Guild Wars 2

Hey guys !

I was just watching caed’s stream and after one hour watching, something caught my mind. He was never using heartseek ! only using AA and blackpowder, sometimes a barage of headshot and some well timed shadowshot.
His gameplay is completely different from mine which rely a lot more on shadowshot and HS. I’m also not that much in stealth during fights.

Then the obvious question came to my mind..How to play thief ? I mean, we are all discussing about builds – runes, traits but those are pretty much standards by now ( to a few variations ). What about the core of the thief which is us, the players and the way we embrace our profession ?

As for myself,

• when I play d/p I’m more frenetic about doing dammage, I mostly rely on a combo of AA, shadow shot for gap closing and blind ( I tend to abuse that one ). I mostly use blackpowder for defensive purpose relying more on the blind field than it’s capacity to provide stealth.
  In the end I don’t use stealth that much, mainly to engage with the combo blackpowder + bound + steal +backstab.

• As for shortbow, I use it as soon as there is a downed & a reviver, a stealth zone or a teamfight in a tight area so that I can spam cluster bomb. I don’t stomp light armor ennemis but instead I finish them with shortbow cluster. It’s depends of the sitation with medium armor characters.

I’m really interested in the way you guys play your thief, which skills do you use in a weapon set, which one is not even worth mentioning for you. Your vision of the play, when you disengage, when do you temporize… If you could state your experience with the corresponding weapon set I would be really gratefull ! Sometimes, a slight meaningless tip for you means the biggest revelation in their life time for someone else !

Anything that will annoy the kitten out of whoever your fighting, and for me currently in wvw it’s
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAsan0MBVOhFmCmOBkmilriaO6z+vvbBmuAwbDygPA-T1QRABLfCAU+BAAw+DCCwcA-w

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Anything that will annoy the kitten out of whoever your fighting, and for me currently in wvw it’s
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAsan0MBVOhFmCmOBkmilriaO6z+vvbBmuAwbDygPA-T1QRABLfCAU+BAAw+DCCwcA-w

THe build is good but how do you play it ? what skill do you rely on the most ? What kind of engage do you do ? is it steal + pistol whip ? or do you engage with #2 and use pistol whip only for defensive purpose ?

You see, there is a lot of question behind a build, which was the point of my thread.

My build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVn0MBlOhVmCGmC8PhFYCbOEeCbheph4QbQLBEAyAA-TZBFABiXGggDBQ87PAwTA4hTAAA

Gameplay:

Fighting:
My opener is: Basilisk Venom>Heartseeker>Steal>Fist Flurry>Palm Strike

This is huge damage and with the Sigil of Rage (3secs of Quickness on Crit) you get the full combo off very consistently.

After the Palm Strike they may be dead. If not, I will generally either:- Black Powder>Heartseeker>Backstab or auto attack or what ever the fight requires.

Another combo to get the full Fist Flurry>Palm Stike off is to use Bandit’s Defense then after a successful block > Reflexive Strike > Fist Flurry > Palm Strike.

If I want to stay in a fight for a while, I’ll use blinds more than stealth. I tend not to rely on stealth much accept for versus another Thief.

The burst this setup can do, on a low cooldown absolutely eats people. It’s fairly easy to burst repeatedly. Fist time with Basilisk Venom, then stay in the fight, perhaps kite a little, then 16 secs later burst again with a Bandit’s Defense setup. Then within another 20 secs Basilisk Venom will be off cooldown and on it goes.

I find if say a necro is holding a point and my first burst doesn’t kill him, I can kite out and keep just close enough to keep us both in combat so he doesn’t get his HP back, then go in for another burst. I win many ‘longer’ fights against more sustain-ey builds this way.

As a +1, this is pretty much a guaranteed kill against anything with 70%hp mid fight. Let them blow a few defensives, let the auto blocks/fears etc get used up then jump in to help your team mate by melting his opponent.

Mobility:
This build is very mobile. Dash is great and gives perma-swiftness, Shadow Step is an incredible life saver and of course shortbow 5.

Playstyle:
Roamer of course… to me this means always looking for where you can make the biggest impact. And this brings me to why I play Thief and what I consider to be the difference between a good thief and a great one – Decision Making.

