2000 power and you won’t be anywhere near that even adding in the extra 230ish from carrion.

Here’s another suggestion, something that I tried and liked. Run a full set of Runes of Scavenging:

(1): +28 Condition Damage
(2): 5% chance when hit to cause your next attack to steal health. (Cooldown: 15s)
(3): +55 Condition Damage
(4): After using your healing skill, your next attack skill steals health.
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): 7% of vitality becomes condition damage.

Run sigils of Leeching with this set, and you have some decent healing, some of which would be on tap with a weapon swap, or a heal. The sigil does 975 healing and the same in damage to your target.

The 5% chance seemed higher than 5% and I noticed it triggering a decent amount.

I was using that rune set prior to swapping over to Traveler runes. I liked it a lot. It wasn’t flashy like Perplexity runes, but it was handy.

Fade.7658:

Here’s another suggestion, something that I tried and liked. Run a full set of Runes of Scavenging:

(1): +28 Condition Damage
(2): 5% chance when hit to cause your next attack to steal health. (Cooldown: 15s)
(3): +55 Condition Damage
(4): After using your healing skill, your next attack skill steals health.
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): 7% of vitality becomes condition damage.

Run sigils of Leeching with this set, and you have some decent healing, some of which would be on tap with a weapon swap, or a heal. The sigil does 975 healing and the same in damage to your target.

The 5% chance seemed higher than 5% and I noticed it triggering a decent amount.

I was using that rune set prior to swapping over to Traveler runes. I liked it a lot. It wasn’t flashy like Perplexity runes, but it was handy.

so does it just instantly stealth u when u steal it or is it in ur steal skill waiting for u to use it, because if it just happens then i would hate this signet. I like to manage my reveal properly after attack and random stealth could mess it up and get me killed lol

Travlane.5948:

right. but dire runes? u mean gear i think right? dire issuch a hit to your power. its basically cutting direct dmg in half or more. …

Sneak Attack is doing most of the damage with bleeds. Power will fuel C&D’s direct damage (which incidentally is used almost as often as Sneak Attack) so you’ll have to weigh that against the extra toughness.

Still, P/D works with Power-Crit in PvE – at least for playing around with the playstyle – so maybe a Power/Condi build works in PvE. Would at least give a decent Cluster Bomb.

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

frans.8092:

Travlane.5948:

right. but dire runes? u mean gear i think right? dire issuch a hit to your power. its basically cutting direct dmg in half or more. …

Sneak Attack is doing most of the damage with bleeds. Power will fuel C&D’s direct damage (which incidentally is used almost as often as Sneak Attack) so you’ll have to weigh that against the extra toughness.

Still, P/D works with Power-Crit in PvE – at least for playing around with the playstyle – so maybe a Power/Condi build works in PvE. Would at least give a decent Cluster Bomb.

right. between CND and SNEAK ATTACK there is an extra 1200 dmg roughly. i cant see trading 1200 dmg every 5 seconds for -30 dmg from opponents incoming per hit. just doesnt seem worth it to me when defense is already super high.

thats if they aren’t dropping those condi in a second like most classes do now a days thats why i didnt go into duration because everyone has a crap load of condi removal in there builds

even so its why power is important.

imma have to try out carrion set to see which one works better thnx for the input its given me some new ideas

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

There isnt a single build type out there that I struggle with while using dire. I’m sorry, but your direct damage is lackluster with carrion. Period. 30hp per hit? Quit using made up numbers as a source of validity.

irishking.8956:

Fade.7658:

Here’s another suggestion, something that I tried and liked. Run a full set of Runes of Scavenging:

(1): +28 Condition Damage
(2): 5% chance when hit to cause your next attack to steal health. (Cooldown: 15s)
(3): +55 Condition Damage
(4): After using your healing skill, your next attack skill steals health.
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): 7% of vitality becomes condition damage.

Run sigils of Leeching with this set, and you have some decent healing, some of which would be on tap with a weapon swap, or a heal. The sigil does 975 healing and the same in damage to your target.

The 5% chance seemed higher than 5% and I noticed it triggering a decent amount.

