Guild Wars 2

Thieves keep other beserker builds out of ranked play. That’s the problem in a nutshell.

urdriel.8496:

NinjaEd.3946:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

The thief skills are balanced around being spammable

That is the problem xDDD they can spam bad balanced/designed burst skills due to the initiative system.

PD:Sry if you are a spammer thief but , to say that something is unbalanced != QQ, you dont need to spam burst skills to win, if another class use a skill and miss, he have cd on the skill, if a thief miss a skill he can use same skill one more time (if have init ofc).

So if they have initiative, its OK to spam the skill? I don’t get why people are upset about spamming skills in the first place. Constant Q.Q from sb #3 spam and it does nothing but avoid certain death and even then, you’re initiative deprived meaning NO weapon skills can be used till it recharges. I think our weak heals, lack of stability, and being the lowest health pool all together more than makes up for our “spamming” ability.

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic, GW1 assasin mechanic (combos) is BETTER than a spammable skill mechanic, and GW1 assasin was good and you had a hell of fun with him.

Sorry to be “that guy”, but are you a game designer? Have you a degree in programming or a certificate in game development? I don’t think you’re in any authority to say what’s bad design or good design. The initiative system works, and despite what you think it’s pretty cleverly balanced. You act as though the game developers have no idea what they’re doing. This game isn’t TERA, so forced combos are out. Instead, players have the freedom to create their own combos within a playstyle. The fact is that GW2 isn’t GW1, and Thief is not Assassin. The two aren’t comparable albeit a few skills with the same name. With that logic, though, I should complain that guardians are broken because their shouts have an AoE cap and don’t support allies as well as the paragon, and complain that his spirit weapons are OP because they can move as compared to the Ritualist whos spirits were bound to the ground.

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

NinjaEd.3946:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

The thief skills are balanced around being spammable

That is the problem xDDD they can spam bad balanced/designed burst skills due to the initiative system.

PD:Sry if you are a spammer thief but , to say that something is unbalanced != QQ, you dont need to spam burst skills to win, if another class use a skill and miss, he have cd on the skill, if a thief miss a skill he can use same skill one more time (if have init ofc).

So if they have initiative, its OK to spam the skill? I don’t get why people are upset about spamming skills in the first place. Constant Q.Q from sb #3 spam and it does nothing but avoid certain death and even then, you’re initiative deprived meaning NO weapon skills can be used till it recharges. I think our weak heals, lack of stability, and being the lowest health pool all together more than makes up for our “spamming” ability.

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic, GW1 assasin mechanic (combos) is BETTER than a spammable skill mechanic, and GW1 assasin was good and you had a hell of fun with him.

Sorry to be “that guy”, but are you a game designer? Have you a degree in programming or a certificate in game development? I don’t think you’re in any authority to say what’s bad design or good design. The initiative system works, and despite what you think it’s pretty cleverly balanced. You act as though the game developers have no idea what they’re doing. This game isn’t TERA, so forced combos are out. Instead, players have the freedom to create their own combos within a playstyle. The fact is that GW2 isn’t GW1, and Thief is not Assassin. The two aren’t comparable albeit a few skills with the same name. With that logic, though, I should complain that guardians are broken because their shouts have an AoE cap and don’t support allies as well as the paragon, and complain that his spirit weapons are OP because they can move as compared to the Ritualist whos spirits were bound to the ground.

sry to be “that guy” but yes, im programmer.

We can create our own combos?? yes?? how??? .

In video games, a combo (short for combination) is a term that designates a set of actions performed in sequence, usually with strict timing limitations, that yield a significant benefit or advantage, and you talk about thief combos?? i call it skill spamming, but ok, you are the smart guy.

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

NinjaEd.3946:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

The thief skills are balanced around being spammable

That is the problem xDDD they can spam bad balanced/designed burst skills due to the initiative system.

PD:Sry if you are a spammer thief but , to say that something is unbalanced != QQ, you dont need to spam burst skills to win, if another class use a skill and miss, he have cd on the skill, if a thief miss a skill he can use same skill one more time (if have init ofc).

So if they have initiative, its OK to spam the skill? I don’t get why people are upset about spamming skills in the first place. Constant Q.Q from sb #3 spam and it does nothing but avoid certain death and even then, you’re initiative deprived meaning NO weapon skills can be used till it recharges. I think our weak heals, lack of stability, and being the lowest health pool all together more than makes up for our “spamming” ability.

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic, GW1 assasin mechanic (combos) is BETTER than a spammable skill mechanic, and GW1 assasin was good and you had a hell of fun with him.

