Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

Travlane.5948:

you realize 2 other classes arguably 4…can do the same exact thing within less than a second of thief or just as fast? mmmm? so lets nerf all 4 and buff thief defense bc the lack of defense is thewhole reason for our burst. agreed?

Thief doesn’t need a buff. The class is good at what it does and if it did any more it would just be overpowered. If anything, offhand pistol and/or heartseeker need a nerf.

Keep it a one-trick-pony but nerf the trick? Gotcha.

You wouldn’t need to wait for a nerf if you would just learn the profession.

Zerhoth.1528:

CobOfCorn.6352:

the only build I believe is truly OP would be the 10/0/30/0/30 P/D build with full dire gear.

out of curiosity what utilities/traits did you slot?

I would say:
DA: Mug
SA: condi remove in stealth, blind on stealth, regen in stealth
Trickery: Steal 2 boons, Daze on Stealing, last one open to you. I prefer caltrops.

Utilitys I would take:
1. Shadow Refuge
2. Blinding Powder or for another interupt Scorpion wire
3. Shadowstep

Elite: BV

Healing: HiS

Take runes of Perplexity (Daze on stealing and Scorpion wire to trigger #6)

Greetings Juston

Juston.6817:

Zerhoth.1528:

CobOfCorn.6352:

the only build I believe is truly OP would be the 10/0/30/0/30 P/D build with full dire gear.

out of curiosity what utilities/traits did you slot?

I would say:
DA: Mug
SA: condi remove in stealth, blind on stealth, regen in stealth
Trickery: Steal 2 boons, Daze on Stealing, last one open to you. I prefer caltrops.

Utilitys I would take:
1. Shadow Refuge
2. Blinding Powder or for another interupt Scorpion wire
3. Shadowstep

Elite: BV

Healing: HiS

Take runes of Perplexity (Daze on stealing and Scorpion wire to trigger #6)

Greeting Juston

this is exactly what i run several months before dire came out. works great with carrion bc u have the extra dmg u need against condi cleanse builds. dire is too safe :/…. aslo dont use BV….it hurts your build when u put up several stacks of torment …and BV is only good for burst or stopping a heal…but when u stop a heal u can only stop a 3sec cast heal…. 1 sec to cast BV 1set to shoot bullet last sec to stop heal. just not gonna work. use Daggerstorm for 4v4 + or thieves guild for spvp/tpvp point control. if u plan on doing 3v1s and just tearing people apart…u are better off with BV. if u plan on 1v1 3v3 etc….use somethign else.

Zacchary.6183:

DeceiverX.8361:

Travlane.5948:

you realize 2 other classes arguably 4…can do the same exact thing within less than a second of thief or just as fast? mmmm? so lets nerf all 4 and buff thief defense bc the lack of defense is thewhole reason for our burst. agreed?

Thief doesn’t need a buff. The class is good at what it does and if it did any more it would just be overpowered. If anything, offhand pistol and/or heartseeker need a nerf.

Keep it a one-trick-pony but nerf the trick? Gotcha.

You wouldn’t need to wait for a nerf if you would just learn the profession.

i gotta say …the ONLY time HS is terrifying is when im outnumbered. other than that i kinda hope they spam it :P

EDIT: this is exactly what ive been saying too! so… +1 for you. we all know thief has low defense no boons defensive no blocks no invuln…and the list goes on…this is all bc of our offense. if we lose even more than we already have… (we lost 50% of our burst since day 1…maybe more) then we need a HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE defense buff. huge brah lol. he cant disagree with that without sounding dumb

Travlane.5948:

this is exactly what i run several months before dire came out. works great with carrion bc u have the extra dmg u need against condi cleanse builds. dire is too safe :/…. aslo dont use BV….it hurts your build when u put up several stacks of torment …and BV is only good for burst or stopping a heal…but when u stop a heal u can only stop a 3sec cast heal…. 1 sec to cast BV 1set to shoot bullet last sec to stop heal. just not gonna work. use Daggerstorm for 4v4 + or thieves guild for spvp/tpvp point control. if u plan on doing 3v1s and just tearing people apart…u are better off with BV. if u plan on 1v1 3v3 etc….use somethign else.

yeah carrion is another option, but he asked for a dire build.