I was using that rune set prior to swapping over to Traveler runes. I liked it a lot. It wasn’t flashy like Perplexity runes, but it was handy.

so does it just instantly stealth u when u steal it or is it in ur steal skill waiting for u to use it, because if it just happens then i would hate this signet. I like to manage my reveal properly after attack and random stealth could mess it up and get me killed lol

These runes don’t interact with stealth in any form, if that’s what you’re asking. I’m not quite sure what you mean with that question. The life stealing portion pops up as a buff, and stays there until you attack, get downed or log/leave the map.

Source:

Rune:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Scavenging

Sigil:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Leeching

The Dire vs. Carrion argument really boils down to your playstyle and number of opponents. I’ve found Carrion is a little better in a 1 on 1, and Dire works better against 2 or more opponents.

Edit: I run 3044 Armor, which equates to 39.68% reduction in damage. That results in a bit more than 30 per hit, especially if it’s a special attack like backstab.

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

There isnt a single build type out there that I struggle with while using dire. I’m sorry, but your direct damage is lackluster with carrion. Period. 30hp per hit? Quit using made up numbers as a source of validity.

point taken. so why use dire then ? lol if you dont struggle…why so much defense? you have so much defense you need to drop dmg for more? eh ?

6%toughness to condi dmg putting that out there … 5% vit to condi dmg … all on the same food … just putting that out there and yes this is me being a troll cause i thought it was funny

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

There isnt a single build type out there that I struggle with while using dire. I’m sorry, but your direct damage is lackluster with carrion. Period. 30hp per hit? Quit using made up numbers as a source of validity.

point taken. so why use dire then ? lol if you dont struggle…why so much defense? you have so much defense you need to drop dmg for more? eh ?

you cannot possibly be serious…..

Fade.7658:

The Dire vs. Carrion argument really boils down to your playstyle and number of opponents. I’ve found Carrion is a little better in a 1 on 1, and Dire works better against 2 or more opponents.

Edit: I run 3044 Armor, which equates to 39.68% reduction in damage. That results in a bit more than 30 per hit, especially if it’s a special attack like backstab.

ummm how much dmg reduction is the difference of power from dire to carrion. im guessing about 30 per hit. guessing. could be far off i dont know. havent played with the formula since like march.

tell me how much 718 is. i just added up full carrion on me. thats what i have. dire has 0 power. but lets now look at dire. full dire which gives toughness instead of power…. so 718 toughness

very little difference….. not worth losing double your direct dmg from CND and SNEAK ATTACK and AUTO ATTACK

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

There isnt a single build type out there that I struggle with while using dire. I’m sorry, but your direct damage is lackluster with carrion. Period. 30hp per hit? Quit using made up numbers as a source of validity.

point taken. so why use dire then ? lol if you dont struggle…why so much defense? you have so much defense you need to drop dmg for more? eh ?

you cannot possibly be serious…..

quite. why lose the offensive dmg on up to 6 people when you are only saving minute amounts of dmg? seriously. answer that. its ok if u prefer the minute amount of dmg saving vs dealing ALOT more outgoing…. i prefer doign more dmg bc im content with the amount of toughness i already ahve for that build.

Travlane.5948:

Fade.7658:

The Dire vs. Carrion argument really boils down to your playstyle and number of opponents. I’ve found Carrion is a little better in a 1 on 1, and Dire works better against 2 or more opponents.

Edit: I run 3044 Armor, which equates to 39.68% reduction in damage. That results in a bit more than 30 per hit, especially if it’s a special attack like backstab.

ummm how much dmg reduction is the difference of power from dire to carrion. im guessing about 30 per hit. guessing. could be far off i dont know. havent played with the formula since like march.

tell me how much 718 is. i just added up full carrion on me. thats what i have. dire has 0 power. but lets now look at dire. full dire which gives toughness instead of power…. so 718 toughness

very little difference….. not worth losing double your direct dmg from CND and SNEAK ATTACK and AUTO ATTACK

I think it also depends what tier you’re in for WvW, which I’m assuming is the test bed for this conversation. I’m on tier 1, and it’s a zerg fest everywhere you go. You rarely get just 1 opponent and that’s where the extra defense helps imo.

Don’t get me wrong, I used Carrion for the longest time, and it does have it’s uses. If I merely swapped my Dire armor out for Carrion, it would net me 224 power. I’d have to make more changes to really make a difference in direct damage. That wouldn’t net me twice the direct damage I have now. I could make changes to get power to the point where I’m near 3K attack, but then you start losing condition damage.

