Guild Wars 2

It’s just so entertaining use sic em against thief. That panic is hilarious when you take easy mode away.

Nikaido.3457:

The problem is the trolling with troll builds. Thieves can be built in such a way in wvwvw that they can pretty much harass you across the whole map and there is nothing you can do about it. They won’t kill you because they’re bad and the troll builds made to be highly resilient can’t kill anything but every time they see they’re losing against you they can just disengage into getting out of combat, wait for all their cd, initiative etc and then come back and harass again, and again, and again.

You must be a guardian or warrior in a bunker build. Me, I play thief bait, a mesmer, and those “troll builds” can burst me in literally two seconds flat, even in my most defensive builds.

What makes thieves overpowered is the sustainability the stealth mechanic allows them. It is unparalleled. A thief can easily survive the burst of every other profession with one click into stealth, then turn around for their own burst, then have two more in the same time it takes for everyone else to go off CD.

Balance is not based on 1v1 though. The game is not balanced around solo thief to mesmer combat. Making a friend with a ranger, or engi ever with reveal makes more sense to me then arguing about how a thief matches against your skill on a 1v1 fighr.

I’m gonna assume people here are complaining about Thieves who add-on into an ongoing fight between two other people. Because unless it’s a P/D Thief, we’re still the lowest on the totem pole in terms of 1v1 combat. The only exception being we counter Mesmers.

Apparently its ok to have equal chance of winning against every profession EXCEPT thief…
But its not ok as a Thief to be OP towards mesmers, yet underpowered to every other profession.

Thothkepara.2539:

You must be a guardian or warrior in a bunker build. Me, I play thief bait, a mesmer, and those “troll builds” can burst me in literally two seconds flat, even in my most defensive builds.

What makes thieves overpowered is the sustainability the stealth mechanic allows them. It is unparalleled. A thief can easily survive the burst of every other profession with one click into stealth, then turn around for their own burst, then have two more in the same time it takes for everyone else to go off CD.

I almost solely play engineer on a great variety of builds (I’ve pretty much done all possible variations depending on my mood, from condi to glass canon SD burst to soldier/melandru set for zerguing). On the occasion that I do die, it’s because I was outplayed, not because they had a build that was OP against mine. If a thief kills me, I’d say job well done, and I’d be happier to see that than the great variety of troll thiefs who go in and out without ever truly bothering to fight.
I can understand your frustration because you main mesmer, but all builds/classes have something that shut them down well. For mesmers, since they kinda get shut down without a target, stealth is obviously a problem, but that also means that PU mesmers would give you just as much pain as a thief would if you don’t run PU yourself.

As for guardians, they don’t need to run bunker builds to fight well against thieves either. Mediguards burst builds are strong against most thieves builds, although it might possibly be a problem against P/D, but not because they’re thieves, it’s because the build is weak against condition.

Also, if we’re talking about personal distaste for a particular type of opponent, I’d rather fight a billion thieves than PU condi mesmers. I usually just don’t bother and get out of their range. Being that most of my abilities will trigger AoE that will kill their clones (and trigger all that nastiness and constant cripple), and them being difficult to directly target and their sustain able to deal with the few single target things I can do, it’s almost never worth the bother, just outrun them.

Wow! I haven’t seen thief complaints in so long! I’m just happy there are new players in the game.

@OP:

Soon you will realize there are much better roaming classes in the game.

In my opinion the close to being balanced way of implementing stealth was how warhammer online accomplish by:

1. 30s CD of 2s of uninterruptable cast time to enter stealth and stays in stealth and deplete initiative over time unless player cancel stealth or ran out of initiative.

2. For the out of stealth moment, the thief should be given a skill to disarm the enemies for 3 to 5 seconds just before the attack connects. Off course this disarm skill should be given a short CD as well

3. A new uncleansable condition opener that works like torment on the target so target can see they have been “opened” on but gets to decide to fight without moving as much as possible or take the damage if they move or run too much.