Sorry to be “that guy”, but are you a game designer? Have you a degree in programming or a certificate in game development? I don’t think you’re in any authority to say what’s bad design or good design. The initiative system works, and despite what you think it’s pretty cleverly balanced. You act as though the game developers have no idea what they’re doing. This game isn’t TERA, so forced combos are out. Instead, players have the freedom to create their own combos within a playstyle. The fact is that GW2 isn’t GW1, and Thief is not Assassin. The two aren’t comparable albeit a few skills with the same name. With that logic, though, I should complain that guardians are broken because their shouts have an AoE cap and don’t support allies as well as the paragon, and complain that his spirit weapons are OP because they can move as compared to the Ritualist whos spirits were bound to the ground.

sry to be “that guy” but yes, im programmer.

That alone doesn’t qualify you to determine what’s broken or not in a game you did not program and don’t have the full perspective on. You’d also think someone educated would at the very least use proper grammar.

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

NinjaEd.3946:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

The thief skills are balanced around being spammable

That is the problem xDDD they can spam bad balanced/designed burst skills due to the initiative system.

PD:Sry if you are a spammer thief but , to say that something is unbalanced != QQ, you dont need to spam burst skills to win, if another class use a skill and miss, he have cd on the skill, if a thief miss a skill he can use same skill one more time (if have init ofc).

So if they have initiative, its OK to spam the skill? I don’t get why people are upset about spamming skills in the first place. Constant Q.Q from sb #3 spam and it does nothing but avoid certain death and even then, you’re initiative deprived meaning NO weapon skills can be used till it recharges. I think our weak heals, lack of stability, and being the lowest health pool all together more than makes up for our “spamming” ability.

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic, GW1 assasin mechanic (combos) is BETTER than a spammable skill mechanic, and GW1 assasin was good and you had a hell of fun with him.

Sorry to be “that guy”, but are you a game designer? Have you a degree in programming or a certificate in game development? I don’t think you’re in any authority to say what’s bad design or good design. The initiative system works, and despite what you think it’s pretty cleverly balanced. You act as though the game developers have no idea what they’re doing. This game isn’t TERA, so forced combos are out. Instead, players have the freedom to create their own combos within a playstyle. The fact is that GW2 isn’t GW1, and Thief is not Assassin. The two aren’t comparable albeit a few skills with the same name. With that logic, though, I should complain that guardians are broken because their shouts have an AoE cap and don’t support allies as well as the paragon, and complain that his spirit weapons are OP because they can move as compared to the Ritualist whos spirits were bound to the ground.

sry to be “that guy” but yes, im programmer.

That alone doesn’t qualify you to determine what’s broken or not in a game you did not program and don’t have the full perspective on. You’d also think someone educated would at the very least use proper grammar.

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

People think thieves are OP for two very simple reasons.

1) Sight is human’s strongest sense and as such knowing there is a danger that we are unable to see is one of the most widespread fears, even if people don’t realize it. Therefore the sudden and complete invisibility of stealth causes fear to opponents(even if they don’t realize it) which can lead to reduced decision making capacity and mistakes. This is the reason why stealth based classes have never found an equilibrium in pvp in games, either being overpower seeming or are nerf into something other players don’t even worry about.

2) Even more simple is the fact that thieves abilities and traits are better suited to small scale combat, which is where most opinions are formed. In large scale warfare there is not time to stop and consider which specific enemy that was that obliterated you, however in small scale engagements it very obvious where those super crits, stuns, blinds or hard hitting illusions are coming from. This leads to classes with strong dueling builds getting reputations for being better than builds that excel at larger scale warfare.

At the end of the day in their current state are thieves overpower? Not sure, maybe they are, but I do know that for as long as they are capable of true invisibility and are able to kill people they will be called “op” for the above reasons. I will say that I feel spiking from stealth should be gotten rid of, as being untargetable during that cast is unbalance-able without homogenizing down state abilities to include a counter if you know your about to be stealth spiked.

Thieves are OP due to “Low kick”.

“Low kick” you say? How so?

Excellent question. In side scroll fighting games, new players get killed time and time again due to one person spamming their low kick. This creates much anguish and lamentation. They say, you only win because you do low kick! It’s so cheesy! Nobody should be allowed to do low kick! Then after years of training with shaolin monks in a spiritual battleground the new players find their center. They discover how to “low block”. And the undefeatable “low kick” that was feared throughout the land, is cast out and reviled. Mocked at every town and city. Forever to live in shame from now to the end of time.

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

The cooldown system, and whether you like it that is what the initiative system is for thieves is not something you counter. That is like saying “I can’t counter Warriors cooldown on Fierce Blow, they are op”, which the first part is entirely true. There is nothing I can do to increase the cooldown of that ability, that same is true of initiative.

The thing about initiative is that its a front loaded and all abilities share a cooldown so if instead of using each ability 2-5 I can choose to use 2 four times in a row and then 4 if that is better tactically, however the better skills can’t be spammed indefinitely and an initiative-less thief is a worthless thief.

Additionally the values of utility (and in some cases damage) are less than other classes skills so that they are balanced and to discourage spamming the same skill.

gaspara.4079:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

The cooldown system, and whether you like it that is what the initiative system is for thieves is not something you counter. That is like saying “I can’t counter Warriors cooldown on Fierce Blow, they are op”, which the first part is entirely true. There is nothing I can do to increase the cooldown of that ability, that same is true of initiative.