There’s a new Sigil coming out that boosts toughness on every kill, like the corruption sigil, so you can likely have your cake and eat it too using that (swap Dire for Carrion, and use that to offset the toughness loss).

Travlane.5948:

quite. why lose the offensive dmg on up to 6 people when you are only saving minute amounts of dmg? seriously. answer that. its ok if u prefer the minute amount of dmg saving vs dealing ALOT more outgoing…. i prefer doign more dmg bc im content with the amount of toughness i already ahve for that build.

In one-to-many situations extra toughness counts for every opponent hitting you, while the use of power remains single target. At some amount of foes the extra damage reduction wins from the damage sacrificed.

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

There isnt a single build type out there that I struggle with while using dire. I’m sorry, but your direct damage is lackluster with carrion. Period. 30hp per hit? Quit using made up numbers as a source of validity.

point taken. so why use dire then ? lol if you dont struggle…why so much defense? you have so much defense you need to drop dmg for more? eh ?

you cannot possibly be serious…..

quite. why lose the offensive dmg on up to 6 people when you are only saving minute amounts of dmg? seriously. answer that. its ok if u prefer the minute amount of dmg saving vs dealing ALOT more outgoing…. i prefer doign more dmg bc im content with the amount of toughness i already ahve for that build.

Except carrion doesnt provide much of any damage. Its laughable.

Fade.7658:

Travlane.5948:

Fade.7658:

The Dire vs. Carrion argument really boils down to your playstyle and number of opponents. I’ve found Carrion is a little better in a 1 on 1, and Dire works better against 2 or more opponents.

Edit: I run 3044 Armor, which equates to 39.68% reduction in damage. That results in a bit more than 30 per hit, especially if it’s a special attack like backstab.

ummm how much dmg reduction is the difference of power from dire to carrion. im guessing about 30 per hit. guessing. could be far off i dont know. havent played with the formula since like march.

tell me how much 718 is. i just added up full carrion on me. thats what i have. dire has 0 power. but lets now look at dire. full dire which gives toughness instead of power…. so 718 toughness

very little difference….. not worth losing double your direct dmg from CND and SNEAK ATTACK and AUTO ATTACK

I think it also depends what tier you’re in for WvW, which I’m assuming is the test bed for this conversation. I’m on tier 1, and it’s a zerg fest everywhere you go. You rarely get just 1 opponent and that’s where the extra defense helps imo.

Don’t get me wrong, I used Carrion for the longest time, and it does have it’s uses. If I merely swapped my Dire armor out for Carrion, it would net me 224 power. I’d have to make more changes to really make a difference in direct damage. That wouldn’t net me twice the direct damage I have now. I could make changes to get power to the point where I’m near 3K attack, but then you start losing condition damage.

There’s a new Sigil coming out that boosts toughness on every kill, like the corruption sigil, so you can likely have your cake and eat it too using that (swap Dire for Carrion, and use that to offset the toughness loss).

full carrion out for full dire = 718 power loss

i consider TPVP/SPVP/WVW when i make comments. i mean i guess if ur in zerg style you COULD use dire and it wouldnt be bad. but if ur in a zerg as a thief ur hurting your team. u are better of rerolling to a diff class to go zerging :P i dont mean that in a bad way….just any other class is more productive in huge zergs. thieves are more of a cap camper , havoc squads and roamers. Not only that tpvp/spvp is never zerging. seriously do the math….its MINUTE. like if u had 50k hp then id say yeah its worth it bc u could take enough hits for it to really add up. but with 18k hp or so….. :P you wont notice enough HP saved from that bitty toughness. i used rabid and apothecaries to test it out. bleh the direct dmg loss was noticeable and so obvious. i could make a video but i sold my crappy toughness armor.

[/quote]tell me how much 718 is. i just added up full carrion on me. thats what i have. dire has 0 power. but lets now look at dire. full dire which gives toughness instead of power…. so 718 toughness

very little difference….. not worth losing double your direct dmg from CND and SNEAK ATTACK and AUTO ATTACK[/quote]

Using GWbuildcraft.com, plugging in 718 toughness is a 24.68% increase in damage reduction. I hate doing the math on things, so I’ve been using that site for various theorycrafting.

