Guild Wars 2

In a game where the goal is to keep points and to win team fights on points this class is just utterly ridiculous and overpowered and uncounterable and the design is HORRIBLE

thief can cast teleport and invisibility skills EVEN WHILE CC-ed, they have 5 times more iframes than any other class and are basically " immune " to slows so they can ignore every single CC in the game (Except damaging conditions but they can spec some condi removal instead) – a good thief will NEVER die and that makes all other classes and people obsolete

you DO NOT HAVE TO WIN PVP to win in Gw2 and that’s why thief is op, there isn’t a single class that can catch thief and at the same time thief can’t be killed (even if outplayed) because it can just cast skills at any time and at any point. A good thief is already hard enough to kill 1v1 as it is (because of the amount of iframes they have) but they dont ever need to commit to a losing fight – if you’re losing (say vs a guard or w/e) you can just disengage, go in the other corner of the map, zerg his teammates then zerg him and you win

Nobody can catch or keep up to a thief so the only way to keep your point is to have someone sitting on it all the time and then thief can just +1 zerg your team with its mobility and then they zerg you for standing on point while your teammates are dead. The only counter to thief is to have another thief chasing that thief and also doing more work and doing better than him so you can have the upper hand and that isn’t a counter at all

if i played a warr ? sure i could kill thief but if the thief is good he won’t fight me unless he has an advantage and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THAT I CAN DO ABOUT IT. No class can catch thief because no class has 0 sec cd environment teleport. He can just run to close and decap our point while im RUNNING LIKE A PLEB
if i played guard? same story except i have 2 teleports so its slightly better but still bad when they’re on cd (and they do have huge cooldown)

if i played engineer? LMAO whats an engineer gonna do to a thief ? (actually condi engi is ok vs thief but then again he wont die unless he fails or overcommits which he isnt forced to do)

so the fact that the class cant be killed and it also can’t be caught just makes it ridiculously overpowered and uncounterable and when you go play a game if your thief is worse than enemy thief you’re almost sure to lose even if the rest of your teammates are better, simply because a full damage +1 guy with tab target insta cast no animation teleports makes too huge of a difference and the burst a thief can provide in a team fight (and then not even have to die for it) is just too big, and then if that fails he can just decap points forever and the only person capable of keeping up is your thief – which is not you – so you’re irrelevant – nice game design how incredibly unfair and unfun is that?
thieves should be reworked/removed for the good of this game

Lol did thief get a buff or something in the past month or something? Last I checked thief was highly killable. What happened?

You just seem mad to be mad. If you have map awareness you can tell that a thief is going to +1 you. Once they decap what do u think their next plan is? Power thief hasn’t changed in a while. If your complaining about it I’d say its just out of salt over it actually being “OP”.

Only thieves that I find unkillable are good condi daredevils. To much evasion frames mixed in with stacking dmg.

What is an iFrame?

In all seriousness, if you don’t understand a class it will seem OP. Make one and see how OP it actually is.

every class has counters
learn this and prosper friend

While OP is definitely salty there is some merit to the complaint. At least when talking about d/p. Thieves easily are the highest impact class in conquest to the point of being effectively mandatory at higher levels.

Generally speaking the only time a team with a d/p thief will lose to a team that doesn’t have a d /p thief, is if the rest of the thief’s team is so bad that they can’t win fights that they outnumber in. If the teams skill level is even remotely equal the team with the d/p will win everytime.

saerni.2584:

In all seriousness, if you don’t understand a class it will seem OP. Make one and see how OP it actually is.

That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Obviously if he doesn’t play the class he doesn’t have the experience to play it well so obviously he won’t do well with it.

Under your logic all classes are balanced because all classes are bad when played by a player than has no experience with the class.

For everyone quick to jump to the defense of Thief answer a question:

How do you counter a Thief without assuming misplays on the Thief’s part, or that you have a superior Thief?

The OP is right, Thief has a massive impact on the match because they fill an essential role in a point capping game mode. They also fill it in such a way that nothing comes even close – nothing can replace a Thief at decapping/roaming without taking a hit to efficiency.

Assuming the Thief is a good player if you attempt to engage them while they backcap then they’ll move on. They have damaged your team as you’ll take more time chasing/stopping them then they will, they will rejoin the fight sooner, or reach a new point to decap sooner. The Thief wins when a better fighter wastes time chasing them, that is their objective.

Stand The Wall.6987:

every class has counters
learn this and prosper friend

Enlighten us.

Crinn.7864:

While OP is definitely salty there is some merit to the complaint. At least when talking about d/p. Thieves easily are the highest impact class in conquest to the point of being effectively mandatory at higher levels.

Generally speaking the only time a team with a d/p thief will lose to a team that doesn’t have a d /p thief, is if the rest of the thief’s team is so bad that they can’t win fights that they outnumber in. If the teams skill level is even remotely equal the team with the d/p will win everytime.

saerni.2584:

In all seriousness, if you don’t understand a class it will seem OP. Make one and see how OP it actually is.

