Guild Wars 2

Kolly.9872:

Man quit the game please because obviously this is not the game for you or just you can go out there with a thief and try to kill a lvl 80 warrior that actually uses some brain… then come here and ask for a warrior nerf!!!
This is not the game where warriors can tank better than any other class and at the same time outdps every other class while standing right in the same place for the Whole fight, having a dedicated healer covering their butts.

Exactly what you say here…
“This is not the game where warriors can tank better than any other class”

So why do we even have heavy armor.. if there is no difference…

LOL someone at Anet playing a THIEF, you mean a THIEF?

Where did you hear that Legend from?

eldain stenlund.4306:

So why do we even have heavy armor.. if there is no difference…

There is a difference. Its just not imposed and impossible to overcome.

A light or medium armor user can achieve 3k armor, but not as easy as a heavy armor user.

And “tanking” in this game (in a sense of surviving dmg) is not only about the armor rating. Its about boons and other defense skills also.

Nerf damage builds! Make it so everyone is running a bunker and nobody can kill one another without overwhelming numbers! Yeah, that’d be such an amazing fun game!

Yes, sarcasm.

I wish I knew what server the OP was on, just on the hope that his tears were the result of me insta-gibbing him.

Blood makes the grass grow. Tears make cookies.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Exactly what you say here…
“This is not the game where warriors can tank better than any other class”

So why do we even have heavy armor.. if there is no difference…

LOL mate, why do you read only the first part of my statement?
I also said “…and at the same time outdps every other class while standing right in the same place for the Whole fight, having a dedicated healer covering their butts”.
If you think that you can simply tank in this game without doing anything else, just standing under the protection of your armor, well you’re terribily wrong.
In this game there are a lot of ways to avoid dmg: dodge, invulnerability, blocks, while vitality and thoughness can help to mitigate it.
The advantage of the warrior is that he can start from an higher value in those stats but without dedicated healers if you think you can just survive without using anything else, you’re wrong!!
The difference between a good and a bad player is only here: a good player knows when and how to use his skills for avoiding the dmg, a bad player will stand there pressing buttons without any logic.
And you man still belong to the bad players side.
Only when you will learn how to properly counter thieves, you will understand what me and many other people here are trying to tell you.
And if you didn’t notice I left out Stealth abilites from the avoiding damage abilities, because going stealth doesn’t mean avoiding damage at all!!!
think about it

Take this from someone who mains a warrior, L2P.

This is the dumbest crap I have ever read, how can you run a warrior and lose to a thief?

The air is thick with your shame.

Yocairo.4257:

I…don’t even. Eldain, you didn’t disprove my point, you proved it. I too mained a rogue, they have been OP since vanilla. It is very easy to identify a bad rogue, just like it is with thieves. The bad rogues would pop all their cd’s and prep in the start and fall like a brick right after.

You claim rogues were balanced, well my friend rogues have been one shotting players since the beginning of wow, and yes this is literal. Ambush was the fotm in vanilla to gank. In tbc they remained top tier. In wotlk they got dumbed down with mutilate. In Cata it was a giant joke with vial critting for 80k and killing people in the first 2 seconds of cheap shot. Warrior’s were the fotm end season because they scale well with gear. DK’s have been the most skilless class around, S5 dk’s that got glad were often worse than 1200 rated other classes.

Alright back to GW2. I fully agree the combo backstab>stealth>repeat is OP. It’s annoying as hell, even for me. It would be simple to shift away from this by nerfing zerker gear altogether, it’s just OP. People shouldn’t be penalized for running with some vit and toughness.
But that being said, a large part is still skill based, namely avoiding the backstabs in the first place and knowing how thieves think!

Also, the backstab thief is a one pony trick, and that is roaming. They will never ever be able to kill you in groups! they can down you at most. You don’t hear me whining 4 warrior+1 mesmer is the current meta in pve. Because yes, in pve warrior is S-tier!

I did some serious opening dmg in wow as pvp rogue.. true. but after the opening.. i had to face my opponents on their terms…

But if you remember, the good ones was using pvp gear… (logical).
And that gear nerfed our dmg alot… and i dont mind that it did.
they sacrificed abit dmg.. (not much). to get pvp focused. as it should.

