So for a trap ranger stealth literally is the only defense. I still don’t see why thieves are a unique snowflake here that deserve 100% stealth uptime.
Do the rangers have a whole trait line devoted to stealth? (A line that makes the thief attempt to survive damage)
People don’t want the rune of the trapper nerf, instead only specifically the thief.
Yes because the runes are not the problem? They function the same way on Guardian and on Ranger and there’s no issue.
But the way thief traps are set up allows them to stay perma stealthed which is ridiculous. Why nerf the runes when you could just add direct damage to traps to bring them in line with the others?
Actually….
Really…
You can either nerf the runes or add direct damage to the traps. Either way, the result will be the same: traps will be sent back to collect the dust.
Also, better hope there’s direct damage on ALL traps across all classes… Effectively, the same thing as nerfing the rune.
I think Needle Trap should have some direct damage added to it when it’s triggered (You are stepping on needles after all). The number of poison stacks inflicted from Needle Trap should be increased from 1 to 3.
Tripwire should probably have some direct damage added as well, but Needle Trap makes even more sense to do so. Tripwire should additionally apply 10 stacks of vulnerability for 5-10 seconds when it’s triggered to help make it a bit stronger.
This should prevent thieves from applying as many conditions while staying in stealth permanently from traps. Needle Trap and Tripwire are a bit more fierce to compensate for them revealing you now. It’s not like you have to stay permanently stealthed to get any use from these traps or trapper runes anyway. Trapper runes still give you stealth, and you can use a stealth attack before a trap gets triggered for some extra pressure if you want. It will require a bit more tactics in your placement of traps and timing, but it would still be strong.
They already had that. No one took traps. It was like the reveal trait they used to have on the Stealth line. It killed people.
Look the issue is as it ever was and that with d/p. That the only build one can really get this perma stealth and used as it is by ghost thieves it really not all that effective a build. It a fad that will pass as people adapt.
The other day I was immobbed on a castle wall while defending and then AOE dropped on me. I had used my immob break . it was death. It does not mean ranged AOE has to be removed. You get imobbed in an aoe there a pretty good chance you die. Why is this different?
This is not quite like the mandatory Last Refuge trait in Shadow Arts used to be. For one, you aren’t locked out of a trait line, you just might not want to take a certain rune set if it’s that big of a problem for you. In addition, you have complete control on when and where you place your traps, unlike with Last Refuge.
Also, these traps used to be a lot weaker back then in general. I think with these suggested buffs they will still be quite strong. Trapper Runes will still be useful too for the reasons I previously stated. Regardless, I don’t think traps should only be useful for a “ghost thief” build. The traps themselves should be strong enough to take without Trapper Runes. If the traps are too strong after that when paired with Trapper Runes, then maybe Trapper Runes are just too strong.
I like how it’s starting to stray into the stealth line that no one (QQ’ing) cares about.
So guys the question is:
Should we nerf trapper rune, for everyone
Or
Ensure that there’s direct damage on all traps across all classes?
Both effectively sending the traps back to chillin with the dust bunnies at the corner of useless street.
The issue is not the runes. the issue is not stealth. What happened is the player in question got IMOBBED in a field that applied bleeds via caltrops.
The issue was the immobilize. One more time. I die on many toons when I am imobbed in a field that is doing damage. whether the person stealthed whle he did it is not material.
if the thief popped out of hiding and sang swanee river as he did the soft shoe the op still would have died because the immobilize and caltrops killed him.
Ok so he did not know he was there and could not react. Well as soon as the caltrops dropped a field of red shows. As soon as you are imobbed you know it. React just as you do if you see it coming and failed to avoid it.
Caltrops has always been a utility that did damage without revealing a thief . The person would have been imobbed whether the thief visible or not.
The issue is not the runes. the issue is not stealth. What happened is the player in question got IMOBBED in a field that applied bleeds via caltrops.
