Guild Wars 2

What do u think about first and probably last thief performance in pro legaue? Was the player weak, as a caster was saying or thief is weak class overall?

Would be great if you’d link a video (and time) to that:
This one:
https://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/55874140
Start min 31, a thief named Duck?

I know too little about pvp, but it looks as if he could’ve roamed some more. Other than that there wasn’t much he could do, I guess – too much AoE and overall damage.

Anet, take a hint. No thieves (or warriors, but I’m sure theres a thread in warrior section about this) except 1 in pro league, and from what I saw it looks like he got shut down. Rev does everything a thief can and more. Thief is no longer the best viable option for spike damage, and the roaming skills are being rivaled by rev, even.

pro playurs have no idea how to play thief tbh

well i don’t relate decap bit** as how thief should be played
and +1ing is something rev can do as well

the best thing is, that thief is described as one of the deadliest 1v1 classes in the game, yet get’s owned by almost everything 1v1 in pvp
kinda sad how my fav class has been killed

Last patch was described for thief this way “autoatacks and initiative usage extremely dangerous”. i think they have to increase autoatack’s dmg by another 50%.

You guys could actually tell me why you’re running zerker with DA, T, DrD with D/P.
I get that DA has got tons more utility than CS, but I feel as if the “metabuild” is still lacking everywhere. I’d get if this was S/D or staff, although I’d probably chose marauder for staff.
(I was nearly half life when that guy jumped on me as I was killing ogres).

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to play thief tbh

wat o.o?

Back to topic: the only thing that surprised me is that there was thief at all. This have been said since HoT beta, thief is in bad state due to powercreep, revs (and scrappers) to extend completely shut down the class. All falls on deaf ears, per usual. Seems like to qualify as balancing dev you need as much education and common sense as a politician.

maruder is only amulet for power thief

The traits/that build makes sense with S/D, like I said, but not with D/P. I mean, that poor guy was insta downed the moment I got my proper backstab in (first was likely from the front as I was backstabbing a mob).
That build is just so unreliable, that’s why I wonder it is meta.
Does it do you guys any good in pvp?

But everyone does use marauder in pvp.

For wvw? not many care enough to get marauder set and just use what they already have which is zerk.

Jana.6831:

The traits/that build makes sense with S/D, like I said, but not with D/P. I mean, that poor guy was insta downed the moment I got my proper backstab in (first was likely from the front as I was backstabbing a mob).
That build is just so unreliable, that’s why I wonder it is meta.
Does it do you guys any good in pvp?

That is about the most standard build you run as thief in pvp atm. I got to legend with it, so ya it works (in fact i had to reroll to this build, with refuge however, from vanilla dp because of revs and scrappers spamming reveal off CD and precision strike going through walls, dodges, ignoring range limit etc.)
DD gives you enough dodges to deal with revs and for moblity around the map. Your main dmg comes from impact disruption and AA. Backstab is worthless considering the effort it takes to land a proper one (in pvp that is, since you never 1v1 as thief there).

Due to pvp multiplies and amulets dmg is different there compared to madness of imabalance in wvw. You will never see such mad numbers in pvp as you see them in wvw.

As far as Duck goes, he definitely engaged too many team fights instead of looking for empty points (you can count enemies on the map, he could easily see that nobody was at mine for example or at hendge later in the match because all 5 enemies were in team fights or dead). You can’t stay for longer than few sec on team fights as a thief in current meta. His team also left him with enemy ele to defend point which was really bad idea.

Cynz.9437:

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to play thief tbh

wat o.o?

Back to topic: the only thing that surprised me is that there was thief at all. This have been said since HoT beta, thief is in bad state due to powercreep, revs (and scrappers) to extend completely shut down the class. All falls on deaf ears, per usual. Seems like to qualify as balancing dev you need as much education and common sense as a politician.

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

Cynz.9437:

That is about the most standard build you run as thief in pvp atm. I got to legend with it, so ya it works (in fact i had to reroll to this build, with refuge however, from vanilla dp because of revs and scrappers spamming reveal off CD and precision strike going through walls, dodges, ignoring range limit etc.)
DD gives you enough dodges to deal with revs and for moblity around the map. Your main dmg comes from impact disruption and AA. Backstab is worthless considering the effort it takes to land a proper one (in pvp that is, since you never 1v1 as thief there).