Base thief, no anything:

Damage & Survivability
Effective Power 934.32
Effective Health (EHP)11652
Damage Reduction 7.27%
Reference Armor 1836

Thief with an extra 718 toughness:

Damage & Survivability
Effective Power 934.32
Effective Health (EHP) 15878
Damage Reduction 31.95%
Reference Armor 1836

Thief with 718 power instead:

Damage & Survivability
Effective Power 1666.68
Effective Health (EHP) 11652
Damage Reduction 7.27%
Reference Armor 1836

Edit: I wvw only. I don’t really go with the zerg unless it’s karma train friday. I tend to roam mostly, and scout if need be. I don’t do pvp at all. The extra toughness really helps when you’re get jumped by a 2 on 1 or more, and that’s very common in T1 WvW.

2nd edit: Also bear in mind there isn’t any ascended Carrion trinkets. I’d expect you’d want carrion trinkets for more power.

I did a small amount of testing, adding power in increments, on my thief in full Dire, with traits all reset. Numbers are on average, unless noted otherwise. Crits were not recorded.

Auto Attack:

Base: 144-155
+250 power (sharpening stone): 167-180
+550 power (sharp stone + 30 points in deadly arts):238-252
+704 power (sharp stone + 30 points in deadly arts, 2 weapons with power):245-268

— Gain of ~80 damage for 700 power

Cloak and dagger:

Base: 582-868
+250 power (sharpening stone): 668-1063
+550 power (sharp stone + 30 points in deadly arts): 903-1403
+704 power (sharp stone + 30 points in deadly arts, 2 weapons with power): 978- 1500

— Gain of ~300-550 damage for 700 power.

Sneak Attack:

Base: 87-89 per shot, 435 total
+250 power (sharpening stone): 99-102, 495 total
+550 power (sharp stone + 30 points in deadly arts): 143-145, 725 total
+704 power (sharp stone + 30 points in deadly arts, 2 weapons with power): 151-162, 810 total

— Gain of ~80 damage per sneak attack shot, 400ish more for total damage.

Bear in mind this is a very small sample of numbers, and there is sure to be a lot more variety, especially with the infinite number of gear combinations. What I noticed is that you really need to add at least 600 or so power for it to be worth the loss of toughness. At that point it seems to taper off a little.

I didn’t go farther with more power, as I’m saving the cash and materials I have for Ascended Armor. In some cases, damage was an increase of close to 100% (sneak attack). I didn’t fine tune things, like the impact vulnerability might have after a cloak and dagger on sneak attack. It’s meant to be a very fast and loose look.

I’d have to say that adding 700 power will probably net you around an 80% increase in direct damage overall. (not counting criticals)

As for toughness, that 718 extra toughness is around a 24% reduction in incoming damage. A 10K backstab would be 7500, and auto attacks from a power user could conceivably save you 200-250 health per swing. It’s not easy doing calculations of that sort, with so many variables.

It boils down to what you value more.

ok just did the math. on the strongest dmg character (supposedly) thief iwth FULL ZERKER and ALL ASCENDEDS …INCLUDING weapons (legendary) the dmg difference was a little over 300 on a clusterbomb between the sets.

incoming dmg on dire set = 1125

incoming dmg on carr set = 1450

Base HP same for both (granted same builds) so 325 dmg less on a cluster bomb. a powerful skill. Now nobody really goes zerker in WVW or even spvp. so lets look at it from a PVT set and then average both to get a general idea of what its going to save.

on a power guardian with all exotics its about 230damage difference. i chose 2 powerful attacks for both. now not EVERY attack is powerful …some are glances … some are auto attacks and not everyone is running full power builds. so guestimate how much AVERAGE dmg per hit is lowerd. id go about 150ish. still way more than i first guessed.

the difference in dmg dealt is 550-850 per sneak attack and not sure about CND as i havent tried yet yet. 550 is the low end on heavy full 2600 armors. and 850 more is on the medium to lights.

so only average its about 700 dmg extra per Sneack per CND etc .

so the question is which do you prefer…..dealing over double direct dmg? or more toughness to shave off 150ish dmg per hit. both are nice but the question is which does the build need more? well direct dmg is OBVIOUSLY the weakness of the build. and defense is its toughness. p/d playd right is the most defensive build thief has.

go go to mists with crap armor and show you if u dont believe me. or just go check yourself. i mgith go in a min and try the difference between dire and carrion on incoming dmg. i wont use auto attacks and i wont use backstabs to gauge…. i use something with roughly 1 for a coeficcient when ill try.