The issue was the immobilize. One more time. I die on many toons when I am imobbed in a field that is doing damage. whether the person stealthed whle he did it is not material.
if the thief popped out of hiding and sang swanee river as he did the soft shoe the op still would have died because the immobilize and caltrops killed him.
Ok so he did not know he was there and could not react. Well as soon as the caltrops dropped a field of red shows. As soon as you are imobbed you know it. React just as you do if you see it coming and failed to avoid it.
You know the GW2 playerbase, they’re not happy with “just run away”
I tried to tell that to 10 people camping a ghost thief today – it didn’t work. I was accused to be a thief lover though – well, they’re not wrong with that. A strong argument was also that “necros just can’t run away as they’re sooo slow”.
I like how it’s starting to stray into the stealth line that no one (QQ’ing) cares about.
So guys the question is:
Should we nerf trapper rune, for everyone
Or
Ensure that there’s direct damage on all traps across all classes?
Both effectively sending the traps back to chillin with the dust bunnies at the corner of useless street.
There already is direct damage on all of the other class’ traps, excluding Ranger’s Healing Spring. I’m not even suggesting that thieves have all of their traps deal direct damage, only Needle Trap and Tripwire. Ambush and Shadow Trap don’t really make sense to deal direct damage, and they don’t apply conditions by their self either so they should be fine not dealing any damage.
If Trapper Runes got nerfed too much without making traps themselves stronger in compensation, then I agree, traps would probably be left in the dust.
Also, on a side note, it’s a little hard to see but the thief landed 4 needle traps on the ranger within the first 15 seconds of the video. He also landed a fifth it looks like right before the ranger died around the 20 second mark. That means he must have taken Trappers Respite and Improvisation and got quite lucky, recharging the traps traps at least once from stealing (unless there are 2 ghost thieves in the video? we can’t see them to really know).
The issue is not the runes. the issue is not stealth. What happened is the player in question got IMOBBED in a field that applied bleeds via caltrops.
The issue was the immobilize. One more time. I die on many toons when I am imobbed in a field that is doing damage. whether the person stealthed whle he did it is not material.
if the thief popped out of hiding and sang swanee river as he did the soft shoe the op still would have died because the immobilize and caltrops killed him.
Ok so he did not know he was there and could not react. Well as soon as the caltrops dropped a field of red shows. As soon as you are imobbed you know it. React just as you do if you see it coming and failed to avoid it.
You know the GW2 playerbase, they’re not happy with “just run away”
I tried to tell that to 10 people camping a ghost thief today – it didn’t work. I was accused to be a thief lover though – well, they’re not wrong with that. A strong argument was also that “necros just can’t run away as they’re sooo slow”.
precisely. All you need to do is treat the immob as you would any other. Use your withdraw or RFI if you a thief. use your lightning reflexes if a ranger. You do not have to stand there waiting to be imobbed again. Move around. A thief using this build is going to waste all his ini maintining stealth with powder and heartseeker. Just ignore him and move on.
I like how it’s starting to stray into the stealth line that no one (QQ’ing) cares about.
So guys the question is:
Should we nerf trapper rune, for everyone
Or
Ensure that there’s direct damage on all traps across all classes?
Both effectively sending the traps back to chillin with the dust bunnies at the corner of useless street.
There already is direct damage on all of the other class’ traps, excluding Ranger’s Healing Spring. I’m not even suggesting that thieves have all of their traps deal direct damage, only Needle Trap and Tripwire. Ambush and Shadow Trap don’t really make sense to deal direct damage, and they don’t apply conditions by their self either so they should be fine not dealing any damage.
If Trapper Runes got nerfed too much without making traps themselves stronger in compensation, then I agree, traps would probably be left in the dust.
All or nothing. This is half as’ed implementation correct? And you want to make a “half” change?
I like how it’s starting to stray into the stealth line that no one (QQ’ing) cares about.
So guys the question is:
Should we nerf trapper rune, for everyone
Or
Ensure that there’s direct damage on all traps across all classes?
