You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down. I know I see guardians daily revive while tanking like 3 people its almost like they are totally confident that they wont die thats without them popping their own bubble.
That’s true but a guardian would need to burn two utility skills to grant stability in order to actually revive the player. with one of them being on a 120 second cool down. Shadow Refuge is often on a 48 second cd and with two thieves can be done over and over again
It’s a 60 sec cd for most as not everyone runs the deception trait, also refuge is a lot greater in risk then a gaurd popping stability any cc that pushes it out or enough dps is gonna make sure that res won’t get off and likely get the thief trying to res killed aswell.
It’s a 60 sec cd for most as not everyone runs the deception trait, also refuge is a lot greater in risk then a gaurd popping stability any cc that pushes it out or enough dps is gonna make sure that res won’t get off and likely get the thief trying to res killed aswell.
how is it a much greater risk? if you have the trait that heals while in stealth with shadow refuge your going to be getting around 1k hp healed a second and your only able to be hit by aoe damage for 3 seconds
If you actually look in the Mesmer section, there are plenty of builds that don’t take Decoy and Mirror Images and plenty that take only one or the other. But back to the Thief…
A group of 5 thieves is a pain in the butt to kill because they can easily call target and focus one non-Thief target at a time while the non-Thief group will have difficulty doing the same.
5 Thieves versus 5 Mesmers could be interesting.
That said, the idea that “the game is balanced around groups” doesn’t really do much against the fact that Thieves are able to dismantle groups if those groups don’t have very particular builds and even then the Thief can simply escape and find an easier group. Anyone else that runs into a group with a hard counter to them dies.
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It’s 9.5 seconds of stealth. And it’s the only stealth we have that’s viable for complete stealth. The rest are 3 seconds or 4 seconds with traits. Also Shadow Refuge is on a LONG cooldown, no thief will use it for revives and if they do their not a good thief. Shadow Refuge is generally used as a reset. When things don’t go their way they can Stealth out and get out. And before you say it’s OP that we can get out of any situation any time, that’s the whole point of Thief.
People who say remove Shadow Refuge, and remove stealth make me angry. Cause that’s equal to saying Remove pets from Ranger, remove Clones from Mesmer, remove Turrets from Engineers… It’s the exact same.
I feel the thief has too LITTLE stealth as apposed to too much. I’d like more long stealth so I could truly sneak up on people and attack them when they don’t expect it. With these stealth I can’t really do that as I need to use my stealth while I’m in their sight, so they see it coming before I attack.
It’s a risk vs reward thing. Shadow refuge kills thieves just as much as it helps them. The big house pretty much says “AOE here! I’m tryna res a downed guy!” A month ago I would have agreed it was too strong. Now, people have learned to deal with it.
I’ve used SR for both purposes (escape and rezzing). Fact is, the two things keeping it from OP-dom are major (and I assume, intended.)
1. As mentioned previously, for the complete SR stealth, a Thief has to hang out in that radius for a certain amount of time.
2. Thieves have a rather cold relationship with Stability boon. (IIRC, only having it on one elite skill.
As such, it’s very easy to knock or pull a Thief out of the bubble. The tent imagery is
a total giveaway as to what’s going down. Hell, I yank Thieves outta SR any time my
Mesmer’s using Focus. It’s definately a counterable move.
Malegryne (Sylvari Mesmer), Lannka (Asura Thief) – Ferguson’s Crossing: [PRD/BRB/OMFG]
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It’s a risk vs reward thing. Shadow refuge kills thieves just as much as it helps them. The big house pretty much says “AOE here! I’m tryna res a downed guy!” A month ago I would have agreed it was too strong. Now, people have learned to deal with it.
AOE damage is rubbish… I can easily tank/heal through multiple aoe’s while in refuge. AOE is NOT a viable counter to stealth
They would need to push me out of refuge with a non-target specific knockback and hope I don’t just dodge it… and with return endurance on dodge that’s very easy to do.
