Guild Wars 2

zaxon.6819:

if you cant figure out how to kill someone without needing to chain stealths together it may be a learn to play issue. at the point where you are needing to hide 3x in a row you already lost and are trying to reset and get a second chance. sad to say you may get downed once or twice because you are forced to play instead of hide.

thieves have all the tools to win almost every 1v1 fight vs any profession even if they are able to see you for 3 seconds.

Idk what you’re talking about…

My guardian has SO many tools to easily deal with thieves. Heck, I pretend to run away like a noob and just watch most thieves nearly down themselves on my protection + retaliation then flip around and hit them twice and they are dead.

TBH… all of my classes have little problem killing a thief… they are very predictable and will be made even more so after this patch…

hmm. did you even watch the video? you know the one that this thread is based on.

there is no patch. they were theorycrafting ideas to try to balance classes and this is one of the ideas to stop thieves from perma stealthing. there has been no testing in any way of this idea and this would only come along side buffs that were mentioned in the same conversation. this nerf to stealth was a side note in a conversation based on buffing thieves skirmishing ability.

if a thief dies to retaliation or confusion it is not a problem with the class as much as it is an issue with the player.

this same conversation talked about giving thieves boon hate. the same conversation talked about buffing thieves to make them better at entering and exiting combat then the current elementalist is.

I except all change and look forward to anything that can raise skill caps.

Zaxon watch the video again. They talked about giving thieves alot if things as ideas in the future, but very specifically said the stealth change was already in the next patch

zaxon.6819:

they are not taking away stealth. stealth using thieves can still use stealth. they just cant chain it. if you are a thief that relys on stealth to do your damage this change will have 0 effect on you because when you do damage you will get the reveal buff anyway.

Not quite zero, you’ll not longer be able to use stealth to get within range before starting the fight (arrive there as stealth fades and open up with your combos etc)

For those using stealth as a defensive mechanism, your effectively locked out of using a defensive skill everytime you use one of them (considering thieves have limited defenses) no one else gets locked out of their defensive skills when they use one, the only way around this would to be to fire them all off more or less together to stack stealth, and again no one else has to burn all their defenses just to stop em getting locked from consecutive use.

Throw in the fact that a thief thats perma-stealthed is not a threat they are either retreating (thus technically defeated if not giving reward) or their hovering around you not doing anything and potentially taking damage.

So basically to fix 1 or 2 problems that mostly just affect new players they do a blanket nerf of an entire mechanic and then promise future buffs (which they have done before and never got around to it)

thief was not supposed to walk around stealth just incase they ran into someone. that has been stated since the start.. this is not wow if you want to hide until someone gets low and run up and ambush them there is still a game for that. it is used as a tool durring a fight … you chooose if it is better to use it offensive or defensive and then yes you will get the reveal buff, need to deal with the short time you can be seen before choosing what to do with your next stealth.

if you cant handle yourself for 3 seconds without dieing inbetween being stealthed then im not sure any amount of buffs can save you.

Dasorine.1964:

So basically to fix 1 or 2 problems that mostly just affect new players they do a blanket nerf of an entire mechanic and then promise future buffs (which they have done before and never got around to it)

Read in my mind much.

Diplomatic liars.

Sunflowers.1729:

Faeyd.5094:

Survivability on a thief is the stealth line. See the problem?

Yup, I see it. The problem is that even with no points in the stealth line, stealth is still incredibly easy to access.

That’s what you meant right?

What I meant is… the posters supposition that a thief now needs to ‘spec for defense’ is absurd as it is the defense that is being nerfed. It’s like saying ‘backstab is going to be nerfed so now thieves will have to spec backstab’.

zaxon.6819:

thief was not supposed to walk around stealth just incase they ran into someone. that has been stated since the start.. this is not wow if you want to hide until someone gets low and run up and ambush them there is still a game for that. it is used as a tool durring a fight … you chooose if it is better to use it offensive or defensive and then yes you will get the reveal buff, need to deal with the short time you can be seen before choosing what to do with your next stealth.

if you cant handle yourself for 3 seconds without dieing inbetween being stealthed then im not sure any amount of buffs can save you.

Its not walking around stealthed its seeing a group, stealthing up and heading in.

And for your other point then im sure you wont mind ALL professions having one of their core skills locked so they cannot chain em legitimately or otherwise

all other professions have cooldowns on thier core skills. thieves do not because they use initiative.

i have another idea… if an elementalist uses ride the lightning and they dont hit an enemy.. its instantly reset.

if a mesmer uses blurred strike and dont hit an enemy they can just repeat it over and over.

chaining stealth pretty much erases you from the game until you decide to go back in.. without very specific things like a vortex ability. even in other games with perma stealth the trade off is reveal on damage so you can fish for stealthers and they cant enter the center of a fight without alot of work. gw2 traded the damage reveal for not having perma stealth and that was stated from the start.

i play a thief and i dont have any issue with this. i hate gimic fights taht dont rely on any kind of skill. chaining stealth isnt out playing someone its failing to do your job and trying to reset it and go again.