Both effectively sending the traps back to chillin with the dust bunnies at the corner of useless street.
There already is direct damage on all of the other class’ traps, excluding Ranger’s Healing Spring. I’m not even suggesting that thieves have all of their traps deal direct damage, only Needle Trap and Tripwire. Ambush and Shadow Trap don’t really make sense to deal direct damage, and they don’t apply conditions by their self either so they should be fine not dealing any damage.
If Trapper Runes got nerfed too much without making traps themselves stronger in compensation, then I agree, traps would probably be left in the dust.
Also, on a side note, it’s a little hard to see but the thief landed 4 needle traps on the ranger within the first 15 seconds of the video. He also landed a fifth it looks like right before the ranger died around the 20 second mark. That means he must have taken Trappers Respite and Improvisation and got quite lucky, recharging the traps traps at least once from stealing (unless there are 2 ghost thieves in the video? we can’t see them to really know).
trappers respite does not reset on the improv trait.( At least did not when last i tested) In order to get 4 needles in 15 seconds there had to be two thiefs. I do not see any indication a steal occurred. it more then likely there were two thieves both using the Immob in sequence.
Theoretical max on a thief would be respite/ needle trap for two. respite goes on cooldown and is not avilable for another 30 seconds (24 if traited). steal get one more if trap improv kicks in.
two of any class can make for a bad day especially if there stealth. We had a number of us dealing with two PU mesmers. eventually it just not worth it. move along.
I like how it’s starting to stray into the stealth line that no one (QQ’ing) cares about.
So guys the question is:
Should we nerf trapper rune, for everyone
Or
Ensure that there’s direct damage on all traps across all classes?
Both effectively sending the traps back to chillin with the dust bunnies at the corner of useless street.
There already is direct damage on all of the other class’ traps, excluding Ranger’s Healing Spring. I’m not even suggesting that thieves have all of their traps deal direct damage, only Needle Trap and Tripwire. Ambush and Shadow Trap don’t really make sense to deal direct damage, and they don’t apply conditions by their self either so they should be fine not dealing any damage.
If Trapper Runes got nerfed too much without making traps themselves stronger in compensation, then I agree, traps would probably be left in the dust.
All or nothing. This is half as’ed implementation correct? And you want to make a “half” change?
Not entirely sure what you’re saying, but why do all traps need to deal direct damage or none at all? Do you think Ambush and Shadow Trap make sense dealing direct damage? If so I disagree. They don’t apply any conditions or hint at any kind of pain being inflicted by the traps in their descriptions, unlike just about every other trap in the game. That would also impact Shadow Trap’s roll over skill if you got revealed from the initial trigger.
Also, on a side note, it’s a little hard to see but the thief landed 4 needle traps on the ranger within the first 15 seconds of the video. He also landed a fifth it looks like right before the ranger died around the 20 second mark. That means he must have taken Trappers Respite and Improvisation and got quite lucky, recharging the traps traps at least once from stealing (unless there are 2 ghost thieves in the video? we can’t see them to really know).
trappers respite does not reset on the improv trait.( At least did not when last i tested) In order to get 4 needles in 15 seconds there had to be two thiefs. I do not see any indication a steal occurred. it more then likely there were two thieves both using the Immob in sequence.
Theoretical max on a thief would be respite/ needle trap for two. respite goes on cooldown and is not avilable for another 30 seconds. steal get one more if trap imrpov kicks in.
Oh I didn’t know that. If you’re right about Improvisation not recharging the Needle Trap from Trappers Respite, then there must be 2 thieves in the video attacking the ranger with traps.
just a side note: devs themself said that wvw was never ment to be balanced… trapper thief is a joke in pvp so no matter how much someone would complain about this build it won’t get touched (nor i think it should tbh, it is only good vs new players w/o condi cleanse)
I like how it’s starting to stray into the stealth line that no one (QQ’ing) cares about.