That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Obviously if he doesn’t play the class he doesn’t have the experience to play it well so obviously he won’t do well with it.

Under your logic all classes are balanced because all classes are bad when played by a player than has no experience with the class.

Wrong:

https://youtu.be/a7oj-0A92Ng?t=23185

I kinda agree with this post. Thief is 100% killable, but in my opinion it’s a “design” problem, i mean, seriously, tell me a class that can catch a thief these days. In wvw is even worse. They simply have too much mobility AND also they are basically immune to cripple-chill-immobilize. In a point-capture mode, where rotating is the key to win a match, they are a serious advantage and no one can counter them except another thief. In my opinion they should reduce the amount of space traveled by dodges or just add a cooldown to the movement-impairing condition removal.

Crinn.7864:

saerni.2584:

In all seriousness, if you don’t understand a class it will seem OP. Make one and see how OP it actually is.

That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Obviously if he doesn’t play the class he doesn’t have the experience to play it well so obviously he won’t do well with it.

Under your logic all classes are balanced because all classes are bad when played by a player than has no experience with the class.

Well not really, I find this method very helpful. Any time I have issues with a certain class I make one and study the most common meta builds. Then I play it in Unranked for a bit to get the feel of how the build works. Once I’m comfortable with it, I play it in Ranked. At that point I will either realize the build is actually just stupid strong, or I notice how other players counter me and what the build’s weak points are. Then it is just a matter of logging back on my main character and applying what I’ve learned.

bluri.2653:

Wrong:

https://youtu.be/a7oj-0A92Ng?t=23185

I apologize for my generalizations not being absolutes.

Although I will point out that the thief team in that match was winning all the way up to the last few seconds, and only lost after making some questionable choices that you yourself called them on in your commentary.

There’s no question thief has high mobility but that doesn’t make the class OP.

And Crinn there is no question badly played is badly played. But good thieves know the limits of what a thief can do and learning those limits is the first step to beating thieves.

Most thieves aren’t good enough that they are “unkillable.” If any player can’t beat a class no matter what then they need to learn how that class ticks.

saerni.2584:

There’s no question thief has high mobility but that doesn’t make the class OP.

And Crinn there is no question badly played is badly played. But good thieves know the limits of what a thief can do and learning those limits is the first step to beating thieves.

Most thieves aren’t good enough that they are “unkillable.” If any player can’t beat a class no matter what then they need to learn how that class ticks.

You would be correct if the primary focus of PvP weren’t mobility. The fact that Thief reigns supreme in mobility is a problem when the meta of a point capture focuses heavily on roaming and decapping.

Thieves are, more or less, unkillable in skilled hands. If you somehow manage to land CC amidst their flurry of iframes, they will stunbreak out, and if they’re clearly outmatched they can simply run.

What, specifically, would you suggest is the counter to this playstyle?

Edit: To be clear, I’m not suggesting that Thieves are statistically OP. Or even that they’re OP in a match breaking way. What I’m suggesting is that Thieves so clearly embody an essential role in the meta and there’s no counter to that role and no profession which performs it better.

Yea, they are too strong right now when it comes to solo, they have just too much roaming power. Thankfully, most thief players are easy to predict and fall off in teamfights so organized groups (which are non-existent right now) don’t get the same amount of use out of them as soloQ players.

Rotation and sometimes standing on a point to hold it. You said mobility is the key to pvp but really holding map control is far more fundamental.

Mobility is shut down by being able to cover points. Usually bunker builds that can survive long enough for help to arrive are good. Forcing thief into team fights where there is more aoe exposure will limit the thiefs damage output depending on the build. The thief may also be caught and turned into cleave bait.

Thief can’t cover all three points so if you can hold home and win at mid by rotating back and forth between home and mid you should be able to get a decap and force thief into more team fights.

Well what other defence does a thief have apart from its mobilty? Everyone knows if they stand still for a second vs a compitent player they will take a huge dent. It’s alright for you lot to hide behind passive anti cc raits/passive dmg midigation/invuls/blocks but when a thief is forced of a point or a fight the only thing they have is to port away, that’s a big no no.

It has been OP since the day came out.

I am the dude who won the solo queue only leaderboards back in the day with the highest MMR and win percentage.

I know what I am talking about and I guarantee that thief is totally broken.

Thief still shuts all other glassy builds out of PvP.

It is the pinnacle of glass cannon builds and single-handedly reduces the build variety greatly.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Well what other defence does a thief have apart from its mobilty? Everyone knows if they stand still for a second vs a compitent player they will take a huge dent. It’s alright for you lot to hide behind passive anti cc raits/passive dmg midigation/invuls/blocks but when a thief is forced of a point or a fight the only thing they have is to port away, that’s a big no no.

This. A thousand times this. Guess what we trade for that high mobility and burst. . . that’s right, generally dying if hit 1-3 times.