The thing about initiative is that its a front loaded and all abilities share a cooldown so if instead of using each ability 2-5 I can choose to use 2 four times in a row and then 4 if that is better tactically, however the better skills can’t be spammed indefinitely and an initiative-less thief is a worthless thief.

Additionally the values of utility (and in some cases damage) are less than other classes skills so that they are balanced and to discourage spamming the same skill.

If you did spam the best abilities (which do get spammed) how long before you had enough initiative to use it again? Now compare that to other professions. This whole nonsense that a thief is the only profession that is restricted if it uses all its initiative is ludicrous. On any other profession if I use all my abilities and weapon swap and use all those abilities I’m left with just auto attacking. The same holds true for thieves EXCEPT their abilities will be up sooner than any affective cool down of any other class.

Pyriall.5027:

gaspara.4079:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

The cooldown system, and whether you like it that is what the initiative system is for thieves is not something you counter. That is like saying “I can’t counter Warriors cooldown on Fierce Blow, they are op”, which the first part is entirely true. There is nothing I can do to increase the cooldown of that ability, that same is true of initiative.

The thing about initiative is that its a front loaded and all abilities share a cooldown so if instead of using each ability 2-5 I can choose to use 2 four times in a row and then 4 if that is better tactically, however the better skills can’t be spammed indefinitely and an initiative-less thief is a worthless thief.

Additionally the values of utility (and in some cases damage) are less than other classes skills so that they are balanced and to discourage spamming the same skill.

If you did spam the best abilities (which do get spammed) how long before you had enough initiative to use it again? Now compare that to other professions. This whole nonsense that a thief is the only profession that is restricted if it uses all its initiative is ludicrous. On any other profession if I use all my abilities and weapon swap and use all those abilities I’m left with just auto attacking. The same holds true for thieves EXCEPT their abilities will be up sooner than any affective cool down of any other class.

They’re also balanced around that.

Pyriall.5027:

gaspara.4079:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

The cooldown system, and whether you like it that is what the initiative system is for thieves is not something you counter. That is like saying “I can’t counter Warriors cooldown on Fierce Blow, they are op”, which the first part is entirely true. There is nothing I can do to increase the cooldown of that ability, that same is true of initiative.

The thing about initiative is that its a front loaded and all abilities share a cooldown so if instead of using each ability 2-5 I can choose to use 2 four times in a row and then 4 if that is better tactically, however the better skills can’t be spammed indefinitely and an initiative-less thief is a worthless thief.

Additionally the values of utility (and in some cases damage) are less than other classes skills so that they are balanced and to discourage spamming the same skill.

If you did spam the best abilities (which do get spammed) how long before you had enough initiative to use it again? Now compare that to other professions. This whole nonsense that a thief is the only profession that is restricted if it uses all its initiative is ludicrous. On any other profession if I use all my abilities and weapon swap and use all those abilities I’m left with just auto attacking. The same holds true for thieves EXCEPT their abilities will be up sooner than any affective cool down of any other class.

Please don’t forget that initiative is shared between weapon sets, so Thieves do not have the luxury of switching weapon sets and having 4 more skills to go through. Without 15 points into Trickery you can only use your most powerful abilities, they are Cloak and Dagger (dagger offhand), Black Powder (pistol offhand) and Infiltrator’s Arrow (bow) and each cost 6init, twice and then you are completely out of initiative. At that point its as though they have just used every ability on both weapon sets and all you did was use two abilities that are roughly equivalent to a 20-25 second cooldown ability on another class.

Like I said before its purely a front loaded system, if you predictably spam the same ability, a smart opponent will easily be able to deal with you. Which is why I maintain that the reason Thieves are called “op” has to do with the fear associated with things we can’t see and thieves being designed around smaller scale encounters.

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though. The initiative system for thief is not broken or poorly designed. I can list what is though and why:

1.) Nerfing Thieves into a corner. The way arenanet has been nerfing this profession I can only assume that they want everyone playing d/d. And I say this because out of all of the weaponsets they messed with, d/d remains touched on the least. It is still about as viable as it was months ago.

2.) Useless utilities, overpowered related traits. Venoms by themselves are not worth slotting. However, once you equip 5 out of 7 of their related traits they become viable. Thief signets are underwhelming with at least half of their effects situational or useless, but if you equip both of their traits they go from instacast signets into initiative and might stack banks.