Due to pvp multiplies and amulets dmg is different there compared to madness of imabalance in wvw. You will never see such mad numbers in pvp as you see them in wvw.

Ok, most of the time you got to legend with vanilla builds, now you got to legend with this build
It actually doesn’t make sense to me: You can’t really dish out damage, you have no sustain. If this really is something people think is good, then well yeah: ANET; DO SOMETHING!!!
(As you can see even my AA is higher than this guy’s – I’m running valk/zerk with CS, SA, T – food has got power and vitality – I had 20 or 25 stacks of bloodlust)

Btw: wvw looks more balanced than the mess I’ve seen in this video: granted when we were small scaling the other day and defeated our enemies a random dead thief we hadn’t even seen before appeared – death by cleave. I said it in another thread: Think of food as an extra trinket, there isn’t much more to it. And well, we had no “runes tweak”, still.. Maybe I should watch a few videos from Sinderer again.

ETA: I actually have to admit that it’s worse than I thought. If you’d take staff or S/X as a second set (DA makes a lot more sense with those weapons) you’d miss out on SB, if you replaced D/P, you’d miss out on “out of jail card” – I get that backstab misses most of the time thanks to all the blocks – but honestly; this is a mess, even all D/P has got is broken builds which make little sense. Yeah well, lets hope for next patch, aight?!

And if someone from metabuilds reads this: please don’t advertise that build as “meta” for wvw – thanks. I’m having a hard time convincing a friend that it’s crap.

Of our 4 weaponsets or out of our traitlines?
I don’t care who is running what metabuild but this build is broken (as you can see) – it might be a success when you’re +1-ing everything and your allies have allready beaten everything to 50%, but otherwise it is crap. I have no idea what runes the guy was running – but then again metabuild says “take this or that or…” this build is only halfway viable with runes of the pack.
And it’s great that you like DrD – then try to take 2 other lines – I don’t think you guys need the extra initative for auto attack.
I’m pretty fine, thank you and Sinderer is a D/P thief. And btw what has this got to do with anything? Is this Sinderer’s build?
You know what?! I might be the most selfish thief under the sun – and ask anyone on my server if I’m selfish – you can help your team by helping yourself.

ETA: And I’m not saying the broken balance isn’t forcing people into running this build – but if you really look at everything it has got: It’s seriously lacking. It’s only halfway saved by D/P.

DA offers better burst than CS since mug and shadow shot combined are a backstab. No need for CS reliability, either, as Marauder is the only viable amulet choice. Tr is necessary for more shadow shots and damage with Lead Attacks, fury, disruption, and boon removal, and DrD takes on defenses such as condi cleanses, more evades, etc. Overall it’s the most functional build the thief has, especially with buffed AA.

That said, I’d argue WvW is more balanced than sPvP because more builds are viable and because offensive stats are so much more deadly/higher, letting CS scale like it needs to on order to do well.

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to play thief tbh

They do, but the good thiefs players are using revs because they know better.

DeceiverX.8361:

DA offers better burst than CS since mug and shadow shot combined are a backstab. No need for CS reliability, either, as Marauder is the only viable amulet choice. Tr is necessary for more shadow shots and damage with Lead Attacks, fury, disruption, and boon removal, and DrD takes on defenses such as condi cleanses, more evades, etc. Overall it’s the most functional build the thief has, especially with buffed AA.

That said, I’d argue WvW is more balanced than sPvP because more builds are viable and because offensive stats are so much more deadly/higher, letting CS scale like it needs to on order to do well.

Ok, so the damage in pvp is lower, that much I know, but you can’t always wait until someone is at 50% and be eaten by cleave in the meantime. I doubt that SS plays that much of a part in thief’ pvp gameplay (Sinderer uses it, yes, but he is better than most he really has a “perfect” timing) – so in the end it’s a build that 1% of all players know to use while the rest succumbs to AOE. And it’s completely useless while solo roaming (I wish at least that information would be somewhere on metabuilds).
And you know it, deceiver, I’m a noob, break down how exactly the damage of Mug and SS equals a backstab (with CS).

And yeah, I can’t argue about CS being better in wvw – but that was kind of my point: people are running this build everywhere cause they don’t know its purpose.

ETA: And for those who haven’t realized it yet: I made the long turn back to topic.