Once you have a good set-up and can play the class well, Decision Making is going to make or break you. Being in the right place at the right time, choosing the right target and not wasting a second is everything.

…And a big part of this is knowing when to GTFO… Disengaging is an art form imo. Being able to tangle up 1-3 other players then escape with <20% HP and perhaps lead them a merry dance for another 10-30secs can have a huge impact on a game leaving your team 4v3 elsewhere.

Good players don’t usually chase, but even they sometimes over commit thinking they’re going to finish you off only to waste time or, as happens frequently, have the tables turned on them because everything, including my heal is on very low cooldown.

Things a good thief instantly recognises:
Who to kill
Who to avoid (did someone say Dragon Hunter)
When to disengage
Where to be

I never cap a point or stomp if there is someone else around to do it.

I use all the skills on both weapon sets. Headshots for Impacting Disruption are always nice to pull off. Shortbow does OK damage if you’re just sidelining for a bit. If I arrive at a team fight and there’s too much ‘area of effect’ damage around for me to dive into I’ll use it for a few secs while I look for my moment. Also I use Shortbow 3 to good effect for extra evades while I’m waiting for cooldowns to come back up or to help disengage.

For my playstyle – high mobility and high burst – I don’t tend to change the Traits or Utilities around much. I have experimented with taking Havoc Mastery (+7% Damage) over Brawler’s Tenacity, but you just don’t really need the 7% damage and I prefer the cooldown reduction on the physical skills – but I think if anything was changed, this would be it.

I could go on, but it’s late so I’m disengaging!

Great idea for a thread, hope some others share how they Thief it up…

Wargameur.6950:

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Anything that will annoy the kitten out of whoever your fighting, and for me currently in wvw it’s
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAsan0MBVOhFmCmOBkmilriaO6z+vvbBmuAwbDygPA-T1QRABLfCAU+BAAw+DCCwcA-w

THe build is good but how do you play it ? what skill do you rely on the most ? What kind of engage do you do ? is it steal + pistol whip ? or do you engage with #2 and use pistol whip only for defensive purpose ?

You see, there is a lot of question behind a build, which was the point of my thread.

Whoops, that was only half my post, that’s what happened when I go forum surfing on the toilet at work on my phone .

But anyways, for that build specifically, I usually just use sword 2 to open and try to land a pistolwhip to interrupt. I save my steal for when they have stab up since it prioritizes stab for stealing boons, I believe it’s aegis first then stab? Or something like that, but I go for a very defensive, hit and run style. I like to save all my utilities for when they go for a burst of a condi bomb so I can gain some distance to recover from it, especially my bas venom to convert those condis. But that’s pretty much my main concern with this build, watching condis on me, and watching my initiative, everything else is just profit since I either evade that will heal my hp and initiative, or interrupt that will heal and steal boons.

Hope that make since , drunk foruming again ????????

My build: [Link]

Actually kinda surprised. Wasn’t expecting to see another Fist Flurry thief. My build is pretty much the same as Dirtyrascal’s build. If you count the differences there’s only seven with three being in sigils/runes, and four in traits/utility skills.

I play a heavy +1/rotation/team-oriented way. Might seem obvious as that’s how most thieves play. But I think I differ in that I don’t even take things like Blinding Powder, Bandit’s defense, Widthdraw, or even Basilisk Venom which are hugely beneficial in 1v1 matchups (Some of these are definitely useful from a non 1v1 perspective, but I digress). This doesn’t mean I run away from every 1v1 scenario. Just that if I do go into them it’s with the realization that I’m definitely not optimized for the scenario.

I like to aggressively go for decaps. For instance on Foefire if someone’s standing on a ledge and providing ranged support on a cliff to mid. Then I’ll keep tabs on them and the second they choose to walk off the ledge I’ll rotate for the decap. Sometimes I’ll go for the decap even if they’re still on the ledge. Knowing that I can make it to the point and decap it before they can get there. Same for Nifhel. I keep track on the number of enemies known on the map and if I know there’s someone who left or I see leaving their bunker position I’ll go for a decap. I run Agility + Channeled Vigor to support frequent decapping though. The latter giving 85 endurance on a 16s cd.

