Guild Wars 2

So recently I posted about thieves having access to a new F3 skill which would give thieves something truly unique

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/New-F3-skill/first#post5535097

This is the link for anyone wanting to check it out.

So another F3/F4 idea has come to mind.

Thieves essentially have no weapon swap as you will never(or rarely) see a thief without shortbow. The mobility is just too valuable and essential.

If thieves were to have access to shortbow through f3 which would replace the weaponskills with shortbow, and would o on a 15 second cooldown when switching back would make a lot of sense.

This would open up a lot of versatility to thief builds as we could take D/P and S/D without losing a lot of mobility.

My preference would be to rework Shadowstep into a short CD (10-15s) core mobility mechanic. The core Shadowstep would be a vanilla ground-targeted blink similar to the current skill version. Different trait lines could bring back some of its old effects (condition removal trait in DA/SA, Stunbreak trait in Acro, etc.)

If implemented along with other changes (like redesigning Acro to be the mobility trait line), this could open up room to tone down the ubiquitous Shortbow and help encourage more weapon and build diversity for Thief.

I don’t think thats really that unique since ele’s can conjure weapons and engi’s swap kits. Truthfully this would only be really useful in PvP, kinda useless in PvE.

Problems with solutions: just make steal ground targeted!

Rising Dusk.2408:

Problems with solutions: just make steal ground targeted!

I’d rather have an F3 Shadowstep than that.

I think you’re looking at it the wrong way. Thief is not “absolute trash” by any means. On the contrary, it has one of the strongest build in Conquest: d/p-SB. Allowing SB to be on F3 would be a straight-up buff to a build that already performs amazingly, which is not what the profession needs.

The problem with thief is that we’re stuck with this mobile role because of shortbow. Naturally, if thief was as mobile as it is now and won every duel, it would be simply OP. So what is there to hope?

I really, really hoped that staff would open up a new playstyle. For example, if staff was a low-damage support weapon, with a lot of active defenses, capable of stalemating 2 opponents on a point, and if Daredevil (who would have been called differently) offered some support and sustain. That way, to deal a minimum of damage, we would have had for example a Soldier staff-sw/dagger, less mobile, but capable of winning 1v1s. That’s not the direction Anet is going, so you can expect to stay glassy +1er and decappers for a while.

i’d prefer a skill like ‘Come here Baby’: – Shadowstep ur Target to ur position.

with that skill thief could get a target out of AoEs that would kill him , if target gets only shadowstepped (not pulled) its not a cc so u could get out ppl with stability – that would be a fitting mechanic for an assassin IMO.

and to shortbow:
just rework shortbow 5 or remove the weapon and then balance the thief again would create some more options in how the thief could be played as some ppl seem to like decap&+1 , while other want to be an assassin.

MUDse.7623:

i’d prefer a skill like ‘Come here Baby’: – Shadowstep ur Target to ur position.

What Scorpion Wire should be: “Shadow Whip”, hit target with a shadow whip, shadowstep the target to your location and blind.

BFMV.3198:

Thieves essentially have no weapon swap as you will never(or rarely) see a thief without shortbow.

This reasoning is so bad. You all choose this weapon to swap to, because it’s the best option. Yet, because you chose the best option for your weapon swap, you basically have no weapon swap. Completely false. The inverse isn’t even true: if the only weapon you can choose to have to swap to is so bad you never use it, you essentially don’t have a weapon swap. Then it’d be a problem with that weapon and or all the other options. You don’t not have something because you have it.

An F3 ground targeted 1200 shadowstep on a 15 second CD with no other effects would open up some build variety. SB 5 could have it’s range reduced to 600 and initiative bumped down to 5 so it’s still great in-combat mobility.

That idea is nonsense and would make Thieves overpowered, if they could have the mobility of shortbow together while having D/P and S/D together for even more combat mobility and survivability without having to give up something for that.

Dont forget that you also have for combat related mobility steal and Shadow Step also as utility skill with 1200 range.

If ANet ever would want to give Thieves the option to literally have the advantage of having 3 weapons at once, the much easier solution would it be in case for a next Thief Elite Specialization for example to let the Thief have 3 Weapon Sets.

