Guild Wars 2

Thieves need some revamp of useless traits that only effect one attack.

Every other profession has a “Sword Trait.” that either improves critical chance or damage, thief needs this trait, we have no sword traits.

Pistol Whip needs a damage increase otherwise.

Dual Skill Traits need improved, 5% Critical for ONE skill? … meanwhile in the same areas other classes get “10% damage if using X weapon in main or offhand.”, or “15% critical chance if using X weapon in main or offhand.”.

Backstab needs a damage nerf, but after that, daggers need better dagger traits to make up for the loss of burst damage and add more passive damage.

The only thing saving us is our really good traits, but all classes have them and more, we don’t have many builds like other classes do, and venom and traps remain to be kind of worthless.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Zwipe.5419:

CHIPS.6018:

Zwipe.5419:

All I got have to say to the dev team is PLEASE do not give in to all the people crying for nerfs on thieves.

I played a thief and I want them to be nerfed. Thieves are killing this game.

do we hit hard?yes.

is it unavoidable?no.

no need to nerf.

Heartseeker is unavoidable. Once Dodge bar is empty. And since you can spam it 4-6 times depending on build, I say ‘it IS unavoidable’. Mesmer have daze and Knockback that can be time to interrupt.

The only way to beat thief is to interrupt him. Loosing endurance or hp = win for thief. Cause he gets so close to an ‘easy burst target’ down, that you can’t do a kitten against it. Interrupt works because it EATS the iniative, without the thief making progress (removing endurance/hp). Ele got one knockback every 40 secs. Apart from that you have full freedom to spam heartseeker down on our throat.

95% Unavoidable on non interrupt professions.

Heartseeker is far from unavoidable. If the thief jumps up, just walk towards him and he will miss.
Heartseeker isnt a fecking cruise missle, it just jumps to the place where you were before, if you suddenly walk backwards the heartseeker will very likely miss and I have seen several persons pulling that off in WvW, so again a L2P issue.

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves need some revamp of useless traits that only effect one attack.

Every other profession has a “Sword Trait.” that either improves critical chance or damage, thief needs this trait, we have no sword traits.

Pistol Whip needs a damage increase otherwise.

Dual Skill Traits need improved, 5% Critical for ONE skill? … meanwhile in the same areas other classes get “10% damage if using X weapon in main or offhand.”, or “15% critical chance if using X weapon in main or offhand.”.

Backstab needs a damage nerf, but after that, daggers need better dagger traits to make up for the loss of burst damage and add more passive damage.

The only thing saving us is our really good traits, but all classes have them and more, we don’t have many builds like other classes do, and venom and traps remain to be kind of worthless.

BS doesn’t need a damage nerf .Why would it? Why everyone stating stuff but never mention the reason?
Then they will need to buff survivability aswell.Whit 10k hp those BSérs rely on that burst to finish fast.In the end its all they got.Id more than agree whit a change to make it less bursty and more viable on longer fights because now its realy kitten against anyone who has even a clue what they are doing.Not to mention all those classes that they realy are deffences against, like Warriors, Necros ,Guardians ,Eles.

NightyNight.1823:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves need some revamp of useless traits that only effect one attack.

Every other profession has a “Sword Trait.” that either improves critical chance or damage, thief needs this trait, we have no sword traits.

Pistol Whip needs a damage increase otherwise.

Dual Skill Traits need improved, 5% Critical for ONE skill? … meanwhile in the same areas other classes get “10% damage if using X weapon in main or offhand.”, or “15% critical chance if using X weapon in main or offhand.”.

Backstab needs a damage nerf, but after that, daggers need better dagger traits to make up for the loss of burst damage and add more passive damage.

The only thing saving us is our really good traits, but all classes have them and more, we don’t have many builds like other classes do, and venom and traps remain to be kind of worthless.

BS doesn’t need a damage nerf .Why would it? Why everyone stating stuff but never mention the reason?
Then they will need to buff survivability aswell.Whit 10k hp those BSérs rely on that burst to finish fast.In the end its all they got.Id more than agree whit a change to make it less bursty and more viable on longer fights because now its realy kitten against anyone who has even a clue what they are doing.Not to mention all those classes that they realy are deffences against, like Warriors, Necros ,Guardians ,Eles.

BS needs a damage nerf so we can get more traits that improve DAMAGE, this would bring BS back up in damage, but allow for other sets to thrive and not just D/D.

BS gets nerfed by 15% damage, we get new traits that improve damage of everything when using certain weapons by 10%, BS gets a 10% damage increase again, and more sets get viable and not just D/D.

Try pistol dagger condition build ( search youtube for wild bill ). That should solve the problem with survivability and the constant damage out put you are looking for. There is no need to change the whole profession when these builds already exist. You are just trying to achieve them with wrong weapon setup.

This build is somewhat broken though but I say they shouldn’t nerf before they fix the rendering bug ( or what it was called ) in wvw. If that won’t help then maybe try to increase revealed time by a second or two.

I love the fact that there are only 2-3 viable options for our class.

Wild Bill – I see these guys all the time now, its funny.
D/D Death Blossom Caltraps – Funny guys.
D/D Backstab. – ALMOST Insta KEEL YOU! (…every 45 seconds…)

We are thieves… where is the “Pirate (P/P)”, “Swashbuckler (S/P)”, “Brigand (S/D)” builds?!

Oh, that is right, there are not many, because the weapon sets are terrible now.

You forget about S/D build , I still find it realy strong , even after nerf.

NightyNight.1823:

You forget about S/D build , I still find it realy strong , even after nerf.

Explain how S/D is strong.

tagnut.8621:

Hate to rain on your parade but you don’t need to be good to play a thief…..

