Guild Wars 2

Varonth.5830:

Daecollo.9578:

Varonth.5830:

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brutal_Strike should have a 1s block like http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Stab. Our attacks should also have 1s block attacked to them, so we block damage like ranger’s evade damage!

Also give us protection.

Èvery ranger greatsword #1 chain is significantly weaker than the warrior #1 chain.
Warrior also applies vulnurability.
You cannot just apply 1s of block at the end, but leave it just better than other, similar skills. That is not how balancing works.

On topic:
Healing Signet is fine as it is. Without healing power it heals for 392 HPS which is a bit more than the average heal skill.
All healskills are 300~340 HPS, especially those with pure heal value and nothing else.
Heal signets passive is highly affected by poison, reducing it’s heal to ~262 HPS which is below average.
On top of that, the active is so bad, that you should basically never use it. That takes out traits like Restorative Strength .

Rangers have pets so their damage should be weaker, vulnerability is weak. I wish they would just remove it from the set.
That trait is so bad it should be removed, and just added to our heals, like Hide in Shadows removes all bleeds/poison/fire automatically.

Healing Signet has less HP/S then other classes heals, its fine. Warriors need more sustain and a weapon revamp.

Please show us some healskills with a higher base HPS. You should include atleast 2 as you mentioned heals.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Blood_Fiend (beats it easy, can be traited to have even more hp/s)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions (can be depending on how many conditions you have.)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Malice (Depends on situation, but can be done.)

3 Examples.

Signet of Malice cannot outheal signet of healing for the complete duration.
It can, for 6s, by using unload or pistol whip, before you run out of initiative. After that, it is ~232 HPS.

Blood Fiend does not outheal Heal Signet.
Blood Fiend heals for 926 (without healing power).
It attacks every 3s (get a free trial of fraps if you don’t trust me, film it, and count frames).
So it heals 926 every 3s (if it doesn’t miss).
926/3 = ~308 HPS.

Consume Conditions can indeed outheal heal signet, but only if you use it with 7 or more conditions. With 6 conditions it will heal less than heal signet in the same time.

Varonth.5830:

Signet of Malice cannot outheal signet of healing for the complete duration.
It can, for 6s, by using unload or pistol whip, before you run out of initiative. After that, it is ~232 HPS.

Blood Fiend does not outheal Heal Signet.
Blood Fiend heals for 926 (without healing power).
It attacks every 3s (get a free trial of fraps if you don’t trust me, film it, and count frames).
So it heals 926 every 3s (if it doesn’t miss).
926/3 = ~308 HPS.

Consume Conditions can indeed outheal heal signet, but only if you use it with 7 or more conditions. With 6 conditions it will heal less than heal signet in the same time.

Blood Fiend attacks every 2 seconds. 463 HP/S.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blood_Fiend
The Blood Fiend attacks approximately every 2 seconds, healing its master for 926 health on each attack. Healing in this way is not affected by healing power
The Blood Fiend can be consumed by Taste of Death to gain 3,960 health and full (1.0) healing power bonus.
Source: In-game description

With 1420 Healing Power, Healing Signet heals the same HP/S as Blood Fiend, pretty unbalanced right?

Maybe we should bump healing signet to 463, and then add a trait to make it additionally heal for another 100 hp/s like Blood Fiend can.

Actually SoM can, Pistol Whip hitting 5 people 9 times.
That is 5850 every pistol whip, which can be used every .75 seconds.

Yeah, sorry, it is every 3s (that thing has 1s casttime to be exact).
Get fraps and show some prove that it does attack every 2s.

But it will be hard to prove it, as you cannot prove that it will heal you every 2s.
http://www.fraps.com/download.php

You fraps it at a certain speed, like 60 frames per second.
You will capture the blood fiend while it attacks a golem/monster/whatever.
Then you get some basic video editing software like virtual dub. You go find the frame when a damage number appears.
Since you frapsed at 60fps, the next damage number must appear 120 frames later, if it attacks every 2s.
You will then see, that the next number will appear 180 frames later, which is 180f / 60fps = 3s.

Edit:
And no, signet of malice cannot be used every 0.75s.
So, now I am going to play your nice card again. Please provide us with a screenshot with /age of your thief.
Please provide us with a screenshot with /age of your necro.

Varonth.5830:

Yeah, sorry, it is every 3s (that thing has 1s casttime to be exact).
Get fraps and show some prove that it does attack every 2s.

But it will be hard to prove it, as you cannot prove that it will heal you every 2s.
http://www.fraps.com/download.php

You fraps it at a certain speed, like 60 frames per second.
You will capture the blood fiend while it attacks a golem/monster/whatever.
Then you get some basic video editing software like virtual dub. You go find the frame when a damage number appears.
Since you frapsed at 60fps, the next damage number must appear 120 frames later, if it attacks every 2s.
You will then see, that the next number will appear 180 frames later, which is 180f / 60fps = 3s.