I have to admit I was surprised, and disapointed by the playstyle of the thief. I have already moved away from d/p meta build. I found it useful for some matchups, but not as great for others. (Running staff now, which I had advocated against at start of season, but I found a really solid build)

Thief in the pro league was really slow on rotations, not getting decaps instantly, and maybe he was just having a bad day. (I know when I’m tired, I can’t play thief, at all.)

Either way, I don’t think the game did a good job to show what a thief can do. So many bad calls in that game, hopefully we get some better thieves (not better control wise, he was spot on, but better map awareness) in future tournaments.

The point is, there wasnt really more he could do. If we watch him, we surely can see opportunitied in unguarded points, but its the pro league we are talking here.
For example when he and that other player were facing two guys at far, another fight at close, mid free. If he left the fight, his teammate would be down in seconds, and the enemy would still have moved fast enough to deny a decap.
You surely can outrotate most scrubs at thief, but not in the pro league. Both teams keep moving all around the map all the time. Pretty much everyone plays the way, thieves do in casual games.

And winning the teamfight is way too important. We saw that in the first game. A team didnt even attempt to recap there close for a long time, because it was more important, to win the teamfight and gain momentum.

I’ll be honest I was disappointed in duck’s performance on thief. He made a few choices in build that imo were terrible choices and he missed at least 7 or 8 opportunities to get a decap. I’m not saying he’s not a good player and I really appreciate the fact that he at least played thief but there were some things he could’ve done better.

Build wise:
-Didn’t get to see his sigils but you want air/blood on d/p and fire/whatever on sb
-Swap scholar runes for vamp- yes he is losing a 10% damage buff… no wait he isn’t because thief is rarely above 90% hp in combat nowadays so the rune choice is pointless. Vamp offers more sustain with a high damage boost due to the extra damage from lifesteal.
-Swap blinding powder for Roll for ini- He ran with 1 stunbreak that was also a condi clear and escape tool. That’s too much pressure to put on 1 skill, ho needed the extra stunbreak to avoid being so easily locked down in fights. It would’ve allowed him to dive in for damage more on his melee set rather than only being able to use sb.
-Swap impacting disruption for EA- The trait is a gimmick and if you saw his play it didn’t proc all that much. He would’ve been better served having the extra condi clear to allow him to deal with the enemy necro and Mesmer. Dash combined with EA actually lets you practically hard counter reaper assuming you don’t just spam and actually use dodges and skills with intent. Plus he’d have better survivability for the occasional teamfight.

Rotation wise:
-He jumped into too many equal fights imo. Yes thief can fight in those skirmishes when played well but his team would’ve been better served had another member from his team gotten involved in the equal fights and waited for him to +1.
-Already said he could’ve gone for many more decaps which overtime could have given his team a serious advantage in fights and eventually points.

All this is my observation and opinion. Many of you will disagree with me and that’s ok but this is what I noticed.

Jana.6831:

DeceiverX.8361:

DA offers better burst than CS since mug and shadow shot combined are a backstab. No need for CS reliability, either, as Marauder is the only viable amulet choice. Tr is necessary for more shadow shots and damage with Lead Attacks, fury, disruption, and boon removal, and DrD takes on defenses such as condi cleanses, more evades, etc. Overall it’s the most functional build the thief has, especially with buffed AA.

That said, I’d argue WvW is more balanced than sPvP because more builds are viable and because offensive stats are so much more deadly/higher, letting CS scale like it needs to on order to do well.

Ok, so the damage in pvp is lower, that much I know, but you can’t always wait until someone is at 50% and be eaten by cleave in the meantime. I doubt that SS plays that much of a part in thief’ pvp gameplay (Sinderer uses it, yes, but he is better than most he really has a “perfect” timing) – so in the end it’s a build that 1% of all players know to use while the rest succumbs to AOE. And it’s completely useless while solo roaming (I wish at least that information would be somewhere on metabuilds).
And you know it, deceiver, I’m a noob, break down how exactly the damage of Mug and SS equals a backstab (with CS).

And yeah, I can’t argue about CS being better in wvw – but that was kind of my point: people are running this build everywhere cause they don’t know its purpose.

ETA: And for those who haven’t realized it yet: I made the long turn back to topic.