learn to be more effective and if you fail….. you may have to eat the 3 seconds visible using evades or some other non stealth skill to handle it .. then you can crawl back in the womb of stealth where you feel safe and warm.

zaxon.6819:

all other professions have cooldowns on thier core skills. thieves do not because they use initiative.

i have another idea… if an elementalist uses ride the lightning and they dont hit an enemy.. its instantly reset.

if a mesmer uses blurred strike and dont hit an enemy they can just repeat it over and over.

chaining stealth pretty much erases you from the game until you decide to go back in.. without very specific things like a vortex ability. even in other games with perma stealth the trade off is reveal on damage so you can fish for stealthers and they cant enter the center of a fight without alot of work. gw2 traded the damage reveal for not having perma stealth and that was stated from the start.

i play a thief and i dont have any issue with this. i hate gimic fights taht dont rely on any kind of skill. chaining stealth isnt out playing someone its failing to do your job and trying to reset it and go again.

learn to be more effective and if you fail….. you may have to eat the 3 seconds visible using evades or some other non stealth skill to handle it .. then you can crawl back in the womb of stealth where you feel safe and warm.

If you want them to be more like thief… instead if they miss… they should have 1/2-1/3rd their resources be eaten up… instead of just being able to start spamming more ele skills. I would be fine with that.

I’m fine with them nerfing stealth as long as they add in more mobility stuff to compensate. They aren’t doing that though… they are just nerfing and saying maybe later we’ll add in more mobility to compensate… but as for now ele’s will still be the most mobile class.

zaxon.6819:

all other professions have cooldowns on thier core skills. thieves do not because they use initiative.

i have another idea… if an elementalist uses ride the lightning and they dont hit an enemy.. its instantly reset.

if a mesmer uses blurred strike and dont hit an enemy they can just repeat it over and over.

chaining stealth pretty much erases you from the game until you decide to go back in.. without very specific things like a vortex ability. even in other games with perma stealth the trade off is reveal on damage so you can fish for stealthers and they cant enter the center of a fight without alot of work. gw2 traded the damage reveal for not having perma stealth and that was stated from the start.

i play a thief and i dont have any issue with this. i hate gimic fights taht dont rely on any kind of skill. chaining stealth isnt out playing someone its failing to do your job and trying to reset it and go again.

learn to be more effective and if you fail….. you may have to eat the 3 seconds visible using evades or some other non stealth skill to handle it .. then you can crawl back in the womb of stealth where you feel safe and warm.

except thieves do have cooldowns on a all but basically there 1 weapon stealth

And its not even the cooldown im talking about its the gap between use, everyone can pop all there abilities basically back to back if need be, with the blanket nerf change a thief will be the only one unable to do so because instead of focusing the alteration to where the percieved issues is (CnD spam) they’ve decided it should ALL be nerfed

This might make me quit the class. Thief will lose a lot of staying power in a fight with this kind of change. Shadow arts be reduced in value because thief will have to stealth less. I don’t see ANet ever buffing this class while nerfing it. Leveling elementalist now. Warrior is pretty awesome too.

Distaste.4801:

This stealth nerf is absolutely nothing. Heaven forbid you actually have to think about anything other than damage stats on your thief. The ONLY people impacted this are the ones that abused stealth to begin with. Otherwise those of us that didn’t abuse stealth won’t really notice it. I run with blinding power, shadow refuge and even C&D some myself and I know it won’t be an issue. I already space my stealths out, I don’t want to be that perma-stealth abusing thief that has zero skill outside stealth. Of course I can see why those that do abuse it are upset, now they need to actually learn to play the class and won’t see huge numbers because they will have to pick up some defense.

Yea but you have to keep in mind… the stealth line is what controls a thieves condition removal, stun breaks, buffs, and heals. So basically, if a thief uses cnd comes out of it and gets hit by oooh i dont know… how about 3 ranger traps where the ranger has condition damage trait of oooh… 1.2k… so the trap ticks a very nice amount of dmg… well the thief now has to wait 3 seconds for their Hide In Shadows to be of use even though it isnt on cooldown… wow yea that makes lots of sense. Lets keep a Ranger from using Healing Spring for an additional 3 seconds past the cooldown of the ability just because one of their trait line abilities gave them regen… wow the fire that would be fueled then.

Ruggan.4102:

Distaste.4801:

This stealth nerf is absolutely nothing. Heaven forbid you actually have to think about anything other than damage stats on your thief. The ONLY people impacted this are the ones that abused stealth to begin with. Otherwise those of us that didn’t abuse stealth won’t really notice it. I run with blinding power, shadow refuge and even C&D some myself and I know it won’t be an issue. I already space my stealths out, I don’t want to be that perma-stealth abusing thief that has zero skill outside stealth. Of course I can see why those that do abuse it are upset, now they need to actually learn to play the class and won’t see huge numbers because they will have to pick up some defense.