I never said so. Perhaps you can read it again?

tagnut.8621:

NightyNight.1823:

tagnut.8621:

I have no idea how much health he had – but he happily walked in (invisible ofc) dropped one guy to downed, went invisible again (ofc) we started to aoe and rez and stomp – then ofc he went invisible again.

because ofc the godmode invisible insane damage class is perfectly fine /rolleyes.

Noone in this game thinks thieves are balanced – fix it ANET before its too late.

If he managed to drop down a guy in the middle of a group ,he’s deffo à glass cannon so yes 10k hp and 900 toughness.And he walked away? You’re a joke lol .What do you know about game breaking stuff.Stop raging and learn how to play.

This is the thief mentality – keep throwing up bs in the hope godmode isn’t removed.

I’ve taken 12k backstabs
6-8k cnds
8k steals
6k heartseekers
watched thieves dance into the middle of groups, grab kills and escape unscathed

And still there are idiots like above who bluster that its fine. Its not. Its far from fine.

This is the nerfer mentality. Keep spouting BS by calling thief god mode. And still there are idiots like this one who bluster that it is broken without offering real proof.

Daecollo.9578:

NightyNight.1823:

You forget about S/D build , I still find it realy strong , even after nerf.

Explain how S/D is strong.

You explain how BS is viable .
S/D was OP before and now its just good.If you didn’t realise that its just your loss.Don’t realy care to explain you.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

tagnut.8621:

NightyNight.1823:

tagnut.8621:

I have no idea how much health he had – but he happily walked in (invisible ofc) dropped one guy to downed, went invisible again (ofc) we started to aoe and rez and stomp – then ofc he went invisible again.

because ofc the godmode invisible insane damage class is perfectly fine /rolleyes.

Noone in this game thinks thieves are balanced – fix it ANET before its too late.

If he managed to drop down a guy in the middle of a group ,he’s deffo à glass cannon so yes 10k hp and 900 toughness.And he walked away? You’re a joke lol .What do you know about game breaking stuff.Stop raging and learn how to play.

This is the thief mentality – keep throwing up bs in the hope godmode isn’t removed.

I’ve taken 12k backstabs
6-8k cnds
8k steals
6k heartseekers
watched thieves dance into the middle of groups, grab kills and escape unscathed

And still there are idiots like above who bluster that its fine. Its not. Its far from fine.

This is the nerfer mentality. Keep spouting BS by calling thief god mode. And still there are idiots like this one who bluster that it is broken without offering real proof.

12k backstab
6-8k cnd
8k steal
6k heartseeker
invisibility on demand

Nuff said. It needs nerfing.

Wane.4358:

Only issue I have is the Over Powered backstab. My p/d thief has just over 20k hp, and was downed in under 2 seconds. Not my idea of a fight. Stealth is fine and doesnt need to be touched. Just need the backstab build needs to be looked at and balancing.

“Nerf only the build I don’t play! Don’t nerf the one I do play!”

~

Anyway, these “OP!”/“Not OP!” arguments are so full of fact-free hyperbole that I’m not even gonna bother today. Let’s actually talk about the thief’s gameplay instead.

There is something about the way thieves are set up that I think is a bit unfortunate: fighting the common thief builds effectively tends to demand more knowledge of their mechanics than actually playing them does.

For example, did you know you can use your auto-attack chain to detect stealthed thieves? Betcha more than half the people playing thieves don’t know this.

There are lots of little quirks and opaque mechanics like this. They contribute to a feeling of frustration and confusion that players experience when fighting thieves. Which is, in turn, what drives them to the forums to complain.

I think there are ways to alleviate some of that confusion without actually nerfing thieves statistically. For instance, maybe hitting people in stealth should provide more obvious feedback? There’s already feedback, but you have to be watching your UI like a hawk — so much that, like I said, most players don’t even know it’s there. Fighting the UI isn’t fun and it’s not good gameplay.

ASP.8093:

I think there are ways to alleviate some of that confusion without actually nerfing thieves statistically. For instance, maybe hitting people in stealth should provide more obvious feedback? There’s already feedback, but you have to be watching your UI like a hawk — so much that, like I said, most players don’t even know it’s there. Fighting the UI isn’t fun and it’s not good gameplay.

If something like that happens then it should only pertain to the player(s) that actually hit the thief, not everyone around just because one player actually hit them.

the only problem with thieves is that they can abuse the stealth

their burst dmg is great which is fine because it is what they do
what i dont like is that they can do great dmg w/o dying at all because they can vanish at any time if the oponent can survive long enough to fight back
the only needed thing imo is to increase the time between stealths by adding penalty for short time that prevents them to stealth (10s or something not too long) because there are are no abilities to reveal them including aoe which only deals dmg but does not break it.

Maybe when you hit a thief in stealth, have damage numbers pop up on the screen and have the regular flashes/sounds play when you normally hit things?

Daecollo.9578:

I love the fact that there are only 2-3 viable options for our class.

Wild Bill – I see these guys all the time now, its funny.
D/D Death Blossom Caltraps – Funny guys.
D/D Backstab. – ALMOST Insta KEEL YOU! (…every 45 seconds…)

We are thieves… where is the “Pirate (P/P)”, “Swashbuckler (S/P)”, “Brigand (S/D)” builds?!

Oh, that is right, there are not many, because the weapon sets are terrible now.

P/P don’t know.

S/P? Shadowstep, infiltrator’s signet, Haste.
Signet of rage, and the quickness on crit trate.
Proceed to smash people in the face.

S/D is good as well but D/D is overshadowing it. 10/30/30 or 10/30/0/30.

kenshinakh.3672:

Maybe when you hit a thief in stealth, have damage numbers pop up on the screen and have the regular flashes/sounds play when you normally hit things?