So guys the question is:
Should we nerf trapper rune, for everyone
Or
Ensure that there’s direct damage on all traps across all classes?
Both effectively sending the traps back to chillin with the dust bunnies at the corner of useless street.
There already is direct damage on all of the other class’ traps, excluding Ranger’s Healing Spring. I’m not even suggesting that thieves have all of their traps deal direct damage, only Needle Trap and Tripwire. Ambush and Shadow Trap don’t really make sense to deal direct damage, and they don’t apply conditions by their self either so they should be fine not dealing any damage.
If Trapper Runes got nerfed too much without making traps themselves stronger in compensation, then I agree, traps would probably be left in the dust.
All or nothing. This is half as’ed implementation correct? And you want to make a “half” change?
Not entirely sure what you’re saying, but why do all traps need to deal direct damage or none at all? Do you think Ambush and Shadow Trap make sense dealing direct damage? If so I disagree. They don’t apply any conditions or hint at any kind of pain being inflicted by the traps in their descriptions, unlike just about every other trap in the game. That would also impact Shadow Trap’s roll over skill if you got revealed from the initial trigger.
Also, on a side note, it’s a little hard to see but the thief landed 4 needle traps on the ranger within the first 15 seconds of the video. He also landed a fifth it looks like right before the ranger died around the 20 second mark. That means he must have taken Trappers Respite and Improvisation and got quite lucky, recharging the traps traps at least once from stealing (unless there are 2 ghost thieves in the video? we can’t see them to really know).
trappers respite does not reset on the improv trait.( At least did not when last i tested) In order to get 4 needles in 15 seconds there had to be two thiefs. I do not see any indication a steal occurred. it more then likely there were two thieves both using the Immob in sequence.
Theoretical max on a thief would be respite/ needle trap for two. respite goes on cooldown and is not avilable for another 30 seconds. steal get one more if trap imrpov kicks in.
Oh I didn’t know that. If you’re right about Improvisation not recharging the Needle Trap from Trappers Respite, then there must be 2 thieves in the video attacking the ranger with traps.
It was one of the things we submitted as a bug, this coupled with the cooldown from reduction did not happen either. They did fix the cooldown thing so respite can go on a 24 second cooldown but I am not aware of them changing improv to trip respite.
I might have to test again as the same issue happened with flanking strikes as a trick. it was not getting reset via improv.
just a side note: devs themself said that wvw was never ment to be balanced… trapper thief is a joke in pvp so no matter how much someone would complain about this build it won’t get touched (nor i think it should tbh, it is only good vs new players w/o condi cleanse)
Right. Because most the complaints ever made haven’t been from WvW and none of them had anything done about them.
Been hearing a lot about trap thieves and the ridiculousness of this spec but I hadn’t experienced it until now. Needless to say my angus was not peppered.
just a side note: devs themself said that wvw was never ment to be balanced… trapper thief is a joke in pvp so no matter how much someone would complain about this build it won’t get touched (nor i think it should tbh, it is only good vs new players w/o condi cleanse)
Every other game on the planet manages to balance things. Arenanet is jsut lazy/ doesn’t give a kitten about WvW.
Don’t for a second buy that they can’t balance things.
Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.
By the way I looked at video again. The person in question ran over stacked traps. meaning more than one in same place.
You are going to get a negative result anytime this happens whether the person who laid them stealthed ot not or even in the area. Rangers can stack their traps as well and do not need trappers runes to do it. I do not think there was two thives. It appears he hit two prestacked traps and evaded back. The theif was waiting in stealth LIKELY using d/p not traps and then stole to the person while dropping another immob (BA triggered). He then dropped tripwire/caltrops.
The outcome was due to stacking CC and not because the person had stealth.
I keep suggesting it and I will suggest it again… Traps have to “reveal” once triggered. Done. It might be an all-around nerf to trap builds, but I don’t believe Trapper Rune was thought out to chain trap into remaining in stealth forever while hurting your opponent to begin with.