Yea but you have to keep in mind… the stealth line is what controls a thieves condition removal, stun breaks, buffs, and heals. So basically, if a thief uses cnd comes out of it and gets hit by oooh i dont know… how about 3 ranger traps where the ranger has condition damage trait of oooh… 1.2k… so the trap ticks a very nice amount of dmg… well the thief now has to wait 3 seconds for their Hide In Shadows to be of use even though it isnt on cooldown… wow yea that makes lots of sense. Lets keep a Ranger from using Healing Spring for an additional 3 seconds past the cooldown of the ability just because one of their trait line abilities gave them regen… wow the fire that would be fueled then.

only a thief could complain that he has to be visible for an extra 3 seconds while dishing out 7k heartseekers and 9k backstabs!

if you die in that 3 seconds, you’re unpseakably awful.

vespers.1759:

Ruggan.4102:

Distaste.4801:

This stealth nerf is absolutely nothing. Heaven forbid you actually have to think about anything other than damage stats on your thief. The ONLY people impacted this are the ones that abused stealth to begin with. Otherwise those of us that didn’t abuse stealth won’t really notice it. I run with blinding power, shadow refuge and even C&D some myself and I know it won’t be an issue. I already space my stealths out, I don’t want to be that perma-stealth abusing thief that has zero skill outside stealth. Of course I can see why those that do abuse it are upset, now they need to actually learn to play the class and won’t see huge numbers because they will have to pick up some defense.

Yea but you have to keep in mind… the stealth line is what controls a thieves condition removal, stun breaks, buffs, and heals. So basically, if a thief uses cnd comes out of it and gets hit by oooh i dont know… how about 3 ranger traps where the ranger has condition damage trait of oooh… 1.2k… so the trap ticks a very nice amount of dmg… well the thief now has to wait 3 seconds for their Hide In Shadows to be of use even though it isnt on cooldown… wow yea that makes lots of sense. Lets keep a Ranger from using Healing Spring for an additional 3 seconds past the cooldown of the ability just because one of their trait line abilities gave them regen… wow the fire that would be fueled then.

only a thief could complain that he has to be visible for an extra 3 seconds while dishing out 7k heartseekers and 9k backstabs!

if you die in that 3 seconds, you’re unpseakably awful.

Not every thief deals that much damage with those two attacks. Those thieves are what we like to call Glasscannons if they do that much. And he’s complaing since we get punished now for using our heal or when our Last refuge trait kicks in, or when descent into shadows kicks in which he has every right to.

RedSpectrum.1975:

vespers.1759:

Ruggan.4102:

Distaste.4801:

This stealth nerf is absolutely nothing. Heaven forbid you actually have to think about anything other than damage stats on your thief. The ONLY people impacted this are the ones that abused stealth to begin with. Otherwise those of us that didn’t abuse stealth won’t really notice it. I run with blinding power, shadow refuge and even C&D some myself and I know it won’t be an issue. I already space my stealths out, I don’t want to be that perma-stealth abusing thief that has zero skill outside stealth. Of course I can see why those that do abuse it are upset, now they need to actually learn to play the class and won’t see huge numbers because they will have to pick up some defense.

Yea but you have to keep in mind… the stealth line is what controls a thieves condition removal, stun breaks, buffs, and heals. So basically, if a thief uses cnd comes out of it and gets hit by oooh i dont know… how about 3 ranger traps where the ranger has condition damage trait of oooh… 1.2k… so the trap ticks a very nice amount of dmg… well the thief now has to wait 3 seconds for their Hide In Shadows to be of use even though it isnt on cooldown… wow yea that makes lots of sense. Lets keep a Ranger from using Healing Spring for an additional 3 seconds past the cooldown of the ability just because one of their trait line abilities gave them regen… wow the fire that would be fueled then.

only a thief could complain that he has to be visible for an extra 3 seconds while dishing out 7k heartseekers and 9k backstabs!

if you die in that 3 seconds, you’re unpseakably awful.

Not every thief deals that much damage with those two attacks. Those thieves are what we like to call Glasscannons if they do that much. And he’s complaing since we get punished now for using our heal or when our Last refuge trait kicks in, which he has every right to.

sure, just like i have a right to complain that i only won 5 million in the lottery instead of 20 million, but the only ones who care are the other lotto winners. everyone else just thinks you’re greedy.

it’s called balance, and thieves need it.

vespers.1759:

ensoriki.5789:

vespers.1759:

huehuehue cry thieves cry! hopefully there’ll be a few more nerfs coming after this.

i’d love to see the tears if thieves were rendered as trashy as rangers, necros and engis but alas i don’t think it’ll happen. i’ll just content myself with the bitter tears of reduced OPness.

You know how I know you need to play more?

nope, but i’d love to see you try to defend thieves. 10 points if it isn’t a L2P comment or a comment about how one must play a thief to know thief.

Considers rangers, and engi’s trashy. Engi’s are quite strong in WvW and Spvp.
Ranger’s are wreckers in spvp, ow-pve, and will be improving in fractals in 9 days.
No but they’re trashy lol wot. Mind boggling the things people say.