3.) Trait and utility fillers. What I mean by “fillers” are those skills and traits that are only there to maintain a sense of variety. Doesn’t matter if the trait or skill is worth using so long as the profession has that sense. Things like Combined Training, Power Shots and skills like Needle Trap are so weak that you hinder yourself by taking them. Seriously, what is 5% when its for weapons that don’t put out THAT much damage? About 100-200 points of damage. Maybe 500 if you are zerking. Not very significant. In fact, combined training boosts the damage of dual skills just slightly above the autoattacks. Which reminds me…

4.) Autoattacks are best dps. And this isn’t exclusive to thieves either. What is the point of having straight damaging skills when you are better off letting AA do it’s thing?

gaspara.4079:

Pyriall.5027:

gaspara.4079:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

The cooldown system, and whether you like it that is what the initiative system is for thieves is not something you counter. That is like saying “I can’t counter Warriors cooldown on Fierce Blow, they are op”, which the first part is entirely true. There is nothing I can do to increase the cooldown of that ability, that same is true of initiative.

The thing about initiative is that its a front loaded and all abilities share a cooldown so if instead of using each ability 2-5 I can choose to use 2 four times in a row and then 4 if that is better tactically, however the better skills can’t be spammed indefinitely and an initiative-less thief is a worthless thief.

Additionally the values of utility (and in some cases damage) are less than other classes skills so that they are balanced and to discourage spamming the same skill.

If you did spam the best abilities (which do get spammed) how long before you had enough initiative to use it again? Now compare that to other professions. This whole nonsense that a thief is the only profession that is restricted if it uses all its initiative is ludicrous. On any other profession if I use all my abilities and weapon swap and use all those abilities I’m left with just auto attacking. The same holds true for thieves EXCEPT their abilities will be up sooner than any affective cool down of any other class.

Please don’t forget that initiative is shared between weapon sets, so Thieves do not have the luxury of switching weapon sets and having 4 more skills to go through. Without 15 points into Trickery you can only use your most powerful abilities, they are Cloak and Dagger (dagger offhand), Black Powder (pistol offhand) and Infiltrator’s Arrow (bow) and each cost 6init, twice and then you are completely out of initiative. At that point its as though they have just used every ability on both weapon sets and all you did was use two abilities that are roughly equivalent to a 20-25 second cooldown ability on another class.

Like I said before its purely a front loaded system, if you predictably spam the same ability, a smart opponent will easily be able to deal with you. Which is why I maintain that the reason Thieves are called “op” has to do with the fear associated with things we can’t see and thieves being designed around smaller scale encounters.

And like I said…if you weapon swap with zero initiative how long before you can use an ability? This whole idea that thieves are at a disadvantage that no other profession encounters as a result of depleted initiative is a farce.

The most prevalent s/p build can use pistor whip 4-5 times in a row before they are completely out of initiative. Imagine any other profession with this type of playstyle.

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.

urdriel.8496 . . . . emmmmm let me get something . . .

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.

Powerful???

56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.

25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

No but you do need experience for your opinion to carry any weight.

For example, I am a former thief main who spent over a year theorycrafting the thief profession. Because of it, I have WAY more knowledge and experience with the profession and I use it to make points in regards to discussions on the thief. Now you can argue with me about the profession all you want, but in the end I know more and know what I am talking about. And people will have to listen to me sooner or later lest they trudge through the same irritation I went through playing as one.

As for game designers, I am not one but I have done alot of homework on it, enough for me to point out that programmering and designing are two completely different fields. A designer does not have to program their designs however to help with budget companies usually combine both into one. But in their natural state, a designer could write a notebook worth of design and give it to you to program it into a videogame.

Main point is: experience counts.

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

No but you do need experience for your opinion to carry any weight.

For example, I am a former thief main who spent over a year theorycrafting the thief profession. Because of it, I have WAY more knowledge and experience with the profession and I use it to make points in regards to discussions on the thief. Now you can argue with me about the profession all you want, but in the end I know more and know what I am talking about. And people will have to listen to me sooner or later lest they trudge through the same irritation I went through playing as one.

As for game designers, I am not one but I have done alot of homework on it, enough for me to point out that programmering and designing are two completely different fields. A designer does not have to program their designs however to help with budget companies usually combine both into one. But in their natural state, a designer could write a notebook worth of design and give it to you to program it into a videogame.

Main point is: experience counts.

Yes , experience counts,.

And??

Was your thief friend who said that my opinion is wrong because im not a game designer……

BTW, no point to talk about thieves in a thief forum, still playing with the OP mechanic, i have a thief and it is really fun to play.

urdriel.8496:

Yes , experience counts,.

And??

Was your thief friend who said that my opinion is wrong because im not a game designer……

BTW, no point to talk about thieves in a thief forum, still playing with the OP mechanic, i have a thief and it is really fun to play.

It is apparent that you don’t even read people’s posts. Let me spell it out for you….

You are wrong. Initiative does not need a counter because:

1.) It provides a universal cooldown for the thief, meaning that when it’s gone the thief can only autoattack until enough initiative regenerates. The thief cannot simply switch weapons and continue attacking.

2.) There are a few skills that are purely meant to do damage. Most of them can’t outdps the autoattacks anyways. The rest are either expensive to use or utility-heavy and weak. But not only that, thieves need the utility of those skills to maintain access to stealth and evades which are the main forms of survivability thieves have.

