Guild Wars 2

went into wvw – got called a vault spammer a baddie and i need to l2p, tried to figure out how not to spam vault and win, started spamming vault again.

thoughts?

Dunno, never found vualt spam useful at all. Use blind and the evade back skill most of the time

People are jerks, and will insult you whenever you come up with a playstyle they don’t know how to handle. Don’t worry about it.

If your teammates are the ones saying it, ask them for suggestions, and if they don’t have any, ignore them.

Always expand your knowledge of all the things your profession is capable of, and never get stuck on one playstyle. Even if you have a favorite, it’s good to be familiar with other ones in case yours doesn’t work for whatever current situation you’re in.

Actually is a common playstyle in WvW as far as i know, at least if you are fighting more than 2 oponent, i use it when i see a static field(leap finisher + aoe) or when i see someone tryin to rez a down

A lot of ppl and a lot of thieves dislike staff because it’s relativly easy to spam vault instead of preparing a backstab wich does less dmg than vault ^^
but the main issue with staff is that a lot of thieves feel robbed by anet since their main playstyle (deception and stealth) was murded …

the main stealth playstyle was not murdered and more styles grow tight to the power of d/p but the staff in a competitive fight got way too obvious animations for the effect it delivers.

Yeah, It was a team-mate, but also had people PM me about it as well. Staff is not looked favorably upon in my wvw server.. I’ve been playing thief for a few years, mained S/D but since staff came out i’ve been playing that. I don’t dislike the playstyle, it’s just..i mean, why should i do 2-3-4-1-3-2 instead of just 5-5-5 F to stomp gg. Call it cheesy all you want. I call it a superior weapon-set. i will also say stat related power creep is nuts in PvE/WvW so getting 16k vault crits is a bit out of line but holy cow its fun to wind your thief up and let him go on a group of people.

no the fact that there is so much aoe, condi and reveal out there now is murdering stealth playstyle
I used to main d/d, which is dead, as a stealth deception playstyle with everything based on stealth to engage, disengage and just troll the enemy, try that now, stealth boom reveal!
that is why so many thieves don’t use shadowarts anymore or Shadow Refuge, because it’s just a big kill me I’m here and can’t do kitten about it Signal!
D/P is played most because every single skill on the bar is strong and hardcounters every other thief build, e.g. every other thief that does not take offhand p has no access to blind, a blind field and a daze
d/p is the only set with a gap closer on the bar #3 which is unblockable and blinds and does more dmg than CnD which should be a hard hitting burst skill but was nerfed because thief op

Main reason I don’t use staff is because of how ridiculous it looks when holding. Every thief wielding one looks like an idiot when running towards something.

Snowywonders.1378:

Main reason I don’t use staff is because of how ridiculous it looks when holding. Every thief wielding one looks like an idiot when running towards something.

+1 my biggest wish for staff is changing the way we carry the thing.

If your opponent’s movement sucks and you can land multiple vaults, go for it. Why would you otherwise not? I’ve hit enemies with 3-4 vaults in a row, because they move like 3-legged turtles. They shouldn’t complain about it, it’s highly telegraphed out of stealth.

If I determine my enemy is dodging/interrupting my vaults, I will adjust my gameplay though.

i LOVE vault spam :-3
i even made a new alt called “Kitty Slam Slam” just to spam vault and dodge XD
its hilarious spamming 10k AoE evades in Spvp
the salty hate whispers are delicious!

I can not imagine playing staff just to vault spam fun or practical. Most people know when the evade frames end on vault and then can decide how to act upon it. You can only use vault 3 times in a row too so what you ganna do after that?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I can not imagine playing staff just to vault spam fun or practical. Most people know when the evade frames end on vault and then can decide how to act upon it. You can only use vault 3 times in a row too so what you ganna do after that?

I mean, I don’t just spam vault 3 times and hope for the win EVERY time, I tend to spread them out among bound dodges as well as AA weaved in there, shadowstepping or blinding when needed. its just, when im trying to end the fight ~ Yeah, ill spam the kitten out of it with good opportunity.

Vault spamming is boringly one-dimensional, I don’t see why anyone would like to play that. Well, besides not knowing how to play anything else.