Travlane.5948:

go go to mists with crap armor and show you if u dont believe me. or just go check yourself. i mgith go in a min and try the difference between dire and carrion on incoming dmg. i wont use auto attacks and i wont use backstabs to gauge…. i use something with roughly 1 for a coeficcient when ill try.

I’m not arguing that Carrion is worse than Dire, or vice versa. I think both have their place, and everyone has different play styles. I prefer Dire, as it offers something of a buffer for mistakes, and against CC-heavy professions (hammer warrior anyone?), can give you that extra defense to survive if your stun break is down.

I do think that Carrion can suffer from lowered damage vs. high armor targets, and that’s where Dire’s extra toughness helps. Granted, a Dire setup will suffer direct damage loss at the same % a Carrion build would against a high armor target, but then again, as a P/D user, I deliver more damage via conditions anyways.

Carrion or Dire should be looked at as how it augments your combat style (defensive or offensive) and the external conditions, like enemy numbers, melee or ranged and many other factors.

Does a Carrion build inflict more damage in the same amount of time? Of course. It could also be argued that a Dire build may give you a little more fighting time before death, thus closing the damage gap between the two.

Edit: I seem to recall reading somewhere that power scales better than toughness.

ahh i see what ur saying. have you been playing thief long? unless ur 3v1 or more should still be a VERY forgiving build. guardian builds are very hard if its a good player but still very beatable. just make sure you drop aegis b4 you get CND off.

I don’t play anything else, although I have a ranger alt. I’ve played since day one, and have tried just about all the different builds, and I keep coming back to P/D.

It is a forgiving build regardless of carrion or dire, but I find myself against more than one opponent quite often, and I like having that extra little buffer in case I need to bail.

I’m just of the opinion, that if you want more direct damage as a P/D user, Celestial pieces might work better overall. You’d get more than just power and keep some of that toughness.

I also think that as a P/D user, it might be worthwhile to go at least 10 deep in Deadly Arts for Sundering Strikes post-Dec 10th.

- Deadly Arts VI – Sundering Strikes. Increased the trigger chance from 50%. Remove ICD. Decrease Vulnerability duration to 6s.

With just enough crit, you should be able to get this to proc fairly often (no ICD!), as a cover-up condition. It wouldn’t be worth losing Mug, though, at least imo.

Effective Power 1666.68
Damage Reduction 7.27%

Like I said, laughable. Thank you for posting this.

Using the exact setup in the build I posted on the first page of the thread I ended up with this:

Effective Power 1082.04
Effective Health (EHP) 27070
Damage Reduction 37.7%
Reference Armor 1836

With 8 stacks of might: 1443 power
With 2 stacks of might: 1233 power

The above were listed without the extra 100 power I was just receiving from bloodlust.
Being in T1 I almost always have at least 50 extra power from bloodlust. I also always have a minimum of 2 stacks of might because of the constant stealthing from Cloak and Dagger.

The point is I can still reach a decent power level while having like 5x the damage reduction when fighting outnumbered.

Does damage reduction work just like it sounds? I.e if i get hit for 1000 naked i get hit for 900 with 10% damage reduction?

If so then it seems Dire would be lots better.

What I’d like to do is go meet someone in WvW (I’m of Fort Aspenwood) and actually whack each other a few times in each set and put up actual IG results. PM me if you want to.

I will throw in my 2c:

I run 5/0/30/5/30 for the swiftness but after reading this thread I’m thinking about doing the 10 for Mug, it just makes sense since I steal so much.

For gear I use carrion armor with perplexity runes and use steal to generate interrupts – I sometimes Use P/P and use headshot to get an interrupt as well and to produce blinds with Pistol 5 along with P/D. I never get more than 8 confusion tho since I don’t spam it and I find it’s a great cover condition.

I waited forever for Carrion ascended trinkets, but since they were not forthcoming I made just 2 weeks ago a full set of Dire trinkets with my (never before spent) laurels. I put power in the infusion slots. Now this thread has me thinking I should get Dire Armor as well…..

When I fight now I often start with Pistol/Pistol, wait for the right moment, headshot interrupt then swap to P/D.