But if you still think the spam needs a counter, then all I have to say is one word:

Interrupts.

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Yes , experience counts,.

And??

Was your thief friend who said that my opinion is wrong because im not a game designer……

BTW, no point to talk about thieves in a thief forum, still playing with the OP mechanic, i have a thief and it is really fun to play.

It is apparent that you don’t even read people’s posts. Let me spell it out for you….

You are wrong. Initiative does not need a counter because:

1.) It provides a universal cooldown for the thief, meaning that when it’s gone the thief can only autoattack until enough initiative regenerates. The thief cannot simply switch weapons and continue attacking.

2.) There are a few skills that are purely meant to do damage. Most of them can’t outdps the autoattacks anyways. The rest are either expensive to use or utility-heavy and weak. But not only that, thieves need the utility of those skills to maintain access to stealth and evades which are the main forms of survivability thieves have.

But if you still think the spam needs a counter, then all I have to say is one word:

Interrupts.

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

Btw you have a nice post in the Spvp forum about interrupting a thief, and , you know what? a lot of thief skills DONT use init when interrupted, funny eh?

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.

Powerful???

56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.

25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………

I never said a warrior could hit me with that. You’re very bad at assumptions.

Here’s the 56k whirling wrath: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-7gVxk_b2M

Of course! I totally forgot that utilities and elites don’t use initiative when interrupted! How silly of me.

But in all seriousness your first post talked about initiative and spamming skills in general:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

Second, initiative is used before the skill fires off. If it does it any other time, its a bug.

Nice try but you are still wrong.

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

Learn to read.

where i said that initiative need a counter??? , the mechanic i was talking about was STEALTH, and a thief can spam stealth due to initiative.

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.

Powerful???

56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.

25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………

I never said a warrior could hit me with that. You’re very bad at assumptions.

Here’s the 56k whirling wrath: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-7gVxk_b2M

PVE?? we are talking about Spvp or WvW…….

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

SoLeciTO.3490:

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

Hey solecito, you need to learn to read too.

urdriel.8496:

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

Learn to read.

where i said that initiative need a counter??? , the mechanic i was talking about was STEALTH, and a thief can spam stealth due to initiative.

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.

Powerful???

56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.

25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………

I never said a warrior could hit me with that. You’re very bad at assumptions.

Here’s the 56k whirling wrath: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-7gVxk_b2M

PVE?? we are talking about Spvp or WvW…….

It’s achievable there as well. You obviously didn’t read the thread about that when it was up.

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

Learn to read.

where i said that initiative need a counter??? , the mechanic i was talking about was STEALTH, and a thief can spam stealth due to initiative.

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.

Powerful???

56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.

25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………

I never said a warrior could hit me with that. You’re very bad at assumptions.

Here’s the 56k whirling wrath: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-7gVxk_b2M

PVE?? we are talking about Spvp or WvW…….

It’s achievable there as well. You obviously didn’t read the thread about that when it was up.

56k whirling wrath in Spvp?¿? a full berserker guardian with 25 stacks of power hit a warrior with frenzy + 25 stacks of weakness??

urdriel.8496:

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

Learn to read.

where i said that initiative need a counter??? , the mechanic i was talking about was STEALTH, and a thief can spam stealth due to initiative.

Oh sorry, I wasn’t aware that stealth lets you “spam skills” and makes skills have “no CD” and such. Which btw in turn you said it doesn’t have a counter and is bad design. YES YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT INITIATIVE RIGHT THERE, SINCE STEALTH DOES NOT HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON COOLDOWNS OR SKILL-SPAM AT ALL! Gosh. YOU should learn to read. Seriously. Learn to read what you yourself wrote.

I start to believe that you’re trolling, because you can’t possibly be THAT… uh, I better don’t say the word. You’re not worth getting an infraction.

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

Learn to read.

where i said that initiative need a counter??? , the mechanic i was talking about was STEALTH, and a thief can spam stealth due to initiative.

Oh sorry, I wasn’t aware that stealth lets you “spam skills” and makes skills have “no CD” and such. Which btw in turn you said it doesn’t have a counter and is bad design. YES YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT INITIATIVE RIGHT THERE, SINCE STEALTH DOES NOT HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON COOLDOWNS OR SKILL-SPAM AT ALL! Gosh. YOU should learn to read. Seriously. Learn to read what you yourself wrote.

I start to believe that you’re trolling, because you can’t possibly be THAT… uh, I better don’t say the word. You’re not worth getting an infraction.

second post of THIS THREAD

Liza.2758:

it’s just broken in wvw with 99% of ppl running troll stealth ( shadow arts ) and shorter reveal

LEARN TO READ.

Now i will repeat myself, the thief is broken because initiative mechanic is Op due to the fact that this class can spam skills to use a mechanic that doesnt have counter ( stealth).

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

Learn to read.

where i said that initiative need a counter??? , the mechanic i was talking about was STEALTH, and a thief can spam stealth due to initiative.