As far as no other class being able to outrun the thief: it’s a team class based game. Each class has it’s function, and it’s counter. Complaining that a thief’s ability to move faster than the other classes is unfair is every bit as ridiculous as complaining that a warrior has high damage and armor and it’s unfair to the other classes. . . it’s the nature of each class. It’s like complaining that Shadow Abyss is just, well, too black. . . in other words, silly.

JonnyForgotten.4276:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Well what other defence does a thief have apart from its mobilty? Everyone knows if they stand still for a second vs a compitent player they will take a huge dent. It’s alright for you lot to hide behind passive anti cc raits/passive dmg midigation/invuls/blocks but when a thief is forced of a point or a fight the only thing they have is to port away, that’s a big no no.

This. A thousand times this. Guess what we trade for that high mobility and burst. . . that’s right, generally dying if hit 1-3 times.

As far as no other class being able to outrun the thief: it’s a team class based game. Each class has it’s function, and it’s counter. Complaining that a thief’s ability to move faster than the other classes is unfair is every bit as ridiculous as complaining that a warrior has high damage and armor and it’s unfair to the other classes. . . it’s the nature of each class. It’s like complaining that Shadow Abyss is just, well, too black. . . in other words, silly.

With the ridiculous power creep in HoT a ridiculously high number of builds die in 1-3 hits as soon as their defenses are done. Just because thief’s defenses are evades and i-frames compared to blocks/invulns doesn’t change this. Its not like other classes don’t suffer from the same problem when their defenses are gone.

Thief is the best at their role of mobility. It shouldn’t die if played right, but the argument that the team with the thief will win against a team without is a pretty weak one. Why shouldn’t the team with more mobility have an advantage in that aspect of the match? That’s the equivalent of arguing that a team with a support class will have more support than a team without. It’s very obvious that the team with support will have an edge in teamfight if the team without support doesn’t get a quick down on the other team.

If someone on the team without the thief swapped to a class with some mobility then that statistical advantage of mobility is theoretically evened out. At that point it comes down to player skill. A mesmer can put pressure on the thief’s home if the thief decides to get far and even get back to the team fight arguably just as fast, so it doesn’t even have to be a thief that counters the pressure on points.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Well what other defence does a thief have apart from its mobilty? Everyone knows if they stand still for a second vs a compitent player they will take a huge dent. It’s alright for you lot to hide behind passive anti cc raits/passive dmg midigation/invuls/blocks but when a thief is forced of a point or a fight the only thing they have is to port away, that’s a big no no.

See its funny you mention this, was roaming earlier today on my D/D ele and 2 thieves jumped me from stealth, 10k BS each, instant down. Had I had an auto cast immunity or passive damage reduction (fire, water arcana) then I’d be fine but the 1st hit took me below 50% and the 2nd hit killed me before anything could proc.

What’s the point of this story about an unrelated game mode? Well it’s that these traits are being taken in some way because you can be 100-0 by a stealth attack from 2 classes even in PvP where there’s not really a survival amulet anymore. You can have a thief +1 and down you before you even know it’s there for a lot of players, you can even see it on a lot of streams.

Thief is OP within its role, there’s nothing that can catch it and it takes a dump on quite a lot of classes that can compete in the role.

Now I’m sure someone will bring up ele being OP in PvP, it is within its role. Someone will probably mention about D/D ele not being meta in the example but it’s the best roaming build it has with cele, crusader, commander and marauder mix. The point is a lot of classes are far too strong in their roles but this is very noticeable with thief at the moment.

Exciton.8942:

Thief still shuts all other glassy builds out of PvP.

It is the pinnacle of glass cannon builds and single-handedly reduces the build variety greatly.

this exactly. I also had made a thread complaining about how thief shuts outs all other glassy builds from pvp but it got deleted because reasons.

I’ve been trying to play different glassy builds over time but it just doesn’t feel fun because of how easily thieves can shut me down. Even if i can beat them 1v1 it just doesn’t matter because they just stop doing 1v1 and jump from 54353535 range insta cast no animation teleport 10kbackstab.

i " finally " at least started playing meta guard because they’re semi glassy and can deal with thieves without being shut down… but then comes the part where the thief just goes to roam and constantly decap/zerg around the map and if my thief is worse we end up losing anyway so it doesn’t even matter that i’m playing a guard.

I’m not really playing gw2 " hardcore " because im playing another mmo as main game right now but i still play gw2 here and there (daily pvp usually) so it doesn’t kitten me off as much as it would if i were playing full time but it’s still a pretty lame thing how the only counter to thief is another thief (or hoping he’s not that skilled)

" luckily" player skill is and will never be completely even and even then there’s circumstance and situation which can turn against even good thieves but it doesn’t change everything said.

It could be a good step for gw2 to evolve in a direction where we leave point caps behind and we go to killing and pure pvp without objective other than kills. (or there could be an objective but it should still be centered around kills and they should still be the most important thing ) The pvp could be rebalanced to fit it

Rednova.5283:

Thief is the best at their role of mobility. It shouldn’t die if played right, but the argument that the team with the thief will win against a team without is a pretty weak one. Why shouldn’t the team with more mobility have an advantage in that aspect of the match? That’s the equivalent of arguing that a team with a support class will have more support than a team without. It’s very obvious that the team with support will have an edge in teamfight if the team without support doesn’t get a quick down on the other team.