No, I actually play a necromancer, and you can precast it before a battle so it doesn’t matter. Now your just arguing with gas because you were proved wrong. Go back to the ranger forums.

You have NO MORE ARGUMENT if you had an argument on nerfing Blood Fiend, then I would have something to say, but since it heals for so much more you have none. GOOD day Sir!

Daecollo.9578:

Varonth.5830:

Yeah, sorry, it is every 3s (that thing has 1s casttime to be exact).
Get fraps and show some prove that it does attack every 2s.

But it will be hard to prove it, as you cannot prove that it will heal you every 2s.
http://www.fraps.com/download.php

You fraps it at a certain speed, like 60 frames per second.
You will capture the blood fiend while it attacks a golem/monster/whatever.
Then you get some basic video editing software like virtual dub. You go find the frame when a damage number appears.
Since you frapsed at 60fps, the next damage number must appear 120 frames later, if it attacks every 2s.
You will then see, that the next number will appear 180 frames later, which is 180f / 60fps = 3s.

No, I actually play a necromancer, and you can precast it before a battle so it doesn’t matter. Now your just arguing with gas because you were proved wrong. Go back to the ranger forums.

You have NO MORE ARGUMENT if you had an argument on nerfing Blood Fiend, then I would have something to say, but since it heals for so much more you have none. GOOD day Sir!

No you were proven wrong.
Now you throw in words like precasting, which don’t change anything.

Please show some prove how your blood fiend attacks every 2 seconds.
Shows us a video using fraps.
You know, you said, Blood Fiend heals for more. You showed no prove.

You can make it easy.
For instance you jump down in front of the golems taking 10000 damage. Then you let your blood fiend heal you up.
With 926 heal per attack, it will take 10000/926 = 11 attacks.
If it attacks every 2s you should be at full health after 22s.
If it attacks every 3s you should be at full health after 33s.

Also, at the other posters in this thread:
Who do you believe is right?
Me or Deacollo?

LOL imo this OP is a troll, As a guardian myself (my only character is the guardian) i run a regen tanky build with semi decent damage. I play war of attrition style out tank my opponents it’s always served me best.

When im randomy dueling i make a habit of dueling other classes with tanky builds. I can honestly tell you my guardian still has the upper hand against tanky warriors, they don’t really have good burst healing nor do they have the great defensive skills like guardian..ofc it makes sense for their passive regen to be strong. It’s the only decent source of healing they get. Now if you want to know whats op healing…LOOK to the ranger troll healing signet…thats op.

I feel sorry all this warrior hate..aside from that mace stun build hate they’re also getting hate for their healing signet. LOL…

All i will say is..there is always a counter build. If you can’t beat a class running a particular build try make one that does. Stop being lazy and moaning on the forums.

Actually i like to fight warriors with healing signet, they have no burst healing and when they get into trouble its priceless to see how much they freak out, and they are so easy to kill because of that.

Unless minions got an attack speed buff in the last few months, the interval on Blood Fiend’s attack is a hair over 3 seconds. 192 frames between heals at 60fps – this isn’t difficult information to find/generate.

Healing signet, with 0 healing power, grants 392 HP/s
Blood Fiend, which is unaffected by healing power, grants 289.4 HP/s

Other Heals: (all with 0 healing power, spammed on recharge, to compare to warrior’s PASSIVE heal.)

Ranger

Heal As One: 326 HP/s
Healing Spring: 164 HP/s
Troll Unguent: 342 HP/s

Guardian

Healing Breeze: 163 HP/s
Shelter: 151.8 HP/s
Signet of Resolve: 203.75 HP/s (traited for shortened recharge: 254 HP/s)

Elementalist

Ether Renewal: 333.33 HP/s
Glyph of Elemental Harmony: 195 HP/s (traited for recharge: 244 HP/s)
Signet of Restoration: 131 HP/s (traited for recharge: 163 HP/s)

I can’t be bothered doing it for the rest of the professions – suffice to say, the passive healing off of healsig is the second best passive heal in the entire game (only outdone by an Altruistic Healing guardian in a full party). In fact, the passive is more powerful than most professions ACTIVE heal. (only counting healing skills – if you include heal on dodge roll/attunement/critical/what have you, the numbers get complex, but healing signet’s passive is still strong even compared to these.)

EDIT: this is only regarding passive heals – the burst heal is kind of lame, but that’s not what was being argued about when I started to do the math on these. Matter of fact, it’s honestly not worth using the active on healing signet, in terms of heals per second – it only makes sense if the ~3300 HP is going to be the difference between victory or death.

I’m all for nerfing Healing Signet, as long as they then nerf the next best heal and then the next and the next.
Is it so horrible that a Warrior gets a skill that’s better (arguable) than others?

I have no issue with Healing Signet, myself. Just thought people would like accurate numbers up for comparison sake. Most especially to offset Daecollo, since he’s about the worst person on the forums for spouting nonsense.