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.

Powerful???

56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.

25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………

I never said a warrior could hit me with that. You’re very bad at assumptions.

Here’s the 56k whirling wrath: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-7gVxk_b2M

PVE?? we are talking about Spvp or WvW…….

It’s achievable there as well. You obviously didn’t read the thread about that when it was up.

56k whirling wrath in Spvp?¿? a full berserker guardian with 25 stacks of power hit a warrior with frenzy + 25 stacks of weakness??

In sPvP your damage will always be lower without food and the lower power coefficients, but yes. If your team is built for might/vuln stacking in a short period of time and the stars align, a guardian can still achieve a 37k whirling wrath in sPvP. There is no change in WvW.

Everything has a counter. It’s called experience.

@urdriel:

Sorry, I wasn’t aware that you and Liza are the same person.

So okay; you’re now saying that spamming stealth is OP then and there’s no counter to that. Well, hint: There are plenty of counters. You can find them explained in countless threads all over the class-forums.

And since you’re so focused on sPvP: Most (good) Thieves there do not spam stealth. It’s bad, because you can’t contest points while being stealthed.

Also, give the people a break. You said Backstab is OP and you said other classes can’t do such damage on such a low cooldown. You were proven wrong, and then you said “PvP or WvW” and the answer was “it’s possible there as well” and your reply “you lie it’s not possible in PvP”… uff. You know… Backstab also does less damage in PvP than it does in PvE or WvW.

Because. Riding moose into battle while spamming arrows. Teef OP! Nerf 30/30/30/30/30 plx

I main a Warrior in spvp and WvW since december 2012.

My opinion on this matter is that Thieves are not OP.
But they are not UP either.

They need some rework, but their job in battle isn’t the same as other classes, specially, heavy ones. There is some animosity between our classes, but I believe it comes from the fact that our jobs are done in a very different way. As a roamer in WvW, I almost never die to a thief, unless, they play smart and wait for another oponent to face me, then they are a huge threat(and not because is 2v1, but because my attention is divided). But also, to kill a thief, he has to make a mistake, a good thief wont be killed by a warrior (cc, condi, or both).

Warriors work in a very different way, we have good mobility, but when we come, you know what’s comming. While a thief, depends on not being seen comming, that’s its strength, beyond stealth, which I don’t find OP, is the fact, that you need to be more careful to pick when and how you will attack. Duels are a poor way to measure class balance in this game.

It has less to do with the class and more to do with pistol offhand. This is arguably one of the only aspects of thief where QQ is justified.

The complaints which mention permastealth, blinds, spamming, and burst damage from stab are almost exclusively tied to D/P. D/D is one of the most fair, and arguably one of the weaker builds in the game.

Got bursted by D/D? Learn to predict engages. He was stealthed at the start of the fight? He’s not building real burst and you’re exaggerating and are running a glass cannon build out on the open and were not prepared for combat despite the fact you should have been.

S/P is a pubstomp build. If you die to Pistol Whip, seriously, L2P.

P/P killed you? Lolwut?

S/D killed you? Should have probably considered the downsides to running a build dependent entirely on boons. Nice try at min-maxing.

P/D killed you? Okay, don’t spam gap closes and instead just beat them with ranged. Clear their torment stacks. Condis are already on the OP side for all classes, anyways.

There’s nothing really broken or overpowered about this class as there are massive exploits pertaining to some of its build paths.

urdriel.8496:

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

Saturn.6591:

urdriel.8496:

where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….

There:

urdriel.8496:

what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.

And there:

urdriel.8496:

No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.

This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,

You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.

Learn to read.

where i said that initiative need a counter??? , the mechanic i was talking about was STEALTH, and a thief can spam stealth due to initiative.

Oh sorry, I wasn’t aware that stealth lets you “spam skills” and makes skills have “no CD” and such. Which btw in turn you said it doesn’t have a counter and is bad design. YES YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT INITIATIVE RIGHT THERE, SINCE STEALTH DOES NOT HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON COOLDOWNS OR SKILL-SPAM AT ALL! Gosh. YOU should learn to read. Seriously. Learn to read what you yourself wrote.

I start to believe that you’re trolling, because you can’t possibly be THAT… uh, I better don’t say the word. You’re not worth getting an infraction.

second post of THIS THREAD

Liza.2758:

it’s just broken in wvw with 99% of ppl running troll stealth ( shadow arts ) and shorter reveal

LEARN TO READ.

Now i will repeat myself, the thief is broken because initiative mechanic is Op due to the fact that this class can spam skills to use a mechanic that doesnt have counter ( stealth).

Just stop udreil, you keep flip flopping and I’m have to call a local mcdonalds and ask if they’re hiring a cook. Stealth isn’t op, its just not at a sweet spot in terms of balance. Take this for example, if you removed stealth altogether what would thief be like? Some people have means of not abusing it, but in some fashion or another, its used. Why? Because thief isn’t beefy, they don’t get protection, or stability, or aegis, or blocks, or high armor, or high health pool, or decent healing power scaling. We evade, we position ourselves, and we break target.