Atm there is no real counter to stealth… and the revealed debuff is virtually nullified with rendering issues/culling… giving thieves nearly unlimited invisibility that’s the real root of the problem.
It’s 9.5 seconds of stealth. And it’s the only stealth we have that’s viable for complete stealth. The rest are 3 seconds or 4 seconds with traits. Also Shadow Refuge is on a LONG cooldown, no thief will use it for revives and if they do their not a good thief. Shadow Refuge is generally used as a reset. When things don’t go their way they can Stealth out and get out. And before you say it’s OP that we can get out of any situation any time, that’s the whole point of Thief.
People who say remove Shadow Refuge, and remove stealth make me angry. Cause that’s equal to saying Remove pets from Ranger, remove Clones from Mesmer, remove Turrets from Engineers… It’s the exact same.
I feel the thief has too LITTLE stealth as apposed to too much. I’d like more long stealth so I could truly sneak up on people and attack them when they don’t expect it. With these stealth I can’t really do that as I need to use my stealth while I’m in their sight, so they see it coming before I attack.
Maybe you should try reading my entire post next time, I specifically said I didn’t want it removed or changed drastically. Not only that you completely ignored my point about it only being extremely powerful when combined with another thief that has it. Also i never mentioned anything about other stealth abilities I’m not sure why your being so incredibly defensive.
You don’t use AoE really you use cleave DPS where the downed person was. Yes, in the one situation where a Thief is rezing another Thief and they both get the full SR before the downed player teleports, your example probably ends up with the person getting up. As someone who runs Thief/Thief duo a lot that hardly ever happens. Most of the time the teleport has to be blown first. In fact it’ a huge part of the communication in that duo, yelling out when you are teleporting or telling them to stay put because you are about to blanket them with refuge. Dealing with Thief/Thief and downed state isn’t a fraction as annoying as dealing with Guard/Guard so…
You don’t use AoE really you use cleave DPS where the downed person was. Yes, in the one situation where a Thief is rezing another Thief and they both get the full SR before the downed player teleports, your example probably ends up with the person getting up. As someone who runs Thief/Thief duo a lot that hardly ever happens. Most of the time the teleport has to be blown first. In fact it’ a huge part of the communication in that duo, yelling out when you are teleporting or telling them to stay put because you are about to blanket them with refuge. Dealing with Thief/Thief and downed state isn’t a fraction as annoying as dealing with Guard/Guard so…
Shadow step allows this to happen over and over again. I hate using anecdotal evidence but i was in a 1v2 of two thieves where i downed both of them around 4 times each over a 10 minute fight and they would revive each other every time with this tactic. I out leveled them and out geared them considerably as well.
how is it a much greater risk? if you have the trait that heals while in stealth with shadow refuge your going to be getting around 1k hp healed a second and your only able to be hit by aoe damage for 3 seconds
It’s actually only ~600 health per second.
And it is a much greater risk, because it’s broadcasting your position. AOE + melee cleave can destroy a thief quite quickly, as people don’t seem to understand.
Sure, you can dodge in the circle, but there’s a good chance you could pop yourself out and go into revealed. It’s also a big red flag screaming “FEAR HERE” or “PULL HERE” and it’s a pretty common occurrence. You get sent out of your refuge, you’re as good as dead.
how is it a much greater risk? if you have the trait that heals while in stealth with shadow refuge your going to be getting around 1k hp healed a second and your only able to be hit by aoe damage for 3 seconds
It’s actually only ~600 health per second.
And it is a much greater risk, because it’s broadcasting your position. AOE + melee cleave can destroy a thief quite quickly, as people don’t seem to understand.
Sure, you can dodge in the circle, but there’s a good chance you could pop yourself out and go into revealed. It’s also a big red flag screaming “FEAR HERE” or “PULL HERE” and it’s a pretty common occurrence. You get sent out of your refuge, you’re as good as dead.
how is it a much greater risk? if you have the trait that heals while in stealth with shadow refuge your going to be getting around 1k hp healed a second and your only able to be hit by aoe damage for 3 seconds
It’s actually only ~600 health per second.