If someone on the team without the thief swapped to a class with some mobility then that statistical advantage of mobility is theoretically evened out. At that point it comes down to player skill. A mesmer can put pressure on the thief’s home if the thief decides to get far and even get back to the team fight arguably just as fast, so it doesn’t even have to be a thief that counters the pressure on points.

Whether the team with better mobility should have an advantage or not is a different discussion than this one (though really we need another game mode where mobility isn’t nearly as required as it is in conquest, just to have more variety). But it still doesn’t change the fact that thief has no one that can compare with it in terms of mobility and its role in fights. If the other team has a good thief then you are at an inherent disadvantage for the entire game if you either don’t have a thief or have a bad one on your team. And its because no other class can fill that role. That’s not good balance to have 1 class that has no competition at all in its role. It just isn’t.

Op is correct except that since a good thf is so hard to find, it ends up being irrelevant anyway unless you get that rare thf that knows what he’s doing. And if you get bad thf? gg, it’s a 4v5.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/incisorr-9502/showposts

I’m sorry but the OP has been posting this anti thief propaganda since the release of the game. Also lots of anti mesmer too. It seems he/she thinks only big damage should come from Warriors or Rangers lol. An actual post in the history I linked….seriously.

Thieves at this stage in the game are far from OP. If you ignore the thief and win team fights you will make him obsolete. We saw it in Pro league, and we have all seen it during ranked season play. To base your entire opinion off a <5% of active thieves is just a witch hunt at this point in time. I’ve seen warriors carry matches, I’ve seen engies carry matches, I’ve seen Mesmers carry matches, etc etc etc.

I invite the OP or anyone who is having problems with OP thieves to post a video of their gameplay to show us how the thief is OP.

So let’s let this thread die and start a new one with the videos of y’all’s game play. We’ll use this new thread to help give advice & tips on what you should or shouldn’t have done. In some instances I’m sure pro thieves will let you know you had zero chance b/c the player was just that good.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Exciton.8942:

Thief still shuts all other glassy builds out of PvP.

It is the pinnacle of glass cannon builds and single-handedly reduces the build variety greatly.

You’ve mistaken thiefs for dragonhunters….

apharma.3741:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Well what other defence does a thief have apart from its mobilty? Everyone knows if they stand still for a second vs a compitent player they will take a huge dent. It’s alright for you lot to hide behind passive anti cc raits/passive dmg midigation/invuls/blocks but when a thief is forced of a point or a fight the only thing they have is to port away, that’s a big no no.

See its funny you mention this, was roaming earlier today on my D/D ele and 2 thieves jumped me from stealth, 10k BS each, instant down. Had I had an auto cast immunity or passive damage reduction (fire, water arcana) then I’d be fine but the 1st hit took me below 50% and the 2nd hit killed me before anything could proc.

What’s the point of this story about an unrelated game mode? Well it’s that these traits are being taken in some way because you can be 100-0 by a stealth attack from 2 classes even in PvP where there’s not really a survival amulet anymore. You can have a thief +1 and down you before you even know it’s there for a lot of players, you can even see it on a lot of streams.

Thief is OP within its role, there’s nothing that can catch it and it takes a dump on quite a lot of classes that can compete in the role.

Now I’m sure someone will bring up ele being OP in PvP, it is within its role. Someone will probably mention about D/D ele not being meta in the example but it’s the best roaming build it has with cele, crusader, commander and marauder mix. The point is a lot of classes are far too strong in their roles but this is very noticeable with thief at the moment.

If you tool 10k each on an ele then, kitten them 2 must of been very glassy and built just to do that (assuming you are the avg semi tanky ele 2600 armor and above) I very rarly get that hard on my thief. It’s fine for 2 gun flame warriors to do the same thing? Or 2 mesmers ect ect. Actually I have been 1 shotted by a single mesmer.

Anyway back on topic. Yes anyone class that gets focused by at least 2 people should fall fast if they have no defences up, the fact is though thief dosnt have any of them to take take in the first place, I mean ok sure they could go and trait for acro. Weakness alone shuts down thief endurance which is their main defensive point, right? Weakness dosnt stop other people’s defences at all.

Not gonna deny locking a thief down, but tbh they could run before hot anyway, it’s just a lot easier now with dash.

OP is either trolling, joking or just new to PvP.

Thief is in fact one of the least forgiving, and most underpowered classes currently in the game.

One wrong move or one missed dodge means your dead…and with the worst downed state in the game…..(arguably tied with Mes)….once you’re down, you’re dead.

Yes thief is mobile….but they are made that way because they are also made to literally not be able to 1v1 any other well played class.

Back in the day Thief backstabs were hitting for 12-14K…not you’re lucky if you break 8k unless you have a power machine buffing you.