With Impact Strike and Fist Flurry I actually don’t mind having to go into teamfights. Fist Flurry excels in non 1v1 scenarios since defenses get blown more often and you can use it as a follow up to your allies hard CC. I don’t think it’s worth traiting Baslisk Venom or Quickness to get the combo off. I prefer Impact Strike’s added DPS/stomping potential. Plus you can cancel the last hit to try and go for Fist Flurry during the 2s of knockup from Uppercut.

In teamfighting I focus targets whenever possible. But also tend to just fight on the edge of the teamfight to avoid damage. Sometimes instead of going for the team target I’ll go after squishies, who I recognize as they’re likely also fighting on the edge of the fight, to pressure them off the battle. I go for Fist Flurry and weave in/out whenever the situation calls for it. In +1’ing Fist Flurry is also good as Dirtyrascal has said.

Also just an aside as this thing isn’t really thief specific. But I pay a lot of attention to class invulns and more or less just stop everything whenever I see one. Normally wouldn’t mention this. But recently just saw a commentated vid of a thief where the player spammed three headshots into a ranger who had Signet of Stone active. Throwing a “Yeah! Got the interrupt!” shortly after their Pulmonry Impact did zero damage o_o.

Another aside, but BP -> Headshot is an alright combo if you want to mix up your playstyle. Headshot blinding due to the combo finisher.

Edit: Also wanted to say that another thing I do is keep track of respawn timers. If I know someone just got stomped I’ll factor in the respawn into where I do/don’t rotate. Also if I just downed someone 1v1 or whatnot then I’ll manually countdown to 15 to get them on spawn again. Usually faking a different direction while their stomped body is still there in order to go to spawn as soon as it disappears. I think a sudden, unexpected, stealth-burst from spawn right after you’ve killed someone is a great way to kill their morale. Which usually means you can expect them to misplay or just play worser in the ensuing spawn-fight.

In WvW, I just steal to people and dagger auto-attack them to death.

Simonoly.4352:

In WvW, I just steal to people and dagger auto-attack them to death.

Please post a video of you doing this. I’m obviously over-complicating things when I play thief.

Take their points, take their buffs, take their sanity – take their lives.

i play s/d. i’m patient. i evade shlt. opponent takes some damage. i evade more shlt. opponent dies after time… or not.

I will just say for d/p: it heavily depends on who/what you are fighting and in what situation as well as on what map you are. Simple examples: headshotting DH is almost pointless as traps are instant. HS is pointless unless someone is low and running away. Shadowshot can be good to get to someone on balcony, it is pointless if your target is in mid of enemy aoe etc.

Then there is also personal thing: every player plays bit different even if they run same build. I knew mes that would instagib most thieves by executing shatter combos at ridiculous speed. His weakness was however how predictable he was (in a sense, because after couple of engages his tactics started to vary): when he saw me go in stealth, he counted and used shatter expecting me to go for backstab. Meanwhile i was camping stealth for few sec longer waiting for him to waste his CDs and attacked him when he had almost nothing left because i knew his playstyle. Other time i would come out of stealth for sec and then instead of pressuring him, run away and hide, leaving him with the choice of wasting CDs or risk and wait to get stabbed (those were truly fun matches due to mindgames, he is really good player and could down me with ease if i did 1 mistake).

Another example: i tended to queue into same thief that always used steal if i got basi opener on him. Shadowshot right after backstab usually sufficed to prevent his steal and down him eventually. Unlike the mesmer above that thief sadly didn’t try different tactics.

Then there were your average mesmers that did the same rotation at same boring speed like everyone else. You literary could see every spell coming and act to it accordingly before he even used it.

The problem is of course you need to know player style (then again if your rating is high enough and/or you play during off-hours you face same people over and over and over and over again).

WvW S/D power+control build

IS->AA->AA->CnD->IR

rinse and repeat (85% success rate)

Cynz.9437:

Then there is also personal thing: every player plays bit different even if they run same build..

that’s exactly what I’m after ! All those answers are really interesting and I think I will take into account some few things for my next matches

I’m also using fist furry + basilic venom, it’s really effective on most ( if not all except revs ) classes. I don’t hesitate to obliterate someone at 2.000 range for max surprise effect even at the cost of heavy cooldown with the combo basilic venom + shadowstep + HS + steal + fistflurry.