This way with such an E Spec you’d be then able to play D/P, S/D and S/B for example in one build.
GW1 already allowed us to use like 3 or 4 different weapon builds to carry around.. so I don’t think that it should be such a wide step away to use a 3rd Weapon Swap as an Elite Specialization Mechanic for the next one.

Thats an improvement, that shouldn’t work for the Vanilla Thief as it would make the Vanilla Thief OP if we could have 3 Weapon Sets withous having to sacrifice something for that increase in build freedom and and combat tactical increase in lesser preditability due to having one more weapon in choice to which you could strategetically change in the midsts of combat and the effects of on swap sigils that could come in handy more with two sets to change to other than just only 1.

luzt.7692:

I don’t think thats really that unique since ele’s can conjure weapons and engi’s swap kits. Truthfully this would only be really useful in PvP, kinda useless in PvE.

Very useful actually. Free access to a ranged option and blast finishers without having to actually equip the weapon? Yes please.

This is the main question…

Would a Thief with both Dagger/Pistol and Sword/Dagger become strong enough to win 1v1’s consistently?

While we’re at it, would ANY two weapon sets without Shortbow make the Thief strong enough to win 1v1’s consistently?

Do weapon sets other than Shortbow actually make the Thief NOT glass?

Mobility isn’t the issue. It’s simply a matter of 1v1 capability. If the Thief STILL cannot conistently win 1v1’s, then there’s no reason to not have mobility also. We’re not looking to surpass everyone, we’re looking to be brought up to par.

Here is another question. If F3 simply gave us 400 range shadowsteps at the cost of 4 initiative, would you replace your Shortbow?

Ps. Another option… making Shortbow an Elite utility.

Doggie.3184:

I’d rather have an F3 Shadowstep than that.

Of course because then you’d have Steal and a free extra teleport in addition to it. The thing is that ANet is never going to add an F3 1200 range teleport to the class (only possible with a future elite spec years down the road), so if you’d like to see improvements to make Shortbow less necessary you’re going to need to think of something else.

I seriously think they just need better utility on the other weapon sets to actually compete with shortbow. What form that takes is debatable, but I think that’s the core of the issue.

Impact.2780:

BFMV.3198:

Thieves essentially have no weapon swap as you will never(or rarely) see a thief without shortbow.

This reasoning is so bad. You all choose this weapon to swap to, because it’s the best option. Yet, because you chose the best option for your weapon swap, you basically have no weapon swap. Completely false. The inverse isn’t even true: if the only weapon you can choose to have to swap to is so bad you never use it, you essentially don’t have a weapon swap. Then it’d be a problem with that weapon and or all the other options. You don’t not have something because you have it.

Thieves all choose this weapon to swap to because its the only viable option, not because it’s the best. Even the majority of players who (mistakenly) believe that thieves are in a “fine place” will tell you it’s because of their mobility/decap potential. Without shortbow, those things vanish. All you’re left with is a class that can’t 1v1 most other meta specs, and is viewed as a detriment in any team fight where they aren’t providing a numerical advantage for their team (which they’ll be MUCH less capable of doing without shortbow, btw) – not that team fights really matter without shortbow, as your ability to contribute to any aoe-fest node centered fight diminishes vastly without a shortbow equipped.

I’ll repeat it for you so it’s crystal clear – Even players who believe thieves are not in need of a buff will acknowledge that all of their meta viability is tied to their mobility. 95% of that mobility is found in shortbow. A thief without a shortbow is a waste of space in the meta, therefore any thief interested in being efficacious in the game has shortbow glued into their second slot.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Doggie.3184:

I’d rather have an F3 Shadowstep than that.

Of course because then you’d have Steal and a free extra teleport in addition to it.

Or they could just have this new F3 share a CD with Steal. Steal retains it’s 30s(~21s traited)CD, and this new ability could have a base 10s(7s) traited) CD that gets triggered on both abilities whenever either is used.

Xae Isareth.1364:

luzt.7692:

I don’t think thats really that unique since ele’s can conjure weapons and engi’s swap kits. Truthfully this would only be really useful in PvP, kinda useless in PvE.