And it is a much greater risk, because it’s broadcasting your position. AOE + melee cleave can destroy a thief quite quickly, as people don’t seem to understand.
Sure, you can dodge in the circle, but there’s a good chance you could pop yourself out and go into revealed. It’s also a big red flag screaming “FEAR HERE” or “PULL HERE” and it’s a pretty common occurrence. You get sent out of your refuge, you’re as good as dead.
It’s really not that hard to stand on the edge of it and avoid most cleave effects and dodge roll to the other side to avoid spells. Your making it sound a lot harder to pull these off than it is. the Skill also becomes much stronger when combined with shadowstep.
Also shadow refuge does around 500 hp a second by it’s self. adding in the 300-400 hp a second from shadow’s rejuvination (400 with ascended + all stats jewelry) is easily around 1k hp a second
You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down. I know I see guardians daily revive while tanking like 3 people its almost like they are totally confident that they wont die thats without them popping their own bubble.
That’s true but a guardian would need to burn two utility skills to grant stability in order to actually revive the player. with one of them being on a 120 second cool down. Shadow Refuge is often on a 48 second cd and with two thieves can be done over and over again
When this level of minute parsing of skills and abilities begins to occur, you know you have embarked upon another “nerf them, don’t nerf me” thread. You should actually begin reading very carefully when a thread starts with a specific disclaimer that the OP does not believe X profession is OP, but…
I finally finished leveling my thief to 80 yesterday. I have all the other professions at 80 except necro and engi, which I’ve abandoned until some redesign work occurs. Thief is not an easy profession to run around in. I can be pulled into a Risen pack on my guardian and it’s like “Are you really sure you want me in the middle of all of you?”. On the thief it would be an Oh kitten moment. Yes, the thief has excellent strengths to go along with the weaknesses. Thief, though, is one profession where you have to tread very lightly around the nerfbat. It would be very easy for the weaknesses to quickly overshadow the strengths. Stealth is one of those areas.
You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down. I know I see guardians daily revive while tanking like 3 people its almost like they are totally confident that they wont die thats without them popping their own bubble.
That’s true but a guardian would need to burn two utility skills to grant stability in order to actually revive the player. with one of them being on a 120 second cool down. Shadow Refuge is often on a 48 second cd and with two thieves can be done over and over again
When this level of minute parsing of skills and abilities begins to occur, you know you have embarked upon another “nerf them, don’t nerf me” thread. You should actually begin reading very carefully when a thread starts with a specific disclaimer that the OP does not believe X profession is OP, but…
I finally finished leveling my thief to 80 yesterday. I have all the other professions at 80 except necro and engi, which I’ve abandoned until some redesign work occurs. Thief is not an easy profession to run around in. I can be pulled into a Risen pack on my guardian and it’s like “Are you sure you really want me in the middle of all of you?”. On the thief it would be an Oh kitten moment. Yes, the thief has excellent strengths to go along with the weaknesses. Thief, though, is one profession where you have to tread very lightly around the nerfbat. It would be very easy for the weaknesses to quickly overshadow the strengths. Stealth is one of those areas.
minute parsing? im very specifically stating that the issue is exacerbated by the number of thieves involved in the fight. aka the skill grows in power exponentially by the number of people using it
Please dont post unless you have something to actually contribute to the discussion.
You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down. I know I see guardians daily revive while tanking like 3 people its almost like they are totally confident that they wont die thats without them popping their own bubble.