The simple fact is….thief is arguably the weakest class 1v1 AND in group. Their saving grace is their mobility for decapping points. In other words, in solely TDM bg’s like we used to have….having a Thief on your team meant you lost.

Luclinraider.2317:

OP is either trolling, joking or just new to PvP.

Thief is in fact one of the least forgiving, and most underpowered classes currently in the game.

One wrong move or one missed dodge means your dead…and with the worst downed state in the game…..(arguably tied with Mes)….once you’re down, you’re dead.

Yes thief is mobile….but they are made that way because they are also made to literally not be able to 1v1 any other well played class.

Back in the day Thief backstabs were hitting for 12-14K…not you’re lucky if you break 8k unless you have a power machine buffing you.

The simple fact is….thief is arguably the weakest class 1v1 AND in group. Their saving grace is their mobility for decapping points. In other words, in solely TDM bg’s like we used to have….having a Thief on your team meant you lost.

Thief is not OP but daredevil is. Try to catch him in wvw, hes immune to condies movement imparing effects etc. Backstabs still hits for 10k and Vaults for 9k.

Yes, yes they are OP.

My suggestion: go play one.

Once you’ve been countered while playing thief, make sure to message the person who killed you and ask for advice which hacks he was running in order to beat you.

Not shure if thief is OP but he it´s basically correct that killing a good thief is not realy possible. He will run away and fight, cap elswehere an then come back. I kill thief it they miscalculate my build trying to kill me. Nearly all my thief kills are the one´s that think i am close to death and come in for the killing blow while already below 50% on their own.
Well at least there are not so much top thiefs.

Crinn.7864:

bluri.2653:

Wrong:

https://youtu.be/a7oj-0A92Ng?t=23185

I apologize for my generalizations not being absolutes.

Although I will point out that the thief team in that match was winning all the way up to the last few seconds, and only lost after making some questionable choices that you yourself called them on in your commentary.

Sorry but this thief is one of the top thieves in EU having played in ESL/Pro Leauge and they lost 0-3 if thief is so OP as you say then he would have easily won, and if you say otherwise if even a top5 thief can’t carry a game considering how OP the class is we are in a kitten sad state

What does thief have for the team outside of mobility and bit of damage? They can’t support, they can’t hold point, they can’t reliably 1v1 most classes (frankly general tactic is to run from every 1v1), they can’t join big fights (just melt in aoe without anyone even targeting them). It still remains one of the most unforgiving classes as well – you get hit once, you might die on next hit.

Also, no matter how good you are as thief, if your team is crap, you won’t be able to carry it unlike warrior or engi that can 1v2/1v3 for ages.

Let’s also not forget the fact that thief remains the only class in game that you by all means don’t want to stack on your team. If class is so OP, why do people throw tantrum when they end up with 2+ thieves? Let’s also not forget all the tourneys that have been running this and last year – i haven’t seen much carrying from thieves.

What counters thief? Good rotation, good map awareness, certain maps, bunkery teamcomp (win team fights, camp 2 points → thief can’t do anything), portals, focus fire, REVEAL!!!??.

Someone claimed that if OP picked thief, he obviously wouldn’t do well. The joke is, if he picked DH/war/scrapper he could do fairly well with probably like 5 matches of experience…. but thief is OP, yo.

Also, everything Sind said.

1. Warrior and dh easily counter thief.
2. “Uncapped points team fight only” is the best strat vs thief team. Thief is best at decapping but capping is bad for team because it takes too much time. Thief team gonna lose 4v5 100% if thief caps a point. So if u dont have thief in team, u make fastest class (mes, druid or sth) to decap enemy side point and go back to team fight. Thief is useless in team fight so u win easy.

You are looking at thief from wrong diraciton. U say war is good counter but u camp point and watch your team die 4v5 on the map. Thats is wrong strat. If u are a war, just stick to normal duels on point and team fights and what is most important never go cap a point. Only go to decap it and go back to win team fight.

‘class in team based game excels at it’s role’

> queue forum outrage

ugh… sometimes i don’t even know what to say to the community. y’all miss the point so much sometimes

Meta has just changed folks. Just que as thief with another thief and you win all games. Easy points.
You heard it here first!

Thief can not hold a point and it is a +1 class. At the same team level i prefer not to have a thief rather than have one … ( personal opinion ) . I prefer a mesmer with portal , a druid or a warrior in place of a thief ….

Fat Disgrace.4275:

apharma.3741:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Well what other defence does a thief have apart from its mobilty? Everyone knows if they stand still for a second vs a compitent player they will take a huge dent. It’s alright for you lot to hide behind passive anti cc raits/passive dmg midigation/invuls/blocks but when a thief is forced of a point or a fight the only thing they have is to port away, that’s a big no no.

See its funny you mention this, was roaming earlier today on my D/D ele and 2 thieves jumped me from stealth, 10k BS each, instant down. Had I had an auto cast immunity or passive damage reduction (fire, water arcana) then I’d be fine but the 1st hit took me below 50% and the 2nd hit killed me before anything could proc.