Defend what? This changes means jack diddly and was gladly welcomed.
It’s only funny how kitten you are from your clear personal dislike for a profession that you scream for nerfs without shame only highlighting your inability to play. Or in other words, so long as your personal ego is no longer injured you wouldn’t care what happened to the state of the profession.

vespers.1759:

RedSpectrum.1975:

vespers.1759:

Ruggan.4102:

Distaste.4801:

This stealth nerf is absolutely nothing. Heaven forbid you actually have to think about anything other than damage stats on your thief. The ONLY people impacted this are the ones that abused stealth to begin with. Otherwise those of us that didn’t abuse stealth won’t really notice it. I run with blinding power, shadow refuge and even C&D some myself and I know it won’t be an issue. I already space my stealths out, I don’t want to be that perma-stealth abusing thief that has zero skill outside stealth. Of course I can see why those that do abuse it are upset, now they need to actually learn to play the class and won’t see huge numbers because they will have to pick up some defense.

Yea but you have to keep in mind… the stealth line is what controls a thieves condition removal, stun breaks, buffs, and heals. So basically, if a thief uses cnd comes out of it and gets hit by oooh i dont know… how about 3 ranger traps where the ranger has condition damage trait of oooh… 1.2k… so the trap ticks a very nice amount of dmg… well the thief now has to wait 3 seconds for their Hide In Shadows to be of use even though it isnt on cooldown… wow yea that makes lots of sense. Lets keep a Ranger from using Healing Spring for an additional 3 seconds past the cooldown of the ability just because one of their trait line abilities gave them regen… wow the fire that would be fueled then.

only a thief could complain that he has to be visible for an extra 3 seconds while dishing out 7k heartseekers and 9k backstabs!

if you die in that 3 seconds, you’re unpseakably awful.

Not every thief deals that much damage with those two attacks. Those thieves are what we like to call Glasscannons if they do that much. And he’s complaing since we get punished now for using our heal or when our Last refuge trait kicks in, which he has every right to.

sure, just like i have a right to complain that i only won 5 million in the lottery instead of 20 million, but the only ones who care are the other lotto winners. everyone else just thinks you’re greedy.

it’s called balance, and thieves need it.

Balance is also subjective. I have run into many players who keep calm when I go stealth and time there evades and swings making it so that stealth for me would become a momentum breaker rather than a chance to open on them. I’ve said this before, non-thieves want “fair” fights and you guys don’t even understand the term fair. Fair implies that both sides have an equal chance of succeeding. So even if looking at stats and skills, the thief, wins, its considered unfair. Only when you win will you consider fighting thieves to be fair.

ensoriki.5789:

vespers.1759:

ensoriki.5789:

vespers.1759:

huehuehue cry thieves cry! hopefully there’ll be a few more nerfs coming after this.

i’d love to see the tears if thieves were rendered as trashy as rangers, necros and engis but alas i don’t think it’ll happen. i’ll just content myself with the bitter tears of reduced OPness.

You know how I know you need to play more?

nope, but i’d love to see you try to defend thieves. 10 points if it isn’t a L2P comment or a comment about how one must play a thief to know thief.

Considers rangers, and engi’s trashy. Engi’s are plenty strong in WvW and Spvp.
Ranger’s are wreckers in spvp, ow-pve, and will be improving in fractals in 9 days.
No but they’re trashy lol wot. Mind boggling the things people say.

Defend what? This changes means jack diddly and was gladly welcomed.
It’s only funny how kitten you are from your clear personal dislike for a profession that you scream for nerfs without shame only highlighting your inability to play. Or in other words, so long as your personal ego is no longer injured you wouldn’t care what happened to the state of the profession.

i don’t play spvp and nobody is bad at open world pvp. they are absolute kitten at wvwvw and dungeons (which is what i play). if you think rangers being acceptable in spvp and open world pvp means they are good and well and don’t need balancing in dungeons and wvwvw you’re really dumb. it’s just a fact.

classes should be balanced for each game mode individually. i don’t care if the ranger is the god of spvp if it blows at wvwv and dungeons.

also minus 5 points for using the “L2P” argument. see my post above if you’re confused. it seems the only arguments thieves can muster to counter the mountains of evidence showing they are OP is L2P and go play thief to understand them.

I wouldn’t argue with vesper, he rolls a greatsword glass cannon ranger! wooo!

Funny thing is the bits of the thief that he complains about are the ones that aren’t going to get effected, its all the other thieves that will feel it because Anet doesn’t know how to fix small issues without wide nerfs

Dasorine.1964:

I wouldn’t argue with vesper, he rolls a greatsword glass cannon ranger! wooo!

Funny thing is the bits of the thief that he complains about are the ones that aren’t going to get effected, its all the other thieves that will feel it because Anet doesn’t know how to fix small issues without wide nerfs

no wonder heartseekers are doing 7k……

Dasorine.1964:

I wouldn’t argue with vesper, he rolls a greatsword glass cannon ranger! wooo!