Reminds me of people whining about HS spamming. Know your skills and how to win. If you can finish someone off by spamming a skill a couple times, well, isn’t that why we have initiative instead of cds? I’m not a proponent of only spamming one skill, but do what the situation calls for.

people who call staff thieves “vault spammer” are usually scrappers/reapers thinking they are pro E$L gaimers with their mad 2-3-4 skillz and 240 radius AoE

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it several tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

babazhook.6805:

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it seberal tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

I’m pretty sure anyone who has played a thief for more than 10 seconds know they can use a skill two times in a row. I can’t take the rest of what you say seriously when you start by saying not many thieves understand that.

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it seberal tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

I’m pretty sure anyone who has played a thief for more than 10 seconds know they can use a skill two times in a row. I can’t take the rest of what you say seriously when you start by saying not many thieves understand that.

Apparently this not the case as the OP was being qq’ed about it.

There are also thieves on these boards that claim it “skillless” gameplay and refer to any types of builds that might spam a skill as “cancer” or will in game QQ after having lost to a spam , so I disagree with your point.

See any of the threads on d/d condition builds as an example.

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it seberal tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

I’m pretty sure anyone who has played a thief for more than 10 seconds know they can use a skill two times in a row. I can’t take the rest of what you say seriously when you start by saying not many thieves understand that.

Apparently this not the case as the OP was being qq’ed about it.

There are also thieves on these boards that claim it “skillless” gameplay and refer to any types of builds that might spam a skill as “cancer” or will in game QQ after having lost to a spam so I disagree with your point.

What you said has nothing to do with what I said. I simply said that because of your ridiculous assumption of what others know and don’t know, I did not finish reading your post. Never once have I stated my opinion on the skill of skill “spamming”.

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it several tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

I’m pretty sure anyone who has played a thief for more than 10 seconds know they can use a skill two times in a row. I can’t take the rest of what you say seriously when you start by saying not many thieves understand that.

Apparently this not the case as the OP was being qq’ed about it.

There are also thieves on these boards that claim it “skillless” gameplay and refer to any types of builds that might spam a skill as “cancer” or will in game QQ after having lost to a spam so I disagree with your point.

What you said has nothing to do with what I said. I simply said that because of your ridiculous assumption of what others know and don’t know, I did not finish reading your post. Never once have I stated my opinion on the skill of skill “spamming”.

What I said was in response to the OP who was qq’ed about spamming vault. You responded to ME.

What I said was based upon other threads in these forums regarding the spamming of skills and QQ received in game when other THIEVES die to a spam of a given skill. I did not mention you when I made my post so the post did not apply to you. if it did not apply to you than why did you take umbrage?

If a thief has never complained about skill spam either in game or on these boards than you would have a point. Until then I stand by what I said.

It is a part of evolution.

In the days of old. Ragers and tryhards could only count to two. So it is that to express their rage at being bodied by a thief they would say: “2222222.”

Now they have grown past two. Indeed, with the gift of HoT Anet has taught these young saplings how to count to five. So it is that they now say: “5555555.”

In all seriousness though. If you want to learn how to do stuff beyond vault spamming try dueling a staff thief in one of the 1v1 rooms. Vault spamming can be quite effective, but staff has things beyond it. Such as using Weakening Charge + Steal to get off all three hits of Weakening Charge. Also there’s using Dust Strike for blind, and setting up for Hook Strike.

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it several tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

I’m pretty sure anyone who has played a thief for more than 10 seconds know they can use a skill two times in a row. I can’t take the rest of what you say seriously when you start by saying not many thieves understand that.

Apparently this not the case as the OP was being qq’ed about it.

There are also thieves on these boards that claim it “skillless” gameplay and refer to any types of builds that might spam a skill as “cancer” or will in game QQ after having lost to a spam so I disagree with your point.

What you said has nothing to do with what I said. I simply said that because of your ridiculous assumption of what others know and don’t know, I did not finish reading your post. Never once have I stated my opinion on the skill of skill “spamming”.

What I said was in response to the OP who was qq’ed about spamming vault. You responded to ME.

What I said was based upon other threads in these forums regarding the spamming of skills and QQ received in game when other THIEVES die to a spam of a given skill. I did not mention you when I made my post so the post did not apply to you. if it did not apply to you than why did you take umbrage?

If a thief has never complained about skill spam either in game or on these boards than you would have a point. Until then I stand by what I said.