What’s the point of this story about an unrelated game mode? Well it’s that these traits are being taken in some way because you can be 100-0 by a stealth attack from 2 classes even in PvP where there’s not really a survival amulet anymore. You can have a thief +1 and down you before you even know it’s there for a lot of players, you can even see it on a lot of streams.

Thief is OP within its role, there’s nothing that can catch it and it takes a dump on quite a lot of classes that can compete in the role.

Now I’m sure someone will bring up ele being OP in PvP, it is within its role. Someone will probably mention about D/D ele not being meta in the example but it’s the best roaming build it has with cele, crusader, commander and marauder mix. The point is a lot of classes are far too strong in their roles but this is very noticeable with thief at the moment.

If you tool 10k each on an ele then, kitten them 2 must of been very glassy and built just to do that (assuming you are the avg semi tanky ele 2600 armor and above) I very rarly get that hard on my thief. It’s fine for 2 gun flame warriors to do the same thing? Or 2 mesmers ect ect. Actually I have been 1 shotted by a single mesmer.

Anyway back on topic. Yes anyone class that gets focused by at least 2 people should fall fast if they have no defences up, the fact is though thief dosnt have any of them to take take in the first place, I mean ok sure they could go and trait for acro. Weakness alone shuts down thief endurance which is their main defensive point, right? Weakness dosnt stop other people’s defences at all.

Not gonna deny locking a thief down, but tbh they could run before hot anyway, it’s just a lot easier now with dash.

The point wasn’t that you die to 2 people the problem is it can be done from stealth from a long distance away and that there’s no indication you’re going to take that 10k bs. This is in some ways and reasons why people are taking passive proc traits like an invuln or damage reduction on first hit. We’d be having the same discussion about power shatter mesmer if it was anywhere near reasonable but like many other classes thief shuts it out almost completely taking a giant dump on it.

You will see 2 gunflame warriors coming, you will see most other classes coming, you don’t see thieves and mesmers coming. Weakness works just as well on other classes, thief doesn’t suddenly lose a dodge because they have weakness nor is their regen affected too much unless you have vigor/acro as they have traits that give a flat amount of endurance back. That’s without mentioning there’s not many classes that have easy access to weakness with only necro and druid being the ones I mostly see. Poison shuts down war regen and healing, chill completely screws over ele to a far bigger extent than weakness on thief but you don’t see them bringing it up all the time.

Edit: just so someone else doesn’t read this and misquote, read what I put before, I put thief is OP within its role not that it is OP as a whole. This is me explaining thief is in some part the cause of people taking these passive traits.

Not a single month since HoT relaese without this discussion. It’s always the same.

Argument: Teef OP because not catchable
Counter-Arguent: Teef can’t kill every class/build and has to run away

People who want to be rewared for a good fight, are frustrated when the teef disengages at will.

Teefs having to disengage, because they are the bottom of aoe sustain, are frustrated.

It’s getting boring!

Teef design is crap for teefs and all other classes.

apharma.3741:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

apharma.3741:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Well what other defence does a thief have apart from its mobilty? Everyone knows if they stand still for a second vs a compitent player they will take a huge dent. It’s alright for you lot to hide behind passive anti cc raits/passive dmg midigation/invuls/blocks but when a thief is forced of a point or a fight the only thing they have is to port away, that’s a big no no.

See its funny you mention this, was roaming earlier today on my D/D ele and 2 thieves jumped me from stealth, 10k BS each, instant down. Had I had an auto cast immunity or passive damage reduction (fire, water arcana) then I’d be fine but the 1st hit took me below 50% and the 2nd hit killed me before anything could proc.

What’s the point of this story about an unrelated game mode? Well it’s that these traits are being taken in some way because you can be 100-0 by a stealth attack from 2 classes even in PvP where there’s not really a survival amulet anymore. You can have a thief +1 and down you before you even know it’s there for a lot of players, you can even see it on a lot of streams.

Thief is OP within its role, there’s nothing that can catch it and it takes a dump on quite a lot of classes that can compete in the role.

Now I’m sure someone will bring up ele being OP in PvP, it is within its role. Someone will probably mention about D/D ele not being meta in the example but it’s the best roaming build it has with cele, crusader, commander and marauder mix. The point is a lot of classes are far too strong in their roles but this is very noticeable with thief at the moment.

If you tool 10k each on an ele then, kitten them 2 must of been very glassy and built just to do that (assuming you are the avg semi tanky ele 2600 armor and above) I very rarly get that hard on my thief. It’s fine for 2 gun flame warriors to do the same thing? Or 2 mesmers ect ect. Actually I have been 1 shotted by a single mesmer.

Anyway back on topic. Yes anyone class that gets focused by at least 2 people should fall fast if they have no defences up, the fact is though thief dosnt have any of them to take take in the first place, I mean ok sure they could go and trait for acro. Weakness alone shuts down thief endurance which is their main defensive point, right? Weakness dosnt stop other people’s defences at all.