I like BV very much, because i can use it to gain an easy cd and because of its short cooldown. I think its is up to you which elite to use.

Zacchary.6183:

DeceiverX.8361:

Travlane.5948:

you realize 2 other classes arguably 4…can do the same exact thing within less than a second of thief or just as fast? mmmm? so lets nerf all 4 and buff thief defense bc the lack of defense is thewhole reason for our burst. agreed?

Thief doesn’t need a buff. The class is good at what it does and if it did any more it would just be overpowered. If anything, offhand pistol and/or heartseeker need a nerf.

Keep it a one-trick-pony but nerf the trick? Gotcha.

You wouldn’t need to wait for a nerf if you would just learn the profession.

It shouldn’t be that way. HS spam is scrubby and finds ways of working well even when outnumbered. Its leap finisher is also absurd due to the synergy with blinding powder/smoke finishers which allows for out-of-combat stealth uptime on weapon skills without needing to utilize a lot of utilities.

Frankly, D/P as a build is strictly the best of the sets. It’s a huge source of complaints, and is a large reason behind why the thief class is actually regarded as being overpowered and driving away other damage dealers; forms of retaliation are kind of futile. Either the leap finisher needs to be removed, blinding powder needs to be changed, or smoke fields need a rework. Frankly, even revealed could be altered as to always go into effect after leaving stealth and/or have a duration increase based upon how long the user was in stealth to promote less stealth-based play so that the burst is a bit more sparsed out on builds intending to have high stealth uptimes while forcing builds running more burst-spam into needing to find a true way to survive.

Then maybe you could argue P/W would need a slight adjustment to immobilize the target like s/x warrior’s adrenaline skill based off of the amount of initiative the user has.

The class is far from a one-trick pony even as of now. Fact of the matter is that this trick is too strong and too easy to get access to such that most other builds are pointless and the counterplay for it increases way more than the amount of skill needed to actually play it.

Don’t get me wrong, I support thieves and do not believe the damage numbers need toning down. I have two level 80 thieves and have dumped over 850 hours into them, both of which are full-offense builds. I do however believe that stealth spamming across all classes, even including mesmer, requires a very low skill cap and makes the opponents need a much higher one. This with constant access to burst and blind fields makes such combinations a little too potent. The risk vs reward on current stealth classes is just a little bit too low and rather than simply nerfing stats, such changes could allow good thieves to keep their damage if they’re capable of needing to stay in a fight, just as every other class needs to.

Other day on my engi build I was dueling a warrior on a point (he wasn’t doin to well) and a teammate joined in, a thief. He popped BV, attacked, and hit hs. And again. And again. At this point I’m thinking to myself," Maybe the warrior was low hp and he was just finishing him off", till I looked at his health (over 50%). Thief hit hs again, and again, and again, and again. About 9-11 HS later the warrior drops, and I walk away with a response in say chat," Hs spam….. im not fighting along side you.."

So many baddies that make thief look like a joke. I suppose the sandbox environment that hotjoin provides is the reason behind this non-sense, because I can’t find good thieves. And in tpvp I don’t see thieves that often, mostly mesmers guards engis ele, warrior strangly. Even a necro pops up here and there but I don’t see that many thieves in tpvp.

Anyway, enough story time. There are good thieves, or atleast enough moderate ones to cause ruckus where people cry “op! TIEF OP!”. Very, and I mean VERY few people give an explanation to their claims, and its always about stealth. If there is 1 thing I agree on with their claims, is that perma stealth is not fun and should be exiled from the plate BUT we need something in compensation for those builds that do that. This is a trade, not a threatening understanding. We lose perma stealth (no stealth lasting longer than X seconds, w/e is “Balanced”), but we deserve something in return for defense. Thieves abusing stealth are more than likely GC, so they are relying on the stealth to stay alive otherwise they would melt. Damage is not an issue, its our sustain that lacks potency.