Personally, I’d like to see the active heal for something in the ~5000 range, and keep the passive where it is now. (I’d like to see the same kind of buff for Signet of Restoration as well – roughly 4000 activated, 350hp for passive effect)

stale.9785:

I have no issue with Healing Signet, myself. Just thought people would like accurate numbers up for comparison sake. Most especially to offset Daecollo, since he’s about the worst person on the forums for spouting nonsense.

Personally, I’d like to see the active heal for something in the ~5000 range, and keep the passive where it is now. (I’d like to see the same kind of buff for Signet of Restoration as well – roughly 4000 activated, 350hp for passive effect)

The problem with that is, an elementalist can use up to seven spells at once. Procing it more then 7 times a second, wheras healing signet is only once a second. If it had an internal cool-down of 1 second however that would be fine.

People should really stop comparing single skills and utilities. You cannot say something is OP without counting everything into the equation.

Comparing Healing Signet with Thief Heals and ignoring stealth is ridiculous. Heal 6 is just one out of many skills to mitigate damage. Others are Protection, Regen, Aegis, Blind, Block, Stealth, Teleports, Evade, Dodge, …

Some professions have access to plenty of those other damage mitigating abilities, warriors don’t. Warriors are meant to eat all that damage, but the past has shown that just high armor and life isn’t enough. So logically Anet make warrior heals stronger.

Healing Signet is strong against steady average damage, but its weak against spike damage and with Poison it got a hard counter. Get used to it.

TLDR: As said above, healing signet is VERY strong against steady average damage (it completely negates it). This is supposed to be GUILD WARS (not build wars), meaning any spec when played well should be able to beat any other (or a balanced spec should stand a chance against everything)

I have been playing as and against warriors lately, and my problem with healing signet is that it is a great heal regardless of healing power. This is a problem, b/c it means that a warrior can run Berserker’s and instantly cleanse off any damage that it done to it, passively unless he is fighting a profession that is glass-cannon. It provides way too much sustain (combined with the inherently higher armor, and dolyak signet, which is take as it is a stun-break as well) regardless of the spec. It should be worse to start, and scale up higher with healing power if they want sustain. As it is now, balanced builds just can’t even scratch warrior (I landed ele Dragon tooth + phoenix, then air burst with a solider’s ele, and it was all wiped away a few seconds later).

This may not be a problem in pvp where big teamfights happen and warrior is subject to aoe’s (like every melee profession), but it is a HUGE problem in WvW.

This signet requires poison to counter. REQUIRES poison. Meaning that most classes can’t hope to keep up with such a warrior, as they don’t have easy access.

BlackBeard.2873:

I have been playing as and against warriors lately, and my problem with healing signet is that it is a great heal regardless of healing power. This is a problem, b/c it means that a warrior can run Berserker’s and instantly cleanse off any damage that it done to it, passively unless he is fighting a profession that is glass-cannon. It provides way too much sustain (combined with the inherently higher armor, and dolyak signet, which is take as it is a stun-break as well) regardless of the spec. It should be worse to start, and scale up higher with healing power if they want sustain. As it is now, balanced builds just can’t even scratch warrior (I landed ele Dragon tooth + phoenix, then air burst with a solider’s ele, and it was all wiped away a few seconds later).

This may not be a problem in pvp where big teamfights happen and warrior is subject to aoe’s (like every melee profession), but it is a HUGE problem in WvW.

This signet requires poison to counter. REQUIRES poison. Meaning that most classes can’t hope to keep up with such a warrior, as they don’t have easy access.

Lies, if you are a bunker how do you expect to damage anyone?, i can kill with ease any warrior with healing signet, and its impossible to a warrior to outheal you unless you are doing the worst dps EVER, they dont have protection, and 400 eaxh second its a joke if you cand do 2000 damage each second, if the warrior its outhealing you it means you are doing a really crap damage.

I dont use healing signet because its crap against the condi meta and burst damage, you are not getting anything of healing signet passive if you dont have other healing abilities like regen banner and a lot of adrenal health with healing power or shouts, healing signet alone its really patethic, and get all of other healing complements means that you are going to do really crap damage, and you cant bunker with no protection either so, going full regen sucks so hard that i dont even have words to say how much it sucks.

Its ok if Blood Fiend heals for 71 more hp/s and to get that the warrior needs 1420 healing power. However its not ok for Warrior to have a much weaker heal, makes sense to me.

Daecollo.9578:

stale.9785:

I have no issue with Healing Signet, myself. Just thought people would like accurate numbers up for comparison sake. Most especially to offset Daecollo, since he’s about the worst person on the forums for spouting nonsense.

Personally, I’d like to see the active heal for something in the ~5000 range, and keep the passive where it is now. (I’d like to see the same kind of buff for Signet of Restoration as well – roughly 4000 activated, 350hp for passive effect)

The problem with that is, an elementalist can use up to seven spells at once. Procing it more then 7 times a second, wheras healing signet is only once a second. If it had an internal cool-down of 1 second however that would be fine.

This is a first – I mostly agree with you. Only mostly, because you overlooked how the passive works – on cast. The heal happens when a skill starts – not when it’s queued.