We can not get pvp geared in GW2… with out nerfing our dmg to rock bottom at the same time… and if we do that, we pose no threat against anything, not even a critter.

This mmorpg may be A-nets first big game.
But seriously… dont they think ahead ??

“buff thief dmg more”.
“but, thieves can already 1 hit light armor from invisibility”.
“buff more”…
“should we increase the armor on everyone also to compensate for this pve buff ??”
“no, just buff more dmg”.

I dont see how they can have a problem on balancing pve and pvp.
some say its impossible… i say its realy easy.

you balance for pvp first.
every skill, dmg, armor… everything. untill you see the dmg you want.
and THEN you addjust the settings in pve.

Some classes only get buffs and buffs and buffs… creating massive imbalance
where some classes have ability to 1 hit others, while others cant do half that dmg.

not having trinity, is only giving a-net a hell of a lot more impossibleness (nice word).
to balance everything… and it will eventually sink this game…
How can you justify a light armor class having the same armor defense as one using heavy armor… ??
How can you justify my 1 handed weapon doing more dmg than my Great sword…??

having an E-sport… with no trinity… totaly imbalanced classes…
ye, good luck with that.

Actually, Thieves have only been nerfed since release. You probably don’t realise but Thieves have had more nerfs to them then any other classes combined.

There’s only one class I’d deem OP, and that’s Mesmers, but thats a complex argument, its not as silly as “Herpadurr too much dmg durr”

eldain stenlund.4306:

Elthurien.8356:

How does a warrior get 20k vitality. You seriously need some Pvt gear if you want to compete in WvW. My Thief has 23k health, 3k armour and 2.2k power when I’m running Pvt. You’re obviously not running any vitality gear and not enough toughness for WvW. You deserve to get nuked by a glass cannon.

once again… we have a zombie…

I used to run 24 k hp and about 2.8 k armor. (i wanted to have atleast some dmg left).
what happend ?? i got 3 hitted by a thief…

vitality + thoughness doesnt help for schit…
but since your a zombie… you dont understand that…

and once again you have proven to us with your stats that having heavy armor doesnt count for schit either…

You have more armor than me… with your thief… than my warrior in heavy armor…
is it me.. or is something very very wrong here…

Heavy armor should always have more defense than light…
no matter how much thoughness or vitality you get on light.
you know.. metal vs leather/cloth……. metal always win.

OR have you seen spaceships made of whool or leather ???

But, we will never see any change to armor or thieves.
unless A-net starts to play other classes than thieves and mesmers…
wich they wont.

Have you ever seen a knight in heavy armor should run, or even do somersaults? I do not.

Deathspike.1870:

Nerf damage builds! Make it so everyone is running a bunker and nobody can kill one another without overwhelming numbers! Yeah, that’d be such an amazing fun game!

Yes, sarcasm.

seem to work for wow with pvp gear.

pvp people are a hell of a lot harder to kill.
And still they pose a realy threat in dmg.

Wow have different armor classes. and it works just fine.
cloth staying at low armor.. heavy staying at high armor.
they can never reach eachother, no matter how you gear.
And yet its working just fine…

and iam not mentioning a pocket healer.
Most of the time you run solo. (its more fun, and takes more skills).

Wow have been out for many years now…
Iam surpriced A-net havent learned anything from it.

eldain stenlund.4306:

How can you justify a light armor class having the same armor defense as one using heavy armor… ??

a thief having the same armor of a warrior will surely end in the warrior having a much higher damage of the thief.
I hope I don’t have to explain to you that a thief will sacrifice a lot of damage for thoughtness, do I?
By the way if you prefer games where healers could save your butt while you just was smashing buttons and dealing damage, well it’s plenty of those game out there. GW2 is different, l2p or leave.

Evilek

“Have you ever seen a knight in heavy armor should run, or even do somersaults? I do not.”

doing flips and stunts… to avoid a knife ?? why should they. you wont penetrate their armor anyways.

If you wanted to kill a knight, you had to use a heavy crossbow. (easiest, least risk).

But the fun part… when they realised crossbows could penetrate and kill.
they made thicker armors..
Some armors could even withstand the early rifles and guns……

and you want to flipp around for a knife ???