A more thief-specific fix would be to straight off introduce a damage component to thief traps. Either a small damage just to trigger reveal or a higher damage (with reduced condi to remain balance) which would potentially make Trapper Power builds or Celestial builds even viable.
All trappers would be happy → Condi trapper thieves would be nerfed -- eventhough its blatantly broken and should’ve been long ago.
Guy guys guys…The thief in the video was me. Cherry Fang from TC [Hats] guild.
The OP did the best he could in his situation from my perspective. I did indeed prelay the traps at the narrow gate so everything was off cooldown and I was already stealthed. I got lucky with the “steal” skill reset so that’s why I was able to pop so many traps in short duration.
You can watch some of my other videos from my perspective on one of my recent posts.
Guy guys guys…The thief in the video was me. Cherry Fang from TC [Hats] guild.
The OP did the best he could in his situation from my perspective. I did indeed prelay the traps at the narrow gate so everything was off cooldown and I was already stealthed. I got lucky with the “steal” skill reset so that’s why I was able to pop so many traps in short duration.
You can watch some of my other videos from my perspective on one of my recent posts.
-Cheers!
I can confirm this is the thief. I’m actually interested to hear what you think about the build since you play it.
Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.
Guy guys guys…The thief in the video was me. Cherry Fang from TC [Hats] guild.
The OP did the best he could in his situation from my perspective. I did indeed prelay the traps at the narrow gate so everything was off cooldown and I was already stealthed. I got lucky with the “steal” skill reset so that’s why I was able to pop so many traps in short duration.
You can watch some of my other videos from my perspective on one of my recent posts.
-Cheers!
I can confirm this is the thief. I’m actually interested to hear what you think about the build since you play it.
I’m a bit interested why won’t you give it a try yourself?
Really what killed the guy was not stealth . it was two traps tripped at once followed by the thief in question dropping more in quick succession with that BA and a reset of traps with Improv.
You can do this with a number of skills with improv without stealth. As example if you trait venoms and get venoms to reset as soon as you load on max stacks of your venoms, the enemy in for a world of hurt. Another place this can work is dropping caltrops followed by an Immob (devourer) getting that reset on tricks allowing you to drop caltrops again. If your panic strike kicks in and or you got basi the guy can be caught there for some time.
The advantage with traps is you can stack the two on a given area, have those same two ready to go as you wait for a trigger and then get two more if improv kicks your way. The thief in question could have done this without stealth off trappers. The stealth off trappers did allow the thief to remain in area without being seen by players passing through but stealth is there for that very reason.
The problem of course is there few areas where you can be sure people will pass through to get those pre stacked traps to trigger meaning this requires setting them up and then a whole pile of waiting around.
if they nerf trapper rune way more rangers than thiefs will QQ , thats for sure.!
Also, there were 2 moments when he was not rooted + he can still use skills – but he backpaddeled.
And he used his heal when there was no real need to use it … did you even see a full condi ranger in action , he would die in half the time .
You know the GW2 playerbase, they’re not happy with “just run away”
I wonder if those are the same people that are defending the current thief meta of running around in circles really fast and being unable to actually fight stuff in pvp.
Former running-really-fast-man. Now proud member of Revenant clan.
Perma stealth trap thief is not op. But imo it is bad design, if somebody is able to deal dmg and kill ppl without being visible ever. Just like it is bad design, to create a class/build which can’t survive otherwise …
People don’t want the rune of the trapper nerf, instead only specifically the thief.
Yes because the runes are not the problem? They function the same way on Guardian and on Ranger and there’s no issue.
But the way thief traps are set up allows them to stay perma stealthed which is ridiculous. Why nerf the runes when you could just add direct damage to traps to bring them in line with the others?
They used to do direct damage and the traps were garbage, mostly because of how dependent thief is on stealth.
Usually against any decent players they will still be garbage and a non-issue unless there is a party of these guys.