Having said that, I have no real issue with an ICD on it, since the signet can’t proc faster than the skills do, which gives a hard limit of 5 triggers in a second, if the build allows for it. More likely, you’ll be hitting it every .75-3s (for an average of once every 1.8 seconds) so an ICD wouldn’t be a change that anyone would notice.

Daecollo.9578:

Its ok if Blood Fiend heals for 71 more hp/s and to get that the warrior needs 1420 healing power. However its not ok for Warrior to have a much weaker heal, makes sense to me.

Reading comprehension failure dude. Healing Signet heals for 103 more HP/s than Blood Fiend can, if you’re only counting passives. Not 71 less. I even did the math for you, a few posts further up. The only place Blood Fiend comes out ahead is in it’s active heal, which is 660HP more, on the same cooldown.

If you use both skills as soon as they recharge, then Healing Signet = 165 HP/s on active, Blood Fiend = 198 HP/s. Which actually puts Healing Signet’s active as somewhat better than Signet of Restoration, though lackluster in comparison to some others.

stale.9785:

Daecollo.9578:

Its ok if Blood Fiend heals for 71 more hp/s and to get that the warrior needs 1420 healing power. However its not ok for Warrior to have a much weaker heal, makes sense to me.

Reading comprehension failure dude. Healing Signet heals for 103 more HP/s than Blood Fiend can, if you’re only counting passives. Not 71 less. I even did the math for you, a few posts further up. The only place Blood Fiend comes out ahead is in it’s active heal, which is 660HP more, on the same cooldown.

If you use both skills as soon as they recharge, then Healing Signet = 165 HP/s on active, Blood Fiend = 198 HP/s. Which actually puts Healing Signet’s active as somewhat better than Signet of Restoration, though lackluster in comparison to some others.

The Blood Fiend attacks approximately every 2 seconds, healing its master for 926 health on each attack. Healing in this way is not affected by healing power
The Blood Fiend can be consumed by Taste of Death to gain 3,960 health and full (1.0) healing power bonus.

Can you do basic math? 926 / 2 = 463, that is 71 more then Healing Signet, to get that much healing you need approximately 1420 healing power.

Lets add traits now, Vampiric Master + Blood Thirst, this makes Blood Fiend heal for up to 114 more, bringing it to 1040, 1040 / 2 = 520 hp/s, that is 128 more healing then Healing Signet, which means you need 2560 Healing Power to equal that heal amount.

I don’t know where you got that imaginary number at, but please take your confusion away from the forums, I only deal with facts.

Daecollo – the blood fiend attacks every 3.2 seconds – this is from fraps – the wiki is wrong. The tooltip, like more than half the tooltips in game, is wrong. I didn’t count traits for ANY of the heals I listed, because that wouldn’t be a baseline test.

I got the 3.2 seconds by recording 2 minutes, that’s 120 seconds, with FRAPS at 60 FPS and then counting the FPS between the heal proc.

At base, with 0 healing power, Healing Signet returns 103 more HP than Blood Fiend.

The above are all facts, dude. And I’m done feeding the troll.

Fenrir.5493:

Lies, if you are a bunker how do you expect to damage anyone?, i can kill with ease any warrior with healing signet, and its impossible to a warrior to outheal you unless you are doing the worst dps EVER, they dont have protection, and 400 eaxh second its a joke if you cand do 2000 damage each second, if the warrior its outhealing you it means you are doing a really crap damage..

Ele damage isn’t the highest, but the signet allowed my warrior to even tank against a burst thief for quite a while, especially with adrenal health (which you would have by going for cleansing ire anyway). And I am not a very good warrior at the moment.

I am not lying, about the damage that I put out on my ele, and my build was not exactly bunker (fresh air, with 30 in air for 300 precision/30% crit dmg, and berserker’s jewel). Landing a dragon’s tooth, (as hard as landing 75% of 100 blades) + phoenix and the air burst took the health down to about 85%, and it was back up shortly (this build must have had a lot of toughness). My auto-attack on scepter actually damaged less than the signet healed. It is silly to me that this is the case, ever that my relatively balanced build could have burst him all day and he could have done just nothing and survived for a very long time.

I am not saying that warrior’s shouldn’t be allowed to heal/sustain. I really think they need help surviving in team situations. Just saying that the current state of the signet is not possible to be defeated in the right build by some classes. You should only be out-healing other classes damage if you are mitigating incoming damage (blocks, evades), not just shrugging it off.

Please don’t get overly defensive, I am not attacking you. I am simply saying this skill is unbalanced right now as the devs try to figure out the best way to give warriors sustain. My solution: a trait to get protection for limited periods when landing burst deep into the defensive tree. This would make bunkers slightly better without throwing around such boons.

Daecollo.9578:

Also give us more access to weakness.