That’s true but a guardian would need to burn two utility skills to grant stability in order to actually revive the player. with one of them being on a 120 second cool down. Shadow Refuge is often on a 48 second cd and with two thieves can be done over and over again
When this level of minute parsing of skills and abilities begins to occur, you know you have embarked upon another “nerf them, don’t nerf me” thread. You should actually begin reading very carefully when a thread starts with a specific disclaimer that the OP does not believe X profession is OP, but…
I finally finished leveling my thief to 80 yesterday. I have all the other professions at 80 except necro and engi, which I’ve abandoned until some redesign work occurs. Thief is not an easy profession to run around in. I can be pulled into a Risen pack on my guardian and it’s like “Are you sure you really want me in the middle of all of you?”. On the thief it would be an Oh kitten moment. Yes, the thief has excellent strengths to go along with the weaknesses. Thief, though, is one profession where you have to tread very lightly around the nerfbat. It would be very easy for the weaknesses to quickly overshadow the strengths. Stealth is one of those areas.
minute parsing? im very specifically stating that the issue is exacerbated by the number of thieves involved in the fight. aka the skill grows in power exponentially by the number of people using it
Please dont post unless you have something to actually contribute to the discussion.
When I studied communication I learned that the ideal role to play in communication is to be a participant-observer. Sometimes pointing out the nature of a communication is the most significant contribution that can be made. It is certainly the most significant contribution that can be made here.
You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down. I know I see guardians daily revive while tanking like 3 people its almost like they are totally confident that they wont die thats without them popping their own bubble.
That’s true but a guardian would need to burn two utility skills to grant stability in order to actually revive the player. with one of them being on a 120 second cool down. Shadow Refuge is often on a 48 second cd and with two thieves can be done over and over again
When this level of minute parsing of skills and abilities begins to occur, you know you have embarked upon another “nerf them, don’t nerf me” thread. You should actually begin reading very carefully when a thread starts with a specific disclaimer that the OP does not believe X profession is OP, but…
I finally finished leveling my thief to 80 yesterday. I have all the other professions at 80 except necro and engi, which I’ve abandoned until some redesign work occurs. Thief is not an easy profession to run around in. I can be pulled into a Risen pack on my guardian and it’s like “Are you sure you really want me in the middle of all of you?”. On the thief it would be an Oh kitten moment. Yes, the thief has excellent strengths to go along with the weaknesses. Thief, though, is one profession where you have to tread very lightly around the nerfbat. It would be very easy for the weaknesses to quickly overshadow the strengths. Stealth is one of those areas.
minute parsing? im very specifically stating that the issue is exacerbated by the number of thieves involved in the fight. aka the skill grows in power exponentially by the number of people using it
Please dont post unless you have something to actually contribute to the discussion.
When I studied communication I learned that the ideal role to play in communication is to be a participant-observer. Sometimes pointing out the nature of a communication is the most significant contribution that can be made. It is certainly the most significant contribution that can be made here.
And yet here you are, contributing nothing to this conversation.
Faeyd, this has been discussed. In sPvP, teams are trying to control points. The Thief can’t contest those points while stealthed. Thus, the uber-stealth Thief build isn’t very viable in sPvP. However, in WvW, it’s quite viable.
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
Also shadow refuge does around 500 hp a second by it’s self. adding in the 300-400 hp a second from shadow’s rejuvination (400 with ascended + all stats jewelry) is easily around 1k hp a second
Shadow Refuge does 355 + 0.18 (healing power) which maxes out at 300, unless you like wasting stats. That equals ~400, and only if you go 30 points into Shadow Arts. And an extra ~400 again if you go 30 into SA. 800, call it an even split. Best case scenario.
Also shadow refuge does around 500 hp a second by it’s self. adding in the 300-400 hp a second from shadow’s rejuvination (400 with ascended + all stats jewelry) is easily around 1k hp a second
random numbers. have you ever played a thief?
btw if you cast a sr and stay on the edge to avoid melee and dodge to avoid cast, you are not ressing/stomping.
sr can be tactical or an escape skill … use it to say “hello world, i’m here” and then be ready to react is not that smart.
Also shadow refuge does around 500 hp a second by it’s self. adding in the 300-400 hp a second from shadow’s rejuvination (400 with ascended + all stats jewelry) is easily around 1k hp a second
random numbers. have you ever played a thief?
btw if you cast a sr and stay on the edge to avoid melee and dodge to avoid cast, you are not ressing/stomping.
sr can be tactical or an escape skill … use it to say “hello world, i’m here” and then be ready to react is not that smart.
sigh do i have to take a screenshot of my regen for you? And onto the issue of reviving the heal from the stealth and healing while in stealth is enough to bring the person back up alone if they arent hit in the 3 seconds. And its enough to keep them at a high enough hp to be revived once they teleport out of range of aoe.