DeceiverX.8361:

Thief doesn’t need a buff. The class is good at what it does and if it did any more it would just be overpowered. If anything, offhand pistol and/or heartseeker need a nerf.

Where is the thief “good” and with which builds??

DeceiverX.8361:

Thief doesn’t need a buff. The class is good at what it does and if it did any more it would just be overpowered. If anything, offhand pistol and/or heartseeker need a nerf.

Cool I guess it’s fair that we only get to do one thing and one thing only, while other classes can do multiple things.
And on top of that, we’re getting called OP in every aspect including those that we can’t really do.
Let me guess, I should roll another class if I want to do something other than the one thing?

Zero Day.2594:

Cool I guess it’s fair that we only get to do one thing and one thing only, while other classes can do multiple things.
And on top of that, we’re getting called OP in every aspect including those that we can’t really do.
Let me guess, I should roll another class if I want to do something else?

“Let me guess, I should roll another class if I don’t want to play thief.”

well… yes?

Reikou.7068:

Zero Day.2594:

Cool I guess it’s fair that we only get to do one thing and one thing only, while other classes can do multiple things.
And on top of that, we’re getting called OP in every aspect including those that we can’t really do.
Let me guess, I should roll another class if I want to do something else?

“Let me guess, I should roll another class if I don’t want to play thief.”

well… yes?

That makes sense….
I should probably roll a Warrior then, so I can roam, zerg, and be viable in any PvE/PvP situation. And only play a thief when I want to roam or be called OP even if I suck (honestly I’m not good, decent at best) but they suck more (and they don’t realize that).

Zero Day.2594:

That makes sense….
I should probably roll a Warrior then, so I can roam, zerg, and be viable in any PvE/PvP situation. And only play a thief when I want to roam or be called OP even if I suck (honestly I’m not good, decent at best) but they suck more (and they don’t realize that).

Well if you want to do what a warrior can do, then yes, you should lol. Likewise, if you want to do what a Necro can do, you should roll a Necro, etc.

Kinda logical I would think.

Reikou.7068:

Zero Day.2594:

That makes sense….
I should probably roll a Warrior then, so I can roam, zerg, and be viable in any PvE/PvP situation. And only play a thief when I want to roam or be called OP even if I suck (honestly I’m not good, decent at best) but they suck more (and they don’t realize that).

Well if you want to do what a warrior can do, then yes, you should lol. Likewise, if you want to do what a Necro can do, you should roll a Necro, etc.

Kinda logical I would think.

Okay, can you give me a list of each class and what they can do.

Zero Day.2594:

Okay, can you give me a list of each class and what they can do.

Yes I can. Whats your offer though?

That’s why maybe…

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

The thief definitely was running glass. Condi engi running very few bonus health items.

However this is an Engi complaining about thief?

And I can tell you that he critted CnD and that HS. Failed the stab, and managed a kill by heartseeker. ~1/3 of the damage dealt is from a gap-closing skill which can stealth (this thief was running D/D though), which frankly does just a little bit too much damage.

I do wonder, though. Why did you let him get off all of these hits? As an engi you shouldn’t be having much trouble with melee-range squishies which have little condi removal and low health. You chased him down with a pistol is all I got from the combat log meanwhile you have a ton of other skills at your disposal which could have easily shut him down.

Frankly if you wanna talk about DPS, thief isn’t the best. Axe warrior does better burst, and eles have the best DPS in the entire game of all classes.

Karolis.4261:

Can’t counter stealth …. didn’t actually read the previous post.

That is correct, there are no direct counters to stealth (or true counters as mentioned in the previous post). Once the person is in stealth there is nothing you can do but wait for it to end or for them to attack and land a hit.

I don’t understand why you thieves have such a hard time understanding the simplest of things. Everything else in this game can be interrupted or dodged before and then have another option for you to handle it after the fact.

If someone stuns you, you have a stun breaker.

Some one puts a condition on you, you have condition removal.

Someone blocks, you can use unblock-able skills.

Someone heals, you can put poison on them and keep it on them.