I normally start of with shortbow vs most people. If its an ele I will just jump them and try to beat them up enough for them to go in earth and then steal them.

Been hocked back on s/d again so most of my fights can take its time compared to staff or d/p. Also I have disabled aa on sword so I have a better chance to use flanking strike when I need to evade rather then to just proc ls.

Sometimes I tend to let the enemy lead the fight and react on what my oponent is doing (scrappers and DH)
Other times I try to take the lead, vs mesmer or another thief I try to be as agresive as possible.

If you are playing s/d then your defense isn’t dodges or evades, it is your distance from the enemy. For example, if you are fighting a rev and he has his Glint heal up, your objective should be to get as far away as possible (but still be able to come back after the heal is done) because he will be on full offensive mode and if you’re lucky, he will waste some cooldowns on empty air. Use Dagger 4 when you are a distance, but don’t waste all of the initiative. When you are close, don’t spam 3, use it mostly for survival in the form of evades.

If you are playing d/p, your objective is to blind the other person and use stealth to your best ability. Using our rev example, while his heal is up go invisible and backstab him when the heal comes down. If he uses his reveal move on Dragon stance try to get him in a blinding field.

I would recommend Basalisk venom instead of Impact strike. Impact strike does have its moments, but Venom is a lot more useful for getting those first hits in (impact strike has a 2 second daze, which allows them to dodge, while Venom is stun, which prevents all actions with a cast time).

I’ve been looking for a post like this one for so long !! Thanks guys!

Something crossed my mind not too long ago and I can’t find a real answer to that one. Maybe it’s an overly stupid question.

I ‘ve never seen a thief using blackpowder + steal(or any sort of tp) as an engage. Is there a reason to it ? Doesn’t it make sense to bring a smoke field on the battlefield instead of wasting it outside of the range of the fight ? Is wanting to engage in stealth the reason for that? Is it really worth it?

Topher: how much do you use #4 on s/d ? I don’t use it a lot, but I can see its worth to keep pressure. MadVision was using it in his s/d video as well.

Wargameur.6950:

Topher: how much do you use #4 on s/d ? I don’t use it a lot, but I can see its worth to keep pressure. MadVision was using it in his s/d video as well.

it’s worth using when you have “too much” initiative and you want to keep distance or you chase and you need that cripple to land further hits.
I know ‘lead attacks’ trait gives damage on initiative but your goal still should be to never be on full so no regain ticks are missed.
it’s also good for applying fist strike of b_venom.
it can proc air sigil so damage can be unexpectedly high.

Wargameur.6950:

Something crossed my mind not too long ago and I can’t find a real answer to that one. Maybe it’s an overly stupid question.

I ‘ve never seen a thief using blackpowder + steal(or any sort of tp) as an engage. Is there a reason to it ? Doesn’t it make sense to bring a smoke field on the battlefield instead of wasting it outside of the range of the fight ? Is wanting to engage in stealth the reason for that? Is it really worth it?

lol, I do that with my P/P build all the time. It forces my target to waste a dodge. Not so much about going into stealth. However, it’s not very effective 100% of a time but very useful when fighting against Rangers and Mesmers in WvW. In PvE, there are mobs that cannot be blinded like the Dredge in the fractals.

For D/P, I get the same reaction in WvW when I do this combo. But unlike P/P, I cannot keep them blinded so it used to as a setup for a backstab: BP→Steal→HS→BS. The HS thru BP will keep you within BS range even if they dodge away. At least, that’s how it usually goes for me. Against more experienced players, they will simply walk out of the smoke field instead of dodging — which means, you’re in for a long fight.

MadVisions.4529:

Wargameur.6950:

Topher: how much do you use #4 on s/d ? I don’t use it a lot, but I can see its worth to keep pressure. MadVision was using it in his s/d video as well.

it’s worth using when you have “too much” initiative and you want to keep distance or you chase and you need that cripple to land further hits.
I know ‘lead attacks’ trait gives damage on initiative but your goal still should be to never be on full so no regain ticks are missed.
it’s also good for applying fist strike of b_venom.
it can proc air sigil so damage can be unexpectedly high.

it can also force a dodge.