Funny thing is the bits of the thief that he complains about are the ones that aren’t going to get effected, its all the other thieves that will feel it because Anet doesn’t know how to fix small issues without wide nerfs

i do? no, i don’t use greatsword. i use longbow and sword/axe. i said GS 2 is our highest hitting skill (except maybe path of scars after the buff) and that it hits about 3.5k in full zerk on most enemies, compared to the 9k a thief can do. it seems rather lackluster doesn’t it? i wish i could hit greatsword 2, 3 times in a row and hit 7k with it each time like a thief can with heartseeker but that would be OP wouldn’t it? even considering we still wouldn’t have stealth.

i’ll complain until anet listens and actually tries to balance the game. if it takes 6 months then it takes 6 months (i wouldn’t be surprised if it does).

And thus you reveal your ignorance once again, professions have differences if you want to have one of the potentially best bursts that isn’t limited by immediate cooldowns you roll thief, if you don’t then you don’t.

Complaining that your ranger isn’t a thief and that your incapable of using it to its maximum potential at what ITS good at then its YOUR fault.

Complaining about theves burst?

90k from an elementalist!

Dasorine.1964:

And thus you reveal your ignorance once again, professions have differences if you want to have one of the potentially best bursts that isn’t limited by immediate cooldowns you roll thief, if you don’t then you don’t.

Complaining that your ranger isn’t a thief and that your incapable of using it to its maximum potential at what ITS good at then its YOUR fault.

professions are different? you don’t say? different shouldn’t equal totally unbalanced. i’m not complaining that my ranger isn’t a thief (where are you getting this from?), i’m complaining that the thief can full GC and do hit 3x as hard as a ranger with a skill that can be spammed (222222) and still have stealth every few seconds.

thieves have absolutely nothing to worry about when they run GC, unlike every other class. rangers have absolutely no defense in GC and they don’t even get heavy DPS to compensate for the risks.

if you think that is fine you’re oblivious. rangers should not be forced to run bunker merely to survive a few seconds longer when thieves can parade around with heavy rewards and 0 risk.

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

And thus you reveal your ignorance once again, professions have differences if you want to have one of the potentially best bursts that isn’t limited by immediate cooldowns you roll thief, if you don’t then you don’t.

Complaining that your ranger isn’t a thief and that your incapable of using it to its maximum potential at what ITS good at then its YOUR fault.

professions are different? you don’t say? different shouldn’t equal totally unbalanced. i’m not complaining that my ranger isn’t a thief (where are you getting this from?), i’m complaining that the thief can full GC and do hit 3x as hard as a ranger with a skill that can be spammed (222222) and still have stealth every few seconds.

thieves have absolutely nothing to worry about when they run GC, unlike every other class. rangers have absolutely no defense in GC and they don’t even get heavy DPS to compensate for the risks.

if you think that is fine you’re oblivious. rangers should not be forced to run bunker merely to survive a few seconds longer when thieves can parade around with heavy rewards and 0 risk.

Yes, because rangers arn’t one of the best PVP classes in the game and nobody runs them in tournaments like they do with thieves…

Ranger is one of the most tanky classes in the game, even in full zerkers.

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

And thus you reveal your ignorance once again, professions have differences if you want to have one of the potentially best bursts that isn’t limited by immediate cooldowns you roll thief, if you don’t then you don’t.

Complaining that your ranger isn’t a thief and that your incapable of using it to its maximum potential at what ITS good at then its YOUR fault.

professions are different? you don’t say? different shouldn’t equal totally unbalanced. i’m not complaining that my ranger isn’t a thief (where are you getting this from?), i’m complaining that the thief can full GC and do hit 3x as hard as a ranger with a skill that can be spammed (222222) and still have stealth every few seconds.

thieves have absolutely nothing to worry about when they run GC, unlike every other class. rangers have absolutely no defense in GC and they don’t even get heavy DPS to compensate for the risks.

if you think that is fine you’re oblivious. rangers should not be forced to run bunker merely to survive a few seconds longer when thieves can parade around with heavy rewards and 0 risk.

GC thieves do have something to worry about. Im not even glasscannon if I get the first hit, ( I have a special way to deal with glasscannons) then they are done. No questions asked. A guardians aegis does a kitten good job of preventing a bv steal bs rotation as well. And let’s not forget our two favorite letters: C and C.

except spamming 2 will rapidly empty their initiative leaving them empty and unable to use any further weapon skills, they still take damage and stealth doesnt stop that.

The fact that you want this sort of power while still being able to use all the advantages rangers have is what makes you ignorant, you clearly don’t know how to play ranger.

Against competent players most thieves are actually at a disadvantage not having any real actual mechanical defense to reduce damage.

Rangers are not forced to run bunkers, there are many GC rangers and they are capable of dealing nasty damage but they accept that they also risk being taken down by other glass cannons, just as thieves do.

Sure theres some thieve cheese but theres cheese for most profs. People that claim thieves are overpowered because they think stealth stops all damage are idiots plain and simple and will never be happy with “balance” because their idea of balance is having everything while others have nothing.

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is one of the most tanky classes in the game, even in full zerkers.

this is hands down the funniest thing i’ve ever read on these forums.