The only problem I have with thief is the number of options they get to reset a fight with Shadow Refuge. The general advice is to aoe the stealth ring but a seasoned thief knows to save a dodge or 2 while inside the stealth ring or they fake a refuge stealth and shadowstep somewhere else and it gets worse if the thief is equipped with their stealth utility or being d/p.

DarkSyze.8627:

Sorel.4870:

l2p

Always L2p for other class? except for thief class

play a guardian or engi?

A well played Guardian is a hardcounter to thieves

Really tired of thieves’ stealth mechanic, too. They’re far, far too overpowered in WvW. Time to tone down this ridiculous design.

This again?

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers. Even then a dble ranged shatter mesmer can win if he’s not taken by surprise

Please, the ones who use stealth are the easiest to fight. The evade spamming thieves are the real nuisances.

“Oh, look at me! I’m not using stealth so I must be a good player! Watch as I hit you while evading at the same time! Now I’ll jump dodge around randomly to make it look like I know what I’m doing!”

It’s a l2p issue.

You can counter any stealth other than blinding powder (without “Sic ’Em”)

C&D→dodge
SR→knockback
bp/hs→daze/knockback (eng shield 4 will even reflect the blinding shot for ya then cc on the 2nd press)

When a thief stealths they are risking their ini or need to blow a significantly long cooldown to do so.

You can still channel attacks on a thief that’s stealthing.

Cleave will still hit a thief.

AoE will still hit a thief.

There are ways of moving to make positional attacks such as backstab much harder to land.

As others have said thief isn’t even the best at 1v1. It’s just a matter of understanding your opponent and a little bit of practice.

Heatsink.5794:

Really tired of thieves’ stealth mechanic, too. They’re far, far too overpowered in WvW. Time to tone down this ridiculous design.

But if I am not having any problem taking them out, does that deem them under powered?

mako.2431:

No class should be able to attack, stealth when you attack them back, heal and clease while stealthed, then come out of steath and reattack you, rinse, repeat until you are dead.

I have no problem with thieves having escapability, none at all. My problem is in and out of stealth fighting bullspit. Enough, peroid. I don’t know of any other game that allows such crap. They should hit like a truck, they should be able to sneak around, they should be able to poof and escape AFTER their kill or to get out of a tough fight….but they should not be able to repeatedly re-stealth in the middle of a fight to heal and cleanse over and over, it is absolutely absurd.

/rant off….let the flaming begin

While I completely agree with all that, it’s better to just save yourself all that hassle of typing it out ‘n stuff, pretty much a waste of time. Feedback on the horrible design of the Thief in GW2 has been a thing on these boards, especially the WvW section, for many a time but ANet just doesn’t give a single kitten. Everbody knows a class being able to repeatedly reset a fight by stealthing out at will in a game that features no counterplay to stealth (I do not consider swinging my weapons at air where I assume or guess an enemy to be valid counterplay) is literally breaking said game, but since stealth isn’t much of a problem in sPvP as it prevents you from capping/contesting, ANet doesn’t feel the slightest of urges to fix it.

Our last hope on that matter really is HoT and the Stronghold gamemode; if that mode gets popular, and the stealth issues from WvW carry over to it, maybe then ANet will finally decide to get their act together and rework those stealth mechanics.

T raw.4658:

This again?

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers. Even then a dble ranged shatter mesmer can win if he’s not taken by surprise

T raw.4658:

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers.

T raw.4658:

Thieves are weak 1v1

……………… O.O ………

It’s not thief or stealth being overpowered… just learn the game and you’ll find killing thieves is really not hard at all.

When you go nuts and blow all your cooldowns after the first jump… then yeah you are pretty much done for, if you hold it off you have a better chance to kill the thief than he does of killing you.

I believe if you take the time to learn other classes you can pretty much 1v1 everything.

I, as a thief, can take down some Medi Guards… and loose to some Mesmers… Difference is that I took the time to really learn what counters me as those Mesmers probably did.