Someone stealths…. well then you just have to wait for it to wear off or be hit.

There is only one other state in this game that doesn’t have a “direct” counter. That would be invulnerability, but no class can access this state every 4 seconds.

Interrupting is a soft counter to many things. But interrupts are no where near as available as stealth is to a Thief.

Being a better player and dodging the CnD isn’t a direct counter. A direct counter is like the list of things above. I can easily dodge most of these horrible thieves CnD and backstabs but the very nature of the stealth in this game is so forgiving it doesn’t matter if I dodge 5 of them. They will always be off cooldown and ready to go. You have 0 draw backs for using stealth, but you have a ridiculously huge amount of payoffs for using this cheap system. It takes 0 skill to stealth around and have 100% of the control of the fight in his game.

Only the ones who are to bad to understand that this stealth is hurting this game and lowering the skill bar like it this way. You are not being skillful when you vanish in thin air every 4 seconds and run away.

Vanthian.9267:

stuff

It is hurting the game for players who do not want to learn. The counter to everything is knowledge and players who refuse to take advantage of this counter are going to continue to get killed. This isn’t exclusive to thieves either.

Vanthian.9267:

Karolis.4261:

Can’t counter stealth …. didn’t actually read the previous post.

That is correct, there are no direct counters to stealth (or true counters as mentioned in the previous post). Once the person is in stealth there is nothing you can do but wait for it to end or for them to attack and land a hit.

I don’t understand why you thieves have such a hard time understanding the simplest of things. Everything else in this game can be interrupted or dodged before and then have another option for you to handle it after the fact.

---

If someone stuns you, you have a stun breaker.

---

Some one puts a condition on you, you have condition removal.

---

Someone blocks, you can use unblock-able skills.

---

Someone heals, you can put poison on them and keep it on them.

---

Someone stealths…. well then you just have to wait for it to wear off or be hit.

There is only one other state in this game that doesn’t have a “direct” counter. That would be invulnerability, but no class can access this state every 4 seconds.

Interrupting is a soft counter to many things. But interrupts are no where near as available as stealth is to a Thief.

Being a better player and dodging the CnD isn’t a direct counter. A direct counter is like the list of things above. I can easily dodge most of these horrible thieves CnD and backstabs but the very nature of the stealth in this game is so forgiving it doesn’t matter if I dodge 5 of them. They will always be off cooldown and ready to go. You have 0 draw backs for using stealth, but you have a ridiculously huge amount of payoffs for using this cheap system. It takes 0 skill to stealth around and have 100% of the control of the fight in his game.

Only the ones who are to bad to understand that this stealth is hurting this game and lowering the skill bar like it this way. You are not being skillful when you vanish in thin air every 4 seconds and run away.

It’s noted in here that the counter to stealth is invulnerability, but you can’t go invulnerable every 4 seconds.

If a hammer warrior CCs you, you can’t use your stun breaker/stability every 8 seconds.

If a necro puts a condition on you, you can’t use your condition removal every 2 seconds.

If a guardian is blocking, you can’t use unblockable attacks every 5 seconds

etc…

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

The thief definitely was running glass. Condi engi running very few bonus health items.

However this is an Engi complaining about thief?

And I can tell you that he critted CnD and that HS. Failed the stab, and managed a kill by heartseeker. ~1/3 of the damage dealt is from a gap-closing skill which can stealth (this thief was running D/D though), which frankly does just a little bit too much damage.

I do wonder, though. Why did you let him get off all of these hits? As an engi you shouldn’t be having much trouble with melee-range squishies which have little condi removal and low health. You chased him down with a pistol is all I got from the combat log meanwhile you have a ton of other skills at your disposal which could have easily shut him down.

Frankly if you wanna talk about DPS, thief isn’t the best. Axe warrior does better burst, and eles have the best DPS in the entire game of all classes.