As for the screenshot this is in heart of the mists with 0 healing gear. you can easily get around +200 with ascended gear. the regen is at 749hp a second 420329
It’s 9.5 seconds of stealth. And it’s the only stealth we have that’s viable for complete stealth. The rest are 3 seconds or 4 seconds with traits. Also Shadow Refuge is on a LONG cooldown, no thief will use it for revives and if they do their not a good thief. Shadow Refuge is generally used as a reset. When things don’t go their way they can Stealth out and get out. And before you say it’s OP that we can get out of any situation any time, that’s the whole point of Thief.
People who say remove Shadow Refuge, and remove stealth make me angry. Cause that’s equal to saying Remove pets from Ranger, remove Clones from Mesmer, remove Turrets from Engineers… It’s the exact same.
I feel the thief has too LITTLE stealth as apposed to too much. I’d like more long stealth so I could truly sneak up on people and attack them when they don’t expect it. With these stealth I can’t really do that as I need to use my stealth while I’m in their sight, so they see it coming before I attack.
Maybe you should try reading my entire post next time, I specifically said I didn’t want it removed or changed drastically. Not only that you completely ignored my point about it only being extremely powerful when combined with another thief that has it. Also i never mentioned anything about other stealth abilities I’m not sure why your being so incredibly defensive.
Well if your looking at it from the aspect of 2 thieves and thats your argument then you must include the same of the 2 other classes in that situation. 2 bunker Guardians are a pain to kill. 2 mesmers 6 clones, shatters, confusion and interrupts another pain is this 2v2 we are talking if so you gotta include 2 of the same opposing classes to have a good argument.
Also the cd is 60 secs on SR it honestly isn’t worth it to take Master of Deception over the other traits in SA I don’t know many people that take that trait. You take infusion of shadow, shadows embrace, shadows rejuvination, or blind on stealth. Those are pretty much the common choices for that tree.
Honestly though if you aren’t saving your interrupt/knockback etc in a fight against a thief that is your issue really. Its like clockwork everyone should assume a thief runs SR after the opening burst if it fails its either the heal (most thieves move away from you when they are about to heal) or its SR. Don’t blow interrupts until SR comes I wish I could knock another thief out of SR but I make sure I interrupt the heal with headshot after you interrupt the heal 90% of the time its shadow refuge because its the oh no utility.
You interrupt SR then the thief is probably going to die or at least leave the area. Heck SR is the probably the best thing a thief brings to a group setting.
It’s 9.5 seconds of stealth. And it’s the only stealth we have that’s viable for complete stealth. The rest are 3 seconds or 4 seconds with traits. Also Shadow Refuge is on a LONG cooldown, no thief will use it for revives and if they do their not a good thief. Shadow Refuge is generally used as a reset. When things don’t go their way they can Stealth out and get out. And before you say it’s OP that we can get out of any situation any time, that’s the whole point of Thief.
People who say remove Shadow Refuge, and remove stealth make me angry. Cause that’s equal to saying Remove pets from Ranger, remove Clones from Mesmer, remove Turrets from Engineers… It’s the exact same.
I feel the thief has too LITTLE stealth as apposed to too much. I’d like more long stealth so I could truly sneak up on people and attack them when they don’t expect it. With these stealth I can’t really do that as I need to use my stealth while I’m in their sight, so they see it coming before I attack.
Maybe you should try reading my entire post next time, I specifically said I didn’t want it removed or changed drastically. Not only that you completely ignored my point about it only being extremely powerful when combined with another thief that has it. Also i never mentioned anything about other stealth abilities I’m not sure why your being so incredibly defensive.