If you have a skill 1 that is a chain skill (3 steps) whenever you hit a thief, the skill changes pointing out that you hit him. To put it bluntly many weapons already detect thief’s. If you’re not running them it’s your loss.
Basically all of these weapons
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chain
Can show if you’re hitting a thief, I think except for necro scepter (but not sure) and mesmer scepter is unreliable as well for that.
Basically the only one who can’t “find” a melee thief is an elementalist.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

ASP.8093:

I think there are ways to alleviate some of that confusion without actually nerfing thieves statistically. For instance, maybe hitting people in stealth should provide more obvious feedback? There’s already feedback, but you have to be watching your UI like a hawk — so much that, like I said, most players don’t even know it’s there. Fighting the UI isn’t fun and it’s not good gameplay.

If something like that happens then it should only pertain to the player(s) that actually hit the thief, not everyone around just because one player actually hit them.

Agreed. Give everyone an easy-to-understand way to spot thieves, but make them have to actually work to share that information.

Adding damage numbers might be the easiest way to implement it. My first thought is damage numbers for direct attacks, include area effects, but not DOT conditions. This makes area attacks pretty powerful at finding thieves, but a good thief can still, like, move around.

(Breaking stealth on damage is definitely off the table. You’d have to totally redo weapon skills. And I think people would actually complain more once they saw how hard you’d have to buff up sneak attacks to make them worth the effort.)

ensoriki.5789:

S/D is good as well but D/D is overshadowing it. 10/30/30 or 10/30/0/30.

or 10/30/0/0/30

Thief – a joke.

tagnut.8621:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

tagnut.8621:

NightyNight.1823:

tagnut.8621:

I have no idea how much health he had – but he happily walked in (invisible ofc) dropped one guy to downed, went invisible again (ofc) we started to aoe and rez and stomp – then ofc he went invisible again.

because ofc the godmode invisible insane damage class is perfectly fine /rolleyes.

Noone in this game thinks thieves are balanced – fix it ANET before its too late.

If he managed to drop down a guy in the middle of a group ,he’s deffo à glass cannon so yes 10k hp and 900 toughness.And he walked away? You’re a joke lol .What do you know about game breaking stuff.Stop raging and learn how to play.

This is the thief mentality – keep throwing up bs in the hope godmode isn’t removed.

I’ve taken 12k backstabs
6-8k cnds
8k steals
6k heartseekers
watched thieves dance into the middle of groups, grab kills and escape unscathed

And still there are idiots like above who bluster that its fine. Its not. Its far from fine.

This is the nerfer mentality. Keep spouting BS by calling thief god mode. And still there are idiots like this one who bluster that it is broken without offering real proof.

12k backstab
6-8k cnd
8k steal
6k heartseeker
invisibility on demand

Nuff said. It needs nerfing.

what class build are you running?

shochinhwa.1648:

Thief – a joke.

hence all the crying (hands you a tissue)

28 page thread, 3 months after game release. What other class has this many complaints?

If you think thieves are perfectly fine and other people don’t know how to play the game then have fun when population drops and you have nothing to gank in wvw.

28 pages of baseless QQ.

The only problem with thieves is the way culling affects them.

Fix culling and you’re well on your way to culling the tears too.

LOCO.1785:

28 pages of baseless QQ.

The only problem with thieves is the way culling affects them.

Fix culling and you’re well on your way to culling the tears too.

That is a bunch of crap as evident by the lack of 28 page threads complaining about any other class.

rancidstick.2704:

LOCO.1785:

28 pages of baseless QQ.

The only problem with thieves is the way culling affects them.

Fix culling and you’re well on your way to culling the tears too.

That is a bunch of crap as evident by the lack of 28 page threads complaining about any other class.

Rogues/thieves/assassins or any other stealth class has always been the target of nerf calling and qqing in almost every MMO that has had them available. This type of crying is not exclusive to this game.

People just don’t like being caught off guard.

Unfortunately for the the thief, or any other stealth class, is catching people off guard is the whole point of the class. By design we are built to be opportunists.

If ANY class just chooses to rush head on, or stand still in one place and snipe from far away. You make yourself a vulnerable target. At least other classes have the choice to play hit and run or not, and still be useful. A thief has no choice BUT to.

Thieves force people to pay attention to what is going on around them, and to be ready at all times. isn’t that what PvP is all about? or would you prefer mindless zerging or sniping all the time?

If thieves werent what they are, then there would only be pure ranged or pure melee classes. Ranged classes would dominate all the time due to the reach advantage. wed pretty much have a 3rd person shooter, or ranged classes chasing melee in a cat/mouse scenario.

rock/paper/scissors = thief/melee/caster & ranged

Learn it. Love it. Or keep crying.

Zwipe.5419:

rancidstick.2704:

LOCO.1785:

28 pages of baseless QQ.

The only problem with thieves is the way culling affects them.

Fix culling and you’re well on your way to culling the tears too.

That is a bunch of crap as evident by the lack of 28 page threads complaining about any other class.

Rogues/thieves/assassins or any other stealth class has always been the target of nerf calling and qqing in almost every MMO that has had them available. This type of crying is not exclusive to this game.

People just don’t like being caught off guard.

Unfortunately for the the thief, or any other stealth class, is catching people off guard is the whole point of the class. By design we are built to be opportunists.

If ANY class just chooses to rush head on, or stand still in one place and snipe from far away. You make yourself a vulnerable target. At least other classes have the choice to play hit and run or not, and still be useful. A thief has no choice BUT to.