Fixed that for you.

nicknamenick.2437:

Well change your build i would say?? i have been changing my warrior build soooo many times now just to be able to kill some. and you know what? there is still none warrior build that can defeat them all (well playing) but i dont think it should be! there are always builds counter another build.
there are some classes running the same builds and having a real hard time now against warriors (healing signet is part of it) deal with it!! or adept..
After a year I still cant kill good mesmers!! i aint complaining about them because lol they may be good in 1vs1 but are not that good teamfight.

There are always counter builds..

See, that is the key point I disagree with. This is GUILD WARS, not BUILD WARS. A balanced spec should have a chance against any spec if they play better. Sure, some builds will have a strong advantage, or require you to change up utilities, and that is fine. However, saying: “well just be full-on berzerker so you can slowly wear me down, or otherwise be an engineer” means there is a fundamental issue with the balance. If it is tied to one skill, then it is an issue.

To put it another way: sure phantasm mesmer is very strong 1v1, but if you took the right utilities or played well you could beat one. The analog of this situation would be if the phantasm mesmer was almost 100% immune to your damage passively. There is NO counterplay.

Skill should allow a player to overcome disadvantages in matchups.

Well, it depends on the class. Warriors’ chances against phantasms mesmers used to be near 0.

But balanced build doesn’t mean effective. I used to play a lot with my engi before it became meta, and used many build which I tought were decent, but actually turned out to be crap.

This game has (at least in theory) a large freedom of choice on builds compared to other games (Wow, for example). This means you can make a strong build, but also a very weak one.

And warriors can’t outheal you, unless they are putting a lot of pressure on you. Then any class can do that.

I play both ele and warrior. Even the lowest damage skill of my dd ele (water 1) does more damage per second than healing signets hps, and thats without even counting crits.

Its quite easy to burst through the healing of healing signet + adrenale health.

But… most eles pull back from fight to heal up when their health goes down to < 50% by either RTL or LF away. That tactic doesnt work anymore against warriors with healing signet because they regenerate in that time as well.

Hit and run doesnt work anymore. You have to do constant damage against the warrior. True story, bro!

I just tested soldier rune on my ranger with gs s/d. Plenty of REQUIRED poison from s/d. Still not enough, blackbeard is completly right about balanced builds not being able to do enough dmg to mitigate the heal. I could not even take this war down to 75% but slowly and surely his bow and sword wittled me down even though I am running MASSIVE cond removal through, healing spring, emphatic bond, signet of renewel, and soldier runes with 2 shouts(guard and protect me). My only option is to revert back to zerker and this puts me at more disadvantage as I am paper with no toughness and low hp. Even the Zerker rune is not enough as I must run moment of clarity(GM trait) and MUST get INTERRUPTS through hilt bash(25 sec cd..) into maul. Do you have any idea how unbelievably hard that is when my only trump card is to interrupt you and try to win the fight early? Honestly the problem may not be HS but the fact that ranger gs is just a gimmick, a silly thing made only for escaping and running away. Today I also tried a spirit cond ranger with shamans ammy and s/t a/d. Facerolled everyone I came across, even phant mes. Lost to a necro but still, it was pretty OP and boring. Theres simply no balance between power and cond for the ranger, the fact that rangers do less atk dmg then every other class is just makes for one sided playstyles. So yeah whatever, keep your clearly strong signet. buff power ranger, make gs viable and not some bs escape weapon.
ps. I originally posted this in spvp forum dunno why a GM moved it here, not trying to troll.

Healing signet is pretty powerfull yes, there’s no point in denying that, but even asking for a nerf before taking a good look at classes like Necro, Engi and Rangers is quite hilarious to be honest.

Bring those in line first, and then we can talk about Healing Signet being too much or not.

If I could fix this game heres what Id do
Raise theif and mes toughness and hp, reduce SR to 3 seconds(No stealth should be longer then 3 seconds when there is no counter to it in this game) Nerf Phantasm dmg, duelist should do way less dmg for sure.
Nerf MM necro a lil bit
Nerf Cond Spirit Ranger
Buff Guardian
Buff power ranger
Nerf Healing Signet by 50 hp or lower it and make it scale better with healing power
Replace thieves guild and engis crate with something that isnt BS.

BlackBeard.2873:

nicknamenick.2437:

Well change your build i would say?? i have been changing my warrior build soooo many times now just to be able to kill some. and you know what? there is still none warrior build that can defeat them all (well playing) but i dont think it should be! there are always builds counter another build.
there are some classes running the same builds and having a real hard time now against warriors (healing signet is part of it) deal with it!! or adept..
After a year I still cant kill good mesmers!! i aint complaining about them because lol they may be good in 1vs1 but are not that good teamfight.

There are always counter builds..

See, that is the key point I disagree with. This is GUILD WARS, not BUILD WARS. A balanced spec should have a chance against any spec if they play better. Sure, some builds will have a strong advantage, or require you to change up utilities, and that is fine. However, saying: “well just be full-on berzerker so you can slowly wear me down, or otherwise be an engineer” means there is a fundamental issue with the balance. If it is tied to one skill, then it is an issue.