You’ll cap at around a 6k backstab in most PvP games if you run both DA and CS, so without either, it’ll usually hover around 5k. It’s not that damage is lower, it’s just SO much lower than in WvW because of how low power and critical damage values are. There is so much less ferocity in sPvP that critting frankly doesn’t mean that much, especially since most players require the use of Marauder (lower power and ferocity) over berserker.

DA, on Mug/SS: (1.5 + (1.31 (SS) * 1.8733)) * 1.1 (EW) * 1.2 (Exec) * 1.11 (Lead Attacks) = 5.7934

CS, on FS/PT/NQ: (2.4 * 2.1853) * 1.07 (FS) * 1.07 (Lead Attacks) = 6.004

So yea, CS on a backstab wins, but by a margin of a whipping 4%. In essence, Mug/SS in sPvP is effectively a backstab.
Further, the damage reliability favors DA since its non-crit damage is guaranteed to be higher (2.81 coefficient) in the event backstab doesn’t crit. If HK is taken in CS, it loses the damage challenge as well.

In WvW, where ferocity and power stats are much higher, the act of critting causes mug to be overshadowed quickly, making CS the clear victor for damage output. But this ONLY starts occurring when ferocity gains increased potency and power values are also higher.

Before the MH dagger AA buffs, Shadow Shot used to be the optimal damage output for the thief due to its low casting time and high coefficient. It was strictly better than even bothering with backstab, and had tons of extra utility. It’s barely even a timing thing, either, just because it’s so cheap and is so fast. D/P (and the thief as a whole) is carried almost exclusively by Shadow Shot’s effectiveness. The stealth uptime honestly means more in WvW where SA and extended stealth is considered more useful.

I never bothered with the stealth uptime – I’m saying it since I crashed this forum: I don’t have time to wait for my stealth to run out. But then again; I’m no D/P thief.

Thanks for the maths, but now I’m puzzled why pvp has got that much different stats than the rest of the game apperantly.
So yes; those who know what they’re doing probably have the best build with this in pvp, but it’s still pretty useless in wvw, especially when alone – even though that ogres were technically the allies of this unfortunate thief who beat me to ~half life before he appeared.

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

do you have a mental breakdown or smth? what do you think who dictates the “meta” if no pro players XD

Jana.6831:

I never bothered with the stealth uptime – I’m saying it since I crashed this forum: I don’t have time to wait for my stealth to run out. But then again; I’m no D/P thief.

Thanks for the maths, but now I’m puzzled why pvp has got that much different stats than the rest of the game apperantly.
So yes; those who know what they’re doing probably have the best build with this in pvp, but it’s still pretty useless in wvw, especially when alone – even though that ogres were technically the allies of this unfortunate thief who beat me to ~half life before he appeared.

Precisely. And frankly, it is this reason why I believe WvW is more balanced. Stats and scaling are actually borked in sPvP considering the act of building for critting is counter-productive in most cases when looking at stat efficiency. The extremely low stats and non-nerfed boons are what contribute to a boon-heavy meta and why celestial stats/defensive builds were so strong; offensive styles are punished more than they should be.

Why they just don’t boost sPvP stats to PvE levels is something I don’t understand. Then they’d be able to more effectively balance and normalize all three formats, and diversity would skyrocket as a consequence as it is in WvW.

Jana.6831:

Cynz.9437:

That is about the most standard build you run as thief in pvp atm. I got to legend with it, so ya it works (in fact i had to reroll to this build, with refuge however, from vanilla dp because of revs and scrappers spamming reveal off CD and precision strike going through walls, dodges, ignoring range limit etc.)
DD gives you enough dodges to deal with revs and for moblity around the map. Your main dmg comes from impact disruption and AA. Backstab is worthless considering the effort it takes to land a proper one (in pvp that is, since you never 1v1 as thief there).

Due to pvp multiplies and amulets dmg is different there compared to madness of imabalance in wvw. You will never see such mad numbers in pvp as you see them in wvw.