Kolly.9872:

eldain stenlund.4306:

How can you justify a light armor class having the same armor defense as one using heavy armor… ??

a thief having the same armor of a warrior will surely end in the warrior having a much higher damage of the thief.
I hope I don’t have to explain to you that a thief will sacrifice a lot of damage for thoughtness, do I?
By the way if you prefer games where healers could save your butt while you just was smashing buttons and dealing damage, well it’s plenty of those game out there. GW2 is different, l2p or leave.

I never played pvp with healers.
but the games i played was more balanced. and armors worked as they should.

eldain stenlund.4306:

doing flips and stunts… to avoid a knife ?? why should they. you wont penetrate their armor anyways.

Easiest way to kill a heavy plated warrior is by using a knife in an ambush. There are always places where the armour isn’t protecting (axillary opening for example). The neck is also a very open place.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Not only with thief. They need to nerf the damage to classes, skills with low risk/high reward. Someday they will do it.

The game has been out for almost a year…
They seem to put more focus on events n’stuff rather than balancing the game.

If it hasn’t been done till now, it won’t happen.

Yea the thief needs to be balanced….so that it’s not dead last in the rankings for WvW.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

The difference is that they had a stealth for 3-4 sec with trait and in wow infinity.

I whouldnt mind thieves having infinite stealth.
If they nerf their insane burst, and give classes ways to reveal it, and reduced their movement speed in stealth.

But if thieves have infinite stealth.. they should only have 1 skill to vanish, with CD…

Right now. stealth is supreeme king in pvp.. wvw. untouchable.

supreme king in pvp? There are virtually no stealth based thieves in high level pvp because you can’t cap/contest a point while stealthed. There are a few people in tpvp playing thieves using a very difficult to master, evasion based build. For the most part, in tPvP thieves are almost as useless as warriors. maybe you encountered some stealthy thieves in hotjoin, but it really is not as useful a build as almost any other in that setting.

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

bobross.5034:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

The difference is that they had a stealth for 3-4 sec with trait and in wow infinity.

I whouldnt mind thieves having infinite stealth.
If they nerf their insane burst, and give classes ways to reveal it, and reduced their movement speed in stealth.

But if thieves have infinite stealth.. they should only have 1 skill to vanish, with CD…

Right now. stealth is supreeme king in pvp.. wvw. untouchable.

supreme king in pvp? There are virtually no stealth based thieves in high level pvp because you can’t cap/contest a point while stealthed. There are a few people in tpvp playing thieves using a very difficult to master, evasion based build. For the most part, in tPvP thieves are almost as useless as warriors. maybe you encountered some stealthy thieves in hotjoin, but it really is not as useful a build as almost any other in that setting.

So because they might be harder to play in Tourney pvp, they should get even stronger opening bursts ??

What they need to do is remove the difference from wvw and Tourney pvp.
Use your own gear…

or maybe if they feel thieves are Low in pve..
Maybe they should make a special Pve room also… just like tpvp have the mist.

Balancing isnt very hard to do… it just takes abit time and alot of nerves…
Because you have to set up 1 class vs another.. with maximum gear.
See what numbers you get… adjust it untill you feel its alright to use in an online setting.

Giving 1 class supreeme stealth.. Wich nothing can break or detect thru.
and also giving them insane opening burst dmg, so they are able to REALY 1 hit
other players, we have numbers, pitcures and videos showing this is true…
and then still say: l2p.

Its better to reduce thieves stealthyness, and give them more durability, and aswell tone down their dmg. give them other tools than just stealths.

you have to be braindead to not see that something is wrong…

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

To see a thief: First open your eyes and use the camera (while you move)

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

I had a thief player in my guild.. a very good one.

He totaly amazed me one day in wvw.

I was running in the zerg with my warrior.
We were at the top of the ogre camp, and we saw an enemy far far far far down
at the bottom.. running away from us.

What happend next was just realy totaly insane.

Our thief, actually downed and kill that runner in less than 3 seconds…
I couldnt belive what i just saw… i was laughing so hard… it couldnt be true.

From top of the ogre hill camp (with the ogre npcs)…
and swooosh… the thief jumped and shadowstepped and what not.
to catch this runner… about 900-1200 range from the supply camp npcs…
its about that range from the npcs.. as i could shoot at them with my rifle when i finaly got down there… still laughing…

Now, this is a realy far distance.
and it took like 3 seconds to get down there and insta kill that poor runner.