Thieves force people to pay attention to what is going on around them, and to be ready at all times. isn’t that what PvP is all about? or would you prefer mindless zerging or sniping all the time?

If thieves werent what they are, then there would only be pure ranged or pure melee classes. Ranged classes would dominate all the time due to the reach advantage. wed pretty much have a 3rd person shooter, or ranged classes chasing melee in a cat/mouse scenario.

rock/paper/scissors = thief/melee/caster & ranged

Learn it. Love it. Or keep crying.

Stealth class being target of whining in almost all mmos is just conjecture. Especially when you imply it is warrant less.

Your caught off guard point is also irrelevant since all the people in any class who play hit and run require others to be caught off guard. Hell every fight aims for that.

Any class that chooses to rush into an impossible fight will most likely die, a thief has twice the chance of getting away.

There is no situation in WvW where a thief forces others to pay more attention. You’re running solo? Better pay attention to anyone. Running in a zerg? Same thing. You don’t pay attention in either and you’re dead unless you’re fighting no one.

People break ranks in zergs all the time without thieves. People don’t just carry multiple weapon sets because of thieves.

Anyone without a rendering problem can see thieves coming from 1500+ range. Once they stealth and attack, you’re stuck either flailing around with your auto attack or blowing your blocks and aoes that anyone can see and easily avoid. And then you either blew all your cooldowns on a fight that never happen or the thief finds out they can’t take you on and run away easily.

Thieves can go full glass cannon and have a higher survival rate than any other melee class going glass cannon. Any class can get the jump on someone, thieves are the only ones that can leave when they want without being seen.

Good thing I made the switch to a thief in wvw.

rancidstick.2704:

LOCO.1785:

28 pages of baseless QQ.

The only problem with thieves is the way culling affects them.

Fix culling and you’re well on your way to culling the tears too.

That is a bunch of crap as evident by the lack of 28 page threads complaining about any other class.

He’s right tbh…

Until they fix culling, increase the reveal debuff time to prevent permanent/near permanent (visual) invis. After they fix culling, switch it back. All of this could have been stopped months ago with a very quick fix – . -

Thief is now balanced and the rest of the issues that people have are just l2p issues.

Note Scrubs always will complain about these FOOS classes… and that says nothing about the balance of the game.

Any class can get the jump on someone, thieves are the only ones that can leave when they want without being seen.

Mesmer can too…

Culling in WvW is all that needs attention.

In PvP there is no culling and after Rabbit levels there are no complaints about thieves or warriors because everyone’s learned how to avoid being insta-gib’d.

Faeyd.5094:

Culling in WvW is all that needs attention.

In PvP there is no culling and after Rabbit levels there are no complaints about thieves or warriors because everyone’s learned how to avoid being insta-gib’d.

sPvP in this game is played by a very minor part of the population and dying in it doesn’t carry with it the same penalties as WvW.
Besides that the capture point objectives in sPvP the closer areas, detract from what people complain about thieves, that’s why people don’t complain about it in the forums.

Fixing culling would probably eliminate some issues, but I think a problem would still remain.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Besides that the capture point objectives in sPvP the closer areas, detract from what people complain about thieves, that’s why people don’t complain about it in the forums.

I dunno about that. The tighter spaces in SPvP make it easier for a thief to “reset” a fight, in my experience. Using (Infiltrator’s Strike→)Shadow Return to pop back behind a wall and your opponent has no clue where you went, for instance. In WvW thieves generally just have to pop Shadow Refuge and then hoof it.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Faeyd.5094:

Culling in WvW is all that needs attention.

In PvP there is no culling and after Rabbit levels there are no complaints about thieves or warriors because everyone’s learned how to avoid being insta-gib’d.

sPvP in this game is played by a very minor part of the population and dying in it doesn’t carry with it the same penalties as WvW.
Besides that the capture point objectives in sPvP the closer areas, detract from what people complain about thieves, that’s why people don’t complain about it in the forums.

Fixing culling would probably eliminate some issues, but I think a problem would still remain.

I WvW a ranger and thief and PvP on everything. It’s far easier to be thief like in a small town full of buildings and walls. In WvW it is far harder to be unseen… what makes thieves devastating in WvW is culling and poorly equipped and inexperienced players. We can’t do much about the latter… so the former needs attention.

Arenanet’s words:

“Class balance philosophies
We normally try to employ metered and controlled balance changes with each pass, rather than huge reductions or improvements to classes. We want to get all classes on the same playing field, and we want to avoid “whack-a-mole” style balance. HUGH increases and HUGE decreases lead to meta instability, and thusly, we try to make multiple small tweaks rather than putting in massive changes that we have to later correct.
When designing and balancing the classes, we try to make sure that class roles and identities stay intact. So, in doing so, we make sure that there are rules and boundaries outlining the capabilities and weaknesses of each class.”

You have the audacity to call the following “metered and controlled” balance changes?
-Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.
-Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15%
-Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33%

Not to mention the plethora of unjustified and insane thief nerfs you introduced before that.

According to arenanet, “Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.”

We are NOT the masters of mobility or high single target damage. Every other profession now (thanks to a recent patch) has the ability to keep up with the thief in terms of mobility, as you’ve given them 25% increased speed signets or ways to constantly/permanently maintain swiftness.

Every other profession can deal high damage while having more damage mitigation (includes higher health, protection, toughness, etc) than thieves. Thieves, in order to deliver somewhat high damage, must completely give up most damage mitigation and go full glass cannon.

Arenanet, get your act together. Stop being biased and prejudiced towards the thief profession. Stop listening to the hoards of uninformed, biased, hurt, irrational, emotional, myopic, unskilled people unjustly lambasting the thief profession.