Ok, most of the time you got to legend with vanilla builds, now you got to legend with this build
It actually doesn’t make sense to me: You can’t really dish out damage, you have no sustain. If this really is something people think is good, then well yeah: ANET; DO SOMETHING!!!
(As you can see even my AA is higher than this guy’s – I’m running valk/zerk with CS, SA, T – food has got power and vitality – I had 20 or 25 stacks of bloodlust)

Btw: wvw looks more balanced than the mess I’ve seen in this video: granted when we were small scaling the other day and defeated our enemies a random dead thief we hadn’t even seen before appeared – death by cleave. I said it in another thread: Think of food as an extra trinket, there isn’t much more to it. And well, we had no “runes tweak”, still.. Maybe I should watch a few videos from Sinderer again.

ETA: I actually have to admit that it’s worse than I thought. If you’d take staff or S/X as a second set (DA makes a lot more sense with those weapons) you’d miss out on SB, if you replaced D/P, you’d miss out on “out of jail card” – I get that backstab misses most of the time thanks to all the blocks – but honestly; this is a mess, even all D/P has got is broken builds which make little sense. Yeah well, lets hope for next patch, aight?!

And if someone from metabuilds reads this: please don’t advertise that build as “meta” for wvw – thanks. I’m having a hard time convincing a friend that it’s crap.

Why do you think that that build does no dmg? Thieves also were never about sustain.
Stats are not bound to traits anymore. It is mainly determined by amulet now. You don’t have classes there walking around with high HP/toughness like in wvw because it is simply not possible.

You judge pvp on wvw numbers, cmon now. It is completely different environment, with completely different variables and numbers.

WvW more balanced? One guy runs with ascended, other doesn’t. One has broken food, other can’t gain much from that food. Tanky stats and broken sigils/rune sets are available in wvw, in pvp they aren’t. Oh let’s forget about other buffs that are not available in pvp~

P.S. fun fact, you said you run mix of valk/zerker. Take a guess what amulet it would be in pvp.

Cynz.9437:

Why do you think that that build does no dmg?

I posted a screenshot – that’s why I think it does no damage – in fact Deceiver and I already “solved it”.

Cynz.9437:

Thieves also were never about sustain.
Stats are not bound to traits anymore. It is mainly determined by amulet now.

So? What has that to do with anything? and traits still determine some stats, like Practiced tolerance, like side strikes.

Cynz.9437:

You judge pvp on wvw numbers, cmon now.

No, I asked a question and pvp and wvw shouldn’t be that much different, but they now apperantly are, that’s where anet screwed up, because you can’t balance a whole game on pvp if all modes have different settings.

Cynz.9437:

WvW more balanced? One guy runs with ascended, other doesn’t. One has broken food, other can’t gain much from that food.

So what? You can do well with exotic and if you fail to have food, well your own fault.

Cynz.9437:

P.S. fun fact, you said you run mix of valk/zerker. Take a guess what amulet it would be in pvp.

Look at the stat differences before you try to imply I’m stupid =)

Some classes in WvW have more viable builds than the entirety of the viable builds in sPvP. Every class is also good in WvW and almost every build can be made good.

The exotic/ascended gap is overstated. I beat ascended players on my exotic-equipped alts all the time using strictly “sub-par” builds. Think it’s a problem? Play better. Ascended gear will NOT carry you in WvW. Food is augmentation or covers weakness. Pick one. It helps blur lines between stat selections and gives a finer amount of granularity in build-making. Just because someone runs X food doesn’t mean you should, and one can play using second-tier food like Hardened stones for a drastically reduced cost with performance losses suffering only the fractions of percentages.

Marauder isn’t even close to valk/zerk considering it operates at just a bit over half the ferocity and lower power, causing it to scale much worse on itself. Both valkyrie and berserker sets offer superior DPH by a substantial margin. Marauder isn’t exclusive to sPvP, either. Some people prefer that extra ferocity and/or health at the expense of precision.

@Jana: if you really think that that build is that bad and your stats are achievable in pvp why don’t you go pvp and record some of your games with your amazing build. I am even willing to queue with you so you get to face legend player

@DeceiverX: i haven’t said ascended is a problem. My point is there are so many variables in wvw due to pvp gear/food/buffs etc. that are not available in pvp that you simply can’t compare numbers in this mode flat like that.

The problem with pvp stats generally – for dps thief you have only 1 option atm: marauder. Zerker is actually not an option as you end up running with 11K~ HP and get 1 shotted by literary everything. You also can’t completely drop ferocity and those 2 amulets are only that offer power/prec/ferocity. So yes, marauder amy is the closest you can get to zerker/valk in pvp as thief in pvp.