Come HoT that thief will just be glint revealed and rekt.
also if people keep movin into ur blind field, it gets alot harder to keep up stealth.
but only very few ppl do that vs me.
BUG? : u can also cast hide in shadows and interrupt(dogge/weapon swap) it to spawn needle trap + get its stealth but keeping ur heal , u can activate that trap then more often(24s vs 30s) without having to reduce the heal cd. and well u keep ur heal for
when its needed
What’s amazing is that it’s been here since the release of trapper’s runes. Ranger’s had their abuse of these runes and now a ranger is killed by them and urge to nerf thiefs specifically.
Nonsense…
Now, there is 2 kind of balance answer :
- add back a DD damaging component part to the thief traps. (Free damage, the OP could see this as an injust buff to the hated thief)
- nerf the trappers rune in some kind of way. (No way that would be a direct nerf to the ranger for sure)
None of these would make a big difference in the end but maybe we could call this “balanced”?
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
If traps get direct damage that reveals us, at least give us an animation of our dumb thieves screaming " YUSSSSSS !!! " every time our traps are triggered please.
((Cause of death perma immob))
" NERF ALL THE STEALTH !!!! "
((stealth nerfed))
((More violent deaths from same immob))
" STEALTH WASN’T NERFED ENOUGH !!! "
This exactly. The death occurred due to multiple Immobs. Stealth was not a major factor. It was immob. If I share devourer using venomous aura with 5 guys and someone gets wrecked because of it we are bound to have people blame stealth.
I’ve already posted the precise series of events, traps and actions the thief took in this instance.
Yet people are discussing whether the traps should reveal. To be crystal fricken clear – the outcome would have been exactly the same. He wasn’t killed by stealth, he wasn’t killed by direct damage (backstab) from stealth.
He was killed by conditions.
Period, that’s it, that’s all. Whether the thief was visible and sb away would make no odds at all. He doesn’t need to be in stealth to drop the trap – he can pre-cast and steal to have it land on arrival. You couldn’t have avoided that either unless you started dodging instantly after the cleanse. All that placing a trap does is grant you stealth with the trapper runes and some super speed to move away; other runes would increase condi damage.
Seriously, the stealth isn’t the problem on this – the double condi bomb ability of off-cooldown traps (from being prelaid) are. Ranger can do the same if I’m not mistaken…
I’ve already posted the precise series of events, traps and actions the thief took in this instance.
Yet people are discussing whether the traps should reveal. To be crystal fricken clear – the outcome would have been exactly the same. He wasn’t killed by stealth, he wasn’t killed by direct damage (backstab) from stealth.
He was killed by conditions.
Period, that’s it, that’s all. Whether the thief was visible and sb away would make no odds at all. He doesn’t need to be in stealth to drop the trap – he can pre-cast and steal to have it land on arrival. You couldn’t have avoided that either unless you started dodging instantly after the cleanse. All that placing a trap does is grant you stealth with the trapper runes and some super speed to move away; other runes would increase condi damage.
Seriously, the stealth isn’t the problem on this – the double condi bomb ability of off-cooldown traps (from being prelaid) are. Ranger can do the same if I’m not mistaken…
Nope the issue is the stealth because I had zero idea he was there. can’t activate pet…. can’t use any weapon skills… etc.
Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.
holy crap this thread is still going. and here i thought there was nothing left on thief to nerf. maybe make infiltrator’s arrow only 400 range, and don’t let infiltrator’s strike or signet be used from out of range. then you lock the profession from character creation and wait for the thief community to die out.
I keep suggesting it and I will suggest it again… Traps have to “reveal” once triggered. Done. It might be an all-around nerf to trap builds, but I don’t believe Trapper Rune was thought out to chain trap into remaining in stealth forever while hurting your opponent to begin with.