Question of the topic was, why people think thieves are OP. I posted Screen showing why. Sure probably fgs ele can do best PvE damage on his own, but on WvW it’s nothing more than free kill. On the other hand theres cannony thief which isn’t, due stealth.
I would consider myself as good player, but there’s not much you can do when your health drops from 19k (including WvW bonus not shown on stats) to about 5-6k in 3hit chain with BV. My first call was to heal it up which frankly, I did pretty well (thief did 33.2k hp damage on my 19k hp so think how fast I healed up with everything possible I had). I was already fighting and seen thief on his way, so I was prepared to get my hp downed by a little (or apparently not, lol). Idk how could I possibly react. Everything is smooth in theory, but good luck surviving that.

Vanthian.9267:

Karolis.4261:

Can’t counter stealth …. didn’t actually read the previous post.

That is correct, there are no direct counters to stealth (or true counters as mentioned in the previous post). Once the person is in stealth there is nothing you can do but wait for it to end or for them to attack and land a hit.

I don’t understand why you thieves have such a hard time understanding the simplest of things. Everything else in this game can be interrupted or dodged before and then have another option for you to handle it after the fact.

---

If someone stuns you, you have a stun breaker.

---

Some one puts a condition on you, you have condition removal.

---

Someone blocks, you can use unblock-able skills.

---

Someone heals, you can put poison on them and keep it on them.

---

Someone stealths…. well then you just have to wait for it to wear off or be hit.

There is only one other state in this game that doesn’t have a “direct” counter. That would be invulnerability, but no class can access this state every 4 seconds.

Interrupting is a soft counter to many things. But interrupts are no where near as available as stealth is to a Thief.

Being a better player and dodging the CnD isn’t a direct counter. A direct counter is like the list of things above. I can easily dodge most of these horrible thieves CnD and backstabs but the very nature of the stealth in this game is so forgiving it doesn’t matter if I dodge 5 of them. They will always be off cooldown and ready to go. You have 0 draw backs for using stealth, but you have a ridiculously huge amount of payoffs for using this cheap system. It takes 0 skill to stealth around and have 100% of the control of the fight in his game.

Only the ones who are to bad to understand that this stealth is hurting this game and lowering the skill bar like it this way. You are not being skillful when you vanish in thin air every 4 seconds and run away.

there are several direct c ounters to stealth. what are you talking about?

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

The thief definitely was running glass. Condi engi running very few bonus health items.

However this is an Engi complaining about thief?

And I can tell you that he critted CnD and that HS. Failed the stab, and managed a kill by heartseeker. ~1/3 of the damage dealt is from a gap-closing skill which can stealth (this thief was running D/D though), which frankly does just a little bit too much damage.

I do wonder, though. Why did you let him get off all of these hits? As an engi you shouldn’t be having much trouble with melee-range squishies which have little condi removal and low health. You chased him down with a pistol is all I got from the combat log meanwhile you have a ton of other skills at your disposal which could have easily shut him down.

Frankly if you wanna talk about DPS, thief isn’t the best. Axe warrior does better burst, and eles have the best DPS in the entire game of all classes.

Question of the topic was, why people think thieves are OP. I posted Screen showing why. Sure probably fgs ele can do best PvE damage on his own, but on WvW it’s nothing more than free kill. On the other hand theres cannony thief which isn’t, due stealth.
I would consider myself as good player, but there’s not much you can do when your health drops from 19k (including WvW bonus not shown on stats) to about 5-6k in 3hit chain with BV. My first call was to heal it up which frankly, I did pretty well (thief did 33.2k hp damage on my 19k hp so think how fast I healed up with everything possible I had). I was already fighting and seen thief on his way, so I was prepared to get my hp downed by a little (or apparently not, lol). Idk how could I possibly react. Everything is smooth in theory, but good luck surviving that.

i never lose to thief on my other classes. findthem annoying at best. then again i main thief 99% of the time and thats a little to do with it but still. you cant CND for 6500 if ur target is tanky….unless its nighttime with night rune (10%) you are under 25% hp with the traits that boost dmg under X% hp and have scholar runes and have awesome food up along with 90% or more HP and stacks of bloodlust with some nice might stacks too. but i guess thats all the perfect setup thing that we always talk about on thief forums.

thief dmg is fine. actually i think they should un-nerf mug… a little atleast. thief dmg is high but it comes at a cost. MORE so than any other class. other classes can compare in dmg burst without the sacrifices thieves make and much easier too. some like ele can do it at range! not a really fair thing to say about thieves when you are more experienced.

