Guild Wars 2

BD’s “10% more dmg” would be better utilized by the high mobility d/p style thief who travels fast around the map to find +1 fights, deal burst dmg, take opponent down fast and then get moving again.

UC’s “10% dmg reduction” seems more beneficial to the “brawler” acro-staff type thief who can stay and contest a point sometimes even in a 1vs2 situation.

Would you prefer to see these two buffs getting switched ?

iF UC gets the 10 dmg boost, no one will use BD.
The added effects are fine as they are.

Yea there’d be almost no reason to run bound except for maybe acro staff (and that’s even debatable) and some non-dagger OH pistol kits, and even then, for the extra damage and immob denial they’d probably just take UC since it also lets them kite better on P/P and gets S/P better disengages and mobility.

Don’t nerf the only viable S/D build I’ve been able to come up with, plz. 10% damage with Bound helps me hit hard. Unhindered Combatant is pretty terrible with S/D.

The terror and brokenness of Bound is only held in check because of the mobility that Dash gives.

In most fights Bound far out performs Dash it’s not even funny. You don’t see it as often because of the need for a thief to get from A to B as fast as possible.

If you remove or lessen that single ability from Dash then Bound wI’ll become the norm. Bound will be nerfed faster than you can type the rebuttal of why it’s balanced.

Bound is a damage multiplier… players wondering how they got clocked by a big hit need look no further than a player stacking up these percentages.

Straegen.2938:

Bound is a damage multiplier… players wondering how they got clocked by a big hit need look no further than a player stacking up these percentages.

This isn’t really a problem in sPvP though.

Bound is meant to be used offensively… that’s why it has a damage buff and does damage.
Dash is to be used defensibly.. so… you should get the point.

Only thing missing outa these is Dash needs a projectile finisher to make it more unique and match the other 2.

If you add finisher to Dash every thief and their mom will run it forever and DD traitline will be even more cemented into every single build.

a lot of things should be changed across all the classes. these dodges are no exception. Mindless broken stuff should be removed from them ie: dash clensing immob and bound being leap finisher. The condi dodge is prty kitteng strong for both condi and power but it doesnt lack counterplay that hard as the other 2.

martin.1653:

If you add finisher to Dash every thief and their mom will run it forever and DD traitline will be even more cemented into every single build.

I don’t think you understand there are other game modes. Bound is basically must have in raids.

martin.1653:

If you add finisher to Dash every thief and their mom will run it forever and DD traitline will be even more cemented into every single build.

I said projectile finisher, which doesn’t give stealth or anything too crazy.
DD is already required though since they nerfed Shadow’s Embrace and Acrobatics just to slot DD in it’s place.

MadVisions.4529:

a lot of things should be changed across all the classes. these dodges are no exception. Mindless broken stuff should be removed from them ie: dash clensing immob and bound being leap finisher. The condi dodge is prty kitteng strong for both condi and power but it doesnt lack counterplay that hard as the other 2.

Removing leap finisher from Bound would eliminate stealth p/p builds, so no thank you. Actually think the three dodges are actually pretty well balanced, in that each fulfills it’s intended purpose as well as the others do their own. Dash is more or less defensive, so the damage reduction makes sense, and vice versa for Bound.

JonnyForgotten.4276:

MadVisions.4529:

a lot of things should be changed across all the classes. these dodges are no exception. Mindless broken stuff should be removed from them ie: dash clensing immob and bound being leap finisher. The condi dodge is prty kitteng strong for both condi and power but it doesnt lack counterplay that hard as the other 2.

Removing leap finisher from Bound would eliminate stealth p/p builds, so no thank you. Actually think the three dodges are actually pretty well balanced, in that each fulfills it’s intended purpose as well as the others do their own. Dash is more or less defensive, so the damage reduction makes sense, and vice versa for Bound.

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design

The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

Azukas.1426:

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design
The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Why is it bad design if you can’t interrupt stealth? Why should it be interruptible? Not everything needs a counterplay.

Azukas.1426:

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

Crippled thief is a dead thief.

Azukas.1426:

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design

The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

How is that a balance issue? You are completely right, stealth through dodge isn’t interruptable, but well, you used a dodge.

Bound basically encourages high risk / high reward gameplay, where you use your dodges aggressively rather than for defense. If you are not able to burst correctly (or it gets negated by blocks, evades, weakness and what not) you pretty much have no defenses left.