Dasorine.1964:

they still take damage and stealth doesnt stop that.

how do i do damage to someone who is invis other than with a lucky untargetted aoe? also what aoe do i use as a ranger? i have barrage on longbow, nothing on shortbow, nothing on sword, nothing on horn, nothing on dagger, nothing on axe, and nothing of GS. i could run traps, and hope the thief steps into one but unless specced they fall at your feet. the flame trap that is probably the best dps trap will only activate when the thief is right on top of me (unless traited but that’s even more based on luck than untraited) and the terrible burn dmg will surely pose a threat to the thief who hits me for 7k+ a hit!

then of course the thief will simply stealth again in 3 seconds! wahoo! and my pet, who will never land a hit on the thief also provides the thief with an extra target to stealth off of.

vespers.1759:

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is one of the most tanky classes in the game, even in full zerkers.

this is hands down the funniest thing i’ve ever read on these forums.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcom0zm9MMmwMMMmwMM0xx0amsqmkbM

Protection, Traps, 30% damage reduction when your dieing…

Daecollo.9578:

vespers.1759:

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is one of the most tanky classes in the game, even in full zerkers.

this is hands down the funniest thing i’ve ever read on these forums.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcom0zm9MMmwMMMmwMM0xx0amsqmkbM

Protection, Traps, 30% damage reduction when your dieing…

you don’t know what glass canon means do you?

vespers.1759:

Daecollo.9578:

vespers.1759:

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is one of the most tanky classes in the game, even in full zerkers.

this is hands down the funniest thing i’ve ever read on these forums.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcom0zm9MMmwMMMmwMM0xx0amsqmkbM

Protection, Traps, 30% damage reduction when your dieing…

you don’t know what glass canon means do you?

Condition Damage and the other abilities for the traps isn’t Glass? The 300 condition damage and the other damage would make the ranger deal more damage then the other tree.

I would make my ranger to deal as much damage as possible.

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

they still take damage and stealth doesnt stop that.

how do i do damage to someone who is invis other than with a lucky untargetted aoe? also what aoe do i use as a ranger? i have barrage on longbow, nothing on shortbow, nothing on sword, nothing on horn, nothing on dagger, nothing on axe, and nothing of GS. i could run traps, and hope the thief steps into one but unless specced they fall at your feet. the flame trap that is probably the best dps trap will only activate when the thief is right on top of me (unless traited but that’s even more based on luck than untraited) and the terrible burn dmg will surely pose a threat to the thief who hits me for 7k+ a hit!

then of course the thief will simply stealth again in 3 seconds! wahoo! and my pet, who will never land a hit on the thief also provides the thief with an extra target to stealth off of.

You’ve been told multiple times as has all those that have come to the thief forum to whine

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

they still take damage and stealth doesnt stop that.

how do i do damage to someone who is invis other than with a lucky untargetted aoe? also what aoe do i use as a ranger? i have barrage on longbow, nothing on shortbow, nothing on sword, nothing on horn, nothing on dagger, nothing on axe, and nothing of GS. i could run traps, and hope the thief steps into one but unless specced they fall at your feet. the flame trap that is probably the best dps trap will only activate when the thief is right on top of me (unless traited but that’s even more based on luck than untraited) and the terrible burn dmg will surely pose a threat to the thief who hits me for 7k+ a hit!

then of course the thief will simply stealth again in 3 seconds! wahoo! and my pet, who will never land a hit on the thief also provides the thief with an extra target to stealth off of.

As I recall, the ranger sword auto attack cripples the target on the second attack and then leaps you to them on the third… The auto attack chain provides a clear indication of where the thief is and also prevents them from easily getting behind you to attempt the backstab. The pets can easily land hits now as they no longer drop aggro on thief stealth. Rapid fire continues to hit thieves in stealth due to its long channel nature.

I suggest you make a thief and take it to sPvP running it in full glass spec to see how other players react to you.

vespers.1759:

huehuehue cry thieves cry! hopefully there’ll be a few more nerfs coming after this.

i’d love to see the tears if thieves were rendered as trashy as rangers, necros and engis but alas i don’t think it’ll happen. i’ll just content myself with the bitter tears of reduced OPness.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/899987/chris-family-crazy-laugh-o.gif

LOL, post of the year!!

Ruggan.4102:

destroying aggro reduction on stealth (which also destroyed a thief’s ability to get out of trouble in PvE

Avoidance of trouble in PvE is not that difficult- even without stealth. Takes practice, in particular, practice without using a crutch stealth. Run laps of the cursed shore without stealth a few times, then describe how hard it is to avoid PvE trouble when you have stealth on you.

tl;dr: Those who have trouble avoiding trouble in PvE despite being able to use stealth, may need to learn 2 play.

Ruggan.4102:

Jeebus!!!!

>_<

Good change, should up the skillcap on thief significantly.

Lmao @ all of the QQ players cheering because Thieves are receiving a pseudo-nerf followed by a bunch of awesome buffs. You guys have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and it’s absolutely hilarious.

As somebody maining a Thief since BWE1, I can tell you now that besides a few traits that will need to be looked at, I welcome the upcoming changes.

Stick that in your QQ pipes and smoke it.