So I’m heading back to SM from Klovan and come across a thief behind our lines jumping a mesmer. There’s an elementalist just behind me. We pitch in with our guy.

Over 45 seconds of fight the thief restealths SEVEN times, and each time he reappears he’s back at full health. We get a few seconds of target time but then no off he pops again and reappears at full health. After 45 seconds he decides he’s not getting a kill this time and vanishes off freely into the distance.

Broken overpowered class in desperate need of a whole lot of nerfing.

Wilow.3061:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Zwipe.5419:

CHIPS.6018:

Zwipe.5419:

All I got have to say to the dev team is PLEASE do not give in to all the people crying for nerfs on thieves.

I played a thief and I want them to be nerfed. Thieves are killing this game.

do we hit hard?yes.

is it unavoidable?no.

no need to nerf.

Heartseeker is unavoidable. Once Dodge bar is empty. And since you can spam it 4-6 times depending on build, I say ‘it IS unavoidable’. Mesmer have daze and Knockback that can be time to interrupt.

The only way to beat thief is to interrupt him. Loosing endurance or hp = win for thief. Cause he gets so close to an ‘easy burst target’ down, that you can’t do a kitten against it. Interrupt works because it EATS the iniative, without the thief making progress (removing endurance/hp). Ele got one knockback every 40 secs. Apart from that you have full freedom to spam heartseeker down on our throat.

95% Unavoidable on non interrupt professions.

What kind of ele do you have? Most common PvP weapon for Ele is D/D, so you would have:

-1 knock back/down every 40 secs
-1 2 sec knockdown every 45 secs
-1 (buggy at times) 2 sec Immobilize every 12 secs
-3 sec cripple every 6 secs
-1 1200 range get out of jail free card every 15 sec
-4 sec aura that stuns for 1 sec every 25 secs
-3 sec chill every 15 secs
-7 sec aura that chills for 2 sec every 40 secs
…and those are just your weapon skills

Ele is probably one of the better professions that can get away from melee (if you don’t know what chill/cripple do to HS spamming morons, then this is 100% a L2P issue). I’m not going to get into the traits that give eles the best Endurance management in the game…

I wish it was as easy as this. Thiefs move so fast in their Heartseeker flow, that targetting them with either one of the skills often fails they kinda dodge it with heartseeker leap. If it hits, i’m close to the thief, wich means, cripple/chill, not gonna prevent the thief from Heartseekign me, as, this only works while being far. Maybe the chill will work, but regardless. The stun aura is weak. Yes it stuns you so what? The damage form heartseeker COMES TRU, and you are NOT INTERRUPTED. Basically it buys 1 sec time, wich is nothing to the crazy heartseeking damage speed.

Thirdly, You have to know if it’s berserker/bunker thief you are fighting, but to know that you must take damage, and waste skills meanwhile on the thief. When you finally know what kind of thief he is, he has you 30-50% down on hp, and an advantage. But that’s just my take on it. Show me vid how to counter one of those thiefs who daily play wvw (and have skill). Ele’s can be anoying, but are still squishy as hell. Our damage is nothing compared to thiefs, and with their medium armor, (even glass canon), they absort, the biggest spikes of ele. I hitted them often with Burning speed (flame blast, 3k damage tops), and Churning Earth (should be 7k total – with burning speed, 11k with all bleeds going off), somehow they got the bleeds off very fast, healed at the same time, leaving me with two of my best skills on cooldown, still spamming their ‘25% of ele bunker builded hp’ damaging skills – and they were still full hp. And when you finally get as close to the thief having 20% hp left. They always vanish even if they already consumed 3 cloacks. Shadow refuge must be standed in 4 secs, to not be revealed. I casted churning earth the second, it went off (3,25 cast), and I layed it that way it’s 360 radius was bigger everywhere then the Shadow refuge (so even if he ran out he will still probably be hit by it), he had 2k health tops before cloacking (SR). Did the die? Nope not at all. I pressed closest enemy button often enough, and he just disappeared. I tested this often enough to make sure it wasnt ‘a to late’ on my end. Somehow they slip tru aoe damage while SR’ing.

Either thief cloacking has glitches, that some thiefs are abusing now, or they are overpowered. And either way they must be fixed. Burst professions always must have downsides, and now they can be cheated apon (those downsides), like iniative emptyness.

Fact remains if thief is weak, they why is it one of the most (if not most) chosen profession in wvw? If it’s barely manageble, and barely reliable enough, then why all those thiefs, not choose another profesison? Especially after 3 months, (and wvw is a non stop battle, that never ends, so plenty time), i think the most used profession, give a good representation of the strongest profession.

rancidstick.2704:

28 page thread, 3 months after game release. What other class has this many complaints?

If you think thieves are perfectly fine and other people don’t know how to play the game then have fun when population drops and you have nothing to gank in wvw.

Make this thread a limit of 1 post per account and you will see a different picture. The Devs created this probably in the hope of it being a suggestion on how to fix this thread. But then they started merging all QQ threads INTO this thread. I’ve seen many posters (including me) state the same qq/rebuttle/nosense several times (XII is the first name that comes to mind). So this 28 page thread means only that some people hate a class that kills them over and over so much that they would rather froth at the mouth claiming this 1 class is killing the game. Get over yourselves, they’ve heard what you have to say, please don’t post again until you have something new to bring to the table.

Yes the usual rebuttal is:

dodge 17 times
perma spam aoe all round you and pray

Thief is the game breaker – its severely overpowered. Drop its burst by half and it’d still be strong. As it is now its nonsense.