You literally said that many thieves don’t know they can use a weapon skill 2 or more times. I said that’s a ridiculous assumption and did not bother to finish reading what you said because why should I when you start with such nonsense.
As to why I pointed it out? Because I hope to enlighten.

Yeah dealing 5 digit numbers seems a bit excessive but w/e, that’s the route HoT took so they can present you with 2 doors.

1 door is old and weak with stains, and falling off the hinges but it leads you to where you want to go.

The other door opens automatically when you get close to it and also leads you to where you want to go, but it costs $50 to use.

babazhook.6805:

See any of the threads on d/d condition builds as an example.

link? I am actually curious about condi for thief (if it’s possible).

DHawk.2687:

no the fact that there is so much aoe, condi and reveal out there now is murdering stealth playstyle
I used to main d/d, which is dead, as a stealth deception playstyle with everything based on stealth to engage, disengage and just troll the enemy, try that now, stealth boom reveal!
that is why so many thieves don’t use shadowarts anymore or Shadow Refuge, because it’s just a big kill me I’m here and can’t do kitten about it Signal!
D/P is played most because every single skill on the bar is strong and hardcounters every other thief build, e.g. every other thief that does not take offhand p has no access to blind, a blind field and a daze
d/p is the only set with a gap closer on the bar #3 which is unblockable and blinds and does more dmg than CnD which should be a hard hitting burst skill but was nerfed because thief op

I can imagine this is the case for pvp. I don’t play pvp however, and I can still stealth with a staff. I just don’t have a spammable weapon skill for it. But the elite spec is definitely not to blame for stealth playstyle being dead in competitive play.

Liewec.2896:

i LOVE vault spam :-3
i even made a new alt called “Kitty Slam Slam” just to spam vault and dodge XD
its hilarious spamming 10k AoE evades in Spvp
the salty hate whispers are delicious!

10k AoE Evades… skill-soup.

i think spamming vault is how you play staff to be honest it basically a melee short bow.

:P if it’s not vault spamming …
It’s stealth spamming, and if it’s not stealth spamming…
It’s evade spamming, and if it’s not evade spamming…
It’s heartseeker spamming, and if it’s not heartseeker spamming…

You get the drift. Don’t take offence to it, just do w/e you wanna do.

Zero Day.2594:

:P if it’s not vault spamming …
It’s stealth spamming, and if it’s not stealth spamming…
It’s evade spamming, and if it’s not evade spamming…
It’s heartseeker spamming, and if it’s not heartseeker spamming…

You get the drift. Don’t take offence to it, just do w/e you wanna do.

Except Vault is big damage AND evade spamming. Other in game evading-while-you-damage abilities do exist but tend to have drawbacks eg less damage, have to be stationary, have a cooldown, share damage between targets etc. Weird thing is – there’s so much ‘easy mode’ damage available across other classes right now I don’t even think Vault deserves a nerf.

bearshaman.3421:

DHawk.2687:

no the fact that there is so much aoe, condi and reveal out there now is murdering stealth playstyle
I used to main d/d, which is dead, as a stealth deception playstyle with everything based on stealth to engage, disengage and just troll the enemy, try that now, stealth boom reveal!
that is why so many thieves don’t use shadowarts anymore or Shadow Refuge, because it’s just a big kill me I’m here and can’t do kitten about it Signal!
D/P is played most because every single skill on the bar is strong and hardcounters every other thief build, e.g. every other thief that does not take offhand p has no access to blind, a blind field and a daze
d/p is the only set with a gap closer on the bar #3 which is unblockable and blinds and does more dmg than CnD which should be a hard hitting burst skill but was nerfed because thief op

I can imagine this is the case for pvp. I don’t play pvp however, and I can still stealth with a staff. I just don’t have a spammable weapon skill for it. But the elite spec is definitely not to blame for stealth playstyle being dead in competitive play.

that’s not what I meant, our elite spec is basically what acro used to be (just a bit better) fullfilling a nishe in our gameplaystyle, which was evasion based, now the coin flipped and evasion is the best/most played playstyle because stealth is just lacking

Fat Disgrace.4275:

You can only use vault 3 times in a row too so what you ganna do after that?

dance on the pile of corpses you just created :-3

Liewec.2896:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

You can only use vault 3 times in a row too so what you ganna do after that?

dance on the pile of corpses you just created :-3

I rate this comment a perfect 5/7

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it several tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

I’m pretty sure anyone who has played a thief for more than 10 seconds know they can use a skill two times in a row. I can’t take the rest of what you say seriously when you start by saying not many thieves understand that.