Insane ??? totaly.

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

eldain stenlund.4306:

I had a thief player in my guild.. a very good one.

He totaly amazed me one day in wvw.

I was running in the zerg with my warrior.
We were at the top of the ogre camp, and we saw an enemy far far far far down
at the bottom.. running away from us.

What happend next was just realy totaly insane.

Our thief, actually downed and kill that runner in less than 3 seconds…
I couldnt belive what i just saw… i was laughing so hard… it couldnt be true.

From top of the ogre hill camp (with the ogre npcs)…
and swooosh… the thief jumped and shadowstepped and what not.
to catch this runner… about 900-1200 range from the supply camp npcs…
its about that range from the npcs.. as i could shoot at them with my rifle when i finaly got down there… still laughing…

Now, this is a realy far distance.
and it took like 3 seconds to get down there and insta kill that poor runner.

Insane ??? totaly.

Nice story bro. I see warrior with single 100b kill 3 peoplem. OP ? Nope ,only noobs enemy.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Enemy 2000 Power weapon damage 1010 skill coe 1.
2000×1010×1=2020000/your armor
Your armor x Enemy dmg
1000 × 2020
1200 × 1683
1400 × 1442
1600 × 1262
1800 × 1122
2000 × 1010
2200 × 918
Armor=Power when the weapon skill coefficient is “1”.
When someone attack you with 2,000 power and your armor is 2,000, => enemy power is 0

Toughness is very powerfull atribut.
Vit+Toughness > power,crit dmg

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Enemy 2000 Power weapon damage 1010 skill coe 1.
2000×1010×1=2020000/your armor
Your armor x Enemy dmg
1000 × 2020
1200 × 1683
1400 × 1442
1600 × 1262
1800 × 1122
2000 × 1010
2200 × 918
Armor=Power when the weapon skill coefficient is “1”.
When someone attack you with 2,000 power and your armor is 2,000, => enemy power is 0

Toughness is very powerfull atribut.
Vit+Toughness > power,crit dmg

I usualy have 2.5 k armor.
And iam using the heavy armor since iam a warrior.

Thieves can have more than me…

Logic just got lost…

Evilek.5690:

Nice story bro. I see warrior with single 100b kill 3 peoplem. OP ? Nope ,only noobs enemy.

100 blade is a crap skill. and should be replaced.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Enemy 2000 Power weapon damage 1010 skill coe 1.
2000×1010×1=2020000/your armor
Your armor x Enemy dmg
1000 × 2020
1200 × 1683
1400 × 1442
1600 × 1262
1800 × 1122
2000 × 1010
2200 × 918
Armor=Power when the weapon skill coefficient is “1”.
When someone attack you with 2,000 power and your armor is 2,000, => enemy power is 0

Toughness is very powerfull atribut.
Vit+Toughness > power,crit dmg

I usualy have 2.5 k armor.
And iam using the heavy armor since iam a warrior.

Thieves can have more than me…

Logic just got lost…

Me Thief 2650 armor,you have 2500 with heavy armor = you are glass cannon,this is only your fail

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Enemy 2000 Power weapon damage 1010 skill coe 1.
2000×1010×1=2020000/your armor
Your armor x Enemy dmg
1000 × 2020
1200 × 1683
1400 × 1442
1600 × 1262
1800 × 1122
2000 × 1010
2200 × 918
Armor=Power when the weapon skill coefficient is “1”.
When someone attack you with 2,000 power and your armor is 2,000, => enemy power is 0

Toughness is very powerfull atribut.
Vit+Toughness > power,crit dmg

I usualy have 2.5 k armor.
And iam using the heavy armor since iam a warrior.

Thieves can have more than me…

Logic just got lost…

Me Thief 2650 armor,you have 2500 with heavy armor = you are glass cannon,this is only your fail

I should naturaly have higher armor no matter how you gear…
I have heavy metal. you have light leather.
you shouldnt even come close to begin with.

But in GW2. thieves have more armor that warriors or guardians…
the stupidity of these designers is awesome.

A thief that traits/gears for pure defense will have higher armor than a warrior that traits/gears for pure offense.