(And to reverse your position – do the 1 post count and you’d have the same 5 or 6 thieves who want godmode to remain desperately fighting a rearguard don’t nerf me campaign)

tagnut.8621:

Yes the usual rebuttal is:

dodge 17 times
perma spam aoe all round you and pray

Thief is the game breaker – its severely overpowered. Drop its burst by half and it’d still be strong. As it is now its nonsense.

(And to reverse your position – do the 1 post count and you’d have the same 5 or 6 thieves who want godmode to remain desperately fighting a rearguard don’t nerf me campaign)

No, the rebuttal is eat heartseekers while above 50%, put AoEs on yourself, and dodge heartseekers under 50%. Snare and spike, and always keep swinging. Its not as if thieves never fight each other, and if you read through the forums or ask for advice on how to take down a thief, you will find earnest advice on how to deal with the class.

I don’t have a problem with the thief being a front loaded damage class. I think what makes them imbalanced is that they don’t have to commit to any fight and can make mistakes due to their escape mechanics, which are overpowered.

I’d like to see harsher penalties involved when using stealth skills/escapes. These can include increased cooldowns on offensive skills, heal penalties (like QZ), self-inflicted conditions/stuns, etc.

I think the thief should have some no-penalty escapes, but these should be on ultra high CDs (90s+).

The amount of times a thief can escape dance in a fight is pretty obscene. If your a front loaded “assassin” class and you fail, you should get no more than maybe 1 90s get out of jail free card, then you pay.

You can’t really diminish the offensive and opportunistic abilities of the class because the thief has its core in hitting fast and hard within small time windows. The problem is the thief’s defensive capabilities and non-penalty play.

There are plenty of youtube vids out there of thieves just escape dancing through fights, never to die and getting multiple attempts to kill a target without ever being at risk.

People like thief because its a risk-free class. You can attempt to assassinate someone as many times as you want an never pay a penalty if you fail.

If the thief fails, there is several ways they can pay. Time or vulnerability all work.

A thief can appear out of stealth with vulnerability stacks or escaping from a fight without using a 90s CD can dump the thief’s entire initiative bar and place initiative gain on a CD period.

Something definitely needs to be done. But like many other people, I can’t wait for this class to be nerfed.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I wish it was as easy as this. Thiefs move so fast in their Heartseeker flow, that targetting them with either one of the skills often fails they kinda dodge it with heartseeker leap. If it hits, i’m close to the thief, wich means, cripple/chill, not gonna prevent the thief from Heartseekign me, as, this only works while being far. Maybe the chill will work, but regardless. The stun aura is weak. Yes it stuns you so what? The damage form heartseeker COMES TRU, and you are NOT INTERRUPTED. Basically it buys 1 sec time, wich is nothing to the crazy heartseeking damage speed.

Thirdly, You have to know if it’s berserker/bunker thief you are fighting, but to know that you must take damage, and waste skills meanwhile on the thief. When you finally know what kind of thief he is, he has you 30-50% down on hp, and an advantage. But that’s just my take on it. Show me vid how to counter one of those thiefs who daily play wvw (and have skill). Ele’s can be anoying, but are still squishy as hell. Our damage is nothing compared to thiefs, and with their medium armor, (even glass canon), they absort, the biggest spikes of ele. I hitted them often with Burning speed (flame blast, 3k damage tops), and Churning Earth (should be 7k total – with burning speed, 11k with all bleeds going off), somehow they got the bleeds off very fast, healed at the same time, leaving me with two of my best skills on cooldown, still spamming their ‘25% of ele bunker builded hp’ damaging skills – and they were still full hp. And when you finally get as close to the thief having 20% hp left. They always vanish even if they already consumed 3 cloacks. Shadow refuge must be standed in 4 secs, to not be revealed. I casted churning earth the second, it went off (3,25 cast), and I layed it that way it’s 360 radius was bigger everywhere then the Shadow refuge (so even if he ran out he will still probably be hit by it), he had 2k health tops before cloacking (SR). Did the die? Nope not at all. I pressed closest enemy button often enough, and he just disappeared. I tested this often enough to make sure it wasnt ‘a to late’ on my end. Somehow they slip tru aoe damage while SR’ing.

Either thief cloacking has glitches, that some thiefs are abusing now, or they are overpowered. And either way they must be fixed. Burst professions always must have downsides, and now they can be cheated apon (those downsides), like iniative emptyness.

Fact remains if thief is weak, they why is it one of the most (if not most) chosen profession in wvw? If it’s barely manageble, and barely reliable enough, then why all those thiefs, not choose another profesison? Especially after 3 months, (and wvw is a non stop battle, that never ends, so plenty time), i think the most used profession, give a good representation of the strongest profession.

It is as easy as that. I know not all those skills will hit them at a reliable rate, but more then enough will help you out. Chilled is the optimal choice, but cripple works in a pinch. Updraft is best, but you need to make sure you are within range. The idea is to take advantage of his crippled state but either attacking him outside his range or running (HS suffers from cripple/chilled just as much as running does, it’s range gets reduced).

If its bunker thief (even though the term bunker doesn’t apply to thieves…they can’t take replenishment, they are just better at avoiding it), they won’t be spamming HS, or even using HS to get close to you really…so this point makes no sense. Are you talking about playing a GS ele? or more of a bunker Ele? Do you trait more damage with a little defense? or more defense with a little less offense? The closer you get to GS status, the harder time you will have dealing with a thief. You, like him, are built to get in a deal damage fast then run away. GS thieves do tend to have an advantage over GS other classes, just as tankier other classes tend to have an advantage over tankier thieves. Also, if you are only really staking 1 condition on him (bleed from Churning Earth) then any class will be able to remove those stacks with ease (an issue I have with conditions in this game and how easy they are to remove…as well as the stack limit). FYI, shadow refuge heals for 1775 (+ healing power), not to mention any traits they might have to regen health during stealth.