Only people who continue to have problems with stealth are those who absolutely fail to ask questions and learn from mistakes. Try pulling a backstab build off and not abusing stealth at all and let us know how it goes. Initiative isn’t op either despite your claims that you didn’t say it is. Thief condition durations, and damage coefficients are all balanced on being “Spammed”. The fact that thief can pull off 5 digit backstabs is because the stats they chose, none of which are thief exclusive. When they pull off those numbers btw, they die from basic aoe attacks anyways.

Thief is NOT op in any way, people need to just grow up and accept they lost and learn what they did wrong and/or what they were up against. I don’t waltz into tpvp match without some prior experience in dealing with the known builds from each profession.

Oh, and just because we don’t all have a skill like “sic em” to apply reveal, doesn’t mean stealth has no counters. I hope you come out in the light soon so you may see that.

Like NinjaEd said actually.
I went a full GC Thief.
2k crits from auto attack is nice.
12~15k crit from Backstab is nice.
But being roflrolled in less than 2 seconds isn’t nice.

Some people simply don’t understand that in Thief class, the more someone focus on damage, the more squishier he becomes.

And if you can’t hit a GC thief even once….then sorry, you have to work harder on your own tactics.

urdriel.8496:

Viking Jorun.5413:

urdriel.8496:

Zacchary.6183:

urdriel.8496:

Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.

You are not a game designer though.

can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?

A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.

PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.

The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.

Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..

in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….

Actually, a thief can only use 2 CnD’s in a row. I’m pretty sure 99.99% of the people that complain about thief DO NOT have a level 80 thief as their main and use it in wvw. Maybe pvp. Thieves in pvp are different than thieves in wvw. Thieves in pvp don’t need toughness or much defense because they can better count on their allies in tpvp, that’s what a comp is for. in wvw thieves are pretty crap. You need to be good because most of the time 2.7k armor won’t cut it. (I use some cav gear with shadow arts) You still have the lowest hp in the game and you need to be incredibly careful not to die.
People complain about thief because they are annoying. I can understand that, but that’s what thieves are meant for. Thieves are annoying because of the blinds, stealth, fairly high burst damage, and shadowsteps/evades. But actually, a lot of this can be countered if you have half a brain.

Sunt.6835:

NinjaEd.3946:

1 second makes little to no difference in wvw. Pvp maybe, things tend to be close quarters and often quick but wvw is open and unpredictable.

Thief isn’t op, OP. It’s a learning curve that people are either lazy or selfish to learn. When playing against other players there are multiple things to learn.

Too many conditions? Bring condi clear/negation.
Too many stuns? Bring a stun breaker.
Too many evasions? Bring lock-down abilities like immobilize, and cc.
Too much damage? They prolly die in seconds, out smart them.
Too much stealth? WELL, you could, _______ (multiple suggestions, varies by profession and build).

Problem is stealth counters aren’t obvious, they are learned by playing the game. Most people rather just get a 1200 aoe reveal for 20 seconds and call that a fair buff to their class to deal with thieves, because they don’t care to L2P. It’s a sad truth, most people aren’t interested in working on kills. I can bet that atleast 80% or more of main-thieves rarely run into troubles when playing against other thieves. Why? Because they know what to expect and how their things work.

Thief isn’t broken, and stealth isn’t broken (which btw Mesmer has). It’s the ability to ask questions and learn that is absent.

Stealth is not broken. 30 shadow arts is broken
They ban SA and PU in touney for a reason

they ban PU bc the AI does the dmg while stealthed…takes almost no skill.

they ban Shadow refuge/healing in stealth bc a thief can go stealth andheal…. without this they die. with this the match is long.

you compare it in 1v1 to game play. in game play going stealth for long time or evading or running or hiding HURTS your team/zerg/guild/party etc. it makes them at a disadvantage. 100v100 thief against any other class will always lose…they are only meant for 1v1. nothing else….as of now.

Any glass cannon that can 1-2, or 1-2-3 hits and down an opponent 100% of the time…I believe to be way over the top.

Toughness doesn’t seem to do jack squat unless you fall from a cliff. Whereas vitality against a 1-2 hit is the only thing that’ll keep people up and in combat.

But then you stealth if the enemy survives, then go back at them with pistol whip, stun, 1-2 hit, and their down.

Can’t hit a target, if your not allowed to target an enemy in stealth mode. We can AoE blanket the area, but most thieves will pull back a distance.

Then you have 3-5 players, wasting their time, playing pin the tail on the thief to take them out.

People don’t “cry” about it.

Their just kittened OFF about it. There is a difference.

Unfortunately I fully believe that 1/2 the team in arenet main nothing BUT thieves. I seen one play necromancer, and was quite SHOCKED. But, seen nothing but a lot of Dev thieves during logins in way to many areas.