A thief that traits/gears for pure offense will have lower armor than a warrior that traits/gears for pure offense.

Meanwhile, a warrior that traits/gears for pure defense will have higher armor than a thief that traits/gears for pure defense, due to the innate bonus from heavy armor.

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. You’re attempting to apply RP/classic trinity rules to a system that prioritizes player choice over predetermined class roles, or at least tries to. A player that chooses to gear themselves defensively should have higher defensive stats than a player that chooses to gear offensively, regardless of armor class.

nahj.2870:

A thief that traits/gears for pure defense will have higher armor than a warrior that traits/gears for pure offense.

A thief that traits/gears for pure offense will have lower armor than a warrior that traits/gears for pure offense.

Meanwhile, a warrior that traits/gears for pure defense will have higher armor than a thief that traits/gears for pure defense, due to the innate bonus from heavy armor.

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. You’re attempting to apply RP/classic trinity rules to a system that’s about prioritizes player choice over predetermined class roles, or at least tries to. A player that chooses to gear themselves defensively should have higher defensive stats than a player that chooses to gear offensively, regardless of armor class.

+ 200 Toughness vs Medium armor and many + armor or reduce DMG traits and utilities.

eldain stenlund.4306:

you have 1200 toughness

less then 2500 armor..

that is why you’re getting hit hard.

Don’t get me wrong, berserker thieves are going to hit you hard…But you’re getting crushed because you’re glass cannon just the same.

You need to get off the notion that just because you’re in heavy armor..It means you’re impossible to kill

If you get tanky, you still die. just takes 4 seconds instead of 2.
But you cant do crap against thief either in tank… so your just becoming a free kill.

Heavy armor should have naturaly High physical resist.
Have you ever tried to use a knife against a plate armor ?? i have, just for the fun of it.
And trust me.. i didnt even dent the kitten crap when i stabbed it or slized at it.

Heavy armor… is the totaly Anti knife armor. hell its even anti sword to some degree.

If you want a similar test.. just take a 2 mm thick metal sheet… then take a knife.. and stabb away all you like.. you never gonna hurt the metal.

You do know that some swords and daggers were made to pierce armors with a thrust instead of a slash right? Also considering that most thieves are probaly trained in the arts of backstabbing lorewise, i dont think it would be that hard for them to find gaps and other weakpoints in heavy armor.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Evilek.5690:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Daecollo.9578:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Zacchary.6183:

There is counter to 12-28k backstabs…. called moving.

you have to see the thief first…
And you have to hope they dont have their shadowstep…

And you think its fair to have what you say… 28 k invisible stab openings ???

Thief wouldn’t waste there escape tool to attack you.

The damage is only 814, that isn’t very much if you stack a lot of toughness.

If you never want to be 1 shot by anything, get runes of the svanir+become invincible at 25% life.

if you really hate thieves, play guardian and faceroll protection, damage reduction.

and your on with this thoughness again…

it doesnt help.. i have already tried that.. and other people have had even more thoughness and vitality than me.. and still died in seconds.

Either thieves have a bug on their stab skill, bypassing armors.
or
Armors have a very early and very strong diminishing return.
Wich makes you think that 3.5 k armor sounds alot, but might in reality be worth schit.

or it could be both…

or maybe iam just very very unlucky to face very lucky high critting thieves ??
(strange tho since other also report the same thing as i do)…

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Enemy 2000 Power weapon damage 1010 skill coe 1.
2000×1010×1=2020000/your armor
Your armor x Enemy dmg
1000 × 2020
1200 × 1683
1400 × 1442
1600 × 1262
1800 × 1122
2000 × 1010
2200 × 918
Armor=Power when the weapon skill coefficient is “1”.
When someone attack you with 2,000 power and your armor is 2,000, => enemy power is 0

Toughness is very powerfull atribut.
Vit+Toughness > power,crit dmg

I usualy have 2.5 k armor.
And iam using the heavy armor since iam a warrior.

Thieves can have more than me…

Logic just got lost…

Me Thief 2650 armor,you have 2500 with heavy armor = you are glass cannon,this is only your fail

I should naturaly have higher armor no matter how you gear…
I have heavy metal. you have light leather.
you shouldnt even come close to begin with.