I reject your notion that Thief is the most played class in WvW. Were did you get that fact? or is it just something that are making up to validate your opinion? It might just be your server? or one of the other servers you are up against most weeks? Link something that shows/proves your point or I’ll just take that as your opinion (Personally I see mostly GS Warriors attack me on my Thief, and Thieves try to attack me on my Ele…no one really acknowledges my bunker Guardian…)

Maugetarr.6823:

tagnut.8621:

Yes the usual rebuttal is:

dodge 17 times
perma spam aoe all round you and pray

Thief is the game breaker – its severely overpowered. Drop its burst by half and it’d still be strong. As it is now its nonsense.

(And to reverse your position – do the 1 post count and you’d have the same 5 or 6 thieves who want godmode to remain desperately fighting a rearguard don’t nerf me campaign)

No, the rebuttal is eat heartseekers while above 50%, put AoEs on yourself, and dodge heartseekers under 50%. Snare and spike, and always keep swinging. Its not as if thieves never fight each other, and if you read through the forums or ask for advice on how to take down a thief, you will find earnest advice on how to deal with the class.

And that might work if it werent for the fact that the thief then disappears at will.

So lemme see – let him knock me down to 9-10k health.
HS – dodge
HS – dodge
Note – im dodging – he’s taking no damage whilst I’m dodging
I’m out of dodges
HS – 6k
HS – dead

Should I get a few lucky shots in and worry him – poof, vanish, 4-5s he’s back at full health and BAM I’m dead.

The only counter to a thief is another thief. That has to tell you something is badly wrong.

tagnut.8621:

Maugetarr.6823:

tagnut.8621:

Yes the usual rebuttal is:

dodge 17 times
perma spam aoe all round you and pray

Thief is the game breaker – its severely overpowered. Drop its burst by half and it’d still be strong. As it is now its nonsense.

(And to reverse your position – do the 1 post count and you’d have the same 5 or 6 thieves who want godmode to remain desperately fighting a rearguard don’t nerf me campaign)

No, the rebuttal is eat heartseekers while above 50%, put AoEs on yourself, and dodge heartseekers under 50%. Snare and spike, and always keep swinging. Its not as if thieves never fight each other, and if you read through the forums or ask for advice on how to take down a thief, you will find earnest advice on how to deal with the class.

And that might work if it werent for the fact that the thief then disappears at will.

So lemme see – let him knock me down to 9-10k health.
HS – dodge
HS – dodge
Note – im dodging – he’s taking no damage whilst I’m dodging
I’m out of dodges
HS – 6k
HS – dead

Should I get a few lucky shots in and worry him – poof, vanish, 4-5s he’s back at full health and BAM I’m dead.

The only counter to a thief is another thief. That has to tell you something is badly wrong.

If the only counter to a thief is another thief, why do plenty of non-thief players keep posting about defeating thieves with ease? And in the scenario that you present, are you doing nothing to counter the thief? knockdowns? invulns… anything beyond dodging?

Hi arena net if you want to make the game balance please fucus on number 5 dagger skill of thief this is the only thing that make the thief over using there stealth and its unfair to all class., thief will say its unfair if this #5 dagger skill will have cool down but they over using this and make a lot of unfair to all class., im going to ask you arena net how come other class survive even w/out stealth? If you guys put some cool down for that #5 dagger skill the game for thief will become balance because they cant over use there stealth., only 1 skill can make the changes the #5 dagger skill., thats the only problem for thief! Hope you guys listen to this. I dont care if they have high damage the only concern here is they have a lot of damage what if put some cooldown for #5 dagger so that they cant stealth every 2 – 3 sec how anoed is that?

Aratoa.7398:

tagnut.8621:

Maugetarr.6823:

tagnut.8621:

Yes the usual rebuttal is:

dodge 17 times
perma spam aoe all round you and pray

Thief is the game breaker – its severely overpowered. Drop its burst by half and it’d still be strong. As it is now its nonsense.

(And to reverse your position – do the 1 post count and you’d have the same 5 or 6 thieves who want godmode to remain desperately fighting a rearguard don’t nerf me campaign)

No, the rebuttal is eat heartseekers while above 50%, put AoEs on yourself, and dodge heartseekers under 50%. Snare and spike, and always keep swinging. Its not as if thieves never fight each other, and if you read through the forums or ask for advice on how to take down a thief, you will find earnest advice on how to deal with the class.

And that might work if it werent for the fact that the thief then disappears at will.

So lemme see – let him knock me down to 9-10k health.
HS – dodge
HS – dodge
Note – im dodging – he’s taking no damage whilst I’m dodging
I’m out of dodges
HS – 6k
HS – dead

Should I get a few lucky shots in and worry him – poof, vanish, 4-5s he’s back at full health and BAM I’m dead.

The only counter to a thief is another thief. That has to tell you something is badly wrong.

If the only counter to a thief is another thief, why do plenty of non-thief players keep posting about defeating thieves with ease? And in the scenario that you present, are you doing nothing to counter the thief? no attacks? knockdowns? invulns… anything beyond dodging?

Those would be thief players with alts running the ‘dont nerf my godmode class’ defence.

tagnut.8621:

Aratoa.7398:

tagnut.8621:

Maugetarr.6823:

tagnut.8621:

Yes the usual rebuttal is:

dodge 17 times
perma spam aoe all round you and pray

Thief is the game breaker – its severely overpowered. Drop its burst by half and it’d still be strong. As it is now its nonsense.