UC main selling point (apart from the obvious mobility boost) is the imob/cripple/chill cleanse. As of right now, every class is stacked with these soft CCs and not having to use – our very limited – cleanses like Shadow Step or SoA, is actually invaluable.
Just the thought of going up against an ancient-seed-Druid or any kind of reaper without UC gives me nausea.

BikeIsGone.8675:

Bound basically encourages high risk / high reward gameplay, where you use your dodges aggressively rather than for defense.

I’d agree with this if it were true. The thing is, Daredevil itself is so safe and provides so much endurance regeneration innately that it’s really not even much of a risk. It’d then also justify the third dodge if there just weren’t so many easy-obtained, low-cost ways to recover the endurance.

@Azukas, why are you now a champion of Bound? I recall us having a heated debate quite some time ago where you called me out for even suggesting anyone would ever use anything but Dash in any environment.

DeceiverX.8361:

BikeIsGone.8675:

Bound basically encourages high risk / high reward gameplay, where you use your dodges aggressively rather than for defense.

I’d agree with this if it were true. The thing is, Daredevil itself is so safe and provides so much endurance regeneration innately that it’s really not even much of a risk. It’d then also justify the third dodge if there just weren’t so many easy-obtained, low-cost ways to recover the endurance.

@Azukas, why are you now a champion of Bound? I recall us having a heated debate quite some time ago where you called me out for even suggesting anyone would ever use anything but Dash in any environment.

If a thief on my team is running Bound I know he’s gimping himself on doing his job. In general these players tend to be of lower skill due to the carry of uninterruptable stealth. They also tend to take 1v1’s instead of doing their job.

martin.1653:

Azukas.1426:

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design
The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Why is it bad design if you can’t interrupt stealth? Why should it be interruptible? Not everything needs a counterplay.

Azukas.1426:

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

Crippled thief is a dead thief.

It’s bad design because a good balanced PvP game has counter play. DP with HS through the field is balanced in my book due to it being highly telegraphed and interruptible. When bound is introduced not only does the combo become a guaranteed stealth, but its much faster than BP>HS after they removed the aftercast on BP ^^

If you are losing duels due to cripple then you need to practice more.

BikeIsGone.8675:

Azukas.1426:

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design

The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

How is that a balance issue? You are completely right, stealth through dodge isn’t interruptable, but well, you used a dodge.

You get 3 dodges with tons of ways to regain that endurance on top of weapon skills that dodge. Bound should lose its Leap Finisher TBH

Bound basically encourages high risk / high reward gameplay, where you use your dodges aggressively rather than for defense. If you are not able to burst correctly (or it gets negated by blocks, evades, weakness and what not) you pretty much have no defenses left.

No it does not. It in fact encourages lower risk higher reward due to the uninterruptible stealth, and the simple fact its an AoE damage skill that hits just as hard as Shadowshot

UC main selling point (apart from the obvious mobility boost) is the imob/cripple/chill cleanse. As of right now, every class is stacked with these soft CCs and not having to use – our very limited – cleanses like Shadow Step or SoA, is actually invaluable.
Just the thought of going up against an ancient-seed-Druid or any kind of reaper without UC gives me nausea.

The only thing I’d give UC a plus on is against Necros. Still you shouldn’t even have a problem vs them when using bound instead. The rest of the classes are much easier on thief when using bound over UC 1v1.

After reading the replies in your quote do me a favor and post the build you are using so I can further help you understand.

Azukas.1426:

martin.1653:

Azukas.1426:

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design
The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Why is it bad design if you can’t interrupt stealth? Why should it be interruptible? Not everything needs a counterplay.

Azukas.1426:

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

Crippled thief is a dead thief.

It’s bad design because a good balanced PvP game has counter play. DP with HS through the field is balanced in my book due to it being highly telegraphed and interruptible. When bound is introduced not only does the combo become a guaranteed stealth, but its much faster than BP>HS after they removed the aftercast on BP ^^

If you are losing duels due to cripple then you need to practice more.

So you’re saying that every skill/combo in this game needs counterplay? It already costs resources to perform this combo. Isn’t that enough? I don’t understand what exactly would be counterplay for some skills. You want it to be more telegraphed so you can interrupt? Then why not put telegraph on every skill in game so we can interrupt everything and everything has counterplay then.
Getting killed, stunned, lacking initiative or endurance before you can perform combo is counterplay. Remember you still need smoke field on the ground, and that is usually red flag for everyone and people generally know what follows after pistol 5.
I know counterplays are important for balance, but you can’t just slap some specific ‘counterplay’ on everything.