To put it another way: sure phantasm mesmer is very strong 1v1, but if you took the right utilities or played well you could beat one. The analog of this situation would be if the phantasm mesmer was almost 100% immune to your damage passively. There is NO counterplay.

Skill should allow a player to overcome disadvantages in matchups.

Guild Wars 1 was all about building against the meta. You shouldn’t expect to be able to build once and have it be the master of all builds.

nicknamenick.2437:

OMG!!! another post about the healing signet!! pff

---

Healing signet = healing slot!!!
Signet of the Wild = Utility slot!!!! (omg why even bring this versus healing signet??!!?)

Yes 392 health per second.. we aint got protection or regen spam.. blind spam.. you name it..
But if you activate it for 3300 heal on 20 sec cd YOU DONT get the passive healing.
so only 3300 health every 20sec is just crap!
So you will never activate the signet (maby only when very low on health)

Thank you for clearing this up. I don’t have a ranger so I’m not at all familiar with anything they have. I was reading the OPs post and actually felt quite “sorry” for him when I read it, assuming Signet Of Wild was a healing skill that had a passive or something.

I’m so glad you posted the above, now I can just completely ignore the rest of this thread. It gets on my phukin nerves that GUARDIANS complain about our Healing Signet being too strong compared to their virtue of resolve. It makes you kinda think "errrrrr hold on, virtue of resolve, one of the guardians THREE profession skills. Aside from the massive heal they get from the signet and the 5 billion traits that grant healing

heal when you put a boon on an ally
heal when you auto attack with a mace (regen)
heal when you use a greatsword
heal when you dodge roll
heal when you fart (2 second cooldown)
(the consumable pizza produces 5 farts per second which procs the “heal when you fart” trait.

So now I’ve learnt that this thread is the same, I’m glad I can leave it in peace, thanks.

skillionaire.3574:

LOL imo this OP is a troll, As a guardian myself (my only character is the guardian) i run a regen tanky build with semi decent damage. I play war of attrition style out tank my opponents it’s always served me best.

When im randomy dueling i make a habit of dueling other classes with tanky builds. I can honestly tell you my guardian still has the upper hand against tanky warriors, they don’t really have good burst healing nor do they have the great defensive skills like guardian..ofc it makes sense for their passive regen to be strong. It’s the only decent source of healing they get. Now if you want to know whats op healing…LOOK to the ranger troll healing signet…thats op.

I feel sorry all this warrior hate..aside from that mace stun build hate they’re also getting hate for their healing signet. LOL…

All i will say is..there is always a counter build. If you can’t beat a class running a particular build try make one that does. Stop being lazy and moaning on the forums.

Quoted for truth

BlackBeard.2873:

Fenrir.5493:

Lies, if you are a bunker how do you expect to damage anyone?, i can kill with ease any warrior with healing signet, and its impossible to a warrior to outheal you unless you are doing the worst dps EVER, they dont have protection, and 400 eaxh second its a joke if you cand do 2000 damage each second, if the warrior its outhealing you it means you are doing a really crap damage..

Ele damage isn’t the highest, but the signet allowed my warrior to even tank against a burst thief for quite a while

I stoped there… LIES, i have played with a high regen and shout build warrior and a single backstab from a thief was needed to put me on 20% health, then he did another move, heart seeker i suppouse and i was downed, even with the minor burst heal of shouts and the passive regen i couldnt stand a burst like that, and you are not suppoused to if you dont have protection.

skillionaire.3574:

LOL imo this OP is a troll, As a guardian myself (my only character is the guardian) i run a regen tanky build with semi decent damage. I play war of attrition style out tank my opponents it’s always served me best.

When im randomy dueling i make a habit of dueling other classes with tanky builds. I can honestly tell you my guardian still has the upper hand against tanky warriors, they don’t really have good burst healing nor do they have the great defensive skills like guardian..ofc it makes sense for their passive regen to be strong. It’s the only decent source of healing they get. Now if you want to know whats op healing…LOOK to the ranger troll healing signet…thats op.

I feel sorry all this warrior hate..aside from that mace stun build hate they’re also getting hate for their healing signet. LOL…

All i will say is..there is always a counter build. If you can’t beat a class running a particular build try make one that does. Stop being lazy and moaning on the forums.

You mean people with a mindset like this actually exist?! Faith have been restored in humanity.

What warrior is running healing power over damage anyhow?

If we’re talking about sPvP, why would you run Healing Signet instead of Mending? Even then, why would you run healing power on top of that?

This seems silly.

The biggest problem for warrior was unsustainable. This gives a relief, and you want to nerf it? Who the hell run around with tactic banner to kill things? Theory crafting at the “finest.”

They want to nerf it because they want “an easy kill”. The start of balance means their inability to play well is put on display and that clearly makes people very uncomfortable, rofl

Honestly, i still putting down warriors very easily. Healing signet haven’t changed nothing in sustain.
- No reason to cry.