Incurafy.6329:

Lmao @ all of the QQ players cheering because Thieves are receiving a pseudo-nerf followed by a bunch of awesome buffs. You guys have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and it’s absolutely hilarious.

As somebody maining a Thief since BWE1, I can tell you now that besides a few traits that will need to be looked at, I welcome the upcoming changes.

Stick that in your QQ pipes and smoke it.

umm, so what were you trying to say?
i feel dumber now haven read your post….

All this blabber about thieves being able to stealth and all. Players that don’t improve or simply can’t learn to predict how to play against a thieve conveniently blame it all on the stealth?

Anet is simply removing another build thieves use and that IMHO is lame. It’s like removing mesmer’s shatter build or a guardian’s zerker build. And you don’t hear thieves complaining about an ele’s mist form or a necro’s deathshroud. Should those be removed too cos its kinda imba considering DS gives you a second life and mist form you basically negate most dmg. We’re not even talking about a ranger’s pet cos its mainly a 2v1 if you look at it that way. Hell…we should just have 1 class so there’s nothing for you all to complain about.

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

they still take damage and stealth doesnt stop that.

how do i do damage to someone who is invis other than with a lucky untargetted aoe? also what aoe do i use as a ranger? i have barrage on longbow, nothing on shortbow, nothing on sword, nothing on horn, nothing on dagger, nothing on axe, and nothing of GS. i could run traps, and hope the thief steps into one but unless specced they fall at your feet. the flame trap that is probably the best dps trap will only activate when the thief is right on top of me (unless traited but that’s even more based on luck than untraited) and the terrible burn dmg will surely pose a threat to the thief who hits me for 7k+ a hit!

then of course the thief will simply stealth again in 3 seconds! wahoo! and my pet, who will never land a hit on the thief also provides the thief with an extra target to stealth off of.

You saying thieves dish 7k HS proves that you know zero to nothing about the class. Since HS was nerfed back then 3 months ago , don’t worry thief will always be on top if everything fails you will be ruined by condition dmg. ANET needs to be really smart on adressing this stealth issue , less thieves means less players. Try to be smarter and informed before posting your carebear oppinions.

Every thread its ranger’s complaining. Its quite funny actually, since trap rangers counter thieves hard. I understand that rangers need some different build options, but wanting more and more nerfs to thieves doesn’t change the fact that your class’s diversity is just bad right now (the main problem with most classes). Yes I understand they’re changing thieves, and yes it will good in the long run. I’m just tired of ranger players raging hardcore at thief players. It gives other good ranger players a bad name.

Guys the whole point of a nerf is to uh…nerf. I don’t really understand the players that say ‘oh but it destroys all our defense’. This is not true; thieves can still stealth, just not as easily.

Obviously thieves will be weaker with the change and that’s intended. However if you are able to use your stealth 1 attack consistently, how does this change even affect you?

Ruggan.4102:

Distaste.4801:

This stealth nerf is absolutely nothing. Heaven forbid you actually have to think about anything other than damage stats on your thief. The ONLY people impacted this are the ones that abused stealth to begin with. Otherwise those of us that didn’t abuse stealth won’t really notice it. I run with blinding power, shadow refuge and even C&D some myself and I know it won’t be an issue. I already space my stealths out, I don’t want to be that perma-stealth abusing thief that has zero skill outside stealth. Of course I can see why those that do abuse it are upset, now they need to actually learn to play the class and won’t see huge numbers because they will have to pick up some defense.

Yea but you have to keep in mind… the stealth line is what controls a thieves condition removal, stun breaks, buffs, and heals. So basically, if a thief uses cnd comes out of it and gets hit by oooh i dont know… how about 3 ranger traps where the ranger has condition damage trait of oooh… 1.2k… so the trap ticks a very nice amount of dmg… well the thief now has to wait 3 seconds for their Hide In Shadows to be of use even though it isnt on cooldown… wow yea that makes lots of sense. Lets keep a Ranger from using Healing Spring for an additional 3 seconds past the cooldown of the ability just because one of their trait line abilities gave them regen… wow the fire that would be fueled then.

Thief condition removal is not all in the stealth line, there is a removal in the acrobatics line(when hit at 75% health it removes etc), you have a removal on a signet(just 1 condition but it’s AOE for other friendlies), shadowstep will remove 3 conditions, inf strike return will remove 1 condition, and you also have your heal that removes burning, bleeding, and poison regardless if it puts you in stealth or not. Also a condition removed every 3s is not bad by any means, I believe the guardian trait removes 1 every 10, same for the ranger signet so I don’t think having to wait 3s to stealth and remove some conditions is too bad at all. Again I will say that thieves that relied far too much on stealth will actually have to learn how to play the class.

Stealth is FAR too powerful, that is what people are not understanding. It not only gives you a huge advantage offensively but defensively as well. The fact that stealth can heal you, remove conditions, reduce your cooldowns(regen initiative), increase your crit, give you might, and blind all on top of being able to pick your battles, ambush your enemy, and get away if things go south is imbalanced. What makes it even worse is that it is spammable via C&D and the initiative system. ArenaNet took stealth, which is already a huge balancing act, and dialed it up to 11.