As for arranged duels, not that interested in them. They carry little value in this game. In sPvP/WvW Dash is almost every time superior. (if you refered exclusively to duels, then you’re probably right about bound).
edit: having to use shadowstep or some other condi clear for cripple or chill seems like a waste when you can just dodge away and clear that while still keeping condi clears for important stuffs.

martin.1653:

Azukas.1426:

martin.1653:

Azukas.1426:

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design
The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Why is it bad design if you can’t interrupt stealth? Why should it be interruptible? Not everything needs a counterplay.

Azukas.1426:

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

Crippled thief is a dead thief.

It’s bad design because a good balanced PvP game has counter play. DP with HS through the field is balanced in my book due to it being highly telegraphed and interruptible. When bound is introduced not only does the combo become a guaranteed stealth, but its much faster than BP>HS after they removed the aftercast on BP ^^

If you are losing duels due to cripple then you need to practice more.

So you’re saying that every skill/combo in this game needs counterplay? It already costs resources to perform this combo. Isn’t that enough? I don’t understand what exactly would be counterplay for some skills. You want it to be more telegraphed so you can interrupt? Then why not put telegraph on every skill in game so we can interrupt everything and everything has counterplay then.
Getting killed, stunned, lacking initiative or endurance before you can perform combo is counterplay. Remember you still need smoke field on the ground, and that is usually red flag for everyone and people generally know what follows after pistol 5.
I know counterplays are important for balance, but you can’t just slap some specific ‘counterplay’ on everything.

As for arranged duels, not that interested in them. They carry little value in this game. In sPvP/WvW Dash is almost every time superior. (if you refered exclusively to duels, then you’re probably right about bound).
edit: having to use shadowstep or some other condi clear for cripple or chill seems like a waste when you can just dodge away and clear that while still keeping condi clears for important stuffs.

Bound > Dash in fighting period. Dash is only used for the mobility. Thieves are very weak in even number fights so that ability to +1 on the map fast is why Dash is taken.

If you removed the ability for dash to get thief from A to B at such a significantly faster pace then you would see Bound being used exclusively.

I’m starting to think you are new to thief.

Azukas.1426:

Bound > Dash in fighting period. Dash is only used for the mobility. Thieves are very weak in even number fights so that ability to +1 on the map fast is why Dash is taken.

If you removed the ability for dash to get thief from A to B at such a significantly faster pace then you would see Bound being used exclusively.

I’m starting to think you are new to thief.

What kind of logic is this “If you removed the ability for dash to get thief from A to B at such a significantly faster pace” ? If you removed damage from Bound then nobody would take it. Makes no sense to even make comparison like that.
Also, if you’re to slow to be somewhere to +1 then you can’t really +1.
And as I mentioned in last post, 1v1 scenario bound is prolly better. But thief shouldn’t relly 1v1 in PvP match, so that’s why Dash is superior. (D/P is still most effective meta for thief afaik).

martin.1653:

Azukas.1426:

Bound > Dash in fighting period. Dash is only used for the mobility. Thieves are very weak in even number fights so that ability to +1 on the map fast is why Dash is taken.

If you removed the ability for dash to get thief from A to B at such a significantly faster pace then you would see Bound being used exclusively.

I’m starting to think you are new to thief.

What kind of logic is this “If you removed the ability for dash to get thief from A to B at such a significantly faster pace” ? If you removed damage from Bound then nobody would take it. Makes no sense to even make comparison like that.
Also, if you’re to slow to be somewhere to +1 then you can’t really +1.
And as I mentioned in last post, 1v1 scenario bound is prolly better. But thief shouldn’t relly 1v1 in PvP match, so that’s why Dash is superior. (D/P is still most effective meta for thief afaik).

Taking SB allows for the +1. Dash just gives you +1 on steroids and is why it’s taken.

Many on this forum advocate for nerfs to UC in terms of its mobility. What they fail to realize is the sleeping beast that is Bound.

Bound isn’t a sleeping beast. The majority of thief players, at least on NA, tried Bound first when HoT came out before moving on to other classes and D/P Dash builds in later patches. Most sPvP thief players know what it can and can’t do.

rennlc.7346:

Bound isn’t a sleeping beast. The majority of thief players, at least on NA, tried Bound first when HoT came out before moving on to other classes and D/P Dash builds in later patches. Most sPvP thief players know what it can and can’t do.

No they don’t.

Bound requires a bit of skill to master. UC is easy to use and one of the best traits in the game. This is why so many thieves choose UC over Bound.

Bound when combined with Acro, Staff and offhand Pistol allows a thief to +1 a fight better than shortbow variants and it moves horizontally about as well.