Oh I agree. That’s why I say “start of balance”. We need more than just some tweaks to our heals.

I’m not sure if this is confirmed though but mobs do percent damage in attacks which is why alot say vitality builds don’t work. I think this is proven in fractals where a theif only takes 2k per hit but myself as a war takes 10k per hit from ice elemental. So warriors with higher health pools take more damage then other players. There for their passive healing needs to be higher to heal the higher damage they take. It is hard to directly compare different classes unless you use a standard scale to re-reference them onto which is Basic statistics(can compare a math and science exam for example other wise).

Is this a valid argument for the way they assigned passive healing values?

Sil.4560:

Oh I agree. That’s why I say “start of balance”. We need more than just some tweaks to our heals.

We need better traits and more traits that sustain like other classes do so they don’t focus so much on one thing. Rangers, Guardians and Thieves have amazing sustain traits that work with their class mechanics and their boons.

Warrior just feels like either the first or the last class they made, it just feels unfinished.

Other classes minor traits are better then our grandmaster traits.

Our weapon skills also don’t have the evasion/condition cure/healing/protective boons added right into the weapon skills like the other classes have… just feels so unfinished.

All classes should have the same HP pool and be balanced accordingly, it just leaves to this stagnation problem. there is no reason vitality should be a better stat for one class over another.

No daecollo after huge complaints about the BM ranger we lost “gain quickness on pet swap” and recieved the kittentiest MANDATORY trait in the game “your pet gains quickness for 5 sec when you are down” We cant pick up anything in the BM line without first picking up this crap. Many ppl including me have abandoned the BM line completely. I have yet to see any other class have to take such an unneeded/useless trait for their class mechanic.

BlackBeard.2873:

TLDR: As said above, healing signet is VERY strong against steady average damage (it completely negates it). This is supposed to be GUILD WARS (not build wars), meaning any spec when played well should be able to beat any other (or a balanced spec should stand a chance against everything)

I have been playing as and against warriors lately, and my problem with healing signet is that it is a great heal regardless of healing power. This is a problem, b/c it means that a warrior can run Berserker’s and instantly cleanse off any damage that it done to it, passively unless he is fighting a profession that is glass-cannon. It provides way too much sustain (combined with the inherently higher armor, and dolyak signet, which is take as it is a stun-break as well) regardless of the spec. It should be worse to start, and scale up higher with healing power if they want sustain. As it is now, balanced builds just can’t even scratch warrior (I landed ele Dragon tooth + phoenix, then air burst with a solider’s ele, and it was all wiped away a few seconds later).

This may not be a problem in pvp where big teamfights happen and warrior is subject to aoe’s (like every melee profession), but it is a HUGE problem in WvW.

This signet requires poison to counter. REQUIRES poison. Meaning that most classes can’t hope to keep up with such a warrior, as they don’t have easy access.

You are wrong. If I can kill a healing signet warrior with a tank build, you can do it too. I have 0 access to poison.

Sami.7923:

No daecollo after huge complaints about the BM ranger we lost “gain quickness on pet swap” and recieved the kittentiest MANDATORY trait in the game “your pet gains quickness for 5 sec when you are down” We cant pick up anything in the BM line without first picking up this crap. Many ppl including me have abandoned the BM line completely. I have yet to see any other class have to take such an unneeded/useless trait for their class mechanic.

Except, BM still works and they are still probably one of the most popular class/builds in duel games. In group PvP they are less played only because spirit ranger outshines them.

Lol warriors are no longer easy kills so now every one is freaken out.

To clarify so that people stop just throwing around posts like “lies, you don’t know anything”:

The problem is the amount of sustain that healing signet gives, which is rediculous and trivializes the matchup vs. many specs/classes. Warrior’s need this healing right now b/c their other methods of active sustain haven’t cut it and the warrior could just be methodically kited. Buffing the signet to this level is a band-aid but fixes the problem in the wrong way. Instead, the warrior should be given:

-A 1-handed weapon for medium range (throwing knives maybe), so that warhorn could be used to give sustain through vigor without giving up completely on range. (easy to get perma-vigor with warhorn trait).
-More leaps so that warrior can stick on top of a target better, or slightly longer range skills so that kiting isn’t easy. This applies especially to pvp, as wvw has a spec that is 98% immune to control effects and has no problem sticking or running.

But the absurd passive healing, combined with the high armor (if you build knights), is unbeatable without poison. It also makes zerker warriors able to take damage for longer than any other zerker, with sustain coming by forcing defensive play all while passively healing for a ton. Its a problem that is inherently passive.

Nobody wants warrior’s to be an easy kill. I want every class to have a shot versus every class. I understand that GW1 was very much about build, but GW1 didn’t have wvw and its play-speed was a lot slower. You can’t build vs. a meta when you will come across everything in GW2 wvw.