(And to reverse your position – do the 1 post count and you’d have the same 5 or 6 thieves who want godmode to remain desperately fighting a rearguard don’t nerf me campaign)

No, the rebuttal is eat heartseekers while above 50%, put AoEs on yourself, and dodge heartseekers under 50%. Snare and spike, and always keep swinging. Its not as if thieves never fight each other, and if you read through the forums or ask for advice on how to take down a thief, you will find earnest advice on how to deal with the class.

And that might work if it werent for the fact that the thief then disappears at will.

So lemme see – let him knock me down to 9-10k health.
HS – dodge
HS – dodge
Note – im dodging – he’s taking no damage whilst I’m dodging
I’m out of dodges
HS – 6k
HS – dead

Should I get a few lucky shots in and worry him – poof, vanish, 4-5s he’s back at full health and BAM I’m dead.

The only counter to a thief is another thief. That has to tell you something is badly wrong.

If the only counter to a thief is another thief, why do plenty of non-thief players keep posting about defeating thieves with ease? And in the scenario that you present, are you doing nothing to counter the thief? no attacks? knockdowns? invulns… anything beyond dodging?

Those would be thief players with alts running the ‘dont nerf my godmode class’ defence.

So everyone who says they can beat a thief is just a thief player in disguise (and with an agenda no less)? Wow. That’s… really something if you honestly believe that. Regardless of that, please answer my second question as well, in your scenario you have enough time to enact a defense, why are you not doing so? HS is not an instant attack. To get that many off would require quite a few seconds of continual assault so why are you not defending yourself with anything beyond dodging?

tagnut.8621:

Aratoa.7398:

tagnut.8621:

Maugetarr.6823:

tagnut.8621:

Yes the usual rebuttal is:

dodge 17 times
perma spam aoe all round you and pray

Thief is the game breaker – its severely overpowered. Drop its burst by half and it’d still be strong. As it is now its nonsense.

(And to reverse your position – do the 1 post count and you’d have the same 5 or 6 thieves who want godmode to remain desperately fighting a rearguard don’t nerf me campaign)

No, the rebuttal is eat heartseekers while above 50%, put AoEs on yourself, and dodge heartseekers under 50%. Snare and spike, and always keep swinging. Its not as if thieves never fight each other, and if you read through the forums or ask for advice on how to take down a thief, you will find earnest advice on how to deal with the class.

And that might work if it werent for the fact that the thief then disappears at will.

So lemme see – let him knock me down to 9-10k health.
HS – dodge
HS – dodge
Note – im dodging – he’s taking no damage whilst I’m dodging
I’m out of dodges
HS – 6k
HS – dead

Should I get a few lucky shots in and worry him – poof, vanish, 4-5s he’s back at full health and BAM I’m dead.

The only counter to a thief is another thief. That has to tell you something is badly wrong.

If the only counter to a thief is another thief, why do plenty of non-thief players keep posting about defeating thieves with ease? And in the scenario that you present, are you doing nothing to counter the thief? no attacks? knockdowns? invulns… anything beyond dodging?

Those would be thief players with alts running the ‘dont nerf my godmode class’ defence.

It is only easier for thieves to take down thieves because they are aware of the shortcomings of the class. You ingnored the part about rooting. In addition, any sort of CC will be very effective against a D/D thief. It really only takes a few luck hits on a thief to down them with GC thieves having a healthpool around 13k at most. A warrior’s autoattack can easily accomplish this, not to mention any real weapon skills.

tagnut.8621:

Yes the usual rebuttal is:

dodge 17 times
perma spam aoe all round you and pray

Thief is the game breaker – its severely overpowered. Drop its burst by half and it’d still be strong. As it is now its nonsense.

(And to reverse your position – do the 1 post count and you’d have the same 5 or 6 thieves who want godmode to remain desperately fighting a rearguard don’t nerf me campaign)

I don’t play D/D outside dungeons. When I WvW I play P/D or S/D if I’m playing with thief friends. I don’t care if you nerf BS into the ground so that it does 5 damage on a crit. My issue is so far they have gone out of their way to not nerf BS, which is forcing more and more thieves to roll BS. Biggest problem I’m seeing with this posts is GCs QQing that they got rolled by other GCs, but say they are built bunker, or the people complaining about not being able to see thieves when they are not in stealth, which hopefully will get fixed soon.

QQ
Thief hit me for 20k followed by 20k followed by 20k, and I have 3000 toughness and 30k health. OP class is breaking the game. Fix this or I can GUARANTEE everyone other then Thieves will leave your game.

When will the culling/rendering out of stealth be fixed?
This is getting too annoying really.
I just rolled my lvl 28 thief into WvW and I can easily keep 4 ppl distracted for 10 mins without getting under 75% health, all because of too much stealth/not rendering giving me even more time annoy enemies.
Also a general nuisance when fighting thieves.

At least in GW1, when an assassin used his burst and failed, he’d have to be really good to stay alive, while now there is the panic button stealth spam.

Supreme.4051:

When will the culling/rendering out of stealth be fixed?
This is getting too annoying really.
I just rolled my lvl 28 thief into WvW and I can easily keep 4 ppl distracted for 10 mins without getting under 75% health, all because of too much stealth/not rendering giving me even more time annoy enemies.
Also a general nuisance when fighting thieves.

At least in GW1, when an assassin used his burst and failed, he’d have to be really good to stay alive, while now there is the panic button stealth spam.

Whats this panic button with a short recharge I can press?

You can’t spam stealth. It costs 6 ini to do CnD, and missing just one right after you attack someone can really make you vulnerable. The key to beating thieves is timing your dodge, and timing their stealth. If you learn to count 3s without thinking about it, and FEEL the flow of the battle, thieves are easy to beat.