This thread: Old [whine] in new bottle.

See what I did there?

In any case, thieves are fine. In fact, thief profession deserves a (USEFUL) buff; the profession has been subsequently nerfed over a year’s span thanks to all the exaggerated QQ. Ridiculous.

Why did they move this here? The Nerf Wish List is made for that anyway l2gp.

Sagat.3285:

Why did they move this here? The Nerf Wish List is made for that anyway l2gp.

Well, he doesn’t particularly went anything nerfed.

He’s just venting. And to that, I say, we understand, there as been thousands of people like you coming here to vent. It’s okay, you will feel better after a good night’s sleep.

Torgrim.3642:

Sactual thinks they are skilled players when using that, It’s really sad and quite laughable.

I think it’s funny how many people in GW2 talk about peoples ‘skill’ and thinking their good.

I don’t play thief. If I did, I’ll play whatever build I D@ mn well please. I don’t care if its what people call aids, or cheese. Don’t like my build, counter me.

Do people think their good in WvW when they use a zerg to chase across the map? Or kill you with 5 people? They just want to kill you. They don’t pat themselves on the back.

When I kill someone, I don’t think I am good, or “I play a cheese build, I didn’t deserve that.” I just think “I killed that person, yay me.” You guys complicate kitten too much.

I don’t remember anyone, in any other mmo I’ve played (13yrs of mmos) not using a build because it was too strong.

Thothkepara.2539:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Thieves can’t 1 shot you from stealth. Mesmers can. I have a bigger problem with that.

I main a shatter Mes, I’m no pro but I can say without a doubt that only the most glassy, upleveled and new Ele, Thief or another Mes might be downed in what you call a “one shot.” To be precise we have to pop 3-4 CDs to do that with dead-on timing, not just one lazy button press like a Thief.

There is no comparison.

This is just insulting.

“One lazy button?” Seriously?

A thief with a real burst build not 1-shotting uplevels has to blow three to six cooldowns and their weapon swap to deal such damage. I know I personally go through eight button presses, all of my utilities, elite, class mechanic, weapon swapping, and half of my global resource pool before considering the reposition on CnD -> stab when using my proper stab damage build in what is normally under a second, while still needing to find the rear of the target and execute as necessary.

Am I the only one who simply does not give a flying kitten if someone runs SA or not? (As a non Full SA user)

Seriously, if people spent as much time learning to fight SA thieves as they did crying about it, this forum post would probably not be existent. Quite honestly I don’t really have a huge problem with SA thieves, unless they are D/P, (or p/d condi, but that’s a different story all together) then I just sit patiently, or simply walk away, as the fight will not end in any way.

Also, people don’t seem to realize that there is a fair tradeoff of damage and survivability when traiting for 6 in SA. And I think one of the big reasons people cry about it is because they just want a way to get their bags easier. They don’t want to think about what they’re doing, just faceroll their keyboard and press F then be on their merry way…

DeceiverX.8361:

Thothkepara.2539:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Thieves can’t 1 shot you from stealth. Mesmers can. I have a bigger problem with that.

I main a shatter Mes, I’m no pro but I can say without a doubt that only the most glassy, upleveled and new Ele, Thief or another Mes might be downed in what you call a “one shot.” To be precise we have to pop 3-4 CDs to do that with dead-on timing, not just one lazy button press like a Thief.

There is no comparison.

This is just insulting.

“One lazy button?” Seriously?

A thief with a real burst build not 1-shotting uplevels has to blow three to six cooldowns and their weapon swap to deal such damage. I know I personally go through eight button presses, all of my utilities, elite, class mechanic, weapon swapping, and half of my global resource pool before considering the reposition on CnD -> stab when using my proper stab damage build in what is normally under a second, while still needing to find the rear of the target and execute as necessary.

Oh shush. Our glorious autoattack is enough to take down anything. It’s a wonder we even get dodges because we just press our button and the burst happens and the person dies, so there’s no need to dodge what’s already dead. We’re just all playing thief wrong, obviously.