Apparently this not the case as the OP was being qq’ed about it.

There are also thieves on these boards that claim it “skillless” gameplay and refer to any types of builds that might spam a skill as “cancer” or will in game QQ after having lost to a spam so I disagree with your point.

What you said has nothing to do with what I said. I simply said that because of your ridiculous assumption of what others know and don’t know, I did not finish reading your post. Never once have I stated my opinion on the skill of skill “spamming”.

What I said was in response to the OP who was qq’ed about spamming vault. You responded to ME.

What I said was based upon other threads in these forums regarding the spamming of skills and QQ received in game when other THIEVES die to a spam of a given skill. I did not mention you when I made my post so the post did not apply to you. if it did not apply to you than why did you take umbrage?

If a thief has never complained about skill spam either in game or on these boards than you would have a point. Until then I stand by what I said.

You literally said that many thieves don’t know they can use a weapon skill 2 or more times. I said that’s a ridiculous assumption and did not bother to finish reading what you said because why should I when you start with such nonsense.
As to why I pointed it out? Because I hope to enlighten.

You ought to look up the word sarcasm and re-read my post in its entirety. If you have never qq’ed about “spam” than there no issue is there?

bearshaman.3421:

babazhook.6805:

See any of the threads on d/d condition builds as an example.

link? I am actually curious about condi for thief (if it’s possible).

To a particular build? I was speaking to the threads where people complained about condition builds and the use of DB (which is how a d/d build applies conditions)

I tend to play power more but do have a d/d build that uses conditions over power if of interest. It a little different than most you will find as it focuses on healing over outright damage.

DHawk.2687:

bearshaman.3421:

DHawk.2687:

no the fact that there is so much aoe, condi and reveal out there now is murdering stealth playstyle
I used to main d/d, which is dead, as a stealth deception playstyle with everything based on stealth to engage, disengage and just troll the enemy, try that now, stealth boom reveal!
that is why so many thieves don’t use shadowarts anymore or Shadow Refuge, because it’s just a big kill me I’m here and can’t do kitten about it Signal!
D/P is played most because every single skill on the bar is strong and hardcounters every other thief build, e.g. every other thief that does not take offhand p has no access to blind, a blind field and a daze
d/p is the only set with a gap closer on the bar #3 which is unblockable and blinds and does more dmg than CnD which should be a hard hitting burst skill but was nerfed because thief op

I can imagine this is the case for pvp. I don’t play pvp however, and I can still stealth with a staff. I just don’t have a spammable weapon skill for it. But the elite spec is definitely not to blame for stealth playstyle being dead in competitive play.

that’s not what I meant, our elite spec is basically what acro used to be (just a bit better) fullfilling a nishe in our gameplaystyle, which was evasion based, now the coin flipped and evasion is the best/most played playstyle because stealth is just lacking

OK that’s fair, though I feel like SA wasn’t well liked even before HoT. Thoughts?

babazhook.6805:

bearshaman.3421:

babazhook.6805:

See any of the threads on d/d condition builds as an example.

link? I am actually curious about condi for thief (if it’s possible).

To a particular build? I was speaking to the threads where people complained about condition builds and the use of DB (which is how a d/d build applies conditions)

I tend to play power more but do have a d/d build that uses conditions over power if of interest. It a little different than most you will find as it focuses on healing over outright damage.

I’ve just had a hard time finding anything resembling a condi build for thief. And when I tried to build one, I was pretty sure I was doing it wrong.

Well, staff is just designed poorly. Staff 5 does high aoe dmg (higher than backstab), no aftercast and has evade and gap closer baked in. It just promotes spamming 5 since using everything else on staff is hardly worth it. I would probably reduce dmg on staff 5 and rebalance other spells.

Cynz.9437:

Well, staff is just designed poorly. Staff 5 does high aoe dmg (higher than backstab), no aftercast and has evade and gap closer baked in. It just promotes spamming 5 since using everything else on staff is hardly worth it. I would probably reduce dmg on staff 5 and rebalance other spells.