Vanthian.9267:

Karolis.4261:

Can’t counter stealth …. didn’t actually read the previous post.

That is correct, there are no direct counters to stealth (or true counters as mentioned in the previous post).
…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_'Em%22

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

Also was this in WvW? Did the thief have might stacks?

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

Shockwave.1230:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

Also was this in WvW? Did the thief have might stacks?

Yes and yes. Thief is likely 20+/30/x/x/x in berserker’s gear running a signet build, and likely TotC for 11-16 (possibly even 21 but unlikely) might stacks to get his damage that high. You can’t get those damage values in sPvP regardless of what your build is due to the crit damage cap being half of what it is in WvW, and 9k HS is exclusive to WvW berserker status with ~120% crit damage against that armor value.

It seems all the decent people truly have left this game to rot with its horrible systems. Simple systems seem to elude the vast majority of what is left in this game (including developers). Time to pack up and leave yet again and wait for another failed patch to pull through and watch the game I had such high hopes for sink ever lower.

It is both sad and amusing that all the great players left and voiced their opinions to change this horrible system along with others (dumping adrenaline on miss, block, etc., micro controls for pets, among other great suggestions) while the developers just kept on milking that cash shop. What is worse still is some of you people actually think that stealth in this game is fine along with attacking from stealth not revealing on a block/miss.

I couldn’t imagine what would happen if League of Legends or any other decent pvp centric game (which Guild Wars 2 was marketed as) launched a patch with such hand holding systems in place. Enjoy your stealth and continue to misplace skill with a broken system.

It makes more sense to just have revealed take place after the end of the first stealth skill’s duration to prevent stacking and to also have it go into effect at the end of stealth even if a skill is not used rather than having it apply on block/miss. Frankly, Aegis and blinds are so easily available on top of all of thewars that run shields for tanking everything that stab thief would be borderline unplayable and wouldn’t actually solve a large number of complaints targeted at thieves’ potential to so easily burst down squishy characters, especially ones using mug/BV.

Permastealth/stealth spamming is definitely a problem, but it’s not unique to thieves, so simply having revealed take effect if a thief whiffs a hit doesn’t necessarily solve the inherent problem with permastealth. PU mesmers, one of the most overpowered builds in WvW,does not even need to actually attack or leave stealth at all to deal its damage.

Having no backbone but being designed in a way that doesn’t allow for one, that would be my best bet.

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

Vanthian.9267:

It seems all the decent people truly have left this game to rot with its horrible systems. Simple systems seem to elude the vast majority of what is left in this game (including developers). Time to pack up and leave yet again and wait for another failed patch to pull through and watch the game I had such high hopes for sink ever lower.

It is both sad and amusing that all the great players left and voiced their opinions to change this horrible system along with others (dumping adrenaline on miss, block, etc., micro controls for pets, among other great suggestions) while the developers just kept on milking that cash shop. What is worse still is some of you people actually think that stealth in this game is fine along with attacking from stealth not revealing on a block/miss.

I couldn’t imagine what would happen if League of Legends or any other decent pvp centric game (which Guild Wars 2 was marketed as) launched a patch with such hand holding systems in place. Enjoy your stealth and continue to misplace skill with a broken system.

they tried making a game to please everyone…. young….old….boy…girl….nerd….jock…. everyone. they over-reached with their goals and came up way short in everyway. still the best MMORPG available….for the moment.

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Lets talk about WvW,

I don’t have a 80 lvl thief, my highest lvl thief was 40 lvl and I leveled her on WvW. I don’t know anything 1v1 situations with thief and which build would do good or bad. But there is one thing i can say: If a thief decides to run away, no one can stop them. You can’t even imagine how many hammer warriors or mesmers i dodged on WvW. Thief has the option to run away more than any other class.