Dhemize.8649:

T raw.4658:

This again?

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers. Even then a dble ranged shatter mesmer can win if he’s not taken by surprise

T raw.4658:

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers.

T raw.4658:

Thieves are weak 1v1

……………… O.O ………

I pretty much had the same WTF reaction…

There are just a few core reasons you see many people complain about Thief:

• Guild Wars 2 suffers from “build wars”. Thief has some very specific things that counter them that aren’t that common. For example: most builds don’t have a sufficient combination of lockdown+damage to kill a thief before he resumes his string of evasions and stealth.

• Thief is excellent at picking their fights. Between their amazing mobility and stealth, if they run into a hard-counter, they can often just avoid it. Inversely, the builds that a Thief hard counters don’t have the same luxury because they are hard-countered by such a mobile class.

• Guild Wars 2’s action combat suffers from several high-impact abilities that have no telegraph. Thief isn’t the only class guilty of having such abilities, but they do have plenty of them such as Steal, Backstab, etc.. A lack of telegraphs reduces counterplay to “guess”, “run”, or “pray” as far as mitigating the ability. If there was so much as an audio telegraph 0.5 before it hits, that would be sufficient in my mind.

• The initiative system largely synergizes with a Thief’s mobility and stealth to allow them to reset a fight. Few things are more annoying than soundly “beating” a bad thief multiple times, but him narrowly escaping being finished, resetting, and coming back again and again for the same beating. You want him to just go away and fight someone he can kill … but he doesn’t. Eventually he finally wears you down or gets you while you’re fighting someone else. Your class and build largely dictates how well/poorly you can deal with this … bringing us back to the first point of “build wars”.

I just power leveled a Thief 1-80 under a few minutes this week to get a better idea how this profession works in WvW.

It’s a pretty easy profession to play well, and won almost every encounter I came across except a really good mesmer that had me running…I ran, healed, and came back for the kill. The mesmer would have had me, cd’s won that fight is all.

I played as a d/p-d/d, and d/p-sb build (0,6,6,2,0 zerk/valk), unless my target was built for support it was a pretty easy mark. Support just used gap closers and boons to run away past my cd’s. The Thief has so many good offensive power, utility, and escape in these traits makes me jelly.

With that said I wish my main (Ranger) had half of this survivability as a non zerg play profession outside of some tank cond build. I wouldn’t complain if Sic’em got changed to a AOE flare that reveals like the WoW Hunter got to help counter.

Wetpaw.3487:

I just power leveled a Thief 1-80 under a few minutes this week to get a better idea how this profession works in WvW.

It’s a pretty easy profession to play well, and won almost every encounter I came across except a really good mesmer that had me running…I ran, healed, and came back for the kill. The mesmer would have had me, cd’s won that fight is all.

I played as a d/p-d/d, and d/p-sb build (0,6,6,2,0 zerk/valk), unless my target was built for support it was a pretty easy mark. Support just used gap closers and boons to run away past my cd’s. The Thief has so many good offensive power, utility, and escape in these traits makes me jelly.

With that said I wish my main (Ranger) had half of this survivability as a non zerg play profession outside of some tank cond build. I wouldn’t complain if Sic’em got changed to a AOE flare that reveals like the WoW Hunter got to help counter.

You’re getting these results by investing 6 points in Shadow Arts.

Try playing with zero points invested and see how it goes; your results will be the exact opposite.

The most powerful traits the thief has access to are located within the SA line. The sad fact is that most of these traits are just covering deficiencies within the class itself (and are inherently overly-strong to make their investment feel worthwhile/not overpowered). That said, these traits themselves are just blatantly overpowered and give the class more than what most other classes can get access to. The dependency on SA to make the class largely functional, however, inhibits a lot of potential nerfs but subsequently inhibits buffs to the class overall because then any build speccing into SA would just be an unstoppable monster (and it’s already pretty close in WvW).