Cynz.9437:

@Jana: if you really think that that build is that bad and your stats are achievable in pvp why don’t you go pvp and record some of your games with your amazing build. I am even willing to queue with you so you get to face legend player

They aren’t – Both valk and zerker have power as a base.
That build is bad when it comes to wvw, that’s why I asked you guys if it does you any favours in pvp and Deceiver explained to me that both have got different scalings when it comes to damage
Try to get it, alright? All of the above =)

ETA: And when you look at the OP you’ll see that the thief in that video really looks like a noob – not his fault, I guess – so yeah, pvp is worse off than wvw atm. Why don’t you go to wvw and try your amazing marauder build? We have marauder in wvw, did you know? I can even give you tipps how to defeat me, if you like.

ETA²: And by the way I never said I had amazing gear, I just summarized my build – but alas, every little thing I say is bragging, right? And it’s easier to get everything wrong than one thing right.

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

do you have a mental breakdown or smth? what do you think who dictates the “meta” if no pro players XD

im not a pro player but in legend division im playing hybrid thief winning nearly everything with enemy players whispering me after match to ask me what build i am running or simply saying that i have sick build

that should give you an idea how meta is created, son, and learn some respect towards your betters before they have to teach you some

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

do you have a mental breakdown or smth? what do you think who dictates the “meta” if no pro players XD

im not a pro player but in legend division im playing hybrid thief winning nearly everything with enemy players whispering me after match to ask me what build i am running or simply saying that i have sick build

that should give you an idea how meta is created, son, and learn some respect towards your betters before they have to teach you some

ok master! can u link here the godlike build of yours so i can see it with my ‘unrespectful towards my betters’-eyes?
i’ve never said that you can’t make non-meta work i roll ppl in legend with s/d thief which is clearly non-meta. The fact is tho that your performance would be better with a visible amont if you would play some alter of the ‘meta’ spec. which is D/P – daredevil in our case.

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

do you have a mental breakdown or smth? what do you think who dictates the “meta” if no pro players XD

im not a pro player but in legend division im playing hybrid thief winning nearly everything with enemy players whispering me after match to ask me what build i am running or simply saying that i have sick build

that should give you an idea how meta is created, son, and learn some respect towards your betters before they have to teach you some

ok master! can u link here the godlike build of yours so i can see it with my ‘unrespectful towards my betters’-eyes?
i’ve never said that you can’t make non-meta work i roll ppl in legend with s/d thief which is clearly non-meta. The fact is tho that your performance would be better with a visible amont if you would play some alter of the ‘meta’ spec. which is D/P – daredevil in our case.

d/p is an outdated build which works only against bad players and becomes completely non-existent if enemies have a rev who keeps an eye on you

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

do you have a mental breakdown or smth? what do you think who dictates the “meta” if no pro players XD

im not a pro player but in legend division im playing hybrid thief winning nearly everything with enemy players whispering me after match to ask me what build i am running or simply saying that i have sick build

that should give you an idea how meta is created, son, and learn some respect towards your betters before they have to teach you some

ok master! can u link here the godlike build of yours so i can see it with my ‘unrespectful towards my betters’-eyes?
i’ve never said that you can’t make non-meta work i roll ppl in legend with s/d thief which is clearly non-meta. The fact is tho that your performance would be better with a visible amont if you would play some alter of the ‘meta’ spec. which is D/P – daredevil in our case.

d/p is an outdated build which works only against bad players and becomes completely non-existent if enemies have a rev who keeps an eye on you

many could argue with this

still waiting for the build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQBAA

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

do you have a mental breakdown or smth? what do you think who dictates the “meta” if no pro players XD

im not a pro player but in legend division im playing hybrid thief winning nearly everything with enemy players whispering me after match to ask me what build i am running or simply saying that i have sick build

that should give you an idea how meta is created, son, and learn some respect towards your betters before they have to teach you some

ok master! can u link here the godlike build of yours so i can see it with my ‘unrespectful towards my betters’-eyes?
i’ve never said that you can’t make non-meta work i roll ppl in legend with s/d thief which is clearly non-meta. The fact is tho that your performance would be better with a visible amont if you would play some alter of the ‘meta’ spec. which is D/P – daredevil in our case.