Well if your looking at it from the aspect of 2 thieves and thats your argument then you must include the same of the 2 other classes in that situation. 2 bunker Guardians are a pain to kill. 2 mesmers 6 clones, shatters, confusion and interrupts another pain is this 2v2 we are talking if so you gotta include 2 of the same opposing classes to have a good argument.
Two bunker guardians are going to have a hard time killing people effectively. And the fact that they have pretty much 0 escape/chasing power. Regardless of this we could discuss balance on other classes for ages. the point i’m trying to make is that you could have two thieves vs 5 or even 6 players and you wouldn’t ever be able to take them out if they played perfectly.
As for the screenshot this is in heart of the mists with 0 healing gear. you can easily get around +200 with ascended gear. the regen is at 749hp a second 420329
What ascended gear is going to give me an increased 700 healing power, and also not be worthless otherwise? Because that’s what it would take to add +200 health to both those skills respectively (.1x(HP) for Shadow’s Rejuvenation, .18x(HP) for Shadow Refuge)…
As for the screenshot this is in heart of the mists with 0 healing gear. you can easily get around +200 with ascended gear. the regen is at 749hp a second 420329
What ascended gear is going to give me an increased 700 healing power, and also not be worthless otherwise? Because that’s what it would take to add +200 health to both those skills respectively (.1x(HP) for Shadow’s Rejuvenation, .18x(HP) for Shadow Refuge)…
Count ME in!
it would go to around 820 hp a second with +200 healing which is actually closer to the 1k estimate i had then your ~600 estimate. So i admit i was a little bit off with my calculations but My point still stands that it heals for enough to keep you and your ally from dying in the 3 seconds
Two bunker guardians are going to have a hard time killing people effectively. And the fact that they have pretty much 0 escape/chasing power. Regardless of this we could discuss balance on other classes for ages. the point i’m trying to make is that you could have two thieves vs 5 or even 6 players and you wouldn’t ever be able to take them out if they played perfectly.
Well of course they are bunkers and bunkers should know they are giving up damage for survivablility.
2 thieves 6 players seriously? I thought your point was about shadow refuge and rezzing I am pretty sure at 1 point or another 1 or both of those thieves is going to pop shadow refuge and with 6 players there somebody has to have a interrupt of some sort.
2 thieves vs 6 elementalist rofl Ill take the eles playing sloppy to kill both thieves
2 thieves vs 6 mesmers 1 of them has to have a greatsword, Im sure somebody has a focus, a pistol, a staff.
2 thieves vs 6 guardians Ill take the guardians impossible to kill impossible to get a stomp with so many blinds and interrupts knockbacks.
Could go on and on but I’m sure you get the point 2 thieves vs 6 players the 2 thieves at best could troll and annoy. What will happen is those 6 players will stand around and chase said thieves when if they just kept on going to take a camp or whatever then if the thieves want to try to kill someone they are gonna have to blow initiative to stay engaged.
That is the problem in almost ever thief vs X scenario I have been in its so easy to get people sidetracked when if they just left the scene I then play in there hands if I chase them. Instead people chase me.
My point still stands that it heals for enough to keep you and your ally from dying in the 3 seconds
Ally will get only the 430 from refuge not the rejuvenation
430*5=2150 hp on a pool of over 35k (i have 15k while alive and 35k+ while downed) is not that much.
have you not been reading the point i have been trying to make this ENTIRE thread? the issue is specifically with reviving OTHER thieves with the ability
My point still stands that it heals for enough to keep you and your ally from dying in the 3 seconds
Ally will get only the 430 from refuge not the rejuvenation
430*5=2150 hp on a pool of over 35k (i have 15k while alive and 35k+ while downed) is not that much.