But in GW2. thieves have more armor that warriors or guardians…
the stupidity of these designers is awesome.

Welcome to a fantasy world, attached are the front and back of one of your ‘heavy metal’ armor sets. I see no shortage of places to put a dagger

nahj.2870:

A thief that traits/gears for pure defense will have higher armor than a warrior that traits/gears for pure offense.

A thief that traits/gears for pure offense will have lower armor than a warrior that traits/gears for pure offense.

Meanwhile, a warrior that traits/gears for pure defense will have higher armor than a thief that traits/gears for pure defense, due to the innate bonus from heavy armor.

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. You’re attempting to apply RP/classic trinity rules to a system that prioritizes player choice over predetermined class roles, or at least tries to. A player that chooses to gear themselves defensively should have higher defensive stats than a player that chooses to gear offensively, regardless of armor class.

wich in turn makes armor classes useless to have overall.

just give us all.. “armor”.

They hate trinity.. dps – healing – tank speciality.
And yet they have classes to fullfill those criterias…

And since they dont want trinity, but still balance for it…
The game gets imbalanced. (pretty logical).

And the result is people gets kitten ed of.

A-net should realy make up their mind.

Heavy armor vs light armor or even medium.
heavy armor should always win in naturaly higher defense..
no matter how you gear the other two.
This is pure logic… trinity or not.

eldain stenlund.4306:

I should naturaly have higher armor no matter how you gear…

Good show, great entertainment.

Or, wait, you weren’t serious, were you?

omg omg i got 35k backstab on my lvl 10 guardian in wvw naked !….
smells like OP, plz nerf, 10x

Yocairo.4257:

I’m sorry but I couldn’t hold my laughter. It is very obvious this guy is a former wow player, trying to apply those mechanics in gw2. I imagine him as a backpedaling, greatsword swinging zerker himself. He most likely played a roflstorm warrior. He’s clearly kitten because a “Rouge” as he’d call it, trolled him and he’s yet to improve as a warrior to /laugh and kill that Thief the moment he unstealths.

“Yuo guise pl0x stop hitting me in teh back cuz I no turn so fast with me keyboard”

I’ve played wow for 5 years at least and rogues were always OP, yes I mained one for a long time as well. They had a low skill entry and high skill cap. Hell be glad thieves aren’t the evasion, CloS ing, vanishing, prepping, immortal things rogues were.

The thief community did it’s thing once more, pick out the bad apple. If people have such a problem vs BS thieves, why not test and improve instead of yelling every thief is OP. I am a thief, and I can avoid backstabs 50% of the time.

What also cracks me up is that he is asking for extra armor “because real life”. I’d be fine with that if you moved at 25% speed of other classes!

HAHAHAHAHAHA rogues in WOW OP!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA this is hilarious i cant stop hahahahahaha!

You know what is OP, to go in stealth every time you want without any penalty, go into stealth any time in combat and not getting out of stealth if you get hit or if your attack its blocked, you know whakittens more OP?, the ability to OHKO someone from stealth, NOW THIS IS OP.

In WOW you cant do that, NEVER, its not possible, rogues were the less populated class because they were very hard to play, specially because the armor thickness in WOW mattered, it was not the same to wear leather, tha to wear plate, it was not the same to have 2 daggers than a 2 handed weapon, the rogue was in a dissadvantage there, HERE, thieves dagger attacks does more damage than a 2 handed weapon, the armor in this game is not really that importat as it was in WOW.

Now , rogues cant stealth anytime in combat unless they used vanish wich was 2 min cool down with talent points, or blind you then try to stealth themselves, if during stealth they got hit, they were revealed no matter what, same if you failed an attack from stealth, there is no way, it never happened, they would OHKO someone from stealth, their more offensive ability from stealth “ambush” roughly did damage an even less if you were wearing plate, rogues in wow were pretty well balanced and clearly only good players had the ability to kill the real OP classes.

Thieves in GW2 are just a joke, really if they were under the mechanics of WOW 95% of them will reroll another class.

I don’t understand OP. Would you please clarify?

1- You want warr doing more burst than thief (or at least the same), since warrior already has more DPS than thief.