Vault spam is not used as much as you suggest as the skill easily countered. A person need not even dodge or block as he can just be in constant motion wherein the spammer hits where the person no longer is.

Most of the better staff thieves use the AA or weakening strikes.

I myself use hook strike more than I use vault. I rarely see staff users spam vault " because the other skills not worth it"

Staff is one of our better designed weaponsets in that all of the skills usable.

In my experience in WVW I see more spams of shadowstrike than of vault.

Anklot.3274:

Liewec.2896:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

You can only use vault 3 times in a row too so what you ganna do after that?

dance on the pile of corpses you just created :-3

I rate this comment a perfect 5/7

If someone succumbed to three vaults in a row they earned themselves that dance.

Vault is great against crappy or stunned opponents. Outside of that it will get a player killed. As someone noted hook strike, AA and weakening strikes are the go-to on that weapon set.

As for the L2P aspect, Shadow Strike and dagger AA is spammed far more frequently in WvW than staff. IMO staff is actually a more difficult weapon to use than dagger/dagger and certainly dagger/pistol.

Straegen.2938:

Vault is great against crappy or stunned opponents. Outside of that it will get a player killed. As someone noted hook strike, AA and weakening strikes are the go-to on that weapon set.

As for the L2P aspect, Shadow Strike and dagger AA is spammed far more frequently in WvW than staff. IMO staff is actually a more difficult weapon to use than dagger/dagger and certainly dagger/pistol.

yes staff is more difficult, especially against other thieves, thief v thief whoever plays dp has the better chances (mostly)

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it several tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

I’m pretty sure anyone who has played a thief for more than 10 seconds know they can use a skill two times in a row. I can’t take the rest of what you say seriously when you start by saying not many thieves understand that.

Apparently this not the case as the OP was being qq’ed about it.

There are also thieves on these boards that claim it “skillless” gameplay and refer to any types of builds that might spam a skill as “cancer” or will in game QQ after having lost to a spam so I disagree with your point.

What you said has nothing to do with what I said. I simply said that because of your ridiculous assumption of what others know and don’t know, I did not finish reading your post. Never once have I stated my opinion on the skill of skill “spamming”.

What I said was in response to the OP who was qq’ed about spamming vault. You responded to ME.

What I said was based upon other threads in these forums regarding the spamming of skills and QQ received in game when other THIEVES die to a spam of a given skill. I did not mention you when I made my post so the post did not apply to you. if it did not apply to you than why did you take umbrage?

If a thief has never complained about skill spam either in game or on these boards than you would have a point. Until then I stand by what I said.

You literally said that many thieves don’t know they can use a weapon skill 2 or more times. I said that’s a ridiculous assumption and did not bother to finish reading what you said because why should I when you start with such nonsense.
As to why I pointed it out? Because I hope to enlighten.

You ought to look up the word sarcasm and re-read my post in its entirety. If you have never qq’ed about “spam” than there no issue is there?

It’s sarcasm now really? Why are you backtracking? And even if it was, which is not, you telling me to look up the world is laughable since you clearly don’t know what it is. If you did you would know that to accurately display sarcasm throught text is not possible.

bearshaman.3421:

People are jerks-

That’s as far as you can go.

You dont know if the player that complains is bad and cant avoid a narrow aoe with a giant telegraph, is good but happens to always die to vault, or has a problem with thieves, their mechanics or anything even remotely close to those.

People are jerks. If the opponent losing to vault isn’t a jerk, it’s the person pressing 5,5,5, thinking that’s skill and then berating the opponent for losing to it.

Thieves have a counter to nuke traps and marks, and some people are jerks is the correct answer.

Tbh.

The skill with proper teleport use is double AOE backstab with evade frames.

I’m sorry but there’s not a lot of skill involved in doing BV → 5 → F1 → 5, particularly since it’ll likely just outright kill most people.

Most people aside from clueless deniers acknowledge that staff’s damage is overtuned as compensation for pretty poor utility and mobility.

Vault will be nerfed. Dust Strike spam will commence and people will realize why Staff is really broken. Profit.

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Snowywonders.1378:

babazhook.6805:

Thieves have this unique ability that even many theives do not understand.

It is the ability through the system called initiative to use a given weapon skill 2 or more times in a row. Part of playing the thief is managing that intitiative so as to be able to do this and part of the thief playstyle is knowing when it advisable to do so.