I then C/D Steal, blast them with sneak attack and shadow shot away.

At this point they have Daze (ending quickly), Confusion, Vuln, Poison, Bleeding and torment on them. It’s not at all hard to pull off.

At that point you have lots of options. If I have P/P rather than SB I am using SoS for the speed, otherwise you have 2 stealths ,maybe 3 (heal, refuge, BP) and Shadowstep.

If the players are bad to average you have them and they are fooked. All those condis paralyze them mentally, or they don’t really notice them and spam skills at you that you can avoid.

Good players mean you have a good fight on your hands but it is a v good 1 v1 class.

Watch out for necros that xfer all the condis back to you tho!!

Well ill throw in my 2pennies as well.

Carrion gear w/ travellers
0/0/20/20/30

I like acrobatics for WvW especially the extra dodging and Pain Response. The regen from that works in place of stealth regen for me. And must have the mini caltrops trait like Omni has mentioned, also the steal daze.

Utilities depend on what im doing… always have the SS, withdraw usually, other favorites, dev venom, inf sig, scorp wire, shadow refuge.

Food: Bowl of Orrian Truffle Meat Stew and that new crystal from tower update.

Oh and SB swap… personal preference

im running scavenger runes and leeching sigil also like fade. Leeching sigil is my favorite sigil to run on my warrior, so I tried to incorporate it also into my p/d thief, and scavenger runes just match it so perfectly. Running full dire gears to I gain more condition damage from the 6th bonus. im running 0/0/30/20/20 with vigorous recovery and withdraw which works perfectly with the 4th bonus on the runes since the icd is 15 sec which is the same cd as withdraw.

Isn’t anyone mixing Runes of Afflicted, Centaur and Krait for the +45% bleed duration?

frans.8092:

Isn’t anyone mixing Runes of Afflicted, Centaur and Krait for the +45% bleed duration?

If you expect bleed to be your only substance in a condi build. Then condi really isn’t for you my friend. (No disrespect intended).

Thiefsmer v2
x4 perplexity x2 rata sum
Dire gear
Dire trinkets
10/0/30/10/20
Potent poison( for deadly arts 10)
Shadow’s embrace/Hidden thief/Shadow’s rejuvenation
Descent of shadows
Caltrops or Instinctual response/ Bountiful theft

AikijinX.6258:

frans.8092:

Isn’t anyone mixing Runes of Afflicted, Centaur and Krait for the +45% bleed duration?

If you expect bleed to be your only substance in a condi build. Then condi really isn’t for you my friend. (No disrespect intended).

Thiefsmer v2
x4 perplexity x2 rata sum
Dire gear
Dire trinkets
10/0/30/10/20
Potent poison( for deadly arts 10)
Shadow’s embrace/Hidden thief/Shadow’s rejuvenation
Descent of shadows
Caltrops or Instinctual response/ Bountiful theft

Why x2 rata sum? Wouldn’t it be better to go with x2 Superior Rune of Orrian?

AikijinX.6258:

frans.8092:

Isn’t anyone mixing Runes of Afflicted, Centaur and Krait for the +45% bleed duration?

If you expect bleed to be your only substance in a condi build. Then condi really isn’t for you my friend. (No disrespect intended).

Thiefsmer v2
x4 perplexity x2 rata sum
Dire gear
Dire trinkets
10/0/30/10/20
Potent poison( for deadly arts 10)
Shadow’s embrace/Hidden thief/Shadow’s rejuvenation
Descent of shadows
Caltrops or Instinctual response/ Bountiful theft

How’s confusion going to be triggered? 3 stacks lasting 5 seconds triggered on a 20% chance on getting hit seems like a small addition. If that is your only substance in a condition build then condi really isn’t for you my friend (etc…)
And how are you going to apply poison in a P/D setup?

frans.8092:

AikijinX.6258:

frans.8092:

Isn’t anyone mixing Runes of Afflicted, Centaur and Krait for the +45% bleed duration?

If you expect bleed to be your only substance in a condi build. Then condi really isn’t for you my friend. (No disrespect intended).