2- You want a glass cannon warr to have more toughness/armor than defensive specced thief (untraited and with the same prefix/socket armor warr already has more armor)

Are those correct? Then, why would ANYONE play thief? Warr has god tier life (vs bottom tier on thief), has more DPS, more party utility, and more life. You ALSO want even more armor and more burst?

Jeeze! 4 Pages?

Seriously guys, stop feeding this troll. He failed to defend himself and he paid for it so let’s move on.

He has nothing more to add into the conversation other than his own fantasy that his heavy armor suppose to protect him when even looking back in history, a lot of heavily armored soldiers had died in battle not because of back stab damage, but due to exhaustion and dehydration.

So if this troll wants to use reality, then he should not play this game, because in GW2, Thieves will kill you fully armored or not.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jeeze! 4 Pages?

in GW2, Thieves will kill you fully armored or not.

Pretty much this, thieves are OP, thanx for your contribution.

Wharrgarbl.9263:

I don’t understand OP. Would you please clarify?

1- You want warr doing more burst than thief (or at least the same), since warrior already has more DPS than thief.

2- You want a glass cannon warr to have more toughness/armor than defensive specced thief (untraited and with the same prefix/socket armor warr already has more armor)

Are those correct? Then, why would ANYONE play thief? Warr has god tier life (vs bottom tier on thief), has more DPS, more party utility, and more life. You ALSO want even more armor and more burst?

I have never said i want warriors to be able to have more burst…

I personaly think (and many with me, i bet you included).. find 100 blade op.
besides that, i find it a crap skill, since you become stationary in a shifting moving surrounding… not very good planed skill. replace it with something usefull.

Do i want my heavy armor to actually be WORKING as a heavy armor. yes.

Do i want to see a fix to thieves op stealth and backstabs. yes.

Fenrir.5493:

In WOW you cant do that, NEVER, its not possible, rougues were the less populated class because they were very hard to play

Oh boy, Have you played wow..I mean at all? “Rouges” as you persist in calling them, have been infamous for globaling players since Vanilla. That’s not even debatable, if you didn’t, you were simply bad. I gave examples already earlier.

Now, you are saying “rouges” were the lesser populated class, well this is where you went from troll to full on r-kitten . Rogues have been up to 50% class population in pvp. Go look it up. But I’m guessing you were a wrath baby. You were the typical rogue that would play dual dps and get stuck at maybe 1800 rating.

ITT:bad players whine they can’t counter bad thieves.

Fenrir.5493:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jeeze! 4 Pages?

in GW2, Thieves will kill you fully armored or not.

Pretty much this, thieves are OP, thanx for your contribution.

Pretty much this. Stupidity beyond repair. “thanx for your contribution”

eldain stenlund.4306:

I have never said i want warriors to be able to have more burst…

But you say thieves burst is OP. Thieves have a marginally better burst than warr; it isnt really much higher.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Do i want my heavy armor to actually be WORKING as a heavy armor. yes.

Heavy armor gives +200 armor over medium. Thats 200 stat points, or 20/30 trait points. Its quite a bit! Also, those are “free”. Of course, if you go full berserk, any class with soldiers or knights gear is gonna have more armor than you. But thats because you CHOSE to go glass cannon.

Having a berserker warr with more armor than a knights thief would be stupid; think about it, why would ANYONE use anything thats not berserker then?

eldain stenlund.4306:

Do i want to see a fix to thieves op stealth and backstabs. yes.

Thieves backstab is not that OP. My glass cannon guardian can teleport into a group of (non skilled) non-bunker players and drop them all in the time a thief drops one.
I downed 3-4 persons in under 2 seconds more than once!
Just save yourselves, focus 5, sword 2, f1, weapon swap, gs 2 (4 if they dodge, then 5-5-3 ). Thats pretty much it, if anyones still standing just judge to him and finish.
Of course, this does not work against skilled players, but then again, BS spam doesnt either (i.e: thief vs guard… backstab is blocked by aegis, everyone dodges / blinds, if thief got caught by gs5 or doesnt run away hes instagibbed.

Wharrgarbl.9263:

eldain stenlund.4306:

I have never said i want warriors to be able to have more burst…

But you say thieves burst is OP. Thieves have a marginally better burst than warr; it isnt really much higher.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Do i want my heavy armor to actually be WORKING as a heavy armor. yes.