Not gonna deny locking a thief down, but tbh they could run before hot anyway, it’s just a lot easier now with dash.

The point wasn’t that you die to 2 people the problem is it can be done from stealth from a long distance away and that there’s no indication you’re going to take that 10k bs. This is in some ways and reasons why people are taking passive proc traits like an invuln or damage reduction on first hit. We’d be having the same discussion about power shatter mesmer if it was anywhere near reasonable but like many other classes thief shuts it out almost completely taking a giant dump on it.

You will see 2 gunflame warriors coming, you will see most other classes coming, you don’t see thieves and mesmers coming. Weakness works just as well on other classes, thief doesn’t suddenly lose a dodge because they have weakness nor is their regen affected too much unless you have vigor/acro as they have traits that give a flat amount of endurance back. That’s without mentioning there’s not many classes that have easy access to weakness with only necro and druid being the ones I mostly see. Poison shuts down war regen and healing, chill completely screws over ele to a far bigger extent than weakness on thief but you don’t see them bringing it up all the time.

Edit: just so someone else doesn’t read this and misquote, read what I put before, I put thief is OP within its role not that it is OP as a whole. This is me explaining thief is in some part the cause of people taking these passive traits.

Mesmer meta has not access to stealth and mesmer stealth’s access is not as good as thief ones …

PierPiero.9142:

apharma.3741:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

apharma.3741:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Well what other defence does a thief have apart from its mobilty? Everyone knows if they stand still for a second vs a compitent player they will take a huge dent. It’s alright for you lot to hide behind passive anti cc raits/passive dmg midigation/invuls/blocks but when a thief is forced of a point or a fight the only thing they have is to port away, that’s a big no no.

See its funny you mention this, was roaming earlier today on my D/D ele and 2 thieves jumped me from stealth, 10k BS each, instant down. Had I had an auto cast immunity or passive damage reduction (fire, water arcana) then I’d be fine but the 1st hit took me below 50% and the 2nd hit killed me before anything could proc.

What’s the point of this story about an unrelated game mode? Well it’s that these traits are being taken in some way because you can be 100-0 by a stealth attack from 2 classes even in PvP where there’s not really a survival amulet anymore. You can have a thief +1 and down you before you even know it’s there for a lot of players, you can even see it on a lot of streams.

Thief is OP within its role, there’s nothing that can catch it and it takes a dump on quite a lot of classes that can compete in the role.

Now I’m sure someone will bring up ele being OP in PvP, it is within its role. Someone will probably mention about D/D ele not being meta in the example but it’s the best roaming build it has with cele, crusader, commander and marauder mix. The point is a lot of classes are far too strong in their roles but this is very noticeable with thief at the moment.

If you tool 10k each on an ele then, kitten them 2 must of been very glassy and built just to do that (assuming you are the avg semi tanky ele 2600 armor and above) I very rarly get that hard on my thief. It’s fine for 2 gun flame warriors to do the same thing? Or 2 mesmers ect ect. Actually I have been 1 shotted by a single mesmer.

Anyway back on topic. Yes anyone class that gets focused by at least 2 people should fall fast if they have no defences up, the fact is though thief dosnt have any of them to take take in the first place, I mean ok sure they could go and trait for acro. Weakness alone shuts down thief endurance which is their main defensive point, right? Weakness dosnt stop other people’s defences at all.

Not gonna deny locking a thief down, but tbh they could run before hot anyway, it’s just a lot easier now with dash.

The point wasn’t that you die to 2 people the problem is it can be done from stealth from a long distance away and that there’s no indication you’re going to take that 10k bs. This is in some ways and reasons why people are taking passive proc traits like an invuln or damage reduction on first hit. We’d be having the same discussion about power shatter mesmer if it was anywhere near reasonable but like many other classes thief shuts it out almost completely taking a giant dump on it.

You will see 2 gunflame warriors coming, you will see most other classes coming, you don’t see thieves and mesmers coming. Weakness works just as well on other classes, thief doesn’t suddenly lose a dodge because they have weakness nor is their regen affected too much unless you have vigor/acro as they have traits that give a flat amount of endurance back. That’s without mentioning there’s not many classes that have easy access to weakness with only necro and druid being the ones I mostly see. Poison shuts down war regen and healing, chill completely screws over ele to a far bigger extent than weakness on thief but you don’t see them bringing it up all the time.

Edit: just so someone else doesn’t read this and misquote, read what I put before, I put thief is OP within its role not that it is OP as a whole. This is me explaining thief is in some part the cause of people taking these passive traits.

Mesmer meta has not access to stealth and mesmer stealth’s access is not as good as thief ones …

I was talking about power shatter if it was good not current meta mesmer as power shatter is what competes with thief in its role but is shut down hard by thief atm. Bolded the part that’s relevant.

Ragnarox.9601:

Luclinraider.2317:

OP is either trolling, joking or just new to PvP.

Thief is in fact one of the least forgiving, and most underpowered classes currently in the game.