d/p is an outdated build which works only against bad players and becomes completely non-existent if enemies have a rev who keeps an eye on you

many could argue with this

still waiting for the build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQBAA

sorry son but what mine is mine, dont feel like sharing my intellectual work with people who are only able to copy paste builds from meta battle

at some point someone will figure out this build for sure but i am genuinely curious for how long i can abuse it

Ya, I also always play original builds. d/p is definitely not the highest damage, or even good at 1v1. Running staff now, dealing way more damage (about twice in most games), my rotations aren’t affected, but my interrupts are. (no headshot) I can also not blind as much, but blind spam can do some decent damage to runners on staff. After quite a few games, I think that Thief is a lot more viable than people realize. It just takes a lot of practice.

Just yesterday in diamond, I join a game, a necro on my team says “glad you are on my team, scared to fight you” “you were so beast last game, watched you take out 3 by stillness within like 5 seconds” (he was obviously exaggerating, but I came in after the 3 had finished my ally, all weakened, and just finished them all in a few seconds)

Now these don’t prove too much, but I do get these type of comments often enough that I think I know how to play the class, and the tournament video don’t show the best thief play. He knows well how to control his character, but his rotations weren’t perfect, which is the biggest part of thief.

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

do you have a mental breakdown or smth? what do you think who dictates the “meta” if no pro players XD

im not a pro player but in legend division im playing hybrid thief winning nearly everything with enemy players whispering me after match to ask me what build i am running or simply saying that i have sick build

that should give you an idea how meta is created, son, and learn some respect towards your betters before they have to teach you some

ok master! can u link here the godlike build of yours so i can see it with my ‘unrespectful towards my betters’-eyes?
i’ve never said that you can’t make non-meta work i roll ppl in legend with s/d thief which is clearly non-meta. The fact is tho that your performance would be better with a visible amont if you would play some alter of the ‘meta’ spec. which is D/P – daredevil in our case.

d/p is an outdated build which works only against bad players and becomes completely non-existent if enemies have a rev who keeps an eye on you

many could argue with this

still waiting for the build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQBAA

sorry son but what mine is mine, dont feel like sharing my intellectual work with people who are only able to copy paste builds from meta battle

at some point someone will figure out this build for sure but i am genuinely curious for how long i can abuse it

I’m really disappointed daddy. W/O sharing, your arguments become kinda groundless
also i’d like to see how creative hybrid build you could come up with w/o any might stacking ability. You claim it works or even reaches abuse-level, so i’m even more curious

Loboling.5293:

d/p is definitely not the highest damage, or even good at 1v1.

nor is it used for these factors. You are unable to do stealth rotations, fake pushes etc on any other thief build. Plus the damage, rupts and in fight mobility is just enough to focus down targets with a teammate with high pressure(necro, reve, etc…).
Staff builds got intense damage but are easyer to focus. Also D/P can just stealth camp and dominate other thief builds from the enemy.

I repeate. You can make many builds work. You can even carry games with builds like Staff, S/D, or the mysterious hybrid build, but the Highest performance expecting good players vs good players can be reached by playing D/P due to it’s mechanics.
My 5 cents.

Edit:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

also what do you think how ‘meta’ specs are made if not good/pro players experimenting, finding working things then optimalising? It’s not the 500-games plebs thorwing together some traits that’s for sure….

inb4 some kittenty s/p condi interrupt build.

But on serious note, you can’t expect people to believe you if you make claims like that without backing them up somehow.

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

MadVisions.4529:

Lexander.4579:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

do you have a mental breakdown or smth? what do you think who dictates the “meta” if no pro players XD

im not a pro player but in legend division im playing hybrid thief winning nearly everything with enemy players whispering me after match to ask me what build i am running or simply saying that i have sick build

that should give you an idea how meta is created, son, and learn some respect towards your betters before they have to teach you some

ok master! can u link here the godlike build of yours so i can see it with my ‘unrespectful towards my betters’-eyes?
i’ve never said that you can’t make non-meta work i roll ppl in legend with s/d thief which is clearly non-meta. The fact is tho that your performance would be better with a visible amont if you would play some alter of the ‘meta’ spec. which is D/P – daredevil in our case.