Heavy armor gives +200 armor over medium. Thats 200 stat points, or 20/30 trait points. Its quite a bit! Also, those are “free”. Of course, if you go full berserk, any class with soldiers or knights gear is gonna have more armor than you. But thats because you CHOSE to go glass cannon.

Having a berserker warr with more armor than a knights thief would be stupid; think about it, why would ANYONE use anything thats not berserker then?

eldain stenlund.4306:

Do i want to see a fix to thieves op stealth and backstabs. yes.

Thieves backstab is not that OP. My glass cannon guardian can teleport into a group of (non skilled) non-bunker players and drop them all in the time a thief drops one.
I downed 3-4 persons in under 2 seconds more than once!
Just save yourselves, focus 5, sword 2, f1, weapon swap, gs 2 (4 if they dodge, then 5-5-3 ). Thats pretty much it, if anyones still standing just judge to him and finish.
Of course, this does not work against skilled players, but then again, BS spam doesnt either (i.e: thief vs guard… backstab is blocked by aegis, everyone dodges / blinds, if thief got caught by gs5 or doesnt run away hes instagibbed.

the 100crap doing marginaly the same burst as a thief ??
umm it have a 40 second internal CD on frenzy.. and a nother 40 second CD to get the stun you need to actually hit anything.

And when you face a warrior using a GS, you know he is going to try it, because you can see him from the start.

This still doesnt justify 100crap skill to have the burst.

Its kinda much harder to see an invisible thief…

sorry.. my warrior doesnt have Aegis to autoblock the first stealth attack.
nor do i have protection, or much other boons either but might.

and about the armor… once again… doesnt matter if you call it zerker or knight…
metal is metal… leather is leather…
heavy is heavy… light is light…

GW2 is about singularity.
kill them faster than they can kill you.

and its a bad way to follow.

Well just quit this game, there’s plenty of better games than GW2 out there.. or not?
A-Net won’t ever change the game with the things you’re asking, never!!!
So do yourself a favour and stop playing this crappy, unbalanced, Perma stealth friendly, thief wars 2 and you will surely feel better…
and we won’t see any difference once you’re gone..

eldain stenlund.4306:

the 100crap doing marginaly the same burst as a thief ??
umm it have a 40 second internal CD on frenzy.. and a nother 40 second CD to get the stun you need to actually hit anything.

Then dont use GS? you should be using hammer and axe/xxx vs thief anyway.

eldain stenlund.4306:

And when you face a warrior using a GS, you know he is going to try it, because you can see him from the start.

I would say to that warrior… Weapon swich or go back to CoF p1
Maybe GS is not the weapon to use agains thieves? Think about it a bit!

eldain stenlund.4306:

This still doesnt justify 100crap skill to have the burst.

Just went 1 v 2 vs warr and bunker guard on my guardian. I downed the guard, got everything on CD, and you know what happened? Warr 2-hit me with axe!

eldain stenlund.4306:

Its kinda much harder to see an invisible thief…

Really, just count 1 and turn around. Thats will solve your problem!!!
Of course, if the thief is better than you, he will still kill you, but that applies to all classes.

eldain stenlund.4306:

sorry.. my warrior doesnt have Aegis to autoblock the first stealth attack.
nor do i have protection, or much other boons either but might.

Maybe warrs are UP? Try rolling a guardian, a ranger or a thief!!!

eldain stenlund.4306:

and about the armor… once again… doesnt matter if you call it zerker or knight…
metal is metal… leather is leather…
heavy is heavy… light is light…

Metal has +200 armor.
Leather is medium (not light).

But Knights has + toughness primary, thats +315 toughness; a leather wearing knights has more armor than a plate wearing berserk, because the plate wearer has 91 more power and 15% more critical damage.

So, thats 91 power and 15% critical damage vs 115 toughness. If we put them side by side, you get +15% critical damage and the thief gets +24 toughness… You win EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK!!!

eldain stenlund.4306:

GW2 is about singularity.
kill them faster than they can kill you.

and its a bad way to follow.

You think so? I think its fun! But to each its own i guess. Maybe try a bunker build? Perhaps another class?

I kill thieves easily when I play my warrior with a GS or axe. I have a level 80 thief though so I know how to play against them.