BlackBeard.2873:

To clarify so that people stop just throwing around posts like “lies, you don’t know anything”:

The problem is the amount of sustain that healing signet gives, which is rediculous and trivializes the matchup vs. many specs/classes. Warrior’s need this healing right now b/c their other methods of active sustain haven’t cut it and the warrior could just be methodically kited. Buffing the signet to this level is a band-aid but fixes the problem in the wrong way. Instead, the warrior should be given:

-A 1-handed weapon for medium range (throwing knives maybe), so that warhorn could be used to give sustain through vigor without giving up completely on range. (easy to get perma-vigor with warhorn trait).
-More leaps so that warrior can stick on top of a target better, or slightly longer range skills so that kiting isn’t easy. This applies especially to pvp, as wvw has a spec that is 98% immune to control effects and has no problem sticking or running.

But the absurd passive healing, combined with the high armor (if you build knights), is unbeatable without poison. It also makes zerker warriors able to take damage for longer than any other zerker, with sustain coming by forcing defensive play all while passively healing for a ton. Its a problem that is inherently passive.

Nobody wants warrior’s to be an easy kill. I want every class to have a shot versus every class. I understand that GW1 was very much about build, but GW1 didn’t have wvw and its play-speed was a lot slower. You can’t build vs. a meta when you will come across everything in GW2 wvw.

Do you watch the SotGs and listen to what devs say about warriors and balance in general? What they’ve done so far is pretty much on par with what they announced as their goal, “Warriors should be able to stay in the pocket.” And, “We test for so long because we don’t like to give players things then take them away.” This isn’t a band-aid fix. This was their big step in the direction of sustain for a relatively pathetic class. A heal fix was in the patch notes pre-July but got pulled at the last second and commented on as needing further testing.

The HPS relationships between each warrior heal are also very specific. There is only a 70 HPS gap between base Healing Surge, and Healing Signet, and Mending and Healing Surge, when accounting for multiple uses at min and max adrenaline levels, produce the same amount of healing to within less than one tenth of a percent. These changes were very well thought out. Any change to one will arguably necessitate a change to the others; otherwise you’ll have a bunch of warriors running around with Healing Surge being less susceptible to burst, able to heal around poison, and still sporting over 80% of the raw healing of the current Healing Signet. You are fighting a community of players that has spent the last 11 months learning how to compete with heals as low as 200 HPS… Is it really that surprising that many of us are exceptionally good at staying on our feet?

Even if they change the heals up a little, it won’t be by much, and these players that are coming here not looking to improve their play will continue to get beat down by good warriors.

And the matchups are far from trivialized. I’ve yet to have any class in my guild complain over vent that the new warrior is beyond beatable; nor do our non-signet warriors struggle against signet warriors. If a non-signet warrior with zero access to poison can take down a signet warrior, so can any other class. It may require some build adjustments, but this is an RPG. That is the nature of the beast in this genre. Not even FPS’s are devoid of “the right tool for the job”. I don’t understand how you can claim things should be any different in GW2. If that was what the devs wanted, there wouldn’t be bunkers, roamers, assaulters and so on… not even mentioning these roles have a limited number of classes that fill them best and that “hard” counter builds exist or are created to keep the meta honest. This is very much Build Wars 2, and it is by design. They may not have marketed the game that way, but that is the reality of the product and it is reflected in their balancing decisions.

Ya pretty much what vertas said, weve had to learn to play before with bad healing so now our healing is a little bit better we are better at using what we got and not over extending.

If they nerf it, i will be know that devs listeling to few cry babies on forum and i will quit.
Healing signet is far from being op in current state, and i didnt noticed anyone complaining about it behind few guys. Check, if signet is “soo op” why load of ppl still running surge?

Fenrir.5493:

Avead.5760:

Fenrir.5493:

I will trade this for protection anytime.

No you wont..you wont because you can get protection from teammates and become truly unkillable.
Btw why is resto signet weaker (and heavily nered) for ele??Last time i checked d/d elementalist needs to be in close range as well and i dont see anywhere a berserkers stance..You know using your heals requires having control of your character..a d/d elementalist will probably end up stun locked or feared with almost half warriors health less armor and active defences that cant match up of the new toys warrior got..and protection wont mean a thing when you die to bleeding and burning
(offtopic but i wanted to get it out of my system :P )

So you are an elementalist having healing problems?… i think i have seen everything right now.

And i will trade healing signet for protection… I WILL.

Saying an ele always has amazing healing is like saying a war always has amazing dps. You most likely main-ing a war, should know, that you need to run zerker/ dps traitlines to do good damage, just as an ele HAS to run clerics/bunker traitlines.

Sami.7923:

No daecollo after huge complaints about the BM ranger we lost “gain quickness on pet swap” and recieved the kittentiest MANDATORY trait in the game “your pet gains quickness for 5 sec when you are down” We cant pick up anything in the BM line without first picking up this crap. Many ppl including me have abandoned the BM line completely. I have yet to see any other class have to take such an unneeded/useless trait for their class mechanic.

You should probably check the warrior minor traits in tactics before stating something like having the worst minor trait in the game, our grand-master minor trait is 1 stack of might upon reviving someone…