have you not been reading the point i have been trying to make this ENTIRE thread? the issue is specifically with reviving OTHER thieves with the ability
ok so? still 18k to be healed in 3 sec … assuming no one is doing anything in the refuge, and that never happens
Im done trying to make a point. For whatever reason you guys are ignoring logic and bringing up pointless information that does nothing to argue my stance. I’ll come back here eventually with a video of me and another thief played to the benny hill theme of just endlessly reviving each other next to 4 or more enemy players. Maybe then you’ll be able to understand
As for the screenshot this is in heart of the mists with 0 healing gear. you can easily get around +200 with ascended gear. the regen is at 749hp a second 420329
What ascended gear is going to give me an increased 700 healing power, and also not be worthless otherwise? Because that’s what it would take to add +200 health to both those skills respectively (.1x(HP) for Shadow’s Rejuvenation, .18x(HP) for Shadow Refuge)…
Count ME in!
it would go to around 820 hp a second with +200 healing which is actually closer to the 1k estimate i had then your ~600 estimate. So i admit i was a little bit off with my calculations but My point still stands that it heals for enough to keep you and your ally from dying in the 3 seconds
Come on OZX how many thieves you really believe are running around with those. Do you know many thief players? At best Maybe triforge, and a karka shell. I know alot of thieves from my server, from magumma, from yaks bend, I have never once seen any of those pop up. I have seen divinity runes but majority of the time a thief is running valks,zerker,carrion, scholar runes, ogre runes, krait, afflicted, rune of wurm, those are probably the most popular choices.
Im done trying to make a point. For whatever reason you guys are ignoring logic and bringing up pointless information that does nothing to argue my stance. I’ll come back here eventually with a video of me and another thief played to the benny hill theme of just endlessly reviving each other next to 4 or more enemy players. Maybe then you’ll be able to understand
Ill wait for that video to never happen. How will you endlessly revive each other when your shadow refuge is on a cooldown? Oh you mean you will troll some people I could see that but you aren’t killing them and trying to prove your point about shadow refuge at the same time thats not gonna happen. You either use it defensively or offensively.
your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.
your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.
this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?
You don’t use AoE really you use cleave DPS where the downed person was. Yes, in the one situation where a Thief is rezing another Thief and they both get the full SR before the downed player teleports, your example probably ends up with the person getting up. As someone who runs Thief/Thief duo a lot that hardly ever happens. Most of the time the teleport has to be blown first. In fact it’ a huge part of the communication in that duo, yelling out when you are teleporting or telling them to stay put because you are about to blanket them with refuge. Dealing with Thief/Thief and downed state isn’t a fraction as annoying as dealing with Guard/Guard so…
Shadow step allows this to happen over and over again. I hate using anecdotal evidence but i was in a 1v2 of two thieves where i downed both of them around 4 times each over a 10 minute fight and they would revive each other every time with this tactic. I out leveled them and out geared them considerably as well.
Then you need to invest in a knockback or just buy some Pirate Peg Legs for karma. Anytime a Thief does this to me, I pull out a plank and bust the downed person (and likely the reser as well) out of refuge. If the downed person has already teleported I just use Sword#1 cleave chain and usually down them both.
your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.
So trolling which accomplishes? Trolling
So your point is you can mess with 4 people not kill them then revive each other? What is the point of that except trolling. How does that prove your point about shadow refuge?
your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.
this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?
Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.
With a reaction time of about .25 of a second and the delay of around 125ms on average and the travel distance of projectiles/skills that knockback at around .25 if your at full endurance you will be safe the entire 3 seconds with 2 dodge rolls
your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.
this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?
Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.
He is saying that your only gonna be able to troll bad players using that method you described that is why he said that. Good players arent gonna blow interrupts vs 2 thieves just cause its time for that in their comfortable rotation.
If the players stick around while you dodge roll and CnD on them all the way until your health pool is depleted they are probably bad players. I would get bored and just move on and my guess is they probably will too.
your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.
this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?
Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.
He is saying that your only gonna be able to troll bad players using that method you described that is why he said that. Good players arent gonna blow interrupts vs 2 thieves just cause its time for that in their comfortable rotation.
If the players stick around while you dodge roll and CnD on them all the way until your health pool is depleted they are probably bad players. I would get bored and just move on and my guess is they probably will too.
So your okay with there being a class in the game that can never die if they choose to do so? lol what a joke