One wrong move or one missed dodge means your dead…and with the worst downed state in the game…..(arguably tied with Mes)….once you’re down, you’re dead.

Yes thief is mobile….but they are made that way because they are also made to literally not be able to 1v1 any other well played class.

Back in the day Thief backstabs were hitting for 12-14K…not you’re lucky if you break 8k unless you have a power machine buffing you.

The simple fact is….thief is arguably the weakest class 1v1 AND in group. Their saving grace is their mobility for decapping points. In other words, in solely TDM bg’s like we used to have….having a Thief on your team meant you lost.

Thief is not OP but daredevil is. Try to catch him in wvw, hes immune to condies movement imparing effects etc. Backstabs still hits for 10k and Vaults for 9k.

DD Thief is hardly “immune to conditions”. I kill them all the time using Conditions. My own DD thief will die to conditions. If you want something immune to conditions look to a boon warrior running resistance. Resistance is condition immunity. Dodging in order to get an evade to cleanse is not.

They are also not “immune to movement impairing effects”. They can break them and cleanse them more readily then most but this hardly immunity and comes at a cost. As example if I want UC , I give up the damage potential of Bound.

As to being uncatchable, yes there is that as by design they are the most flee of foot class. If Usain Bolt is on a field with Mike Tyson , Lebron James and Bruce Lee and his goal is to get away from the others , then he will generally do so because he is faster. If he decides to slug it out with Mike Tyson then chances are he is going to get his clock cleaned. If the goal is to shoot a ball into a basket several feet above ones head, then Lebron James likely the best at it.

As to the backstabs and vaults, these all come at the cost of Initiative. While they can do a few of these in a row if an opponent able to avoid those given attacks via their own blocks and dodges and Invulns and other means , the thief is then vulnerable and his ability to do all of those other things is compromised. Countering a thief is very much about understanding how their various skills work and how one can take advantage of that initiative pool. When a thief fights a thief it very much about manuevering the other thief into expending intitiave for little or no return while maximizing your own. Other classes are fully able to use their own skills to get said theif to waste initiative. Just because a theif has more dodges, it hardly means a ranger can not dodge.. That if one of those other classes does this only to see that thief get away , it just the nature of having to combat the most mobile class in the game. If theif suddenly removed from the game then another class would be “the fastest” and able to get away if things not going their way.

Luclinraider.2317:

OP is either trolling, joking or just new to PvP.

Thief is in fact one of the least forgiving, and most underpowered classes currently in the game.

lol

i have bunch of games on thief and staying alive as thief is 5000 times easier than it is with almost any other class

DH / Warrior can have it very hard if focused by multiple people once their CD’s are down, what does a thief do? simple, just teleport away and survive

thief is unforgiving? lmao, thats why they have 0 sec cd unblockable teleport and also their steal always takes stability first. So unforgivable ! Someone is about to outplay you by anticipating ur backstab and using stability? not today
someone uses a slow to catch u? lol.

someone uses a stun on u? as if that matters

unforgivable .. right..

incisorr.9502:

Luclinraider.2317:

OP is either trolling, joking or just new to PvP.

Thief is in fact one of the least forgiving, and most underpowered classes currently in the game.

lol

i have bunch of games on thief and staying alive as thief is 5000 times easier than it is with almost any other class

DH / Warrior can have it very hard if focused by multiple people once their CD’s are down, what does a thief do? simple, just teleport away and survive

thief is unforgiving? lmao, thats why they have 0 sec cd unblockable teleport and also their steal always takes stability first. So unforgivable ! Someone is about to outplay you by anticipating ur backstab and using stability? not today
someone uses a slow to catch u? lol.

someone uses a stun on u? as if that matters

unforgivable .. right..

Please post video of you playing thief because going by this accounts post history you do not play thief.

0 second cool down unblockable teleport. Lol.

Obviously, a warrior with all cooldowns expired and focused by multiple people will die. A thief focused by multiple people will die too if critical survival skills are on cooldown. That’s not thief, that’s the game.

1v1 thief is neigh unkillable, because of mobility. This is fine. They don’t bully bruisers off a capture point 1v1 assuming there isn’t a noticeable difference in skill.

The most common reason I’ve seen people have always complained about thief from day 1 is skill disparity combined with mobility. It lets thieves snowball when this exists.

Assuming there isn’t a large skill disparity between players the thief is tame, because they are weak in team fights and struggle to make plays when teams have solid rotations between points

saerni.2584:

What is an iFrame?

I think the op is taking thief for a web browser…..

https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_iframe.asp

I am at a hotel in the outback of Nuremberg right now due to a workshop, lying in bed and reading this thread was a very funny lecture that entertained me with all the stuff that makes a good video game rage/rant thread: Exaggeration, absolutely useless arguments on both sides, unrealistic scenarios that lack any proof, hyperbole, random Youtube videos, “salt”. I hope you can add more of this fancy stuff and fairytales for the next evening to lighten up my last days away from home.

Excelsior.