Now, this is OP. But by OP, I don’t mean Thief is godly or needs any nerf. There are other classes who don’t have the same flexibility of engaging or disengaging with enemy and I can actually empathize other players who can’t catch a low level thief for 15 minutes.

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

He seems to have found a way to deal with thieves… So yeah… don’t know how else to put it, aside from practice makes perfect?

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

Wow, he tries to give you advise and you continue with your ignorance.

Believe it or not – I don’t need advices.
Just posted my two coppers on why I think thieves are out of balance.
Pure ignorance is saying “thieves are fine, easy to counter, all you have to do is…”

Lert.6287:

Believe it or not – I don’t need advices.
Just posted my two coppers on why I think thieves are out of balance.
Pure ignorance is saying “thieves are fine, easy to counter, all you have to do is…”

Best of luck to you out there.

There is no way that theif was hitting that kitten CnD without food buffs/wvw buffs/might stacks. It’s clearly a l2p issue as well, I have 0 issues 1v1 roaming with my engi doesnt really matter the class and I am far from a good engi. I think you just got caught off balance by a Signet burst theif tbh, which is fine.. it happens from time to time but thats no reason to cry teefopnerfplox. Wvw is a game mode, that thrives on either giant zergballs with strength in numbers, small organized groups, or roamers. Roamers either go tanky, or they go glassy and hit hard and get away.. that just so happens to be the ONLY niche that a theif can fulfill in this game right now. It’s not hard to constantly keep your head on a swivel, you should be able to see the theif coming and if he is popping sigs and gaining might you better prepare for insane dmg inc, survive for 5-8 seconds and you are golden.

Lert.6287:

Believe it or not – I don’t need advices.
Just posted my two coppers on why I think thieves are out of balance.
Pure ignorance is saying “thieves are fine, easy to counter, all you have to do is…”

Your logic hinges on the idea that you should be just as viable not fighting back as you should be if you were fighting back. Otherwise, how does that show that thieves are out of balance?

If thief isn’t OP, then how me, a dog, learn English?
Checkmate atheists.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

If thief isn’t OP, then how me, a dog, learn English?
Checkmate atheists.

If you truly learned English you would have said, “If thief isn’t OP, then how does myself, a member of the canine genus, learn English?”

Game. Set. Match.

Viking Jorun.5413:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

If thief isn’t OP, then how me, a dog, learn English?
Checkmate atheists.

If you truly learned English you would have said, “If thief isn’t OP, then how does myself, a member of the canine genus, learn English?”

Game. Set. Match.

And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for you meddling kids!

Lert.6287:

Believe it or not – I don’t need advices.
Just posted my two coppers on why I think thieves are out of balance.
Pure ignorance is saying “thieves are fine, easy to counter, all you have to do is…”

Ignorance would be a few being blinded by the truth, what you have here is a bunch of people who say thief can be countered, and you closing your eyes saying “lalalallalalalalalalalalalalala I can’t hear you!”. It ain’t op if it can be countered by everyone, just not everyone has the will to L2P and ask questions. I highly doubt that thief had 0 power bonuses(might, bloodlust, signet, food) when he jumped you, or your posted defensive stats are just a terrible joke of copy/paste.

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

when players cant comprehend why you have a hard time playing against a thief…. yes….yes it very much IS a learn to play issue. would u care for me to demonstrate against YOU in a video and have me post it here?

Yeah, I recall the last bit of the most recent Ready Up vid. You know the one where the Thief 1v2 because of interrupt and blind spam and teleports. As for you Travlane, weapon switch to short bow and AA till you exhaust cds and #3 dodge when needed and AoE your Supply Crate (which is the only thing the thief needs to worry about).

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

when players cant comprehend why you have a hard time playing against a thief…. yes….yes it very much IS a learn to play issue. would u care for me to demonstrate against YOU in a video and have me post it here?

I’m waiting.

Jelzouki.4128:

Why does everyone think we’re OP?

Because when you go on youtube and type Thief vs Zerg you see things no other profession can pull off.