Because 99% of the people playing this game are really bad.

KeyOrion.9506:

Any glass cannon that can 1-2, or 1-2-3 hits and down an opponent 100% of the time…I believe to be way over the top.

Toughness doesn’t seem to do jack squat unless you fall from a cliff. Whereas vitality against a 1-2 hit is the only thing that’ll keep people up and in combat.

But then you stealth if the enemy survives, then go back at them with pistol whip, stun, 1-2 hit, and their down.

Can’t hit a target, if your not allowed to target an enemy in stealth mode. We can AoE blanket the area, but most thieves will pull back a distance.

Then you have 3-5 players, wasting their time, playing pin the tail on the thief to take them out.

People don’t “cry” about it.

Their just kittened OFF about it. There is a difference.

Unfortunately I fully believe that 1/2 the team in arenet main nothing BUT thieves. I seen one play necromancer, and was quite SHOCKED. But, seen nothing but a lot of Dev thieves during logins in way to many areas.

its not 100% of the time. its ONLY when opponent is using low hp low toughness builds and is not a heavy.

lets be honest k?

also in tpvp/spvp they are quite useless and in wvw they are left to shortbow which is 900 range. thieves are quite useless and anyone who bases OP’ness on 1v1 skills is pretty simple minded.

hihey.1075:

Because 99% of the people playing this game are really bad.

This is [/thread] people.

KeyOrion.9506:

Any glass cannon that can 1-2, or 1-2-3 hits and down an opponent 100% of the time…I believe to be way over the top.

Toughness doesn’t seem to do jack squat unless you fall from a cliff. Whereas vitality against a 1-2 hit is the only thing that’ll keep people up and in combat.

But then you stealth if the enemy survives, then go back at them with pistol whip, stun, 1-2 hit, and their down.

Can’t hit a target, if your not allowed to target an enemy in stealth mode. We can AoE blanket the area, but most thieves will pull back a distance.

Then you have 3-5 players, wasting their time, playing pin the tail on the thief to take them out.

People don’t “cry” about it.

Their just kittened OFF about it. There is a difference.

Unfortunately I fully believe that 1/2 the team in arenet main nothing BUT thieves. I seen one play necromancer, and was quite SHOCKED. But, seen nothing but a lot of Dev thieves during logins in way to many areas.

I’m still trying to L2P on PvP/WvW, but I’m pretty sure if you have a build that can 1-2 shot people 100% of the time, you wouldn’t have enough utility to just HAPPEN to stealth out of nowhere if they’re still standing after that. A good aegis and / or a good evade and you’re out 3 cooldowns @ at least 30secs, no stealth outside of just CnD. What’s the thief to do? Plus you don’t have access to PW, because builds that 1-2 shot people don’t use swords.

If you die to P/W, you’re not playing well. I hate to be so blunt, but that’s just reality. That skill is so pathetically easy to dodge the damage of and it leaves the thief heavily out of initiative, probably with utilities blown, and no stealth.

I’d like to mention I’ve been extensively playing thief since beta, have built every viable build, and currently possess two of them maxed out. I would like to mention however, that I agree there are some traits and offhand pistol which could be validly stated are broken. That said, the damage is far from OP.

My D/D stab thief has 4800 attack and 112% crit chance without food when I initiate someone, running a full line of bonus damage WvW bonus skills and offensive infusions and a 25/30/0/015 build. I to this day still cannot come even close to one-shotting hambow warriors, good necros who can use shroud in time, a smart mesmer who knows to dodge, a good ele who can mist form properly/drop a good field, hp/toughness rangers, and even guards with good reflexes and aegis spamming.

This burst damage is far from 100% reliable and frankly, I find the class to only really perform well against people who simply don’t know how to deal with a thief or simply bad players. Ultimately, such builds excel at killing single target entities which are caught off guard or do not have the defenses to take that kind of damage. Consequently, that’s exactly what a thief building in such a way is, and frankly, has less ways of taking damage than every other class in the game.

And the saddest part is that our damage isn’t even the best burst in the game. Warriors, mesmers, guardians (yep), necromancers, and elementalists actually have better burst throughput.

DeceiverX.8361:

And the saddest part is that our damage isn’t even the best burst in the game. Warriors, mesmers, guardians (yep), necromancers, and elementalists actually have better burst throughput.

Except this is not true. Provided you’re not terrible at thief you can wear down defensive cooldowns of every other class with repeated bursts faster than they can come back up. The repeated Reset → Burst cycle of thief is greater than even a shatter mesmer’s

In addition (excepting some peculiar warrior builds) none of them can catch you; this means that unless you are very impatient and greedy the WORST you will do in a WvW fight is escape.

This is the reason why people have legitimate complaints about Thieves, the mix of truly impressive damage paired with resets and escape ability leads to intensely frustrating play experiences for the other player.

Try playing a necro for a while on a T1 WvW server and go roam, and you will swiftly learn why everyone hates Thieves.