With sPvP, SA is pointless because you can’t cap points in stealth and the damage ratios are toned too heavily down and defenses too high to quickly +1 and end fights. Resetting also means very little when your opponent can force you off point/cap while your score dwindles and you’re left off trying to repeatedly reset. Might as well just play any other class and stand fighting or not build SA and +1 faster.

Much like my opinions on Fire/Air sigils dealing disproportionately high amounts of damage relative to the complaints about burst/berserker specs and not berserker builds dealing too much damage by design, I believe the complaints or comments about the thief being overpowered or having too much utility/reset potential is not with the class itself but a cheesy optional mechanic; Shadow Arts.

Ok, we have 2 “meta” builds in WvW:

• d/p zerker
• p/d dire

Both builds don’t deal that much damage and the zerker one obviously has a very low health pool (about 12,000)

Now let us look at what they gain from 6 points in SA:

• 323 hp / sec in stealth
• remove 1 condition every 3 seconds in stealth
• 2 initiative when entering stealth
• 2x 15s might when entering stealth

Try to compare it to a celestial ele and you’ll see that thief is nothing compared to it.

elementalist gets like:

• perma regeneration (230 hp / sec)
• more heal
• perma protection
• 10 might stacks
• tons of condition removals

guardians can heal like 2000 for each meditation they use.

I dont see how ppl are saying thieves come back with 100% health after stealthing …
The amount of time they would need to heal 100% of their health would be more then enough to heal to 100% on any other non glass cannon meta build.
You are not dazed or stunned while the thief is invisible …

Wetpaw.3487:

I just power leveled a Thief 1-80 under a few minutes this week to get a better idea how this profession works in WvW.

It’s a pretty easy profession to play well, and won almost every encounter I came across except a really good mesmer that had me running…I ran, healed, and came back for the kill. The mesmer would have had me, cd’s won that fight is all.

I played as a d/p-d/d, and d/p-sb build (0,6,6,2,0 zerk/valk), unless my target was built for support it was a pretty easy mark. Support just used gap closers and boons to run away past my cd’s. The Thief has so many good offensive power, utility, and escape in these traits makes me jelly.

With that said I wish my main (Ranger) had half of this survivability as a non zerg play profession outside of some tank cond build. I wouldn’t complain if Sic’em got changed to a AOE flare that reveals like the WoW Hunter got to help counter.

I just made a ranger and leveled him in 1 day too. I won all my encounters with ease and only died to zergs.

I didn’t even need to think about what i was doing while winning either

crouze.3078:

Now let us look at what they gain from 6 points in SA:

• 323 hp / sec in stealth
• remove 1 condition every 3 seconds in stealth
• 2 initiative when entering stealth
• 2x 15s might when entering stealth

Try to compare it to a celestial ele and you’ll see that thief is nothing compared to it.

elementalist gets like:

• perma regeneration (230 hp / sec)
• more heal
• perma protection
• 10 might stacks
• tons of condition removals

Maybe it’s just me, but that sounds a bit silly, huh? You list the things a Thief gets from just speccing into SA, and compare that to what an Elementalist gets from his ENTIRE BUILD (multiple traitlines, sigils, runes & utility skills)? Loving the Thief forums, lol. You guys always find a way to twist things around, don’t ya?

(ironically, just like ingame I might add; losing a fight badly? oh np, I’ll just press that button and it’s k – that’s a nice twist as well, heh)

makku.2508:

crouze.3078:

Now let us look at what they gain from 6 points in SA:

• 323 hp / sec in stealth
• remove 1 condition every 3 seconds in stealth
• 2 initiative when entering stealth
• 2x 15s might when entering stealth

Try to compare it to a celestial ele and you’ll see that thief is nothing compared to it.

elementalist gets like:

• perma regeneration (230 hp / sec)
• more heal
• perma protection
• 10 might stacks
• tons of condition removals

Maybe it’s just me, but that sounds a bit silly, huh? You list the things a Thief gets from just speccing into SA, and compare that to what an Elementalist gets from his ENTIRE BUILD (multiple traitlines, sigils, runes & utility skills)? Loving the Thief forums, lol. You guys always find a way to twist things around, don’t ya?