d/p is an outdated build which works only against bad players and becomes completely non-existent if enemies have a rev who keeps an eye on you

many could argue with this

still waiting for the build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQBAA

sorry son but what mine is mine, dont feel like sharing my intellectual work with people who are only able to copy paste builds from meta battle

at some point someone will figure out this build for sure but i am genuinely curious for how long i can abuse it

I’m really disappointed daddy. W/O sharing, your arguments become kinda groundless
also i’d like to see how creative hybrid build you could come up with w/o any might stacking ability. You claim it works or even reaches abuse-level, so i’m even more curious

Loboling.5293:

d/p is definitely not the highest damage, or even good at 1v1.

nor is it used for these factors. You are unable to do stealth rotations, fake pushes etc on any other thief build. Plus the damage, rupts and in fight mobility is just enough to focus down targets with a teammate with high pressure(necro, reve, etc…).
Staff builds got intense damage but are easyer to focus. Also D/P can just stealth camp and dominate other thief builds from the enemy.

I repeate. You can make many builds work. You can even carry games with builds like Staff, S/D, or the mysterious hybrid build, but the Highest performance expecting good players vs good players can be reached by playing D/P due to it’s mechanics.
My 5 cents.

Edit:

pro playurs have no idea how to build thief, they just copy paste metabattle builds just like emerald-sapphire overlords

also what do you think how ‘meta’ specs are made if not good/pro players experimenting, finding working things then optimalising? It’s not the 500-games plebs thorwing together some traits that’s for sure….

You are right on all counts. I only brought it up because the weapon set is not the best at everything. As you mention yourself, you can run anything. (that is good/has shortbow XD) And staff is easier to focus down. (With much higher damage)

I have personally found that with thief, the mobility is the best thing about the profession. With such quick mobility, I want to be moving quite often, to make use of that mobility. Moving without purpose is useless, however, with careful observation of the map and game there is always somewhere to be as a thief. When I arrive at my destinations, I like to come in a deal huge damage.

That is the general reason for moving to my current huge burst build, that can also take many 1v1s. (so the option of attacking a base is open, if its a engie, (silly rev*although they are much harder fights), ranger, thief, warrior, guardian (it is a tough fight, but it can be won and it often ends fast), mesmer, necro (although its sometimes a waste of time if they have full lifeforce). For engie and rev, you only get the decap, as bursting one down solo is often impossible. (Also a good rev wont fall for your tricks (wait for number 3 sword →shadowstep → Stun with his back away from point (you can predict this because he appears behind you) →shadow return. (do it fast enough, and you get enough time for decap)

Anyway all things said, I think the thief is in a solid position, but I still believe some other classes could use a tone down. (rev mobility or defense, reaper condi pressure, engie defense (another 2 seconds on leap would be enough probably), ele bug with frost shout (cleanses multiple conditions), dh (traps getting some type of limitation, but the base guardian needs to be buffed to compensate). My version of balance for this game.

Jana.6831:

Cynz.9437:

@Jana: if you really think that that build is that bad and your stats are achievable in pvp why don’t you go pvp and record some of your games with your amazing build. I am even willing to queue with you so you get to face legend player

They aren’t – Both valk and zerker have power as a base.
That build is bad when it comes to wvw, that’s why I asked you guys if it does you any favours in pvp and Deceiver explained to me that both have got different scalings when it comes to damage
Try to get it, alright? All of the above =)

ETA: And when you look at the OP you’ll see that the thief in that video really looks like a noob – not his fault, I guess – so yeah, pvp is worse off than wvw atm. Why don’t you go to wvw and try your amazing marauder build? We have marauder in wvw, did you know? I can even give you tipps how to defeat me, if you like.

ETA²: And by the way I never said I had amazing gear, I just summarized my build – but alas, every little thing I say is bragging, right? And it’s easier to get everything wrong than one thing right.

You were pretty much bashing on the most commonly used build in pvp and tossed wvw into argument which is completely irrelevant for tournaments. In fact why do you still bring up wvw into this discussion? I thought this thread was about thief performance in the tourney. Cool, i can go wvw, what would it change? What would it prove? Nothing. Because wvw is IRRELEVANT for pvp.

PvP is worse off than wvw? And how did you come to such conclusion?

I never claimed that pvp build would work well in wvw. The game modes are extremely different, idk why i need to explain it to you over and over and over again.

When did i say you were bragging? I guess you felt like you were since you mentioned it :P