A more thief-specific fix would be to straight off introduce a damage component to thief traps. Either a small damage just to trigger reveal or a higher damage (with reduced condi to remain balance) which would potentially make Trapper Power builds or Celestial builds even viable.
All trappers would be happy -> Condi trapper thieves would be nerfed -- eventhough its blatantly broken and should’ve been long ago.
+1
Any trap that hurts an enemy should apply damage and force reveal. It doesn’t matter if the thief’s defenses are in stealth; I play without SA on a reveal-heavy build and have few problems. Strictly speaking, the stealth only really matters in sPvP when you need it to get across the map unopposed for decapping. Not to mention that the thief’s traps are actually really potent in regards to effects. Just bolstering damage from them a bit would be enough to make them usable but not spammable with trapper runes. I’m sick of the attitude from a lot of the people in this community that thieves need to be superior in their tricky nature and stealth but should be superior at no risk or difficulty. Not saying they should be less powerful, but if thieves want to be tricky, they better utilize mind games or simply being better than their opponent instead of just cheesing stealth and facerolling the keyboard.
Even P/D dire condi is so easy that I have literally gone into WvW playing the game with my face entirely and beaten people. People have won without weapons, and so forth. Trap application for more stealth isn’t a good answer to the class’s problems.
I keep suggesting it and I will suggest it again… Traps have to “reveal” once triggered. Done. It might be an all-around nerf to trap builds, but I don’t believe Trapper Rune was thought out to chain trap into remaining in stealth forever while hurting your opponent to begin with.
A more thief-specific fix would be to straight off introduce a damage component to thief traps. Either a small damage just to trigger reveal or a higher damage (with reduced condi to remain balance) which would potentially make Trapper Power builds or Celestial builds even viable.
All trappers would be happy -> Condi trapper thieves would be nerfed -- eventhough its blatantly broken and should’ve been long ago.
+1
Any trap that hurts an enemy should apply damage and force reveal. It doesn’t matter if the thief’s defenses are in stealth; I play without SA on a reveal-heavy build and have few problems. Strictly speaking, the stealth only really matters in sPvP when you need it to get across the map unopposed for decapping. Not to mention that the thief’s traps are actually really potent in regards to effects. Just bolstering damage from them a bit would be enough to make them usable but not spammable with trapper runes. I’m sick of the attitude from a lot of the people in this community that thieves need to be superior in their tricky nature and stealth but should be superior at no risk or difficulty. Not saying they should be less powerful, but if thieves want to be tricky, they better utilize mind games or simply being better than their opponent instead of just cheesing stealth and facerolling the keyboard.
Even P/D dire condi is so easy that I have literally gone into WvW playing the game with my face entirely and beaten people. People have won without weapons, and so forth. Trap application for more stealth isn’t a good answer to the class’s problems.
both of you seem to be ignoring the fact that thief traps not doing damage was a deliberate dev decision that took place less than 6 months ago, long after trapper runes became a thing.
it speaks volumes to how useless traps are to thieves with a damage component that most people don’t seem to realize they used to do damage, which is precisely why you never, ever saw any thief running traps.
both of you seem to be ignoring the fact that thief traps not doing damage was a deliberate dev decision that took place less than 6 months ago, long after trapper runes became a thing.
it speaks volumes to how useless traps are to thieves with a damage component that most people don’t seem to realize they used to do damage, which is precisely why you never, ever saw any thief running traps.
I don’t think traps should only be useful if you are able to permanently stealth yourself while using them. It’s not a fun encounter for the other player and it’s pretty one sided, being able to kill someone while remaining invisible for the entire encounter. Needle Trap needs some direct damage added back to it and possibly Tripwire as well. They both make sense to deal direct damage, and if they end up not being used after that then maybe they need a buff in other ways (the proposed buffs I suggested earlier could be enough).
Traps have been slowly getting buffed over time (Needle Trap got a poison duration increase in the same update that it had its direct damage removed), so I’m not sure that thieves only use the traps now purely because the direct damage got removed. You can plan around some of the traps dealing direct damage anyway, such as actually using a stealth attack before it gets triggered.