Very useful actually. Free access to a ranged option and blast finishers without having to actually equip the weapon? Yes please.

I know shortbow is useful. I don’t know why having 2 mêlee weapons in PvE would be game changing useful. Tell me about some scenario’s were it would shine.

luzt.7692:

Xae Isareth.1364:

luzt.7692:

I don’t think thats really that unique since ele’s can conjure weapons and engi’s swap kits. Truthfully this would only be really useful in PvP, kinda useless in PvE.

Very useful actually. Free access to a ranged option and blast finishers without having to actually equip the weapon? Yes please.

I know shortbow is useful. I don’t know why having 2 mêlee weapons in PvE would be game changing useful. Tell me about some scenario’s were it would shine.

A boss with constant add waves.

You would go DD for the boss, s/p or staff for add waves.

Or if you need heavy boon stripping for parts of a fight, you would carry s/d in your second slot.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Doggie.3184:

I’d rather have an F3 Shadowstep than that.

Of course because then you’d have Steal and a free extra teleport in addition to it. The thing is that ANet is never going to add an F3 1200 range teleport to the class (only possible with a future elite spec years down the road), so if you’d like to see improvements to make Shortbow less necessary you’re going to need to think of something else.

I seriously think they just need better utility on the other weapon sets to actually compete with shortbow. What form that takes is debatable, but I think that’s the core of the issue.

The problem is changing it to shadowstep is basically breaking it to fix our other problems since it’d ruin a lot of combos Thieves often use. So either way its a nerf to something and we need 100% pure buffs. Unless they want to go all out and Redesign Thief into an Assassin and get rid of Stealth, but they decided to make Revenant the Assassin instead.

Read what you said again and then look at Revenant’s Shiro stance, which can do multiple 1200 shadowsteps with no CD and fast energy regen to do it moar.

F3 = 400 range shadowstep with a blast finisher

Either on a 4 second cooldown or costs 4 initiative.

Doggie.3184:

The problem is changing it to shadowstep is basically breaking it to fix our other problems since it’d ruin a lot of combos Thieves often use. So either way its a nerf to something and we need 100% pure buffs.

Debatable; it could be made to work just fine even in current use-cases (Steal effects could apply to enemies in the target AOE). Still, Thieves do not need “100% pure buffs” to their mobility of all things. What they need are defensive buffs and added utility on weapon sets so that not using Shortbow isn’t so punishing.

Doggie.3184:

Read what you said again and then look at Revenant’s Shiro stance, which can do multiple 1200 shadowsteps with no CD and fast energy regen to do it moar.

The Revenant is not a Thief; they are very different. Also don’t forget that Phase Traversal is a targeted gap closer, and isn’t Shadowstep. It’s also competing in energy with a number of other powerful skills.

Xae Isareth.1364:

A boss with constant add waves.

You would go DD for the boss, s/p or staff for add waves.

Or if you need heavy boon stripping for parts of a fight, you would carry s/d in your second slot.

We can already boonstrip and blind, we just have to give up our best dps.
All-in-all, I think it doesn’t add anything new in general thats useful for each fight.
Weapon switching back and forth would take 18 seconds in total.
And we’re ignoring the problems the individual weaponsets have.

I came to the conclusion that you want to do the max dps while also being able to use the utilities the other weapons with subpar dps bring.

Personally, I would want those weapons to be good on their own!

BFMV.3198:

So recently I posted about thieves having access to a new F3 skill which would give thieves something truly unique

So another F3/F4 idea has come to mind.

If thieves were to have access to shortbow through f3 which would replace the weaponskills with shortbow, and would o on a 15 second cooldown when switching back would make a lot of sense.
.

What would be the most logical? Would thief get 3 weapon slots in Hero Panel? Or would Shortbow disappear from our weapon set? (no more SB skins,Sigils and Stat variety)

2 weapon-sets with short bow would be really fun to play. In sPvP, this would really help crit builds scrounge up some utility as Shadow Arts only works really well with D/P and condi P/D.