(ironically, just like ingame I might add; losing a fight badly? oh np, I’ll just press that button and it’s k – that’s a nice twist as well, heh)

True. And let’s not forget that stealth in itself is a pretty big deal that is kinda completely left aside in the comparison. Going 6 in SA also mean 1 more sec of stealth each time.

T raw.4658:

Wetpaw.3487:

I just power leveled a Thief 1-80 under a few minutes this week to get a better idea how this profession works in WvW.

It’s a pretty easy profession to play well, and won almost every encounter I came across except a really good mesmer that had me running…I ran, healed, and came back for the kill. The mesmer would have had me, cd’s won that fight is all.

I played as a d/p-d/d, and d/p-sb build (0,6,6,2,0 zerk/valk), unless my target was built for support it was a pretty easy mark. Support just used gap closers and boons to run away past my cd’s. The Thief has so many good offensive power, utility, and escape in these traits makes me jelly.

With that said I wish my main (Ranger) had half of this survivability as a non zerg play profession outside of some tank cond build. I wouldn’t complain if Sic’em got changed to a AOE flare that reveals like the WoW Hunter got to help counter.

I just made a ranger and leveled him in 1 day too. I won all my encounters with ease and only died to zergs.

I didn’t even need to think about what i was doing while winning either

OMG. I had the same experience with a ranger. I think we should go on the PvP forums and post about this imbalance and how OP rangers are.

Clownmug.8357:

Please, the ones who use stealth are the easiest to fight. The evade spamming thieves are the real nuisances.

“Oh, look at me! I’m not using stealth so I must be a good player! Watch as I hit you while evading at the same time! Now I’ll jump dodge around randomly to make it look like I know what I’m doing!”

They obviously know what they’re doing in order to have killed you enough times for you to get angry and post about them. Or maybe you should ask yourself why you got killed by someone you think isn’t a good player or doesn’t know what they’re doing?

blakdoxa.7520:

Stealth is one of the thief’s active defenses. If you remove stealth it would cripple the class’ build variety.

The build variety... Well, at least we have several for PvP.

D/P Panic Strike 6-0-2-0-6
D/P Critical Strikes 2-6-0-0-6
S/D Evasion 2-0-0-6-6

Does that count as 2 or 3?

Does the OP want us to play double shortbow 0-0-0-0-0?
Wow. That letter combo tripped the censor. Ha.

T raw.4658:

This again?

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers. Even then a dble ranged shatter mesmer can win if he’s not taken by surprise

It’s not the thieves being weak 1v1. It’s you, if you really believe what you’re wrting here.

Maybe one day a net will realize why they changed reveal to last 4 sec in spvp and apply it into wvw.

mirrorcle.5709:

Maybe one day a net will realize why they changed reveal to last 4 sec in spvp and apply it into wvw.

They did and it killed the thief class, so they reverted it in WvW and PvE a week later. It’s one of the few reverts they’ve ever done.

QQ’ing is getting old.

@Maugetarr:
I’m not saying it didn’t “kill the thief class”, but could you please explain “why” or “how” it “killed the thief class”. Simply saying it did that doesn’t give us much we can discuss.

Sebrent.3625:

@Maugetarr:
I’m not saying it didn’t “kill the thief class”, but could you please explain “why” or “how” it “killed the thief class”. Simply saying it did that doesn’t give us much we can discuss.

Without direct numbers to see the dropoff, I guess it’s a bit of speculation, but anecdotally, I saw far fewer thieves and they reverted the change very quickly. The only other time I remember them reverting a change is to some of ele’s skills and that took quite a long time to change back. I think it’s safe to say that when they implemented the changes, they saw a significant enough statistical change that it warranted quick reversal, so, while “killed the class” might be somewhat of a hyperbole, it aptly describes why they would take such an immediate step backward.

gebrechen.5643:

T raw.4658:

This again?