I’ve already posted the precise series of events, traps and actions the thief took in this instance.
Yet people are discussing whether the traps should reveal. To be crystal fricken clear – the outcome would have been exactly the same. He wasn’t killed by stealth, he wasn’t killed by direct damage (backstab) from stealth.
He was killed by conditions.
Period, that’s it, that’s all. Whether the thief was visible and sb away would make no odds at all. He doesn’t need to be in stealth to drop the trap – he can pre-cast and steal to have it land on arrival. You couldn’t have avoided that either unless you started dodging instantly after the cleanse. All that placing a trap does is grant you stealth with the trapper runes and some super speed to move away; other runes would increase condi damage.
Seriously, the stealth isn’t the problem on this – the double condi bomb ability of off-cooldown traps (from being prelaid) are. Ranger can do the same if I’m not mistaken…
Nope the issue is the stealth because I had zero idea he was there. can’t activate pet…. can’t use any weapon skills… etc.
You do realise he wasn’t phyiscally there at the time you tripped the first traps. From then on you were dead. Stealth didn’t kill you, the re-application of condi heavy traps did.
I’ve laid traps and fought whilst revealed by “sic em” and the ranger died. It negated my shadow refuge, it negated stealth on a trap being laid… the ranger still died.
Video available if required Trapper thief 1v1 in wvw with stacks is incredibly powerful.
I’ve already posted the precise series of events, traps and actions the thief took in this instance.
Yet people are discussing whether the traps should reveal. To be crystal fricken clear – the outcome would have been exactly the same. He wasn’t killed by stealth, he wasn’t killed by direct damage (backstab) from stealth.
He was killed by conditions.
Period, that’s it, that’s all. Whether the thief was visible and sb away would make no odds at all. He doesn’t need to be in stealth to drop the trap – he can pre-cast and steal to have it land on arrival. You couldn’t have avoided that either unless you started dodging instantly after the cleanse. All that placing a trap does is grant you stealth with the trapper runes and some super speed to move away; other runes would increase condi damage.
Seriously, the stealth isn’t the problem on this – the double condi bomb ability of off-cooldown traps (from being prelaid) are. Ranger can do the same if I’m not mistaken…
Nope the issue is the stealth because I had zero idea he was there. can’t activate pet…. can’t use any weapon skills… etc.
You do realise he wasn’t phyiscally there at the time you tripped the first traps. From then on you were dead. Stealth didn’t kill you, the re-application of condi heavy traps did.
I’ve laid traps and fought whilst revealed by “sic em” and the ranger died. It negated my shadow refuge, it negated stealth on a trap being laid… the ranger still died.
Video available if required Trapper thief 1v1 in wvw with stacks is incredibly powerful.
It would require a lot more risk to place the second set if he wasn’t invisible the whole time. Obviously when you can see them running up to drop traps you can respond… but I didn’t know he was there until the second ones got thrown at which point it was too late anyway.
Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.
It would require a lot more risk to place the second set if he wasn’t invisible the whole time. Obviously when you can see them running up to drop traps you can respond… but I didn’t know he was there until the second ones got thrown at which point it was too late anyway.
You’d be surprised. With a pure condi build and ~24k of health the thief can actually stand right on top of the player whilst the spike hard – drop the traps (visible the entire time) and then dodge out (leaving caltrops). Once guard stacks are removed they can be less bold.
I’m actually all for putting damage back on the traps after some thought. Since they’re on a 25s cooldown about 3k direct damage should suffice.
This is kinda my view of how people are complaining about the trap thief It’s similar to being told “thief is fine because it still rolls in top teams in pvp”.
Since this build isn’t top team pvp meta I guess that means it’s underpowered?
I really do think most people here need to try playing the game better than expecting to win against every single build.
It’s similar to being told “thief is fine because it still rolls in top teams in pvp”.