The initiative system is inherently bad. Most decent theorycrafters knew this way back in beta, we had long discussion threads about it. Initiative allows people to spam skills and since C&D applies stealth that means stealth is spammable. As I already said though, stealth is too powerful. That leads us down the road of how do you balance C&D? One way is just placing a cooldown on it but that negates the purpose of the initiative system. The other is to remove the stealth completely and replace it with some other defensive mechanic. The final way is to move the cooldown that should have been on it to stealth itself to prevent the spam abuse. The choice is pretty clear considering they don’t want to remove the initiative system or put in a new defensive mechanic.

Bottom line, the thief has spammable skills with stealth attached to one. No other class can spam their 2-5 skills like the thief so it’s quite obvious why the thief is the only class that will be limited defensively for a short period by one of the things they can spam. If you don’t want stealth to be changed like it is then it needs to be 1-2 things. Either stealth gets removed from weapon skills OR the initiative system gets removed and all our skills get cooldowns. Until either of those happens stealth needs the revealed debuff to keep it from being abused.

Only once we get stealth back under control can we start to iron out the other issues that thieves have.

I’m on the fence overall about this change. The only thing I really see being eliminated by this change is zerg surfing. The way they phrased it (or at least I heard it) is that you need to come out of stealth to get revealed, so D/P can still maintain long stealth if they want to. From what I can see, the meta will change to more S/D and D/P after this because S/D contains a snare to successfully land C&D once reveal is up. D/P can use bps to fight from thier blind field until reveal is up, then heartseeker out of it. The meta may change, and the people who are cheering about this nerf now will become more annoyed with the new playstyle than they were with the old one, especially when thieves don’t have to spec into full burst anymore to deal with a bunker when/if they institute boon hate.

Distaste.4801:

Stealth is FAR too powerful, that is what people are not understanding. It not only gives you a huge advantage offensively but defensively as well. The fact that stealth can heal you, remove conditions, reduce your cooldowns(regen initiative), increase your crit, give you might, and blind all on top of being able to pick your battles, ambush your enemy, and get away if things go south is imbalanced. What makes it even worse is that it is spammable via C&D and the initiative system. ArenaNet took stealth, which is already a huge balancing act, and dialed it up to 11.

Except its not stealth thats too powerful, 3-4 seconds of invisibility with a few extra effects ONLY if you trait for it is not inherently powerful, its power comes from people not following you and good players can and will still hit you in stealth.

The bad part is almost purely the C+D spam, which is really only an issue because of the damage from C+D (though how people still die from 1 mediocre hit every 3-4 seconds and not figure out where the thief is I dont know) or the combo field abuse to get a very long duration stealth, out side of those stealth requires burning a cooldown to enter, a cooldown that takes up a slot in a limited set up and of course while stealthed the thief is not doing anything but potentially taking damage so if people do chain their stealth there not accomplishing anything offensive during that time.

Except rather than focus on the few cheesey applications Anet decides to blanket nerf the entire system that not only effects every thief who uses stealth in any fashion (some won’t feel it, some will) but it also effects other classes and the entire game.

Dasorine.1964:

Distaste.4801:

Stealth is FAR too powerful, that is what people are not understanding. It not only gives you a huge advantage offensively but defensively as well. The fact that stealth can heal you, remove conditions, reduce your cooldowns(regen initiative), increase your crit, give you might, and blind all on top of being able to pick your battles, ambush your enemy, and get away if things go south is imbalanced. What makes it even worse is that it is spammable via C&D and the initiative system. ArenaNet took stealth, which is already a huge balancing act, and dialed it up to 11.

Except its not stealth thats too powerful, 3-4 seconds of invisibility with a few extra effects ONLY if you trait for it is not inherently powerful, its power comes from people not following you and good players can and will still hit you in stealth.

The bad part is almost purely the C+D spam, which is really only an issue because of the damage from C+D (though how people still die from 1 mediocre hit every 3-4 seconds and not figure out where the thief is I dont know) or the combo field abuse to get a very long duration stealth, out side of those stealth requires burning a cooldown to enter, a cooldown that takes up a slot in a limited set up and of course while stealthed the thief is not doing anything but potentially taking damage so if people do chain their stealth there not accomplishing anything offensive during that time.

Except rather than focus on the few cheesey applications Anet decides to blanket nerf the entire system that not only effects every thief who uses stealth in any fashion (some won’t feel it, some will) but it also effects other classes and the entire game.

well, so much for the “change little by little” policy… this is a very drastic change and i can’t wait to see (/sarcasm) what other drastic changes will be made to compensate thieves for this nerf (/sarcasm off)

A necessary balance change, along with the upcoming culling fix. Culling fix alone is a hard nerf for p/d attrition as they wont get 2 seconds of free-casting before rendering.

Stealth nerf just forces you to think before engaging and to pay for your mistakes when messing up, like everyone else.

Good thieves never needed perma stealth and 2 seconds of culling. Bads will leave the profession as was prophesied.

Hopefully they follow through with the mug nerf and buff the prof appropriately to compensate.