Using the same skill several times in a row can get one killed and using it several tmes in a row can get the other person you fight against killed.

There is no greater skill involved in pressing 111 or 1 3 5 or 333 or 1 5 5. It just a number on the keyboard separated by a bit of space. There is no “greater dimension” to gameplay requiring more “skill” if I play my warrior over my thief where my warrior is limited by which buttons he presses based upon skill cooldowns.

You use the skills that will win you a given fight and if you win said fight or lose said fight based upon which buttons you pressed it entirely your business. I myself have a pp/staff build and rarely spam vault. I use stealth in the build and prefer a hook strike/vault/IS. It simply more effective. That said if some enemy is trying to revive a downed enemy, yeah I will spam vault and take them both down and could not care less what the purists think and when I am fighting a dragonhunter parked on his traps , yep I will spam unload.

I play a thief because I am limited by intitiative and not cooldowns. The last thing I am going to do on my thief is “pretend” a skill on cooldown because others might get upset. Inititave management is one of the things core to a thief and not “pressing different buttons”..

I’m pretty sure anyone who has played a thief for more than 10 seconds know they can use a skill two times in a row. I can’t take the rest of what you say seriously when you start by saying not many thieves understand that.

Apparently this not the case as the OP was being qq’ed about it.

There are also thieves on these boards that claim it “skillless” gameplay and refer to any types of builds that might spam a skill as “cancer” or will in game QQ after having lost to a spam so I disagree with your point.

What you said has nothing to do with what I said. I simply said that because of your ridiculous assumption of what others know and don’t know, I did not finish reading your post. Never once have I stated my opinion on the skill of skill “spamming”.

What I said was in response to the OP who was qq’ed about spamming vault. You responded to ME.

What I said was based upon other threads in these forums regarding the spamming of skills and QQ received in game when other THIEVES die to a spam of a given skill. I did not mention you when I made my post so the post did not apply to you. if it did not apply to you than why did you take umbrage?

If a thief has never complained about skill spam either in game or on these boards than you would have a point. Until then I stand by what I said.

You literally said that many thieves don’t know they can use a weapon skill 2 or more times. I said that’s a ridiculous assumption and did not bother to finish reading what you said because why should I when you start with such nonsense.
As to why I pointed it out? Because I hope to enlighten.

You ought to look up the word sarcasm and re-read my post in its entirety. If you have never qq’ed about “spam” than there no issue is there?

It’s sarcasm now really? Why are you backtracking? And even if it was, which is not, you telling me to look up the world is laughable since you clearly don’t know what it is. If you did you would know that to accurately display sarcasm throught text is not possible.

What nonsense. of course you can display sarcasm through text. people do it all the time.

A number of studies concluded this very thing with the ability to convey and read saracasm based upon context, familiarity with a given topic , content of a statement coupled with cognitive abilities of the reader. Some people do not get “sarcasm” even when it spoken because they lack certain reasoning abilities.

So as example if I stated IN TEXT with no tone.

“It looks like the NDP will win the next election here in BC. This will mean more balanced budgets”.

People in Texas not familiar with BC Politics might read it literally.

People IN BC , knowing the NDP never had a balanced budget outside one which they cooked the books to claim as balanced would more likely understand it as sarcasm.

In GW2 if someone stated “They changed the costs of catapults in WvW. this addresses all the modes balance concerns” nearly everyone that plays WvW in GW2 would see that as sarcasm.

People that play WOW and know nothing of GW2 might read it literally.

In your first post you admitted you ignored all of my post past that first statement. This is ignoring context and content and responding in a knee jerk manner.

In a follow up post I pointed to the history of posts and of QQ by thieves in the game that critiqued players that spammed a skill and you dimsissed this content and context as not material.

Now we have another thread started with a person condemning headshot spam. Given all thieves and players for that manner should be aware that the INi system allows spam why are there these continual threads started on spamming a skill?

It is a function of the game mechanics. When I stop seeing such posts and such QQ than I will conclude people finally “get it”. Until than I will sarcastically suggest they just do not grasp the concept of Initiative over cooldown.

skill #2 + steal all the way

try to port combo someone or venom jump someone or invis venom port jump someone(lol) and you gonna understand why ppl hate staff.