Thiefsmer v2
x4 perplexity x2 rata sum
Dire gear
Dire trinkets
10/0/30/10/20
Potent poison( for deadly arts 10)
Shadow’s embrace/Hidden thief/Shadow’s rejuvenation
Descent of shadows
Caltrops or Instinctual response/ Bountiful theft

How’s confusion going to be triggered? 3 stacks lasting 5 seconds triggered on a 20% chance on getting hit seems like a small addition. If that is your only substance in a condition build then condi really isn’t for you my friend (etc…)
And how are you going to apply poison in a P/D setup?

sigil of doom for ex.

Carob.6789:

frans.8092:

And how are you going to apply poison in a P/D setup?

sigil of doom for ex.

Ok. Quite a lot of trouble for 8 seconds of poison every 10 seconds. Wouldn’t Lotus Poison go nicely with it, weakness is quite good, especially when you intend to get hit to trigger those runes.

frans.8092:

Carob.6789:

frans.8092:

And how are you going to apply poison in a P/D setup?

sigil of doom for ex.

Ok. Quite a lot of trouble for 8 seconds of poison every 10 seconds. Wouldn’t Lotus Poison go nicely with it, weakness is quite good, especially when you intend to get hit to trigger those runes.

infact i use sigil of doom (in my build it last for 10 sec) with lotus poison (8 sec every 15 sec).

frans.8092:

AikijinX.6258:

frans.8092:

Isn’t anyone mixing Runes of Afflicted, Centaur and Krait for the +45% bleed duration?

If you expect bleed to be your only substance in a condi build. Then condi really isn’t for you my friend. (No disrespect intended).

Thiefsmer v2
x4 perplexity x2 rata sum
Dire gear
Dire trinkets
10/0/30/10/20
Potent poison( for deadly arts 10)
Shadow’s embrace/Hidden thief/Shadow’s rejuvenation
Descent of shadows
Caltrops or Instinctual response/ Bountiful theft

How’s confusion going to be triggered? 3 stacks lasting 5 seconds triggered on a 20% chance on getting hit seems like a small addition. If that is your only substance in a condition build then condi really isn’t for you my friend (etc…)
And how are you going to apply poison in a P/D setup?

The 3 stacks of confusion gets applied quite frequently, and reliably. These stacks are just icing on the cake for the build. You gain poison with the minor trait in deadly arts Serpents touch and When you go into the 1st tier of deadly arts you can choose the 1st tier trait of deadly arts called Potent poison which Adds 33% poison duration I checked lotus poison last night. The weakness doesn’t stack with each charge out of 5 from spider venom. And the ICD is too long. I do not use sigil of doom.

And yes actually Superior rune of the Orrian would be A lot better than Rata Sum, Unfortunately I don’t have any Arah Zhaitan shards.. So I resort to these runes.

I made this version of Thiefsmer due to the upcoming nerf to Perplex

AikijinX.6258:

The 3 stacks of confusion gets applied quite frequently, and reliably. These stacks are just icing on the cake for the build.

But you’d sacrifice 30% bleed duration for these 4 runes and bleed is large portion of the damage for D/P. For 5 seconds of a 3-stack confusion.

You gain poison with the minor trait in deadly arts Serpents touch and When you go into the 1st tier of deadly arts you can choose the 1st tier trait of deadly arts called Potent poison which Adds 33% poison duration

But steal has a 35 second cooldown, and hence, application of poison and when you go into Deadly Arts you don’t much points left to reduce that cooldown. I like the Sigil of Doom suggestion though, combined with steal you could get a decent poison uptime.

I checked lotus poison last night. The weakness doesn’t stack with each charge out of 5 from spider venom. And the ICD is too long. I do not use sigil of doom.

The wiki does mention weakness doesn’t stack (duration) more then 5 times. But you pass up 5 × 4 seconds weakness when stacking poison from Spider Venom?

frans.8092:

AikijinX.6258:

The 3 stacks of confusion gets applied quite frequently, and reliably. These stacks are just icing on the cake for the build.

But you’d sacrifice 30% bleed duration for these 4 runes and bleed is large portion of the damage for D/P. For 5 seconds of a 3-stack confusion.

You gain poison with the minor trait in deadly arts Serpents touch and When you go into the 1st tier of deadly arts you can choose the 1st tier trait of deadly arts called Potent poison which Adds 33% poison duration

But steal has a 35 second cooldown, and hence, application of poison and when you go into Deadly Arts you don’t much points left to reduce that cooldown. I like the Sigil of Doom suggestion though, combined with steal you could get a decent poison uptime.