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers. Even then a dble ranged shatter mesmer can win if he’s not taken by surprise

It’s not the thieves being weak 1v1. It’s you, if you really believe what you’re wrting here.

Slinging personal insults due to your own ignorance is bad form. You could always pm me and we can settle it.

Just get to play other professions, jesus… Just a learning process. Personally I created necro, cause I was always dieing to it with my main thief. And you know what I learned? Either skilled necro kills you, or you better not bother fighting it.

Preface: Stealth is no thief mechanic, only a mechanic that thieves can use much.

The main problem with the stealth mechanic is that it can be used too many times consecutively. This give others too less time to attack the thief (or mesmer) and make it nearly impossible for them to use their deffense skills or deal enough dmg before they stealth again.

That problem exist since 3 years now and also if stealth (and the classes) were originally and mainly designed for PvE, it doesn’t work for every other aspect of the game and I see it as neccessary that the time of Revealed must be set higher to fix that.
(At least by 5 secs. and at best also of stealth to compensate it)

But not only other classes have problems with stealth, I think it’s also the reason why thieves becoming weaker and weaker.
Stealth is overpowered since the beta and if a class like the thief or the mesmer have so much access to it, then it doesn’t wonder me why the people think these classes are OP, and, because Anet seems to think that too, they get no real development.

duck crick.8164:

my opinion would be that while stealthed, you should still be able to see your numbers if you hit them. That way that even while stealthed you have a chance to still harrass them. And they have to use more skill about where their positioning is while stealthed.

Better yet, stealth detection skills with fair durations and cooldowns. Doesn’t allow you to target, but still allows you to hit with swings and AoE.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Thieves can’t 1 shot you from stealth. Mesmers can. I have a bigger problem with that.

Tell us more about this Mesmer one shot from stealth.

MightyMicah.7451:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Thieves can’t 1 shot you from stealth. Mesmers can. I have a bigger problem with that.

Tell us more about this Mesmer one shot from stealth.

Mirror Blade + Dodge + Shatter + Mind Stab is the combo. It’s 7 hits packed into less than a 1/2 second time frame mind Stab hits a quarter second after. Each hit will crit for around 2k on squishy targets. You’ll usually see this combo hit for around 10k, but if everything crits it can deal 15k+ to squishy targets. Might stacks on the Mesmer will vary and cause some damage variance as well. Vulnerability will vary on the target as well and cause damage variance.

If they would give my Mesmer back his access to Protection on Chaos Armor and Illusionary Membrane, I’d happily hand over stealth.

Sadly, I’m not sure what could be done for Thief to compensate. You already have very solid burst damage and several evades … upping either would probably get real dumb real quick. Perhaps more mobility? A larger range on Infiltrator’s Strike (from 600 to 900)? THough that only answers the question for a Sword build … what about Dagger in MH ?

./shrug … maybe the specializations will provide more options.

I’d love to see Thief moving towards more counterplay and less stealth … same with my Mesmer. I think it’d help both with scaling in large fights as well. Evasions scale better with large amounts of cleave than stealth … those who have an unlucky cleave down them in stealth know what I’m talking about :-p That doesn’t happen when you’re dodging/evading/blocking/distortion/etc. … though it might get you after ;-)

I’ll try to post this image on each page, from here on.

Stop beating that sleeping horse, you monster! :-p

Wvw is really the only place where it is a problem (big surprise) . Being able to perma stealth by hitting walls and gates is stupidly broken and the biggest cheese in the game. then you have perplexity cheese builds that let a rune do all the work for them. in an open and fair duel though I think the reason a lot of people have problems dealing with stealth (those issues I listed aside) is they don’t understand how the skills work. once I made a thief and played it a lot of my struggles facing them disappeared .