I checked lotus poison last night. The weakness doesn’t stack with each charge out of 5 from spider venom. And the ICD is too long. I do not use sigil of doom.

The wiki does mention weakness doesn’t stack (duration) more then 5 times. But you pass up 5 × 4 seconds weakness when stacking poison from Spider Venom?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQIXC_VHghk

frans.8092:

AikijinX.6258:

The 3 stacks of confusion gets applied quite frequently, and reliably. These stacks are just icing on the cake for the build.

But you’d sacrifice 30% bleed duration for these 4 runes and bleed is large portion of the damage for D/P. For 5 seconds of a 3-stack confusion.

You gain poison with the minor trait in deadly arts Serpents touch and When you go into the 1st tier of deadly arts you can choose the 1st tier trait of deadly arts called Potent poison which Adds 33% poison duration

But steal has a 35 second cooldown, and hence, application of poison and when you go into Deadly Arts you don’t much points left to reduce that cooldown. I like the Sigil of Doom suggestion though, combined with steal you could get a decent poison uptime.

I checked lotus poison last night. The weakness doesn’t stack with each charge out of 5 from spider venom. And the ICD is too long. I do not use sigil of doom.

The wiki does mention weakness doesn’t stack (duration) more then 5 times. But you pass up 5 × 4 seconds weakness when stacking poison from Spider Venom?

I’m on a 29.25 sec steal recharge, and yes I will pass it up because that’s 5 charges wasted on a skill that I thought would have stacked. it just didn’t feel right for me. So no Lotus poison for me. Sigil of doom would be good if you are into the swapping, I rarely swap to shortbow.

You can still get your bleed duration in the condition duration stat. I have +75% to all conditions via Food (40%), Runes (10%), Trait line (15%) and the new Toxic Crystal (+10%).

Having every condition you can drop last an extra 75% is really nice. Your immobilize lasts 1.75 seconds, for starters. Both your bleeds and poison benefit from the same stat, instead of boosting just one condition with +Bleed duration.

Edit: No idea why half my post is underlined.

In P/D damage is coming from bleeding, the poison supports by reducing healing effectivity. You can easily get +75% bleed duration without food – and with food you’ll easily get the max 100%. Is the 12.5% loss in bleeding damage (from 200% to 175% duration) compensated for by the extra utility offered by longer conditions in general.

frans.8092:

In P/D damage is coming from bleeding, the poison supports by reducing healing effectivity. You can easily get +75% bleed duration without food – and with food you’ll easily get the max 100%. Is the 12.5% loss in bleeding damage (from 200% to 175% duration) compensated for by the extra utility offered by longer conditions in general.

In my mind’s eye, it is. The longer my cover conditions last, the better. With as much condition removal that is present, I rarely see my bleeds last their full duration. I was running 50% condition duration for quite a while, and saw little difference over 75%, bleed damage.

edit: Poison damage is essentially worth 2 stacks of bleeds, in addition to the healing reduction. The longer it lasts, the better. Torment would only last 5 seconds with the focus on bleed damage, instead of 8 with condi. duration.

Fade.7658:

In my mind’s eye, it is. The longer my cover conditions last, the better.

This is why I always thought that Condition Duration > Bleed Duration, at least from a personal standpoint. Why cut potential Torment damage in half by going strictly Bleed Duration? Why cut applied Blinds shorter than need be?

Glad to see others think that way too.

xmtrcv.5236:

Fade.7658:

In my mind’s eye, it is. The longer my cover conditions last, the better.

This is why I always thought that Condition Duration > Bleed Duration, at least from a personal standpoint. Why cut potential Torment damage in half by going strictly Bleed Duration? Why cut applied Blinds shorter than need be?

Glad to see others think that way too.

Because if you were to hypothetically double torment damage from 500 to 1k but reduce bleed damage from 6k to 5k you’ve lost 500 hp damage. It’s not a simple case of counting conditions.
Just pulling some numbers from thin air for illustration. you’d have to do some real numbers. I’d like to have +50-75% condition duration (without food) but +Bleed duration is a lot easier to stack.

Anyway, thread shows Poison and +condition duration is quite viable, and gives some pointers on how, and I really do prefer not to be tied into the single trick pony of bleed stacking.